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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 93 Comments · by

Finally Friday: Loafer Flat

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Kate Spade Women\'s Shoes Kate Spade Carima Black Crackled Metallic Flats LoafersHappy Friday! These black patent loafers (apparently with a bit of irridescence, to read the glowing review on Nordstrom) look like that rare bird: on trend, comfortable, and good for both work and play. Wear it with cropped pants and skirts while the weather’s nice; it’ll look great with tights as it gets colder also. They come in a TON of colors, all with glowing reviews, at Nordstrom, Zappos, and Amazon (as low as $110!) — at full price they’re $250. kate spade new york ‘carima’ loafer flat (L-all)

Sales of note for 9.10.24

(See all of the latest workwear sales at Corporette!)

Kid/Family Sales

  • Carter’s – Birthday sale, 40-50% off & extra 20% off select styles
  • Hanna Andersson – Up to 50% off all baby; up to 40% off all Halloween
  • J.Crew Crewcuts – Extra 30% off sale styles
  • Old Navy – 40% off everything
  • Target – BOGO 25% off select haircare, up to 25% off floor care items; up to 30% off indoor furniture up to 20% off TVs

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Comments

  1. Momata says

    Perfect segue into my burning question of the week: what is the current conventional wisdom on what sort of shoe should be worn with tights? I LOVE black tights and wear them with wool skirts and with my skirt suits in the winter. (Not for truly “men in white shirts only” business formal, of course.) I have pointy flats, flat oxfords, black and taupe Chelsea boots, black pointy-toed ankle booties, and black flat boots that hit me a few inches below the knee, as well as a full assortment of pumps in black flat and black patent. What is the right answer these days?

    • Anonymous says

      Booties are my list to buy for fall for exactly this purpose but I would still mix it up with pumps occasionally so it’s not booties + tights + skirt five days a week.

    • HSAL says

      I’m really picky about what I wear with tights. Some booties are okay, as long as the vamp is low enough. I really hate Chelsea boots so those would be a no for me. I like pumps with some type of t-strap or mary jane, but that’s mainly because my feet will slip out of pumps, but I think most flats work okay.

    • MDMom says

      Any of those are fine! I think short boots are more on trend than tall boots right now, and flats/oxford/loafers are all pretty timeless.

      • TBK says

        Agreed. Wearing black tights with black riding boots right now. Probably not super trendy, but nothing I own is. I think as long as the tights are fine enough to not have thick bunching where they go into the shoe, any shoe is fine. If they are thicker, you typically want a heavier shoe. Bunchy folds don’t look good squishing into delicate pumps.

    • Anons says

      What about an oxford shoe with a stacked heel? Not quite a boot, but a similar look. I’m on the hunt right now for a good pair for this fall, so I might be biased here.

    • sigh.... says

      I was just thinking about this! My tall boots and pointy flats are feeling dated, and I don’t really want to wear pumps all winter. Going shopping for some short boots now.

      • dc mom anon says

        Any favorite wedge bootie recommendations? I am trying to edge up my look a bit.

          • H says

            +1! Just bought the desert wedge. Haven’t worn them yet, but they are cute to me.

        • CPA Lady says

          I recently got the Ugg Meredith on 6pm. They’re $80 and have a shearling footbed. I can’t wait ’til it’s cool enough outside to wear them.

        • lsw says

          I really like Antelope. They are a great price point for leather and hold up decently. They are also very comfortable.

  2. PhillyGator says

    It’s really helpful to see all of the advice above regarding what types of shoes to wear with tights. For those of us not quite fashionably inclined, would someone mind sharing an example of a riding boot or a bootie that would work with tights in an office setting?

  3. Two careers says

    Looking for wisdom (if anyone has any) on managing the two career household. My husband and I do very similar work in very similar roles at different organizations. This means there can be a constant flow of subtle jealousy — nothing big, but for example his month is total booked with travel (including travel overseas) for speaking engagements but I haven’t gotten a single call in ages, meanwhile I got invited to join a prestigious project but he hasn’t gotten the same invitation. It also means that no one’s job is primary, which can make juggling a challenge. He has some anxiety issues and they tend to manifest themselves as him feeling insecure about his work and needing to put in extra hours at the office. This often directly cuts into my ability to put in extra hours since we have kids. Also, I feel like he often assumes that he can go to the office anytime he’s not expressly watching the kids. So for example, he asked if we have plans Sunday then announced he’s going into the office for the afternoon. This would so not fly if I did the same thing, and that makes my blood boil. It’s fine to say “I have some work I should do — if I went to the office Sunday, would that work” but that’s totally different that announcing he’s going to work just because we don’t have plans (except of course the plans to take care of our small children). He also has never ever spent a whole day alone with our children. He always has his mom or someone else around to help, meanwhile I spend at least one whole day alone with them every weekend. Or often I plan to since he’s said he’s going into work, then it turns out he’s just hanging out in the basement watching videos while I’m stuck with the kids. I love the kids. I love having time with them. But with two small children, it can be unfun to be alone with them for long periods since even just running an errand with them in tow is a hassle. On the one hand, I respect that he sometimes has extra work to do. And I realize that his anxiety issues make work extra stressful for him. But on the other hand, I feel like my work takes second place and I resent the fact that the kids and I pay the price for his anxiety while his employer only benefits (he never feels the need to put in extra work at home — yay I don’t make him anxious but I really wish if he were going to work extra I’d sometimes see the benefit from that extra work, not have it just make more work for me.) Sometimes I wonder if having two equally ambitious people is really a good mix.

    • Anonymous says

      This isn’t an issue about two equally ambitious people. It’s an issue about two people with unequal roles in the home.

      I’d suggest you each have an assigned weekend day where you are the default parent. And if on his day, he disappears into the basement – bring down the kids – leave and run your errand.

      • Two careers says

        I got him to agree to get up with the kids one morning each weekend and to do bedtime once each weekend. He tends to prefer to do both on Sundays. But now he complains bitterly about how much he hates Sundays, that Sundays just ruin his whole weekend and make him miserable. Then his miserableness carries over into the whole rest of the day, and often into the week. I’ve told him that I’m okay with him taking a half day each weekend for himself, because he is seriously so miserable if he gets no me time on the weekend and he becomes irritable and awful for the whole week and complains about how unhappy he is with his life. If he gets an afternoon to do whatever he wants, his outlook is much better. Is it fair? No. But it’s worth it to me because the alternative is too miserable. And this all makes him sound terrible. He’s not. I love him and overall we have a great marriage. So my options were give him a half day, have him be miserable and make everyone else miserable, or divorce. But especially because he already gets “me” time, and he already gets at least 10 more hrs per week at the office than I get (both because of family/household stuff and because my commute is close to 3x what his is) it is really hard to stomach him also needing time on the weekend. And if it were just a time-limited project that would be fine, or if I felt he really needed to do the work, I could handle it. But I believe that this is driven by his fear that he’s inadequate and that he’s a fraud and so he deals with it by spending more time at work.

        • Anonymous says

          But you also need a break and that’s not less valid than his anxiety needs. He needs to realize that you can’t do this all on your own and you can’t spend your life tiptoeing around him. Perhaps couples counselling?

        • Anon in NYC says

          Have you had this conversation with him? It seems like there are both anxiety and default parent issues and like his behavior is leading to a lot of tiny resentments for you (I would feel resentful too).

          • MDMom says

            I agree that there are multiple issues here. And Im curious what his response is when you complain about this stuff.

            Re similar weekend issues (but my spouse does not have anxiety), I basically mimic my husband behavior. I deliberately try to make plans with a friend for lunch or something like that on a weekend. Then I inform him that I am having lunch with x at 1 on Sunday. And I do, and it helps immensely just to have some time to myself where he is handling the kid.

            But, if he end up inviting his mom over to help or whatever…you need to let that go, in my opinion. I know you want him to handle the same responsibility you handle so he gets it. But his way of handling it is to call in help. Presumably you could call in help too but you choose not to, which is fine (but maybe worth trying to emulate him in that way also to even the burden?). I used to resent the same trait in my husband but that’s where I’ve come to accept it. Caring for small kids is exhausting and not everyone can handle it alone. In many many cultures where multi generational families are the norm, they wouldn’t have to. In sum, I guess. My suggestion is that the way to alleviate the burden is for you to be more like him, because you can’t make him be more like you.

          • SC says

            +1 to you calling in help. I have accepted that that is DH’s way of coping with being alone with our small child, and I have started embracing it where possible. Sometimes DH asks his parents to help me, and he just phrases it as, “I need to work, Wife has been home with Son a lot, and she needs to get some other stuff done.” One of the grandparents will come over and read some books or whatever for an hour while I empty the dishwasher and fold the laundry (in peace and quiet), and it helps tremendously.

          • MDMom says

            One more thought– I think the gentlest and least anxiety-inducing way you could possibly approach this would be to use positive reinforcement. So, do as suggested and schedule your own personal/work time without asking him, but then talk about how wonderful it was to see X after so long or how helpful the time at the office was so that you feel all caught up for the upcoming week and tell him how much the kids love having time with him, things they told you they did with him that they liked (feel free to exaggerate and really pump him up). Tell him he’s a wonderful father. Just generally focus on pumping his ego about the positive things instead of criticizing or complaining about how he doesn’t do things the way you’d like. This is the least confrontational, most gentle option I can think of, which it seems is what you are looking for?

    • Kelly C. says

      So, so much commiseration. I am guessing you will get a lot of that on this board.
      *On the jealousy and competition within your careers, I think you tackle that as it comes. Try to do your best to support each other, be kind to each other, etc. This is typical marriage stuff that is covered by many books like the Five Love Languages, His Needs, Her Needs, etc. Many of these books have religious overtones that can be ignored, but basically do your best to show each other you care about one another and love each other.
      *Look up Kat’s recent post on Default Parenting, particularly some of the other items she links. Send some of that information to your husband and tell him that you want to talk about it.
      *The whole announcing that he goes into the office on Sunday flys for him because you let it fly. My own suggestion would be to do the same thing to him next week. The *exact same thing.* If he raises a fuss, raise your eyebrow and ask him: Did you check with me if we had plans last weekend? Yes. Did we have plans? No. Did you head into the office on Sunday to do work? Yes. So what is the issue here again? Or just leave. He will deal.
      *Better yet, plan a business trip or vacation where you are away for a week and he can take care of the kids. No one ever appreciates this kind of work until they are in the trenches doing it themselves. You need to give him opportunities to do everything that you do every once in awhile so that he appreciates what it is all about.
      *Outsource what you can. A housecleaner. Meal services and take-out. Start getting a periodic babysitter to give yourself a break.

      I don’t think anyone is “making it work.” Everyone just does the best they can. Two careers is very tough and I think most people have one career take a backseat from time to time or are making huge sacrifices in other areas, such as expensive nannies, housekeepers, no family dinners, etc.

    • Momata says

      I was with you on the issue being about your careers until the basement retreating part. This is about home, not about work. Would it work if you each said you get X kid-free hours on the weekend to use as you see fit, barring a true work emergency? Then he can decide if he works or goes in the basement, and you can also have some “me time.”

      • Katala says

        I like this idea. While, yes, it’s good you don’t cause him anxiety, it sounds like maybe he’s complacent about his job as a parent/member of the household and it could be good for him to feel a little more pressure on that front. Not that he should feel anxious about it, of course, but a little pressure could help steer some of his energy towards working on more house stuff.

        In addition to planning in some kid-free hours for yourself (or each taking a weekend day, I like that too), could you discuss the division of labor in a less abstract fashion? If you go to him with a list of tasks that need to be done on the weekend (errands/chores, but also daily stuff like preparing meals, bath, bedtime etc.) would he be open to trying to divvy them up? I think men are sometimes more task-oriented and “taking care of the kids” while of course work and something that must be done is abstract for them in a way that’s easier to ignore/let someone else (you) handle. If he had a list of tasks, maybe he would feel less like he could let those slide. Hugs. It’s so hard raising kids in a two career household.

        Oh, also, am I reading correctly that he’s been traveling most of the last month? Can you plan an overnight/weekend away for yourself? You certainly deserve it after that. Even if it doesn’t help with the husband issues, you need some time to recharge, too.

    • NewMomAnon says

      So…his anxiety is his problem. It is not your problem to accommodate it or manage it. He should be getting therapy, and if he won’t, you should get some yourself so you learn to put yourself first.

      As a logistical fix; pick nights/mornings/weekend periods when each of you are the “default” parent. If he wants to bail on his default parent time, he needs to line up back up care. From experience: in order to preserve your career, you have to be OK with him lining up back up care and not “fill in” for him.

      • Two careers says

        I get that his anxiety is “his” problem. And he does get therapy for it. But in reality, these things are never just the problem of one spouse. That’s just not possible. Unless the people get divorced. And there are a million reasons why I have no interest in divorcing him, including that overall I really like being married to him.

        • Anonymous says

          But his anxiety needs to be addressed to the point where it is not negatively impacting your family and it is currently at a level where it is negatively impacting your family. I can guarantee that your kids know he is not interested in spending time with them.

          You seem very defensive around the idea that he needs to step up to the plate in addressing his anxiety and taking on more responsibilities at home. There’s no magic solution here, when it comes to the house/kids, either you do it, he does it or you pay someone to do it.

          • Two careers says

            I think it’s that it’s often thrown out “that’s not your problem” or “you just have to tell him [x]” and honestly in a marriage, it’s not that easy. Not if it’s something you want to keep.

          • Anonymous says

            I didn’t once say it’s not your problem.

            It is however a problem that needs to be addressed and you both need to take responsibility to do that because it is clearly negatively impacting you and your children.

        • NewMomAnon says

          Oh, I didn’t mean you should divorce him (sorry you read it that way) – I meant that you shouldn’t walk on eggshells to avoid triggering his anxiety, and you shouldn’t downshift your career ambitions to accommodate his anxiety. You need to be able to form expectations of his role as a spouse and parent, and hold fast to those without a qualifier of “oh but his anxiety…”

          Because if you accommodate the anxiety, it will grow as big as two people can tolerate instead of him getting help when he personally is overwhelmed. I don’t know if that makes sense…but here is an example: my ex leaned heavily on me to make to make it possible for him to take on too much responsibility at work and outside of work. I was doing the “emotional labor” of absorbing some of his anxiety and picking up housework/errands/financial planning/ad-hoc therapy/picking up the pieces after his meltdowns, etc. Once a kid came along and we both needed to do emotional labor on behalf of the kid, and I couldn’t do his emotional labor anymore, everything broke because he couldn’t handle the additional anxiety being thrown back onto his plate.

          If instead, I had drawn a line in the sand before we had a kid and said, “No, it’s unreasonable for me to run in circles because you are scared, you need to go resolve that with a neutral third party,” I would have been spared the emotional labor of keeping him afloat and he would have had to deal with it personally at an earlier point.

          • CPA Lady says

            Speaking as someone with anxiety, I agree completely. It is actually better for me to not have my anxiety accommodated, by myself or anyone else, as uncomfortable as that makes me sometimes. I’m not saying my husband or therapist should be a rude jack@$$ and give me some compassionless “tough love”, but I agree that the more I give into my anxiety, the more it grows. As an example– at my worst, I was having really bad panic attacks about eating in public, and the only way I got them to go away was to go to therapy, take medication when things were bad enough, then repeatedly force myself to eat in public, and just practice breathing through the panic. My husband was there for sympathy and support, and we had a word I could say when I was really Freaking Out Badly, but I still had to do it.

            It is hard when it feels easier to be “compassionate” about something in the short term, but sometimes it feeds a bigger long term problem. If my husband had said “you know, I know eating out is too hard for you, let me just get takeout”, that would have felt good in the moment, but not helped at all in the long run.

            Also, OP, has your husband looked into to taking medicine? It doesn’t have to be a permanent solution, but it helped me a lot to just get my head on straight enough for therapy to help. I took it for about a year.

          • Anonymous says

            If he’s on meds, is he doing therapy? Is it working with his therapist or does he need to try a new therapist? How long as he been on meds? Does he need to change medication or dosage etc. etc

            It reads like you came here looking for a specific kind of answer (not sure what that was), and, maybe it’s the internet, but your tone is coming off as annoyed at the responses you are receiving.

            Like CPA Lady wrote a thoughtful post in which she tired to be helpful and just noting that he’s on meds basically ignore the rest of her response.

          • Two careers says

            Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound annoyed. But the one question was whether he’d be open to meds and he’s on them already. As for other responses I do find that often when a woman is frustrated with her husband the answer is “it’s not okay for him to do that” or “that’s his problem not yours.” When I was still single I would have agreed wholeheartedly with this kind of response. But now that I’m actually married, I realize that there is no such thing as a problem that’s just a husband’s problem or just a wife’s problem. I mean, yes, but only if the answer is divorce. And I don’t mean to sound flippant about divorce. I’ve come to realize that for people from families with no divorce, divorce is almost never on the table. But every single person in my family is divorced so it’s always sort of in the air. And if it’s only his problem, that gives me nothing to work with. I mean, great, it’s a him problem. But I can’t make him do anything, so what I need is not to identify whose problem it is but what I can do about it. Or if it’s a problem I can’t do anything about, the answer is to live with it or get divorced.

          • NewMomAnon says

            I disagree with you, but I know where you’re coming from. For a very simplified example: if he had a big presentation, it isn’t your responsibility to prepare him for that. You might not even be able to prepare him for it, and you certainly can’t do the presentation for him. Anxiety is the same way; not only aren’t you responsible for his anxiety, you literally can’t manage it for him.

            Right now you are acting as though the “problem” of the kids belongs only to you and his anxiety belongs to both of you. Why not treat both as belonging to both of you, if it seems like a bridge too far to treat his anxiety as belonging only to him?

        • NewMomAnon says

          And *hugs.* These are really hard questions, and raise some scary possibilities. I know when I was struggling, I would not have been in a position to understand these comments or act on them. But print this thread off, keep it for another day, and let it sit with you.

          This change in your behavior likely isn’t a switch you can flip tomorrow or maybe ever if you try it alone, so I really encourage you to (a) break your own mindset down into smaller, achievable goals ( take it day by day or issue by issue) and (b) find a good therapist or life coach who can help you. It is completely, totally worth it to learn to manage your own response in the face of another person’s semi-rational behavior.

    • Anonymussed says

      First, go get yourself a hobby. With fixed hours, like a class (art or barre or a meetup.com or whatever). Assign yourself a fixed time per week for this hobby when he is watching the kids. Unfortunately you can’t tell him not to use his mom as backup, so he probably will.
      Then, tell him what his “me” time is. Say Sunday afternoons or whatever. That’s the time you are watching the kids alone. He can choose to use it for work, for fitness, or basement time, his call.
      The rest of the time on the weekend is family time when you BOTH spend time with each other and the kids – schedule walks, kids activities or whatever so that it’s understood it’s not “free” time but family activity time.
      On very very rare occasions (work emergency) he can use up some of the family time as “me” time but not every weekend.
      I’ll conclude by saying I’ve been there. To the extent of the mom helping out/never been alone watching the kids for a full day – it all sounds too familiar to me. #1 on my list above (hobby, with a physical, active component, and a socialization component) helped me maintain my sanity.

    • Lurker says

      What if you took baby steps at tackling the anxiety. Sit down together and tell him that you are becoming anxious at the thought of something happening to you and him not being able to handle the household on his own. What if you got sick or god forbid, died? Tell him that it makes you anxious to worry about work and friends when he needs to call in help anytime he is alone with the kids. Tell him that your anxiety will lessen if you can see him solo parent more, slowly at first, and building up to more time. Say that to do this, you are going to start by taking a one hour walk on the weekend where he has the kids himself, no help from grandparents. Frame it about helping you relax. If he has anxiety, he isn’t going to want you to feel that pain too.

    • SC says

      Lots of commiseration. I agree with a lot of the advice above. Mainly, it sounds like the two of you need to agree on some structure to your “me” time, your work time, and your family time. I also agree that you seem to be simultaneously walking on eggshells trying to accommodate your husband’s anxiety and resenting him for it.

      – I commented above on accepting help yourself, but I also think you should let go of your resentment that he calls in help when he would otherwise be alone with the kids. Whenever your needs are being met, accept and appreciate that and don’t worry about *how* it’s happening. I had to spend extra time getting ready this morning for a job interview, and DH fed Kiddo an unhealthy breakfast and dressed him in clothes that IMO are too warm for the weather. Oh well. I needed some time to myself this weekend, and DH had to work, and he shuttled Kiddo back and forth between his parents’ houses. Fine. If I cede responsibility, I don’t replace it with the emotional labor of worrying about *how* it’s done.

      – I agree that small children can be un-fun. But, especially once you have some structure, see what you can do to make your time alone with your kids easier for you. DH often works on Saturdays. I haaaaate long afternoons in our house playing with Kiddo’s toys and books. Last spring, I started taking Kiddo to a family member’s pool (and, bonus, often ran into other family members and their kids there). Now that the weather is finally cooling off, I’m taking Kiddo to the park and then to get frozen yogurt. I’m happier outside, he loves it, and it’s actually become (to me) our special fun time.

      – I actually don’t think a half-day to himself is unreasonable. It sounds like you need something similar. Would he agree to that? Would your MIL agree to come over for an afternoon each weekend, or could you hire a babysitter one half-day while BOTH of you take some time to yourselves? If that’s not possible, could you set aside nap time (if they still nap) or afternoon quiet time (maybe with a movie) and use that time to relax yourself? Our Kiddo takes long weekend naps, and more often than not, I’m in bed with him.

      – Would your husband run errands or work in the yard or whatever as his “me” time? If it’s just about getting away from work and the house, maybe he’d be happy enough grocery shopping or filling up the gas tank? My grandfather went to the grocery store every Saturday morning while my mom was growing up, and every single day once he retired. He also mowed his lawn way more often than he needed to. (I know this may not work for him, and it certainly wouldn’t for my husband.)

    • Jax says

      Chiming in to add a “from the other side” perspective of older kids (1st grade and up):

      – Every tough stage with kids seems to last 6 weeks before it’s resolved or replaced with something else. Example: the toddler who won’t let you cook dinner and just cries and clings to your legs. Within 6 weeks, he’ll be over it and be more interested in a toys than bugging you. By ages 3-4, both parents are exhausted and miserable and if you think back, it’s because you’ve slogged along in 6 week segments of one problem after another for a couple years.

      – There comes a point in raising kids where you just feel OVER IT. I also have a theory that this feeling comes in 6 week waves. My husband and I have both experienced it, and we acknowledge we’re really phoning it in with our family during those times. We want to be better, we want to care, but we just don’t have anything left to dig deep and give. These waves also either resolve themselves or are replaced with something else.

      – One day, the baby is gone and you have a serious-eyed elementary kid sitting across from you. Parenting switches from “babysitting” to “guiding” and, in my opinion, it becomes a lot more interesting. Instead of worrying about toilet issues and making endless snacks, you can talk about their friends/school/activities and you can do more with them. You’re not chained to the house and a routine, weekends feel more relaxed, and this is the age when you can really bond with your kids.

      – He says weekends feel miserable…can he narrow down WHY? Are you guys putting too much pressure on yourselves to be Perfect Parents? One of the things I couldn’t stand was Tuck In Time. It made me want to run screaming out of the room, and my husband and I had so many bitter fights about it. I hated the pressure of quieting down, reading devotions, turning music on, softly saying good night….because it NEVER went that way. The kids were always jerks, I just wanted the day to end already, and it felt like this parenting fail every night. We had to cut a lot of things out and accept that disciplining the kids before bed was more the norm than prayers and kisses. Once we gave up (sounds bad, but that’s kind of what we did) putting the kids in bed wasn’t so miserable anymore. So, if something is making him miserable, see if it’s a goal/pressure that needs to be adjusted.

      – When he’s escaping (work, the basement, 45 minutes in the bathroom) you have two choices. You can get really irritated and think how unfair it is. (I’ve done that too many times to count.) Or, you can scoop the kids up and decide to go somewhere without him. I find this the best option, because I get to do something fun with the kids and stop focusing on him, and 95% of the time it helps him because 1.) he gets the house to himself for a few hours, 2.) he hears about the fun time we had and always regrets that he didn’t get to go. Next weekend, he pulls it together and heads out with us.

      – Ask him, point blank, “Are you afraid to be alone with our kids? Does it make you uncomfortable to be the only one in charge?” At one point, *I* was secretly terrified of being left alone with the kids. They felt like ticking time bombs. Will someone get a boo-boo and start screaming at the top of their lungs for 10 minutes? Will it be one crying jag after another? I was afraid of being miserable, not being in control, losing my temper, etc. If he’s feeling the same way, you two can work on some strategies/coping tactics to help him feel more competent handing whatever the kids throw at him.

      • Two careers says

        Thank you. My husband keeps saying that when the kids are older (they’re preschool and toddler now) he’ll be better at being with them. Part of me gets this. This part of me understands how challenging they are and how physically exhausting, because I’m ALSO exhausted by them. But also I realize that I do honestly seem to get more from my interactions with them than he does, so in some ways it is actually easier for me than it is for him. But another part of me worries that actually each stage is equally hard and he’ll still be dragging his feet when they’re 8 and 10. But honestly I think he’s going to be an amazing dad when they get to that age. One of his best qualities is that he’s always willing to sit down, focus, and listen, without judgment, validating any feelings, and talking until the person talking has said everything that needs to be said. He’s incredibly patient in this way (much more than I am) so I feel hopeful that once we’re out of the diapers/screaming/staring at them to make sure they don’t accidentally kill themselves, it will be so, so much better.

      • ChiLaw says

        I do the thing about taking the kid somewhere fun when I start to feel resentful. My situation is different in a lot of ways, but the whole “ugh why does he *get* to ___ while I *have* to ___?” feeling is the same. Kiddo is only 20 months and she loves riding in a cart (please never stop loving that, kiddo!) so just running errands at Target, maybe stopping by Sbux for a treat, it can be a fun outing. Or I really pump up that we’re going on ~an adventure~ and take her somewhere walkable and we stroll up and down the sidewalk and poke into stores and say hi to people. Dad gets solid, relaxing alone time, I get to pat myself on the back for being a wonderful wife and mother, and kiddo gets an adventure.

        I also second the advice on just making a plan. “I’m going to ___ with R this weekend” and “R, C, and I are going to ___ in January, and I’m staying the night in ___.” are announcements I made this week. Honestly, it’s a bit of a hill to climb, convincing myself that not being on call is ok, that my time is as valuable as his — it doesn’t come naturally. I deserve some time to enjoy myself. After all, I’m the awesome mom who took her kid wandering around downtown last weekend! ;)

    • Meg Murry says

      You’ve already gotten a lot of good advice here, but I thought I’d add a little more:
      -I’m basically your husband, in a lot of ways. I have anxiety and major imposter syndrome when it comes to my job. That anxiety has caused me to get into anxious spirals where I spend too much time at work freaking out about how I can’t get anything done, I’m such a screw up, oh god I’m going to get fired if I don’t just get this thing done, etc.
      -Because of my anxiety and procrastination issues, work will expand to take the amount of time I let it. So if I let myself think that I can go into the office on Sunday to catch up, I won’t get as much done during the week. Then on Sunday I have an attack of the “I don’t wannas!” plus some more “I can’t do this!” imposter syndrome anxiety, and a burst of anxious perfectionism, and I spend hours tweaking something tiny and stupid and then still don’t have a final finished product. On the other hand, if I have a deadline and *can’t* work on Sunday because we have plans, 80% of the time I actually get sh*t done during the week, because I have to. It’s half joke but half true that if you give me 2 hours to bust out a report, I’ll do a pretty darn good report – if you give me 2 weeks to do a report, I’ll drag my feet on it, spend 40 hours “working” on it, and I’ll still do 90% of the work that really counts in those last few hours, and it will only be a tiny bit better than the 2 hour report.
      -Possibly the reason your husband hates Sundays is because that’s the day he feels like he’s simulatenously failing at everything – when he’s working, he feels guilty that he’s not with your family; when he’s with your family, he feels stressed or guilty about everything he intended to get done before Monday that hasn’t happened.

      I don’t know if any of this helps, but if your husband is like me and needs a little bit of deadlines or external pressure, you might get further ahead by *not* letting him off the hook. Make plans for Sunday, either for the whole family or just for you. Or give him a specific window of time for working like make whole family plans until 1:00 and then tell him you need him to watch the kids at 5:00 so you can go do X (which could be something fun for you, or it could be as simple as grocery shopping alone). The other thing that helps is that my husband and I each have certain pre-arranged days we are responsible for picking up the kids or being in charge of drop-off. So I know I can work late on Thursdays if I need to while he absolutely has to get the kids (short of major major work commitments that come from above his head), and he knows Tuesdays are the night he can plan to work late, or the night he can make plans with his brothers or friends without having to rush home.

      Does he work mainly with men who have stay at home wives, or lots of young single guys? Or the kind of place that puts a lot more stock in face time and/or butt in seat time? I think a lot of guys have internalized the idea that they have to be the breadwinner and “provide” for their family above all else, and are struggling to balance being a good 50s businessman as well as a good modern husband/dad – just like a lot of women struggle with balancing being a kick-a$$ career woman with keeping up with the mommy wars. It really s*cks to feel like you are failing at both family life and career simultaneously.

      And yes, I am seeing a doctor, and yes, I’m on meds – but I’m still working on dialing in the dosages, and I don’t know that I’ll ever get them perfectly balanced to keep my “give a sh*t” functioning without allowing my “OMG panic!” anxiety to overwhelm me.

      Hugs to you. Parenting, careers and marriage are all hard, and I think a lot of us wind up putting marriage at the very bottom of the pile far too often.

      • Two careers says

        Thank you. This is exactly what I hear from him. And I think you’re completely right about men feeling like they need to be breadwinners. I see work as being about work and about personal advancement (which can help the family but also can just result in a “good job” for the individual) and I forget that he sees his primary role as husband and father as being a good earner. Forget the fact that we earn the same amount. I guess I hadn’t ever really thought about how if he views himself that way, feeling like he’s falling behind at work IS feeling like he’s falling behind at home. Meanwhile, when he’s (over)stressing about work, I feel like he’s prioritizing his work over mine because Man. Then he asks why I always seem to think he doesn’t respect my work. Ugh. It’s so hard being human. It really is sometimes.

  4. MSJ says

    I just ordered a similar pair of Everlane Modern Loafers. For anyone in NYC considering them, they have a pop up shop in Soho where you can try them on. They do run small and their shipping/return policy is otherwise annoying. But they seem super sturdy and comfortable once broken in.
    M.Gemi is also running a Soho pop up a block north of Everlane. I tried on the Stellato, which I liked, but didn’t seem that it would be as durable as the Everlane loafers- important as I spend much of my day running between meetings/offices and need something that will stand up to the sidewalks of NYC

    • Potomac Ave DC says

      I am considering the everlane modern loafer myself!

      Any idea how they compare size wise to the chelsea boot? I have the chelsea boot and like them a lot, but I’m a size 11 and am wary of ordering the loafer bc they run “narrow.” Any idea if they are more narrow than the chelsea?

      • MSJ says

        I tried on the Chelsea boots very quickly but they seemed that they would have fit a half size smaller than the loafers. So boots = TTS whereas for the loafers I went a half size up from my of my shoes. I think the loafers max out at 11 (or at least the in store inventory).

        • Potomac Ave DC says

          Thanks for the response. That’s what I was thinking the difference would be based on reviews.

    • Anonymous says

      I have the modern point flats from Everlane and I wear them almost every day. Considering the loafers or oxfords so would be happy to hear reviews :)

      • MSJ says

        The modern points were more dainty (similar to the stellato), but I liked the modern loafer because the heel is very durable and stable. In general, I don’t mind the more masculine aesthetic although it won’t be as easy to pull off with skirts
        I don’t love the contrast sole on the modern loafers (since I forsee them being worn with black tights frequently) so I went with the tassel loafers which have a black sole.

        • Anonymous says

          Thanks! I wore out the heels in the modern points after about 6 months (but again, in fairness, I wear them all the time), and got them redone in regular black. I very tempted.

  5. Meg Murry says

    Oh wow, the “Multi Hologram” irridescent version of these shoes on Amazon & Zappos!?!

    I want those for Halloween. Or for random funsies. Not for $250, of course, and I probably would never really wear them even if they were cheap, beyond Halloween. But I do kind of want to put them on my feet and walk around and say “ooh, shiny” and laugh.

    Do people actually buy and wear this kind of thing? Where?

    I actually do like the look of the black ones, but they are way out of my budget, and they don’t come in wide widths. Anyone else want to go fall down the Zappos “you may also like” black hole with me, or have a recommendation for something that either runs wide or comes in wide widths and is a similar loafer/moccasin low heeled look?

    • Kelly C. says

      I wanted to fall down the black hole with you, but didn’t get a chance today! So much fun shopping for shoes.

  6. PregLawyer says

    Ugh, I’ve been really feeling the financial pinch lately with daycare costs. It’s just never ending and so much money (our daycare is $17k/year). We want to have a second kid, but I’m not sure how we’d find another $17k for daycare. Do I suspend our retirement savings? Do we dip into our emergency savings? Do we have to make some drastic life changes so that we can continue to max retirement accounts, save for college, keep contributing to savings, etc.? What do people do?

        • (was) due in june says

          Ditto. I find the “get an au pair” comments so freaking frustrating. I live in a HCOLA and I don’t have extra space for an employee. Congrats to everyone with big homes but that’s not what I can afford where I am.

          • Anonymous says

            This is an Amy Poehler “Good for you, not for me” moment.

            Lots of people don’t live in HCOLAs and your comment kinda implies the posters are annoying people by suggesting au pairs. It’s totally reasonable to suggest an au pair as a childcare solution unless an OP has mentioned they don’t have room for live in care. Not worth getting frustrated over.

          • Anonymous says

            TBK lives in DC, right? Not as bad as nyc/bay area/boston, but definitely up there. We could find space for an au pair if we wanted to (and I will try harder in a few years when my kids are in school and we can easily stay within the hours limits), but as a “know yourself” thing, my husband and I are private people with introvert tendencies. With the stress of young kids already, I think it would strain our sanity and marriage too much to share our smallish space (3br/2 bath, 1200 sqft) with an au pair right now, and for little payoff over daycare from a convenience/parenting philosophy standpoint.

    • Mrs. Jones says

      I’m too old to have another child,but I understand the pinching feeling. I don’t know how we’d afford a second one either. The cost is crazy.

    • Momata says

      Drastic life changes. I obviously don’t know your life or budget. But we have two kids at a similarly priced center. We don’t go on vacation. We don’t have any monthly subscriptions (cable, gym, Sirius, etc). We don’t eat out. We don’t buy expensive food, wine, or clothes. I figure now is our time to just be present with our kids and live simply, and there will be time later for the finer ornaments in life.

    • Anonymous says

      Space further apart? Start trying the year before your oldest goes to kindergarten so you have lower total childcare costs?

      • Meg Murry says

        I’d suggest a variation on this which is to aim for #2 when the oldest has around 1-1.5 more years of daycare left. Because unfortunately, our really good daycare gives a sibling preference for the infant spots – which means that my son got in off the waiting list over a family friend who’s kids had moved on to K and they no longer had sibling preference. We had to pay for 2X the daycare for a year, they had to pay for a nanny for the baby for a year instead of 1X the daycare.

        We also did pretty much all of your list – no college savings, minimal retirement contributions (only enough to not give up the company match), very minimal contributions to savings, plus got help from my parents.

      • Anonymous says

        Kindergarten doesn’t necessarily fix anything. In my area (LCOL area where many people spend more on daycare than on rent or mortgage), before and after school care for a kindergartner is almost as much as daycare for a three-year-old. Until they get to the age when they can ride the bus home and be home alone after school, you probably won’t see significant savings. I don’t have school-age kids, but a friend of mine said it was actually cheaper when her two and four year-old were at the same daycare (because of second child discount) than having a three-year-old in daycare and a kindergartner with having to pay for before and after school care.

        • Anonymous says

          Definitely area dependent. Our area public schools have full day kindergarten and in school after school care that is very inexpensive compared to daycare.

          5-6 year age gap is actually kind of great because the older child is often really excited to get a sibling but they are close enough in age to still play together somewhat without fighting over toys.

    • Anonymous says

      This is a big part of why I’m having only one child (but I’m a very happy only child myself so I don’t have”ACK! My daughter will die if she doesn’t have a sibling!” feeling that some people do).

    • MDMom says

      It’s not actually never ending though, unless you plan to send kid to private school? Can you just space them to eliminate/minimize time you have 2 in daycare?

    • Anon says

      Combo of drastic life changes (we’re like Momata above) and reducing savings. We only save to the company match in our 401ks. We are putting a minimal amount ($10/mo each) in college savings. Our emergency savings is untouched, but it’s not growing.

      We’ve also tried hard not to change our standard of living. Other than additional food/clothing/insurance expenses for kids, we aren’t spending more on “things” than we did 7 years ago. Our cars are old, but now paid off. We’ve funneled each bonus and raise into daycare and/or savings (in prep for kids).

      It sucks, but our future earnings are worth more than one of us quitting or going to part time, so we are making do right now. We both felt strongly that we wanted 2 children, whatever our financial situation, so it’s worth it to us to sacrifice a little now in order to have the family size we want.

      I’m just hoping school age is cheaper. But I worry about the costs of after-school care and summer care/camps. America is really really not friendly to dual-working-parents.

      • Anon in NYC says

        We’re similar. I took a huge pay cut just before my daughter was born. Our daycare is really expensive and we feel it every month. We have drastically reduced our fixed costs, and rarely buy expensive things anymore. I no longer max out my retirement savings (my husband still does), we contribute $100/mo to college savings, and we don’t contribute to our emergency savings. It stresses me out beyond belief, but we can (just barely) make it work, and I’m so so looking forward to public school.

      • Em says

        We do the same. Company match (and a little more) in our 401ks. I funded a 529 for my son but other than monetary gifts from family members we aren’t contributing much else, and our emergency fund is untouched, but we don’t add much to it. We are currently paying super high infant room costs so we will probably wait until he is around 18 months to even think about a second kid.

    • Spirograph says

      Yes, all of the above. I figure we’ll spend the same amount on childcare in absolute terms regardless of kid spacing, so were just plowing through and looking forward to having so much more money (or freedom to take salary cuts) when they’re all in school. We’re fortunate that we can afford it at all and that we don’t need to curtail our retirement savings, but basically all other saving, investing, and expensive fun, is on hold for now to accommodate 3x daycare cost. The pinch is real.

      (Yes, I realize there are cheaper childcare options, but this is the best choice for us.)

    • AB says

      You can seek out a less expensive daycare — or when the time comes, try to negotiate a bit on the “sibling discount.” It won’t solve the problem, but it might ease the burden slightly.

      And always place your retirement savings as a higher priority than college savings. There are no scholarships for retirement.

      • ChiLaw says

        I had the same thought re: “sibling discount.” I know the one that our daycare offers is very significant.

    • anon says

      Before you run the numbers, do find out whether your daycare has a sibling discount. Ours is MUCH cheaper per child for 2 kids. All that being said, I only have 1 child, in part because of the expense. Now that my son is in free pre-K, I can’t go back to spending all that money on daycare.

      • Spirograph says

        Also, it’s probably not $17k anymore for an older kid, right? Ours is about that much for infant care, but goes down to about $12k by the time the kid is 3.

    • Navy Attorney says

      Drastic – switch daycares to an in-home. Without that we couldn’t afford multiple children. We also get a sibling discount which helps a LOT. Also while the two are in daycare, we don’t max out the retirement, and our only vacation this summer was camping. This Christmas they’re receiving only things to they need (e.g., clothes. The only “restaurant” food we get is Dominos pizza ($8) or one of those enormous burritos from a truck. Knowing the end goal (public school in September!!!), keeps us going. Because it will end.

    • Ally McBeal says

      People scale back, do cheaper things, and stop saving. We kept our 401k contributions, but stopped saving to cover the childcare costs of two kids. It’s brutal, but it is temporary! (No private elementary school for me.)

    • ANP says

      Commiseration! We’re pinched financially for the next two years while our youngest (of three) finishes out her stint in daycare. We anticipate that in two years, she’ll start school with her sibs at the place where I work (which is a private school, but we pay SO MUCH in daycare that we’ll pay way less once she’s there) and my husband will be due for a significant promotion at work. It stinks. I actually posted on the main thread this week about the pros/cons of selling our house (and got some great advice) as a way to reduce fixed costs. I also need to just be OK with not adding to our cash savings right now. We’re still saving for retirement but housing and daycare eat up a ton of our income each month. Blerg.

    • Sarabeth says

      Dial back on retirement accounts for 1-2 years, and don’t worry about saving for college until the kids are both in public school. That’s our plan anyway, as we face two kids in daycare for the next two years (at $37k/year for those two years).

    • Jen says

      Our daycare is $22k/year ($1900/mo) for infants. There’s a bump down to $1600/mo at -5 months when they hit toddler and another down to $1400/mo at preschool. Plus a 15% sib discount. Childcare isn’t $44k for us with two, it’s $37k. Not reassuring, I know, but not exactly double. And for the 2 years we have double costs (before kindy) we reduced savings. Also, as we get more advanced in our careers, our annual increases > the annual increase in daycare.

  7. SC says

    A PSA I’ve been meaning to post. For those of you who travel with kids, especially young kids, please check a hotel room–drawers, closet, under the bed, etc.–for dangerous objects when you check in. My parents recently checked into a hotel room and found a handgun in a drawer under the TV, low enough for any small child to grab it. They did not handle the gun, so they don’t know whether it was loaded or whether the safety was on. They called the front desk, who called the local police department. The police removed it from the hotel room and are checking whether it has been used in a crime, etc. This hotel is expensive, marketed to families, and has a no-guns-in-the-room policy (but, of course, the hotel can enforce the policy only by asking the person to leave, i.e., it’s not a criminal offense to break the policy). The whole thing freaked me out, and I kept thinking, “What if we had been there with our toddler instead?” He LOVES to open drawers and pull everything out.

    • Lurker says

      That is so scary! You should post it on a new thread or the main weekend site too. Crazy.

    • NewMomAnon says

      I once found two prescription pain pills under the bed at a hotel. I looked up the markings and they were narcotics. God forbid a kid found one before an adult did….

    • ChiLaw says

      Holy moly that’s horrifying.

      We found a prescription pain pill in our hotel room too. Husband found it when kiddo picked it up and was about to eat it. Horror.

      (I suspect the hotel staff dropped it when they were stealing my husband’s anxiety meds. Not ideal all around.)

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