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A few years ago over at Corporette readers started singing the praises of Jag pull-on jeans. Like pajama jeans, I thought? I was a bit incredulous, but decided to try them after I had my second child. I can definitely see the appeal — they’re affordable, washable, and considering that there is a wide, pull-on waistband instead of a zipper and button, they’re vastly more comfortable for sitting. (They might be great if you’ve got a sensitive middle after a c-section — or if you’re early in a pregnancy but not into proper maternity pants yet.) They’re not pajama jeans, though (at least, not what I imagine pajama jeans are like) — the fabric for the legs is very thick; proper denim, cord or twill. One negative I’ll note is that while they’re comfortable, there’s no way to cinch them tighter if your waist is smaller than your hips — so if you’re sensitive about bending over and showing your bum (which for some reason seemed like it became a bigger issue after kids — maybe because I was always kneeling on the floor to play with them) — then these may not be the pants for you. Also, know your office –five-pocket styles are too casual for many conservative offices. Still: these pictured cords come in multiple colors, are machine washable, and are marked to $35 at Nordstrom — alas, apparently only available in petite sizes. (Lots of other Jag pants in regular sizes, though.) (The cords are available in plus sizes over at 6pm. Pictured: Jag Jeans ‘Peri’ Pull-On Stretch Corduroy Leg Pants
Psst: check out our guide to washable pants!
(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.10.24
(See all of the latest workwear sales at Corporette!)
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lands’ End – 30% off full-price styles
- Loft – Extra 40% off sale styles
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- Zappos – 26,000+ women’s sale items! (check out these reader-favorite workwear brands on sale, and some of our favorite kids’ shoe brands on sale)
Kid/Family Sales
- Carter’s – Birthday sale, 40-50% off & extra 20% off select styles
- Hanna Andersson – Up to 50% off all baby; up to 40% off all Halloween
- J.Crew Crewcuts – Extra 30% off sale styles
- Old Navy – 40% off everything
- Target – BOGO 25% off select haircare, up to 25% off floor care items; up to 30% off indoor furniture up to 20% off TVs
See some of our latest articles on CorporetteMoms:
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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- The concept of “backup care” is so stupid…
- I need tips on managing employees in BigLaw who have to leave for daycare pickup…
- I’m thinking of leaning out to spend more time with my family – how can I find the perfect job for that?
- I’m now a SAHM and my husband needs to step up…
- How can I change my thinking to better recognize some of my husband’s contributions as important, like organizing the shed?
- What are your tips to having a good weekend with kids, especially with little kids? Do you have a set routine or plan?
leaky kindergartener says
Reposting since I posted late last night.
I miss diapers. I have a child who should be potty trained (age-wise) but is <100% potty trained and has been stuck there for years (and we've gone to all of the drs and there's no medical or developmental issue, and I'm not sure if that is comforting or distressing). At any rate, she will dribble in her underwear when she is doing something she wants to do or just forgets and is oblivious that the starts to smell when she is damp-to-wet. I am living in fear of travel — cloth chairs, other people getting grossed out, etc. I put her in a underjams overnight (and that holds it in; previously I traveled with waterproof mattress covers and remade the bed) but the daytime is so yucky.
If any of you have lived through this, any thoughts / advice / strategies? The only thing that helps is putting her in just a dress at home (she doesn't like pee running down her legs), but we can't do that if people are over or we are out and about.
We’ve been to her pediatrician and a pediatric urologist, so there is no physical problem with daytime wetting (nighttime wetting isn’t as much of an issue — we won’t expect that it will happen in anything other than in due time).
In my area, summer birthday children are routinely put in TK but when we did testing my daughter was otherwise ready to go to kindergarten as a young 5 year old. We sent her and she comes home damp every day and smells and I am so, so worried that she will be kicked out of summer camps this summer for not staying dry (and I am the breadwinner). I wish I’d held her back from regular school b/c daycares / TKs seem to be better for non-dry children, but I thought it was crazy to hold a mentally ready child back from kindergarten b/c they won’t stay dry.
Right now my backup plan are those light bladder leakage pads they sell for older / incontinent grownups b/c I think they will help with odor control.
Diapers says
There are therapists that specialize in toilet training – maybe see if one is in your area?
K. says
I have pelvic floor issues myself, so that is why this comes to mind: you might see if you can find a physical therapist that specializes in pelvic floor issues (finding a specialist is really important here) and get her evaluated for that. Most doctors and urologists don’t specialize in pelvic muscular issues, so it isn’t on their radar to look for it, but it might be causing problems. Check out the book Heal Pelvic Pain by Amy Stein. It has a chapter on issues with children that may be helpful as well. It might now have anything to do with that, but it might be worth looking into.
leaky kindergartener says
IIRC from the ped urologist who did before / after ultrasounds, she doesn’t always go all the way to empty. And at home, when I get her to go, she will often go into the bathroom and just flush the toilet to consider it to be done (so, old enough to be deceptive and yet not old enough to appreciate how her being wet/smelly affects others’ perceptions of her).
My slightly older-than-her daughter had a wildly different potty training experience.
Meg Murry says
Ok, then this sounds like a power struggle that has now devolved into a physical issue (she used to hold it just because she could, which now means she doesn’t have complete control anymore). So I’m seconding the advice to go to the school guidance counselor first to see if they have advice about the power struggle/timing aspect. Maybe the counselor could also advise how to deal with this in general (I’m thinking of phrasing about being honest, and since she isn’t being honest with mommy and telling the truth about going potty when mommy asks, she’s lost the right to privacy in the bathroom or lost some other privilege? But again, a counselor/professional would probably be better to make sure she doesn’t just dig in heels further.)
If possible, could you do some kind of rewards chart and/or emphasis on sitting on the toilet and/or dry pants? So don’t focus on “you need to go potty now” just focus on “you need to sit on the toilet for 10 minutes now”.
K. says
Not emptying totally was a symptom of my pelvic floor issues and was caught in an ultrasound too (technicians totally mocked me for it…which was fun…) but finally understood by the right therapist, although I agree with Meg that it could at the same time related to power struggle also. But if you do that often enough, it can create muscular issues in that the muscle memory gets used to not emptying and causes more problems.
Meg Murry says
Is there any chance she’s constipated? My son started having constipation issues when he started all day-K, because he really didn’t like the bathrooms at school, was shy about asking to go when it wasn’t a break time (he was told no harshly once by a sub and it scared him from asking again) and during class break times the teacher is hurrying the kids and saying things like “who’s goofing around in there, hurry up!” (which is complete valid when kids are in fact goofing around, not getting in, peeing and getting out, but not good for a kid who is actually trying to poop), and it also didn’t help that his feet didn’t touch the floor in the bathrooms they were in. In his case, it didn’t manifest as wetting, but more issues with where he would have slight poop stains every few days (and a couple of poop accidents in K) because “he didn’t feel it” due to holding so long.
Luckily, his case hadn’t gotten too severe, so we instituted 1-2 prunes a day and required sitting on the toilet for 10 minutes each morning and night, which helped keep him regular (and get him on a bit of a schedule).
I also agree with the question about pelvic floor issues K. brings up – after 2 kids and some exercises I’m generally ok, but (sorry for the TMI) I have to wear a light pad or heavy pantiliner when I have a cold because sneezing or coughing almost always = slight leakage for me.
Or could this also just be an issue of either she waits until too long and therefore gets a few drops in her panties when running to the bathroom and/or she isn’t wiping thoroughly and/or the school has an issue with running out of TP and she hasn’t learned to check the stalls first?
Does the school have a guidance counselor and could you start there with getting some advice, seeing if this is a situation s/he has dealt with and for someone you child could talk to if it is a situation where child fears getting in trouble or is afraid of the loud bathrooms, etc? And could you find out if the teacher has potty breaks scheduled into the day or if she is relying on the kids to just tell her? If there aren’t breaks, could you ask if your daughter be put on a “go take a potty break once an hour” schedule? Or is there any chance that the issue is something like not going before getting on the school bus to go to aftercare, etc?
As for fearing travel yourself, could you consider some of the heavier “training pants” that are basically underwear with a cloth diaper insert or even waterproof cover over the underwear?
https://www.etsy.com/listing/255968902/toddler-underwear-trainers-girl?ref=market
Pogo says
That makes me so sad to hear about kids getting yelled at when asking to use the bathroom/getting told to hurry up, especially as kindergarteners!
It reminds me of middle school when I dreaded having my period in terms of mean hall monitors/teachers who thought you took too long in the bathroom. Yes, some kids use ‘bathroom’ as an excuse to goof off/get out of things/get into trouble, but what about all the kids with legitimate health needs??
Katala says
Ugh, I hate this. My little brother had some issues around toileting and in HIGH SCHOOL a teacher would not let him go, so he wet his pants in front of the class. I still get so ragey when I think about it.
I realize there is a lot to pay attention to as a teacher, but you can really screw things up by scaring kids about the bathroom and I wish there were more awareness.
leaky kindergartener says
Is it a power struggle with everyone? I can see that with the typical 2-year old, but she’s otherwise compliant in school and daycare before that (and this would have been with every daycare teacher she’s had since she was in the 2s room, too; the sweet lady who ran the day care for 20+ years had never seen anything like it even with the children who had developmental issues (one girl with down syndrome really struggled, but eventually got it)) and doesn’t have any trouble doing anything else.
I did ask the school (public) if she could be in the K rooms with bathrooms b/c of this and they assigned her to the one room without one (but with a teacher I love who is not unsympathetic). There is a guidance counselor, but she seems to be overwhelmed with a school population that often needs winter coats and the school psychologist tends to not see problems unless they are causing academic impairment. They are not bad people, but overwhelmed, it seems.
I’ve tried letting her use the ipad on the potty so she will linger (and buying baby food pears to add roughage), but that only works at home (and usually she just goes, except for the 1, 2, 3 times a day when she doesn’t).
I guess if she gets kicked out of camp I can get a summer nanny and deduct that from the college fund ???
Anon says
Threadjack, did anyone have a baby registry on amazon.com? How does the completion discount work when items are from other retailers? TIA!
Anon in NYC says
Not everything is subject to the discount. I can’t remember precisely what is or isn’t, or how that is determined, but there were definitely items where I couldn’t use the discount.
Anonymous says
Terms and Conditions:
1. The Completion Discount begins 60 days prior to the Baby Arrival Date you entered in your Baby Registry and expires 90 days after the Baby Arrival Date. Amazon reserves the right to cancel the Completion Discount at any time.
2. To receive a 15% discount, you must be an Amazon Prime member at the time you redeem your registry completion discount and the primary registrant.
3. The Completion Discount may be used only one time for one order of up to an aggregate of $5,000 USD (a maximum discount of up to $500 USD).
4. Only eligible items displayed in the Completion Discount View in your Baby Registry qualify for the Completion Discount.
5. The Completion Discount applies only to items sold by Amazon.com. It does not apply to the same items sold by other sellers.
6. The Completion Discount may only be redeemed through the Amazon account of primary registrant of the Baby Registry.
7. You may not use another Completion Discount for 8 consecutive months following the use of a Completion Discount.
Anon says
I had an amazon registry. I buy 80% of the stuff I use in my life off Amazon so it just made sense. I would say about 60-70% of the items were eligible for the completion discount, but I couldn’t figure out the rhyme behind what was or wasn’t. A lot of our big-ticket items were (monitor, high chair, etc.), but I know for a fact diapers were not, nor were any specialty items (we registered for a Tula carrier that is only sold through Tula and that was not eligible). You get the discount code a month or two before your due date and can continue to add and delete stuff off your registry so you can fiddle with what is and isn’t eligible (one of the high chairs we were initially considering was not eligible for the discount so I deleted it and added a different one that was eligible). Overall, I was really happy with my Amazon registry. They also send you a decent “welcome kit” with some good samples.
Anon says
Thank you!!
PregLawyer says
Check and see if they still do a welcome kit – I think they discontinued that. Just saying because I was a bit disappointed when I didn’t get one last year.
Anon says
I just got mine about 2 months ago. You have to either complete all their categories or mark that you already have/don’t want the items, but it took me like 8 minutes to do.
October says
Interesting! Possibly a silly question, but how/where do you mark that you don’t want the items? I see the option to delete, but is there something else?
Legally Brunette says
We get something from Amazon on pretty much a daily basis, so when I was expecting we signed up for an Amazon registry and Buy Buy Baby. As much as I love Amazon, I didn’t love the registry. When you’re newly expecting, I think the tendency is to sign up for more things than you really need, and going through the process of returning stuff was a hassle (and not always free return shipping, which is annoying). I found it infinitely easier to just go to Buy Buy Baby and return a bunch of stuff at once.
For the big ticket items (crib, stroller, carseat) it was actually cheaper to buy at Buy Buy Baby with the 20% coupons they are always giving out than Amazon.
If you end up doing Amazon, I would supplement with a brick and mortar registry as well.
Anon says
Thank you!! That is such a great point about returns being difficult for amazon. Unfortunately there is not a Buy Buy Baby near us and the 20% off coupons exclude the brand of stroller and carseat that we are interested in. The stroller and carseat are available on amzon (through amazon and not a third party) so I am hopeful that they are not excluded from the completion discount.
Anon says
I am the anon that posted at 11:14 that I really liked my Amazon registry. I think Legally Brunette makes a good point that I didn’t mention. We also registered at Babies R Us because we knew that a lot of people (particularly older relatives) were not going to like an online registry. I also hate returning stuff to Amazon, so I was pretty conscious about which items I put on which registries, and made sure I did my research on items (or didn’t care if something didn’t work well) before I registered for it on Amazon. As a result, we didn’t return anything from our Amazon registry, even though I returned plenty of stuff to Babies R Us, as well as other miscellaneous stores.
AIMS says
On the off chance that the stroller/carseat you like is by UppaBaby (which is excluded from BBB coupons) I just wanted to say that their strollers are sold at Saks and some other high end department stores, as are some other “fancy” strollers, and there usually aren’t any exclusions from their promos and you can stack discounts. I think I bought ours when they were doing one of those spend $500, get $150 back deals and had a 10% off coupon, so the stroller ended up being more than $100 off. During Friends & Family sales, you can get 20% off. Of course, if you want someone to buy it off your registry, that might not be helpful, but if you’re planning to buy it yourself or have a close relative like a parent – it’s a good idea to look into.
I got our UB car seat from a store called PishPoshbaby. They have a website and really lovely customer service. They also have an exclusion for some brands on their coupons but I placed the carseat into my “cart” online before I realized it and then they kept emailing me to buy it so I called customer service and they said they could honor the discount on the phone, plus do free shipping and – bonus – b/c I live in NY and they’re in NJ, there was no sales tax. If you’re in a state w/o a Saks, you also don’t pay sales tax, btw. Anyway – this all sounds way too complicated now that I wrote it out but we ended up saving about $200+ this way and I figured I’d share.
Anonymous says
I purchased the UppaBaby Cruz with the Amazon completion discount
Anon says
As someone who has had to buy at bunch of registry items from Buy Buy Baby over the years: they are often more expensive than other places (especially Amazon) and they charge a hefty shipping fee for not fast service. The selection is great and they often have specific items that are otherwise hard to find, but man, those extra costs really burn me.
AIMS says
I also hate buybuybaby registries when I have had to order off them. I can see why people prefer them to babies r us or amazon but it’s a pain for guests unless you have a store nearby and can buy something that way. For me the nearest BBB is in a totally inconvenient location.
AEK says
I have no personal experience with these pants, but as a caveat to the post-caesarian suggestion, that large horizontal seam above the fake fly looks like it could be problematic for still-tender C-section scars. I had trouble even with many kinds of yoga pants for the same reason. In general wide waistbands are heaven but not if they start too low.
Preemie Mom says
+1 – I was unable to wear any of my maternity jeans postpartum for this reason. The horizontal seam that connected the jeans material to the stretchy belly band material was at the exact height of my c-section scar.
jogger strollers and off-roading says
Would a jogger stroller also work for walks (or runs, I suppose) in the park? Most of our park trails are not paved, so it would be over leaves/dirt/etc. They seem to have sturdier tires, but I haven’t used a jogger stroller before. (Or any stroller – first time mom.) We’re planning on getting a light stroller, a bigger one for regular use, and a jogger, and I’d prefer not to get a FOURTH stroller if I don’t have to.
EB0220 says
I think a jogging stroller would be fine on a smooth dirt trail. Mine is fine on dirt, mud and grass. I am going to assume you’re not planning to take it on actual single track trails with roots and rocks, which is not a place for any stroller.
jogger strollers and off-roading says
Right, totally – I’m talking calm, flat trails that just happen to be covered in leaves instead of asphalt.
just get the BOB says
I highly recommend the BOB stroller with the moving wheel (that you can lock). I intended to become a runner, but walk trails / parks with New Yorker walking speed pushing one, then 2 kids in my BOBs.
Anonymous says
This. I routinely use our BOB over much rougher terrain than you are describing, OP. It handles it totally fine.
MDMom says
I would expect a jogging stroller to be fine. I don’t run but we have the BOB motion- a regular folding non-jogging stroller that has air filled tires and connectors for britax car seats. I think it would be fine on packed dirt trails. But if you are getting a jogging stroller anyway, no reason not to use that.
Personally, I wouldn’t buy that many strollers before kid is born. It’s hard to get a feel for what you actually will want/need/use. Get one that you expect to be most useful right away and hold off on the rest until you’re more sure of what you need.
NewMomAnon says
I have the Britax B-Agile, and it’s fine on packed dirt trails in my local park. I also use it for jogging, but am not running competitively with the stroller (or at all…). I wouldn’t take the Britax deep into the wilderness or even on long walks over grassy surfaces; that is where I would use a baby carrier (front carrier or wrap for little baby, back carrier for older baby/toddler).
For reference, I have two strollers; an umbrella stroller that I keep in the trunk of my car for mall trips or visiting grandma, and my Britax, which I use when walking around the neighborhood or taking a longer walk. I don’t know why you would need both a big stroller and a jogger, frankly, unless you are going to be setting personal records while running with the stroller.
Anonymous says
I had just the umbrella and the BOB. The umbrella was kept in the car for emergencies (like if the car broke down), but I didn’t use it a whole log until I had two in daycare and used it mainly for the bebe when dropping off the older one first. Worth the $20 I paid for it. The BOB was priceless and used in our Arlington VA-type neighborhood for several hours every weekend day for years. I did a couple of slow 5Ks in it but did not otherwise run (too pregnant with second child) with it.
anon says
I would recommend skipping the “regular” stroller altogether and just getting either a thing that lets you clip the carseat into the jogging stroller, or a cheap (especially from craigslist) snap-n-go. YMMV but we were able to use put the baby in the umbrella and jogging strollers by 4.5 months (for walking, not jogging, and with our pediatrician’s approval – we had an early sitter). Mostly used an Ergo anyway as it turned out.
jogger strollers and off-roading says
Thanks! I tend to be an over-preparer, so I like the idea of only having two strollers. The foldable, light one is non-negotiable as we live up a ton of stairs, but I knew I needed a sturdier one, too. Good to know I can go two for one with just getting a jogger style. And yeah, I’m definitely not going to be setting any landspeed records – just want to be able to go out for a leisurely run.
jogger strollers and off-roading says
I should say, I like knowing that I was being silly for thinking I would need more. That was confusing.
A spa for mama.... says
I posted last week about taking a solo spa trip and was pretty much unanimously encouraged to do so! I just wanted to update everyone — I just booked two nights at a nearby spa/resort.
After crunching the numbers for a fancy spa in Arizona, I couldn’t justify the expense (over $1000/day, without including travel, I had misread the per day cost as the three day cost!!!) and the travel time given the unpredictability of work and/or family. BUT I’m so excited about having two nights and two mornings to myself. No sunbathing, but I got a room with a fireplace.
Thanks for all the ‘”Just Do It” responses — I don’t think I would have done it without them!
Betty says
That’s great!! Please please report back after you go so that we can all live vicariously through you!
Sarabeth says
Sounds great. For me, the travel would cancel out lots of the benefits of the spa, so close to home sounds nicer anyway.
Mrs. Jones says
For future reference, many ladies go solo to Rancho la Puerta in Mexico. It is FABULOUS, but you can’t go for just two nights.
HSAL says
The changes in pediatric guidelines are baffling to me. At my daughter’s 4 month appointment today, the doctor asked if we were interested in starting solids. I know the current guidelines say 6 months, and we’re not in a hurry, so we’ll talk about it at her next appointment. But when I told my mom this, she mentioned how early we had started solids. My 40 year old brother started rice cereal at 9 days. 38 year old brother, 11 days. I’m 34 and the guidelines must have changed in the interim because I started at 9 weeks. Baffling. I wouldn’t even have known how to get a spoon in my daughter’s mouth without choking her at 9 days.
Anonymous says
The old wives’ tale was that rice cereal would help the baby sleep longer, so moms in those very difficult early days fed the baby cereal (very, very liquidy cereal, in a bottle with a nipple slashed open) in the hopes of getting some sleep. Of course, we now know that was totally b.s. And the new wisdom (says my pediatrician) is to skip rice cereal entirely – it’s basically just refined sugar with little nutritional value – and instead choose a multigrain or oatmeal cereal.
HSAL says
I didn’t know multigrain was an option. My pediatrician recommended oatmeal because rice is more likely to constipate them.
I used to think older family members were joking when they’d ask if babies could have X, but I’m realizing it was probably normal for them. At least we (probably) all turned out fine.
Clementine says
I’ll bet your mother mixed the cereal right into their bottles, then used a safety pin to enlarge the hole enough for it to get through.
They used to do this to ‘help the baby sleep’. There’s some pretty significant research now though that babies’ guts aren’t ready for solid food until 4-6 months MINIMUM.
My MIL is still shocked we don’t give our kid cereal like this, but she’s a good sport about it and always laughs at how differently she did things with her boys.
NewMomAnon says
Side note: We found my dad’s baby book from the 1940s; he was a “hungry” baby so the pediatrician determined that nursing wasn’t working. Apparently, he was fed a mixture of Karo syrup, water, powdered milk and brandy from a few weeks old until his mom started giving him rice cereal at 2 months old. He somehow survived with minimal health issues until he hit his late 60s.
I just thought that was funny/scary. Carry on.
Ciao, pues says
Wow, what a great artifact! How’s your dad’s sweet tooth?
NewMomAnon says
Very well developed, unfortunately! He has struggled with obesity and developed diabetes a few years ago. I always assumed it was attributable to being raised by a traditional Southern cook with a penchant for butter and brown sugar in all the things, but maybe Karo syrup in every bottle for the first year isn’t ideal for later weight management!
anon says
I’m 33 and my mom reports pediatrician told them to start solids at 6 months for me. So it must not be uniform.
We ended up starting around 5 ish months because our child DESPERATELY wanted food (would pounce on ours, frantically watch us eat, etc.) There is a theory that they are more open to a wide variety of flavors around that age and the window closes sometime before age 1, but I don’t know whether it’s accurate or not. Just be aware that once you start solids, life gets more complicated — after a short while, baby will expect/need them at every meal, and you have to start planning errands and outside the house trips around mealtime.
Anonymous says
Our ped said 4-6 months, and cleared our daughter for starting “whenever we were ready” after 4 months. She gently suggested, but did not push, the idea of starting sooner since we had lots of nursing/BF/formula issues. We started at 4.5 months and it was an overnight change- it was like baby was full for the first time in 2 months. We did cereal just to make sure she understood how things worked, then moved on to avocado which she chow’d like a champ.
She had always been a great sleeper but just her overall *self* seemed happier. We didn’t reduce the amount of milk she was getting at all until more like 7-8 months.
HSAL says
Anonymous at 2:12, did you have weight gain issues with your daughter? We’ve pretty much got ours under control with adding a little powdered formula to her (breast milk) daycare bottles, along with another fortified bottle at night, then nursing otherwise. I asked the doctor if starting cereal early would help on that front, and she said in such small amounts, it wasn’t likely. She’s generally happy, an okay sleeper, and developmentally on track; just little.
Pogo says
We were also all put on our stomachs to sleep as kids, and probably didn’t even use car seats as toddlers. Kind of a miracle any of us survived!
HSAL says
My mom still has the boxes we came home from the hospital in.
sfg says
I have found the blog/book Science of Mom to be a terrific resource on this.
HSAL says
Thanks for this rec – looks like a lot of good info. Guess I know what I’ll be doing during conference calls tomorrow.
Anonymous says
34 and my mom gave me diluted rice cereal in a bottle at 9 weeks. She attributed my sleeping through the night to that evening rice bottle!
We’re looking forward to four months and solids though! There’s good research out there (check out Science of Mom web page) that early solids can help prevent eczema, which my husband has.
Power Pumping says
Someone paged me (Clementine) about power pumping. I responded on yesterday’s thread.
Butter says
Saw it, thank you! I tried my first session this morning while polishing off the Mindy Project on Hulu. Really appreciate all the info and the inspiration – I’m so impressed with what you were able to do! Hoping I’ll see some improvement this weekend…and ordering a hands-free pumping bra in the meantime ;)
Clementine says
Get the simple wishes one!!!!
SOOO much better than the crap medela ones, especially if you frequently pump in bed (yes, I do this.)
SC says
+1 to Simple Wishes. Also, if you decide the Simple Wishes bra works for you, do not hesitate on buying a second one before you go back to work! For some reason I at least a month carrying my pumping bra back and forth to work, and, if it needed to be washed, rushing laundry for the next morning. I also forgot it once or twice and had to pump without it (so I couldn’t get anything else done). Then one day it dawned on me that I could have TWO bras, and it made things so much easier and less stressful! It was a total DUH moment.
Suburban says
Feeling really disheartened about the thread yesterday about sleep training. Things really seemed to devolve quickly into abuse/neglect suggestions about the poster who had had success after a rough night or two. I’m 29 weeks pregnant with my first and, in general, really value the corporette community. I know that judgment / hysteria is really common in mom communities (both irl and on the web), but can anyone reccomend a less brutal community of smart moms?
pockets says
I think most of the judgment was coming from one poster. In general most people here are either fans of sleep training or understand that even if they personally wouldn’t use CIO, other moms use it and that’s ok. I didn’t sleep train at 8 weeks but also wouldn’t look askance at a parent who did.
Anonymous says
It’s generally a great community here. And honestly, it doesn’t get much more laid back that I’ve seen.
People don’t tend to judge all over regular CIO (as much as they may disagree with it). It got heated yesterday because CIO was suggested for 8 week olds. There is a pediatric practice in Brooklyn that recommends that (and got coverage in the NY Times) but no public health authorities, lactation consultants or pediatric associations anywhere in the world recommend that. When things are so far outside the norm – it does tend to get a bit heated even here (see the discussion on alcohol in pregnancy as other example)
The upside and downside of the internet is that people are more honest than they would be in real life. My best friend used CIO whereas I would never – when she whines about her toddler having separation anxiety issues – I shut my mouth about the fact that my children have never had those issues because they trust I will come if they need me, even when they can’t see me. Online – I’m more honest and I suspect many other posters are as well. Once you figure out your parenting views on BF, CIO, AP, etc there are lots of message boards etc that will support those views but this is one of the few where there is a real spectrum and posters generally keep it civil as long as the behavior is within general norms.
Maddie Ross says
FWIW, I used CIO and my child has no separation anxiety issues. She truly waltzes into daycare, birthday parties, Sunday School with nary a second thought. So many parenting decisions have little to no impact on one’s children because so much is personality related.
My goal is to stick to the Amy Poehler style of parenting – Good for you, not for me – and move on.
pockets says
I did hard core CIO at 5 months (I would have done it earlier but baby was sleeping through the night and then regressed) and my kid has no separation anxiety. She waltzed into daycare at 2 years old and after being with me 24/7 for six months without looking back (she was probably as excited to get away from me and hang out with people her own age as I was). She plays independently and can play quietly in her crib for over an hour. She still wants me to hug her when she’s hurt and kiss her boo-boos. So maybe she doesn’t think I’m always available, and maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe you want your kid really attached to you, but I didn’t. Not every parent wants to parent in the same way, and that’s OK.
And I agree that Anonymous’s post is part of the problem. It’s really great that you hold your tongue while you silently judge your friend. I’m sure she appreciates that.
PregLawyer says
Yeah, I’m sorry, this post (Anon @ 2:12) is part of the problem. Implying that CIO causes separation anxiety because your best friend complains about it? Nope.
anon says
Agreed, this post was worse than yesterday! Implying you aren’t part of the problem, then demonstrating it.
My CIO child has no separation anxiety issues and is perfect. kthxbye.
Get real says
The strong, passionate issues like BF, CIO, AP, when to start solids, etc. are often the things that matter the least.
Don’t forget, we’re raising adults, not 8-month-olds. Where’s the passion on homework for elementary schoolers or how to teach sex-ed to middle schoolers or preventing bullying and weapons access to high schoolers?
Anonymous says
Thank you Get Real!
Honestly, I’ve come to believe that the “mommy wars” issues are really whipped up by the (invisible, evil, pervasive) patriarchy to keep us (women/moms) from organizing on the bigger issues: like universal day care, maternity leave, restructuring education funding to eliminate educational inequalities: these things should matter to all moms, but instead we’re screaming about the first nine months of a lifetime.
Spirograph says
I didn’t have time to read yesterday, but I guess I’ll have to detour back over there now for curiosity’s sake…
Amen to this. Babies need food, sleep, and love, and IMHO, it’s irrational to argue that any parent interested/engaged enough to even use the term “CIO” is 99 times out of 100 fulfilling the “love” part. Unless it’s a case of neglect, anything else is just an opinion. We can discuss, we can disagree, but in the grand scheme of things, we all love our kids so let’s worry about the more important stuff. You do you, everyone. Overall, I’ve found this to be a very sensible and helpful community, and I really appreciate that.
Spirograph says
I miss the edit button. I started one sentence and finished a different one after someone stopped in to talk to me. 99 times out of 100 anyone who uses that term is a loving parent. You know what I meant. :)
Aunt Jamesina says
Some more anecdata- my mom never sleep trained me, and I was a stage four clinger until I was about five years old (and am now a mentally healthy, well-adjusted adult). She used CIO on my younger brother since he had horrible colic, she was working full time, and my dad had some health issues that made life that much harder when he was a baby. He practically bolted out of the car the first day of preschool and hasn’t known a stranger in his life.
NewMomAnon says
That was totally uncharacteristic of this commenting community; I skipped over the thread because I assumed it was either a troll (which we don’t have very often) or someone who would quickly realize this was the wrong forum for them.
I haven’t looked around very much for other forums, but I would say this community tends to veer toward very practical, well educated moms who may disagree with each other but do so from an informed and respectful place.
quail says
I agree with this. I think there’s one commenter (who seems to remain anonymous for those posts) who responds like this to the CIO discussions. I’ve been surprised by it and find the tone very uncharacteristic for this community.
Maddie Ross says
No suggestions, as I never found a web community that wasn’t either overrun with sancti-mommies or very young SAHMs, but I will tell you that having followed this community here since it started, yesterday’s conversation seemed out of the ordinary to me. In my heart I want to believe that the anon that started the CIO diatribe was well-meaning, but it did get a bit out of hand. I have really found the conversations here regarding most issues to be thoughtful and carefully worded.
JJ says
I agree completely. I haven’t found a better forum or community than here. The lack of sanctimommies has been refreshing, and no one has ever chimed in with “Have you tried essential oils yet?” when someone asks a medical question.
MomAnon4This says
Hahahah LOL essential oils – thanks.
Anon says
Yes, that thread was definitely an outlier.
Anonymous says
I was the original sleep issue poster yesterday, and I felt sad that my original post turned into that kind of shaming. But my larger issue is that the way maternity leave works in the US, women are forced to go back to work earlier than they might want, and so make decisions like sleep training at an early age, that they may not have made were their maternity leave longer. Each poster who was criticized said they were going back to work, and so they sleep trained. For me, I’m not ready to sleep train yet, so I get to deal with months more at work, without enough sleep, and not functioning to a high enough level, but I couldn’t afford any more unpaid time (and my leave policy is generous for the US).
Anonymous says
There are lots of ways to sleep train that are not CIO. Post back here when you’re ready and I’m sure lots of posters will help out with non-CIO sleep training options.
Anonymous says
Yes, thanks, I read up before we did CIO for my son, but CIO worked just fine for my son and I plan on using it again with my daughter.
SC says
I missed yesterday’s thread. But I did CIO as soon as my pediatrician said it was OK, around 4 months, because I had already returned to work, and we needed sleep. My top priority was sleeping, performing well at work, and keeping my job. (This was also necessary because I am the breadwinner and returned to work on thin ice after a VERY difficult pregnancy.) I was OK with CIO even though people on the Internet say that it causes separation anxiety. I was OK with my supply dropping and eventually weaning completely because I wasn’t nursing at night. It wasn’t ideal, but I couldn’t do everything.
As for the poster whose friend complains about her baby’s separation anxiety after CIO, maybe there’s a cause and effect, maybe not. But I have friends and family members who chose not to sleep train and have 3-year-olds who are still not sleeping through the night, which strikes me as crazypants. Maybe those things are linked, maybe not. Also, it’s important to remember that every child has a different personality. When we did sleep training, our son never cried past 20 minutes going to bed and never wakes up crying in the middle of the night (karma – see VERY difficult pregnancy). But anyone with more than one child will tell you that they are all different, and some are naturally fussier and harder to put to sleep. I have no idea what I would do or how I would parent if my baby had cried for hours.
quail says
Amen! This is the conversation we need to have in the US. Longer leaves, parental leave for non-birthing parents (my partner had six months mostly off – when one of us had something important, like an unmissable presentation for him or the bar exam for me, the other person got up that night) , flexible, affordable childcare that has hours that work for working parents.
I was lucky to have 8 months before having to report to work in the morning, and also got lucky with a kid who slept/sleeps well (knock on wood) without ever having to do a formal CIO method. I don’t know what I would have done if I’d had to go back at 8 or 12 weeks – my hormones were crazy, everything was crazy. I guess I’d do what I have to do.
And I’d do what worked for my kid. The more I talk with other parents the more I think we all just adapt to what works for the little creature in front of us.
MomAnon4This says
Glad you posted this. Agreed. I usually find this such a supportive community for all kinds of moms who value professionalism, too, and I was pretty scared? threatened? definitely disheartened. by the thread & responses yesterday and “outrage”
Msj says
In the same boat. I really value this community and was very disheartened by yesterday and some of the additional anonymous contributions on this thread today.
CIO worked for my family. Some kids don’t need sleep training (my mom swears I started sleeping through the night on my own at six wks) and others respond better to other methods. But for us, it was extinction CIO. I don’t need pity or judgement.
To your original question, Longest Shortest Time has some helpful subgroups for specific issues/communities on Facebook.
Anonymous says
I’m chiming in as one of the women who responded to yesterday’s thread (I was the one who said that I was a proponent of CIO but that was 3.5 months was too early and 8 weeks seemed like abuse). I’ve been part of this community for a very, very long time and I think it’s such a great group of highly educated, motivated, intelligent and thoughtful women. I also think it is valid to disagree and offer a counterpoint, and it’s a little tiresome that people are “disheartened” or “troubled” by constructive criticism. I don’t want to be part of a yes community. I ended up sharing the thread yesterday with my best friend, who is a pediatrician, and she was genuinely shocked that any board certified ped would recommend CIO at 8 weeks. It is a fringe view, and that was the crux of my point yesterday.
Anonymous says
Long time (like pre Kat being public) reader – 100% agree with you
Anon says
+100
If you don’t want to hear something you don’t like, then why ask?
family doc says
Long time lurker, first time poster. I practice family medicine and a significant percentage of my patients are babies, so I get parents asking me questions about CIO all.the.time. I get it, I have 2 kids of my own. My general recommendation is 6 months. The very earliest you can begin CIO is when a baby is 4 months AND at least 15 pounds. That means if the baby is 5 months and 12 pounds, you shouldn’t start, and if the baby is 3 months and 17 pounds, you should not start. Children need to be developmentally ready for it and they need to weigh enough that they won’t lose calories in the early, critical months of their lives.
Spirograph says
This is in line with what my pediatrician recommended, and I agree that 8 weeks seems a fringe view. I can’t imagine doing CIO with an 8 week old; I just wouldn’t have the stomach for it. That said, I would never call it “abuse” because that word means something a lot more horrible to me and I feel it’s needlessly hurtful in the context of a concerned, loving parent who just needs more sleep. I also think there’s a lot of room between “extinction CIO” and letting your (otherwise healthy and growing well) baby wake you up 5x per night. Can every 3.5 month old go 12 hours without eating? Certainly not. But some can, and I’m sure parents and pediatricians know the babies in their care better than strangers on the internet. Eliminating one feeding with CIO is not the same to me as letting a baby cry ’til morning no matter how many times it wakes up and how long it screams. FWIW, I was lucky that my kids were good sleepers, but we did CIO a couple times with my son after sleep regressions at 9 months and a few times between 1 and 2. I don’t have strong memories of it, and my kiddos are both pretty normal, so it must have been fairly painless for everyone.
Anonymous says
Whenever sleep training comes up SOMEONE comes out of the woodwork, starts quoting discredited studies and comparing people to abusers. “She” assumes that cry-it-out is the only form of sleep training (as opposed to things like helping build healthy sleep habits by watching your baby, not picking them up unless you’re sure they’re awake, not expecting them to nap in the stroller, having their room dark for naps and bedtime etc.) “She”. doesn’t comment about breastfeeding or bottles, c-section or vaginal birth, baby gadgets or screen time. I sincerely believe that “she” is a troll. “She” says terrible, hurtful things to people who are sleep deprived and vulnerable. Sleep deprivation is real — it can kill a person, cause psychosis or depression, and can cause impairment equivalent to being drunk. Why it would be less harmful for for a child to be taken care of by a person with the reaction time and decision making abilities of a drunk for months on end instead of a few days of crying is beyond me.
Just don’t look for sleep advice here.
Suburban says
Excellent point. Thank you. This is my gut feeling, though much more thoughtfully expressed.
Anonymous says
Sigh. I’m not a troll. As explained, I have been part of this community for a long time, probably upwards of 8 years. I’m anon for this one because CIO is so fraught with controversy, as this thread clearly confirms. And I don’t think the other woman who posted the studies is a troll either. Perfectly intelligent, sensible people can disagree on something without being relegated to a troll.
Anonymous says
+1 disagreeing with early CIO is not trolling. A few different people disagreed with the CIO for an eight week old – they weren’t all trolls.
Anonymous says
Saying “you are a bad person, go away” and snidely retorting “silly developmental psychologists with their silly research based studies,” (not saying this was you, but someone said it) because someone sleep trained their child at 3.5 months is troll-y, no matter how long you have been reading the s1te. I don’t think it was the disagreement people are objecting to, but the tone.
Anon at 10:27 says
Those comments weren’t from the same person – “you are a bad person go away” was said to the anti CIO poster who disagreed with sleep training 8 week olds with CIO. The anti – CIO poster definitely could have been a bit nicer. I don’t think anon (long time reader) at 10:17 today was the person who posted the study – that poster was anti CIO and anon at 10:17 is pro-CIO for older babies.
Double/sit-and-stand strollers? says
This summer, I’ll have a newborn and a not-quite-3 year old. I have a long mat leave and forsee many days at the zoo, farm, etc. where newborn will be in her stroller and where #1 may still want a place to sit after walking for a while. I’ve thought about the side-by-side strollers, but that seems like so much stroller for the amount of minutes i’ll actually have 2 kids in it.
The sit-and-stands seem like the perfect solution, but I can’t really get a sense for which would work best for us. I took #1 to the store and we tried out the 2 floor models they had, and she loved the jump seat, but we couldn’t try it with an infant carrier in.
Any recs or strollers to avoid? We have a chicco keyfit infant seat, if it matters.
Anonymous says
I like the side-by-side (see BOB discussion above). Not so much for 2 kids at once, but if 1 is in it, you can put your stuff in the other slot. SO much stuff with 2!
But most sit/stand strollers had such obstructed views / were hard to push / kept hitting my ankles on I didn’t bother.
Momata says
I have a City Mini GT double for my kids who are 20 months apart. It has a ridealong attachment. It doesn’t seem too enormous, to your concern about the side-by-side; it fits through standard doors. And I like that I can strap the older one in for navigating parking lots and when the zoo is crowded. I believe the Chicco Keyfit will fit in there with an adapter, but tbh we just put the baby lying flat and surrounded by a rolled towel – it was cooler for the summer that way. We haven’t used the ridealong yet.
Cdn lawyer says
If budget isn’t a concern I would get the new uppababy vista. I love love love it as a single stroller. Huge basket and steers beautifully. But you can also add a second seat if you end up wanting one, and/or a piggyback board. There are adapters for the vista to work with the chicco Keyfit. Note: apparently the new (2015) vista does much better as a double stroller than the older models do.
My sister has a Baby jogger City Select which is the same idea but it doesn’t push as nicely. My 3.5 year old nephew will hop in and out of the second seat as he feels like it.
EP-er says
I found that I was more likely to wear my infant and have the stroller for the toddler. Have you considered this option?
Anonymous says
yep- and i see that being on the table too, but have a stroller for that situation. I’m thinking on a hot summer day when the baby wants to nap and the 3 year old isn’t ready to leave the zoo, baby will snooze in the stroller with the shade up. I’m having a hard time seeing myself wearing an Ergo for 4 hours at the zoo…but maybe it won’t be that bad. I didn’t do a lot of babywearing with #1 because she was a late fall baby and we mainly stuck to inside/ the cozy carrier.
In House Lobbyist says
I had a 3 year old and a summer baby too. I just knew we would use this and even bought the jump seat because my toddler seemed to like it. But it got used once because it was so freaking heavy and hard for me to get in an out of the car by myself. I was glad I bought it used and then promptly sold it on Craigslist. So you might look around for a used option. I had one of the Joovy models. I will also add that we had recently moved from the city to the country so I might have used it more in the city.
Anonymous says
Hrm, weight was a concern. Joovy now makes an ultralight version which is unfortunately too new to get used. This wouldn’t be my walk-around-the-neighborhood or around a shopping center stroller as the 3 y/o can hoof that. This is more for day-long outings- fairs, zoo, farm, etc where DH won’t be there so we can’t push 2 strollers.
Faye says
I know I’m late, but in case you check back…. In my experience, there’s no perfect double stroller. Unless you have the funds to buy 15 of them for all your different uses, you’re going to have a love/hate relationship with whichever one you buy.
That said, we have the Joovy Caboose Too Ultralight and mostly love it. We used the second seat until my OD was almost 3, then she could use the jump seat. Or we could wear one kid and let the other ride. It was fairly light (same weight as my Bob single) and easy to collapse, but still fit through doors with little problem. It’s just not as convenient as a single stroller and the underbucket sucks to get to, but those aren’t dealbreakers for us.
Anon says
We had the babytrend sit-n-stand double stroller that we got a lot of use out of when my kids were little. Initially, we had the baby in her carseat and our toddler in the front. Then moved to both of them in the regular stroller seat, and eventually, younger child in the front and older child standing on the back.
I also did lots of babywearing and usually took a small single stroller or sometimes still took the double stroller depending on what we were doing.
Sarabeth says
We’ll have this age range too; my plan is to just wear the infant and let the older kid use the stroller. We may change our minds and get one later, but for the first few months at least, Ergo+stroller seems like the easiest solution.
Pogo says
Maybe a stupid question – but is there a point during your pregnancy if you have really bad morning sickness that you can’t be at work because you’re too far from the bathroom?
I felt really awful/nauseous yesterday and was eyeing my trashcan because the women’s room is WAY far away. I haven’t heard of anyone IRL having this issue, but I also don’t know anyone who had bad morning sickness.
I don’t actually think I’ve got morning sickness (would be too early), I was probably just a little dehydrated but it got me thinking.
Maddie Ross says
I did not have “bad” morning sickness comparatively, but I definitely threw up in my office trashcan a couple times early in pregnancy. (a) it was more discrete (I have a door), and (b) most of my morning sickness was just liquid/dry heaving, not true “throw up” if that makes sense (gross I know). You are not the only person, trust me!
anne-on says
I had hyperemesis, and if I hadn’t worked at home I probably would have been fired/quit. It got better later on in my pregnancy when I would regularly throw up 2-3/x day, but then be ok more or less throughout the day. Honestly, in the early throes of pregnancy sickness, I would not at all be worried about throwing up whenever/wherever needed.
MomAnon4This says
This. Trash cans. Parking lots. Bushes. Wherever needed. And don’t be afraid to get the Zofran, either. (anti-nausea meds that tastes bad.)
Meg Murry says
In my case, I called off work, took a half day or took a work from home day because I had been puking from home that morning and didn’t want to chance driving until the worst of the morning sickness passed because I didn’t want to chance needed to puke while on the highway.
Although I never puked in my open plan office, thank goodness, there was more than one day where I always kept an eye on where the nearest trash can was to me and went into multiple meetings where I purposely sat next to either the garbage can, the door or both (with the intention that I might grab the trash can to hold on my way to running to the ladies room just in case).
I have a friend that had pretty much no leave due to starting a new job just before discovering she was pregnant, and she had horrible sickness (that was actually worst at 2 and 5 pm, not morning). She became extremely skilled in the art of discretely carrying multiple sickness bags with her wherever she went, puking in the most discrete spot she could, triple bagging the waste and disposing of it without anyone noticing. I’m glad it never came to that for me.
Lida says
(TMI alert) I threw up in my office trashcan multiple times and dry heaved many more. I don’t know what I would have done without a private office; the bathroom was just down the hall but nausea sometimes came on VERY suddenly and urgently, and, while I didn’t have hyperemesis or anything, it lasted through the 2nd trimester. I have a pretty relaxed workplace and on days where I could tell it would be really bad, I was able to work from home. I missed one meeting at 7 or 8 weeks, by staying home sick, because it was at a heavily-guarded federal building where you had to be escorted to the bathroom and that happened to be a particularly bad day (and it was a big meeting, sigh). I was able to attend settlement mediations where I could just run out to the bathroom, but I was always pretty nervous about it. At the very end of pregnancy, though, I had … other digestive issues and ended up leaving before my due date because I couldn’t manage with the work bathroom.
SC says
My morning sickness was bad enough at one point that I couldn’t keep any food or water down. It wasn’t the throwing up, but the dehydration and weakness after about 4 days of that, that kept me home. Also, my doctor prescribed Zofran and told me that I would end up at urgent care for IV fluids if I didn’t take it or it didn’t work.
Later in my pregnancy, I got to the point that I was so far away from the bathroom that I basically had to pee by the time I got back to my desk. Also, once I starting having preterm labor, the walk to the bathroom caused contractions. I ended up on bedrest for the last month.
Did I mention that my baby consistently sleeps 12+ hours through the night and has since he was 4 months old?
RDC says
I carried doggie bags in my purse for fear of getting sick on the metro. Fortunately never had to use them on the metro, but did use them on other occasions.
Paging Induction Poster from Yesterday says
Have you talked to your doctor about inducing without pitocin?
My baby was about 10 days late and my doctor was going to do the induction by just breaking my water, no drugs. As it happened, we decided to strip the membrane the day before my scheduled induction, which was unpleasant but not too painful (like a bad pap), and I ended up starting labor on my own without realizing it (back labor pain which I assumed was just a backache from being so pregnant). She broke my water when I got to the hospital and I had my baby, w/o pitocin or any c-section or other complications, a few hours after that. The original plan was break water, I walk around hospital until contractions start and then I have baby. I made the mistake of googling inductions before I went in and it really freaked me out but my experience was nothing like what I read online. My doctor told me I could wait when I expressed hesitation but I am so glad I didn’t – when my water finally came down it was a tiny bit green and who knows how much the baby would have stayed in that if we hadn’t intervened ever so slightly. If I had to do anything differently, I would have stripped membrane 2 days before my scheduled induction (so 8 days after due date but 2 days before) and walked around more in that time to see if I could have broken water on my own. Anyway, best of luck. It will all be fine, however you do it.