Talking About Your Kids at Work
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2019 Update: We still love this discussion about whether or not we talk about our kids at work — but you may also want to check out our more recent discussion (inspired by an Emily Oster piece in The Atlantic), asking readers if they’re are a “secret parent” in the office.
Moms: do you ever feel judged — or at least subject to coworker eye-rolling — for talking about your kids at work? Do you avoid talking about being a mom for that reason, or maybe because your definition of “professionalism” includes limiting discussion of your family life at the office? I’ve been thinking about this lately because, since launching the CorporetteMoms site, whenever someone on Corporette brings up a parenting-related topic (which you are still welcome to do on either site), it leads to at least one comment along these lines:
“I HAVE AN IDEA: WHY DON’T YOU USE THE ‘MOM’ BLOG SO THE REST OF US DON’T HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS CRAP?”
This particularly harsh comment has been made not just once, but twice (someone knows how to use Ctrl-C!). The first time was in response to a question about pursuing a new job while visibly pregnant, and the second to a request for resources for working moms with a new baby. While I don’t make a habit of deleting comments, that one is now in the trash.
Now, as things go, Internet commenters can be, er, opinionated — and the person (or, at least, the IP address) that posted this “crap” question appears to have anger issues, based on other comments she’s made… but if there’s one thing I’ve learned over the years it’s this: if one person has the balls to say it (or write it in an Internet forum), many more are thinking it. So this hostility to mom-ness, to two totally legitimate questions for a career advice blog, struck me as something worth discussing.
After I started thinking about it, a few memories came to me from my years in Big Law. Some superiors rolled their eyes when someone pointed out (yet again) that she or he couldn’t do something (like stay late at the last minute) because of parenting activities, and an older mentor told me that, if/when I had kids and if/when I needed to stay home with them on a sick day — “always tell the boss that YOU’RE the one who’s sick — never the kids.” (Here’s similar advice from the WSJ to be vague about when you need personal time for kid-related reasons, and a working mom’s rant in Elle a few years ago about professional women who “blather on about their children in the workplace.”)
So, let’s discuss:
- Do you avoid talking at work about this huge part of your life — your kid(s) or your plans to have them, your family unit, and household issues?
- When chatting with a colleague who does not have kids, do you focus on non-kid things like, say, a Katy Perry concert?
- Do you only squelch that part of you when talking to younger colleagues, or colleagues who are not parents?
- Do your answers here differ if you’re talking to a man (if he’s a father, even a young father)?
- Does your definition of “professionalism” mean that you don’t talk about any personal matters, including family life, with your colleagues?
There are no right answers here, obviously, but I thought it would be an interesting discussion... Ladies, what do you think?
(Pictured: Pictures of my kids on my desk, originally uploaded to Flickr by trenttsd). 2019 updated image (on Pin) via Deposit Photos / OtnaYdur.
Hmm, I’m a new mom, and I don’t think I’ve made a conscious effort to avoid talking about my baby, but I don’t think I’m doing it all that much either. My immediate supervisor and teammates are all child-free, so there isn’t that shared experience that would spur conversation about kids.
On the other hand, there is someone who has an office near me who always wants to stop in my office and chit-chat about kids/pregnancy for what seems like forever. It’s annoying to me because I have work to do and because I like to think about things other than my kid every now and then. But I think I would be just as annoyed if someone wanted to talk about, say, weddings all the time, so this isn’t kid specific.
I don’t avoid talking about my child at work. I do try to focus on non-kid things when talking to a coworker (or friend outside work) who doesn’t have kids. I discuss my personal life much more with friends outside work than I do with coworkers. I have a couple of friends that can ONLY talk about their kids, and I often find it boring and annoying.
I’ve actually found that what people choose to share with me about their family/personal life has changed since I got pregnant. In my own conversations, I tend to focus more on addressing the challenges my working spouse and I have juggling two careers and a kiddo vs. talking about what my kid does. I think it’s the juggle between professional and personal life that we all have to deal with – it’s not any different than the single woman down the hall who chooses to spend 20+ hours a week training for triathlons.
In the meantime, I have yet to figure out my response to the older gentlemen who, in good faith, try to relate to me about how difficult their family had it when both they and their wife worked when their kids were first born. 90% of those conversations end up with them saying “so my wife decided to stay home and still does so even though the oldest is in college, blah blah blah.” I sure appreciate the effort to relate to what I’m trying to do, but sorry guys, not even close.
I am lucky to work in a small office that values family time. Everyone (with the exception of me) has multiple children. The partners frequently leave the office early, or come in late because of family activities and allow the associates to use their discretion regarding adjusting their work schedule to accommodate doctors appointments, soccer practice, etc.
Everyone talks about their children and their children’s activities. I do remember feeling odd when I first began to work here, because everyone had children and everyone always talked about them. That being said, I think the office values having a life outside of work. Every Monday, people spend at least a half hour catching up with each other (asking about the weekend, etc.) and when someone returns to the office from vacation, everyone wants to hear all about it.
Wow, that commenter was a real jerk. What a shame we can’t be more supportive of each other. I don’t blame you for deleting the comment and for having it rattle around in your head enough to dedicate a post to it.
I don’t think I overdo it on the mom stuff at work, but I also have a very child friendly supervisor and general office environment. I feel very fortunate about that, but it makes me wonder if any of my colleagues see that as an annoying part of working here!
I have been saddened to see this type of comment popping up on the regularcorpore**e website. Motherhood is something that many, many professional women experience or want/plan to experience, so it doesn’t make any sense to “otherize” it and push it out of the conversation. As far as my work experience, I don’t talk about my child a TON, but I don’t hesitate to mention that my child is doing xyz. I have found myself over-working on some days that I have worked from home, or not mentioning that a doctor’s appointment is for my child rather than myself (letting others infer what they will), so I guess I do have some self-consciousness in regards to this.
For me, it definitely depends on the audience. When I first came back from maternity leave, I worked for a single-no-kids boss and managed a team of exclusively single-no-kids people. People would ask about my baby to be polite, but if I gave an answer longer than “he’s great!” their eyes would start to glaze over, so I became very conscious to avoid talking about him. I also tried extra hard to follow up by asking something about that person’s pet/hobby/upcoming vacation/whatever. I completely understand now why parents get annoyed when someone responds to a story about kids with “I know, my dog does the same thing!…” but I always hated the vibe I got from some parents that nothing in my childless life could be as important as their child is to them (although I understand that mentality, too, now), and really didn’t want to be one of those people.
I now work with mostly married-with-kids types, and talking about children, childcare, family logistics, etc is a great equalizer and way to make friends. In some ways it’s a lot easier, but in some ways I miss being able to leave home at home the way I leave work at work. The point about sick days is an interesting one, though. Without even thinking about it, I was always purposely vague at my old office about who was sick or who a doctor appt was for. My son had a fever for a couple days recently, and I just told my new office “it’s my turn to stay home with fever baby, see you tomorrow” and got a bunch of commiseration e-mails from coworkers. Total culture change.
As an associate, I used to try not to draw extra attention to my kids and not talk about them too much. Now, as a partner, I have pictures of my kids on my walls instead of my diplomas. I have their artwork around. And I truly find others (both with and without kids) enjoying hearing a *short* funny story about them from time to time. It’s part of who I am, and I’m proud of it. Having kids makes my life more relate-able – and makes me relate better to jurors.
I don’t like the idea that, as a woman, you shouldn’t have pics of or art by your kids in your office. My thought is, “I’ve proven myself. I can do a lot – and be a mom and lawyer. I don’t have to hide that I’m a mom to be [considered] a good lawyer.”
I’m fortunate to work in a family-friendly firm. Most people have kids, most have working spouses, and everyone has lives. It’s a very social place and people generally talk about their lives outside of the office. It’s common culture here to have pictures of the family, dogs, artwork, etc. in the office. More than a couple of people have large, professionally done portraits of their kids/family hanging on the wall. While I abstain from making my child the central topic of conversation, I do talk about him when appropriate. I also feel some responsibility to model what it looks like (good and bad) to be a working parent to the younger associates.
I can understand getting annoyed when parents gush and gush about go into TMI (i.e. body fluids) about their new babies. On the whole I think discussing kids at work is pretty normal, at least in my government office. Almost all of the attorneys have kids and I try to remember the names or at least the gender and number of my colleagues’ kids so that I can make polite conversation by asking how they are, how old they are now, etc. I think the hostility on your other blog about parenting questions is not indicative of professional workplaces. It’s just the rantings of a bitter few. If the comments on this blog stay on the more mature side that will be a good thing! I have been reading Corpor**** for years and am very excited about this blog. The timing couldn’t have been better for me as I am five and a half months pregnant with my first child.
I know at one office I worked at we did not have an official limit on how many sick days we took (it was up to the manager’s discression as to what was too much and in need of a performance plan), but technically our managers we supposed to only give us sick days for ourselves and we were supposed to use vacation/personal days to stay home with sick family members. My boss was a kind person and thought the rule was stupid, but I was pretty much the only woman there with kids (it was an office heavy with men with SAHMs). She told me to simply say I was taking a sick day and she wouldn’t ask any further. Most of the time in my son’s first year though, he would be up all night with a croup-y cough, but technically not too sick for daycare, so he would go to daycare or my husband would take a half day, and I would take a sick day to sleep – because if I didn’t I would be next to useless at the office, a danger to fellow drivers on the road and probably sick for real in the next day or two, with something that would take a lot longer than a day to shake off.
As a warning to anyone who hasn’t been there yet – bank as much sick leave/PTO for the first year your kid is in daycare/preschool/public school – they will bring home EVERY germ that is going around. It gets better after that first year, at least slightly, but the first year is awful.
I work in a small office and I am the boss, so FWIW, yes I talk about my kids. That’s really all I”ve got going on besides work and I think talking about them humanizes me. I keep it brief and funny (I hope) and I also ask/listen to colleague’s out-of-work interests that are not child-related. I think moms get annoying(to non parents especially) if that’s all they talk about or if they assume every one is as interested in Junior’s exploits as they are. But I find kids are a great networking tool also — in my profession — politics– I’ve bonded with other parents over our kids similar interests. Also, school, soccer, and swim have also provided fertile networking opportunities.
I don’t have kids yet, but my work place is definitely decently family friendly. It’s totally normal for my coworkers (both men and women) to say that they’ll have to call in to the early meeting (as opposed to come in) because they have to take care of their kids, or that they can’t stay late because of their kids, and even to occasionally work from home because their kid is sick. When I told a friend of mine (who is a Mom) the last one, she was shocked that my coworker felt ok stating that she was out with a sick kid, and not sick herself, because in her experience it’s better for her to lie and say that she’s the one who’s sick. I’ve even had a coworker say that he was out taking care of his sick kids AND wife. I wish all work places were like that: if you do good work, you should be able to take off when needed for family matters without having to lie about it. (on that note, I also have a coworker who’s recently been announcing to everyone that she’s like 2 weeks pregnant, although since she’ll have to rotate out of her current job function during her pregnancy anyways I guess people would have figured it out then)
For those in offices that are generally accepting of kid talk, do you ever have the opposite problem–that is ALL people want to talk to you about? I don’t know if I’m extra sensitive because I’m pregnant, so it’s the “easy” thing for people to talk to me about. I dread having conversations because they always begin with “How’s it going momma?” or “How are you feeling?” or “You look like you’re ready to pop! any daaaaaay now!” To be fair, I’m 38 weeks pregnant, but, I’m still here working, I have other things to discuss.
I’m currently heavily pregnant with my first child, and working in Big Law (in subsaharan Africa, but from what I’ve read, Big Law is pretty similar everywhere). The trend I’ve noticed is this:
Men talk, or don’t talk, about their kids depending on their personality. I work for two male partners, and the one is always talking about his family and his weekend, and the other is strictly business. Women talk, or don’t talk, about their kids depending on how safe they feel in the present company. I know a number of women who don’t talk at all about their families on the basis that they might be judged for it. I know several more who talk about their kids, but only to other moms or if directly asked.
When women are pregnant, a common question from other women is “what are you going to do afterwards?” The assumption at associate-level is that they will leave as soon as they have worked off their paid maternity leave – and in the vast majority of cases, that’s what they do. At partner-level, they are entitled to go part-time, and pretty much all of them do. The partners talk a lot more about their kids than the associates, but they still hide their reduced hours from clients on the basis that they will be given less work if they are seen to be on the mommy track.
Interestingly, some of the men hide their family commitments because they feel under scrutiny, too. When I told my strictly-business boss I wanted to go part time as an associate, he asked why. I told him that I’d seen the new moms in the office, and they look tired and guilty, and I don’t want that for my life. He said “you know, Marie, it’s not just the moms. I have two young sons, and I feel terrible coming home to find them asleep. Sometimes I take a long lunch just so I can drive them home from school and see them in the daylight. This job is hard on families.”