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Happy Wednesday! This machine washable ponté sheath dress has been on my radar for a while — and now it’s getting great reviews over at Lands’ End. I like that it’s available in regular, petite, plus, and tall sizes, comes in solid black as well as a textured purpley tweed and a textured white/black tweed, and is only $79-$99. Huzzah! Elbow Sleeve Ponté Sheath Dress
(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.10.24
(See all of the latest workwear sales at Corporette!)
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lands’ End – 30% off full-price styles
- Loft – Extra 40% off sale styles
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- Zappos – 26,000+ women’s sale items! (check out these reader-favorite workwear brands on sale, and some of our favorite kids’ shoe brands on sale)
Kid/Family Sales
- Carter’s – Birthday sale, 40-50% off & extra 20% off select styles
- Hanna Andersson – Up to 50% off all baby; up to 40% off all Halloween
- J.Crew Crewcuts – Extra 30% off sale styles
- Old Navy – 40% off everything
- Target – BOGO 25% off select haircare, up to 25% off floor care items; up to 30% off indoor furniture up to 20% off TVs
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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- The concept of “backup care” is so stupid…
- I need tips on managing employees in BigLaw who have to leave for daycare pickup…
- I’m thinking of leaning out to spend more time with my family – how can I find the perfect job for that?
- I’m now a SAHM and my husband needs to step up…
- How can I change my thinking to better recognize some of my husband’s contributions as important, like organizing the shed?
- What are your tips to having a good weekend with kids, especially with little kids? Do you have a set routine or plan?
Legally Brunette says
This is a pretty dress but I find the ponte at Lands End to be poor quality. Lots of pilling even after minimal washing/wearing.
Navy Attorney says
Thanks, I was about to pull the trigger!
NewMomAnon says
Huh, I’ve had really good luck with the three ponte dresses I’ve bought from them. I wear one of them almost weekly and the other two monthly, and they’ve been in rotation for about a year. I wash them on delicate cycle and air dry (because the communal dryer scorches clothing). The only issue I’ve had is some fading in the black ponte dress and a bit of stretching in two of them.
Mrs. Jones says
My LE ponte dress has held up awesome. I wash on gentle and hang to dry. No pilling at all.
Maddie Ross says
Same. I’ve had relatively good luck with them. I also find that this style of dress (though I don’t have this exact one) is a good one for hiding early pregnancy, for those who are interested. The waist sits a bit above your natural waist and the skirt is forgiving on LE.
Nanny Gave Notice says
So our nanny just gave us notice, she is leaving us for a business position. I don’t blame her, she’s 32, I think she has more ambition than being a nanny forever, but this still sucks. Our first nanny had to leave us to deal with a medical issue, so we’re already on our second nanny in two years. It took us a month to find this one and she was only with us 6 months before this business opportunity for her came up. (Grr. I’m happy for her, but Grr.)
I had started to look into preschools for next fall, but they all have wait-lists that seem to run into next summer. I dread hiring another nanny, only to drop her hours or let her go next summer. I assume we should be up front about that when hiring, but I suspect it will narrow our choices. To top it off, my toddler loves her nanny–LOVES her–so I think no matter what we are in for a rough adjustment.
I’m not sure what I’m looking for (advice? commiseration? tips on handling the transition to a new nanny? tips on hiring a nanny for a 6 or 8 month period? something else that I have not thought of?). This just sucks and I wish childcare were easier.
Betty says
I’m sorry. Truly. I’ve been through a similar hire-leave-hire-leave childcare cycle, and it is just miserable for everyone. One thought: Are you looking at full-time preschools? If so, disregard the rest: Presuming you need 40-45 hours of childcare currently, how many hours will you need after factoring in preschool? If it is just a few hours shorter (3 hours of preschool, 3 times per week), you may want to keep a full-time nanny and adjust the hours slightly or have your nanny take care of child-related chores while your toddler is at school. Having a full-time nanny is also a life saver for random sick days or teacher in-service days.
Nanny Gave Notice says
Thanks for this comment. As you can see below, I am hesitant to entirely give up the nanny.
Two Cents says
As someone whose child got into preschool a few months after being on the waitlist (after being told the waiting list was 1 year), my biggest advice is: BE PROACTIVE. Get on all of those waiting lists and call every couple of weeks to see if an opening has come up. So many people get on every waiting list without having an intention of actually going to the school, so if you show some initiative, a director may think of you when an opening comes up.
I would prioritize full time preschools, so that you don’t to worry about hiring a nanny.
RDC says
I found this too. Also that they could move you up the list of you were willing to accept an immediate start date (or at least start paying as soon as a spot opened up).
Em says
+1 we got on a waitlist for one of the best daycares in our area and was told it was going to be a year wait and got a call two months later.
Nanny Gave Notice says
OP here. This is good advice and I will definitely be proactive with our favorite programs (once we figure out what those are, I’m setting up all the tours now).
Anonymous says
I’d hire another full time nanny. It could be a full year before you get a spot at the preschool.
If your child has never been in group childcare/preschool before, I’d expected a few rounds of coughs/colds in the first months so you may want to keep the nanny on even past the preschool start date so you don’t burn through your sick leave.
Another R says
At the risk of returning to the “school” debacle yesterday, what do you mean by preschool? I only ask because where I live, a preschool day is usually 9am – 12pm with the option to tack on until 3 or 4pm once the child stops napping and can spend that time doing activities. I know people who squeeze work into this kind of school schedule and it’s hard – between the limited hours, holidays, school vacations, and sick children, it’s hard, not to mention the fact that they all log on and do more work at night. If you’re considering that, I’d hire another nanny over just relying on preschool. If you’re using preschool to mean a place where your kids can get full day care and is rarely closed for holidays (and never for winter break or other vacations) I’d still get another nanny and figure out the preschool part once you’re off the waitlist.
Nanny Gave Notice says
OP here. Thanks for the posts. These are helping gather my thoughts.
We’re looking at all different kinds of preschools. Some are full-day programs, some are morning only, etc. Some of the preschools start at age 2.5 (which applies to us), while others my daughter would go into a toddler room (more like daycare) for awhile and start the preschool programs at age 3.
I think what is driving me crazy is all the variables between nanny and preschool and trying to choose something that works for now but that won’t fall apart in 6 months.
After reading some of these comments, I think my preference would be to get another nanny and utilize a part-time preschool program when we find the right one. I will just have to hope that the nanny is flexible on hours once we know which hours the preschool program will be. (They all seem different, but we would be looking for a part-time program if we keep a nanny.)
And let me just say what a first-world problem this is. My childcare budget is virtually unlimited for my area. My working hours are very flexible, and my husband also has some flexibility (although to a lesser extent). I only need 35 to 40 hours of childcare a week (“part-time” lawyer). But childcare is still this big issue for me. I cannot imagine what this must be like for a mother working at a job with no flexibility, no sicktime, a limited budget, and no help from her spouse. I know women do it everyday, but there is just something seriously wrong when childcare is this hard to figure out. If anyone read “Bringing Up Bebe,” I dream of a well-run public school creche starting at age 2 or 3.
Another R says
I’m also a “part-time” lawyer but my husband works long hours and doesn’t have that much flexibility. We have two kids. Here’s my additional $0.02 in light of your last paragraph above. Find a new, full time nanny with the intention of keeping said nanny on a full time basis after your child starts part time preschool. Have your nanny spend the preschool hours taking some other responsibility off your shoulders (just make sure when you’re interviewing now that s/he will be open to that type of work).
CPA Lady says
In the daycare/school debacle post yesterday, someone mentioned the “rat race” that small children are on at an increasingly young age these days. I keep seeing alarmist articles about how kids have tons more mental and physical health issues because they are required to do a lot of sit-still high pressure academic work before they are ready.
For those of you who have kids in the 4-6 age range, what do you see, and what is it like? Are these articles overly hysterical? Or are they right on? If you disagree with the intense academic focus, how do you convey that to your kid and/or his teacher? And is there a difference in private v public? I’m considering the private v public thing (I’ve got a few more years to go, but I enjoy idly thinking about it) and one thing is that the private school advertises its kindergarten as a true play-based K program. My daycare turns more into a pre-school for the 4 and 5 year old kids, and I find it weird that there is a bulletin board with examples of the kids work that involves them writing words. I guess that’s just what it’s like nowadays? That they are expected to be able to read and write before they even get to kindergarten?
Anonymous says
Play based is the way to go. I referenced it yesterday on the main page but Finland rates the highest on international education surveys (e.g. PISA). They have no formal schooling until age 7. Until age 7 – it’s all about outdoor time and play based learning.
Are there any outdoor/forest daycares/preschools in your area? Those are amazing. The waitlist for the one in my area is like 2 years long though.
anon says
I am a little concerned about this. I have a 4yo in a (tuition) preschool program that is part of an excellent public magnet school and I’ve seen some evidence of academic work that seems too advanced.
My daughter actually started last year–I was surprised when we got a lottery spot at the excellent public magnet school (we were told to start trying at PreK-3 but that it was unlikely we’d get in) and we couldn’t afford not to take it. Our first conference with her PreK-3 teacher was ridiculous; she had a big packet of worksheets and said, “Don’t worry that she can’t do most of this–this material is what we used to use in kindergarten. We are just trying to gauge her progress and identify areas where she needs improvement.” I made it very clear at that time that I wasn’t worried about her academic progress, that I was only concerned with how she was adjusting socially and emotionally. It was hard to tell whether she made that the focus because she thought that’s what parents want when they start sending their kids to “school” (ha), or because that’s the focus of the school itself. I don’t know exactly how much time the kids spend per day on things like worksheets–I haven’t asked because I don’t see much of that actually sent home, the schedule shows a lot of play time and music and art, and my daughter is mature for her age. I would have continued to push back if it seemed more pervasive. I will say that I do not plan to put my younger child, a boy, into the PreK-3 class when he is old enough. He has a spot as a sibling no matter when we start, so I am leaning toward keeping him in our beloved daycare and waiting to start at the public school until kindergarten.
anon says
sorry for the repetition–forgot to go back and edit before posting!
NewMomAnon says
No kids in that age range yet, but one piece of anecdata – as part of my mad scramble to graduate from law school without crippling debt, I spent one summer grading “No Child Left Behind” math essays. One set of essays I graded was a Kindergarten set(!!!), which required the child to hand write (not bubble) an answer to questions like “Name two differences between a triangle and a circle.”
Almost all of the kindergarten questions had something written (often adorable), even if it was just a few words repeated from the question. In contrast, half of the questions were left blank on the middle and high school essays. I thought it was horrible that we were doing that to kindergarten students, but also amazing that they were able to do it at all. I know my elementary school (in the stone age) didn’t even start teaching reading until 1st grade, and most of my class wouldn’t have been able to write a full sentence until the end of 1st grade or maybe even 2nd grade.
I don’t know how public schools are making this happen; kindergarten used to be functionally the equivalent of public preschool, in that it taught kids the basics of alphabet and counting and classroom behavior. Where are kids learning that now, especially if they aren’t in a daycare or preschool setting? It seems like a situation that could cause kids to come into the school system behind with no way of catching up.
Closet Redux says
Wow, that example question is absolutely ridiculous! Probably the answer is sides and angles, but I was initially totally dumbfounded for a few seconds. One is pointy, the other round? One would roll down a hill, the other would not? What a question for a kindergartner!
NewMomAnon says
My favorite was the kid who said, “One is a pizza and the other is only one piece of pizza.” With adorable mis-spellings and crossed off letters. Usually they said something about the triangle having corners and sides, or being taller than the circle (there was a picture with the question). One kid colored in the circle and noted that the circle was black and the triangle was white.
Closet Redux says
Oh that pizza response is so cute! And probably WRONG even though it shows 1000x more creativity than the CORRECT response. Deep eyeroll.
anne-on says
Have you checked your local board of ed’s requirements for Kindergarten? My mom was an elementary school principle and kindergarten these days is absolutely not what it was when we were younger. My local school district cited ‘readiness’ as being able to write first and last name, numbers up to 20, reconigze numbers up to 30, sight read 5-10 words, write all letters (upper and lower case) among other things. It really shocked my husband and made him a lot more proactive in helping me find a more educationally focused pre-k.
That being said – the ‘teaching’ is in 10-15 minute chunks, with lots of ‘play’ involved (scavenger hunt around the classroom for letters, spelling in macaroni, etc.) with lots of physical activity intersperse to make sure they’re not overloaded. My son LOVES it, and truly doesn’t seem overwhelmed by the educational aspects, but we checked lots of programs to make sure the fit would be right for us.
EP-er says
Yes, early learning is much, much more academically focused than when you went to school. Children are expected to be readers in K, home work is assigned and turned in, there is less play time & more “traditionally older” learning required. My eldest in third grade and I am amazed at the expectations compared to when I went to school. (High expectations = great strides in learning! Unrealistic Expectations = burn-out, frustrations, not liking school. Fine line there.) Add in extra-curriculars (Dance! Soccer! Piano! Swim! Kumon!) and it is truly a rat-race for kids. We are consciously trying to step back from that mentality.
My 4.75 year old goes to a “Child Learning Center” — AKA school, day care, what have you — and they do push academics. She has one more year before starting to K & we had to decide last May if we were keeping her in the “4 Year Old Preschool” or the “Junior Kindergarten.” Jr. K is pretty much the K curriculum, but without the expectation of mastery. I sat in this informational meeting hearing all of this talk of the schedule and expectations. I felt like Fraulein Maria raising my hand, asking, “But when do the children play?” The curriculum is 9-4, and they can play before or after. And there was homework worksheets every day. This just wasn’t for us. I know that my kid needs to work on playing, imagining, getting along with others, etc. more than she needs to be reading at 4. How bored are you in K if you have already done the curriculum once? So we left her in the Pre-K program. Three weeks in & the downsides are: 1. All of her friends leveled up & 2. She is the oldest in the room. So, her teacher is great and doing individual work with her. I am second-guessing my decision, but still think it is the right one in the long run.
Closet Redux says
LOL at Frauline Maria.
Relatedly, should I be concerned about my child being the oldest and missing out on opportunities to learn from the older kids?
My 2.5 year old is in a daycare center where parents tend (on account of cultural norms around my area) to leave daycare at 3 years old in favor of “school”– junior pre-k style 3 and 4 year old programs. I am solidly in the camp of play-based social and emotional development being what she needs at this age, but it does give me pause that she is almost the oldest kid in her daycare. Last year I felt like she was learning so much from the kids who were turning 3 and it makes me second guess my decision not to move her into a more formal program (there is a montessori center close by that has a toddler room and a 3 and 4 year old program, where a number of our former daycare center playmates have gone). If we’re the only ones making the decision to keep our 3 year old in daycare, she certainly misses out on learning from older kids, right? But does that outweigh our interest in keeping her out of “school” for now?
EP-er says
Well, I think that it depends on the teacher & class room dynamic. She can learn a lot by teaching/helping younger kids, too. (One of the ideas behind the mixed age classes at Montessori.)
I would start by talking to her lead teacher and talk about your concerns. My daughter is still shy and reserved (just her personality) but has awesome fine motor skills. We talked about what the teacher would do to make sure that my daughter was engaged and learning in the classroom. (small groups, working on more advanced concepts with her.)
I can’t remember where I read this, but it was in an article about headstart/early learning (and repeat to myself when I get caught up in this): If the parents can compare & contrast the difference between Montessori, Waldorf, and Reggio Emilia, the actual preschool chosen doesn’t matter. The parents are already invested in their children’s education and reinforcing learning at home. This is more of an outcome predictor than the type of preschool you pick.
Your daughter is going to do awesome whatever you pick!
Mrs. Jones says
My son just started kindergarten at a public school (from Montessori–I posted before about his adjustment issues, which seem to be slowly improving). My impression is that most of the kids can’t read or write. He doesn’t have homework. So based on my experience, those articles are a little overly hysterical.
Anonymous says
I hope so, I just googled and found several talking about burnt out kindergartners at schools in my area. Apparently my district uses the common core curriculum and there are only about 30 minutes of outdoor play per day. This just makes me sad. Even coming home from preschool, my son really needs to just run around and scream and let off steam after being in a structured environment all day. And that’s with an hour of outdoor play in the morning and again in the afternoon. There’s no way I will make him sit and do homework when he’s 5. My mom is a teacher and I really don’t want to be “that mom” who makes my kid’s teacher’s life difficult, but I will absolutely push back about homework in kindergarten if it comes to that. (I also realize it’s often not even the teacher’s choice, s/he’s just the messenger). Is that a thing parents do? Maybe the pendulum will swing away from academics in the next couple years. Fingers crossed.
LegalMomma says
I feel the same way about not wanting to be “that” mom. My entire family is teachers (both parents, sister, multiple aunts/ uncles/cousins, grandparents) ranging in age from K through high school math — clearly I broke the mold — but I will be the parent that pushes back if I have to. That said, my Mom, who taught K for 30+ years (and some 2nd grade for another 5 or so) is firmly against the current style of K. So much so that I am convinced its one of the reasons she retired, she couldn’t stand having to push 5 year-olds into such a structured work environment rather than allowing them to be five and learn through play. My cousins who are teachers with kids have also been known to push back against the “rat race” that is going on. So much so that they “opted-out” of the common core testing for their kids (along with a ton of other NY parents). In fact, the common consensus from my family of teachers is that the current push for testing and early words etc. is over the top. Another teacher/cousin specifically didn’t raise the fact that her child could handle a day’s worth of HW in about 5-10 min on the car ride home (rather than the 45-an hour that it was “supposed” to take) because she didn’t want her child to be assigned additional work – she wanted her outside playing.
All that to say I am very hopeful that the pendulum will have begun to swing back the other way before my kiddo starts K. (And that I also fantasize about convincing my Mom to become my child’s “home school” teacher (while ignoring all the other reasons why this wouldn’t work)).
Teacher says
Teacher here. There’s no such thing as Common Core Curriculum. Common core is a set of benchmarks of where children should be at the end of the year, NOT a teaching method. I realize may not have intended to mean it as such, but I’m so annoyed with people sharing articles about “Common Core Math” when that’s not actually a thing.
I actually find Common Core to be the least offensive of school initiatives in the past 20 years.
anon says
I think it really depends on where you are, down to a micro level (e.g., the specific school, and even the classroom). My son attends a private coop preschool in NYC. Its a mixed 3s and 4s program that has a contract with the city DOE to provide preK for the 4s, so the 4s program is basically free for the official school day hours. The school’s philosophy is Bank Street-inspired, and very much play based. Even so, he has managed to learn to write his name. Its not something they are drilling, but I think the kids see each other writing and get interested. He will be heading to public kindergarten barring unforeseen circumstances, and I have not yet investigated what the curriculum is like there at our zoned school beyond general positive feedback/ratings. My husband is a high school teacher, and I know that each individual teacher is the ultimate arbiter of what happens in the classroom, regardless of the official curriculum, the principal’s vision, etc. That being said, I have a friend in Northern NJ who said that when she investigated public preschools she found tremendous academic pressure, and it sounded like it was mostly a response to parents’ desire that their kids excel early. Her sense was that some of this was cultural–it is an area with many Asian immigrants–but that may be off base.
Ally McBeal says
My oldest went to a truly play-based, social-emotional learning preschool. We adored it. She then started at our neighborhood public elementary school and we were shocked to realize that she was significantly behind others in her class. She was not reading. She recognized her letters and most sounds – which I thought was great – but turned out to be at the bottom half of her class in her reading group. It was a brutal moment. Kindergarten explicitly taught reading with phonics instructions, homework, etc. – and the teachers made clear that they expected children to be reading by the end of kinder. And many of our fellow parents ASKED THE TEACHER FOR MORE HOMEWORK. (To be clear, I think this is insane.)
She’s now in first, and is a kind, enthusiastic, energetic student. She’s beloved by her friends and teachers, great at conflict resolution, generous to others. But still not at “grade level” for reading. The teachers say that they don’t expect any kid to be “reading” at the beginning of first grade, but many of her peers are in fact reading.
It’s been tough – I truly believe in play-based preschool, but I also really wish that she had not been identified as underperforming in her first week of kindergarten. We often think of moving her into a private school that would embrace the Finnish model – but we are also committed to the neighborhood and public aspects of our current school, and don’t want to spend $30,000/year on private. It’s a tough choice and I don’t really have any good suggestions, but wanted to give you my experience.
Anonymous says
You’re doing great. “a kind, enthusiastic, energetic student. She’s beloved by her friends and teachers, great at conflict resolution, generous to others.” This matters so much more for long term success than grade level reading – especially since they are supposed to achieve grade level by the end of the year – not when they start the grade.
EP-er says
Let me repeat this for you: “You’re doing great.” Encourage the reading at home, but also continue to encourage the kindness & enthusiasm! So much more important!
ChiLaw says
I don’t really know if this is a new-fangled thing. My kindergarten, 30 years ago, used “the Carden Method” and I remember clearly memorizing phonics charts and then having tests where I had to recreate those phonics charts from memory. We were definitely expected to be able to read aloud from books in kindergarten. I give that ridiculously rigorous kindergarten education a lot of credit for my ability to read very fast, but I can acknowledge that it would be a disaster for a lot of kids.
Who knows, maybe that’s why I’m in therapy now?
Southern charm says
My MIL is lovely, but she’s a pretty stereotypical passive southern lady. I’m a say-what-I-think born and bread New Yorker, so we are just at opposite ends of the communication spectrum. We get along just fine, though.
Anyway, I realized that my MIL and my ways may be genetic when I stopped to think about my 3 y/o’s behavior. If MIL, my kiddo and I all want to have a glass of water and ideally have my husband fetch it, the following would happen:
Me: DH, could get me a glass of water? (Might say please).
MIL: Gee, it sure would be nice to have a glass of water. (Nothing). Oh if only I were already standing up, I’d get a glass of water.
Daughter: Daddy, you didn’t get me any water you silly goose!
She pulled this last night and it absolutely cracked me up.
FWIW, my mother is a total martyr. She’d say something like “oh, well, everyone in the room has water but me. I guess I’ll go get myself some water then.” And pout for hours after. But she’s not relevant to this story ;)
anne-on says
Ha! My MIL is not southern but also pulls the ‘oh gee, it’d be nice if someone could get me XYZ’. Drives me (and my husband, and her kids) nuts. At least we can all commiserate…
Anonymous says
My MIL pulls “BIL, Wouldn’t you like to get me a glass of water?” and it drives BIL mad. DH doesn’t care.
Sam says
My MIL is not passive aggressive at all, but very indirect. And I dont usually get her hints 95% of the time. For example, what are you planning to do on Friday? I would go on about things I’m planning to do. Not realizing the response that my husband would give “Why, did you want me to do something on Friday?” And then the answer would be “well I was hoping I could see the kids, it’s been a while”.
This is really, really, hard for me. If I respond “X,y,z on Friday or just chillin on the couch” there’s NO follow up question or comment from her. She automatically takes it that I have read her request (needed something friday) and turned it down (said I’m doing something or resting friday). But I have not read her request AT ALL. I am just super direct so I figure she’ll just ask if she needs something. And if the answer’s no I figure she will ask again some other time!
She doesn’t pout, or express any bad feelings whatsoever. Which is great of her. But really, for 10 years of marriage, I just did.not.get.it.
Nanny Advice says
Our new nanny has been with us for several weeks. The role is really nanny/house-keeper or manager. Her first priority is the kids but when they’re at preschool (a few mornings a week from 9-12) she is to run errands, grocery shop, cook dinners and do laundry and other light cleaning. She also has the time they nap in the afternoons to cook and do the light cleaning. A cleaning team does the heavy cleaning.
Things have gone really well so far. The kids love her and she is proactive about doing activities with them when they’re not in school/asleep which I really like. We ramped up slowly on the household responsibilities because I know there’s a learning curve in picking up how we like things done, etc. So far, fridge is stocked, meals are cooked. Laundry and dishwasher have usually but not always been done (maybe 90% of the time). Other light cleaning like sweeping or vacuuming under the table or wiping down the kitchen doesn’t really seem to be happening much. These are things I would like her to do to the extent she has time and I’ve said and written this out. If she doesn’t have time, I don’t want her shortchanging the kids and doing it while they could be doing something else… although I did say I wanted them involved in very light cleaning to the extend that it is age appropriate. When I quickly clean up a mess they make, I usually have them get their kid brooms or a rag and help me – we’re talking under a minute of cleaning here.
Nanny and I have given each other informal feedback here and there but it’s time for a more conversation regarding how things are going, if her workload is okay, etc.
First question: any advice regarding things to say or ask, or how to phrase things?
Lead in to my second question: in the past several days I ended up being home two mornings when the kids were at preschool. Both days she left as usual to drop them off at preschool (this is when I normally leave for my office). One day she had a big shopping list that included stops at 2-3 stores. I had kind of expected her to do what our previous nanny did or what I have done when it’s been me with those responsibilities: shop, come home, unload and put away everything, start a meal or other task if she had time and then go pick up the kids at noon. Our house is generally between most stores and the preschool so it made sense. However, our current nanny didn’t come home before picking up the kids. It really didn’t seem to me like the errands should have taken her that long but maybe they did. Another day she had a very short errand to run that included a quick stop at a on the way back from preschool. 1.5 hours after drop off she still wasn’t back.
This nanny comes well recommended from someone I know who is probably a micromanager. I am not a micromanager. I want this to be a long term relationship with her being as proactive as possible. I also want to be a reasonable employer. I have been clear that the kids come first, clear that she deserves some downtime during her day (which is 8-9 hours, we pay her for 9 regardless), and clear that if she occasionally needs to do something personal that can only be done during business hours she should do it (while the kids are in preschool if possible).
Second question: how do I enquire about how she’s spending her non-kid time? How do we (she and I, together) figure out what is a reasonable amount of household work for her to take on?
Thanks!
anne-on says
Can you prioritize the cleaning tasks? Or write her up a suggested schedule so she knows what jobs are every day jobs, and what jobs are once a week jobs?
Personally, I cannot stand a dirty kitchen. Toothpaste smears in the bathroom sink? eh. Toys not put away every night? eh, as long as they’re all in one room and not all over the house its not a huge deal.
I also find that not wiping down sticky after-eating crumbs/drips/blobs makes it a bigger job later when they’ve congealed. So for me, I’ve told our au pair that after every meal kiddo needs to take plate/napkin to sink or dishwasher and can play alone for 5 minutes while she wipes down counters/vacuums. Really, your kids should be able to handle a few minutes of alone time. Maybe also consider a good cordless vac if hauling out the big one is standing in the way of he doing it?
Another R says
Will work on a schedule of daily vs. weekly, thanks. I clean (or don’t) based on how things look but I get that some people just don’t see minor things. Plus her background is in early childhood development, not cleaning!
The kids can and do play independently for periods of time. I don’t entertain them 100% of the time I’m with them nor do I expect – or even want – our nanny to. I just don’t want all of her kid time to be spent doing household things. I feel like there’s enough non-kid time (preschool/naps) for her to do most of the work but I don’t want to overburden her or come off as accusatory.
Another R says
To be clear – I’m the OP on this thread, I switched devices between posts and wasn’t paying attention to my name, hence the difference.
Anonymous says
She sounds great. I’d make a point to mention that you’d appreciate it if she could ensure the table area is swept everyday and leave it at that.
Another R says
She is great. I’m posting for advice because I don’t want to screw this up but I also want to get a few things hammered out.
Meg Murry says
Don’t forget that she has a bit of a learning curve as well. It will take a while before she learns that the dish soap is in this aisle and there is applesauce in this area but the organic applesauce is over there, etc. Even with an organized list, every time I go to a different store I find myself zig-zagging all over for the handful of things I missed on my first pass through the store – and doubly so if there isn’t a clear “loop” to follow or if different stores in your area set up the aisle in different order (the Target near my work is almost a mirror image of the one near my house, but not quite. I get so disoriented when I go there that it takes me 2X as long to get through the list).
Another R says
Yes, you’re totally right. I’m trying to be cognizant of this! She’s also less organized and task oriented than our previous nanny. I knew this going into things, and am okay with it because I think the kids benefit. So I know I can’t compare the two. And yet I am.
Emmer says
Did she know that you were home those two mornings? If so she may have purposefully stayed out of the house to avoid disturbing you.
Another R says
No, I don’t think she knew I was home. I was planning on leaving, was ready and dressed to leave, but then something pressing came up and I wanted to be in front of a computer for some calls instead of making the calls while driving and not be able to take notes, reference documents, etc. That said, she knows I can work from home and I have on occasion but I do it in an out of the way area of the house.
I became curious after the second morning because the errand was so simple and because together we’d planned for her to do something that needed to be started this morning in order for it to be finished this afternoon (think letting dough rise – not really the task, but that kind of thing that needs attention at different points of time).
Her previous employer mentioned to me that sometimes not every household task got done and wondered if the nanny was trying to cram too much into too little time. In light of this I’m wondering if she’s spending the kids’ preschool hours doing personal errands to the point where it’s impacting how much she can accomplish in the rest of the day. I am not opposed to some personal errands – the other day she mentioned she was going to get her car washed while they were at preschool. That’s fine with me, and I want that kind of open relationship and I want her to have enough flexibility that she can keep her life together. What I don’t want is her to not be able to get a load of laundry finished in the 9 hours she’s there because she wasn’t at our house at all during the morning and therefore wasn’t able to start it until after the kids go down for their afternoon naps at which time she’s also trying to cook dinner and do everything else during that time. What I don’t want is nothing being ready for the kids to eat for lunch after preschool so lunch gets postponed 30+ minutes while she makes it and then nap time is postponed and then bedtime is postponed…
Am I coming off as a totally unreasonable taskmaster?
Anonymous says
I think you’re kind of unreasonable. If she’s there for 9 hours you also need to factor in her time for breaks. Those also have to occur while the kids are at preschool or napping if you want her to be focused on the kids when they are present.
Trust the results you’re getting so far and focus on tweak where she needs to put emphasis instead of micromanaging her and ending up with a tense relationship.
Another R says
Thank you. This is what I wanted to hear. I mean, what I wanted to hear if it’s how things seem from the outside. In her shoes, I’d front load the work, then take off as much of nap time as possible. That’s also what our previous nanny did. Current nanny isn’t me and she isn’t previous nanny. She doesn’t have to do things like we would.
I guess the real question if she regularly plans to take off/attend to personal matters during the entire time the kids are in school. I don’t know that that is happening – I mean, the morning she wasn’t back 1.5 hours after I assumed she’d be back could have been a one time thing, or she could have returned right after I left. 1.5 hours of break out of a 8-9 hour day isn’t excessive. That said, I feel that 2.75 hours off 3-4 times a week is excessive. I want to feel out how she’s using her non-kid time, generally speaking, as it relates to her workload and the fact that some things aren’t getting done. Care to help me out?
Famouscait says
Re: taking breaks and personal errands: it could be that she sees doing personal errands as her break time. Meaning, she’d rather putz around in Target for an hour before getting the kids, rather than coming back to the house, starting the morning project, reading on the couch for 20 min., etc.
Katala says
I agree break time should be happening during the same windows as the non-kiddo duties, generally, but I would want to know what she was doing for 2.75 hours 3-4 times/week if I’m paying for that time. Maybe that’s unreasonable, but I’d be questioning those absences too.
IMO, she should see her personal errands and break time. If she spent 1.5 hours in the morning doing a personal errand, I could see resting for 5-10 minutes during nap but not another hour break. And to me, putzing around Target instead of starting the morning project isn’t really acceptable as a way to spend paid time (once in a while, sure, but not regularly), especially if that means the project isn’t going to get done.
Samantha says
I dont think you are unreasonable at all. I have a similar issue with my current nanny. She’s great with my kid and really really loves my kid. I didnt have that in my previous nanny. However, my previous nanny was businesslike and task oriented and didnt waste a second. She was always looking for things to do around the house and would be like ‘Oh, I saw your clothes were done so I folded them up… I happened to iron a couple of your shirts there” which delighted me. BUT – my current nanny has to be told what household stuff to do in excruciating detail and like you, I dont micromanage. She’s great with the baby and thinks proactively about what she needs (e.g. asked me to buy musical toys and she bought one herself because kiddo loves music).
I pretty much ask myself if this is the hill (ironing clothes) I want to die on, and the answer is no, so I move on. I get a helper to come in on the weekends to cook or do other chores for 2 hours.
PhilanthropyGirl says
I don’t want to threadjack the Default Parent discussion – so I may repost tomorrow. But as it’s time to purchase a 2017 planner, I’m curious.
Do you have a favorite planner/organizer/calendar that makes life easier for you? FWIW, DS is not in school yet so I’m not balancing that, but we do have plenty of volunteer/religious/social/family things that keep us busy along with work. I need something that covers all my bases and I function better with paper over electronic.
Suggestions?
MDMom says
At the suggestion of someone on the main thread, I started using a bullet journal (made from an extra notebook I had lying around). It is absolutely perfect for me because what I really needed was an organized daily to do list and a place for random notes/lists (and I prefer these functions in paper, I could never make an electronic form work- evernote sucks for lists, workflowy sucks for notes. I use Google calendar for my real calendaring needs.
PhilanthropyGirl says
Thanks you. I use Google calendar to coordinate with DH – but it means lots of double entry. It’d be nice to eliminate that, and bullet journal might be a good solution.
MDMom says
Yes! The best thing is you can try it out for free using any notebook you have lying around. Then buy a nicer/dedicated notebook if you like the method. I’ve been doing it for a month and I am sold.
EP-er says
I have never heard of a bullet journal, but I’m excited to try one out come Oct 1! Some of the examples seem a little…. more creative? than I am, but I really like this concept.
Katala says
Bullet journal!
Katala says
oops, should have refreshed before replying but +1 to bullet journal. When I have time I draw a calendar to jot down appointments and other commitments, but I need those in an electronic calendar as well so I get reminders. When I’m busy, it’s just a to-do list. That’s why the flexibility is great for me – when I have time for more (shopping lists, house search organization, packing list, travel info are some recent “collections”) it works well for that too.
Anons says
Like MDMom, I also use a bullet journal. It just really works for my work habits and I like having a place to jot notes and list. I also work better with paper over electronic.
Here is my system:
*BULLET JOURNAL: This is my day to day task manager. I write out my to-do lists, keep track of my billable hours, and jot down random notes (like a list of “here are all the things I want in my dream house”). The flexible format works really well for me. I do not use it for calendaring except for big, long-term planning items that I do write in the calendar portion.
*OUTLOOK CALENDAR: I do use my Outlook calendar to track appointments and meetings during work hours. That way, everyone in my organization can see when I am available for a meeting. I also rely pretty heavily on my outlook notifications to dial in to conference calls, etc. Occasionally I add in things during non-work hours when I want to get a reminder about it on my work phone.
*FAMILY WALL CALENDAR: We keep a big family calendar at home on the kitchen wall. (This thing is big, like 3 feet tall to display one month). This calendar keeps track of my child’s activities, days that my husband or I am going to be out of town, weekend family events, and evening events outside of work hours. Occasionally I am duplicating appointments in Outlook and on the family calendar, but generally these are kept separate (one for work hours and one for family hours and obligations).
This system works pretty well for me. I’ve experimented with other things (including trying to do a family Google calendar, but we would never keep it updated).
PhilanthropyGirl says
Thanks – it’s helpful to hear the whole system. Right now I feel like I’m juggling wall calendar, google/outlook calendar (mine are sync’d so I don’t have to do double entry for work and DH), monthly/day calendar and a to-do list and I never keep everything updated well. It sounds like a bullet journal plus outlook calendar might streamline things.
Francophile says
I bought a $10 weekly/monthly planner at the drugstore (but it’s cute!), with a notes section in the back for longer-term reminders to self (often stupid stuff like “X’s birthday present is in the closet in our room, don’t buy another one”). To keep up with shorter-term stuff, I paper clip a weekly to do list to the week’s page as well as writing specific work assignments, appointments, etc. on the actual day. Bullet journaling totally overwhelmed me and this seems to be less work.
ANP says
I am super late to this thread but feel compelled to tell you about my new discovery: Day Designer! I LOVE the pages — monthly spread behind a tabbed page, with dated daily pages for calendar and to-dos. We have a shared family Google calendar and I also keep a work calendar for my team to view, but my Day Designer has totally changed my life. I use it to plan my days/weeks and have found myself with a much better grip on my schedule since adopting this system.
PhilanthropyGirl says
Thanks! This popped up in my search for best planners but it’s always better to hear from an actual user!
Anonymous says
That Metafilter article on the Default Parenting thread is SO SO good – totally worth the read.