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Anonymous says
What are other’s experiences with drinking alcohol in the mid 40’s? I went to a bachelorette party this weekend and I’m still recovering. I have never been a good drinker but seems like recovering gets worse with age. I also don’t really catch a buzz. Wondering if this has happened to others.
Waffles says
I am almost 40, and I’ve never been great at drinking. Lately, though, alcohol seems to destroy my gut microbiome, and cause painful gastritis that lasts for days.
I stopped drinking completely, and I feel so much better and have more energy. Never say never, but I don’t see myself drinking anymore because my body can no longer tolerate it.
Anon says
I have trouble sleeping if I have more than 2 glasses of wine or more than 1 cocktail. I’m 43.
Anon says
I’m early 40s and haven’t really noticed any change in terms of how my body reacts to alcohol, but I’m a very light drinker and will have at most one glass of wine at a party or on vacation to an area known for wine. I haven’t had more than one drink in a sitting since I was in my early 20s.
GCA says
Same. I’ve never been a big drinker anyway and so have seen very little change in either my drinking habits or my body’s response! I have maybe one drink a month, if that.
AwayEmily says
In my twenties/early thirties, I could drink basically anything in moderation and feel okay. Not so much any more.
Beer is still fine — in fact, I feel like I wake up much more refreshed and like I had a good night’s sleep on nights I have a beer before bed (there are diminishing returns, though, so I try to keep it to just one). I love beer and once my kids are out of the toddler phase I’m really looking forward to getting back into beer (the “trying new kinds” aspect, not the “drinking a lot of it in one sitting” aspect).
Wine, though, absolutely KILLS me — even one glass means I sleep horribly and wake up feeling gross. My friend who works in wine tells me this would not be a problem if I drank natural wine, but I don’t like wine enough to risk it.
Anonymous says
I only have about 1 drink a month. Even after 1 drink I’ll feel tired the next day. And this is coming from someone who partied HARD in college but I stopped drinking in excess after the age of 22. Another…substance is fully legal in my state for recreational use and I take an edible (or half an edible) once a week like Friday or Saturday night. I never have a hangover or feel worse after that. I highly recommend it as an alternative :)
FVNC says
Eh, I’m early 40s and don’t notice a huge difference to my early 30s. I drank too much in college and my 20s, and have cut way back from those days. But I’ll occasionally have three drinks over the course of 3+ hours and wake up fine. That said, these days, I generally don’t drink except on weekends and then, typically it’s one glass of wine or a cider.
Anon says
I have to be very careful not to drink when I have pms or my period, because I can trigger a debilitating headache that lasts a full two days just from a single glass of wine.
sober curious says
I read these comments on here all the time and then go to 3 different events this week with people in their 40s and up and everyone was having multiple drinks. one was an actual party but 2 were like networking, professional events. By the 3rd one I stuck to water but was basically alone in that. What am i missing?
Anonymous says
I think if you fall out of “practice” your gut changes to where you can no longer tolerate alcohol as easily. I was a heavy drinker in my 20s and early 30s. I took approximately two years off with twins and I can’t really drink now at 38. I cannot tolerate wine and liquor drinks he too much sugar. But I’m also making my peace with the fact that I’m getting older and I can’t do stuff I used to do…like killing 5 days in a row of HIIT or staying out all night. I’m also prioritizing things like moderate exercise, skincare, and sleep over getting buzzed. I’m not saying any of this judgmentally: I’m on my own journey and curious about where I’ll end up with alcohol. I still enjoy the taste of beer.
Anonymous says
Yup, I think this has a lot to do with it!
Anonymous says
It’s funny, right? I’m 36 and can basically only tolerate 1 drink per event these days. But I think about back when I was a summer associate, and the senior associates and partners in their 30s and beyond were all drinking with us into the night — how did they do it?
sober curious says
yes this is exactly what I’m wondering about. these 3 events had a lot of lawyers.
Cb says
My mum is coming to rescue us – my husband is 2 weeks post-surgery and isn’t 100%, I had a major work trip and deadline, the government almost collapsed so I was doing media all day yesterday, and surprise, my bad cold turned out to be Covid. I tried to put off my mum, but she’s determined. She’s also got my kid’s Willy Wonka costume for a costume birthday party on Saturday. I started feeling a bit rubbish Wednesday PM so hoping 6 days on, I’m out of the contagious period.
anon says
So, honestly- what does it matter if it’s covid or a cold? Like truly what’s the difference in symptoms and contagion?
Anon says
Because the weird thing about Covid is it affects everyone differently. For some people the symptoms are the same as a cold, but for others they are like a terrible flu. My sister was just in bed for three days straight with aches and chills and 102+ fever but barely any “cold symptoms”. And then some people it kills.
Cb says
Yep, that’s what makes me nervous. My third bout is so much worse than the other 2, but just a really bad head cold, no fever. I have lupus so I was quite anxious how it would affect me.
My dad has had it 2x, miserable for a week in both instances, and my mom has never tested positive, so I am hoping she’s one of those super immunity people.
Anon says
My 65 yo, otherwise healthy, fully-vaccinated father had had Covid earlier this year and was hospitalized with Covid induced liver failure. It caused long term liver damage.
Anonymous says
I cannot believe anyone is asking this question. I am fully vaccinated and had Paxlovid, and my case of Covid still lasted 16 days. I was completely incapacitated for the first 9 of those days.
Anonymous says
That’s a wild outlier experience
Anonymous says
No, it really isn’t according to many people I know who have had it in the past year.
Anon says
It really is unusual to be that affected if you’re vaccinated. I know dozens of people who had it in the last year and for most it was allergies or a mild cold, for some it was more like a bad cold or flu. But no one was knocked out for 9 days.
Anon says
Has anyone done carpal tunnel release surgery? I have CT in both hands and will need surgery at some point before it worsens. I have a 1 and 3 year old and solo parent a lot. What is the recovery like and how much help will I need for cooking/cleaning/child snuggling? Should DH take vacation time to help with recovery?
Anon says
I think the recovery time now is really minimal except for lifting restrictions. It is the lifting restrictions that would cause me the most concern with a 1 year old. The 3 year old would most likely be able to get in and out of a car seat, for example, but how would the 1 year old? My 1 year old was still in a crib as well. I would not have been able to get her in or out of the crib for at least 2 weeks after surgery.
Anon says
This is my concern. Both kids still need some help with the car seat and the crib. I guess it will have to wait or maybe when we have more help.
Bette says
Recovery is minimal but does come with lifting restrictions for a while.
I highly recommend sleeping in wrist braces. It helps a lot.
Anon says
Has anyone done NIPT through Natera recently? How long did it take to get the results? I’m hoping to have them in hand before an MFM consultation next Friday and I just got blood drawn yesterday.
Anon says
Did it a couple of weeks ago, and it took a week. The Horizon results came the next day. (My provider told me to anticipate 2-3 weeks.)
anon says
We had them right at the one-week mark even though they said 2-3.
Anon says
Thanks – did you both get any of the expanded testing for microdeletions? We were wondering if that might take more time.
Anon says
mine took almost 2 weeks (March 2024)
octagon says
I just read this essay on big families. As the parent of an only, it all sounds so foreign to have four or more kids! The only families I know either have a SAHM or plenty of money to hire lots of help.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/30/family-size-big-families/
Anon says
Oh i do love the way he framed it as family centric versus parent centric or kid centric. But I have four kids and my oldest had a giant violent meltdown this morning and had to be taken to school late and chipped the paint on her younger sister’s wall which I am super super unhappy about, so maybe I should have waited a couple days to read this. I think four kids is great when all is well. When you have one struggling (she’s getting a full neuropsych eval next week thank goodness!) the model really breaks down.
Momofthree says
I feel this so strongly. I have 3 & have thought about having more but my oldest is struggling & we’ve done the neuropsych, etc.
I just don’t have the capacity to take on another kid when we’ve got the struggles with the ones we have.
Cb says
4! My mom is 9 of 10, and I’m an only child with an only child.
The academic generation above mine tended to have 2 kids (with men occasionally having 3), but my generation is almost all singletons, if they have kids at all. My son’s nursery which drew heavily from the university, media, government had a whole cohort of only boys. We’re now in a pretty socioeconomically mixed area, but only children seem much more common than when I was a kid.
Anonymous says
Only children are definitely more common than when we were kids. I don’t think I met another one until I got to college, if you don’t count kids whose parents split when they were young (and those kids usually had step and/or half siblings). My daughter’s first grade class has 8 only children, only one with divorced parents, plus one twin where the mom admitted to me she would have been one-and-done if she hadn’t gotten two at once. And my daughter has several good friends from aftercare who are only children too. It’s so normal to her and her friends, which I love. The hardest part of being an only child for me was being “weird” for not having siblings.
Anon says
I will have to read it, as I am pregnant with #4! And sometimes I do feel crazy for restarting the clock, but I’ve always in my heart wanted a big family.
anon says
I do feel guilty that I do exercise “control” over the rhythm of my kids days. They are 4 and 6 (almost 5 and 7) and I think it does seem healthier to have a larger family and be unable to manage hour to hour. However, my 4 year old just ran in front of a truck on my suburban street two days ago. Thankfully, the truck was going very slow as he saw a gaggle of 6 kids, but my 4 year old was excited and just completely not paying attention at 5:30 pm. Stuff like this makes me wonder how people are so relaxed with 4 kids, because it’s just so hard being hands on. I want to be more relaxed, but I feel like my kids, particularly my 4 year old cannot be trusted.
My 6 year old in particular has really wanted to be more independent. It’s hard to know what of their preferences are real vs. they just like to complain at the whim i.e. I want to quit all my activities and play daily with my neighbor next door (she also tells me she loves her activities when we go there). Insert [im not tired, not hungry etc] but they fall asleep in 5 mins or scarft their whole meal down or start crying and fighting and I know what they need.
In an ideal world, my kids would just float along and play outside with neighbor kids for hours from when they are home at 3 till bedtime at 730 but I feel like the chaos and lack of structure makes me crabby. My husband talks about playing with neighbors and it being NBD but it was like 3rd grade and up. I’m not sure why it still feels like work managing their days even though they are so much older and not in the really difficult baby/toddler years.
Anonymous says
I think only more relaxed people are willing to have four kids. My in-laws had a lot of kids and based on the stories I just don’t think they cared quite as much about the safety, well-being, or happiness of each individual kid as parents of fewer kids usually do. It was really Darwinian. In contrast, we are one and done because we wanted to be able to devote all our mental and financial resources to the one kid we already had instead of bringing another source of demands and potential chaos into the mix.
Anon says
So we have 4, and it’s not that we don’t care as much about their happiness or well-being. I promise, we love our kids as much as you do. But our view on what it takes to raise happy, healthy kids is likely different than yours – we tend to believe that super intensive parenting isn’t great for children, and that there are a lot of benefits to kids from not carrying the weight of that much parental attention and oversight. Opinions vary on this, obviously, but what may look to you like less concern for the individual child is, at least in our case, an intentional choice to parent differently.
Anon says
This seems 12:12 comment is pretty judgy. Most families I know with one or two kids don’t “super intensively parent” their kids and saying kids have to “carry the weight” of parental attention and oversight seems very judgy, and not inaccurate based on what I’ve seen of the smaller families I know.
Sure, some people are helicopter parents, and I can agree with the point that it’s harder to be a helicopter parent with a big family, but the vast majority of people with one to two kids parent perfectly appropriately.
Anon says
To me it seems the 11:30 comment was judgey! This is a sensitive topic and people have strong and personal feelings. I agree our ideal parenting styles play a role in determining the number of kids we want; like the poster above, I also believe a bit of “benign neglect” is great for kids, and that kids don’t need and shouldn’t have all their parents’ attention and “every opportunity.” I’d rather be poorer in resources but with a bustling home energy.
And in some ways, my family with four kids may be less busy and stressed than families with fewer! Out of desire and necessity we limit extra activities, and place a big value on family time, so we are home and together a lot more than most families I know.
Anon says
@12:21 – I was responding to a comment that suggested parents with a lot of kids don’t care about them as much and you think I’m the one being judgmental?
Anon says
“Benign neglect” means different things to different people – it can mean anything from not being a helicopter parent to putting your kids in physically dangerous situations because you’re not paying attention. I’m not implying anyone here is at the later end of the spectrum, but it can definitely be used to justify things that are objectively unsafe.
Anon says
No, benign means not harmful, therefore allowing your kid to be in danger is actual neglect and not benign at all.
Anon says
+1,000,000 to 12:52. I hate the comments implying that my kids are getting less attention or opportunities because I have 4, or that the only reason I’m enjoying having 4 kids is because I’m neglecting them.
anon says
Thank you anon at 12:12! I refrained from getting into the fray earlier because I was feeling defensive, as I’m about to have #3, and I am totally sure some of our friends are judgy about our parenting – but we also have a different parenting philosophy than them. We don’t believe that our job is to give our kids every opportunity and advantage possible. I know my kids and am comfortable with letting them take risks others aren’t comfortable with — I’m not being neglectful. And I don’t overschedule activities, especially for one of my kids that really needs home time. But I’m sure to some looking at us from afar think “why would they have another, they already don’t bother doing activities 3x/week for the kids they do have!”
Anonymous says
I have 3 and disagree with this; I think parents of 3-4 have a healthy understanding of what they are getting into and sort of embrace the chaos. Do all 4 kids get to do their top 4 activities? Nope.
In fact, friends of ours that have kids ages 2,4,6,8 just got a puppy. I asked her what she was thinking and she said it was not even a drop in the chaos bucket.
Anonymous says
I mean this kind of proves 11:30’s point. You are more relaxed and your friend with 4 kids and a puppy is even more relaxed.
anon says
I’m a mom of 2 kids that would like to exercise more benign neglect of my 4 and 6 year old. However, my 4 year old in particular is very impulsive and I truly worry for his safety. He’s very loud and rambunctious and I’m just not sure how to be more hands off with him, because it feels like he needs a lot of “correcting”.. He’s not that unusual in any way but he’s just “extra” in a lot of ways. Does anyone with a big family have this type of kid and how do you deal?
Anon says
12:44, I have four and the oldest three are boys, with all the energy and danger that goes along with it. My middle one was just diagnosed as 2e, including ADHD, so we have our struggles. The biggest takeaway I have is that most things are a stage, and maturity and time can change everything. I’ve also found that my kids rotate through being the “squeaky wheel” and so I devote more resources to one in a season, but it all evens out and comes back around. Even having that perspective has helped me have the confidence that I can handle whatever comes, and deal with it more calmly than I did when I just had one or two kids.
I’m not sure the specifics of your situation, but definitely try to make the environment as safe as possible, and have at least one “yes space” where he can safely be on his own. Perhaps his periods of complete independence need to start small (you go do something for 5-10 minutes and then check on him), but as he grows they should be able to lengthen. And at 4 maybe the “benign neglect” simply means not playing with him for an afternoon and trusting/affirming to him that you know he can figure out something to do, even if you are present for supervision. Or you let him get his own water when he’s thirsty, small things like that. I think of the term more as the opposite of meeting our child’s every whim and request or being their entertainer.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Hmm, maybe my husband’s parents should’ve had a fourth kid, then they wouldn’t have divorced?! Kidding, sort of, but there has definitely been a trend to move away from the larger families to one or two kids max. Is the author saying that his older kids take on the parent role for the younger kids? That’s not… great. But maybe I’m biased as an only child (who BTW was raised in a very independent minded way) with two kids, for whom I would like to provide all the opportunities.
Anonymous says
I’m the oldest of four; my dad is the oldest of nine! We were both “mini parents” to our siblings. My dad, out of necessity. For me, a lot of it is just my personality. I will say it took me a long time to want to have kids, because I spent my childhood looking after kids. I don’t feel like “oh poor me” but it was certainly a factor. We have three and joke that we could “throw another one on the pile” but in reality, DH and I both came from “big” families and are trying to avoid the chaos and mild neglect we both experienced. So we’re an inconvenient family of 5.
Anonymous says
I’m the same! Eldest daughter of 4 kids and for a long time I always joked that my youngest had just graduated college and so I was done taking care of kids (my mother did not find this one funny, but my youngest sister always laughed, so I knew I was on to something).
I also took a long time to come around on kids of my own. Even with 4 kids, I don’t think that there was any neglect really, benign or otherwise, but parenting was different “back then”. My parents were a lot more involved and hands-on than a lot of my friends’ parents, so I think we are also looking at some different parenting trends as well. Having four kids and aligning with some of the more involved and intense aspects of parenting culture likely doesn’t match, but a family with 4 kids can certainly manage extracurricular activities for all 4.
Anon says
My MIL is one of 6 with a ~25 year age range so the oldest ones were mini-parents to the younger ones. She and her siblings hated their childhood and every single one of them had at most two kids.
Anonymous says
The author of the article claims that the older kids’ parenting the younger ones is a feature, not a bug. Very Duggar.
anon says
My oldest parents my younger ones a bit (she’s 9) but she also wants to grow up to be a kindergarten teacher so it’s very much something she likes and she kind of taps in and out when she wants to. I’d just say having an older kid play with a younger kid can be very helpful and sweet. I haven’t played pretend kitchen in years and I like it that way!
Anon says
I grew up as 1 of 4 and that’s all over idealized nonsense. Parents should have the number of kids they want and can support. My parents didn’t have the financial or emotional resources to manage 4 kids so my memories of childhood are all of financial stress, my mom’s emotional volatility as a SAHP of 4 while my dad was always away at work, and intense sibling rivalry.
I now have 2 kids and don’t micromanage because I have a job and other interests. I don’t need more kids to make me parent appropriately.
Anon says
Agreed with your second paragraph. I’m an only child and people always seem shocked when I say my mom didn’t smother me, but my mom had a big career that she was very passionate about and just didn’t have the time needed to micromanage me. I think I probably would have felt smothered if she’d been a SAHM (I’m not trying to imply all SAHMs smother, just that my own mom is the type of person that would have if she hadn’t had a career to channel her energy into), but with her focus on career there was no concern about that.
AwayEmily says
This is extremely well put.
Anon says
I agree with your second paragraph so much. I do have 4 kids, and being totally honest bc this is an anon forum and I honestly get sick of hearing how hard it must be (this comment is directed into the void, not people posting on this forum), I’m great at it, and we have a really happy family with four really bonded, thriving kids. But also absolutely think that the more kids you have, the harder it is to “hide” or manage if the set-up doesn’t end up being your jam.
Anonymous says
Yes, yes, yes agree. I have one kid and I don’t micromanage because I have lots of other stuff going on. I love the dynamic of my one-kid family, and I think it’s actually what enables my husband and I to be really chilled out day to day; we aren’t people who thrive on large doses of the more chaotic fun we see in the homes of our friends and relatives with larger families, even though we really enjoy it when we visit them. I think that people should have the number of kids that they want and can manage because I think that pursuing happiness and a sense of tranquility in general is a good thing!
Anonymous says
I can’t read the article because of the paywall, but I saw that the headline posits that the ideal family size is >= 4 kids. My MIL had four and always says that four was the tipping point from regular family to large family. After she had the fourth she felt like she couldn’t take the whole family over to people’s houses, etc. because they just took up too much space.
Anecdotally everyone I know who has more than two kids seems to be quite wealthy and to have all girls or older girls + youngest boy. In most cases they have explicitly admitted that they were trying for a boy. I do have one aunt who did the opposite–kept trying for a girl and finally got her after three boys.
Anon says
I know someone who has five and did gender selection IVF for #5 to get a girl after 4 boys. I do think for a lot of people there’s an element of wanting both genders but hopefully it’s moving away from the sexist “must have a boy” mentality.
The families of 4 I know got both genders within the first 3 kids, so the fourth was either an oops or wanted regardless of gender.
Anon says
Yeah, we have four and got both genders within the first two. So there was no element of gender selection in our decision.
Anon says
Same.
Spirograph says
I only have 3, but my first two covered off both genders, thank goodness. I always wanted three (or four, but couldn’t talk my husband into it), but since my family-of-origin was girl, girl, boy, I knew how many, “har har, you kept going until you got a ____” comments would come our way if the first two were the same…and how much that grates on the middle child.
Anon says
I also can’t read it, but as a parent of 4, I feel like it’s silly to posit that there’s a universally ideal family size. 4 is great for us (although not without its challenges!), but we also have a high tolerance for chaos (we have two dogs and a cat in addition to the kids) and the money to outsource massively (full-time nanny, twice weekly housekeeper, lawn service, etc). It’s really entirely dependent on what you can handle, financially and emotionally, what kind of support you have, etc.
Anone says
I had a friend in a high powered job in an east coast city tell me that they only have time to lay with their kid for 15 minutes on weekdays at bedtime. however. they are debating a third but said that they could never do it if they actually had to spend hours with their kids daily. I truly do not understand why people want to have so many kids if you don’t enjoy actually raising them?
Spirograph says
Ooof, I don’t love this comment. Enjoying raising your kids and enjoying spending hours on end with them in the hustle and bustle of every day life are two very different things, and the way you’ve phrased this comes across very judgy. My mom quit her career after I was born in part because her dad said something like this to her when she mentioned going back to work. That was 40 years ago, and “I don’t know why you even had a baby if you don’t want to raise it” has stuck with her. She was a great SAHM, but I think she (and my parents marriage!) would have been happier and more fulfilled if she hadn’t given up her entire adult identity for a decade+. Your way of running a family is not the only way.
Ever since my kids were infants, I’ve been saying that I’d be a great SAHM to elementary schoolers, but all day every day with littles would do me in. I still love my kids and enjoy raising them in a big-picture sense.
anon says
I don’t think the comment is judgy. I feel sorry for a child whose parent spends 15 minutes a day with them. That way of running a family is not a good way.
Anon says
I agree with the 12:23 poster. Saying parents should want to spend more than 15 minutes a day with their kids is not remotely equivalent to saying women need to quit their jobs to stay home. I also would have been a terrible SAHM to babies and toddlers, so I obviously don’t think not wanting to be home with little kids makes you a bad person. But if someone told me they currently only have 15 minutes a day with their kids and want more kids, I would for sure be questioning their judgment.
Lily says
No one is saying that parents should stay at home/not work outside the home. The point is that if all you have left at the end of the day is 15 minutes to spend with your kids (and we’re not talking about someone who is struggling financially and therefore has no choice but to work 24/7) why would you add another kid to the mix? Kids deserve to be our #1 priority. Why have kids if you dread spending time with them?
OP says
agree or you have another great love in your life I.e. your career or a meaningful hobby or interest etc. I agree that it’s not ALL your time or nothing with kids but there is some element of quantity required to have quality and the more kids you have, the more quantity you need to make sure each kid gets that quality time.
Spirograph says
There were lots of days when my kids were little and went to bed early that I didn’t get more than 15 min with them at the end of the weekday (and some days that I got home after they went to bed. I didn’t *like* it, but it happened).
At the time, I rationalized that at least I had the weekends, but I’ll go crawl back in my terrible-parent hole now.
Anon says
Huh? I’m sorry about your mom but this story has nothing to do with the comment you’re responding to. No one is suggesting that women need to quit their jobs and stay home. But bragging about how you never spend time with your kids and want more is not a good look, sorry.
Anon says
My DH usually gets home in time from his job (BigLaw) to help me tuck in and say good night to the kids (~15-20 minutes), so I guess he’s a terrible parent, cool.
Anonymous says
speaking from experience, even without a big law job, if you have to work on site til 5 in a big coastal city, your commute can easily eat up a bunch of potential family time in the evening. combine with an early toddler bedtime, and there it is. I don’t see anywhere in the OP’s story that her friend is bragging or even happy about 15 minutes a night. I’ve probably mentioned to a friend or two at some point both that I only get a tiny bit of time with my baby on weeknights and that I want another one, and I hope they gave me a little grace.
Anon says
Isn’t this life in any major city? I live in one of the biggest cities in the U.S. (not East or West coast *SHOCK*), and on office days, I leave my workplace, which is <10 miles away, at 4:15. By the time I get back to my general area, pick up both kids (2 different pick-ups, each 1 mile away from our house but in diff directions), it's 5:30-45 when we walk in the door. I've only lived in big cities and even pre-kids had commutes (both public transit and driving), so this is all I know.
Spirograph says
Interesting. I have 3, which is probably the worst number: not enough to be a “big family” but too big to be convenient in a world made for families of 4.
I like the “family centric” idea. I have realized that we need to do a lot better job actually enforcing responsibility for chores rather than (me) just taking care of stuff because I want it done right now and it’s more effort to badger the kids than to just do it myself.
At the same time, the idea that all the kids just idyllically play together and support each other is… not my experience at the moment the moment. There have been phases when everyone pretty much gets along and they’re convenient playmates, but right now they’re much more into friends; they’re often downright jerks to each other and refereeing is exhausting. Fortunately, we have tons of kids nearby and live in a neighborhood where I’m comfortable letting my kids bike alone, which is almost as convenient as siblings.
Anon says
Does anyone have a gift link?
Anonymous says
here you go! https://wapo.st/44iZx1N
GCA says
Thanks!
1. Hmm, I don’t see much reference to his wife having HER own identity outside of being a parent, which gives me pause. My MIL was a SAHM for about 20 years while raising six kids. She might have been in a similar position, and she would have said that it was her choice rather than a sacrifice. But this is absolutely one of those ‘good for you, not for me, and definitely don’t prescribe it for everyone’ situations.
2. The idyllic picture he paints a) isn’t the whole picture. My husband (3rd of 6 kids) would say the positive parts of this article are true, but all the difficult stuff is also unwritten. Did the older kids babysit the younger ones? Sure! Did they also occasionally bully them? Absolutely! And b) the rose-tinted view falls apart very quickly once challenges arise. An illness, special needs, kids who don’t fit the mold of what the parents expect, challenging sibling dynamics – you name it. Fortunately DH and his siblings didn’t experience severe challenges and they’re all wonderful people, but that’s six teens with developmentally normal rocky patches.
3. Logically, there is no reason a smaller household cannot be family-centric rather than parent-centric or child-centric. I have two kids and I think we have a decent balance (caveat: mine are both in early elementary school which is a bit of a sweet spot).
4. There are many people, in many places across the country, who already have kids but, let’s say, less stability and means than the average WaPo reader – and their situation is not child-centric, not parent-centric, not-family-centric, but survival-centric. And yet the AEI opposes large-scale childcare subsidies.
Vicky Austin says
This is a great analysis, thanks. I was thinking that too – like if a woman wrote this article, I would probably have a different opinion about it.
Boston Legal Eagle says
“And yet the AEI opposes large-scale childcare subsidies.” – to say the quiet part out loud, they’re looking to promote more white families with lots of kids.
Anonymous says
I have 3 and could have 1-2 more adult if they were like my easy kids. If they were like my tough kid…idk, maybe I’ve seen it all by now. We are happy and done but a 4th kid in our house would do just fine. We are family centric, and also have sisters the divide-and-conquer. Our older one can stay home alone with one of the others, everyone is out of diapers. It’s a lot but it’s fun.
anon says
My brother has 4. Two older ones (10 & 12) from his wife’s previous marriage, and then they had 2 under 2. We have a 1 and done. They have pretty laissez fair parenting with the younger two. Part of that is because the older two can help out. Part of it is parenting style. Part of it is just trying to wrangle everyone makes it hard to be super hands on with each kid.
There’s no way I could handle having 4 kids. I don’t think my marriage would survive a second tbh. One shortcoming is that my husband and I do serve as our 3.5 yo primary playmate which can be exhausting after work. I’m sure he will grow out of it as we get him engaged in more organized sports, etc.
Anonymous says
I agree with a lot of this article in theory. But in practice, I started having kids in my mid-30s and suffered three miscarriages. After two successful pregnancies, I’m 40 and I’m done. You can’t really have a big family if you don’t start early (or early-ish). He assumes people are making a deliberate choice, when that’s not always the case.
Anon says
So true.
Anon says
I grew up as one of four siblings. My older siblings were ruthless to me with constant bullying. I have a tendency toward self-doubt and perfectionism and am on the quieter side, and I wonder if I would have had more confidence if I grew up in a smaller family without so many siblings. Now that I’m a parent, I tend to believe my parents didn’t stop the bullying because they thought it was normal, it would give me a thick skin, and because they were too tired to get involved. I think big families can be beautiful and should be celebrated but there is also a dark side, a level of chaos and fighting.
Anon says
FWIW, I was terribly bullied by my sibling and there were only two of us. I feel like my parents were like yours in assuming this was somehow normal/good for me, which just utterly sucked.
Anonymous says
I had a sibling who was not exactly a bully but was the favorite and it contributed to the absolute h311 that was my childhood. Siblings are overrated.
Anon says
My parents also had 4 and allowed a ton of bullying between siblings. I think my parents were so overwhelmed they just decided not to engage and decided to let us “sort it out” even if that was via physical intimidation and abuse. It was very Lord of the Flies in our house.
Anon says
Yes, exactly. Me too.
Anon says
I think “family centric” is one of those things that’s nice in theory but in practice doesn’t work for a lot of kids. One of my kid’s has a former BFF who’s one of 4 close in age and the family doesn’t do activities, play dates, community events, etc. because “the kids have each other.” The parents are homebodies who love their life, but it seems hard for the kids, particularly the kid I know the best (who’s also the only girl) who appears to really resent not being able to form strong relationships with peers and have a “normal” childhood. And that’s to say nothing of rarer situations like sibling ab*se, etc.
Anonymous says
Exactly. Having a large family may be what some parents prefer and may not be the worst thing for some kids, but it really requires that individual needs and preferences be subverted to serve the collective. A kid with a more independent, individualistic, or intense personality will really chafe at this expectation. And in practice it often seems that the girls are required to give up more for the sake of “the family” or “family time” than the boys (see, e.g., the frequent discussions here about younger sisters’ being dragged along to older brothers’ baseball tournaments).
Anon says
I don’t disagree with your points, and taken to extremes they are certainly damaging. But to your first point, isn’t that how a society works best? Putting aside your own needs to a degree for the good of the collective? We chafe against capitalism and the individualist society we’ve become, because this setup is all about looking out for yourself and climbing to the top. We yearn for societies that provide more public resources, like childcare, but that requires people to give up a lot of control and autonomy to benefit others.
Obviously child need to be given space to flourish and grow as individuals, but I think the overarching idea of making decisions that benefit the family as a whole is a way to develop empathic and service-minded citizens.
Anon says
Yeah, I’m one of the moms of 4 posting in this thread, and we definitely have kids who are spirited, independent, etc. But we come from a starting point that individual self-actualization is not the highest good – we are very focused on raising kids who are oriented to community, mutual obligation, and maximizing the good of the whole, not the individual. That does mean that, for example, none of our kids do travel sports. We also don’t do any extracurriculars that would conflict with Sunday Eucharist (we’re Episcopalians), and we have one designated family dinner night a week that we don’t allow kid activities to override. A lot of my friends’ lives are basically scheduled around select soccer it travel hockey, but you can’t do that with four kids (and frankly, we weren’t willing to do that when we had fewer kids – we have a decent age gap so our two oldest were in elementary when the youngest two were born).
I recognize that our approach to life, which is in many respects premised on rejecting the college application arms race and the often high-anxiety approach to parenting I see in my friends, is atypical for this board and for wealthy educated families in general, but it’s where we are.
Anon says
I actually think independent kids really thrive in a family with more kids! They have the opportunity to operate independently and get more responsibility earlier on. We have four and my kids are all very independent. It’s one of the best things about a big family (there are many bad things) I disagree on the gender thing too. I do think younger kids get dragged to older kids stuff, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing that my younger kids can sit through a full ballet performance or get more opportunities to interact with adults on sidelines and such. I think four kids is great for kids. I think it’s tough on parents (I commented this elsewhere too)
Anon says
I really think it’s just personality and parenting philosophy, not family size. I have an incredibly independent only child and know lots of others, but I also know plenty of independent kids from bigger families, and plenty of kids from both big and small families who aren’t as interested in independence.
Anon says
That’s a good point. My husband is the youngest of 5 and he was made to sit through every dance recital under the son for his three sisters. He was very much dragged along through childhood and nothing was ever about him (his parents even made him skip all his sports on Sundays for “family dinner”). But still, he is thankful for all his siblings and wouldn’t trade them in for more attention.
We have four and are taking the learnings from both of our childhoods as we balance the needs of the individuals and the family.
Anon says
I’m surprised you think kids in big families “operate independently and get more responsibility earlier on.” Most people are comfortable giving a child responsibility before they’d give the same age child the responsibility with the added element of care for a younger sibling. My only child got to do all the independent milestones like staying home alone earlier than all her friends with younger siblings for that reason.
Anon says
@2:07, I let my 8yo stay home but I take the siblings with me. And I let my 6yo ride his bike a half mile down the street and back (no sidewalks) because his 8yo brother is with him. My 8yo also makes himself eggs and ravioli and all sorts of things because I don’t have the time to make him snacks every time he’s hungry. And right now my 3yo is playing in the yard by himself! So I do think kids in bigger families get chances at independence early, often out of necessity/convenience
Anon says
Other than the 6 year old getting to ride the bike with his older sibling (and fwiw, my only child was allowed to bike alone at that age), I don’t get what any of this has to do with # of siblings? This idea that kids get more independence because parents don’t have enough time is weird to me, and just does not track with my experience with smaller families (my own and many friends/acquaintances). Parents with one or two kids still have our own lives and hobbies and don’t want to wait on our kids hand and foot! And even aside from our own self-interest, we want our kids to be independent and have life skills. It is totally normal for preschoolers to play outside alone and for elementary schoolers to learn how to prep simple meals. These are not things that only happen in giant families.
Anon says
In this case, it’s not a gender double-standard. The kids are all treated the same, but I think the fact that she’s the only girl and the boys have each other to play with has made things hard for her. And she’s just a more extroverted person than her parents and maybe her siblings (I don’t know the boys that well). Some kids just want a more of a life outside the home than other kids. We choose our friends, we don’t get to choose our family and although most people love their family members, that’s not always who you want to spend the most time with.
Anonymous says
This guy sounds like he might be involved with Quiverfull. It’s actually pretty chilling when you think about what he is really saying. Individual identity should be subsumed for the sake of the family unit. Kids acting as parents counter to their own interests.
“[T]he ‘you’ who makes Sunday morning breakfast, assembles Ikea furniture and walks the first-grader to school is our older kids. The best way to make parenting and childhood happier and less stressful is to have more kids, not fewer of them.”
“Smaller households, where the parents adhere to the quality-over-quantity mind-set, tend to become child-centric. In the best circumstances, this teaches the children to focus all their energies on self-improvement to maximize individual success.
The best large-family model is neither child-centric nor parent-centric but family-centric. Everyone has roles to play in pursuit of a common good. Children in this model … aren’t crafting their life scripts on a blank page: They’re establishing their identities in relation to their parents, siblings and cousins.”
“In a large family, parents foster a family culture, and that culture — perpetuated by everyone in the family — does the work day in and day out.”
Anonymous says
The author is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a right-wing think tank.
Anon says
Bingo. I can’t believe there weren’t more responses commenting on this. As soon as I saw AEI my eyebrows went up.
Big families can be great but I do not want to parentify older kids. If they want to make everyone breakfast, fine, but that shouldn’t be their role. I thought that part of his essay was SO weird.
Anon says
Yeah. Not all big families are like this, but the parentifying of older children he describes is incredibly damaging to kids. It also tends to be very gendered, with oldest girls being pushed into the parent role much sooner and with more responsibility than older boys, from what I’ve seen.
I do think some degree of putting the family above self-interest is good. I only have one child, but we do a lot of “we’re team [family] and we have to help the family first” in situations like doing chores before play or taking turns choosing what we do on vacations. I mean, if kids only think about themselves they would be incredibly self-centered. But it seems like this guy takes it way, way too far and doesn’t let his kids have identities separate from the family.
Anonymous says
My only child has learned to make breakfast, assemble Ikea furniture, and get herself to school without needing younger siblings to parent.
We are a “team Us” family, but each member also has their own identity and interests separate from the family.
Anon says
I have four (9, 7, 4, and 2) and we get complimented all the time on how independent they are and how well they are able to play without our involvement. I do think that is something that happens with bigger families. And their ability to go with the flow is amazing. But there are tradeoffs. I think you have four kids for the kids’ sake not the parents. Having three siblings is pretty fun and I love watching them interact and play and the different relationships between them. Parenting four is a lot.
Anon says
Most kids I know play well with siblings without much parent involvement. I don’t think that’s just a big family thing.
Anon says
I mean, there’s tons of posts here about people not knowing what to do with their kids all weekend and having to keep them entertained. I think it’s again parenting style that helps determine how well your kids play independently (including with one another). Generally, a more hands-off approach to child entertainment leads to better play. And more siblings means more playmates to click with
Anon says
I mean, sure, some sibling sets play better together than others and some kids are better at independent play than others. But I really think you’re ascribing a family size cause for it where none exists. I know tons of only children who play really well alone, and tons of kids with only one sibling who play really well with their sibling. And some big families where the kids don’t get along at all. It’s great that your kids get along and entertain themselves well without your involvement, but I really don’t think it’s a family size thing.
Someone posting for advice about what to do on weekends doesn’t mean their kids don’t play together well. And I think most of those comments come from people with babies and toddlers who by necessity need more parental involvement. I really can’t recall a single post here saying “Help my two school age kids don’t play together at all!”
anon says
If you have four though, if one kid decides they want to read instead of play, that kid goes and finds another sibling to play with. Or if the oldest want to do something better for older kids, they go do that and the younger two play together and it’s all good. Or if they do hide and seek they have enough kids for a solid game. Same with board games. There’s total downsides to four – we’re struggling in other ways right now – but I’ve had two kids (they played great together!) Now I have four. It’s different/special. When they have friends over, the friends are always confused the first time because they expect to be coming over to play with friend that age but then end up playing with all my kids.
Anon says
I wouldn’t see it as a good thing that their siblings are always around when they have a play date. I have a friend from a big family who resents that friends were never really “hers” because her siblings were always included. She got along fine with her siblings for the most part, it wasn’t a case of a sibling bullying her or anything like that. It was just hard to not have things that were hers alone. I think that’s not an uncommon feeling. The moms I most admire with large families spend plenty of time as a family but also work hard to ensure their kids get one-on-one time with close friends.
Anonymous says
I am fairly confident I’m not designed to have more than one child. I also feel like I hit the lottery with my one kid, and don’t want to tempt fate. But my question is – how do people who don’t make big bucks afford all of these kids? And I’m not talking about daycare costs…. My questions are – Do they not save for retirement? Did they never have student loans? Are they just not planning on saving at all for any child’s college or any future education costs? Do you never go out to dinner or on vacation? How do you keep a decent emergency fund?
Anon says
In the US overall, more kids is correlated with less wealth and education. In my area the really big families (4+ kids) are mostly religious with SAHMs and a dad who earns a decent living but isn’t super rich. Land is super cheap here so you can get a big house for not that much more money than a small house. They road trip for vacations, do church summer camp and I doubt they’re saving much if anything for college. If you don’t have college and daycare costs, more kids doesn’t add that much to the bottom line. I know it’s more mouths to feed and whatnot, but childcare and higher education costs are the big ticket per kid items.
In educated, affluent circles (particularly in VHCOL areas like NYC and Bay Area) the third and fourth kid is definitely a status symbol that you have mega wealth, not just white collar upper middle class wealth, and so the trends kind of go the opposite way with the wealthiest people often having more kids.
Anon says
Yeah, the people I know with big families are religious, often Catholic. The wives do not work. Their lives revolve around their children.
Anon says
Mega wealth + big family = Laura Vanderkam from Best of Both Worlds.
Anonymous says
We are one and done for the same reason–hit the jackpot, don’t want to tempt fate. And I have the same question about how you afford more than one kid if you make less than $250-300K in a LCOL area and/or have student loans. Groceries alone for our family of three are well over $1,200 a month. I can’t even imagine what it would cost to feed multiple teen boys.
Anon says
They grow their own food. I’m kidding, sort of, but farming and gardening are both big among the religious home schooling communities where I live.
Anon says
It is insane to say you need to make $250K in a LCOL area in order to afford two kids. Yes there are tradeoffs, but you are not going without necessities, or many wants, with an income of that and a family of 3-4. Lifestyle creep over the last generation is crazy to see…
Anon says
I assumed it was a typo and she meant HCOL area. I would agree in a LCOL you can be extremely comfortable with two or three kids on a <$250k income. In a HCOL area, you can easily live day-to-day on that income, but retirement and college savings will be a struggle, particularly with more kids.
Anonymous says
That’s around what we make in a LCOL/MCOL and we have a crummy old house that is falling apart that we can’t afford to renovate, falling-apart furniture from grad school, one car with 100K miles, and another with 200K miles. We are maxing two retirement accounts and an HSA and paying into LTC insurance and are still concerned that we won’t have enough for retirement. No non-mortgage debt since we paid off student loans. We can afford to send our only child to Flagship State U (currently > $40K/year) or a lower-tier private school that gives merit aid if the cost is similar. If we wanted another kid both would have to go to Absolutely Terrible Cheapo State U Where No One Should Ever Go or take out loans, which we are not willing to do to any child of ours.
Anon says
Could be a typo. But I also think that is a bold (and incorrect) assertion. I live in a VHCOL area with less income and more kids. We aren’t maxing out anything but we are saving solid amounts, and we have everything we need. We have to curb our list of wants, but that’s a far cry from saying you “can’t afford it.”
Anon says
There is probably a big range of what people consider LCOL vs MCOL vs HCOL but it’s surprising to me that you feel so behind in a LCOL/MCOL area on nearly $300k with one kid. We live in a LCOL area on ~$180k and feel very rich with only one kid. We have a nice home in a great school district, take multiple international trips every year, save very well for retirement and our kid’s activities and experiences are limited by time and logistics not money. If we had a second kid we would have to cut back on the vacation spending (especially during the daycare years) but we would still have a very comfortable life. College would be the hardest thing to afford with more than one kid, and we could probably not afford to send two kids to private universities without a huge hit to our lifestyle, but we could easily send two kids to our flagship in-state.
Anon says
I’ve commented a couple other places but I think money is the big elephant in the room. We have four. They get along great. Three of the four would say they love being one of four and the fourth would say it’s annoying because he’s a boy with three sisters but honestly he loves them too. Both DH and I work full time. What makes it work is that we have a full time nanny, housekeeping, lawn service, etc. And the money to throw at activities for four too. Having four kids is expensive!
Anon says
I’ll chime in from a different POV. We live outside of NYC and have four. I am a SAHM, so we don’t have childcare costs, but we also don’t have my earnings. HHI is about $180K right now, which is a lot but can be tight in this area, though there is potential/expectation that it continue to increase.
We outsource absolutely nothing. We get takeout food maybe four times a year. My kids don’t go to “school” until age 4 (but they all thrive from that point on). We don’t max out any savings vehicle, but we do save 15% for retirement including match (and have since graduating college) and put a small lump sum in each 529 each year. The biggest budget buster is perhaps kids activities, but it’s also kind of self-limiting in that we have four kids! Each can do 1-2 activities per season and that is plenty. My kids need a good amount of downtime mixed in for their own mental well-being, so I don’t think doing more would be ideal, either. Our vacations are driving distance and usually a house on the beach with family.
Maybe that sounds like drudgery. But it IS possible to have a “big” family without the Big Law salaries, and I think we trick ourselves into believing you must have/do/be all these things or else it simply can’t be done. We are very happy and wouldn’t change a thing. Down the road I know we’ll have college loans, and I also expect to go back to work in some capacity to fill in savings gaps. But I will do all my own housework and we’ll cook all our meals if it means having all my kids. ( I realize being a SAHM gives me the time to do these things! But again, it’s a choice available to most people on this board and we made a financial tradeoff to do it for this season of life.)
Anon says
Side note: I also cook all the meals and do all the housework in addition to working full time. It’s not like every mom who works outside the home outsources everything.
Anon says
Agreed, that felt tone deaf to me. I don’t do meals or cleaning (we outsource cleaning and my husband is the primary cook, we also get a lot of Door Dash) and happily stopped at one kid for reasons that were mostly unrelated to finances, but most working moms can’t afford to outsource everything so the “just stay at home and don’t order takeout and then you too can afford a million kids” is pretty out of touch.
Anon says
Ok, sorry it came off like that. But I was replying to a comment that said the way they make it work is to outsource the grunt work and make enough money for activities. I’m offering the flip that there are other ways to make it work, *if you want* four kids. Money is an important consideration, but not an insurmountable obstacle
Seafinch says
I have five kids and work full time (just back off my last mat leave this Spring) and we don’t out source anything (except childcare while I am at work). Our kids are 13-1 and the oldest is a competitive athlete which eats up time and money but otherwise, we have a pretty chilled out lifestyle. I would agree that it’s not that hard (although our age spread poses certain challenges).
Vicky Austin says
Ranting into the void: I am so tired of my mother giving me baby sleep advice that is silly/outdated/something I told her I don’t want to do. I have repeatedly told her I don’t care if/when my son sleeps through the night. Why does she care so damn much? It’s not like she’s getting up with him.
That is all, carry on.
anon says
My mom does this. Fixates on something and then intensely wants to fix it, even though her advice and proposed fixes are either wickedly outdated or just plain horrible ideas. All advice is fully unsolicited from me. I’m close with my mom but I straight yelled at her this morning when she called me at 7:30 – that’s peak get kids out / get in the car and drive to work time in my house (which she knows) and I assumed someone was dead if she was calling me at that hour. Turns out she wanted to offer me advice on something I explicitly said I did not need her input on after she attempted to counsel me on it over the weekend. I don’t know about you, but I think retirement is hitting my parents hard, and not in a good way, and she’s grasping for relevance (read: attention) in other places than in her own low-key dysfunctional relationship with my dad. You have my sympathies.
Vicky Austin says
Are you my sister?! (Or maybe my cousin?!) Thank you so much for this. I feel very seen.
anon says
………Kate?
Vicky Austin says
Alas no, but solidarity!
Bean74 says
Are we all sisters? I could have written this all the way down to having a mom grasping for relevance outside of dysfunctional relationship.
My sympathies, as well.
Anon says
Oof, if I had a dollar for every time my MIL said “oh just skip the nap so she’ll be tired for bedtime”, I would be a rich woman. Commiseration.
Anonymous says
I get it!!! Our almost 5yo still gets up about 1-2x a week to come in our bed. I don’t really care and I usually just get up to go sleep in his bed. Like just not an issue for me and DH but my MIL asks about it every time we see her. Like why do you care??
Anonymous says
But are you SURE you’re not supposed to put him to sleep on his tummy? – literal quote from my mom circa 2017
Anon says
“You survived having a cuddle blanket in the crib with you!”
Paging CB** says
CB (or anyone else),
Debating a portugal (algarve) vs. scotland trip for our family next summer. We’d like to stay for a month. Ideally, my kids would be able to do some sort of (english speaking) summer camp for half days (they will be 6 and 8) for 2 or so weeks. What do you recommend?? I’m looking for walkable/metro towns i.e. not the car dependent suburban town we live in America, playgrounds/family friendly activities with hiking, beaches, or other natural beauty. Would love any thoughts you have!
Anon says
Not Cb, but we loved the Algarve when we visited for a week last year. It is pretty spread out though, and I think it would be hard to get around without a car. You might be able to manage without a car if you stay in Albufeira, but that wouldn’t be my top choice for where to stay otherwise.
For English speaking camps, someone (maybe Cb!) told me to look at international schools and it looks like there are a few.
Cb says
Haha, do you want to do a home exchange and take our house in East Lothian? I’m hoping to be away for most of the summer – Amsterdam and Portugal.
But in all seriousness, I’d probably go Portugal. Edinburgh during the summer is crazy prices with the festival and camp options aren’t quite as good as I’d hoped. We had a great camp in Lisbon last summer, but I’m not sure about the Algarve. Check the English language private schools for camp.
Pop a burner email up and I’ll drop you a note and I can share my lists.
Op says
ha trying to figure out how to easily get a Burner email but I’ll be back to you tomorrow!
Op says
okay let’s try this, please email me and I’ll email you from my real email ha.
[email protected]
Op says
if you’re still reading cb, today’s burner is
[email protected]
Anonymous says
If you witnessed other kids on your kid’s sport team repeatedly making negative comments about your kid (eg pointing out every time your kid missed a throw, saying your kid isn’t a good batter, etc) would you say something to the coaches about it? 4th graders.
Spirograph says
Absolutely, the coach should be shutting that down.
DLC says
What does your child want to be done about it? What is your end goal?
This happened to my 12 year old who plays on a co-ed basketball pick up league. We asked the coach about it – not because we thought the coach would stop the comments, but to get a sense of perspective on why it would be happening and how our child could be a stronger player and how she could deal with it in the context of that group situation. This maybe an unpopular opinion, but I do think my kid needs to learn to live with craptastic people in her life- and I mean in mentally healthy ways- whether it’s by standing up for herself, saying something to them herself, or ignoring them and focussing on her own skills, or finding her own tribe, or…. Something she figures out for herself. I try to be available and supportive, but this isn’t something where I would try to change the behavior of the other kid.
Anonymous says
If you don’t like the culture I would look for another team or club. IME there is no upside to talking with the coach. They already know what is going on and have chosen not to do anything about it.
anon says
Coaches, like teachers, can’t be omnipresent and hear everything.
And are these comments even in the kid’s earshot?
To me, this sort of attitude is so unhelpful and gives no one a chance to address/learn/grow, which is part of why I hope my kids participate in sports at that age.
OP says
Yes, they are within the kids earshot and in most cases said directly to the kid’s face. And this is a rec league, not some sort of travel team.
Anon says
No. I would step in for personal, very targeted bullying (“you’re ugly and stupid”) but I think that kids in that age group need to learn how to navigate things like this on their own.
Anon says
I agree with this distinction. Calling someone names is pretty different than saying “that was a bad throw,” which, if accurate, is not really something you’re going to be able to stop kids that age from saying. I was kind of terrible at my chosen sport so I heard stuff like this a lot and it wasn’t fun, but if my mom had tried to go to the coach about it, it would have just resulted in worse comments out of the coach’s earshot. These kids are 10ish. If the coach sits them down about this, they’re going to know which kid the coach is talking about and just be meaner to your kid when the coach isn’t around.
Anon says
Agree. Maybe you can role play and empower your child to stick up for himself
Anonymous says
Context: I have a 4th grade daughter who plays tons of sports, and I’m a coach of various teams and ages (currently 4th grade softball and K soccer, have coached other sports and grades).
So much of this depends on the kids and the nature of the sports team. If it’s a rec league type team and the kids are just being a-holes and singling your kid out, yes, talk to the coach. It’s unsportsmanlike. However, if it’s a competitive team and your kid is making the team less competitive, I think this is a more nuanced conversation. Being part of a team means doing your very best to make the team better. Is your kid giving his/her best effort, or just kind of not taking seriously a game/sport that other kids are taking very seriously? In this context it’s more of a discussion with your kid about their performance and overall attitude toward the sport, plus some observation about the nature of what the other kids are doing – are they frustrated at the situation or just plain old picking on your kid who is trying his/her damnedest?
4th grade is around the time when kids and coaches start to take sports fairly seriously. In soccer, 3rd grade is when the kids are placed on teams by ability. In lacrosse, basketball and softball the teams are leveled in 3/4 (eg. made fair by spreading the good players out) and compete in-town and in 5th/6th they are put on teams based on skill (eg. A, B, C team) and compete with other towns. If you have a kid on the B team who is playing like a kid on the C team with a bunch of kids who want to be on the A team…then look for a different team for your kid.
But name calling, taunting, and just plain nastiness is unacceptable at any level and should be addressed by the coach.
Spirograph says
I agree with all of this, and also with the comment at 12:01, so I retract my original response. I was making assumptions that this is a rec-level team and the comments are mean-spirited, and while I still think a good coach should shut that down in the interest of sportsmanship, team cohesion & fun… 12:01 is correct that if the coach hasn’t done anything yet, it’s probably just not a good fit.
Confused Associate says
What is everyone doing/asking for this mother’s day? I need ideas of what I can ask for. I’m in a busy time at work but I will be sad if I say I don’t want anything and the day ends up being lackluster.
Anonymous says
I’m getting my hair highlighted/cut/blow out the day before. I am going to ask for more hanging flower baskets (I am not a STUFF person). Usually we go to church and then grill. Honestly I might ask one of our family friends over so the kids can play.
Cb says
Uk Mother’s Day is earlier but my formula is brunch, bookstore, yoga class.. my birthday formula is sushi, bookstore, vegan chocolate cake.
Boston Legal Eagle says
My Mother’s Day formula is similar – long workout, lunch out, bookstore (all ALONE).
We have a daycare bday party scheduled later in the day on Mother’s Day, so I may end my day with that this year.
anon says
I curse the person who scheduled a bday party on mother’s day, and I will not be convinced to feel differently.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Yep, it was weird to get that invite. Guess it was the only day available at this place?!
Anon says
Yeah someone mentioned a kid party on Mother’s Day a year or two ago and I was so surprised. Who does that!? But parties aren’t normally held on Sunday where I live anyway.
Anonymous says
Thank you for confirming the point I made to my husband a couple weeks ago that, while *I* don’t mind if my son’s birthday party is on mother’s day, the people we invite might not appreciate it.
GCA says
I have a kid born very near Mother’s Day! I wouldn’t schedule a birthday party then, simply on the basis that half of the invited families might beg off due to Mother’s Day commitments. (Yep, we’re having his birthday party this weekend and now also have to navigate around Star Wars Day fun like the Millennium Falcon in an asteroid field. 9yos, man.)
I have a similar Mother’s Day formula, too! Long run, bookstore solo time, something delicious with family (sushi or exploring a new restaurant/ takeout place) – and usually on the Saturday, not the Sunday, because I have trouble with crowds.
Anon says
Ugh I’m sorry. I was a Mother’s Day kid and my mom never got a proper celebration. I still feel guilty about it! I also don’t love it as a mom because the two celebrations usually just get merged into one, similarly to birthdays near the winter holidays. But at least your son won’t have that problem :)
anon says
Counterpoint: dads can take the kids and moms can do *gestures all around* whatever. In my NYC area, it’s dads taking kids to most parties anyway
Anon says
I live in a college town and it’s graduation weekend, so our town will be overrun with grads and families and it’s impossible to get a reservation anywhere. We used to travel for this weekend to celebrate + get away from the graduation crowds but that doesn’t work now that we have a kid in kindergarten. I guess we’ll just celebrate the following weekend, but it feels blah.
Anonymous says
Letting me sleep in- my husband will sneak the kids out of the house to go buy breakfast for everyone. The kids love acting like spies and actually talk about this all year. I usually also ask for them to fill out a survey about me because I think the answers are hilarious- favorite color, favorite activity, job, etc. Hopefully going strawberry picking if it’s nice, and then a dinner of my choice. But not eating out because I hate the crowds and set menus.
Anonymous says
Last year my husband took our 3-year old to the Bagel Trolley (a bagel store that is in an old train car) to get breakfast for all of us and my kid had a major meltdown because he thought they were going to get to ride the bagel trolley!
Mary Moo Cow says
We’re going out to lunch and then either a museum or botanical garden, depending on weather. Then we’ll have in-laws over for dinner. I don’t want stuff, but I am going to ask for a big bunch of cut flowers. I’ve struggled for a few years with the day being lackluster, so this year, I’m lowering expectations and speaking up. (Although, last year, I sent DH with the kids to a kid’s birthday party and did enjoy 2 quiet hours!)
Anon says
Unfortunately my husband is on call so we’ve called in the reinforcements AKA my in laws to come help, so I think we are celebrating my MIL on Mother’s Day.
My ideal Mother’s Day is NOT being a mom (aka being alone), but that’ll have to wait for another weekend.
anon says
I give DH a link to the exact thing I want. This year it is a plant, one year (a favorite) was a very specific waffle maker. I get to sleep in. I ask him to help the kids write a card with him. Not sure this year if we will see our moms, but think on what you actually want and be very clear to your partner.
Anon says
My birthday is right before Mother’s Day, so it usually ends up being kind of anticlimactic. I’m doing a chocolate making class with my kid on Saturday that will be both birthday activity and Mother’s Day celebration. I will tell my husband to get me flowers and kiddo is making crafts at school.
Anonymous says
Going out to breakfast (not brunch) at my favorite breakfast place. I am going to get my favorite huevos rancheros and drink delicious coffee, then putter around in my garden the rest of the day listening to podcasts, and it is the only day where my husband makes a really big effort to not ask me 100 questions as soon as I have my earbuds in. Otherwise it’s some how like he just knows the second I get them in and wants to talk.
We also have a classmate’s birthday party on Mother’s Day. I’m going to send my husband and son and stay home myself.