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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- If you’re a working parent of an infant with low sleep needs, how do you function at work when you’re in the throes of baby’s sleep regression?
- Should I cut my childcare down to 12 hours a month if I work from home?
- Will my baby have speech delays if we raise her bilingual?
- Has anyone given birth in a teaching hospital?
- My child eats everything, and my friends’ kids do not – how should I handle? In general, what is the best way to handle when your child has some skill/ability and your friend’s child doesn’t have that skill/ability?
- ADHD moms, give me your tips to help with things like behavior in the classroom, attention to detail, etc?
- I think I suffer from mom rage…
- My husband and kids are gone this weekend – how should I enjoy my free time?
- I’m struggling to be compassionate with a SAHM friend who complains she doesn’t have enough hours of childcare.
- If you exclusively formula fed, what tips do you have for in the hospital and coming home?
- Could I take my 4-yo and 8-yo on a 7-8 day trip to Paris, Lyon, and Madrid?
mrs kbp says
With the Holidays coming up, how do I *NICELY* suggest to my SIL without sounding grinchy to not buy toys for her 3 (aged 9, 7, and 5) nieces and she doesn’t buy for my 2 sons? These 5 children have everything they could possibly need. They have many sets of grandparents buying gifts for them too. We both have to travel back to our respective states after the Holidays, so packing space is at a premium. I tried move fun stocking stuffers last year like movie tickets. I am trying to get away from gifts just to give something and never have it used again! Thanks!
Anon grinch says
I don’t know but we have the same problem. Last year I won the battle for “gifts for kids only” because we are always traveling there and value experience and hate clutter and my siblings … are the opposite. Literally the day after Halloween I got an email asking what my kids want … and so it begins. Last year I simply amazoned gifts to their house and asked them not to open till we got there. I bought a few higher value gifts vs lots of crap. I’m sure they grumbled behind my back about “not enough to open” but I’m doing me.
Anonymous says
What is so hard about buying them fun books and moving on? When did it become collectively okay to be this uptight and controlling about gifts? They’re children, give hers something small and easy to pack and stop fretting.
Anon says
When we became an instant gratification culture with endless resources to spend. At least in my family, with multiple rounds of divorce (aka lots of loving aunts/uncles and grandparents) kids are bathed in gifts every month.
Growing up, only for the holidays I got a handful of toys from just two sets of grandparents and maybe a token small gift from aunts/uncles. Maybe one gift for my birthday. Nothing like today where my kids have four sets of grandparents, several aunts/uncles with no kids of their own (so lots to spend on nieces/nephews), and receive presents for christmas, easter, last day of school, birthday, 4th of july, random tuesday, special cousin trip to the zoo, halloween, valentines day, thanksgiving, christmas. And each time, everyone wants to get something “special” so we have millions of personalized items, big ticket items, stacks of books, closets full of clothes, and all the bikes/scooters/rideons/powerwheels each kid could want.
I don’t think this is unique to my family, as many friends I know from different backgrounds have similarly stuffed living rooms and bedrooms and basements and garages. We are drowning in STUFF because shopping is such an addiction and kids are an excuse. We do what we can to donate and buy for lower income families, but it’s still overwhelming. It’s not a surprise that many parents are trying to curb this avalanche of stuff at one of the busiest times of gift-giving.
Anonymous says
+1 million on the exponential growth of holidays. Halloween used to be one costume and candy. Now it’s pjs, socks, tshirts, plastic glasses (next door neigbors gave out), multiple costumes.
Anonymous says
Ugh sorry I know I’m being grouchy about this, I just feel like the whole holiday on here becomes about the burden of having a loving and generous family and it makes me really sad!
So Anon says
I think we all want to embrace the love and generosity of our families. However, I know that I struggle when the accepted way to express that love and generosity is through the purchase of toys that my children do not need. I am trying mightily to teach my children the values of simplicity, not purchasing just to purchase, the value of money, etc., and I want to celebrate the holidays in line with our values.
Anonymous says
And your relatives also want to celebrate the holidays in line with their own values. Why not start a tradition of choosing one item to keep and donating the rest?
Anonymous says
Being loving and generous isn’t about buying a load of stuff. Stuff isn’t love. Toys aren’t love. When my mom shows up with literally half a pick up truck bed full of stuff for my kids at Christmas, that’s not about love for me or them. That’s about having an excuse of spend most of November and December shopping at the mall. She emails me at least every two-three days after she has finished her shopping, asking to do my shopping for me. My kids don’t even want half the stuff she buys because she doesn’t think about what they actually want. My 8 year old told me yesterday she wants to ask Santa for colorful post-its because she sees me use them and thinks they are cool, She doesn’t want 6 more sets of matching outfits for her and her American girl doll. But grandma has zero interest in post-its or experiences type gifts. The holidays are just an excuse for her to shop. If she loved the kids, she’d spend time with them. If she loved me, she wouldn’t dump the anxiety of how to store and organize multiple dozens of toys, books and clothes each Christmas. Stuff isn’t love.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Gifts are one of the five love languages and are a way for lots of people to express love. It’s not one of my top ones as I prefer quality time or words of affirmation, but that’s not to say that mine is right and theirs is wrong. Denying someone gift-giving would be like telling me that quality time isn’t that important and that’s it’s not showing love.
We use wish lists and try to limit the grandparents to a few physical gifts each.
Anonymous says
I don’t deny. I requested no more than one gift per child. That was totally ignored and it met with near hysterical tears anytime I try to discuss it further. Showing someone love is something you do with their love language as well. She knows I’m totally overwhelmed and does not care enough to stop.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Sorry Anonymous, that sounds like a tough situation. And honestly more of a mother problem rather than a gift giving problem. I was responding to the idea that gifts aren’t love, which I don’t agree with as gifts do show love for a lot of people. Is it possible for her to channel her love of shopping and getting kid stuff to buy and give to shelters and other donations?
rosie says
I do agree that gifts may be her love language and it’s not fair to say that she doesn’t love the kids because she doesn’t express her love in the same love language as the OP in this subthread would. But it sounds like in this case, there may be other issues at play if the grandma is out-of-touch with what the kids want or are into. My ILs used to send us that Harry & David tower of treats as a gift, and I mean, that’s nice, but we don’t eat meat and it generally had some kind of salami in it, so that never felt great.
Buble says
“Stuff isn’t love.” Exactly. So by rejecting the stuff, you’re not rejecting her love. Donate it all, guilt-free. If your mom calls you on it, you can say something like, unfortunately the kids weren’t really using it, so we passed it on to someone who would appreciate it more.
Anonymous says
I really do understand how people feel about huge volumes of stuff, especially junky stuff. It stresses me out just looking at it. When we spend the holidays at home, as soon as the gifts are opened we clear away the wrapping paper and boxes and put most things away, keeping out a few items to play with. Any unwanted junk goes straight into the donation bin in the garage or into the trunk of the car to be returned. We are lucky that over the years, most of our family members have also gotten sick of exchanging mountains of stuff, cut back on gifts in general, and switched mostly to consumables and experience gifts.
That said, I think it’s kind of obnoxious and holier-than-thou to try to enforce one’s own values and aesthetic preferences on gift-givers. A lot of these “how do I stop the gifts?” posts are really judgmental and have a tone of “the junk my relative gives my kids just isn’t good enough for them.” If you don’t like it, grin and bear it, then donate on the way to the airport.
Anonymous says
This assumes that you can donate it. My mom will open the toy packages, assemble the toys and give the children the toy wrapped up and ready to play with. It’s not possible to return. How do you donate your child’s Christmas gift on the way to the airport? You don’t get a ‘where’s my toy?’ from the child?
It’s not about not good enough. My in-laws gave a cook book and an apron to each kid last year. They LOVED it, DH and I loved it. That’s enough. It was more valued than the three large assembled playmobil sets that each kid got from my parents.
Anonymous says
“We didn’t have room for your toy so we are dropping it off for a kid who needs it!” Alternatively one year my MIL gave the kid a plastic playhouse and we just left it behind. She was outraged and thought we should have paid the excess baggage fee but we just did not.
Anonymous says
Leaving it behind is genius. “Let’s leave this special toy at Grandma’s house to play with when we visit!” Do that enough, and Grandma will get the message.
Anonanonanon says
Is it your SIL as in your sibling’s spouse, or your husband’s sibling? I faced this on my husband’s side of the family, and told him to either suggest we don’t buy gifts for each other’s kids or to handle it himself. He chose to handle it himself and I stay out of it.
Anonymous says
With kids those ages, I think ‘no gifts’ is going to come across as a little harsh. What about suggesting a new family tradition of a new book for each kid, plus a family outing for the cousins. If you aren’t local, it would be a fun tradition to take the kids to the movies or zoo or whatever together each year and the kids are old enough that they can participate in picking a book for their cousins.
rosie says
Well, it sounds like you tried to do smaller gifts last year and it didn’t work to your satisfaction? Hard to know the issue without more detail there.
I don’t think you can say “no gifts” at a gift-centered holiday (if that is what it is for your family). I would suggest exchanging wish lists. You could say that you are trying something new with your kids where you keep running lists with them of things they want, and then share the list with her. Keep it to small/packable things if that’s what you want. I would have a mix of specific items (a particular book or toy) and general categories (books about dinosaurs, fuzzy socks) to be more appealing to different kinds of shoppers and feel like you are offering a choice for the giver versus a transactional exchange — I know some people are very fine with the latter (tell me exactly what you want and I’ll get it), but it may not be appealing to all.
And if you don’t want to buy them stuff that they won’t like or use, ask for their wishlists.
Anonymous says
We do “Cousin Christmas.” The kids each draw a name, and they get to choose one gift to buy for that kid. They get to open the cousin gifts before Christmas, so it doesn’t feel grinchy because the kids *love* both giving and receiving their special gift. I feel your overwhelm (January rage-purge, amirite?), but Cousin Christmas is a bright spot for us.
Buble says
This sounds really cute!
white elephant says
We do this too, in a family with 12 cousins from 31 to 7 and it works out well. We set a spending limit and it’s done as a secret Santa. We also do a white elephant/yankee swap for everyone – you bring one $10 gift and can trade it 3 times. People get VERY into it and take it seriously enough that you don’t end up with junk.
Anon says
Can you suggest books or experience gifts? Or things your children actually need like clothes? If your children want for nothing as you say, perhaps you can buy them less yourself and rely more on gifts from relatives at the holidays. I know that I spend hundreds of dollars on my kid each year just on basic necessities and she’s not even in elementary school yet. If I was more organized and my relatives were happy to buy off a wish list, I could farm some of these things out to relatives.
People want to give gifts. I don’t think it has to translate to dozens of plastic toys, but just declaring no gifts can be off-putting to people who enjoy giving (and/or receiving) gifts.
Buble says
Agree with populating your wish list with “needs”. I went back through my Amazon orders from the last year and put on my kids’ wish lists anything that’s a consumable that they actually used and I might buy again, to let relatives buy it for them instead: socks, tights, pajamas, markers, crayons, paintbrushes, shoes, coloring books, cute body wash kits. Anything but light up plastic toys!
anon says
This is a great idea! We do lots of consumables for our stocking stuffers.
Pogo says
This. SIL and I populate our lists for the kids with things that can’t be handed down because they get worn out easily, and always need to be bought in the next size up – ski gear, pjs, winter boots, sneakers or cleats, gymnastics or dance leos, etc. So usually I get her kids each one “useful gear” gift and one “fun toy” gift; she does the same for me.
I make little attempt to reign in the in-laws because gifts are their love language. They bought my son a bike last year for Christmas that he STILL is too small to ride – so it’s basically just A Thing That Takes Up Space in our garage.
Buble says
Oh my gosh, I felt the cringe reading about the bike you’ve been storing for almost a year now and will be for the near future — all my sympathy. I had a similar, smaller-scale situation with an aunt who bought my girls beautiful hardcover books when they were newborns that were appropriate for elementary-school kids. Too nice to just get rid of, but totally age-inappropriate, so I’ve now held onto them through three moves and counting…
Anon says
You ask the parents for experience gifts and let the SIL and her nieces buy the toys. That means better and more experience gifts and you aren’t a grinch to your SIL.
So instead of movie tickets, think things like admission tickets to Busch Gardens, the zoo, gift certificates to a kid-oriented hotel nearby for a fun night away, etc.
Buble says
I don’t think this has to be a big deal. You could just shoot her a text that says something like, “What would you think about skipping exchanging gifts for the kids this year and instead doing something cute like taking them to the movies or ice cream all together?” No judgment, just a suggestion, and gives her plenty of space to gently disagree by responding something like, “Oh I don’t know, toys might be more fun.” Or she might be totally up for it!
Anonymous says
+1.
Lots of thoughts on this says
We sent an email out to everyone the year our first baby was born with a description of what our goals were for holidays/gift giving. Time spent with family together, time spent with our community, volunteering etc. In it, it stated how we were going to handle holidays and ways that grandparents and aunts could be involved. It did involve some gift giving but really focused on other things.
We have always been this way. No wedding gifts (asked people to make donations if they wanted to a variety of charities), no baby shower gifts (asked people to donate diapers). People are used to us not wanting gifts. If people want to give us something I do have a list ready of gifts that I would love for experiences. Family membership to the art museum, donate to a favorite podcast, massage etc.
I lead by example. When someone’s baby is born I send them a meal or if I am far away from them I send them a box of delicious snacks. I sometimes send one of my kids books that they used as a baby with it saying “so and so loooved this book. We hope you love it to” . but nothing new was purchased. For children gifts I give experiences such as a membership to the zoo etc.
My mother loves giving gifts and so every birthday I come up with something she can sew for me that I need custom made around my house.
This is only going to change if you communicate why you want it to change (too many gifts, climate change, not wanting plastic etc) . and what you would rather have in return.
Our aunts take the kids on aunt days and the get to spend time and spoil them rotten on those days. As a thank you I use the postcard app to have my kids write a thank you and send a picture from that day (this app mails an actual physical card). I have noticed the aunts love having these on their fridge to share what a fun day they had with their nieces/nephews.
Anonymous says
Yup. This is exactly the sanctimonious rude message I think we should be avoiding.
Anonymous says
+1.
Anon says
“I lead by example. When someone’s baby is born I send them a meal or if I am far away from them I send them a box of delicious snacks. I sometimes send one of my kids books that they used as a baby with it saying “so and so loooved this book. We hope you love it to” . but nothing new was purchased.”
I sincerely hope you understand that for many people, baby showers are almost a necessity: they could not, on their own, afford to buy clothes, diapers, a crib, a dresser, toys, a high chair, and car seats. Seriously, just send diapers. For kids whose parents end up buying them used things because they can’t afford nice new things, stop being cheap and send the new book.
Anonymous says
+1. I was in grad school when we had our daughter. My husband’s co-workers went in together to buy us a couple of big-ticket items and it was amazing.
My SIL kept sending us completely worn-out stuff that she had bought used and then used for her kids (think stained t-shirts, books that were falling apart), which I then had to feel guilty about tossing.
Anon says
Good grief. I fail to understand the thought that “someone” will use things that have obviously exceeded their useful life – and I say this as someone who earns a very good salary and voluntarily drives a car with over 300,000 miles on it. Just be happy that you got so much use out of the item that it has been truly worn out, recycle it or throw it away, and buy something in good condition for the recipients of your charity.
Anon at 12:19 says
No, I definitely threw the stuff in the trash. It was way beyond donation. I just had to feel guilty that I was rejecting her gift. Which I think was her goal.
Anon says
I meant your SIL should have thrown them in the trash, understand that they were beyond their useful life and therefore not an appropriate gift or donation.
Blueberries says
I think this is very much a know your people situation and try to do what would make them happy. I have a small home in a VHCOL area—space and time are in very short supply for most of my friends, but funds to buy the necessities and nice-to-haves are not. Lots of thoughts’ approach of giving meals or a hand-me-down book (or gear!) would be perfect for us and many of my local friends.
I try to give what friends and family would like—for folks in other situations, that often means buying new thing(s). It’s easier on me!
The email approach would probably hurt feelings in my circle. However, I’ve talked with my parents about how my home is tiny and they understand and respect that when it comes to gift giving.
avocado says
This is really the issue: know your recipient and try to give something that would make them happy. If the donor cares about making the recipient happy, there are tactful ways for the recipient to suggest what gifts would achieve that goal. If the donor is in it only for her own happiness, like many of the grandparents described here, there is really nothing the recipient can do to change the donor’s behavior.
Pogo says
avocado nailed it.
Anon says
Not the OP but I think the comment from Anon 11:45 about the “send the new book” is exactly the problem though. We shouldn’t be wanting new. My household has a very large income and we could afford all new clothes/toys/items. However, because we are concerned about the climate change we don’t. Our family is all in used clothes and we are fine. I grew up all in used clothes and was fine. This idea that new is better is such a problem. Yes, someone had to buy something new originally for me to buy it used but I love the fact that then those clothes can lead many many more lives. And if I am hunting for something I really can’t find used then I make sure I buy it local to reduce shipping impacts and to support a local store. For clothes then I try to buy organic cotton and from a local designer. OBVIOUSLY I realize the privilege that comes with the time to spend hunting for used items and to then spend more when I do need to buy new. However, if people can afford the time and effort we need to be switching the mindset that new is best.
Anon says
We’re talking about presents to other people. Buy the new book.
Anonymous says
Having children is also not helping mitigate climate change, but it is a very personal decision. If a family likes used stuff, great, give them used stuff, but generally speaking I think we should avoid using gift-giving as a teachable moment.
Anon says
Also, when the subject is baby showers, we’re often talking about people who cannot afford new things. There’s a huge difference between shopping at a nice consignment store for your kids and buying them used things on clearance at Goodwill because you cannot afford new. Kids know when they are poor, they know when everything is worn out, old, scratched, and soiled. You know very well what my point is, and you know that you’re just flaunting your own wealth by shaming people for wanting something new and working and clean for their own kids.
Anonymous says
Amen to Anon at 3:45.
Anon says
99% of American families who have a shower for their first born baby. So that means some families having a baby shower can’t afford new things and some families can afford things. I am saying alll families should opt to focus on recycled gifting. Because guess what? If we are bringing it down to a wealth thing- when the climate crisis gets real bad in just a few years those same families who can’t afford new items, are also going to be the same families that can’t afford to move to get their children to safe areas to live. Notice with the fires in the bay area last year – anyone that could afford to was able to fly/drive their kids out to cleaner air. Those that couldn’t afford to leave were stuck in the toxic air. So those families, the ones that can’t afford gifts, should actually be the most concerned about green gifting because preventing climate change is in their best interest. Also, on a practical level – consigned items will help dollars stretch.
And did I say I was purchasing new consignment? Haha my kid is wearing head to toe Goodwill right now. Total cost of his outfit: sweatshirt, pants, shirt 1.47 got to love those 49 cent color days. And they are working and clean thanks to a washer and dryer.
I think your value mindest is really affecting your opinion on this. New does not mean better. The richest people I know drive a car that has duct tape on the door.
Anon says
Anon at 4:19, buying a working-class family a new book is not going to precipitate a massive climate crisis. Buy the new book and get over yourself.
Anon says
I’m guessing it seems that she wouldn’t be receptive to that idea since you are asking here. If your SIL would genuinely be sad about not buying gifts then it may be something you have to put up with. Maybe it would be easier if she specifically told you what the kids wanted/needed? And you told her? To me the most stressful thing about giving gifts is figuring out what to get that is wanted and useful.
AwayEmily says
Seems from the many comments here like there is not a one-size-fits-all approach — the “right” approach will depend on your relationship with your family members, their view on gifts, etc — and that’s okay. I think sending out one blanket email or message to your whole family ignores the reality that gifts mean different things to different people. I’m fine with asking my mom to do experience gifts (and she doesn’t care either way), but it would break my MIL’s heart to not be able to buy my daughter random clothes at Target. And so she continues to buy the clothes, I take photos of my kid in them and then donate them to Goodwill, and everyone is happy. So, OP, I guess my advice is to think carefully about EACH of your kids’ grandparents, what gift-giving means to them and to your relationship, and then figure out a strategy that maximizes your happiness, their happiness, and the health of your relationships.
anon says
+1. Holidays became much less stressful when I finally got it through my head that gift-giving is my IL’s love language. Is it my favorite thing? No, it absolutely is not. But on the other hand, it reduces the pressure on us to go crazy with gift-giving.
I’m all for setting gentle boundaries and encouraging the grandparents to steer their gift-giving in a direction you’re OK with, but some of the responses in this thread are pretty harsh! I can tell you that our gentle pleas for experience gifts have been ignored completely — they want the experience of watching their grandkids open presents.
anon says
How about suggesting a cousin book exchange? We have 10 cousins under 10 in my family, and gift-giving can quickly turn into too much, without some limitations in place. The book exchange is really fun and gives the older kiddos a chance to pick out something they know their cousins would enjoy.
Anon says
My almost 19 month old is biting other kids at daycare 1-2x/week. Sometimes more, rarely less. It’s worse when she’s teething. We have the ‘Teeth are Not for Biting’ book but I’d like to find some other resources.
She bites more when she’s frustrated at other kids (they’re trying to take my toy away, etc). Her language skills seem very average (she has ‘mine,”no,’ and others), but I would like to try to improve them so she could default to words in the heat of the moment instead of biting. Is there something out there that helps with this?
Anonanonanon says
Maybe I’m underestimating my 20-month-old, but I don’t feel like she is old enough to make the connection between the stories we read in a book and real-life. If I tell her not to do something in the moment, and then enact consequences when she doesn’t listen, she seems capable of translating that to future situations (even if it translates as “watch me do this with an impish smile because I know you’re about to get worked up”).
The daycare has way more experience dealing with this issue than you do, how are they currently dealing with it? What have they done in the past with similar situations? Is she biting at home or just at daycare?
OP says
Daycare is watching her closely and trying to intervene before she bites. But even with 3 teachers and 9 kids, you can’t catch it every time. When she does bite they tend to the injured kid first, and try to make kid realize that she hurt them. She seems to get it, she just gets angry and bites still.
She doesn’t really bite at home – she’s more likely to bite her own arm in personal frustration than parents/grandparents/other family. Daycare says this self-biting is not uncommon.
Daycare is having a team meeting on Friday to talk about other ways to try to stop the biting. I don’t think they’ll kick her out. They’ve been really nice an understanding, but feel that something needs to change.
Anonymous says
I thought it was absurd when daycare suggested it but I started sending my biter with more snacks.
Redux says
Our daycare does a lot of substitution for biters using teethers (though snacks I think are the same). So, they say to the biter: teeth are not for biting friends; would you like to bite on a teether? and hand the kid a teether. It seemed to help my biter, but honestly I think it’s just a phase they grow through.
asdf says
No advice but solidarity from the mother of another biter. Mine has grown out of it (for now) but at the time it was incredibly frustrating and upsetting. Hang it there!
Anonymous says
Ditto!
HSAL says
I much prefer having the bitee than the biter. My oldest was bit a few times and one of my 16 month old twins is a biter. It’s so embarrassing. We’ll get an “incident report” that she bit “a friend” at 11:50 and then I’m relieved when we get a “boo-boo report” for her brother that he was bitten at 11:50. At least they’re mainly keeping it in the family.
Anonymous says
That is hilarious. At least you know they are serious about their privacy policy!
100% agree that it is easier to be the parent of the victim than of the perpetrator.
Redux says
Hahaha, that is hilarious! There are no secrets at daycare. Even when the teachers follow strict confidentiality, I get all the news at pick-up: who bit whom, who got a time out, who had to change his pants because he had an accident…
Anon says
Haha that’s adorable. My 20 month old has yet to bite or get bitten but I’m sure it’s just a matter of time.
Anonymous says
Haha, my daycare didn’t bother with incident reports when my twins bit each other, we just got told about it at pickup.
Pogo says
Ha, that is hilarious.
mahnamahna says
I had a daycare biter too. We were extremely fortunate to have a great teacher who worked with us to get thru it and honestly probably overlooked a few of the more minor encounters that would have otherwise required an incident report. Until your post, I had forgotten that we ended up sending in a paci on a strap and they allowed her to use it for more than naptime, like when she was getting frustrated or agitated. It worked. I had a lot of angst about allowing her to have the paci so much and for so long, but she gave up her paci on her own terms at about 2.7 months. She’s 4.5 now, her teeth are really straight and we’ve moved on to other power struggles. I also now remember one of the other ideas was “chewlery” or “chewy tubes” which you can find on amazon. It is hard not to worry about this, but it is totally normal and it will pass.
Pogo says
Mine doesn’t bite at daycare (knock on all the wood) but when he’s bite-y at home we give him “chewlery”, which he refers to as “my beads”. He does it when he’s frustrated or tired mostly, and just last night we had a breakthrough where he asked for “my beads” rather than chomping someone/something.
Since I am often the object of the biting, we read “Little dinos don’t bite” because the message of that book is not to bite your mom. The dino also bites his chair and his toys, which is something else my kid does, so it’s very relevant.
Anon says
My kiddo only bit me, but we had a lot of success with “Little Dinos Don’t Bite.” At 2.5 now, little dinos are our role models. We read the book regularly. We reinforce it off-script from the book if she does something (like an exploratory nibble or an excited chomp even now) I tell her no, set her aside, tell her “no biting (or licking, or spitting, or whatever the problem is, lordy the licking these days, so gross)” and then wrap her up in a hug (“little dinos give hugs”) and a kiss (“little dinos give kisses”) and then give her the “serious look” and say “but little dino’s don’t XYZ”. Seems to be working in the moment at least.
Anon says
What little thing would you get to treat yourself after getting a bonus? I’m not trying to go crazy, but would love a little pick me up! TIA!
Anonymous says
A day at the Korean day spa, and I’d splurge on the foot massage
Irish Midori says
ZOMG yes! I miss living near a Korean day spa. I loved the massages, though now that I know a little more about them I worry a bit about potential labor ethics behind the scenes (tip well if you do it).
Anonymous says
Thanks for that buzzkill.
Irish Midori says
Yeah, sorry. And yours may be fine. I just have a friend who is a LMT and started looking into it, and she came across some sad findings. Usually they are as well-regulated as anything, and fine. But I always try to tip well and pay attention, just in case.
Anonymous says
Agree with a spa treatment or two. New winter booties (that I can’t really justify otherwise given I already have very nice boots). Winter weight leggings. Wireless earbuds. New slippers.
(In other words, my Christmas list for anyone who is asking, lol.)
lsw says
I’d get a Nintendo Switch or a non-practical Clare V bag.
ElisaR says
i bought a new wallet… mine was like 12 years old and i splurged for a pretty new one.
Redux says
Does anyone have experience with personlized storybooks? I get a lot of ads for a few different brands, but would love a recommendation from someone who has actually purchased one. My kids are 6 and 3, so I’m looking for something with a bit more story. Andy recommendations?
Anon says
I got my friends’ son an I See Me personalized book for his first birthday. I thought it had a good story and he’s now 2.5 and still enjoying it (or so they tell me, anyway ;))
Buble says
The one my daughter has liked best (and we’ve gotten 3 or 4) is the one that had her photo in it as well as her name. It didn’t have much of a story to it, but she really liked seeing her face on all the pages.
Redux says
Do you know where it’s from?
EP-er says
I got a Shutterfly Sesame Street book, with my son’s picture in it. It was hard cover and really nice, but honestly we haven’t read it in years. I have also gotten a few from Wonderbly (Birthday Thief & Wonka Golden Ticket one) which my kids liked quite a bit, even as they have gotten older. Nice quality, great customer service!
Redux says
Thanks for this!
Pogo says
I did Hooray Heroes for Father’s Day. The dad in the book looks exactly like my husband (his memoji looks exactly like him, so I think he’s just got a slightly cartoonish face maybe? lol) so kiddo knows that it’s daddy, which is cute. He doesn’t get that the little boy is supposed to be him. It was very customizable (again, along the lines of memoji in what you get to pick), was delivered quickly. It is definitely wordy and more for elementary kids – at this point LO is not super into having us read it, just looks at the pictures.
Pogo says
In moderation but I did Hooray Heroes.
Redux says
How did you find the quality of the story?
Redux says
Now I see your original comment– thanks!
anon says
We really liked the Wonderbly books. I haven’t bought them since they expanded their offerings, but we have Lost My Name, Kingdom of You and Intergalactic Journey, and my kids loved them around this age.
Redux says
Thanks!
Anonymous says
It terms of donating toys that are still age approrpiate I have no idea how other people can pull this off without major complaints from the toy giver. My mom is HIGHLY offended if I donate anything that has not been clearly outgrown by years. As in statements like ‘I spend a long time picking out xyz toy at xyz store, I can’t believe you would just give it away without talking to the kids. Suzie, did you know that your mom gave away your xyz toy? Did you like that toy?”
Anon says
How does she even know this?
And you shut down the complaints. It’s not her place to interfere with parental decision-making. You’re in charge of your household.
Anonymous says
Because she’s at my house at least weekly and she looks around the playroom to see what toys are there. What do you suggest to say to shut down the complaints that won’t be met with ‘I just want them to have nice toys to play with. What’s wrong with toys? You had lots of toys as a child. ?
I’m not prepared to deny her access to her grandchildren over this as it is not fair to them and she is otherwise a great and invovled grandma.
Anonymous says
“Mom, I refuse to keep having this conversation with you. I’ve repeatedly told you that you give too many gift. You cannot guilt trip my kids over this. I will ask you to leave.”
And then ask her to leave.
Anon says
Yes, what Anonymous said. There are a wide range of options between having the discussion and denying her access to her grandchildren.
Anon says
I wouldn’t donate a brand new toy, I would save it for other kids parties! (But I am cheap.) My daughter got four shape sorters for her first birthday, one was custom-made and personalized (and also from my BFF) so we kept that one obviously but the other three were from more distant relatives and were Fisher-Price, etc. so they went into a closet to be used as future birthday party gifts. And yes obviously don’t tell the gift giver!
Anonymous says
A- I do not tell her
B- I say “mom, we’ve talked about this many times. You give the kids too much stuff, I don’t have room for it, and they don’t have time to play with it. I’m teaching them to be generous to others.”
C- I tell her that guilt tripping my kids in unacceptable
D- I do not fuss over whether any of this makes her mad. My kids accepted the gifts graciously and said thank you, and that is all I care about.
Irish Midori says
Ugh. That’s really rude of her to drag the kids into it. I’d gift her a KonMari book and then ask her if she’s read it later. (I know, it’s kinda rude, but she started it.)
Buble says
Just because something is age-appropriate doesn’t mean your kids like it or use it often. Have you tried explaining to her the studies that show that kids with fewer toys actually enjoy them more and play with them more, versus becoming too overwhelmed by too many choices?
Also, could you put away the toys you don’t want to keep out in storage (attic, basement, top of closet), then if Grandma asks where they are, explain that you’re trying a new system of rotating toys in and out to maximize novelty/enjoyment. Then just never rotate them in, and donate them down the road.
Finally, could you ask Grandma if she would want to keep the gifted toys at her house?
Anonymous says
Thanks. I do appreciate the thoughtful suggestions. I’ve actually tried all of these except the last one. On the first her response is ‘well I’m a nurse and I know children need a sufficient amount of stimulate to develop properly. I only buy high quality toys…”. I’ve done the second idea for a few years now but as the kids have gotten bigger, they know what is in the storage area and request specific items for rotation even if they don’t play with them a lot so it’s harder to donate them out because they complain that they are still playing with it. For next year, I’m going to crack down on anything larger than a bread box has to stay at grandmas. I’m worried that this will result in fights about electronics as she wanted to buy all three ipads this year in addition to the usual clothes and books and toys. I literally have a walk in closet in the basement full of playmobil that she has gifted. Appreciate the support that standing up to her on this stuff is reasonable.
Anonymous says
“You can’t give the kids iPads. If you do, I will return them.” And then if she does, return them.
SC says
This is what we do. When I clean out the play room, I initially store toys in the garage or attic. If Kiddo asks about a toy, I wait until I’m home alone and then “find” it. A few months later, I go through the bins and try cycling in anything that isn’t duplicative and might get played with (usually just one or two things out of a large bin). Then I donate the rest. If my mom or anyone asks about a toy, I say we’re using the “cycling” system.
I also keep a bin of favorite toys my son has outgrown for my younger nieces and nephews or friends’ kids.
Anonymous says
It sounds like you see your mom a lot – does she live near by? My parents had a policy where toys gifted to us by grandparents stayed at our grandaparents’ house. We saw them all the time (1-2x a week for each set), and they stored them in a rubbermaid bin and brought them out when we were there. It was fun going to their homes and playing with the “special” grandparent toys. I am the oldest of many cousins on both sides, so the toys were reused for all my cousins when they were little.
Anonymous says
Yes. She lives less than a 5 minute drive away and I see her 1-2 times a week. Their house already has a full playroom stocked with toys that she saved from our childhood. I’m going to crack down on no new toys coming to our house that are bigger than a bread box but it’s hard because she won’t tell me what she has bought in advance and once the kids open it, they want it to come to our house. It’s hard because she takes even light rejection of stuff via suggesting it stay at her house, as a rejection of her. She has self-esteem issues and it bleeds over into buying the grandchildren’s love with gifts. She’s generally a good grandma except for this one issue and I resent that it ruins the special occassions like holidays and birthdays because she cannot accept any reasonable boundaries. My oldest’s first Christmas she bought 25 medium-large sized toys, that’s when we imposed the one toy rule but that has turned into like one American Girl doll plys 5 outfits plus books, hair accessories, clothes etc.
Anon says
can you frame it to your mom that you really want to teach your kids to be as generous as she is in terms of thinking of others, so that for every new toy in, one should be donated? for me growing up, my parents had be choose one of my new birthday and Hannukah gifts every year to donate to the Ronald McDonald House nearby and I recall going with them to drop it off
Anonymous says
Thanks for this idea. This won’t work with my mom as she’s basically a ‘hoarder’ mentality about letting go of stuff (still has barbie clothes with rips from when I was a kid) but it would work with my kids who are sometimes reluctant to give up toys that are in great condition but that they are not really using. I could probably get them into a one in one out policy without too much trouble as they are used to one up one down for the basement storage area toy rotation.
Irish Midori says
I’m struggling with appropriate discipline. I have an *extremely* strong-willed 9yo who recently got sent home early from afterschool care for refusing to comply with basic request (come outside with the class) and being disrespectful (basically they couldn’t handle him). This is the first time it’s happened with this particular set of caregivers, but not the first time we’ve gotten a similar call from school. Kid is sensitive, stubborn, full of negative thought patterns, and yes, he’s in counseling, and we’re working with his therapist. But sensitivity aside, he can’t act this way and there have to be consequences. For one, if he gets kicked out of after school care, I have zero options. For another, allowing my kid to be disrespectful to authority figures and not comply with basic safety rules is not good for society or for him.
Husband and I are on same page that his echo dot (favorite possession) is confiscated for a week, and no screens. Husband wants him to write a letter apologizing to the after school counselor. I am with him in spirit, but struggling with how to “make” this kid do anything, particularly write an apology (which he insists is insincere, as he “did nothing wrong” and they got mad at him “for no reason”–all of which is his typical denial reaction to anything he can’t stand to face–again, we’re working on it, but that’s a longer-term process and I need a path forward this week).
Anonymous says
I would work with the after-school program and Kid’s therapist to implement a positive behavior management plan. Taking away privileges may not work well, as this will be perceived as arbitrary and unconnected to his actual behavior. Finding a way for him to earn privileges through proper behavior might be more effective.
Anonymous says
If your husband feels strongly about the letter, then he can figure out how to make that happen. It wouldn’t be my preference but I also don’t think it is a horrible thing to do. You have my sympathy it’s a real hard road to travel. I found aftercare just did not work for my kid. It was too much after a full day of rule following. We wound up hiring a college student to do pick up and either take him to an activity he liked or just bring him home.
Irish Midori says
I’ve done that before and loved it! But the college kid took on a more full load this semester and isn’t available, and I’ve not had time to find another one. We’re not in a college town, and so they are a little hard to come by. I’m hoping next semester I can get that system going again. I’m with you–it’s a long day for anyone, particularly an introverted kid.
Anon says
If you can find one, I highly recommend seeing a behavioral psychologist. Ours was a godsend for our similarly strongwilled (and ADHD) child. We saw other therapists before, and they were frankly way less effective. The behavioral psychologist set up a very clear plan that not only incentivized compliance in the short term, but also taught her over the long term to seek to fulfill her needs (primarily attention, for our child) with positive behavior. Another facet of the plan worked on improving her toleration for negative emotions. Our kid will always be a headstrong, high-energy kid, but we are now much much better at channeling that energy and tenaciousness in positive directions.
Anon says
I love love love the book The Power of Positive Parenting. It has scripts basically. I encourage your husband and you to read Chapter 5 “A Word about Consequences”. I bet it would help you both decide what you can do and how to word it with your child.
Baby clothes says
A couple of questions about newborn clothes, as I prepare for my first. First, did you actually need any newborn sized clothes, or did you skip them altogether? I expect my baby’s birthweight to be right around average. Second, would it be worth buying any clothes from primary (either in NB or bigger sizes), or not really, given how quickly babies grow?
Anonymous says
Mine needed newborn clothes for about a month but I didn’t buy any. I got tons of them as gifts! I don’t think expensive baby clothes are worth it at all, but I also totally buy them because I want to. If you’re thinking you need the fancy stuff you 100% do not, but if you just want it go for it.
Anonymous says
I bought very few newborn clothes on the assumption that they would be too small for an average-sized baby, but for the first two or three weeks they ended up fitting my 8-lb baby much better than the 0-3 month size. I would not buy anything expensive or fancy until baby is at least 6 months old. They grow so quickly and stain everything. The Target brands are great.
Anon says
I used the newborn clothes for about a month for my full-term but slightly small (6lb 11oz and not fast growing) kid. But we also got a TON of newborn clothes as gifts, and some more as hand me downs, so I didn’t need to buy any of them. If you have a local Buy Nothing group, or other moms group it’s not too hard to get a lot of used NB clothes, because they are grown out of so quickly.
I would buy 3 sets (9 pairs total) of the Cloud Island Sleep n Plays from Target. I would buy them in NB and then honestly in every size they make them in. They have a reverse zipper, are $12.99/3 pack and are magic.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Neither of my babies fit into newborn (over 9 and 10 lbs) but we did buy a few NB onesies just in case. It can’t hurt to have them on hand but I wouldn’t buy too many before you know how big your baby will be. I love love love primary but I tend to buy clothes from there that I know will last a while so I’ve been buying from there for my older son, to eventually hand down to the younger one. Clothes for the 0-12 range tend to last a few months at most so maybe if you want to save to hand down or sell back but I’d probably stick with Old Navy/Carters. If it’s in your budget though then go for it as they have really cute, non-gendered stuff.
Irish Midori says
My first one was born too big to wear nb clothes and went straight to 0-3 mo, which he wore for like a few weeks, then into 6-9 month (he was 8.5 lbs, so not really huge actually). The second one started in preemie clothes, and then wore nb for quite a while. IOW, it’s almost impossible to predict. But yes, people love to buy and gift tiny baby clothes, so you may get enough to start with, and then you can always order more once you know what you need after baby arrives. I learned not to buy or register for much clothes (anything over a pack of onsies in each size); gift cards are more useful, or at least receipts, so you can match the size and season as they come.
Anon says
I skipped NB sizes, but I’m pretty minimalist and honestly did not care if my baby was in clothes that were slightly too big. The 0-3M clothes I bought were all Carter’s (which runs big) and were definitely roomy on my kiddo for the first month or so, but not falling off or baggy to the point where I was worried about safety. It just wasn’t the best look, style-wise but I didn’t care. She was 8 lbs 6 oz at birth, but under 8 lbs when we left the hospital, for reference.
Primary clothes run small in my experience, I would definitely not buy anything from Primary in under 6M size and I would plan for your child to wear it significantly earlier than that if they’re on the bigger side. I didn’t buy any Primary but I bet their 0-3M clothes would have fit my baby very well at birth.
Everything I was gifted was 3-6M or bigger, which was ideal (I may have mentioned to a few friends that I expected a big baby given my birthweight and DH’s birthweight – he was a 10 lb-er!!)
anon says
I had a small baby (~6 lbs) and was really under prepared in the clothing department. I somehow got it in my head that we would be gifted a ton of clothes and that I shouldn’t buy any. That is bad advice. I mean, that does happen, but for us it happened later on, and it was a lot of party clothes. I think my 6-month old had like 15 frilly dresses. I try to be grateful that people want to give her things, but how about just some nice, soft play clothes???? I digress but if the baby is measuring under 7.5 lbs, I would go with at least 10 newborn-sized outfits, depending on your laundry situation. My MIL was mildly (and rightfully) horrified by how few times we put my daughter in a new outfit. I was like, but she isn’t getting dirty…but yeah, you should still change their clothes. I’d recommend a couple magnetic close onesies and some with zippers so you can see what you like. I’m a fan of Hanna Andersson PJs. Avoid snaps. they are too much work.
Buble says
Not really, re Primary. Honestly, I would get anything you’re not gifted from a secondhand store, like kids consignment, not necessarily Goodwill. They often have like-new onesies for a dollar because so many get purchased and never worn.
On that note, I would have maybe 4-5 outfits and 4-5 pajamas to start with, and otherwise just buy things as you actually need them — don’t “buy ahead” because you may end up with too much.
Anonymous says
For the first few weeks, I’d only have PJs and onesies, but more than 4-5 sets unless you want to do laundry every single day.
Anon says
I was fine with about 5 sets and only had to do laundry ever 2-3 days. However, I basically only changed her if there was a blowout so sometimes she wore the same PJs for 48 hours. Perhaps that’s kind of gross, but newborns don’t sweat the way adults or even older kids do.
Anonymous says
I cannot imagine going 48 hours without a bodily fluid disaster (diaper blowout, spit-up, milk squirting everywhere…).
Buble says
Sure, she can always buy more — if once baby arrives, OP finds that she can’t keep up with laundry and is running out, Amazon 2-day delivery to the rescue. :) Or she could buy them to have on hand and then return what goes unused, as long as she makes sure not to miss the return window. Whatever seems logistically easier, but I’m just saying it isn’t a given that more than 4-5 onesies will be necessary for everyone.
anon says
With both of my kids, we really did need and use newborn clothes. I was really underprepared with my first, who was 6 lbs., 7 oz. I definitely would go the secondhand route but do have them on hand!
Annie says
For my summer baby I just had about a week’s worth of newborn onsies and that worked well for the few weeks before she wore 0-3 month sizes. For my winter baby I had several days worth of newborn sleep and plays ready if necessary and figured I could amazon prime the rest from the hospital if needed. My winter baby didn’t fit in newborn clothes at birth so I’m glad I didn’t buy more.
Anonymous says
My average sized child at birth (but healthily slow gainer – 14% growth curve) was in NB clothes for around 4 weeks. We had 5-6 outfits at best. I was on leave so did laundry every couple days. It was no big deal. We started with 3-4 outfits and once we realized kiddo was squarely in NB size, we ran to Target for a package of some more. By “outfit” I mean footed sleep and plays.
Anonymous says
Used them for a month with my first who was around 7lbs. Second baby was >9lbs and skipped NB. No one gifted me NB for my first so I had to buy them and actually used them. Both babies measured average and the second was clearly large so…you can’t predict this. And the second baby is 3 months and almost in 12 month clothes so I wouldn’t try to predict seasonable clothes either. Oh…and I have a baby with reflux so we need wayyyy more clothes than my first. Like goes through 6 outfits/pjs a day.
Anon says
for my 4lb twins i got away with two packs of gerber onesies in newborn size that a friend lent me and then just started putting them in 0-3 months clothes a bit early. they probably actually wore their 0-3 months clothes for like 4-5 months. mine were also born in the summer in per doctors orders did not go outside bc it was too hot. when they were inside they were typically in a onesie, or starting out in a kimono style shirt until the umbilical chord fell off, and swaddled and then in PJs at night. might be different for a winter baby.
CCLA says
Our kids were average size and we used NB clothing for maybe a month. That said, for the first 3 months they wore almost exclusively footed sleepers with reverse zipper (eg from cloud island at target). Like, we figured that worked for us a few weeks in for kid 1, so when kid 2 came along we literally bought a dozen of those sleepers in NB and 0-3 mo size, and that is all she wore for the first three months other than a few gifted outfits. Obv this depends on your personal taste for ease vs style, but if you’re firmly on team easy, that worked well for us.
anon. says
I didn’t buy NB clothes and ended up having nothing for my small (5 lb 4 oz) baby. My husband had to run to Target and pick up a bunch of stuff the day we left the hospital. In retrospect, I’d buy it and at least have it at home. He ended up in newborn clothes for maybe 8 weeks? Awhile.
Second question – I LOVE primary and regularly stocked up during sales. Their onesies wore like iron for us. They could be washed gazillions of times without pilling and were used on multiple kids. I wouldn’t necessarily buy for newborn or 0-3 months but would thereafter.
Pogo says
I was surprised how long mine stayed in NB. He was pretty chunky (8 3/4 lbs) but lost a lot of weight upon discharge and took over a month to get back to birth weight. I brought 0-3 clothes for the hospital and in our pictures he is just swimming in them!
On Primary, it is great quality. You can absolutely get away with whatever random onesies you are gifted or get secondhand, but if you want to buy one of their starter sets, they are really nice! (just got one for a friend).
Anon says
I didn’t buy NB clothes because we grow big babies, and sure enough mine was 8.5 lbs at 38 weeks delivered by C. I think we had been gifted two onesies without a gift receipt that were NB, and she wore those maybe the first week, but other than that she was in 0-3 right from the start (and now 5T at 2.5 – we grow them big).
As to primary, we haven’t. I have heard that their clothes run narrower from other moms, and as noted above, I have a chunkster. For the early days, it was mostly carters and gap and hanna (all gifts, I don’t think I started buying kiddo clothes until 12M). We also kept our house chilly, even in summer, so kiddo almost never wore onesies and almost exclusively wore zipper sleepers for the first 6+ months of her life, unless there was a special occasion (lunch with aunties, going out to a party, etc.). Knowing that we want to have multiple children, and that my younger sisters also want kids, and my friends are just now starting to have kids, I was willing to invest in “nicer” pieces that were gender neutral (e.g., lots of hanna PJs) that would survive being handed down, but I went with carters or gap (on sale) for mostly everything else.
Anon says
I wouldn’t say Primary runs narrow, just small overall. My kid is tall and chunky and Primary fits her fine, we just have to size way up (she wears 3T tops/dresses and 2T pants at 18 months).
JTM says
I gave birth to a 7lb little peanut so she was in newborn sleepers for the first 4-6wks of her life.
Anonymous says
I felt like it was murphy’s law that I would have a giant baby if I laid in a supply of newborn clothes, so I did not, and still ended up with a 9 lb baby that was over 22″ long when he was dragged into the world at 42 weeks. He was fine in 0-3 month clothes. But he was born in the summer, so he mostly wore a diaper and the many many layers of a miracle blanket swaddle in his early weeks. I never had anything fancy, mostly carters hand me downs, which were soft and cute and totally fine. Nothing wears out in 3 months.
JM says
You can always buy NB clothes when the baby comes and stick with 0-3M for now. I had a 4lb preemie so we were in NB size for at least 3 months. I had no NB clothes so my sister went out and bought some onesies from Carters.
So Anon says
Since we are on the topic of the holidays, for those of you who are separated/divorced or parents were when you were a kid, any suggestions on how to handle the upcoming big holidays? (We celebrate Christmas.) My kids are with me all of the time except every other weekend during the day, and our agreement provides that we will try to share time over the holidays. I’ve read that when divorced parents try to do “joint holidays,” where there is one Thanksgiving dinner, for example, it sends a weird message to the kids that the parents are still together. Do you think that’s true? I really don’t want to spend time with their dad, but he’s given me the whole “you are the only family I have” sad song. And otherwise he will be all alone on Thanksgiving (which may or may not be true.) While I really don’t want to spend time with their dad, I’m not sure how to get around it on Christmas without him totally missing out on Christmas morning. Any suggestions?
Anonymous says
In your particular situation, wouldn’t inviting him be a recipe for guaranteed disaster?
Anon says
In a more normal co-parenting situation, I think joint holidays are really nice and not confusing for the kids. I don’t think elementary schoolers are going to think their parents are back together because they’re sharing a meal on Thanksgiving or opening presents on Christmas morning. It might be confusing if a parent slept over (even in separate rooms) but I don’t think a parent showing up for dinner like Grandma or any other relative confuses the kids into thinking their parents are getting back together.
In your situation though, I would not invite him.
So Anon says
Thank you!
farrleybear says
I agree with this. My ex and I have shared some holiday stuff post-divorce (eg, for Halloween we both took him trick or treating, and I did Christmas eve at ex’s parents with kiddo). I second that overnights can be confusing and to be avoided. Our split is pretty recent so I imagine this will probably become less frequent in the future but who knows. But don’t let him guilt-trip you into it!
Anonymous says
You absolutely cannot share holidays with him!!! Honestly you know this I know. Idk why a custody agreement would ever be this vague? He gets Christmas Eve, you get Christmas Day, divide it up. It is none of your concern whether he is lonely, your concern is whether you are following your parenting plan or not.
Anon says
Yeah, I’m not a family lawyer but “try to share time” seems like a truly bizarre thing to put in a custody agreement. The entire point of a custody agreement is to spell out precisely how you share time, because even the most amicable divorced couples can’t always agree on how to split up time with their kids.
Anonymous says
So, this is what happens when you get divorced. One year he misses Christmas morning. The next year you do. Ditto for thanksgiving. If your parenting plan doesn’t address holidays your lawyer did a bad job.
Anonymous says
I believe OP was pro se?
Anonymous says
Oh gosh really? Well. There is a reason that’s a bad idea.
So Anon says
Our Agreement provides that the children are with me all of the time, except every other weekend during the day, so he does not have any holidays outright. And yes, I filed pro se, and had multiple family law attorneys help out behind the scenes. He is not capable of having holidays on his own – last Thanksgiving precipitated one of the many crises.
Anonymous says
Well, you agreed to try to share time on holidays so I would figure out how to share time on holidays without doing them together as a family. I’m still shocked you didn’t take any of our good advice to hire a lawyer. This is exactly what happens when you don’t.
Anon says
I don’t think it was crazy of her to go pro se. You can use up all of the family money really quickly in a divorce and that wouldn’t leave her in a better place. She has a great agreement now. She has the kids and he doesn’t. Anything she offers him is gravy to him. She has no obligation to offer him anything the way I read it.
As far as jointly doing stuff, I only recommend parents do that on neutral territory and for things like a kid’s birthday party somewhere public or trick or treating. Also, kid’s events like school concerts and plays. You should be able to interact with each other enough to both be able to attend an event for the kid but that doesn’t mean you need to have the other in your home.
So Anon says
Correct. There is no obligation to do anything. I am trying to figure out what is best for the kids and for me.
Anonanonanon says
I missed this before I posted a reply below.
I still think you need to firm up the agreement more beyond “try to share time”. Either way, make a plan for this year now.
Personally, I’d propose something along the lines of: ” You are welcome to pick up the children at 3:30 and take them out for dessert and bring them back at 5 PM. I’ve looked into it, and here’s a couple of places nearby that are open that they would enjoy”
Then, you have the kids out of the house to clean up, they’re in a neutral place (dessert spot), and will be home in short order.
SC says
Was he trying to handle last Thanksgiving alone, or were you still married? (Forgive me, I’ve followed your story, but I don’t have a solid timeline in my head.) If he was still living with you a year ago, that suggests he can’t handle holidays at all. It doesn’t sound like anything has changed, so I would default to “He can’t handle holidays,” not just, “He can’t handle holidays on his own.” Don’t involve him in your holiday plans. Don’t set yourself up for stress and anger or the kids up for disappointment and the whole family up for another crisis. I know that sounds harsh to him, but you need to focus on your kids and then yourself.
As a backup, I’d go with meeting in a neutral place with an activity, possibly on the weekend before the holiday and not on the actual holiday itself (assuming he’s not already seeing the kids that weekend). Arranging something the weekend before the holiday could take the pressure off everyone, so if things don’t go well, there’s less emotional fall-out. It would also mean the precedent is less important, and if you decide to do something different next year, it will carry less emotional weight for everyone, especially the kids.
So Anon says
Thank you for your gentle response! That’s a good point – we were still married last Thanksgiving, though the writing was on the wall and I did not yet know about the OW. We did the holiday together at my family’s cabin, and I returned home on Friday afternoon and he was supposed to come home with the kids Saturday evening. He came home at 9am on Saturday, saying that having the kids was too much and made him feel like he was a threat to his own life. That was the last time he was alone with the kids for more than 8 hours or overnight. I am realizing that he cannot handle the holidays at all.
Buble says
It is NOT your problem that your ex is alone on the holidays, and it is very important that you let your kids know that it is not THEIR problem either, as he will (intentionally or not) probably try to put that same burden on them.
My situation growing up with divorced parents was that my home with my mom was my “real” home, and I visited with my dad. Well, as a result, any holiday I spent with him was away from my “home,” and I felt lonely and sad. Honestly, I just wanted to spend every holiday with my mom. So, from that perspective, I would minimize the time your kids have to spend “away” with your ex, and maximize their time with you.
On the guilt thing, yes, my dad let it be known that I was his only family, because he was not remarried. Looking back, that was COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE for a nine-year-old child to be worrying about — “If I don’t go visit Dad, he’ll spend Christmas alone!” I think maybe my mom talking to me about those feelings would have been helpful. (And obviously my dad not guilting me about it, but OP can’t really do anything about that, except maybe talk to her ex about the issue explicitly and try to address it and make him see that it would be wrong to burden the kids with that.)
In short: he will totally miss out on Christmas morning some years. (Ideally, to be honest, all years.) Oh well. That is the price of getting divorced. He can make his own Christmas traditions with the kids at another time. Or not. Life’s tough. In order of priority, here is who you, OP, need to care about: (1) your kids (2) your kids (3) your kids (4) you…………. (5) your ex.
So Anon says
Thank you, this is a really helpful response.
Anon says
Same thing with my childhood, just reverse the genders (my dad had custody).
Cannot agree more on the thing about not guilting your children, and helping your kids to cope with inappropriate parental guilt trips.
Anon says
I would have loved to have joint holidays instead of getting on a plane to my noncustodial parent every Christmas morning. I had a great custodial parent and I didn’t want to go to my noncustodial parent, who couldn’t keep me feeling as safe and loved as my custodial parent, but was overall ok.
However, in your situation, I think it’s better to just trade off. Kids open some gifts at your place and some at his. Thanksgiving lunch at one place and dinner at the other. Or trade off years for each holiday. They get good memories with you and spend a few hours that may be good or not good with the noncustodial parent. Having him over seems like it would guarantee that the whole holiday isn’t so good.
Anon says
I just saw that you have no obligation to split the time. In that case, I like the idea of offering a very limited window to do something on neutral turf only if your ex behaves appropriately and isn’t under the influence. What’s happening with the rest of his time is his responsibility alone.
Anonymous says
What about arranging an outing on neutral territory on Christmas afternoon? Meet up at the movies, or the museum, or the botanical garden. If he doesn’t show, you and the kids still have a fun outing. If he does show, he gets well-defined time with the kids that doesn’t risk ruining the whole holiday.
lsw says
I think this sounds like a great compromise. If he can’t handle a holiday with the kids without you, then he just doesn’t get to see them Christmas morning.
Also I have no idea if you do Santa or are in love with Santa, but we don’t do Santa and this has made holiday flexibility way easier. (It’s not why we didn’t do Santa but it’s a nice side benefit.)
Anon says
I think this is the best solution for OP. That way, if he doesn’t show, you and your kids can still enjoy the activity, and if he does show, the time is limited to the duration of the activity.
So Anon says
This is a great idea! Thank you!
Anonanonanon says
Honestly, as someone who has lived through a situation similar to yours, I don’t advise this. Stop trying to have a family holiday. That’s gone. You need to set boundaries now. You can always choose to be flexible later, but if you start this this year, you’re going to have a hard time explaining why you’re not proposing it next year if it turns out to be miserable.
Buble says
Yeah, I also see problems with the “family outing” suggestion. If the ex is unreliable, the onus should be completely on him to make something happen — he comes to OP’s house, picks up the kids, takes them for a few hours to spend time together on the holiday, and brings them back. If he can’t be trusted to safely handle them for a few hours, it’s not appropriate for OP to act as “supervised” visitation, there needs to be official supervised visitation set up. And obviously, if he never shows up, all the better — Christmas Day at Mom’s is uninterrupted.
Anon says
I also see a problem with the premise that if he doesn’t show you still have a fun outing. Unless the idea is that he will be a surprise to the kids at the outing (which would be weird for other reasons) if you do an outing he is supposed to come to and he doesn’t show, I don’t see how that doesn’t make the outing sad for the kids. Unless you know their personalities to be otherwise. (Or maybe him not showing isn’t the concern, I note that was brought up by a commenter, not OP).
lsw says
My stepdaughter does Christmas Eve with her mom and my husband picks her up Christmas morning with my son in the car while I make waffles. That works really well for us (we are in the same city). The only compromise is that this means every year we spend Christmas the days with his family. His older sister spends Christmas Eve with her mother, so we spend the later part of Christmas Day with his dad and sisters and their families. Not a huge bummer, we just always have my family celebration on a different day. A nice part of this is that we always have Christmas morning just our family. Not sure how this will work when my son gets older, but he can wait for present opening until his big sis gets home!
For Thanksgiving, I honestly can’t remember if we’ve always had our stepdaughter or not. We usually work this out with her mom. I think we’ve done every other year, unless one of us has some special reason why she should spend the holiday with one or the other.
We don’t really celebrate any other holidays. Halloween she trick or treats with whichever parent she is with that evening.
SD is 13, son is 3, we’ve been together since 2010 (SD was 4) and done some version of balancing this since then.
Anonanonanon says
As someone else who got divorced and came up with a parenting plan through mediation only, I am still a bit flabbergasted at how vague your agreement is. I know sometimes you just have to get out and work out the rest later, though. My agreement has certainly had areas we have to go back and renegotiate.
If you can face it, you need to mediate a holiday schedule. You can’t do this every year. It’s not fair to the kids to not give a definitive answer of what they can expect.
A piece of (maybe seems harsh if you haven’t lived it) advice- We alternate Christmas day. Take special note of that wording: “Christmas Day”. He didn’t catch this at the time, but this means that my son still sleeps at my house on Christmas Eve and wakes up to open gifts at my house before going to his dad around 8 AM. He’s also back that evening technically (usually I let him sleep at his dad’s so he doesn’t have to immediately leave his gifts behind, but that’s up to my discretion). We alternate thanksgiving and Easter day as well. He gets to be with the respective parent on Mother’s and Father’s day, too. Outside of that, holidays happen wherever he happens to be.
Anyway, to your actual question instead of my unsolicited advice, you 100% do not owe him anything for the holidays. Look out for signs he’s trying to guilt-trip the children as well. Part of being divorced is missing holidays sometimes, he can learn to deal with it like literally millions of other Americans do. You’re going to be a stressed-out miserable cranky mess if you try to include him, and part of why we divorce men like that is because our kids deserve a better version of us than that. Stay strong.
ALC says
My back is starting to really hurt from picking up and carrying my 3-month old all day (I’m still on leave). Any suggestions for relief? Thank you!
Redux says
Do you babywear? I found keeping my baby in a wrap better distributed the weight burden and really helped with the back pain. My fave was a moby wrap, but you should go try a bunch on.
Anonymous says
I find this is really common with first time moms. It’s like you have to build mommy strength in your back/shoulders as baby picks up weight. Plus your core is out of sorts from pregnancy. Baby wearing and time will help!
Annie says
If you can arrange for an hour of childcare once a week four PT sessions would probably totally fix it and set you up really well for the next year. I try to do stuff on my own but a good physical therapist is just going to set things up much much better.
avocado says
This depends heavily on the quality of the PT. My daughter has been referred to PT twice for sports injuries. The first place was completely ineffective. We wasted so much money and time for zero results. They acted as if the goal was to keep her in PT as long as possible so they could keep billing, not to help her recover from the injury. The second time around, I insisted on taking her to the sports PT center affiliated with our highly ranked local med school, which also served the university’s D1 varsity teams. She saw dramatic improvement after the very first visit, they didn’t demand multiple visits per week like the local place had, and she was fully recovered and back in action within a short time. I will never mess around with any other PT again, for any member of the family.
rosie says
I agree that quality of care varies, but that’s not unique to PT (and Annie did say a good physical therapist). I’d ask around for recs in your area, and don’t be afraid to stop going after a session or two if it just doesn’t seem like you’re on track. It is abysmal that core & pelvic floor strength during and after pregnancy is not more of a focus. I suffered through really weird back pain during my first pregnancy and eventually got (good) PT once I was back at work, now I’m making PT a priority to try to be more proactive about my own health.
Irish Midori says
Same as rosie. I just went to PT for the first time this week for some intense back pain in my third trimester, and he confirmed my suspicions that it wasn’t really pregnancy-related at the core, which means it’s not going to magically go away after the baby is born. For me, he identified that I’m very dominant on one side, which I tend to accentuate under stress. Recent work stress plus baby stress plus increased physical vulnerability due to pregnancy brought to a head what was an underlying mild scoliosis. Fortunately, bringing it to a head forced me to address it. He gave me some specific exercises and strategies to counter how I favor my dominant side, which hopefully will correct and avoid bigger problems down the road.
Anonymous says
I’d do some strength training at home. A three month old baby isn’t that heavy, so it will only get worse. I lost TONS of strength in pregnancy from all the hormones. The only way I got it back was by building muscle through exercise.
anon says
Get a massage now to work out the worst kinks, then make a point of stretching/doing light yoga daily.
Elle says
Another gift question…
How do you handle gifts to cousins (i.e. our nieces and nephews) when you have divorced grandparents/blended families?
It’s my husband’s parents who are divorced, so my input is very little on the situation, but looking for others experiences. We have Christmas with my MIL and SIL which includes our kids and SIL’s kids. Then we also have Christmas with my FIL, same SIL and two other SIL (step and half sister of my husband and SIL) and their kids.
At the “larger” Christmas, we draw names for the cousins. Because of that, I feel like it’s weird that we get my SIL’s kids gifts at the “smaller”Christmas with my MIL. So, if we draw those kids names for the larger Christmas, we’re getting them two gifts where as we don’t separately buy gifts for the other cousins. Hopefully this example makes sense. My MIL goes overboard with gifts (despite our requests or suggestions), so it’s not like our kids or their cousins aren’t getting any gifts at the “smaller” Christmas.
I don’t know that I can change anything with how we operate because it’s not “my” side of the family but I’m just wondering if people think this is weird or if it’s just me. Or if perhaps there are other ways we should operate in terms of gift giving due to the multiple holidays with overlapping people.
SC says
My husband’s parents are also divorced. He has one biological sibling, plus 2 step-siblings on each side. We have separate Christmas celebrations with gift exchanges for both sides. We only buy one gift for his sister’s child, and they only buy one for us. We discuss ahead of time which event to bring those gifts to. (There’s no drawing names/Secret Santa element to it for now, though.)
I think you should suggest to your husband that he just ask your SIL whether they want to exchange presents at MIL’s. If they do, or if your DH doesn’t even want to bring it up, I suggest going with the flow. I’ve had years when I’ve thought, “I really wish we could move to Secret Santa,” or “I really wish we just gave gifts to the kids,” but it wasn’t my place to bring it up, and DH wasn’t ready to suggest a new tradition. Fortunately for me, within a year or two, another sibling has made the same suggestion, and the siblings agreed among themselves, and I didn’t have to be the in-law pushing a family to change their gift-giving and Christmas-celebrating ways. (Even if nothing ever changes, I still suggest this approach.)
Elle says
Thanks! I’m the oldest and the take charge one on my side, so going with the flow is hard, but is what I’m currently doing. I will probably suggest that he ask his sister if she’d just want to do the one secret santa and only do gifts with MIL at the “smaller” Christmas. If it’s a no, no big deal. But plant the seed.
Glad to see I’m not the only one in this situation though. I mean, obviously it exists, but most of the advice about divorced parents doesn’t take into account this sibling overlap scenario.
Anon. says
Can you and SIL agree to rig the Secret Santa drawing?
Elle says
Ha!
Anonymous says
Can you discuss with SIL about doing two smaller presents so they have something to open at each grandparent’s celebration? Like book and puzzle or stuffed toy and zoo tickets? Or a tradition of a book swap with SIL at the FIL’s celebration – they will get gifts from the SSIL at that celebration so it’s not such a big deal if the main present is opened at MIL and a book is opened at FIL.
Anonymous says
Does Hanna Andersson ever go higher than 40% off? Like on black friday, or after christmas go to 50%?
ElisaR says
sometimes if you go to the outlet store you can get more than 40% off – in my experience that’s the only way though.
Anon says
Yes, but usually only on clearance and less popular items and only like 1-2x a year (I think I stocked up on out of season basics in a size up at 70% off once). But their “regular” sales are usually only 20-30%, so I would take 40% and run with it.
anon says
Another question about conspicuous consumption …
My mom has this Little People nativity set that DD loves loves loves. I wanted to buy it for her last Christmas, but it was sold out and third-party vendors were $$$. Well, it’s now available for $25. I reallly want to get it, but she just turned 5 and there’s a chance she’ll be completely over it by next year, right? If she didn’t already love it so much, I wouldn’t consider buying it. If it matters, she is all about her Little People collections.
Anonymous says
I would get it. We still use ours because I let the kids play with it re-arrange it and I don’t want them touching the family heirloom one on the mantel.
Anon says
you can totally disagree with me on this one, but is there any circumstance in which you could give it to her prior to christmas so she can use it all December long to get excited for christmas? yes, i realize this contributes to the problem of giving out gifts at random…
anon says
I probably would give it to her early. We usually give toys only for birthdays/Christmas, but I would make an exception for this.
Anonymous says
Get it.
Buble says
I’ll push back a little and say that sometimes the fun of loving something at Grandma’s is the fact that it’s only at Grandma’s and it’s special. And that kids loving something doesn’t mean they need to own their own copy of it.
It’s sort of like the story of the child who loves her special stuffed kitty cat, so you get her five more stuffed kitty cats, and suddenly none of the kitties are special or interesting anymore.
It’s really sweet and exciting when our children love something, and it’s natural to want to encourage and indulge that. But sometimes it’s counterproductive, or at least unnecessary — there are probably a lot of other fun holiday decorations and toys at your home already that she can get excited about.
anon says
Is your mom nearby/do you see her often? If so, I probably wouldn’t get it (or wouldn’t feel compelled, if I were you). But if Grandma is a one week out of a year kind of thing, I would get it and give it to her at Thanksgiving.
Irish Midori says
Get it.