I struggled for years to find a foundation that matched both my shade and golden undertones. I also wanted something that would nurture and enhance my skin, not just cover it up. My fruitless search across makeup counters and drugstore aisles resulted in a pile of close, but not close enough, foundations. For a while, I just wore tinted moisturizer because I couldn’t figure out something more precise.
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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- If you’re a working parent of an infant with low sleep needs, how do you function at work when you’re in the throes of baby’s sleep regression?
- Should I cut my childcare down to 12 hours a month if I work from home?
- Will my baby have speech delays if we raise her bilingual?
- Has anyone given birth in a teaching hospital?
- My child eats everything, and my friends’ kids do not – how should I handle? In general, what is the best way to handle when your child has some skill/ability and your friend’s child doesn’t have that skill/ability?
- ADHD moms, give me your tips to help with things like behavior in the classroom, attention to detail, etc?
- I think I suffer from mom rage…
- My husband and kids are gone this weekend – how should I enjoy my free time?
- I’m struggling to be compassionate with a SAHM friend who complains she doesn’t have enough hours of childcare.
- If you exclusively formula fed, what tips do you have for in the hospital and coming home?
- Could I take my 4-yo and 8-yo on a 7-8 day trip to Paris, Lyon, and Madrid?
Pogo says
Has anyone gone back to work after maternity leave recently? If it’s your second, did you feel like it was significantly different than with your first? Even though I worked remote for like 6 months prior to my leave, I’m not sure how to dive back in being remote! It feels so different than my first. I plan to schedule catch-up meetings with basically everyone, and of course I’ve been in touch with my manager (who basically admitting he’s been neglecting everything I normally do, which I figured). Any other thoughts?
Anonymous says
Following with interest— I’ll be coming back from leave in January and already thinking about the new challenge of not being able to get intel just by running into colleagues in the hall.
Pogo says
Exactly. Especially since everyone is so stressed these days with pandemic workload, I was finding it hard to have these ‘hallway conversations’ pre-leave. We also had some layoffs and a reorg, so my usual go-to person for intel (my admin) is no longer with the company. I’m thinking I’ll just have to be really intentional, and probably start scheduling the meetings sooner rather than later to get on everyone’s calendar.
Anonymous says
I came back from maternity leave with my first in October. I eased back in at half time for a couple weeks and then full time. TBH I was so out of the loop for the first few weeks. I came back after a major deliverable had just wrapped up so there was a natural lull. It took a couple weeks of team meetings to get fully up to speed. There were several small ad hoc tasks I could do for people to keep me busy.
Kid is home with us half time and juggling that has been interesting. Husband and I pretty much pass him back and forth between meetings and naps. It’s gotten a lot easier now that his napping has stabilized. The first few weeks it felt like he was always screaming during one of our calls.
Good luck! I would suggest keeping up with the check-ins until you feel like you are back up and running. Better to overcommunicate when remote.
cbackson says
I came back in September to a job that I had started only a month before WFH began. It’s actually been pretty great – being WFH means I’ve not had to pump (my nanny brings to the baby to me to nurse) and because I can take quick breaks to see the baby during the day, it has things a bit emotionally easier for me as well. I do feel like I spent most of the first two weeks back on all-day virtual check-ins as I sought to catch back up with people, which was a bit painful – because there aren’t any natural office interactions, I had to be very intentional about scheduling time with everyone on the team.
Anon says
It’s been easier this time around. Not commuting and being able to wear comfy clothes has saved SO much time. My work was spread out across my team while I was gone, so it was easy to have catch up conversations individually with everyone.
anon says
It’s been hard; I’m back in person but feeling very cut off from what’s going on without the ability to stop by anyone’s office, etc. the way I did with my first.
JTM says
I transitioned back in June, and I went on leave before everything shut down, so it was a transition to go back to work but do it from home. The biggest things I needed was to set up a workspace at home and to figure out my wardrobe, since I needed to look a little nicer than my “chilling at home with a new baby” clothes. If you’ve been working from home for awhile before maternity leave, you’re probably covered on both of those.
Cb says
For something positive to start the week, what’s your kid’s most lovable trait?
My 3.5 year old is the best at compliments/noticing little things. We went for a walk in the woods this am and he stopped in front of a tree and said ‘that’s a lovely tree!’ and when we got back from our walk, he said what a nice walk it was. He also complimented the vegan cheese and salami sandwich I made him for lunch and told me I was the ‘bestest cuddler in the whole world’. He really reminds me to pay attention and appreciate the little things.
Pogo says
Awww, what a sweet boy! I love that my 3yo is so empathetic to others. When one of his little buddies fell down on the playground he was so concerned for her, and his teachers even brought it up in his parent-teacher conference! He also looks out for his baby brother – this morning he brought a few of the baby’s toys into his room “So baby brother will have something to play with when he’s in my room!” He also loves to pick out presents for people – it’s hilarious what he thinks others will want, and I’ve mostly been honoring his wishes since it’s so adorable. I can’t get him to come up with something for his babysitter other than “a thermomerner” (?!?! maybe because she’s always taking their temperature per the government regulations lol). But he picked out books for his friends from the Scholastic Book Club flyer which brought me back to childhood and put such a smile on my face.
TheElms says
My 18 month old (like most I imagine) has incredible joy for life. It so lovely to watch her eyes go big and wide and an enormous smile spread across her face when we turn on the Christmas tree lights or see a dog on a walk or any other of the simple things we do most days.
Anonymous says
Both of my kids are really positive and adaptable and I’m grateful every day how they generally go with the flow. Staying home for 4 months during a pandemic? No prob. Oh we’re back to school now? Great, can’t wait to see my teachers. As hard as it is to wake up early with them, they start every single day going 100%, and usually 100% happy and excited for what the day holds too.
Anonymous says
Thank you, this was a good thing to think about on a Monday morning!
Son (4): Is just so sweet, agreeable, and “helpful.” His polite small talk cracks me up: “good morning, mommy, how was your sleep?” *gentle pat on the arm*
Daughter (6): Creative, and so theatrical. Her stuffies have rich secret lives, and she tells me all about and acts out the drama. It’s amazing what her little brain cooks up.
Son (7.5): He’s A Lot, but underneath all the energy, he’s very sensitive, and fiercely protective of anyone he perceives as weaker than he is, esp younger siblings and sports teammates. He’s outgrowing being overtly cuddly, but he still told DH the other day that his favorite thing is “snuggling with mom.”
Cb says
Oh that is really lovely! What a fun little gang!
Yes, I needed some positive thoughts today as we’ve had A weekend. But things seem to be turning around.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Your youngest and oldest sound like mine, just a few years from now, so I’m really looking forward to when they’re a little older and we can engage more in conversations and they get past the tumultuous toddler/preschool years.
My older one (4.5) is also A Lot, but it comes from a place of sensitivity and empathy, and he can be so helpful. This weekend, I was making hot cocoa for everyone and he was asking what he could do to help, because, according to him, “teamwork makes the dream work” (this must be something he heard at daycare!). My younger one (2) is talking a lot more now and is just in that adorable toddler stage where he does goofy things like spin in circles, laughs out loud at being tickled and is saying words in such a cute way. He is my more easy going kid, so I think I appreciate this stage a little more with him.
FVNC says
Similar to Anonymous above, I’m so grateful that both my kids are adaptable. Due to my husband’s job, we’ve moved around quite a bit and my daughter has been in 3 elementary schools in three years. She’s completely unfazed by the changes and so confident in herself and ability to make friends in a way that I never could have been. My younger one has had a bit of a harder time with the moves and new schools but overall just goes with the flow with minimal fuss. It’s pretty amazing to see them handle all the changes that are thrown at them!
CPA Lady says
She’s very kind to others, sweet to animals, and careful and inclusive with toddlers — I’m guessing she’ll make a great babysitter some day. :)
Anonymous says
My 2.5 year old is the most amazing gift recipient. Every time she gets something (it can be literally anything) it is “OH I LOVE IT! IT IS MY FAVORITE!” or “[huge gasp] THANK YOU! [huge hug]” My preschooler’s teacher was concerned that Preschooler only ever made cards/art for the 2.5 y/o (nothing for older sister or mom or dad) but dude the reaction she gets every time she gives her some kind of art is incredible.
My preschooler’s most lovable trait is also her most annoying: she can logic her way into/out of anything. It’s really impressive. She is also a girl that Knows What She Wants and an amazing stylist/fashionista.
My 7 y/o is…i’m not sure of the word for this, but she’s always up for doing whatever it is you ask. She’s also not afraid/worried about having a friend to do activities with her like so many of her friends/peers. Like, we always get asked to do a certain class or a sport because so-and-so wants a friend with her. My kid happily signs up for an activity even if she’s not super interested just to see if she likes it, and does her own thing. She’s not super friendly so it’s not like she makes friends fast at activities or anything, but she’s in them for HER, you know? I think she’s also self-confident in a way I never was (me at 8: I am terrible at basketball so don’t want to sign up for it. her at 7: what does a basketball look like? Oh ok cool, sure I’ll play!)
Clementine says
My pre-K kid is so social and has this welcoming understanding that I think will help him change the world. He is a little politician who asks amazing questions about why the world is the way that it is, particularly when he senses any type of injustice.
My toddler is an absolute spitfire. She has Executive Presence and absolutely incredibly determined.
The sweet babe is just the happiest, most easygoing little kiddo I’ve ever met. She lights up every room with her style.
Anonymous says
I love the Executive Presence. My daughter is the same, and I really hope the world doesn’t ruin it.
AnonATL says
So I only have 1 kid and he’s an infant, but he is the sweetest little baby. My husband and I fight over who is going to pick him up out of the crib in the mornings because he gives you the biggest smile.
His cackles just melt my heart.
Anon says
My daughter just turned 3 and I love her endless imagination. She can be an astronaut, a cat, an astronaut cat, a skateboarder, or a superhero in the same half hour. It makes me feel better about the fact she’s lived most of her third year in life in quarantine because her imagination can take her to so many different places. It’s so fun to see what her little mind comes up with and who or what she wants to turn into next.
My son is almost 8 months old and is genuinely the happiest little baby. Maybe this sounds strange, but I don’t think anyone in the world has ever loved me so much. Anytime he sees me, he does his huge open mouthed toothless grin and starts flapping his arms in excitement. It’s simply the best way to be greeted and it doesn’t matter if it’s been five minutes or two hours since he’s last seen me. He also only reacts like this for me, which makes it extra sweet.
Anon Lawyer says
And advice on weaning? I have a 13-month-old. I’m currently just nursing in the morning and at night before bed. She gets two bottles of milk (cows milk now that she’s one) during the day. I don’t mind nursing in the morning but at night she’s started pulling on and off and being pretty rough and I actually find giving her the bottle much more peaceful and relaxing.
I was thinking I’d keep the morning session for now but possibly switch to a bottle of milk at night. It seems like a lot of advice says to just cut it and give milk in a sippy cup instead but she doesn’t drink that much milk from a sippy or open cup yet (just an ounce or two) and she’s still so little.
Pogo says
I weaned around the same time with my first for similar reasons – he was just not that focused and my milk was naturally drying up because he was popping off and looking around, not really nursing contentedly. Like you I was concerned about bottles and switched to sippy cup like I had read about, but in retrospect I wish I had been more chill and let him take the bottle longer. 13mo is really not THAT old for a bottle. I would also try some other brands – what ended up working best for us was not the fancy tomee tippee transition soft spout, but plan ol take n toss.
Is she with daycare or a nanny during the day? As with all things parenting, I defer to the experts as well and leave it to them to do some of the hard work. So our babysitter was the one who moved ours to the sippy for daytime and she also stopped warming his milk. Of course toddlers are smart creatures who know there are different rules for different people and mommy & daddy are pushovers, so we’re still here warming night time milk at 3 years but (shrug emoji). But he takes the sippy like a champ and will generally drink cold milk for us at other times, which I totally credit her with.
Anonymous says
My kiddo’s transition away from bottles was slow. I’d reach out to your dentist rather than pediatrician to talk about it. Our pediatrician’s office seemed militant about it (as pediatricians often are about some of these dumb hard cutoffs), becuase of oral development. Kiddo’s dentist (a pediatric dentist with young kids of his own) was much more relaxed and understood the nuances of this sort of thing both with respect to oral development and kiddo’s overall development.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Keep the regular bottle. Our kids still had the Philips Avent baby bottles past one year, and transitioned to sippies and straw bottles between 15-18 months or so. Our ped (who is pretty chill about most things, which I love) was fine.
TheElms says
I wasn’t nursing at 13 months (had already transitioned to formula and then to cow’s milk) but definitely worried about the transition from bottle to sippy cup because we had been trying different cups (open, 360, straw, etc) since 6 months at home and at daycare with almost zero success. We kept offering during the day and around 15 months kiddo started drinking 4+ ounces of milk from a sippy cup. After a few days of that consistently we transitioned the morning and night bottle (the only other ones left) to a sippy cup within a couple weeks. She’s 18 months and its fine now. She happily guzzles down 12-15 oz of cows milk from a straw cup. Also, her bottom teeth which were almost vertical in her mouth are much closer to straight now and its only been 3 months. So in your shoes I’d probably stick with a bottle at night and keep offering cow’s milk and water in a sippy cup during the day. Our pediatrician is generally relaxed about these things and said that ideally bottles would be gone at 12 months but that its not something she is concerned about until sometime between 18 months and 2 years depending on the kid.
Anon says
for those of you who’ve made the decision to send your kid to a highly academic ‘pressure cooker’ type of private (e.g. the Horace Manns of NYC, Harvard Westlake of LA, St Johns of Houston, Sidwell of DC, etc.) or public (e.g. Scarsdale and many of the NYC suburbs, etc.) – why did you make the decision? how do you feel about it? or if you yourself attended one of those schools as a kids – thoughts?
Anon4this says
I went to Sidwell in the late 90s / early 2000s. I only went for high school and my experience was colored by the fact that I don’t think the school was a great fit for me (but I also don’t know what would have been better). I found it incredibly difficult while there and was not especially happy during high school, but overall I think it served be well. Sidwell really taught be how to learn and how to study/ take tests (something many of my peers learned in college). I also learned incredibly strong critical thinking and writing skills, which have served me well my whole life. I’m a lawyer, went to a top liberal arts college, top 10 law school, clerked, and am a senior associate at a top-ranked biglaw firm with a toddler and I have still never worked as hard or been as scheduled as I was in high school (although the addition of the toddler and the pandemic is starting to feel pretty darn close). In some ways that is good because whatever life as thrown at me I’ve always felt like I could do it because I’d managed it before. I think these types of schools are great for academically really smart kids who are self-motivated and also pretty self-confident. If you kid is missing any of those traits I think it could be a really hard experience. For what its worth, at this point I don’t plan to send my toddler to Sidwell or any other top academic private in the area (still in the DC area).
Anon for this says
I went to a pressure cooker public high school and LOVED it, but I had been in decidedly non-pressure cooker schools and really appreciated the better fit for me. My brother on the other hand, absolutely hated the environment and I think it’s had long-term detrimental effects on his desire to succeed and put himself out there professionally. For that reason, I think the private schools or specialized public schools can be great for the right kid but have purposefully avoided raising kids where their zoned high school would be a pressure cooker because I think it’s really hard when its the wrong fit. My kids’ zoned high school will be solid but not outstanding on purpose.
Anon says
Disclaimer is that I’m from the SEUS, but the reputation of my high school in my area is similar to the ones you described, and the outcomes of my classmates were similar. (We were normally maxed out on admissions to Ivies/MIT, etc.)
This type of school was a great fit for me. I was very smart and motivated. I was also self-conscious and didn’t like being “different.” In this type of academic setting, I was by no means the smartest kid in my classes and had lots of peers on my level. I think I would have been really uncomfortable in a school where I was the “smartest” kid. Most of my friends from high school are very successful professionals and would have given me a great network if I’d stayed in the city I’m from. When I interviewed for jobs in that city, my high school always came up.
This type of school was not a good fit for my brother. My brother was not particularly motivated in high school and above average intelligence (like 30-32 ACT score). Because there was so many kids smarter than him, he thought he was not smart… until he went to college at a state school and realized his ACT score was 10 points higher than a lot of his friends. Our school was very bad at building confidence for students that were “average” or “above average” rather than “gifted,” if that makes sense.
Anon says
I went to a pressure cooker you’ve named, and I’m sending my kids there if they get in. One’s there now.
It’s a great school. I did well in college and graduate school because of that school. Also I thrived there and did well under pressure – not all kids have problems dealing with the stress. I think I’ll be able to parent through it because I can emulate what my parents did (which was to put zero pressure on me at home and let me/the school really drive me).
Almost 20 years out my friends from high school are spread across the country doing interesting work – many of them are in government or public interest – and it’s been really fun to see. DH and I also really like the other parents of the kids at our kid’s school – lots of smart professionals, including professional moms, which isn’t as much the case at the non-pressure cookers.
Last thing I’d say is that for us, my DH went to a big and not very good public school. He was at the very top of his class. He’s the biggest proponent of the pressure cooker school for our kids – he likes the way my classmates came out, and he likes that we all know how to work hard. I’m going to watch my oldest to make sure he doesn’t put too much pressure on himself, but I’m confident he’ll be fine. My second kid is really bright and a total teacher’s pet, so not worried about him either. My third, we’ll see – if I don’t think it’ll be a good fit for her, there are other options we can pursue.
No Face says
I went to a high school like this. There is good and bad.
Good: Everyone was smart. Everyone worked hard. Everyone wanted to go to college. Saying, “I can’t hang out because I have a test” was very socially acceptable because everyone cared about their grades. I also developed a phenomenal work ethic. I can power through huge workloads, even today. (I worked until 1am last night and got up at 5am with my little kids. You would not be able to tell looking at me.) I made lifelong friends with incredible, smart people who are doing great things.
Bad: Far too much of my sense of self-worth is based on achievement. During school, it was normal for each of us to have small break downs, especially junior year because we were so stressed, and so busy. There was definitely self-medicating to deal with the stress.
I live in an excellent school district with a non-pressure cooker high school. I would consider a pressure cooker school if one of my children wanted it, but I am not pushing for it.
Anon says
the responses coming in so far have been so interesting to read. i myself went to a pressure cooker high school, (which was a great fit for me – i was extremely academically motivated, etc.) ivy undergrad and law school, and i definitely learned how to think and study in high school and found high school much harder than college, but i also feel like i kind of felt burnt out in my 20s. like i know this is part of life, but it was like i didn’t know how to just ‘be’ or be content, it was and sometimes still is always like working to the next thing, more accolades, promotions, etc. and i haven’t really achieved the professional success of many on this board, though i have a job i like and works well for my family, but it often makes me feel less than bc i don’t earn as much money as i could have, or have as fancy of a career as i could have, etc. i also probably should’ve specified a bit more in my original post, but i was thinking more about the elementary level, when you don’t yet know exactly what kind of learner your kid will be
NYCer says
My daughter goes to a K-12 school similar to those you have named. It really isn’t a pressure cooker in elementary school, and I have no idea if we will stay in NYC until she is in high school, so it works for now. We will reassess down the road. It is a great school though, and she is very happy there. We didn’t really make a conscious decision like “Oh, we want our daughter to go to a ‘pressure cooker’ school,” but for a variety of reasons we knew that we would do private school, and we really liked this school when we did tours.
FWIW, I went to “normal” public school in another state and my husband is French and went to public school in France, and we both turned out OK. :)
AwayEmily says
I went to a below-mediocre public school and am enjoying reading all these smart comments! I especially think it’s awesome that so many of you who did go have such nuanced takes on it — it’s interesting to hear your thoughts on the types of kids it is good for vs not so good for. I went to a selective liberal arts college (Williams) where a lot of my fellow students went to intense private schools. The biggest difference I noticed between them and me was burnout — many of them were so deeply exhausted by the time they started college and had a difficult time finding the joy in the academic side of it. I, on the other hand, was a total cliche of someone completely awestruck by the college experience. Again, TOTAL anecdote here and you should pay much more attention to all the other comments than to mine.
Previous poster says
Ha, I commented above but I went to Williams! I actually think the kids from my school who went there did very well? Not the boarding school kids but the healthy home life, learned to work hard pressure cooker kids. Everyone at Williams worked so hard, but I was already used to it! Loved both experiences. And so happy to hear you were awestruck by the experience. I think Williams is uniquely awesome, but I’ve been so lucky to have had a lot of great academic experiences. I do think Williams did a good job of equalizing between students of different backgrounds compared to the school DH went to which was larger and harder to navigate. He wants our kids to consider it someday. Go ephs.
Anonymous says
I know several kids who attend a high school of that type. The ones who thrive are the ones who were supremely self-assured to the point of overconfidence from an early age, the ones whose parents raised them to believe that they were super geniuses and the sun shone out their a$$es. The kids who are prone to the slightest twinge of anxiety, self-doubt, or perfectionism are crushed by the pressure.
Anonymous says
I don’t 100% agree with your assessment but I agree that it really depends on the kid. I went to MIT undergrad and so had many classmates from these schools. Agree that there were some who handled it well because they thought they were so awesome (and they were genuinely super brilliant), some who were anxious and burnt-out already by the time they got to MIT, and some who rebelled and just became total flower children and prob should have gone to Brown instead.
That would be my only concern – you don’t want to waste your kids’ “drive/competitiveness” capital on high school which in reality is a very non-formative time for most of us. My public school was a place where the top 10 all went to Ivies/Stanford/MIT but it wasn’t a pressure cooker like the ones mentioned here. I’m glad I saved that for undergrad, and potentially even wished I’d saved it for grad school. I think this is especially applicable if you intend to get a PhD. I truly cannot imagine going to like, TJ, then MIT, then Stanford for my PhD. But I know several people who did! I also have a friend who went to Harvard-Westlake, then MIT, then Harvard Law. It just seems like a literal decade of stress and competition. My roommate was from Gunn and that girl was so burnt out she had a nervous breakdown. I think she went into the peace corps after all that.
Anon says
I also went to MIT undergrad and I felt like the TJ/Harvard-Westlake/Gunn people were more prepared for MIT. All the regular public schools kids I knew, me included, had a really hard time adjusting to the academic pressure. But I agree that saving your burnout capital for later in life can be a good plan. I was too burned out after MIT for grad school and a big part of me wishes I’d gone to a less intense undergrad and then gone on to grad school.
I think it really depends so much on your personality type. I’m the type of person who just crumbles from any negative feedback so having professors at MIT tell me ‘you should change majors, you can’t handle this major’ when I did badly on a test just destroyed my self-confidence and interest in school. There are people – more men than women I think, although definitely some women (my mom is one) – who thrive on that kind of criticism and love nothing more than to prove people wrong and I think those people make perfect students for MIT. But I’m not one of them.
Anon says
The idea of burnout capital is interesting. I went to one of these schools and took a scholarship and admission to an honors program at a state school instead of going to a more elite undergrad. I was so burnt out going into undergrad that I feel like I used undergrad to learn all of the social skills I hadn’t learned in high school and ended up going to a T14 law school. Overall, my peers in law school were more similar to those I went to high school with. I’m not really close anymore with anyone from college, though I am still close with many high school and law school friends.
anon for this says
I think that depends on the kid. I went to an ultra high pressure prep school and I was definitely not self-assured – in fact, I was pretty sick with depression and an eating disorder throughout my high school years and was deeply perfectionist. But I did extremely well in high school and actually loved my experience. Many of my college classes (at a good but non-Ivy liberal arts university of the Emory/Vanderbilt/WashU type) were easier than my high school classes were.
Anon says
i’m a bit confused – you were pretty sick with depression and an eating disorder in high school…yet you loved your experience?
Anon says
Yeah I think depression and an eating disorder are exactly the kind of things parents are worried about when they consider opting out of high-pressure schools.
anon for this says
School is only one part of life. My depression and my ED both predated high school and were caused and exacerbated by factors outside of my school experience. I loved school. Other parts of life, not so much.
Anonymous says
Yeah, like the poster here I struggled with depression and a panic disorder through HS, but it had nothing to do with my ultra-pressure cooker HS, and everything to do with my abusive home environment. If I hadn’t had the outlet of school where I could succeed on a high level, things would have been much worse for me.
To OP’s question — I wouldn’t change my going to this school for the world, I am an involved alumna, and I would definitely encourage my child to go if they get in and it’s right for them (based on their elementary school personality, it would be). Frankly, college, law school and my “big” career seem easy to me thanks to learning to work at a very high standard in HS. I have not encountered a group of people that intelligent since then.
Anon says
I think they can be a good fit for kids who are very talented academically. I went to a public high school that was highly-rated for my Midwest state but in retrospect was fairly mediocre. I ended up doing most of my junior and senior years at the local state university but still wasn’t really ever challenged academically. My husband went to a very academically-focused private high school although I’m not sure it was quite as much of a pressure cooker as the ones you’ve named. We both went to very selective colleges, mine slightly more so than his, and had very different experiences. He felt very over-prepared for college coming out of high school and did incredibly well academically. I really struggled – even with the college classes I’d taken I didn’t have as good an academic preparation as many of my peers – and I’d never really been challenged by academic work before and really struggled. I do think my husband has more innate intellectual ability than me, but I also think my grades and self-esteem suffered because I hadn’t really learned how to study. I would think the main benefit of a pressure cooker school is having talented peers in your classes. I had done plenty of college-level work and had a fine mastery of the concepts, but I think many people just don’t learn how to study effectively when they can get the top grade on the test with no effort. On the other hand, I think my college experience would have been even more demoralizing and self-confidence killing if it had happened in high school. At least in college I knew I’d been good enough to be admitted to one of the top schools in the country and I knew I could drop out and go to a less selective college in a worst case scenario.
There are no selective private schools in our area, so our kids will go to the best local public school district, which I think and hope is slightly more intense than my school was, but is still not really what I think of as a pressure cooker school (even though it has that reputation locally).
Anon says
I don’t have firsthand experience with my kids yet, but it’s on my mind as we prepare to move to southern CT (and currently live next to Scarsdale). With the public schools, at least, they are often in extremely affluent communities, so there are elements of wealth, privilege, and maybe white supremacy to deal with, which is actively turning us away from those towns. From an academic perspective, I have several cousins in one such town and all but one of their children have pulled out of high school and done online/private. Acc to my cousins, they were in tears nearly every day, having panic attacks, and needing to take frequent mental health breaks and stay home from school. They are very smart and social justice minded girls and are doing great in college, so I don’t think it was an intelligence issue. The pressure and workload was just EXTREME.
Anonanonanon says
I did not go to an academic pressure cooker school but went to an elite/competitive arts boarding school that was a pressure cooker on the arts side of things. I learned a lot about hard work, taking feedback professionally (getting yelled at by Russians throughout your teens will do that), what is important to me in a working environment, stress management, etc. However, I burned out on the art, so take that for what it’s worth. But, I’m also the type of person that is working a job heavily involved in the COVID response, started part-time law school this semester and have the top grade in at least two of the classes, and two small kids because I just have to keep busy.
I’m weighing in because I was recently thinking about this in relation to my kids, and I think it is 100% kid-dependent. My oldest is 10 and he could not handle a pressure-cooker environment in any sense of the word. My almost-three-year-old, on the other hand, I can already tell will probably be suited for it and thrive in it. Both are OK ways to go through life. I fully expect my oldest to have what I consider a boring job, do well enough financially, be well-liked in the workplace, be a good spouse, and be reasonably happy in life. I think that is plenty to be grateful for.
Anon says
I went to a public pressure cooker school and LOVED it. Like a PP mentioned, I have never worked harder than I did there and that’s been a boon in many respects. I went to a top 10 university, HYS law, biglaw and clerked and still nothing compares to how intellectually challenged I was there. I plan to send my kids to the highly ranked public schools in our area, but am open to private school as well depending on how the fit seems. My high school classmates are still a super tight friend group for me now and incredibly successful across disciplines (business, architecture, medicine etc). I feel so lucky to have had that experience and want my kids to have the same!
Anonymous says
I grew up in suburban NYC and went to a large public high school that apparently has a reputation of being a presssure cooker type school. It was totally fine and I loved it. I was always in honors/AP classes, but I was not ever the smartest kid. The school was big (my graduating class was at LEAST 500-600 kids) but I had class with the same general cohort of kids in the honors track. There were some kids whose parents put a ton of pressure on them. My parents were just sort of continuously surprised that between the two of them they created a self-motivated straight A honors kid. I ended up looking to my friends/my friends’ parents as I got closer to college. My parents both went to college (my mom went to a 2 year tech school and my dad went to a 4 year business college that was a feeder school for a Big Company back in the 70s/80s– think Kodak/IBM etc) but my friends’ parents mostly all went to Very Good Schools– or, at the very least, wanted their kids to go to Very Good Schools.
When I was researching schools, my dad threw out Vassar because “we had a company picnic* there once and it was really nice. Also, my boss’s daughter likes it.”
*my dad worked in sales in the 80s :)
Anon says
I bet the “pressure cookers” today are more intense than those we commenters attended 20 years ago…even rec sports leagues are about 10x more intense. I’m interested to hear if anyone’s kids/friends have attended recently (not OP)
Anon says
It’s a good point. On the one hand, yes probably. On the other hand, my pressure cooker (which was mentioned above) has really focused on student mental health and wellness and whatnot. A lot of parent alums complain that they write a lot less papers now and they only do three exams a semester?
So I think the students might feel they’re under more pressure but also from friends who are teachers there, school itself is easier. Curious what others would say.
Anonymous says
Most of the kids I know who attend our local pressure cooker public high school get about 5 hours of sleep on weeknights. On weekends they sleep in until noon and then work the rest of the day. I don’t know how different the volume of work is from AP or IB courses at the regular public high school, though.
Anon says
+1 my pressure cooker was in college, not high school, but it seems to be a slightly better environment now that there’s more focus on mental health and diversity and inclusion. I feel like a lot of my bad experiences there were related to bias, whether conscious or unconscious, against people who didn’t fit the traditional student model and I’ve heard the same thing from a number of other people in under-represented groups.
aria says
I went to public school adjacent to the type of public school you’re talking about, and I’m glad I didn’t go there! I don’t know what the students who attended that school that I did not. I went to as good a college and grad school there, and have a great career, and also didn’t have a nervous breakdown during high school like so so many people there do. So I would try to put my kid into a “good” school, but not one of those pressure cooker ones. There was also a lot of cheating and other less-than-ideal behavior at one of the private schools you have listed there, and I would not want my kid to be in the environment that made them think that was acceptable.
DC Pressure Cooker School Grad says
I went to a pressure cooker school in DC. I think it negatively impacted by self esteem, which I didn’t realize until my mid-20s. My parents transferred me from DC Public School to the pressure cooker school at age 12, and I remember feeling so different from my classmates. (And at age 12, don’t you just want to feel the same as everyone else?) They seemed super brilliant, supremely confident, and rich. I think I created this narrative in my head of not belonging there, and that imposter syndrome is something I carry with me today despite having gone to law school and landing a “desirable” job. The pressure cooker schools in DC are not in my budget, but even if they were I don’t know if I would send my kid there.
Anon says
I’m sure this depends somewhat on the school and location, but from college it seems like many of these pressure cooker schools have a serious dr*g culture? It was a real shock to me when I went to my elite private college and met a lot of people who’d used hard dr*gs such as coke in high school. As far as I knew nobody at my public high school did anything more serious than alcohol and p0t and even those did not dominate the social scene. Granted, I was studious and ran in AP class/theater kid/debate team circles, but so did most of my college classmates.
Anon says
Mine definitely did not and it was listed. There was some pot. That might be geographic though – I saw a lot more hard drug use from kids in the northeast who went to boarding school. And there was a lot more alcohol abuse at DH’s big public school. My school was mostly a bunch of nerds.
Anonymous says
I agree. In my mediocre public high school, the big acts of rebellion among high-achieving kids were trying to get a table at Denny’s late at night and chalking each other’s driveways. They knew that if they got caught doing anything at all wrong they would end up expelled and consigned to the alternative school. The kids who did anything more illegal than staying out after curfew were the ones who weren’t going to college. In the fancy schools, there is a lot more access to money and drugs along with a sense of entitlement and invincibility.
Anonymous says
I went to a public pressure-cooker school and there were a lot of drugs but they ran along income lines — the rich kids did a lot of coke and E (perhaps this dates me?), and the poor kids occasionally drank or smoked pot. Cigarettes followed the same pattern — rich kids smoked a pack a day, poor kids maybe sometimes. No one was giving drugs away for free, and the pressure to use them wasn’t there if you didn’t have the cash to pay for your share, or to take turns “treating”. Rich kids also went to bars (no one carded back then), but the poor kids didn’t because we couldn’t afford it.
Also most kids were either rich and came from private schools and had tutors, or were poor immigrants with very driven parents. Not many middle class/in between kids.
This was in NYC so there were not a ton of house parties — the rich kids with large places whose parents went away had doormen who would tell the parents, poor kids’ parents didn’t go away. One exception — my friend’s parents moved out of state when we were freshmen and left him in the city alone so his place was the party house. He paid the rent and bills by designing websites on the weekends (this was a long time ago, lol). But again, if you weren’t contributing to the alcohol/drugs fund, you weren’t partaking.
We all drank tons and tons of caffeine though. Tons.
Not really all that anon says
I am late to this party because I have a pressure cooker job lol. I went to TJ. It was hard but not really as hard as maybe it is today / as these other schools are. It was not very difficult. I then went to Princeton. It was much harder than TJ and I needed a much better work ethic there because TJ was so easy. I then went to law school. Law school was easier than TJ. I then went to work at big law firm, where I worked longer hours but the work was much easier than Princeton, but harder than high school and law school. I am now an equity partner. I work about the same as I did at TJ, probably a little bit more. My life is pretty good. Princeton was where I met the smartest and most hard working people that I have ever met in my whole life and where I made all of my friends. But my high school and my big law firm are close. I would 100% send my children to a school like TJ (i.e., selective public school), but I might not send them to private school.
anonymous says
I’d appreciate any ‘just keeping swimming’ motivation today.
I am thisclose to downgrading and/or quitting my job as despite all the ‘we care about you! mental health is important! please let us know how we can support you!’ noises my company is making my workload is simply more than I can handle without working 50+ hours a week. My manager is not pleased with my current level of performance (ie, pretty good but definitely not what it was pre-pandemic) while also not wanting to hear that hey, it’s due to the fact that we don’t have the same level of childcare (part time sitter vs. live in au pair) and while I have set hours for school, there aren’t any after school programs/sports/play dates I can take advantage of. I’m working nights and weekends just to stay afloat but never really catching up/getting ahead. I cried three times this weekend while working because of how badly I felt like I was alternately failing at work/life/parenting.
rosie says
I have to believe that the end is in sight — or at least there is a map that shows a path out of this rather than just scribbles. It will not be fast, but we will get through this.
I don’t know why but something about last week set off a lot for me. Maybe this has been going on so long that I’ve internalized it more. Instead of feeling like I am failing at everything, I feel like I am inadequate and it’s hard to see how what I have to offer will ever be enough. But just keep swimming. We will get through. There is no playbook for how to parent/work/live 9 months into a global pandemic.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Hugs. I so feel you and you/we are NOT failing, this is just a very difficult time and the usual tools of outsourcing caregiving are literally not available right now. I’m sorry that your manager is not supportive, that really sucks. We’re in a global pandemic, with all systems thrown out of whack, we have suffered personal losses and are home taking care of kids, so while I care about my job, I just can’t give it everything I have right now (nor should any of us be expected to). I don’t know if this is great advice, but if I were you, I would continue to work enough to meet deadlines and if you can’t get to non-urgent matters, then so be it, and give your C+ game now. If your manager has a problem, then they can be the ones to suggest part time, not you. Don’t sell yourself short unless necessary. And once this is all over, perhaps it’s time to look for a new position with a better manager (easier said than done, I know).
anonymous says
I wonder if after this people will start moving back to their hometowns. I’ve noticed that the pandemic is SEVERELY disadvantaging those who do not have a strong/deep local support network and/or a stay at home spouse. My team is mostly back to normal (except me) because they either don’t have kids, OR have local family that contributes a LOT of care/a stay at home spouse. I truly don’t think they understand how hard it is to manage when they are now back to relying on younger or healthy extended family to help out. Family isn’t an option for us (hence the au pair until this year, thanks Trump!) and paid care is WAY more money than it was AS WELL AS a much bigger risk. ARGH.
Interesting! says
Hmm maybe. Except myself and a lot of people I know with local family have been doing without because they’re older (late 60s) and high risk! I am a huge proponent of relying on family and I miss it!
Pogo says
We rely on family and it is not a panacea. Lots to navigate w/r/t risk tolerance. But, I am 10000x better off than I would be if we were somewhere else w/o parents and relying on a paid employee.
Anon says
My parents are local and they were a great help between the time our state’s stay at home order was lifted (May) and when we went back to daycare (August). But now that we’re back at daycare, we only see them outdoors with masks on and at a distance, so they aren’t really a replacement for paid childcare. We don’t even feel comfortable leaving them at a playground with our kid, because if she falls down and starts crying we know they would want to comfort her and we don’t want to put them in the position of needing to get too close. Keeping them alive is our #1 goal and unfortunately trumps the convenience of using them as childcare. I think we’re more cautious than most though. We are very hopeful they will be able to get the vax soon because they’re 70 and fall into an essential worker category (they’re currently WFH due to their age, but it is a job that’s supposed to be done in person so we expect them to get vaccine priority), and after the vax we will probably see them normally or at the very least let them watch our kid outside.
Anonanonanon says
This. It is so so frustrating when you feel like you’re putting out 200% effort and producing 75% product. I am so sorry, i think we are all having these moments and it must be particularly frustrating when your boss is a parent and can’t put themselves in your shoes to think about what their situation would be without live-in care.
9 months is a long time while we’re living through it. In the grand scheme, it’s a blip on the radar. I know there have been times I wasn’t 100% because I was super pregnant then had a newborn, or example. We all go through times where we’re not doing as well as we’d like to be because other things get in the way. This is one of those times. Please keep hanging in there. Vaccines are arriving places TODAY and while it will be several months for most of us, I truly feel a pinpoint of light at the end of this tunnel.
Anon says
I’ve worked with so many people who barely got by in their jobs, complained about everything, did mediocre work, and faced few consequences. You obviously care, work very hard, and are a conscientious person. Don’t fire yourself before someone else decides it’s time. Let your mantra be “I am doing my best.”
Anonymous says
I think it might make sense to have a talk with your manager about this. I haven’t met a single person that wants to see an employee quit right now. Or, know your boss– just keep sliding by and you probably wont get fired.
Anon says
How many people think life will look drastically different by summer 2021? Wondering if there will be enough vaccines for the majority of us to feel comfortable eating at restaurants, traveling, going into large crowded offices etc. Been so disappointed by the lack of response to date that I’m not sure how this vaccine rollout will go in 2021
AwayEmily says
My belief is that things will be 90% back to normal in summer 2022. I think this summer will be basically the same as last summer. MAYBE we will feel comfortable seeing grandparents if they manage to get the vaccine, but that’s about it.
Anonymous says
I think this summer will be basically normal with masks in crowded indoor spaces only
Anon says
I so hope you’re right! I will wear a mask, I don’t care about that at all. I just want to be able to go places!
Anonymous says
My best guess is that vaccination will be a slow process, many people will opt out, and the virus will still be circulating widely in the summer of 2021. More risk-averse people will be uncomfortable breathing the same air as others even after they themselves are vaccinated. COVID deniers, risk-seekers, and those who just don’t have the self-discipline to continue making short-term sacrifices will push for a return to “normal” life, and public policy will favor this. By fall, the vaccine will be in wide enough circulation that mask requirements will be dropped, all restrictions will be lifted, and society will expect everyone to go back to pre-pandemic lifestyles, even though it will still be unsafe because the virus continues to spread and the vaccine does not confer 100% protection. The risk-averse will be forced to negotiate permanent remote work arrangements and switch to genuine homeschooling. It will be even worse than the current situation because what very little social support there is for avoiding infection will be completely gone.
Anon says
If even 60% of the country takes a 95% effective vaccine, the virus will quickly be reduced to a level where it’s killing far fewer people than flu, the overwhelming majority of them unvaccinated. Zero infections or deaths is not the definition of success in beating back this virus. The flu kills tens of thousands every winter. I’m not sure the vaccine will actually be widely available by fall, but if it is, things will be perfectly safe.
Anonymous says
There is no way 60% of the country will be vaccinated by fall, possibly ever.
Anon says
Because of availability or choice? I agree there may not be enough availability for everyone by early fall, but I don’t see masks and distancing going anywhere until the vaccine is available to everyone who wants it. But I completely disagree that people will choose not to get it – over 60% of people want the vaccine *right now* and there are plenty of people who will take it eventually but don’t want to be first because they want more data about safety. I think we’ll also see many employers require it and it may be required in certain situations like air travel, which will also drive up how many people take it.
Spirograph says
Choice. What percentage of the population gets annual flu shots? At a population level, coverage never been above 50%. And that’s for a vaccine that is familiar and has been used for a long time. People are understandably leery of a new vaccine based on a totally new technology, and all the same logistical hurdles + good-intentions-but-we-didn’t-get-around-to-it-yet for flu still apply to covid (and then some). I believe adoption will be even lower than seasonal flu vaccines UNLESS it is a condition of attending school, employment, or participation in X.
Anon says
I don’t disagree necessarily that there will be a lot of people that don’t end up taking it out of choice, but I think it’s a little disingenuous to compare it to the flu shot. The same incentive isn’t there. The world has never shut down over the common flu. The flu shot is also guessing at what kind of strand of flu will be out there, and if it guesses wrong is not even effective. My understanding is the COVID vaccine is more effective than that. Most people do not know or have not heard of someone they know that has died of the flu. Not to say it doesn’t happen and not to have empathy for when it does, but to most people it’s one of those rare things you hear about (and even then, not all that often) but don’t experience.
Anon says
WAY more people want this than a flu shot! People know this is much more serious than flu. They’ve done surveys asking people if they’ll take it. 60% of people want it right now (if it were available to them) and the number is going to go up. Vaccine efficacy makes a huge difference. People are fundamentally selfish and don’t want to protect others, they want to protect themselves. Flu shots are 30-50% effective. The most common justification for not getting the flu shot is that it doesn’t work and they’d get the flu anyway. A 95% effective vaccine is totally different. I’m not saying everyone will get it, but 60% is actually not a very high number for a mass vaccination campaign.
Anon says
Anecdotally, none of my relatives get flu shots (I know, I know) but they are all desperate for the Covid vaccines. People don’t get flu shots because the shots are not that effective and the flu is not thought of as a terribly deadly disease (although it does kill many people every year). Covid is very different in both regards.
anon says
^ this. My inlaws who don’t believe in flu shots are very excited for the covid vaccine.
Spirograph says
I dunno, I don’t trust polling very much these days. I hope you’re all right that 60% of people will really get it (I will, but I’m #268M in line, according to the NYT graphic last week), but I’m not convinced.
Anonymous says
If schools make it mandatory that will help a lot.
Anon says
Word on the street is that it’s going to be mandatory for employees and students at the large public university I work at. I assume there will be ways to opt out via medical/religious exceptions, but with a flu shot requirement this fall we had over 90% of employees vaccinated, even with the exceptions.
Anonymous says
I’m not worried about dying. I’m worried about becoming a long-hauler. Until we know that the vaccine prevents “long COVID” in virtually everyone, the vaccine is not going to make me feel safe. And the medical and policy folks care not a whit about long COVID.
Anonymous says
We do know. They studied it. Please don’t spread your anxiety misinformation.
Anon says
I mean I consider 95% virtually everyone but you do you.
Anon says
Honestly, the medical community has a bit of a track record. If things go the way they usually do, they’ll be celebrating that people are fully protected or recovered and then annoyed by all their new “depression and anxiety” patients who will eventually be diagnosed with “idiopathic” nerve damage that they’ll insinuate is all a matter of lifestyle and psychological outlook.
Anon says
I’m not an epidemiologist but I work with them. I expect things to start improving noticeably when ~40% of the population has been vaccinated, so probably late spring to summer. It’s estimated that ~20% of the US has been infected now and 30-40% of the US will have been infected by May, so when you combine that with even ~40% vaccination, it should make a big difference. The virus is also seasonal to some degree and will likely become even more so as more people get some level of underlying immunity, whether through vaccines or infection. We know that outside gatherings are far safer and winter drives people indoors in most of the US. Even without vaccines, I think we’d start seeing marked improvement in April or so when the weather gets nice enough in most of the country for more outdoor stuff. That effect may be more regional though., eg the south may not see much improvement since summer is the “indoor season” there.
That said, the virus will be around and we’ll probably still be making risk-benefit calculations until 2022 or beyond. I will be flying and eating outdoors in restaurants once I’ve had the shot and/or case numbers are significantly lower because those are high benefit activities for me, but I’m not sure when I will go back to indoor dining or movie theaters because those are not things that I personally view as having a lot of benefit.
Anon says
I’d like to be optimistic but I don’t think our country has the ability to do anything “for the greater good.”
I have friends in Singapore and Vietnam and those countries are basically back to normal because they did everything right the first time around and continue to do it right. When my friend returned to Vietnam from the US his 14 day quarantine included location tracking via his phone and the govt delivering him essentials so he didn’t even need to visit a grocery store or pharmacy.
Anon says
I agree no one does anything for the greater good in the US, but the good news about the vaccine being so effective is that a lot of people who don’t care about the greater good will want the shot for selfish reasons. I think this thing would have lasted forever if the vaccines had been more like flu shots with limited efficacy, but the number of people who say they want the shot has surged since the efficacy numbers we’re released.
cbackson says
If they are successful in broad vaccination of medical professionals and residents of long-term care facilities in this first wave and medically high-risk older people in the second wave, I think we will see a much more normal summer 2021. Given that LTC residents account for something like 40% of deaths, protecting this population should dramatically reduce mortality, and protecting medically fragile older people will address the fear many people feel about infecting their parents/grandparents.
Will the pandemic be over? No. But I think that if we have significantly reduced the risk to our largest populations of highly vulnerable people, it will make a lot of people less concerned about returning to normal. Of course under-65s can and do get sick, but I think people are more comfortable assuming the level of risk that younger people face if the risk to older and sicker people has been mitigated.
Anon says
The vaccine being 95% effective makes a *huge* difference. If the vaccine were only 50% effective, nothing would normalize until virtually the entire country had been vaccinated or infected, which might take 2-3 years (assuming at least a quarter of people don’t want the vaccine) and a lot of vaccinated people would end up getting sick anyway. But since it appears to be 95% effective (and even more effective at preventing severe illness) I’m comfortable resuming normal life once I’ve been vaccinated myself. We’re planning to add my local-ish parents to our “bubble” once they’re vaccinated, and we’re really hoping that will happen by March. That alone would be an enormous step towards normalcy for our family. I’m not optimistic about being vaccinated soon myself, since I’m low risk and not an essential worker. I’m guessing the rollout will not go that smoothly and it will be late summer/fall ’21 before I can get the vaccine myself so I don’t really expect the summer to be normal for me.
Anonymous says
The Pfizer vaccine’s effectiveness is as yet unknown. It had 95% efficacy in the very short Phase 3 trial. That doesn’t mean that under real-world conditions, if you get the vaccine you only have a 5% chance of ever contracting the virus. The lifelong consequences of catching the virus are just too great for me to blow them off as, “oh, I did my bit for public health by getting vaccinated.”
I am also really tired of hearing rhetoric like this–it’s not about protecting ourselves, it’s about doing our bit for society. Why am I selfish for wanting to protect myself against lifelong cognitive and physical disability? Am I also selfish for eating right, and exercising, and wearing my seatbelt?
Anon says
I didn’t say you were selfish? Me saying I’m comfortable resuming normal life once I get the vaccine is in no way a judgment on anyone who chooses to be more cautious.
I know the trials are limited data, but trial efficacy is usually reasonably predictive of real world efficacy. I also don’t really care if I get a flu-like illness – for me, the ultimate endpoint is preventing severe illness death and the vaccines (even the ones that aren’t 95% effective at preventing illness) all seem especially effective at doing that, as you would expect.
Anon says
Getting the vaccine and wearing a mask when asked to IS doing your bit for society. I’m tired of the narrative that everyone who doesn’t want to stay at home for the rest of their lives is murdering people. The analogous thing to a seatbelt for Covid is a mask and eventually a vaccine when it’s available. What you’re asking is for people to never drive because some people die in car accidents.
Anonymous says
I’m not asking you to stay home forever. I am asking my employer and the schools to let my family stay home until it is actually safe. What I am tired of hearing is that there is a socially acceptable level of precaution that is to be taken solely for the benefit of others, and that anyone who wants to take additional precautions is “anxious” and just needs to suck it up and get back to participating in the economy.
anon says
Same here! Once we can see grandparents again, everything will feel much more manageable (I hope).
Anon says
It really depends on your risk tolerance. If you’re requiring a true 0 risk from this virus to feel comfortable, that’s probably not going to happen, vaccine or not, in any short to medium timeline. If you’ve accepted that there’s always some level of risk out there, then, once the hospitals are out of danger and highly vulnerable people have had the opportunity to get vaccinated, it’s a choice you’ve got to make.
I personally don’t see any reason why my summer shouldn’t be mostly fairly normal. Absent health care problems and the highly vulnerable, this gets categorized with all of the other risks out there that we just live with, IMO.
Anon says
This.
Anonymous says
Agreed. I am quarantining now largely because hospitals are overwhelmed and almost 3,000 people are dying every day. When this changes, and it will change dramatically when the frontline workers and most vulnerable people get vaccinated, I’m not going to keep staying home.
Anon says
+1
Spirograph says
This.
The only things that would significantly improve my 2021 summer over 2020’s are normal swimming pool usage and the option to go to my office rather than wfh. I think both of those will be possible by then. With kids all past daycare years, it’s probably more cost effective to have a babysitter than do camps, anyway, and our summer vacations have always been driving and low covid risk (we still did our beach rental this past August, the only difference was masks on the boardwalk & in stores).
Anon says
Pools will be huge! They were closed in my area until July last year.
Anonymous says
I think there are 3 camps of people:
A) staying home until ICUs aren’t overwhelmed/govt restrictions are lifted
B) staying home until they’ve been vaccinated
C) staying home until the country reaches herd immunity and the virus is essentially gone
Life will get normal for A before B before C. Im guessing spring for A, summer for B, 2022 or beyond for C. I’m in camp B, personally. I don’t want to catch Covid and since it seems likely I’ll be vaccinated in the next 6-9 months, I’m not going to rush out the second the ICU numbers start dropping. But I’m low risk and once I’m vaccinated, I’m going back to normal life. If other people refuse a vaccine, that’s not my fault and once I’ve gotten the vaccine I’ve done my part for public health.
Anonymous says
I work for a theatre in NYC, and we are still looking at reopening in fall 2021, although probably with masks and better ventilation. (Keep in mind our audience is generally older, NYC residents so not anti-mask, and we can’t afford to be open with reduced capacity). This date has been slipping periodically since everything shut down (back then we thought summer 2020, sob), but it feels a little firmer now. Time will tell but when Dr. Fauci says things will be starting to get back to normal in the third quarter, I believe him.
Anon says
That’s so great! I hope you can open. I miss theater so much :(
Anon says
Best of luck! I have all the love and respect for theaterworkers – you all have suffered and we are rooting for you!
Anonymous says
Aw thanks! I am very lucky to be a fundraiser, so my job is relatively secure. But yeah, it has been terrible for the field and for performing arts in general.
Anon says
So much pessimism on this board. Keep in mind that many experts said we’d be lucky to get a vaccine in a few years time, but we already have several in less than a year! Not only that, these vaccines blew away expectations for efficacy! I believe things will transition in spring/summer 2021. It won’t be zero risk or totally normal, but life will certainly change in big, fundamental ways!
Anon says
This board skews extremely cautious. I don’t know anyone in the real world who is waiting for the virus to be completely eradicated before they leave their house but many people here seem to think that should be our collective goal. If eradication of the virus is your goal, then I think there’s good reason for pessimism – I suspect that will never happen.
Anon says
Yeah I guess being cautious and cynical goes along with the stereotypical temperament of many lawyers.
Anonymous says
The cautious and cynical among us were proven right by the U.S.’s catastrophic failure to respond, so …
Anon says
Trump will be out of office soon. The US response to the pandemic will certainly change at the federal level. A highly effective vaccine is already in distribution and others will be coming soon. Treatments for COVID have already improved since March. I see real reasons for hope, if not celebration.
Anon says
I see real reasons for hope, if not celebration. Trump will be out of office soon. The response at the federal level will certainly change for the better. We already have a highly effective vaccine in distribution — with more on the way. Treatment options have significantly improved since the pandemic began. These are not small things.
Anon says
Fwiw, I said in March that we would be sheltering in place until a vaccine was widely available, and I feel very optimistic now that things will be essentially normal by the summer or fall. I definitely have a cynical and cautious personality and I predicted both the terrible federal government response and the complete unwillingness of Americans to make any sacrifices to protect others. But the vaccine development has been astounding – much faster and way more effective than the experts predicted – and I really expect life to normalize by mid-late 2021 now.
Anon says
Yes, this board is sooo much more conservative than anyone I know in the real world (I know, not everyone on here, but certainly the loudest ones). I actually stopped reading for a couple of months partly because I couldn’t take the anxiety anymore, and it was really eye opening to realize how skewed my view was based on reading this board vs how people feel/act in real life. (And before you @ me, I’m in the Bay Area, everyone is generally cautious, wears masks, cares about people etc. Just aren’t the level of anxiety and absolutism as on this and the other main board).
Anon says
As something of a counterpoint, my husband and most of my friends are as conservative as most people here and basically won’t do anything except activities that can be done 1) outdoors, 2) with masks on and 3) at a distance. Most of my close friends don’t even have their kids in daycare because of concerns about Covid. There are definitely plenty of people who are less cautious than many here, but I also know a lot of people who are equally cautious.
Pogo says
Counterpoint I also read a local moms’ board that is mostly SAHMs with much less education than this board (like, zero lawyers that I know of) and it also skews very conservative in terms of risks & mask-wearing, vaccines, etc. Sure there are some actual Karens on there who just like to stir stuff but most people want to do their part to get things back to normal sooner rather than later and they want their family to be safe. No one does indoor dining. Very few people have their kids back in any type of activities. Many keep their kids fully remote rather than hybrid. People take the 14 out of state quarantine requirement seriously. This board does not seem crazy based on my lived experience.
Anon says
I have also been shocked by the extreme views on this board. Many in my peer group are cautious about the virus, but they don’t have the same level of negativity and fear and rage.
Anonymous says
1:10 anon, do you live somewhere with a solid public health response and good mask compliance? If so, that’s probably why you aren’t seeing “rage” among your friends. I am enraged because our church was having in-person services and one of the lay leaders conspicuously refused to wear her mask. I am enraged because our schools are open with no distancing and are becoming huge sources of spread, but the school board refuses to pull the plug and the governor is ignoring our rogue district. I am enraged because the health department is directing COVID patients to identify and notify contacts themselves. I am enraged because all of these people who refuse to wear their d@mn masks are making my family and me into prisoners in our own home. If we lived in a normal sensible place where people cared about human life and actually wore masks, maybe I wouldn’t be so filled with rage.
Anon Lawyer says
I also don’t think this board is crazy. Most people I know are being pretty careful – no travel by plane, no indoor dining, limited (sometimes no) socialization outside their immediate household, which seems pretty consistent with this board. If anything, folks here have seemed more casual about things like pool parties over the summer than the people I know in real life.
Personally, I’ve tried to adjust my behavior in response to cases. I was socializing outside and doing some limited outdoor dining over the summer; I’ve cut that out completely as our cases have risen.
Anon says
I think the difference is the level of judgment. Most people I know in real life, my family included, are staying home most of the time and not really doing much expect school/work, outdoor activities, travel by car only and maybe visiting with one or two other households in their bubble. I haven’t set foot in a grocery store or restaurant since February. The difference is that in real life I don’t see the same level of judgment for people who aren’t quarantining the same way. I think it’s fair to judge people who refuse to wear masks or ignore government rules and throw 200 person weddings; those people are clearly being irresponsible and not taking the rules seriously at the expense of other people. But among people who are taking Covid seriously, there’s still a large spectrum of behavior because different people have different risk tolerances and also different ideas of what’s most important to them. In real life I don’t know anyone who is getting themselves all in a tither about a mom taking a kid to the grocery store, someone getting a hair cut, someone flying on a plane, eating outside at a restaurant, attending immediate family only weddings, etc. (all examples from here/the main page). Quite honestly, I think it typically comes from a place of jealousy that these people don’t feel the level of anxiety you do or have calculated the risk differently for that activity (and I’m not immune to these feelings myself, my husband is more cautious than I am and I’ve definitely felt envy seeing friends do certain things). I’ve also stopped reading the main page because of the constant, repetitive hand-wringing about Covid. It’s exhausting and even if the people complaining are right, it doesn’t change anything. Some people here have mentioned the abstinence only metaphor and I think it’s a very good one. An 18 month lockdown was never realistic. Human contact is a basic need. We need to educate people about how to do every activity in the most responsible way, set up reasonable limits like don’t throw giant weddings, and then let people make their own decisions.
AwayEmily says
Interesting. Maybe the judgment is more of a main page thing — I haven’t really seen a ton of it here. I remember on Halloween people posted about a wide range of things they felt comfortable with/were planning on and nobody got particularly judgy, even though there were big differences. But then I often scroll through many of the COVID stuff so perhaps I missed it.
Anon Lawyer says
I will admit, I quit reading the main page pretty early in the Pandemic. It seemed like every time I went over there, someone was saying some horrible thing about some group of people who they deemed responsible for all our problems.
Boston Legal Eagle says
I keep thinking of how fortunate we are to have these vaccines so (relatively) quickly and so effective, assuming the 90+% holds out. I don’t want to think about having to do this for years. I do think that we’ll be back to some sense of normalcy by summer and I’m especially hoping that schools will be back to normal by next fall. Even without a vaccine, we would have needed to adjust to this virus somehow to get kids back in school because remote learning indefinitely is just not a good option IMO, but having a vaccine makes that feel even safer.
For us personally, my parents will likely get the vaccine first and then we’ll get it, and by summer we’ll probably take a few driving trips. I’m not sure if we’ll fly, but we probably would have made the decision based on the kids’ ages anyway. Again, hoping that school resumes as normal in fall, my older kid will be in K and my younger one will hopefully remain in daycare without the strict Covid policies of illnesses, and we’ll have backup coverage from my parents. We’ll try to each WFH at least 2 days a week, which is one good thing to come out of this if companies are more willing to accept this.
I do think we’ll still have mask requirements on public transit and in crowded areas through next fall and winter, but restaurants will be open, maybe at reduced capacity, and businesses in general will start to open up fully.
Anonymous says
I would feel a whole lot better about going back out in public places once the vaccine is in wide distribution if masks were still required. I think that as soon as the general public has access to the vaccine, masks will no longer be “required” (using quotes because at least 25% of the people “wearing” masks are not wearing them properly), and it will be increasingly difficult to choose to wear them. I can’t imagine masks’ even being allowed in schools next fall if the vaccine is available. Even if masks were permitted kids wouldn’t actually wear them unless required, because wearing a mask in a mask-optional situation would lead to bullying.
Anonymous says
I think masks will be happening in school in the fall. Kids will be lucky if they receive vaccines in the fall as the studies have been focused on adults.
Anon says
Kids under 16 won’t possibly be vaccinated by the fall, so there will definitely be masks in schools next fall. I do think many more (hopefully all!) schools will be open for in-person instruction, because teachers and staff will be able to get the vaccine.
Anon says
I think masks will be in schools for a long time, unless the virus is completely gone, because of the issue that there’s no vaccine approved in kids. But I definitely worry that we’ll be too quick to abandon masks in other public settings. I would hope they’d be in place past general public vaccine availability, but at the very least they should be in place up to that point. I fully expect my red state governor to drop our mask mandate the instant our hospitalization numbers start dropping, and then I will have to stop doing a bunch of stuff I’m comfortable doing now. I won’t even want to go into the grocery store if there’s no mask requirement and I don’t yet have the vaccine.
Anonymous says
Our school district will ban masks ASAP. This is the same district that does not allow girls to wear headbands because they are “gang paraphernalia,” despite the fact that there is zero known gang activity in the county. They are already forcing kids to take off their masks to eat lunch in classrooms less than 3 feet apart. And they continue to blame the school outbreaks on play dates and parties.
Anon says
How could a school ‘ban’ masks? I understand they might stop mandating them and most people won’t wear them if they’re not mandated, but I don’t see how they could possibly ban them outright.
Anonymous says
In our state it’s still technically illegal to wear a face covering, and face coverings (bandanas, balaclavas, etc.) are against the school dress code.
Anonymous says
They would just need to enforce the existing dress code and state law prohibiting face coverings.
Anon says
i don’t think daycare covid policies are going away anytime soon. i just spoke with a daycare about enrollment for next fall and they said while they obviously do not know for sure, they will likely still require masks and have a similarly strict sick policy until vaccination rates are fairly high and people feel good about vaccinating kids. they also said that parents will likely still not be allowed in schools, etc. i know many adults who are eager to vaccinate themselves, but are much more hesitant to vaccinate their kids, myself included
Anon says
Our daycare director told me the same thing, that it will likely be the current protocols until kids can get the vaccine. I’m not sad about masks, but definitely a little bummed that the kids won’t get field trips and guests in the classroom and stuff like that, because our school did such an amazing job with that stuff. I know in the grand scheme of things it’s not a great loss and I should be grateful just to have full-time childcare, but it’s still a bummer. A part of me also thinks that our societal attitude toward Covid will change a lot when any adult who wants a vaccine can get one, and the hospital and death numbers have come way down. Once all the parents and teachers who want to be vaccinated can be vaccinated, I suspect people may be a little bit more relaxed about it (especially given how mild the illness is in most kids) and push back on some of the more onerous restrictions. We shall see. School with masks and no visitors or field trips is obviously much more sustainable long term than no school.
FVNC says
We plan to see grandparents as soon as they’re vaccinated, hopefully spring/early summer, and also hope to resume normal outdoor activities like pools, playdates, and get-togethers with neighbors this summer. The “normal activities” part is TBD depending on how quickly vaccines are rolled out, of course, but seeing grandparents is a priority that we’re going to do as soon as they feel comfortable (regardless of whether we’ve been vaccinated or not).
Anonanonanon says
I am more cautious than most and we are a public health responder household so I’m probably conservative on this, BUT I think it is possible I will feel comfortable dining out, at least outdoors, by summer 2021. Which for me is a big step forward.
The roll-out in pretty state-dependent so far (could change if the new administration decides on a national strategy) but the funding and planning for mass vaccination has been in place for years and handled largely at the state and local level. It’s really doing to depend what state you’re in and even what locality within that state, how dialed in your personal healthcare provider is to this process, so many factors.
Don’t forget, you have to have the vaccine, wait a month, get your second dose, then wait a couple of weeks for it to be fully effective. I think June is a safe guess (again, no way to tell today) for the general population to start getting a needle in their arm, but I’d wait until August to count myself protected. (again, this guess is based almost entirely on my gut and the plan in my specific state. This is obviously not any kind of official prediction.)
I hope to feel comfortable enough to travel driving distance, stay in a hotel, wander around parks and sites (masked and distanced to the extent possible) and eat at restaurants by Fall 2021. Again, I’m high risk and more cautious than most, and like the whole experience it’s going to have a lot to do with personal risk tolerance.
Anonymous says
Definitely agree with you that everyone who’s saying “I’ll do X when I’m vaccinated” should wait until 2 weeks after the second dose because you’re not fully protected until then, but there was some encouraging news recently that Pfizer’s was over 50% effective after just the first dose. Unfortunately some people will not go back for the second dose if the first shot is painful or gives them a fever, so I think for population-level health that’s really good news that there’s some protection from just one dose.
Anonymous says
Also, Johnson & Johnson is not too far from a single-dose vaccine. It’s impossible to know what will happen by summer, but Pfizer’s vaccine is not necessarily going to be the one most Americans are given, especially by summer 2021.
Anon says
Very true. Every approved vaccine makes it much easier to vaccinate 300 million people. It will be a real challenge if we only have Pfizer and Moderna – the US currently only gets 100M doses of Pfizer and 200M Moderna, so that’s only enough for 150M people between the two. More could potentially be ordered, but they would arrive no sooner than Q3, so if those are the only two we have the general public definitely won’t all be getting vaccinated in the summer. I’m trying to be optimistic about J&J, although the lesser effectiveness of AstraZenaca was not heartening, since J&J and AZ are the same kind of technology and different from Pfizer and Moderna.
AwayEmily says
I have a shoe question for fellow cold-weather parents. We try to take our kids (3 and 5) on a multiple-hour outdoor trip each weekend day (an easy hike, a playground, etc). When it’s snowy or rainy, they wear boots. However, when it’s like it was this weekend (zero snow or rain, but ~30 degrees), they get understandably annoyed by the clunkiness of boots. But their sneakers (Saucony jazz kids) are too cold. Are there, like, insulated sneakers? Or do you think just investing in a pair of wool socks for each of them to wear under their sneaks would work?
Anonymous says
What kind of boots do they have? Softer “moon” or “puffer” snow boots will be tolerated better than stiff, clunky ones.
anon says
Are they complaining about being cold? My kids just wear sneakers (StrideRite Made2Play) in that kind of weather and never whine about cold feet (though they will complain they’re legs are cold when they only wear thin leggings against their parents suggestions). I’d suspect wool socks would help, though.
Anon says
+1
AwayEmily says
The 5yo does. The 3yo has a moral objection to complaining about the cold.
OK, I think wool socks is a good first step. I don’t really want to buy a whole other pair of shoes.
Cb says
Could you cut a sheepskin lining to fit their boots? My son wears sneakers all year around (typical winter weather is around 28-35F) but sometimes with extra pairs of socks.
anon in brooklyn says
I love the See Kai Run winter boots. Waterproof, insulated, but no heavier than sneakers. I buy my daughter a pair every winter and they’re her everyday shoes and her snow boots.
anon says
We do warm wool socks (Polaryn O Pyret or Smartwool) plus a short (slightly-above ankle), shearling-lined Ugg bootie for my 3-year old and she seems good with it. We also do two layers of pants though – I tuck the wool or synthetic base layer pants in the smartwool socks then we do a mid-weight sweatpant from Reima on top and then roll the sweatpant outer layer over the top of the ugg boots to seal any gaps. I think this is a big thing – you don’t want any exposed skin!
If it isn’t cold enough for the two layers of pants, then I do long (almost-to-knee) wool sock under fleece pants and try to pull the fleece pants over the top of the bootie. (I hate being cold and have a similarly-sensitive toddler.)
Anonanonanon says
^Exactly the same. Wool socks and a very similar brown suede boot. Uniqlo ultra warm heattech leggings either as the pants or under the pants depending on the temp. Or merino wool base layers.
anne-on says
We do kids merrels. They aren’t as good for true deep snow, but they are MUCH warmer than sneakers and fairly waterproof. Plus slip on/off is always popular.
Pogo says
+1, we do kids keens. I will try to link the ones we have.
Pogo says
Here’s the ones we have – https://www.keenfootwear.com/p/C-TARGHEE-MID-WP.html
EB0220 says
What do they have now? We did a 3.5 mile hike in the snow this weekend (about 1000 ft of elevation gain, so not super easy). My 8 year old wore her Muck Boots, 6 year old wore her Kamik snow boots. No complaints from either one. If it’s not actively wet, you could consider warmer socks. My kids like the Darn Tough kids hiking socks.
AIMS says
Similar to the boots questions, I could use some warm layer suggestions. My daughter’s school keeps the windows open this winter and it’s in the 30s and windy in NYC this week. I got a bunch of uniqlo heat tech leggings for her, and we do layers like turtlenecks under everything, but looking for more ideas. Like where can I buy actual leg warmers for a 5 year old? Etsy has lots of options but most are acrylic or cotton and for looks only. I’m thinking I should be looking at ski shops or something similar but would love specific recommendations. Thanks!
Cb says
I’d get an Etsy shop to make you some wool leg warmers or long wool socks?
Anonymous says
Look for dance legwarmers. They will still tend to be acrylic or cotton, not wool, but they are designed to keep muscles warm.
TheElms says
What about jeans or sweatpants over leggings? That’s what I do when its really cold.
GCA says
What about layering some heattech long underwear under fleece leggings or joggers? (Obviously this depends on the child and their willingness to wear different varieties of pants – my 2yo is fairly easy to layer because she vehemently objects to pants without pockets.)
Anon says
Would kids’ Darn Tough socks be warm enough?
anon says
I replied above about boots but I’d check out Reima and Polyarn O Pyret for some good layers. Some of my favorite base layers are rom Ella’s Wool. We typically do Ella’s wool pants and Reima sweatpants over. I also like Columbia’s selection for little kids. You might also try giving her some hand warmers for her pockets?
Anon says
Babyshop dot com also has a lot of other Scandinavian brands like Reima. We have a bunch of Joha wool from there but they have a big selection.
Anonymous says
How about fleece pants? I got some for my son from Carters that are quite thick and cheap. Old Navy usually has them too.
Anonymous says
PS – I mean like polarfleece, not sweatshirt fleece
Anonanonanon says
Did you get the ultra warm heattech? huge difference in warmth from the normal. Are you doing the heattech shirts as well? I would do maybe the normal heattech leggings (the kind of thin ones) with the ultra warm (fuzzy-lined) ones on top, with wool socks and boots.
Anon says
warm socks that pull up high + warm boots always help me stay warm. like wool socks with uggs. i understand the desire to minimize covid, but also keeping windows open in 30 degree windy weather seems a bit much to me (and i skew very very cautious/conservative in regards to covid). what about gloves of some kind that still allow her to write?
Anonymous says
how has nobody made a fleece lined tights joke yet??
I would think if it’s cold enough that she needs to wear outdoor gear inside, their hands will FREEZE. Does she have knit gloves?
Anne says
DMV area folks – Any advice on where to get PCR COVID tested this Wednesday and Thursday? We’re quarantining and testing in advance of seeing elderly family members for Christmas (no travel outside of the region) and need to get tested on those days. We were going to go to the judiciary square public test site, but are afraid it will be closed if it does snow on Wednesday. We’re in NW DC, but happy to drive as needed. Thanks!
Spirograph says
MoCo has free pop-up testing sites everywhere; it says you don’t need to show any ID or doctor order, and also says that it’s available to all county residents. Not sure how they check that if they don’t ask for ID, so you may be able to use those? I’ve heard different stories about wait times, I think it very much depends on when you show up. My neighbors went right at opening and said they were through in 10-15 min.
My family got tested at RightTime a month or so ago. We ended up with a bill for $150, so check your insurance policy, but we made a same-day appointment and it was fast and easy. If the cost isn’t an issue, I’d make an appt at an urgent care clinic.
Anne says
Thanks! Very helpful!
Anonymous says
There’s a drive through testing site just across the river (and right off 695) on MLK Boulevard in DC. It should be scheduled to be open at least one of those days, and I don’t think it closes due to weather like some of the walk-up sites do.
Anon for this says
Does anyone care to comment on what it is like to raise children in the DMV? DH and I are considering a move there in the next few years because we love the area, and we have two small children. I know it is expensive, so we would probably wait until our oldest is in elementary school. How hard is it to get into decent daycares and aftercare programs? Do the schools do highly inconvenient things like release kids at noon once every week (like our current school district does)? Any and all opinions very much welcome!
Anon says
not exactly an answer to your question, but I grew up there in Montgomery County and it was a great place to grow up. Where I lived, everything needed in my day to day life was so close by (which now that i live elsewhere I am struggling with getting used to having to driver farther) – my school, multiple supermarkets, pediatrician, orthodontist, mall, metro, etc. were all 5-10 minutes away. The place where I went for SAT classes back in the day was like 25 minutes, which was ‘far’ to me. One parent worked in the burbs and had a 20 min driving commute to work. My other parent had different jobs over the years – some in the burbs, but some downtown, with an approx 45 min door to door commute, though in the final years before retirement, the metro became increasingly unreliable. in elementary school we often went to museums as a family about once a month, and my parents often went out to dinner in DC proper (they love cities though and not all their friends like to go to DC as much as they did). The schools there loved snow days – chance of snow, let’s cancel school. I remember the first time there was a snow flurry in college and I couldn’t wrap my head around the fact that I was actually supposed to go to class
Spirograph says
lol, so true. There’s snow in the forecast for mid-week, and as much as I make fun of them every other year, I’m feeling nostalgic for the overzealous, preemptive school closures. :)
Anonymous says
We still have snow days for on-line school. It is maddening.
Anonymous says
Wait, really?!
Anon says
Apparently it’s because a number of teachers are teaching from their (empty) classrooms…
SC says
We had 5 or 6 hurricane days this fall, and the schools did not have virtual school, even on the days when there were no actual impacts from a hurricane. Apparently, many teachers live outside the levee protection zone, where there are mandatory evacuation orders for every storm, even while our parish is advised to shelter in place. There were also concerns about power and internet access, and I guess they have to decide whether there will be virtual school before they can tell the storm hit 200 miles away.
Anon says
Haha – so true. I slept in and didn’t do my homework when I saw snow in the forecast my freshman year. (Marylander in college in PA). Joke was on me.
Anonymous says
I think the answer to this will vary widely depending on where in the DMV you’re considering! MoCo schools are different from PG schools (where I live) are different from DC public, from DC charter, from NoVA, etc.
Anon says
If you asked me 5 years ago if I would raise kids here, the answer would have been a hard no. But here we are with a 3 year old trying (unsuccessfully yet again this month, sigh) for number 2 and no plans to move. There are a couple of things that have made the difference. First, we have found a good network of people who were born and raised here and are also raising their kids here. It has lead to a multi-generational sense of community I normally do not associate with the DMV given that many people move in and out fairly regularly (that is changing in the last 10-15 years in my opinion). We are in a neighborhood that is turning over as people age out, but most people in our neighborhood are here for 10 to 20 years. Our friend group is also what I would refer to as “down to earth” people who are not focused on the trappings of keeping up with the Joneses, which is very easy to find around here in such a high net worth area (nevermind the HCOL). Second, we were able to buy a ridiculously overpriced house (seriously, for this price I expected acres and a guest house and maybe some horses for good measure) with a little bit of land (half acre) backing to parkland, so it feels much more rural to me (like where I grew up), but because I work in the suburbs it’s still easy to get to work. I love that my kid gets excited bird watching and chasing deer and squirrels and other wildlife in the backyard. Third, I love my job. It’s a unicorn job in Big Law and would be extremely difficult to replicate elsewhere, even if I stayed with my same firm. Fourth, DH is an only child and his parents are aging (80s), not in great health and in the area, so even if we wanted to, I doubt we would move until they are gone. Fifth, a number of my friends from high school and law school have moved to the broader DMV area, so it is nice to see them as well (although they are typically 45+ minutes away even without traffic so we don’t see them as often as our more local group who all live within 15 minutes).
Spirograph says
Oh I think there are lots of us here. I’ll bite:
DMV is big, and I think this is very dependent on which suburb or neighborhood you end up in. I love where we live in downcounty MoCo. Our elementary school (when it’s not virtual) is great, KAH aftercare is wonderful and I’ve heard similar raves about Bar T, and it was no problem to get a spot in non-pandemic years. KAH covers all those random school closure days, which is such a luxury. You do have to consider traffic when planning extracurriculars in a way that wasn’t necessary where I grew up, but there’s just so much choice here. Anything you or your kids want to do, you can find a place at the level of commitment and intensity you want (at least for younger kids). Plus, there are very few places that can match DC for accessibility of museums and cultural activities. There are lots of over achievers in the DMV, but I find my neighbors pretty down-to-earth; we don’t live in a pressure cooker area and try to avoid those circles.
not using usual name for this says
I hate it here. I’m in a suburb (Fairfax) and I absolutely hate it. I pay a premium for living near DC but I’m not IN DC so I don’t fee like I get my money’s worth. Want to move to DC but realistically need to be able to afford $1M house to live in a decent school district (my kids are far apart in age so we really have to look at decent elementary, middle, AND high which narrows it down a lot). We’re not quite there yet. I’d be more at peace with being here if we were in DC proper, but that is my personal quirk and I know a lot of people that would give anything to be able to live even further out in the suburbs to have more land/space.
Schools close all the time for snow. Finding backup care for our elementary-schooler was a bit of a challenge, and it was a bit of a challenge to find summer care that actually supported a full workday. Pre-COVID, we paid about $20K/year in childcare for our child in public school. We used a daycare that took him to/from school, covered most snow days/teacher work days, and had a summer camp.
That being said, I gripe, but in the burbs we are living far below our means which pre-COVID meant it wasn’t a huge deal to get a sitter, go to DC, spend a lot on dinner and cocktails, etc. Also means we were able to pivot from daycare to Nanny and financially survive. So, I complain, but also count my lucky stars we didn’t live in DC when this all happened.
We don’t have extended family here, I don’t like the cold. We’re trapped in the same cycle a lot of people are. This is the place to be for our careers, and our salaries are pretty inflated because of our location.
Anonymous says
We have a 3.5yo and 16mo. I live in MoCo (I guess down county? Mid county? It’s a huge county). We used to live in Fairfax. NoVa was too expensive for us to buy a house. I thank my lucky stars we have a 4 bedroom house and yard during this pandemic. After living in the area for 11 years we finally have a sense of community due to us having kids and making parent friends. There’s SO much for kids to do here (for free!!) even during pandemic times. The Parks & Rec departments are next level with the amount of playgrounds, weekend and weekday programs, nature centers and activities. MoCo was originally built up in the 40s-60s with all kids having walking access to playgrounds and elementary school. My husband works downtown and is essential so his commute home is 45mins – 1hr which sucks but isn’t horrific (on the way in is short). Commute makes a huge difference here
Anon Lawyer says
I moved back home (Portland, OR) to have kids and am glad I did every day. I don’t want my kid growing up feeling like she should be like the people upthread who want to send their kids to crazy expensive private schools and I don’t want her to feel lesser because those aren’t our priorities and we don’t have that kind of money. And I don’t want to spend an unsustainable portion of my income on housing or else commute a million miles to work or live in a teensy tiny space. Here, we can have a reasonably sized and priced place near to (honestly) better restaurants, plus a vibrant community. It’s not perfect (yikes the lack of diversity) but I always knew I didn’t want to raise kids in the DMV.
Anonymous says
Hi! I made the same move and reading what you wrote I wondered if I had responded earlier and forgotten!
Anon Lawyer says
Hah! We should get together for a drink post-covid. :-)
Anon says
I loved growing up in north Arlington with a single dad. I spent a ton of time in my school’s after care program and made friends and had some good connections with staff there. After care just started earlier on early release days. The schools were great. I probably missed out on some stuff due to not having a sahm, but it was fine.
Growing up where I did skewed my view of the world a bit—-I was much more exposed to careers like lawyer, lobbyist, and foreign service officer and really didn’t know much about other fields. That’s easily remedied by a parent with social capital, though.
Anonymous says
Lots of opinions on here! Like others I’ll echo I think it really matters where you are and your social circle. We live in DC proper, and so far, with young kids, I really love it- tons of free museums, parks, playgrounds, stuff to do, etc, plus all the great restaurants. We have a small townhouse, and even when things shut down in the pandemic spring we were able to get outside and take a long walk to various parks and riverfronts every single day. When we went to visit my parents bigger house in the suburbs, yes we had more yard space but my kids got very bored of not being able to walk anywhere and only having one playground nearby, plus having to get into the car all the time. We are zoned into a fine elementary school, will cross the middle/high school bridge when we get there. I was really hoping to get into the free prek, but am ok with leaving my kids in their beloved daycare (which was hard to get into, but obv the landscape of daycare availability has changed in covid times).
Our social circle is generally friends and coworkers that share our same values. However, I do have a former coworker who is fully immersed in the intense child raising track mentioned above- he is sending his children to Sidwell, and at 4 years of age, his daughter was in violin, gymnastics, piano, and ballet on the weekends. Hearing about it from him does not make me want to be a part of it. Finally, I was also raised in a very white, not racially diverse area of the country and really value our diverse neighborhood and schools. Two parent working households are also very much the norm.
Anon says
Can anyone point me towards a good jump rope for my not very coordinated 6 year old? She asked for one for christmas so she can practice at home – oops. I see a lot online but not sure on right length, etc.!
octagon says
We bought the HearthSong adjustable jump rope from Target for kiddo. It’s a Christmas gift so can’t comment on quality, but the adjustable feature is what sold it.
PP says
Thanks!
Anonymous says
I realized this morning that after 8 months, I have stopped enjoying my kids. What I mean is, it used to be that we had smaller amounts of time together, so we did Quality Things. Now, we are just all so sick of eachother that we watch TV or do art separately or I yell at them and tell them to go play in the playroom and don’t bother me until dinner.
Has anyone done any kind of project/craft/whatever with kids recently that was enjoyable for everyone? Mine are 2.5, almost 5 and 7. Bonus if the output is giftable as I’m seriously struggling with extended fam that has everything (except in person christmas, which is the only thing they want) this year.
At my direction, DH and the kids built a birdhouse as a christmas gift and it was a fun project. The kids all got to help design and build it and then they painted it. (sorry, grandma!!). I ordered stuff to make cocoa bombs but it’s all backordered and not hear yet. We are decorating cookies later this week. Maybe 15-30 min time max as the wheels seem to fall off after that long if it’s a project with all 3. Nobody naps anymore either.
anon says
We had a lot of fun with clay (oven bake) ornaments at that age range. Also shrinky dink ornaments.
Anonymous says
Oh! That’s ambitious for my youngest but my older two would love it.
Anon says
I made and painted salt dough ornaments with my 3 year old a few weeks ago and it was a hit. It was pretty easy and not terribly messy. They came out semi-cute and we mailed a few off as gifts. There’s a “recipe” and instructions on the Yummy Toddler Food blog if you wan to look it up.
AwayEmily says
Yes! I just did salt dough ornaments with my 5yo and 3yo and it was super fun. I relinquished almost all control and they loved using the cookie cutters, painting (washable tempera paint worked fine), using glitter, gluing on googly eyes, etc. I got a jar of Mod Podge from Target so I could “finish” them with a protective coat once they were done.
Anonymous says
Similar age kids and agree that around 30 minutes is where the wheels fall off. My strategy for this is breaking activities down into stages so we don’t get sick of each other and still want more. For example – baking cookies is three days – day 1 is mix gingerbread dough and chill in fridge, then day 2 is roll dough, cut shapes, bake, then day 3 is decorate cookies. I would lose my mind if I did all three stages in one day. But each stage on it’s own is like 30 minutes max.
It’s about quality time not quantity time. A great 15-30 minutes really matters and an hour of ipad afterwards matters a lot less.
Anon says
question about this – my 2.5 year old twins have trouble with activities that involve that waiting element (which i obviously realize they need to learn), but like oh, lets mix dough and let it chill in the fridge and not eat the cookies for a whole other two days i don’t think would go over very well in their book. any tips to do this without major tantrums?
Anonymous says
I don’t think I could stretch things out 3 days either with my 3.5yo, but I do make bread with her and say “the dough needs to take a nap!” When it’s proofing and that works. Could you make dough the night before (after they’re in bed), cut out/bake in the morning, decorate after their nap?
Anon says
For my 3YO we made another kind of cookie that didn’t require chilling after putting the sugar dough in the fridge and she forgot all about the sugar dough. We made dough on Sat. and then cut, baked and decorated on Sun.
Anonymous says
I just let them have bits along the way. Like everyone gets a spoonful of dough before it goes in the fridge (egg free dough) on mixing day. And everyone gets a cookie without icing on baking day. And allowed one cookie on icing day and one cookie each day thereafter. Helps teach moderation.
Anon says
do all kids go to bed at the same time or do the older two stay up a bit later? if so, maybe a board game with them? not me, but someone i know with kids of similar ages recently had success with shrinky dinks. the 2.5 year old required a bit of help, but all kids were able to engage at their own level. if you are ok with a bit of mess, i think painting any object – whether it be a small canvas (i remember feeling so grown up or like a real artist whenever i got to paint a canvas), or wooden object (michaels has a ton of fairly inexpensive options). buy a mini gingerbread house kit so each kid can decorate their own. i’m sure you’re exhausted and not necessarily into ‘researching’ activities, but if you look up dayswithgrey, i think her kids are around similar ages to yours, so some of her ideas might be good. i’ve noticed that for us, going outside, even if it is only for 15-20 min is huge
Anonymous says
They all go to bed at pretty much the same time. Littlest goes first but the other two are on their way to bed too.
Anon says
I’m amazed it took you 8 months ;)
Anonymous says
We’re making terrariums as gifts for a few impossible-to-shop-for family members. The kids picked out colorful fishtank rocks, plants, and special rocks in our yard and little figurines for decoration. I’ll report back on whether it makes me want to tear my hair out when we actually do it this weekend, but it seems like it should be fun. This obviously doesn’t work if the gifts need to go in the mail, but good for anyone local-ish!
Anonanonanon says
I don’t know if these are quality time ideas, but as someone who is just trying to get through/tolerate the slog that is the weekend every week, here are some things we’ve done recently to kill time.
My almost-three-year-old who never stops moving was pretty occupied this weekend with stickers. I had to sit there and hand her each one even though she could get them off herself (they were puffy stickers so easier to get off) but it was nice to just sit still for a bit. I also got some sticker packs that have santa, elves, reindeer, etc. and you put the facial features/accessories on them. they came with mask stickers for them, too, which was kind of cute. I got them on the you-know-where site.
We got a big cardboard rocketship for the kids to color/put stickers on and that bought up some time. Make them each claim a side so they don’t fight about decoration.
We got a bucket of parts you stick into play-doh blobs and make creatures. My kids are far apart in age and it was a hit with both. from you know which site.
Jello jigglers cut out with Christmas shaped cutters were a hit and kept everyone happy and busy cutting them out and eating them.
I remember enjoying finding pine cones, putting peanut butter on them, then rolling them in birdseed and hanging them outside for the birds as a kid? Maybe I should do that with mine
Decorating cookies is nice but I find I have to make the cookies and set everything up without child involvement for it to be successful. For the younger end, I ice them and just put out little ramekins of sprinkles. I don’t find it kills as much time as it takes to set up, though.
anon says
No advice on the crafts, but I want to reiterate that I hear you on not enjoying being around your kids right now. I have great kids! They are fun and funny! But the work of parenting has been NONSTOP since the pandemic began, often with not much to show for our efforts and not enough fun to counterbalance the hard parts. We’re tired of coming up with new, fun ways of being in our house. We miss our people. It’s rough.
SC says
For crafts–I’ve had the most luck having my kid paint things. He can do it independently, and it doesn’t matter what it looks like really. Since the pandemic started, he’s painted a wooden car, a bird house, sticks, pine cones, ornaments, a plate and mug for Santa’s milk and cookies, and sun catchers. Picture frames are also a good choice.
Crafts stress me out, so I also suggest non-craft family activities. Watch a holiday movie. Pick a chapter book to read together. Take a drive to see Christmas lights. Do something outdoors. Play a board game or card game. Put together a puzzle (we often have the TV on in the background).
Remember that just because you have more time together, you don’t need to spend the majority of it doing Quality Things. It’s healthy for the kids to play in their room without parents, and for everyone to have unstructured alone time, even if they don’t nap. 20-30 minute increments of Quality Family Time is good.
Anonymous says
Not exactly what you asked for (not crafts), but the things we are really enjoying these days: holiday baking (just kiddo and me) and hiking (kiddo, DH, and me). I’m not crafty, so for stuff like that, I just get a bunch of supplies, set them on the table, and kiddo goes to town.
Dorinda says
May be late in the day, so I’ll try again later, but tips to get through emails after maternity leave? I’m going back to my small litigation firm that is very busy. I’ve been lucky to be able to ignore all emails for 4 months, and am taking two half days to read emails before going back full time the first week in January (on that Wednesday).
Anon says
I’d only look at emails from the last two weeks as well as anything related to what’s on my calendar to be honest – everything else would be old news.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Same – when I came back from my most recent maternity leave, I just marked everything as “read” and met with my boss to go over current projects. I’m not sure what good it will do to read something from a month ago that was (hopefully) already addressed.
EB0220 says
I agree. They’ll email again if it’s still relevant.
Anon says
I have a huge email volume and my post vacation strategy is to sort by subject so I can then read everything related to one issue and then file. Let’s say it is the smith file and the email subject is upcoming hearing. I would sort by subject, read all of the “upcoming hearing” email and then search by “smith” and read the rest of the emails on that matter that did not contain the same subject. Then I would batch move them into the correct folder and move on to the next subject line.
rosie says
Organize by sender/from line was helpful to cull a lot quickly.
Sf says
Back to work in January after five months of maternity leave. Nanny for the baby, preschool for my older son. Preschool just announced they’re extending winter break and everyone needs to get tested, which means I have no care for him my first three days back. My husband and I are both work from home. I expect those days to be incredibly light for me- do I tell my manager about the care issue or just try to slide under the radar?
Anon says
I would definitely not mention it to your boss. Also if the nanny’s working out of your home, couldn’t you ask the nanny if she’d be willing to watch him for some additional compensation?
Eh says
Slide under the radar. Everyone’s had this stuff going on. My office is basically one big don’t ask, don’t tell policy!
AnotherAnon says
Just another vote for slide under the radar.
Anonanonanon says
Saying this as a manager- please jjust slide under the radar. I’d much rather operate on a don’t ask don’t tell policy.
Anonymous says
You have a nanny. She watches him.
Sf says
Nanny is a nanny share and at the other family’s house. And it’s her first day with two infants so I can’t give her my four year old. But won’t tell my manager! Thanks!