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Although Boden is known for its fun, bright prints, I’m actually drawn to their solid-colored tailored dresses. In the Before Times, I used to wear dresses nearly every day. In the After Times to come, I’m looking forward to refreshing my wardrobe with something like the Natalie Ponte Dress.
I like the stretchy fabric, flattering gathered waist, and smart cap sleeves. The Natalie — along with all of Boden’s lightweight ponte jersey fabric dresses — is also machine washable. It comes in three office-appropriate colors (black, maroon, and navy) that’ll pair well with a contrasting suit jacket for a more formal look or a fine-textured cardigan for something more casual.
The dress is on sale for $65 (marked down from $130) and currently available in sizes 2–6/18 (depending on the color), and petite, regular, and long fits. Natalie Ponte Dress
Sales of note for 3.28.24
(See all of the latest workwear sales at Corporette!)
- Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off your full-price purchase; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything plus extra 20% off purchase
- Eloquii – 50% off 2+ items; 40% off 1
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- Lands’ End – 10% off your order
- Loft – 50% off everything
- Nordstrom: Give $150 in gift cards, earn a $25 promo card (ends 3/31)
- Talbots – 40% off 1 item; 25% off everything else
- Zappos – 37,000+ women’s sale items! (check out these reader-favorite workwear brands on sale, and some of our favorite kids’ shoe brands on sale)
Kid/Family Sales
- Carter’s – 50% off entire site
- Hanna Andersson – 30% off all swim; up to 30% off HannaJams
- J.Crew Crewcuts – 40% off sitewide; 50% off select swim; 50% off kids’ styles
- Old Navy – 50% off Easter deals
- Target – 20% off Easter styles for all; up to 30% off kitchen & dining; BOGO 50% off shoes & slippers for the family;
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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- If you’re a working parent of an infant with low sleep needs, how do you function at work when you’re in the throes of baby’s sleep regression?
- Should I cut my childcare down to 12 hours a month if I work from home?
- Will my baby have speech delays if we raise her bilingual?
- Has anyone given birth in a teaching hospital?
- My child eats everything, and my friends’ kids do not – how should I handle? In general, what is the best way to handle when your child has some skill/ability and your friend’s child doesn’t have that skill/ability?
- ADHD moms, give me your tips to help with things like behavior in the classroom, attention to detail, etc?
- I think I suffer from mom rage…
- My husband and kids are gone this weekend – how should I enjoy my free time?
- I’m struggling to be compassionate with a SAHM friend who complains she doesn’t have enough hours of childcare.
- If you exclusively formula fed, what tips do you have for in the hospital and coming home?
- Could I take my 4-yo and 8-yo on a 7-8 day trip to Paris, Lyon, and Madrid?
Letting Go of Stress says
Last week was really stressful for me. Work was crazy. I was solo-parenting outside of daycare hours. DH was exposed to COVID (we are symptom free and awaiting test results while quarantining). All the events in the news.
I was hoping this week I would be feeling better, but I’m having a really hard time letting go of all that stress and feeling recharged.
Does anyone have meditations or maybe some journal prompts that they find helpful in this situation? Or anything else for that matter.
Exercise is only helping for a couple hours, and then I go right back to feeling like garbage. In the beforetimes, I would take an afternoon to myself and get a massage or my nails done. At home spa days aren’t really cutting it because I’m still surrounded by the source of my stress.
AwayEmily says
Cute dress. Non-dress-related question — what are your favorite Very Warm Outdoor leggings? I have a pair of LL Bean Primaloft ones, and they are amazing for outdoor days in the winter (hikes, etc). I went to order a second pair and they are sold out. Any similar pairs people can recommend?
Anon says
I like UnderArmour’s cold gear line.
Anon says
Underarmor cold gear leggings. I use them as long underwear when skiing (and have for two decades) and by themselves for cold weather walks. Good Housekeeping ran this article a few weeks ago that has some other options: https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/clothing/g28649051/fleece-lined-leggings/
Anonymous says
+1, I have two pairs, one of them is like 11 years old. My coat goes to mid-thigh so these are good for cold days. But if I lived in an extremely cold place in the winter I would probably need 2 layers on the bottom.
AwayEmily says
Thanks! These Underarmour ones look perfect.
anon says
Last week I bought a fleece-lined pair at Old Navy that seem very warm.
Anonymous says
I have some Pearl Izumi fleece lined cycling leggings that are fantastic.
Tweeter says
My 2+3 month old son still sleeps on his crib in a wearable blanket and no pillow. He sleeps fine all through the night and has for years. I plan to keep him on the crib as long as possible on the advice of friends. Any benefit to adding a pillow or other blanket? If so, is there a specific toddler brand pillow that is popular? Thanks!
Anonymous says
I think there’s no benefit to adding those things unless 1) he asks or 2) he seems like he needs them (eg., is waking up cold in the middle of the night or something like that). My 3 year old has never used a pillow. We sent one in to daycare because it was on their list of “required items” and they sent it home with a note that said “[Name] is just playing with the pillow and not using it for its intended purpose.”
Pogo says
actually lol’d
Anonymous says
The same could be said about 3 year olds and so many things, right!?
Anonymous says
IKEA makes a small ‘cot’ pillow that we added around that age and they usually had a small blanket to cozy with too.
FP says
Recommend this. It’s fairly flat but also kind of trained our 2.5 year old to keep his head on a pillow, so that when we moved him into a bed he wasn’t flopping all over the place.
Boston Legal Eagle says
My youngest is the same age and he hasn’t tried to climb out, luckily, so we’re keeping him in the crib as long as possible. He’s got a sleep sack with the feet out and has a light blanket, with one of those small toddler pillows. He seems to like the blanket and it could be a good transition for the bed, although it’s probably fine even if you don’t do this.
Tweeter says
Thank you all! Yes, was considering if this will help for an eventual transition to a bed. Much to consider. I appreciate!
Genetic reproduction risk says
What would you personally consider to be unacceptably high reproductive risk for a genetic condition? 1/100, 1/500, 1/1000….etc.?
My partner and I will need to use donor sperm to conceive. Due to our specific case (CMV status, RH factor, and other considerations) our options for donors are limited in number, and COVID seems to have affected availability further. One new donor popped up at our bank this week, who meets all of our specific case needs but also our “wants” too. He has expanded carrier screening of almost 300 genetic conditions, and is a carrier of classic congenital adrenal hyperplasia. Though this is a disorder that is screened for immediately after birth and treatable, it is severe and can affect growth, future fertility of child, and requires life-long care. It does not limit the lifespan or cause profound physical disability or affect intellectual development, but it is serious and gives me pause.
In Canada, where we are located, our doc has indicated there is no carrier screening company, nor health institution, that offers testing of the specific gene in question for our situation. We would have to pursue this by sending a sample abroad at exorbitant out of pocket cost. The carrier screening the donor had in the States is not offered to Canadians. So we are blind regarding my own carrier status for this. In the general population about 1/60 people are carriers, and I am not part of an ethnic group with higher incidences. This leaves us a ~1/240 chance our child would be affected with CAH if we used the donor who is a carrier. This strikes me as relatively low risk, and I have a genetic counselling appointment booked for Friday, but am wondering what the Hive thinks of that number and if anyone has dealt with similar considerations in their journey to conceive.
It’s interesting because of course most couples who conceive naturally do not get carrier screening, so would not even know about such a risk even if one did exist. And not all donors get expanded screening either – many are not even tested for this condition and so again we would not know about such a risk even if it existed. But now that we know I am having trouble wrapping my head around handling the information.
Anon says
Has anyone done Glacier National Park with toddlers/preschoolers? Did you feel like there was enough stuff you could see from the car or on short, easy hikes? I’m thinking ahead to summer vacation and trying to keep expectations low by assuming not much will have changed on the Covid front, so an outdoors area where we can stay in a private cabin seems like the safest option. But we’re definitely not “throw the kids in carriers and hike 10 miles” people and I wonder if we’ll feel like we’re missing out by being limited by what 3 year olds can do.
Anonymous says
How long are you planning on being at the park? I haven’t done Glacier since having kids, but I’ve backpacked there before they were born. I think with every National Park you’re always going to miss out by not hiking/exploring more, but Glacier is beautiful even from the road. The Going the Sun Road runs through the park and is literally the most amazing drive I’ve ever been on. It sometimes opens late in the season, so I’d try to plan your trip around it being open. There are also some beautiful short hikes, though you probably would still want a carrier for those if your toddler is anything like mine. You can also do boat tours which could be fun with a toddler. I probably wouldn’t plan a weeklong trip there with young kids, but a few days could be a lot of fun if you’re looking for a lowkey schedule.
Anon says
I am screaming into the abyss along with you!
Anon says
Wrong thread haha!
Anonymous says
Following with interest– my parents want this to be a big family vacation next summer (’22), but I’m not sure it’s worth the logistics of getting there with three kids under 7 if we can only do the (presumably crowded) shorter, easier hikes.
Anon says
We went with three kids when I was 8 or 9, so my youngest sister would have been 2 or 3. I remember it being a lot of fun (my parents are NOT hikers), and we had a cooler so it must have been a shorter hike. My vivid memories are the water was SO COLD so not that much fun to play in other than ankle deep, the deer had very fluffy white tails (the first time I had seen a deer I think) and a chipmunk ran across my foot (the things you remember!), but we were also staying with family nearby so it was a day trip kind of excursion. I don’t know that there would have been enough to do for a longer visit, but this was also over 2 decades ago.
Anon for this says
Semi-regular primal scream due to the frustrations of extended crisis parenting.
One kiddo had a stuffy nose. I decided to keep kiddo home to see if it turned into anything else. Nope, need a COVID test to be allowed back into school. And oh, because I have a kid with a pending test, I had to pull the other kids from daycare. Spouse is an essential worker who is out of town on an extended work trip (extra extended because of COVID…) Can’t have our ONE support person in the house because… Pending COVID test.
Because it was so last minute, I still have time sensitive work to do. And that’s the story of how I’m sitting at the table attempting to pull together a document that’s due at 12:30 with a 2 year old who is in their birthday suit (and totally resistant to any other outfit) screaming ‘PLAY DOHHHH’ after I JUST set up coloring/stickers for her. Bless the baby who is laughing at the ‘floor show’ of her older sister screaming and the oldest kid who is happily watching a movie. This is hard. Today I’m not loving any of it.
oil in houston says
many virtual hugs. this too shall pass ….
AwayEmily says
I hear you. While I understand the rules, they can be really frustrating. They have free asymptomatic testing where I live and I wanted to take my kids since I was getting one. But no — if there is a pending COVID test (even if the kid is completely asymptomatic!), you can’t send them back until you get the results.
Anonymous says
That’s crazy…what about people who are tested weekly for work?
Boston Legal Eagle says
We have the same rule on pending Covid tests – I assumed there was an exception for health care workers and others tested regularly but I’m not sure. We’ve been lucky to have testing sites come available where results are back by early the next morning.
Anon says
i was talking to a preschool for admission next year and they said that they would have a note in your file if you are tested weekly for work and you wouldn’t be considered someone awaiting a covid test result
AwayEmily says
It’s only if the kid has a pending test result, not the parent.
No Face says
So rough! Hopefully you can get through your time-sensitive work.
Please feel free to use screen time, sweets, or whatever else in in your arsenal to get through this!
Pogo says
Too relatable. All the hugs. and coffee.
Boston Legal Eagle says
All the hugs and commiseration. This sucks. The uncertainty of childcare is so difficult and unless your coworkers are in it too (most of mine are childless or with a SAH spouse… great), they just don’t get it, and it feels as if you’re not doing enough work when you’re actually doing two jobs – your paid one AND the childcare and housework. And the usual advice to get help is not useful now. And people wonder why women are dropping out of the workforce in droves…
Permission to have the TV on all day granted.
anon says
+1. Working parents, especially moms, have been gaslighted this entire pandemic. It makes me see red.
So Anon says
All the virtual hugs. This is really hard. I think it is easy to forget that we are still in the midst of crisis parenting and living. I will join you in the semi-regular primal scream.
Anonanonanon says
All the hugs. those days are just awful and it seems there are always a few no matter how hard we try to have options in place.
Agree with another commenter- all day TV permission granted! My kids will temporarily leave me alone if popsicles are involved and I sometimes do baked goods (from mix!) because I tell my kids if they make noise while the brownies are in the oven they’ll be ruined. Or it will ‘break the brownies” for my 2-year-old. 50% success rate but at least I can hide with brownies later in the day if it didn’t work
AnonATL says
I’m stuck in mod with a similar post, and I’m just so damn tired.
I can’t shake all the stuff that has happened in our household in the past two weeks.
OP says
Thank you all for the support and commiseration. I made it through – crushed the deliverable and managed to get through the meeting unscathed.
Was my 2 year old sitting in a lawn chair at my feet wearing no pants (but we got a sweatshirt on at least?) and a firefighter helmet while watching a show on her tablet? Yes. Yes she was. At least it wasn’t a video call.
For sanity, at some point this afternoon I strapped all my kids in the car and drove around and then proceeded to take 2 calls from the car while my kids all slept in the backseat. I parked in the airport ‘cellphone waiting lot’ and it was honestly the most peaceful time I’ve had in a while.
2 Cents says
Sounds like you made the absolute best out of a supremely crappy situation. All the hugs from another toddler mom who is grateful no one sees what her DS wears most days…
Anonymous says
You are supermom!! Wow
Anon says
+1 excellent work!
Anon says
Long post. Looking for advice on picking school for DD who will enter kindergarten in the fall. We’re in one of those areas in the Midwest where you’re always a stone’s throw away from a Catholic Church. We’re right in the middle of 3. For now, DH wants to try one of the parochial schools (may look at public schools in the future depending on DD’s needs).
School A – 10 minutes from house and in district (so there’s bus service). Also near DS’s daycare. School where I grew up so we know some families. The catch is my sister’s boyfriend’s son would be in the same class. Sister and her bf both went through high profile divorces that was the scandal of the area. Sister and I are cordial but not close though her kids occasionally babysit. Even though we aren’t close I could see her picking up DD in case of emergency or if one of her high schoolers were babysitting (no other local family to help). But I’m reluctant to feel attached to her drama (it’s part of why we stopped going to church prepandemic anyway). And her boyfriend’s son is neurotypical and DD is not. Kind of don’t want to deal with the constant comparisons. But am I discounting the benefit of having someone who could occasionally pick up kid? I don’t know. DH understands but would prefer this school if it weren’t for the associated drama.
School B is also 10 minutes away. We don’t know any families there.
School C is 15 minutes away and another family on our street goes there. It is in a ritzy area of town that can be hard for outsiders but we do know a number of families with older kids in that school.
Any thoughts appreciated. I don’t want to let my feelings get in the way but I also don’t want to run into my sister for the next decade at school and feel lumped in with her divorce drama (that she brought on herself).
anne-on says
Do they all have similar services for non-neurotypical children? Even among private schools those services/support can vary wildly, so I would look into that very closely and have that be my main lever of decision making.
Anonymous says
+1 I’ve never been to Catholic school, but the focus on the parent group social stuff is misplaced imo. Research what they can do for your kid and go from there.
anon op says
Good point. It’s hard to tell because all the schools claim to (because they want your money). DH used to be on the board for School A so he believes they will do a good effort of meeting DD’s needs. I’ve heard anecdotally that School C’s K program is academically hard (I know two families whose kids went there and then they repeated K in the public school system), so that may eliminate that one.
Anon says
it is impossible to know from your post exactly what DD’s needs are – but that should be the focus of this. What does it mean they will “do a good effort of meeting DD’s needs”? i think you need more explicit information from all the schools on how they would go about meeting her needs. the drama with your sister sounds exhausting (i’m so sorry this happened) and almost makes me think of Big Little Lies
anon op says
Thanks. It’s hard to characterize DD’s needs because she’s still young and we don’t quite know! She has a genetic condition likely to be associated with various challenges (but different kids with it present differently). We have her in a number of private therapies. She’s showing evidence of future issues but will likely not meet the diagnostic criteria for a few years. On her evaluations with the public school, she consistently scores right below the cut off for services. Public school district has made clear until we get a diagnosis or unless her scores drop (which we’re in private therapy to avoid), she won’t receive services. And yes, I understand the differences between 504 and IEP but bc of where she is now, we feel like we’d likely see similar modifications in public 504 vs private unless things change and she qualifies for an IEP.
Spirograph says
Yes, I’d leave aside the adult drama for now, and my first step would be to talk to each of the schools. Describe your daughter, her challenges, and the therapies she is in. Even without a diagnosis, the school should be able to describe to you their approach to dealing with kids who are not neurotypical or have different needs, and ideally how they have served kids who presented similar characteristics. I would assume that part of their admission process would be having one of the K teachers meet with your daughter, and it might be helpful for you to debrief with that teacher afterward as well. After all of that, I’m sure you’ll get a gut feel from all of these whether or not they are people you can work with.
Spirograph says
ETA, I’m sorry for my phrasing, “dealing with” above; that should say “serving.” I have an ADHD kid and should know better! I didn’t mean to imply non-neurotypical children have problems that need to be solved rather than differences that need a different approach.
anon says
I have a kiddo with ADHD and this would be the first question I’d be asking. The parochial schools around here (also Midwest) talk a good talk during the recruitment process, but from my limited perspective, do very little in the way of support when it comes down to it. One of DS’s friends with ADHD had a terrible time with parochial schooling and was back in the public school the next school year.
Knowing how Midwest divorce drama works, I would not touch School A with a ten-foot pole.
Pogo says
Just want to say we recently had divorce drama among our friend group and I don’t think you’re overreacting by considering it. I never would have thought that until it happened to people close to us and the ripple effects are real.
Anon says
I sent my kids to a parochial preschool and then pulled them out and sent to public schools for kindergarten and beyond. While both of my kids are neurotypical, the services offered at the parochial school were not sufficient for other kids, which caused problems within the classrooms. Also, while it wasn’t my family involved, we had some similar “drama” that was, imho, overly discussed by parents and faculty. The public school is bigger and more diverse and has a better aptitude to identify and address family issues without making it into a scandal. And of course, at the end of the day, I wanted my kids to grow up with a diverse friend set. The parochial schools in our area are overwhelmingly white and well-off, and I didn’t want that to be “normal” for my kids.
Mary Moo Cow says
I’m a current parent of a kid in catholic school and probably because of the pandemic, parent interaction is zero. I don’t see this really relaxing until maybe winter 2022. Unfortunately for me, since I want to make parent friends! But if your potential school is the same, it might buy some time to get integrated into the community on your own standing. Drama should lessen with time.
I would go with Option A, because it’s close to home and daycare, you have an emergency pick up person, you know other families, and you know the school, with the caveat that only if it’s the best fit for your child, academically and socially. If all three schools have the resources to support your child, I would go with A.
Anon says
Assuming all is equal and all are able to provide the same services for your child with equal competency: I’d avoid A like the plague.
Anon says
Adding… this is coming from someone with two sisters. We all live in the same town. We all have 2.9 year olds (major, hysterical, shocking coincidence – all our first children, too) who are neurotypical as far as we are aware at this stage. We deliberately are separating kids in different preschools and beyond until separation isn’t feasible in the public system, likely in the elementary grades. Frankly, we were so competitive with one another growing up. Despite our closeness today we want time to establish separately and not open the door to comparison as the kids naturally grow and develop in school.
anonamama says
Former Catholic schooler myself, recent sideline spectator to divorce drama; I say A or C. Can these schools do an assessment on DD as you’re considering, or does that come once you enroll? Do they offer ‘shadow’ opportunities?
Re: A – does the school have two classes per grade, or one? If two, you may not always have overlap. Good point here that in-person parental interaction will be limited for another year or so. How recent is this divorce drama – will it stand to fizzle out by then?
anon op says
Thanks everyone for your comments and reminding me at the end of the day I need to focus on what the schools themselves can provide. This has been so, so helpful. But I also appreciate that I’m not crazy for being sensitive to the divorce drama. This may out me to anyone who knows but I don’t expect the drama to get better – the divorce was so bad that it caused a rift in my parents marriage and caused them to get divorced after 50 years of marriage. It’s hard enough trying to make sure we’re doing the right therapies and things for our daughter and I just want to be able to focus on her without the associated baggage of being a passive bystander of my family’s issues.
anon says
Oof, that sounds really challenging, OP. I think you’re wise to start with a clean slate, away from any potential family drama. Who needs to be guilty by association when you’re really a bystander who has been deeply affected on a personal level?
Anonymous says
Yikes. With this information, I might cross A off the list entirely. I’m sorry your family went through this and that the fallout sounds like an ongoing challenge.
FVNC says
Just adding — if parochial schools aren’t working out for whatever reason, don’t discount public school services even if your daughter is testing above the threshold for required services. Friends of ours in the midwest have a neurotypical daughter who is behind in reading but within the normal range (very low end of normal). Her parochial school did not have the resources to help her, so her parents switched her to public school. Even with the pandemic, she’s been able to have weekly one-on-one sessions with the dedicated reading specialist and it’s made a huge difference in her ability and confidence. This is a highly regarded, well-funded public school district; I know these resources wouldn’t be available everywhere.
Anon Lawyer says
Some close friends are currently having this issue with their parochial school – which they love – and their borderline ID daughter. The school absolutely wants to help and is well meaning but doesn’t really have the infrastructure or resources in place. They’re going to switch to public next year – though, again, a well-funded, highly-regarded public school so they are lucky to have that option available.
Anonymous says
All of this is weird. It’s just a divorce. She’s your sister. You don’t want your child to associate with their step cousin because step cousin has special needs? This just feels gross.
Anon says
Try reading better comprehension.
Anonymous says
Omg I am endlessly sorry I completely misread this!!!
Anon says
No, the daughter has special needs and she doesn’t want the comparisons to the neurotypical cousin. That part makes sense to me. The divorce thing seems like a huge overreaction though. I live in the Midwest (where apparently divorce is Extremely Scandalous according to someone above!?) and I don’t get why it would be such a big deal. There are lots of divorced parents, including some who have dated their kids’ teachers or kids’ classmates parents, and sometimes those relationships end. People have affairs. People get divorced because someone comes out as gay or trans. I mean yeah, people will 100% gossip about it, but they gossip about everrrrrrything and there will be a new scandal next week. It also sounds like this divorce is in the past, so I’m really confused why everyone at the school would care. My mom always told me something like “nobody cares about your own life as much as you think” (I think it was a slightly more elegant phrasing but I don’t remember it now) and I’ve always found that to be true.
Karry Fisher says
Is it weird to say thank you for maternity leave? I just returned from four months off fully paid at my boutique litigation firm. They have no legal obligation to provide maternity leave – much less paid maternity leave – and I know it was a hardship to be down an attorney for that long. They are progressive, but I thought sending a short grateful email might be helpful to encourage them to keep the policy and/or talk to other firms about it. Weird?
Boston Legal Eagle says
Paid parental leave should be a right, not a gift, so I would frame it more as how beneficial it is for everyone to have such policies, if you’re close to the higher ups. It’s really a win win for everyone – parents have the time they need without worrying about finances (not to mention the benefits for baby!), and firms keep their talented employees longer. To me, it’s like thanking the firm for my vacation or for being paid a salary – I’d like this to be the expectation, not an outlier.
Anonymous says
Know your company, but I think showing gratitude is always appropriate. I expressed appreciation to my boss for supporting me taking maternity leave. I found out I was pregnant in between accepting the offer and actually starting the job, so I was not eligible for my company’s parental leave policy, and she gave me zero grief about taking 4 months and appealed to HR for an exception so that more of it would be paid (which was denied).
A short email acknowledging that people had to pick up the slack and saying how much you appreciated being able to spend that time to recover and care for your new baby — and how paid leave gave you the time and space to get ready to come back to work and be a productive member of the team again — seems like it would strike the right balance of appreciating the support/being a team player while subtly saying this should be codified in policy.
Anonymous says
I like this and think you could combine it with some of Boston Legal Eagle’s suggestions, too. Thank them for having a policy that has shown x, y, and z benefits and then a few comments about what it personally meant to you. But I like the idea of framing it as something that is meant to encourage continuing the policy in the future without coming out and saying that.
Runner says
Awww what a nice thing to hear about! I might send a note. I took an extended maternity leave for my employer — normally people took three months, I took 5.5 — and one of the things I would say all the time when I got back is how ready I was for the work and how excited I was to be back. Tried to subtly make the point that if women are forced to come back too early, the firm pays for that in other ways — lower productivity, resentment, women leaving, etc.
Anon says
I agree that expressing gratitude is always appropriate. Just keep it short and light.
And I wouldn’t try to get all sanctimonious about why maternity leave is beneficial for everyone as Boston Legal suggested – you’re already preaching to the choir. They already get it.
Anonymous says
I agree she should not get too sanctimonious, but I disagree that she’s “preaching to the choir” or that everyone gets the need for generous maternity leave. Many, many people don’t get it. When I came back, several colleagues (including some women) made back-handed remarks about how they wished they too could have a long “vacation” or comments about how my “super long” leave (I had 14 weeks, only slightly more than the minimum guaranteed to me by law) was unnecessary because my husband was also at home for some of it. I’ve participated in some focus groups about being a working mom at my large employer and pretty much all the women (none of whom I knew beforehand or worked with directly) said the same thing happened to them. Even if the employer on an institutional level recognizes the importance of maternity leave, it doesn’t mean most people working at the company do.
Anonymous says
I work for a huge multinational so my opinion matters zero percent to anyone, so I wouldn’t say anything. I suppose at a small company where they would actually listen, it could be a good idea? But I agree to me it’s like vacation and salary… it’s a benefit I expect and I assume they calculate as part of burden rate, not some major kindness they are doing to me as a person because they care.
Anonymous says
I wouldn’t thank anyone for leave. I would thank the people who stepped up to take on work for doing that. “Thank you for advancing XYZ while I was away and taking the time to get me back up to speed.”
Anonymous says
I wonder if “thanking” is the right approach versus acknowledging the value and reiterating it to people. “I continue to be happy at a firm with values that provide for a generous leave…”
Anonymous says
That phrasing is very cringey to me. It sounds like you’re accepting an Academy Award.
Anon says
I would express gratitude, and I would also express how important the extra five weeks of leave are. (FMLA, even if you were eligible, is 12 weeks maximum; 4 months is 17 weeks.) Babies grow and change so much during that time that I think it’s a lot easier to go back to work when the kid is 17 weeks old than when the kid is 12 weeks old.
Natalie Dress says
I am actually wearing this dress right now and I have it in three colors. It has been really flattering throughout COVID weight fluctuations and it washes and holds its shape very well. I highly recommend!
Anonymous says
It’s so pretty! I wish I had somewhere to wear it.
Redux says
I have this dress too and love it!
AnotherAnon says
Another school question. DH and I both attended schools that are rated D or lower by Great Schools. I have a bachelor’s he has a JD. DH has always maintained it doesn’t really matter where you go to school as long as your parents are involved; I tend to agree. We purchased our home a year ago. DH had thirteen very specific criteria and after a year of looking, we lucked into buying a house that met all his criteria because an over-asking-price buyer reneged and we were able to get it for full price. Elementary school is ranked around top 200 in the state. So imagine my surprise yesterday when DH told me the neighboring school is #40, and he thinks we should move to that neighborhood so our kid can go to kindy there next year. This is bonkers, right? I pressed DH this morning on whether he was spitballing or whether he thinks this is actually important/actionable, and he admitted it seems silly but he’s considering buying a rental property in that neighborhood (we could afford that). I just don’t think this is smart or a good use of money. Am I being unreasonable? What are the advantages I’m missing?
Anonymous says
I don’t think it’s crazy to move for better schools, but I also don’t trust those ranking methodologies to accurately identify the best schools.
Anonymous says
This. Our school district is #3 in the state by US News and comes up really top-ranked by other rating systems but Great Schools gives the district’s only elementary school a C and the high school a B. I have no idea where they came up with those letter grades and I don’t feel like they matter.
I also agree with the comment that academics doesn’t matter too much at the elementary level, my main concern would be safety. One exception would be if you have a child who needs more support than normal, whether it’s due to ADHD or giftedness or Autism spectrum or whatever. Then I would want to do more research to try to figure out what school could best meet my kid’s needs (but I’m not convinced that would be closely correlated with the “best” school).
Spirograph says
My vote is for bonkers! Depending on your goals for your kid’s education, school culture probably matters much more than ranking, especially for elementary. Chat with your neighbors; if they’re happy with your current school, if it’s safe and the administration seems in line with your values, the rating and ranking feels kind of irrelevant. Do you want to buy a rental property anyway, or would this be solely to get into the school district? I agree with you that it’s not a good use of money if it’s just to get into the school district, and would keep that factor out of the rental property decision.
Anon says
+1 Parental perspectives are way more trustworthy than any outside rankings (and make sure they are parents in the schools, not just parents who “heard the rumors” and never gave the public school a shot). I am in one of these “not great” districts but the teachers and administrators are really top notch and we are having a great experience. Bad reputations take a long time to die and raising test scores is a long game
Anon says
It would infuriate me though if my husband wanted to move again after only 1 year. I agree that schools are important but it seems like you had already decided that the current elementary school was a good option by buying the house. I am of the opinion that Great Schools rankings are kind of arbitrary and I wouldn’t put any stock into them. If you care about rankings though, high school is the important one to focus on.
OP says
Thanks everyone. I actually messaged a friend who used to live here and she said we can just ask to move elementary schools. It’s not a guarantee, but easier than the lottery in the city and less expensive than moving. I’m open to moving (we’ve moved every year we’ve been married) but don’t see anything amazing on the market rn. Also, I just don’t think ratings matter that much. I don’t think DH does either: I think he’s just spiraling from current events and trying to “do” something productive. Appreciate your perspective as always.
Anonymous says
Look into the methodology of the Great Schools ranking before you make the decision. For instance, see this analysis: https://www.vox.com/videos/2019/12/5/20991778/greatschools-ratings-schools-video-data
Anonymous says
First week at new daycare with our baby. Daycare sends home “expired” bottles of pumped milk at the end of the day. I have to pour these down the drain, right? Not worth the risk of feeding them to baby that night? It’s almost physically painful to trash them.
Cb says
Eh, have they been kept cold the whole time? I’d probably feed them to him tonight.
Anonymous says
This. Also, can you send in frozen milk for day care to thaw as needed so none is wasted? That’s what we did.
Anonymous says
Same. I sent the milk to school in the little cooler, bottles were stored in the daycare fridge, and came home in the cooler again. If they sent home a bottle that had like 1oz left after the baby drank the rest, I’d probably pour that out, but it wasn’t used at all I figured it was the same as if it had been in my fridge at home for the equivalent amount of time.
anon says
Yeah, talk to daycare. We asked that unfinished bottles be put back in the fridge and sent home, so they did that and we fed it to the babies the same night, but I think we were fairly cavalier about such things. For other families, they dumped out the leftovers and sent home clean/empty bottles.
Anonymous says
I read this as full bottles’ being sent home just because they weren’t used that day, not leftovers from partly used bottles?
anon says
Yeah, I think you’re right. Clearly I need to read more carefully.
Anonymous says
OP here. Thanks. We get both back. I definitely keep the ones that haven’t been touched (I send those back the next day), but was more concerned about the partially consumed bottles, since they’ve been warmed up and then re-cooled. I’m thinking we may try to feed them at night, but dump by the morning.
Anon says
If the baby consistently drank around the same amount from each bottle, consider adjusting how much you’re sending in each bottle. Its definitely a trial and error the first couple weeks.
Anonymous says
This. In my experience, a lot will get tossed in the beginning but as you get more used to the routine you’ll know how much to send and there won’t be nearly as much waste.
Anon says
I would save the partially eaten bottle that had expired and dump them in my kid’s bathwater to help his eczema. I realize this makes me sounds like an off the wall hippie but it really is great for skin.
Pogo says
I sent medela storage bottles + actual bottles so they could serve like 4 oz, then see if baby wanted more, instead of sending pre-made bottles of 6 oz or whatever. Can you do that?
GCA says
Full and unused bottles of pumped milk: just re-send them.
Partially consumed bottles: totally normally for the first few weeks as they figure out what baby will take. What about sending smaller bottles? Let’s say you usually send 6oz per bottle. Split that into a 4oz bottle and a 2oz backup. Have them use the 4oz first, and if baby is still hungry, give the backup.
Runner says
Would love to get some grounding here but please don’t laugh too much: my daughter, 2 and a few months, strikes me as exceptionally smart. She did not start speaking super early but is now incredibly verbal, can parrot words back almost immediately and seems to have a ridiculous memory. I am 90 percent sure this is me just being so over the moon in love with my kid, but part of me wonders if I should be offering her more learning opportunities because she’s gifted. You can’t really tell a kid is gifted at 2, can you? She is at home with a nanny (who is equally besotted with her, I would say) so I don’t have a daycare or preschool or anything to tell me she would enjoy more stimulation, etc.
Anonymous says
What would be your goal? Is there any evidence she is not thriving currently, or that she is unlikely to thrive in the future if you don’t change anything?
TheElms says
Why not offer a few more opportunities and see how she takes to it? Our public library is doing storytime on Zoom. You could start with that or something similar. You could look for part time preschool starting now, if your budget allows, (some places do rolling enrollment). With spring coming there might be some outdoor parent & me type activities to try. Our local nature park does parent and me “hikes” to look at flowers, trees etc.
My 20 month said her first 4 word sentence last night so I clearly think she is a genius (sarcasm), and she is home with a nanny and I’m not planning to do anything more than the above, if even that much.
Anonymous says
Zoom doesn’t generally work for kids that age. I can’t even get my 3 year old to sit still for a Zoom class. I would probably try to focus on finding things that are outside once the weather permits.
Anonymous says
It’s controversial. There are definitely people who will tell you giftedness can be identified that early, but there are other people who push back and say that preschoolers appearing very bright has much more to do with their home environment than their IQ. I tend to be in the latter camp, although you can’t and shouldn’t rule out giftedness as a reason for her advanced verbal skills at this point.
Anecdotally, I was not an early talker but was extremely verbal at 2 (speaking in full sentences with perfect grammar and the vocab of an elementary schooler). Similarly, I didn’t read especially early, but once I learned in first grade I quickly progressed to reading many years above grade level. I was identified as gifted in K based on IQ tests and was in pullout gifted classes in elementary and then tracked into honors/AP/college classes in middle and high school. My DH was never identified as gifted in elementary school, and in fact was labeled as “slow” due to a learning disability that made him struggle with reading. He has a PhD in theoretical physics from a top school and I’m 99.9% sure has a higher IQ than me, although I think I’m very smart compared to the general population. So I don’t believe there’s really ever an age at which gifted identification is fullproof, but it’s especially tenuous in preschool.
Regardless of whether or not she’s gifted, I think what you do at this age is the same – lots of reading, lots of play, nurture her interests if she shows an interest in diving deep into a particular topic, like dinosaurs. In my area camps for gifted kids generally start in K and are more enriching than academic (like they teach the kids about space instead of trying to teach kindergartners 2nd grade math…which is a good thing!). You might consider at least one year of Pre-K so you can get a referral into those programs if she qualifies. Sports, art and music can be good things for gifted kids too, so they get to an explore an interest and interact with peers while doing an activity where the playing field is more level, so to speak.
Anon says
+1 And kids generally have great memories, for details adults have long since forgotten. My first sounds a lot like yours, OP, and of course I think he’s the smartest little boy I ever did see ;) We read together tons – nonfiction, fiction, chapter books, picture books – and that’s probably the best way to keep “advancing” at an developmentally-appropriate level
Redux says
Unless they are like a savant or something, e.g., reading at age 2, I don’t think you can tell a child is gifted at age 2. So much development happens in the toddler years and some kids who seem behind race ahead (and most who seemed ahead get caught up to or eclipsed).
Gifted is a really imprecise term, imo. There is nothing wrong with wanting to give your little one more opportunities to explore and learn, but there may be something limiting in calling her “gifted.” I would encourage you to try to release the labels, especially for such a tiny child.
Anonymous says
Yes, gifted is an extremely imprecise term. Some scholars have argued that it means non-neurotypical, e.g., gifted children actually can’t learn in traditional ways neurotypical children do. But other scholars and most school districts seem to just define it as high IQ and label the smartest X% of the class as gifted. And the X varies hugely, from <1% to 10%. There can be a huge intellectual difference between kids who are smarter than 90% of their peers and kids who are smarter than 99%+ of their peers, so yeah…just because your kid has gotten the label of gifted doesn't mean they're smarter than some kid in a different district who didn't get the label, and vice versa. I agree with not putting much weight on it especially for young kids.
Anonymous says
“gifted children actually can’t learn in traditional ways neurotypical children do.” Yup. This is why we need full-time gifted programs taught by trained teachers. Lack of understanding of this fact is why educators, and parents of bright neurotypical children, get their knickers in a knot whenever anyone suggests that gifted children need services. Would you teach a child with a learning disability the same way you’d teach a neurotypical child, or vice versa? Of course not. So why would you teach a gifted child the way you’d teach a neurotypical child? But most educators think that gifted education is a special privilege and want to expand it to as many children as possible. As a result, they include children who cannot benefit from actual gifted education, and offer programming that serves their needs instead of the needs of the gifted students. As the mom of a kid who desperately needs gifted programming but whose program was cut this year because “ooh, whee, pandemic! we can use this as an excuse to cut those special services for those nerd kids that we never wanted to offer in the first place!” I find this infuriating.
Anonymous says
Yes. My mom is a gifted specialist in a district that has a full time gifted class rather than pull-out or enrichment. The problem with this is, there aren’t enough truly gifted kids to make a full-size class, so they also add smart-but-not-gifted-kids to fill it out. She complains all the time that “everyone knows” which kids are which, their needs are totally different, and it’s unfair to all of them to try to teach them together.
Pogo says
I have read this thread multiple times and I still don’t get what the “correct” use of the term gifted is? When I was growing up it was as Anon at 1:42 describes. Is that… wrong?
Anonymous says
Reply in mod. Go to the Hoagies website and click Gifted 101 for various definitions. It’s about asynchronous development. Typically identified through high IQ, but not just 90th percentile.
Anonymous says
Anonymous at 3:51, I replied below, but that’s how YOU define it. It’s not a universally accepted definition. Most school districts give kids an IQ test or something approximating one, and take the top X% of test scores. Federal guidelines suggest X could be 10, but I’ve seen districts do anywhere from 2 to 15. My local school district labels the top 5% as gifted, which is also the same number my school growing up used (different school districts but both Midwest public schools). I don’t think gifted labeling or education in the US is meaningfully different than it was in the 1990s.
Anonymous says
My kid read at 2.5 — it was considered a splinter skill for autism. Look up hyperlexia.
Anon says
This was me as a kid and I finally have an ASD diagnosis at age 37.
Anonymous says
Yes, it’s a marker for autism. You can be hyperlexic without being on the autism spectrum though.
Anonymous says
Even for a verbally / otherwise advanced 2 year old, appropriate stimulation is reading books, singing songs, playing with rhymes, general playing, music, and following her interests (animals, instruments, cars, whatever). I’m not sure what other stimulation you’d be looking at. Mine have been very interested in letters and learned them by that age, but through reading and just talking about them, not flash cards or anything.
Anonymous says
Gifted kids can be unusually intense at that age, in every way.
Until school starts, good parenting is the same for gifted kids and those who are not gifted. Once it’s time to start thinking about kindergarten, if she is highly or exceptionally gifted you will want to get her into a magnet program or another program designed to meet her unique needs. Don’t make the mistake we did and put her in a “good” public school with a pull-out or push-in program.
Spirograph says
I’m sure your daughter is delightful, but I think you’re right that you can’t really tell if a kid is gifted at 2. Even if you could, what would you do with that information? She would still need the same kind of stimulation and engagement you’d want for any 2 year old: provide opportunities to observe natural phenomena and manipulate objects (eg count and name things, go outdoors, build with blocks, play with bath toys, experiment with different materials’ properties and textures), provide opportunities for gross and fine motor skill development, and read widely and often with her. You could introduce her to musical instruments and see if she enjoys that as a creative and a new direction to stretch her brain.
Otherwise, if she’s happy and healthy, just keep doing what you’re doing.
Anon says
so i have 2.5 year old twins, and one is so so verbal and sounds like your daughter. i also used to refer to her as my parrot who remembers everything after hearing it once. my other one is less verbal, though talking a lot more now. honestly, just keep doing what you are doing. read books, engage in pretend play, etc. my more verbal kid with the ridiculous memory is a bit less skilled in terms of gross/fine motor skills, so i also try to create opportunities for her to do that. all that a 2 year old needs to do is to play. in a pre-covid world, my nanny used to take my kids to story time at the library, playgroups, etc., but now they don’t do that so they usually go play outside for 3 hours a day (not even at playgrounds, but with their scooters, go to feed ducks at a nearby park, etc.) and i like some of the busy toddler type activities
Anonymous says
Mmmm. I mean maybe she’s smart? But this isn’t out of the norm to me. My daughter is almost 4, and yeh had a vocab of about 250 words or more by 2. She still randomly talks about stuff that happened when she was like 18 months old. So also, ridiculous memory. And I’m around a lot of small children so this doesn’t sound gifted to me (if she was like trying to write her name, yes). Even then, what’s your goal?
Anonymous says
My daughter isn’t way ahead verbally, but she has a PHENOMENAL memory and will randomly make very detailed comments about things that happened before she turned 1 (she is almost 3). My husband is the exact same way – even in adulthood he has clear memories from before he turned 2 whereas I feel like I barely have memories until I was…6 or 7 maybe? Or even later. Her shorter term memory is also incredible – she learned all her colors around 16 months and her letters before she turned 2. Fwiw, nobody has ever mentioned the word “gifted” to us or suggested that she’s intellectually way above her peers, although her teachers have commented multiple times on how remarkable her memory is. She is totally thriving in her play-based preschool.
Anonymous says
My daughter was diagnosed as exceptionally gifted and learned much more in play-based preschool than in “academic” preschool.
octagon says
That was me a few years ago, so I’ll share the helpful advice this group gave me then: There’s nothing formal that you can do with a gifted child at 2, and tests are rare/unreliable at that age anyway. Kids develop at such different rates that your kid may actually have high intelligence, or she may have just developed her verbal skills ahead of other kids and they will all be about the same in another 12-18 months. The best thing you can do now is just continue to encourage her sense of wonder — reading, nature, introduce another language if that’s important to you, basic counting activities, even little STEM activities and toys. Enjoy this time!
GCA says
I don’t know what you might have in mind, but a good nanny will build learning opportunities into a child’s daily routine anyway, whether it’s reading with them (and picking up on & riffing off of their letter and word recognition), developing mathematical thinking, encouraging language learning, art, physical activity, whatever it is. I wouldn’t worry about giftedness or otherwise till much later – just focus on a healthy, happy environment and lots of play for now.
I started reading before I started preschool at age 3; by my mom’s honest assessment, the main benefit of preschool for me was learning how to interact with other kids. (33 years later and I’m still socially awkward…!)
Anon Lawyer says
I mean, how would being “gifted” change things? Shouldn’t you be finding her opportunities to develop at her current level regardless? You can pretty much guarantee your daughter will be above average in some things and below average in others; her life may be easier in some ways if that overlaps with things that are valued in a school environment, but as parents, I think we should be more worried about fostering our kids strengths and helping them cope with their weaknesses than labeling them. The whole “gifted” thing seems pretty toxic to me and the Nice White Parents podcast gave me an appreciate of how its used to siphon resources towards white middle class kids at the expense of other kids in school systems.
Anonymous says
That type of situation is a misuse of the term “gifted.” See discussion above of different learning styles. The appropriate way to handle gifted education is universal screening to identify all gifted children, then pulling them all out.
Anon Lawyer says
Maybe, but I don’t think there’s any expert or scientific consensus on that and the broader version is certainly the way many, many, many schools and parents use the term so I’m not sure that’s going to go away.
Honestly, your comment rubs me the wrong way. You’re coming in and without citation asserting that there’s this special group of kids who need to be universally screened for and pulled out of regular classrooms and that’s the only kids who should be called “gifted.” Even though it’s pretty universally acknowledged that mainstreaming to some degree or another is a good idea for EVERY OTHER neurological, physical, and learning-style difference. Seems pretty suspect.
Anonymous says
Mainstreaming for other differences is accompanied by individualized supports. When it isn’t, kids don’t do well with mainstreaming. Mainstreaming of gifted children is different because they don’t get any supports. It usually means that the gifted children don’t learn anything and are called upon to help teach the other students.
Anonymous says
Spoken like the parent of a bright but not gifted child.
Anon says
Anonymous at 2:58, we get it. You are bitter and think your school district failed your genius kid. Maybe they did. But your experience is not universal. Lots and lots of school districts have special programs for gifted kids from pullouts during the school day to after school and summer enrichment to straight acceleration. I have an IQ that classifies me as “profoundly gifted” and learned a lot in K-12 through a combination of all those things. I went to MIT so virtually all my college classmates were similarly gifted, and now my college friends are starting to have their own kids get identified as gifted. “Gifted children don’t learn anything and are called upon to help teach the other students” was not my experience (in a fairly mediocre public school district, fwiw) and has not been the experience of most people I know. I’m sorry you had such a terrible experience with a public school gifted program, but you’re clearly coming at this issue with a huge chip on your shoulder that’s affecting your ability to be objective.
Pogo says
I was going to say something similar. I also went to MIT and most of my friends went to regular ole public schools like me and did AP and Honors. A few went to the super intense public schools we talked about on here recently like TJ or Gunn, and some went to prep schools like Exeter or Choate (which are more WORK for sure but not clear if they prepare you better as we discussed).
The most helpful thing my school district did was allow me and several other children to skip a few grades of math in middle school. We even had one kid who had to be bussed over from his elementary school to study with us! He was for sure a genius.
Anonymous says
Anon Lawyer, the point of universal screening is to avoid missing gifted nonwhite, non-Asian kids who don’t get referred for screening because the referral process is biased. Then you give those kids services instead of giving services to 90th-percentile white kids with pushy parents.
Anon Lawyer says
Anon at 2:58. Do you really think that “bright but not gifted” kids, especially girls, aren’t asked to help other kids? Come on. Nobody is disputing that kids working above grade level need enrichment and often don’t get it (regardless of why they’re working above grade level – kids who just are interested in a subject and worked hard at it should get enrichment too). Nobody is disputing that some kids need to be offered alternative materials due to their learning style either. But the idea that the ONLY solution for your kid is to be in special classes that only 2% of kids get access to is asinine.
(And fwiw, I did score in that range on tests and . . . am a normal, reasonably successful but not rockstar adult who learned fine at school when I was challenged and was bored when classes didn’t try to challenge me or other kids. Much like many other people since IQ isn’t destiny. )
Anonymous says
Just echoing Anon Lawyer that kids playing the role of teacher is definitely not limited to those who are considered “gifted.” In a typical elementary class of 25 kids, you’d only have a couple kids who meet even the broadest definition of gifted. The teachers I know who did this expected any kid who had a decent understanding of the material (which was easily half the class or more) to help out those who didn’t. You don’t have to be doing calculus in elementary school to help out classmates who are struggling to understand the fraction lesson, you just have to be a decent student who understood the fraction lesson the first time it was presented, which is a much lower threshold than attaining even 90th percentile on a standardized test. And, yes, at least in my experience, this burden was put disproportionately on girls who at that age tend to focus and pay more attention and be more likely to master things the first time around than boys of the same IQ. Fortunately it doesn’t seem to be as common now as it used to be. “Peer-to-peer learning” was a big pedagogical “thing” in the 1990s but less so now.
Anon says
Mainstreaming is cruelty to gifted children.
Anonymous says
At least in the US, the screening is typically just how they perform on a standardized test like an IQ test. It’s not screening for how kids learn.
Anon says
I think there’s a subset of parents who are very resistant to their bright kids being recognized as also having other differences (learning disorders, autism spectrum, etc.) that are more stigmatized so try to conflate the two. There’s one poster on here who’s always talking about her ordinary daughter and her “gifted” son and how because the son scored like a bit higher on an IQ score, he has SO MANY DIFFERENT SPECIAL NEEDS than her ordinary daughter, and it’s like, maybe he just has different special needs and that’s not IQ related?
Anonymous says
Those tests approximate it, though. A typical definition of gifted is scoring 2 standard deviations above the mean on a standardized test. In either direction, 2 SD is a significant difference from the type of brain that public schools were designed to serve.
Anonymous says
YES! There’s even a name for it, “twice exceptional” for gifted kids who have learning differences due to something else like ADHD or being on the autism spectrum. The gifted label just means kids were exceptionally high-performing on the standardized test used for screening, which is usually an IQ test or a test for young children meant to simulate an IQ test. You can be gifted and have learning differences; they are not mutually exclusive at all. But you can also be gifted and not have learning differences. It is just false to suggest all gifted children are non-neurotypical.
Anonymous says
If a kid scores 2 SD above the mean their brain is different enough than the average that school was designed for that the normal curriculum and classroom environment won’t work well for them. Not necessarily because of learning style (but maybe also that), but because of pace, repetition, etc. No one argues that kids 2SD below the mean need additional/different services, but many people are ok with not providing them to kids on the upper end. It’s sad.
Anonymous says
Anon @ 2:42, exactly. People whose children aren’t gifted don’t understand this.
I have a gifted child who is not 2e. She learns easily in her gifted courses, where, for example, they have to derive math algorithms for themselves. She really struggles in standard classes, where, for example, they learn arithmetic by rote.
Anonymous says
You said she was misusing the term gifted because gifted children have different learning styles. I have an IQ that is almost 4 SDs above the mean but have never felt like I learn “differently” than others. I just worked way above grade level in most subjects. I agree that gifted children deserve programming that meets their needs (in many cases that is probably acceleration into way above grade level material because there’s no way a second grader with an IQ of 160 is going to learn anything in second grade no matter how the material is presented) but I don’t think it is accurate at all to say that all gifted children have learning differences or are non-neurotypical and I don’t think most US school districts screen for learning differences in identifying gifted kids – it’s pretty much straight IQ testing.
Anon Lawyer says
Anonymous at 2:55. It sounds like the pedagogy in the non-gifted classes is just not that good; kids in general should not just be shunted into classes where they’re learning things “by rote.”
Anonymous says
Is she teaching herself to read? That’s a huge tipoff.
Anon says
My daughter is 3 and I can almost guarantee she will be “gifted” whenever someone tests her. She also has an expressive speech delay, so I don’t necessarily think verbal skills and “giftedness” correlate (having known a lot of gifted kids) but I certainly wouldn’t rule it out. That being said, I test borderline genius level and she is showing signs of being even brighter than me – her logical reasoning skills, her memory, her pranks, her problem solving, beginning to teach herself to read (I was self-taught, but at 4), etc. That being said, we’re not doing anything special because she will have lots and lots of years of academics. We encourage lots of reading, lots of creativity, allow her to have a fair amount of independence in solving problems, encourage her interests in building things and let her thrive (precovid – they’re closed now) in a play based preschool she absolutely loved.
Runner says
OP here — thanks all. And yes, listening to Nice White Parents. I really wanted to be a relaxed, easy going parent who did not get caught up in labels like “gifted” etc. Unfortunately fighting against my personality and my culture…
AwayEmily says
Just wanted to say your kid sounds awesome. No advice, though — my kids (who are the best kids in the whole world) are super average, just like their parents (we both have PhDs, but I don’t think either of us is particularly gifted, though I am REALLY good at figuring out what is the best-sized Tupperware for leftovers).
AwayEmily says
Actually, caveat to my “super average” statement: my 3yo makes incredibly realistic cat noises. I’m not a professional but I think he’s probably in the top .05% of cat-noise-makers among kids his age.
Runner says
Love it. Cat noises are the best.
And I also want to say that my biggest hope for my kids is that they become decent, caring people who understand how much God loves them and how much God wants them to love their neighbors. My questions came from this vague feeling of “do I have some sort of additional responsibility here if there is something atypical going on.” This discussion has been super educational and helpful for me.
Anonymous says
Maybe our 3yos could have a zoom call? my 3yo has suddenly gotten really into being a cat (when he is taking a break from being batman), but his noises are not particularly convincing. This may be because i don’t think he has ever met a real live cat.
AwayEmily says
this made me laugh out loud. Also, has he considered a cat-batman hybrid?
Anon says
Just wanted to let you know that seeing you comment on these threads always brings a smile to my fave. I always love your comments your “average” kids (who sound delightful me!!) It’s so refreshing when parents aren’t convinced their kids have IQs of 200 and appreciate the many aspects of their kids’ personalities that have nothing to do with intelligence. More kids need moms like you.
GCA says
Oh, I love this. DH also has your superpower (I will put 2 tablespoons’ worth of beans in a quart container). I think my kids are also delightfully average: the 5.5yo can just about write his name…with 30% of the letters backwards. When she first encountered finger paint at the beginning of the pandemic, my now 2.5yo tasted it.
Pointless anecdata: I started reading at 3, and DH did not read till the end of first grade – to the point that his parents were concerned about a delay. Guess which of us has a PhD from MIT! (It is not me.)
Anon says
Anecdata, but I know a ton of people (including my husband) who are absolutely brilliant at STEM but read late or even have reading-related learning disabilities. One of many things that gives me pause about identifying gifted kids by K/1st grade.
Tweeter says
I’m sure she is absolutely adorable and funny and especially to you as her speech didn’t come early. I feel similarly about my son (2+3 mo) who really didn’t become fully verbal until recently so hearing what he has to say has been amazing and so has going from a word here or there to sentences. It might hit us harder than those parents whose kids speak earlier, ya know? My son is in daycare, not with a nanny, but he knows all his shapes and colors, can spell his name, knows his abcs, can count to 10 etc. so can a lot of his classmates – not atypical. his class also has a “theme” every week so we talk to him about the theme and what he learned and will supplement with a book at home if we have something that fits. He “reads” his favorite books to us a lot “caterpillar” “eats” “list of foods and counts” “cocoon” “butterfly” etc you get it. His development and your daughters development sound normal to me. Honestly my husband and I are smart ppl and probably same for you! Most likely he’ll be on the smarter side. But, I don’t think he’s “gifted” in the true sense of the word because I think it would be easy to tell that.
Anon says
Yeah, like others I would caution you to avoid labels as long as possible and focus on play-based schooling until at least kindergarten. If she’s not challenged in her classes in elementary school or beyond, then that’s something you need to address at that time. You don’t want your kid to check out of school because she’s bored out of her mind. But the gifted label has no benefit for a 2 year old and I’m a big believer that the label can actually do more harm than good. I was identified as gifted at a very young age, and it gave me too big of an ego and set me up for a life of believing that my raw intelligence would pave the way for academic and career success with essentially no effort. When I got to my elite undergraduate program where everyone was similarly intelligent, I crashed and burned in a big way because I didn’t know how to study and was arrogant enough to think I shouldn’t have to. My career now is perfectly fine, but nothing I couldn’t have achieved with good grades from a state university. Many gifted kids (including me) also have a lot of struggles socially. The label can be very stigmatizing among peers. The issues with racial bias in gifted programs also make me very uncomfortable, although I’m certainly not an expert on that.
My 3 year old is a bright, hilarious, adorable kid but does not appear to be gifted so far and honestly it is a HUGE relief to me. Apparently when I was in preschool my teachers told my parents all the time that I was a genius. The comment we get most often from DD’s teachers is that she’s a really empathetic kid who always tries to make a classmate feel better when they’re sad or hurt, and that comment means so much more to me than any comment about her intelligence ever could. Even if her teachers were telling us she was gifted, we would continue play-based preschool and not do anything to try get her accelerated or pulled out into special gifted things until there was a problem like her being bored or having trouble getting along with other kids. Don’t borrow trouble, you know?
Anonymous says
The answer to racial bias in the identification of gifted children isn’t to end or water down gifted education. It’s to look for the gifted kids who are being missed due to bias.
Anon says
I completely agree with your sentiment and was in no way suggesting that gifted programs should be eliminated. But our institutions are currently failing to correct their bias and appropriately identify under-represented minority gifted kids, which is something that makes me uncomfortable as an individual who theoretically might take advantage of these services. I don’t think it would ultimately be a dealbreaker if I had a child that really needed those services, but I was just pointing out (as several others did) that it’s another piece of this that’s worth thinking about, especially for those of us who have white privilege. Institutions don’t typically change until individuals demand they change.
Anon says
Late AND off the wall frivolous, but where would you go to get your ears pierced? Is Claire’s too gauche? I don’t want a cartilage piercing so I don’t need a tattoo parlor, but would try them if they’re more reputable/sanitary than the mall stores.
Anonymous says
For an adult? Tattoo parlor for sure. They’re better at doing it and it’s more hygienic, which seems important normally and even more important in Covid times. My local mall is filled with people not wearing masks or wearing them improperly, but I imagine, much like a hair salon, tattoo parlor staff take masks seriously because they could lose their license if they don’t wear one or let in patrons who won’t wear one. I would consider Claire’s for a kid depending on age if I felt the tattoo parlor would be too weird/intimidating.
GCA says
Definitely tattoo-and-piercing parlor – I would go to one even for the most mundane of earlobe piercings. They’re careful about hygiene, and staffed by specialized body piercers who have training in preventing blood-borne diseases (vs the poor mall-store staffer with a piercing gun. Don’t use a piercing gun!)
Anonymous says
Piercing shop 10000000%. The guns that pierce your ear with a (relatively blunt, btw) earring cannot be sanitized. I’ll say that again–the gun cannot be sanitized. Gross. The bluntness of the earring also leads to a more blown out piercing, which doesn’t heal as well. The needle hurts wayyyyyyyyy less.
I had a regular ol’ earlobe piercing done at a piercing shop. No one batted an eye. And, bonus: you can pick tiny little barbell earrings that are much, much more comfortable to sleep in than traditional earrings.
Piercing shops will also help you learn proper after care. (The alcohol solution and twisting the earrings actually sets back your progress and increases your likelihood of infection.)
Anon says
I would do a tattoo place only for the hollow needle they use. My second set has a little bit of lumpy scar tissue from a piercing gun.
Anon says
Anyone in NYC applying to private K and want to be anxious together? We only applied to 2 schools and honestly have a good zoned public so really this is not so high stakes, but, the suspense is distracting me regardless.
NYCer says
We are a couple years removed (and a couple years away for our younger daughter), but I remember being anxious as well. It all worked out for us and hopefully it will for you too!
Anonymous says
From Hoagies: Giftedness is asynchronous development in which advanced cognitive abilities and heightened intensity combine to create inner experiences and awareness that are qualitatively different from the norm. This asynchrony increases with higher intellectual capacity. The uniqueness of the gifted renders them particularly vulnerable and requires modifications in parenting, teaching and counseling in order for them to develop optimally.” The Columbus Group, 1991, cited by Martha Morelock, “Giftedness: The View from Within”, in Understanding Our Gifted, January 1992
“Gifted” is not a synonym for “bright” or “high-achieving.” It is not the 90th percentile on an IQ test. It is asynchronous and advanced cognitive development, which is usually identified through a very high IQ test score. It is often accompanied by other traits such as intensity of focus, sensory issues, etc. Many gifted children underperform in mainstream classrooms because they are bored, disengaged, and/or bullied.
Anonymous says
Was a reply to Pogo above.
Anonymous says
This is one person’s view and by no means the predominant one in the United States.
“The federal definition of giftedness, originally developed in 1971 and called the Marland report, revolves around ‘high achievement capability’… States and local districts are not required to use the federal definition of giftedness…Generally, though, existing definitions typically are based on the federal definition. For instance, the National Association for Gifted Children’s (NAGC, n.d.-b) definition also revolves around high capability: Gifted individuals are those who demonstrate outstanding levels of aptitude (defined as an exceptional ability to reason and learn) or competence (documented performance or achievement in top 10% or rarer) in one or more domains…”
https://gifted.msu.edu/about/226/what-does-being-gifted-really-mean.
Even this Morelock person also isn’t disagreeing with idea that gifted children are identified by a high IQ score, the question is just what the cutoff should be. Identifying only kids who are 99th percentile on IQ test is obviously more selective than 90th percentile, but it doesn’t mean they learn in a fundamentally different way. It just means they’re even smarter/more above grade level than the 90th percentile kids.
Runner says
This is all so interesting. I am now even less sure that my child is gifted. ;) But I think I like the idea that came up in many of the comments of just focusing on how a kid learns. Exceptional delays or accelerations might contribute to different environmental or pedagogical needs for any child.
Anonymous says
It’s really hard to know at this age. I agree with someone who said that spontaneous early reading is the most reliable indicator of giftedness at this age, but the contrapositive (no early reading -> not gifted) is not true. People who show exceptional ability in math and engineering often seem to read at a typical age or even late. And the early reading has to be spontaneous or it doesn’t indicate much. If it’s drilled into the kid it says more about the parents than the kid’s intellectual ability.