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Anon says
Just venting because I’m feeling a little down this morning… Anyone else live in the city and feel like sometimes city living with kids is a lot? I have always been a city person and considered myself pretty street smart and willing to deal with the small stuff for the luxury of walking everywhere and having awesome restaurants, cultural venues, shopping etc. right nearby. But now that we have a child, I’m noticing all the more unsavory parts of city living. I love the diversity and try to donate to local organizations, be friendly with my neighbors, take part in local events, and generally be a good citizen. But there have been issues with rats and trash in several local parks, some scary interactions with homeless and mentally ill people, a rise in gang violence in the projects a little ways away, and now we just found out that the city is building a “safe inhalation site” and shelter not too far away from us, right next to a local school and an farmer’s market we love. I know this is a complicated topic and I get the benefits of this type of shelter in theory, but I can’t pretend I’m not concerned about the impact on the environment and safety of the area. We’ve always known this isn’t our forever house because the schools aren’t good, but we were going to wait until our child is older (currently in a great daycare nearby) and hoping to stay in the city anyway. Meanwhile, all of our friends are moving to the suburbs. We’ll see where we are in 2-3 years, but we probably can’t afford the really fancy parts of our city without significantly compromising on space, so we may end up in the suburbs too. I realize this is just how life goes and very much a first world problem, but I’m feeling a little down because I thought raising a family in the city could work, and now it feels like the local administration really isn’t supportive of that, or maybe I’ve just gotten too sensitive after having a baby. I also feel like cities somehow got a lot worse after covid somehow, and I’m not sure how we recover from that collectively.
Anonymous says
Cities have gotten worse and you’re more sensitive to it. But no one wants to live surrounded by open drug use and it’s going to start costing liberals elections. A pro choice pro gay anti gun Republican could win NYC tmrw
Anon says
There are no pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-gun Republicans! You’re describing a moderate Dem (which is most Dems if you live in a red state).
Anonymous says
Well Mike Bloomberg was and I’m hopeful we will find another one like him! They may not exist nationally but I know them in person and think they are lingering around.
Anon says
Bloomberg is a Democrat now and was an Independent for more than a decade before that! There is no space at all in the current a Republican Party for this kind of person (and tbh even long before Trump there wasn’t really space in the party for actively pro-choice people – being anti-choice is a central tenet of the Republican Party). The people you’re desiring like Bloomberg are all independents or moderate Dems.
Anonymous says
“pro choice pro gay anti gun Republican” This, like the tooth fairy, is not a real thing. All 3 of those qualifiers are antithetical to Republicans.
Anon says
This is what is going unsaid, at least some of the time, about the return to office debate in San Francisco. Sure, the long commute times and harm to lifestyle are issues too, but no one is rushing back to San Francisco because it is so sketchy in the parts of town where the jobs are.
Anon says
Eh I dunno, the downtown areas of SF were always kind of seedy. Not saying it’s not worse now, but this isn’t a brand new issue. And the commute/lifestyle factor is huge in the Bay Area – traffic there is worse than most places except maybe LA.
Anon says
Of course – I’m in the Bay Area myself and I would say that for me personally, the commute/lifestyle factor outweighed the safety factor, but I also had the luxury of a flexible schedule and could always leave work before the streets got especially bad at night. The other risk now is that with BART ridership down so much, people do not feel safe alone in a car with a high and mentally unstable person pacing at the other end. It used to be safety in numbers, but not anymore. BART is well aware of this, but doesn’t have the money to police every single car.
Anonymous says
Hi, I appreciate this post because we also grappling with this issue! Currently in a city where the neighborhood was improving but now seems to be backsliding a bit, at least based on the number of gun shots I hear. As of now the pros (short non car commutes for everyone, good elementary school community, walkable to everything, tons to do, insanely low mortgage) still outweigh the cons (litter, some property crime and petty theft, uneasy interactions with the mentally ill). That said, while I really like our school, because the city is transient by nature I’m a little sad by how many of my kids friends have moved on for various reasons and wonder if we can really build a lasting community. People we know that have moved talk about how great the suburbs are but I know I would struggle with a long commute and less walkable area. We’re saving our money now so we can be ready to move if necessary but I wish I could feel more settled one way or the other.
Anon says
Yep. Many liberals I know like to fall back on technicalities like “but property crime is actually down 1.3%, so it’s not that bad!” to invalidate concerns. A baby playing on the playground in San Francisco almost died after crawling into fentanyl. That is not OK and we don’t have to pretend it is.
Also, ceding the streets to people with severe mental illness and substance use problems is specifically harder for women, children, people with disabilities, and the poor who have fewer options to get away quickly and safely. A bus stop is now a homeless encampment? A poor woman carrying a kid is now denied her right to use it to wait. A city elevator is now a toilet? Now a wheelchair user has to roll through that.
I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I’m a liberal progressive who has always voted for progressives and I will say outright that there is definitely a problem.
Anonymous says
100% this.
The thing that I find especially frustrating is that so many of the crises that cities are dealing with are due to federal inaction. The fact that Venezuelan refugees in my city can’t work, for example. Or the inability to police fentanyl originating in China.
I’m optimistic that the tide is starting to turn in terms of how cities govern themselves. But they’re going to be fighting an uphill battle without federal support, and of course we live in an upside-down world in which lawmakers love to bash the urban centers that drive the majority of growth, innovation, and tax revenue.
We live in a top 5 city and we’re raising our kids here, so we’ve made our bet. One of the reasons we moved here from NYC was to get that big city lifestyle without the homelessness, open drug use, etc. Crime is a problem here but day-to-day, in our neighborhood, it’s very family-friendly.
Turtlemania says
As a current NYCer, I’m curious where you ended up!!
OP Anon says
Same here – I’m a progressive liberal and feeling frustrated. My area is trying to move forward and this just feels like a big step back. There are some more gentrified spots (including my block), but also a lot of low-income families and they are just as frustrated if not more. The public school next to the proposed shelter is already mostly very low income (low rankings, lots of kids on free lunch, lots of kids who don’t speak English, the wealthier families near us don’t send their kids there), and it feels like a double whammy. I have a car so I don’t need to deal with some of the issues regarding public transportation, but the area directly adjacent to our subway stop is scary and people dependent on it need to cross a sketchy patch twice a day, and as a woman I certainly wouldn’t want to hang around there at night waiting for the bus.
Anonymous says
Of course it’s a double whammy. The people in the more well off public schools have a better ability through time and connections to keep it from being located near them.
Anonymous says
It also matters how many kids you have. Fighting the city fight is one thing with one or two kids; the game shifts when you are talking 3-4 kids.
Signed, have 3 kids in a giant house with a 3 car garage in the suburbs which is a very different life from our 2br apartment in the city with street parking.
Anonymous says
We moved out of DC last year partly because of this — local parks full of dangerous trash and people harassing us in our neighborhood. We miss a lot of the great things about city life, and we hope to downsize to a city condo once the kids are grown, but for now we’re happier in a more suburban area.
Boston Legal Eagle says
It’s tough. I spent part of my early childhood in a city (though not in the U.S.) and I feel like it gave me so much more independence to just be able to ride the bus or subway to wherever I wanted to go, alone (starting at ages 10-11!). No way I see that level of independence happening for my kids. But… suburb life here is just so much easier for me. I would say the calculus really shifts at more than 1 kid, but even with 1 kid, school consideration was a big one. I know we had a lengthy discussion about schools here last week, but city schools here (Boston) are not by neighborhood zone, they are random, and you have to test in to the desired ones, and suburb life is just so much easier to know where your community will be. My kids are friends with kids nearby. Driving around to local places is easier. I don’t need to drive to my job because I can take the train. More space. Two cars. A yard, etc. etc.
Anon says
There are lots of benefits to city life, but I would agree with that suburban life is just easier in a lot of ways for the day to day. It’s kind of hard to understand how much until you experience it.
Anonymous says
Yeah, I grew up in the suburbs and went to college in a big city and that was enough to convince me that city living is not worth the hassle and expense. Doing laundry, buying groceries … everything is an ordeal and it just doesn’t need to be that way.
Anon says
EXACTLY – if you move to a good suburb (that still has some attributes of city living, such as great restaurants and good walkability), your life can become so much easier while still retaining lots of benefits. Doing laundry is no longer an epic task. Parking is no longer Herculean. Grocery stores actually have full stocks. Green space is easy to come by. I was so tired of spending so much mental labor on things like where to obtain laundry quarters and what day is street cleaning again and is the bus schedule different for the holiday or not. I no longer have homeless men screaming through the window at my cat. It is so, so much more calming.
That said, a crucial element that made suburbs work for me was finding one where I can still bike and walk a lot of places. It wouldn’t be so great if I were stuck in the car constantly.
Anonymous says
Sorry, but suburban life is a prison! Nothing is available to you unless you get in a car. We tried it and moved back to the city.
I live in an urban neighborhood with a 90+ walkability score. I walk to coffee shops, restaurants, Sweetgreen, shopping, parks, playgrounds, my dentist, my doctor, the library, school, my favorite wine store, and the theater. I get in my car to pick up groceries once a week, or for school runs when the weather is bad.
Anon says
I live in a suburb and do all those things on foot or on my bike. The key is picking a non-car-dependent location. Unfortunately there aren’t enough of those.
Anon says
Different people care about different things. Personally I don’t see having to use the car as prison unless the traffic is very bad. I hate being stuck in traffic but don’t mind driving if the car is moving.
Fwiw I’m in suburbia and we can also walk to school, coffee shops, some restaurants, the library, the gym and lots of playgrounds/walking trails/nature areas so car use isn’t a daily thing for me either now that I WFH.
Anonymous says
I think your suburban experience is typical, AND I think you lived in a crappy suburb. I live in a suburb and regularly do all of the things you listed, except the theater. My three kids are usually with me, which I’ll admit takes a bit of planning. I totally get that suburban life isn’t for everyone. But the problems OP listed are real: I’ve lived them. And they are getting worse, according to our friends who held out in the city and ultimately decided to give the suburbs a try. Is it perfect? Definitely not, but there are a lot of upsides for families.
Anonymous says
I like being able to drive my car places, park it easily, and use it to transport groceries and strollers and sports equipment. Not being able to have a car is a significant downside of city living for me.
Anon says
I lived without a car in a major U.S. city (Boston) for nine years and it was great in some ways, but I found that it ultimately cramped my love of the outdoors. I went skiing less, didn’t explore some of the far-flung towns I would have loved to go to, ended up spending entire days on the train for what would’ve been quick drives, etc. We used Zipcar when needed, but usually found ourselves turning down opportunities to drive somewhere because the sticker shock for a full-day outing was too much, whereas when you own a car (which we do outright), the costs are absorbed throughout a year. It all depends on your lifestyle.
anon says
A prison? That’s … a bit overstated.
Cerulean says
In a lot of inner ring suburbs with walkable downtowns, you can get all of that. My suburb has a great downtown with most amenities you would need in a regular week and train service to the city. Kids walk to school. It’s definitely at a price premium over farther out suburbs, but it exists.
Anon says
I had the same experience as 12:26 living in Boston (well, Cambridge). For my final few years in the area I moved out to Waltham and had an old, fully paid off car and I loved it because I could finally explore the local area but it was still easy to get into the city for restaurants and events. I think people are city people or suburb people and I’m definitely the latter.
Anonymous says
I think the “benefits” of city living are a mantra city people repeat to make themselves believe it’s worthwhile. I know absolutely no one who left the city and regrets it. Everyone is like OMG how did we ever live that way?
Anon says
Honestly +1 to 1:53. Like before we moved I used to think we would move back to the city after the kids left and now I can’t even imagine wanting to. But I’m sure this greatly depends on what city one is talking about.
Anonymous says
I want to move to Chicago when my kids leave home (currently in the burbs of a smaller Midwest city). But Chicago is pretty much the only city in the US where I can see myself living in the city proper, and I wouldn’t want to live there with kids even if we had the money for private schools.
Anonymous says
I am reminded of the episode of “How I Met Your Mother” where the gang goes to New Jersey and Marshall talks about how it’s nice to walk around in a store where he’s not running into everything or knocking things over.
Anon says
That’s true to life! I grew up in the Midwest and when my grandfather who spent his whole life in Brooklyn visited us for the first time his main observation was about how wide the grocery store aisles were. He couldn’t stop marveling about them.
Anon says
Do suburbs not have buses? I grew up in and currently live in college towns, so not big cities at all and no subway system, but we have city buses that kids can ride solo beginning in middle school.
I do agree with your general point about suburb/small town living being easier though.
NLD in NYC says
Depends on the area, but many do not have a transit system that is effective enough to for families and kids to be car free.
Anon says
The bus system isn’t perfect and I don’t know any adults here who don’t have at least one car for the household but it’s a decent way for 12-15 year olds to get around when they’re in that phase where they’re independent but can’t drive alone.
Anon says
My suburb outside a major metro area effectively does not.
GCA says
I could have written this. I grew up in a city in Asia (maybe the same city, BLE?!) and was taking bus and subway on my own from age 9-10. We lived in Cambridge for several years then picked a small city outside Boston (Quincy) when my oldest was about to enter K, because it had a solid and predictable school system without Boston’s wild fluctuations, and decent public transit – kids there get a transit pass from middle school and take transit to school on their own.
I think the social and community benefits of a city vary by the age of your child. For babies, I loved the ease of mom-group meetups while on maternity leave, at coffee shops I could walk to. For toddlers, you can strike up a conversation at any neighborhood playground because everyone uses those instead of being ensconced alone in their backyards. For elementary kids, their friends live nearby and you can just walk over and knock on the door to play. And for older kids, a larger and denser school means the school can potentially offer more enrichment opportunities and there is just statistically a better chance of finding ‘your people’ in the throng.
Downsides: In US cities there are obvious public health and safety problems: needle disposal, human waste. And the community benefits of a city don’t work if all your friends with small children are moving to the suburbs anyway.
Anon says
That sounds so stressful! I hope things improve but I would encourage you to be open minded about the suburbs. I have never had a friendlier community around me with beautiful walking paths and everything designed for families in mind.
Anonymous says
I think living in a city with a young child is hard, regardless of whether crime, homelessness, and drug use are on the rise or not – you just have less space for everything and often no private outdoor space. It feels like everything is a schlep, expensive, and logistically complicated. But some of the benefits do get more apparent as they get older. We are in Brooklyn and now that our son is 11, he’s riding the subway alone to school. On Sunday we dropped him off at a Scout volunteer event on the other side of Brooklyn and he was able to come alone on public transit while we did what we wanted. Last night he walked over to the grocery store to get something we needed for dinner. I totally understand why people move to the suburbs, and if we had had a second child it might have pushed us over the edge, but I’m glad we stuck it out.
Anonymous says
PS – I get why you are concerned about the shelter and safe inhalation site, but details matter here. There is a family shelter in our neighborhood that is right next to a school. When it was built about 5 years ago there was a lot of concern, but it has generally proven to be a non-issue and welcomed by the neighborhood. The fact that it is housing for families with children probably is key.
OP Anon says
Thanks – it’s nice to hear some positives since I’m generally a big fan of city living, and I also grew up in a city (but not in the US) and really loved in the independence it gave me. The logistics were a little tricky with a tiny baby but now that I have a toddler I feel like I have it under control most of the time, and our fantastic daycare is walking distance and that’s a huge pro for me. I get your point about being patient with the shelter – there is a mom and kids shelter that was built in the area recently and I donated to it and have had zero concerns walking by. But this is a men’s shelter and “safe” drug space, and the city’s record with those is very bad, so while I want to be optimistic I’m also very concerned.
Anonymous says
No I would be too. Good luck with whatever you decide!
Anon says
After kids I just don’t have the wherewithal to put up with some of the less glamorous parts of city living. I feel like it’s hard to let your kid play in a park without helicoptering over them because who knows what they’ll find. I also just don’t want to deal with someone breaking into my car and doing god knows what next to the expensive car seats.
NLD in NYC says
Eh… there are pro and cons no matter where you live. I realize that as a native New Yorker I might be bias (though I did spend part of my childhood in a house in an outer borough) I bristle at the assertion that the suburbs are automatically better than city living. If you can find (read: afford) a magical suburb that has great schools, is economically and racially diverse, has liberal leaning policies, and a great commute then by all means move. But will you have to rebulid your social support systems? Drive 20 minutes minimum to the nearest Target or grocery store? Drive an hour + to the city for cultural opportunities?
Anonymous says
I lived in chicago and I couldn’t find a neighborhood that was affordable and had great schools, diversity, and a good commute. I could do cheaper and but less good schools and a longer commute or easy commute but expensive. And lots of cities are diverse if you look at total population, but segregated by neighborhood.
So we moved to a Southwest city, which is basically like a suburb in the sprawl. Sure we drive to the store, but its 5 minutes, and we have a social system here. Turns out I go to the park a lot more when its not full of needles and so do the other parents. Leaving the city I lost the ability to walk to the store (which I never did because I only have time to shop once a week so I took the car), some food options, and some museums. I’ll take that trade.
Anon says
We were die hard city people in a city with all the problems you reference, but eventually moved to the burbs. we have been so happy with the move. For us, life really is just easier and we don’t have to deal with all the things you are talking about. It’s one of those things where I didn’t even realize how much stress I was carrying day to day about those things until I felt the relief of not having to anymore. When we moved to our current place I thought I would die not being walkable to things for the first time of my entire adulthood, but it is amazing how quickly we adapted and honestly it’s not even something I think about anymore. But we are lucky to live in an area where the stuff I need to drive to is generally 10 minutes or less. Also, while city stuff isn’t walkable, my kids CAN walk to several of their friend’s houses already in early/mid elementary school and that’s honestly more valuable to our day to day than being able to walk to a restaurant.
Plus life as your kid gets older just changes. Like if they are really into sports, it’s possible a lot of your weekends are taken up by sports and kid birthday parties and stuff. It’s not like the early toddler years where every weekend is an open book to wander around kid friendly museums and the like. Which at a certain point you all get a little bored of too when you’ve already been dozens of times. We still do that stuff too, but not often enough simply due to schedules where going into the city for when we do want to really isn’t a big deal.
I think key is finding a suburb you would be happiest in though, which will vary for different people. And of course in a lot of suburbs there are areas that are like a small downtown and houses that can walk to those things, but unfortunately we aren’t the only ones with that mentality and those houses in our area were significantly more expensive – but great if you can find that unicorn!
I don’t mean to make this sound so anti kid raising in the city, obviously there are people who make that work and enjoy it – but I just want to help your fears that moving would be the worst thing ever. For some it is and some it definitely isn’t. And we still have friends in the city with kids and it’s not like we brag about how great the suburbs are to them because that would just be weird and come off as judgey, so just because no one ever does that doesn’t mean they don’t feel that way.
Anon says
Yeah I think suburbs get a bad rap but they can actually be fantastic. I cared about taking buses, the metro and walking everywhere in my 20s and 30s, but I honestly don’t have the energy for that anymore, and with kids, it sounds totally unappealing.
Anon says
I’m in Philly and tbh the crime, homelessness and drug use doesn’t bother me too too much, but there are two factors that make me want to gtfo the city asap.
– city living is just hard with a kid. Apartments and houses are small with limited storage. My area is all row homes so there’s the hazard of stairs and the pain of having to go up / down stairs 900 times a day. We don’t have a yard. We have 3 stairs up to our front door so the stroller is a pain. Parking is a pain. Walkability is nice but it’s just harder and less convenient now.
– Philly is the poorest large city in the country. We don’t have resources that I grew up enjoying (libraries with decent hours and programming, pools and parks with decent hours and programming). Any activities are private and a) expensive b) not diverse
Our plan was always to move to the burbs by the time the baby was a toddler (I want her to have a yard and eventually be able to walk / ride a bike to friends’ houses or the park). We also were never planning on sending her to her public school in the city, so knew we’d have to move by K anyways. But, we are itching to move up our timeline.
Anon says
I will add the caveat that we have very specific guidelines for what we want in the suburbs though. We want a town with good train access to the city and a house that’s walkable to the town and train. I will never ever live in a driving only suburb, but luckily we have good walkable options here.
Boston Legal Eagle says
A close in suburb or at least one with train access is key and can really give you the best of both worlds. The ease of suburb life + ability to get to the city without rush hour traffic. I think most East Coast cities have this (though ease of public transit varies), although it’s rarer in SF/LA/West Coast cities.
OP Anon says
We are fortunate to have a small yard and patio, but we are also in a rowhouse so I feel you on the steps and stroller logistics! Our city does have some good amenities – we have a nice library nearby and access to a indoor/outdoor community pool, cute kids museum, splash pads, lots of playgrounds. It’s mostly the crime, drugs and litter that are weighing on me right now. And the schools – we are not there yet, but public school just aren’t good where we are.
anon says
We lived in Philly for many years and now live in MontCo. It’s so nice having reliable trash service, libraries that are open more than a couple of hours a week, and a fully functioning recreation department (and an outstanding school system, though we haven’t started school yet).
Anon says
Yes I’m from MontCo and we’re looking at close in MontCo suburbs near my parents with walkable downtowns and trains. I CANNOT wait for the MontCo libraries, rec system (I pretty much lived at my township pool as a kid), and schools.
anon says
I spent 10 years living in various cities without a car. I loved the walkability and being surrounded by shops and restaurants and events. I hate driving, so it was pretty great. I married a single dad who lived in an inner-ring suburb (technically in the city limits, but a suburb from a density and lifestyle perspective), and we subsequently had two additional kids.
I was pretty anti-suburb, but I relocated all my regular errands/trips (church, grocery store, tailor, dry cleaner, bagel shop, etc.) to places within a 10-15 minute drive of my house. Since I would have been walking at least 10-15 minutes to most of those things when I lived in town, it doesn’t take more time (although I do have to drive). I am a lot closer to outdoor stuff now (there’s a national park on the edge of my city, and my drive time to other parks is shorter) and my suburb is super woodsy so I see tons of wildlife. I do miss the incidental, easy exposure to cultural events, like symphony performances in the park, festivals, etc. but I also recognize that in my stage of life (with four kids in the house, school events, weekend sports and dance practice) I wouldn’t really be doing much of that anyway.
The main thing I worry about for my city now is simply that many people cannot afford to move away from the parts of it that have become unsafe, and that our government seems completely ineffective in doing anything to improve the situation of those people. Youth crime is *really* high, although down from its pandemic peak, and our city government just…has no response to that.
Anon says
I live in a major U.S. city (blue) in a red state – in what is considered the city part of our metro area – and have lived in NYC and D.C. as well. I’m a liberal. I really enjoy that our neighborhood is walkable, bikeable, and most things we need are a short car ride away (e.g. our elementary school is ~1 mile – yes we could walk/bike but it’s easier to drive).
I also agree with posters that it isn’t the ONLY way to live, and suburbs I’ve seen are quickly developing to have more trails, walkability, town centers, etc.
OP – FWIW I think “city” here means NYC, but I’ve heard what you have written from a lot of friends in the larger east and west coast cities that have blue city + state leadership (D.C., NYC, SF).
Anone says
Just weighing in here that I spent the majority of my post college years in NYC so it was unthinkable to live somewhere that wasnt walkable. We had one child and moved to a very close in suburb that was extremely pricey for Texas for the walkaibikity and city services. However, even with the phenomenal wealth in that town, there were frequent problems with package theft, car theft, lack of parking, vagrancy in the major street corners, terrible roads and traffic, poorly staffed library etc. We moved farther out to a proper suburb and I couldn’t be happier for life with two kids. Everything I need shopping or convenience wise like library, stores, kids activities, schools, parks and nature peserves are within a 5 minute drive. Also equally importantly, I know the fire/EMS departments will come quickly if my kid has an allergic reaction. I juat can’t imagine paying $1mm+ and the police not showing up unless it’s a homicide. My kids have numerous friends on our street and I have zero concerns about crime.
Every city is set up differently but I would urge you to not be afraid of the suburbs, as the kids grow or you have more than one child.
An.On. says
It’s interesting to see so many people describe how hard it is to raise kids in the city. I grew up in the city and now live and raise my child in a much more rural area and I have a real grass is greener jealousy about people in the city with kids who have multiple options for activities on any given day of the week. Our nearest public library isn’t even open on Sundays in the summer! We have backyard space, but sometimes it feels like just to go on some swings and a slide, our choice is either pay hundreds of dollars for a set up in our backyard, or pack everyone up and drive 15 minutes to the nearest public park. I’m envious of people whose kids can just trick or treat in their own apartment building no matter the weather. Out here, people drive into town and drop their kids off on a residential street while following them in the car and it feels so much less festive to me.
On the other hand, if my kid has a burning desire to see a goat we can walk down the road to my neighbor’s house.
Anon says
I live in Philly. Our library hours are M-F 10-6. That’s it. No weekend hours at all. Some are only M-F 10-5. Can’t go after work, can’t go on weekends. It’s awful.
OP Anon says
I realize there’s a real grass is greener syndrome here and there are pros and cons to everything. My friend lives in a very small town and was reminding me of all the challenges I don’t have. We have so much choice here and everything is nearby. Our library is open on weekends, and our street is actually a prime trick or treat location and gets really festive in October. My kid has never seen a goat, but the neighbor’s kids can play in the alleyway and there’s a nice community spirit on my street. I’m really frustrated that we are thinking of leaving because in many ways we love it here.
Anon says
See, I’m the opposite – trick or treating in an apartment building sounds SO sad and depressing to me. You barely go anywhere! Last year we went over to a friends’ (suburban) neighborhood for Halloween and it was amazing – so many kids and families in costumes in the streets, kids running from door to door, each house with its own unique set of lawn decor – how is that less festive than a drab apartment building???
Anon says
Same! I think apartment building trick or treating is depressing. I LOVE trick or treating in our suburban neighborhood. A huge pack of kids running from house to house all evening, with all the festive decorations and groups of parents hanging out and chit-chatting is my ideal Halloween.
True that sometimes the weather sucks, but usually it’s not bad and climate change is making late fall weather increasingly pleasant.
GCA says
Ah, but hear me out – have you actually been trick-or-treating in an apartment building? We did that for several years and it was great with tiny toddlers – not as far to walk, you don’t lose your toddler as it gets dark, and it makes trick-or-treating easier in inclement weather. Also, you’re forced to get creative with your door (I once wrapped strips of crepe paper across ours and pasted on the silhouette of a fleeing mummy).
Anon318 says
Has anyone used Beddy’s bedding for kid beds? Pros/cons? How thick is the blanket part? Any feedback is appreciated!
Anon says
I think I recall seeing a write-up on those on the blog Hungry Runner Girl…
Ifiknew says
this looked great, but Mt kids still occasionally wet the bed like 4 to 5 times a year total at 4 and 6 and it wasn’t worth the hassle to me to wash everything for that
Fallen says
People with older kids – how old is your kid, and do you have a time where you require your kid to be in their room/reading in bed/etc? If so, what age/what time? I have a pre-teen (age 10) who typically goes to bed at around 10:30 and later on weekends, but is super loud coming up/down the stairs, getting snacks, going to her bathroom 10 times, practicing dancing, etc until her bedtime. and it’s keeping her little brother up. Would it be reasonable to ask her to go to her room and read in bed after little brother’s bedtime (around 9)?
Anon says
I think that’s totally reasonable.
Anon says
What time do your kids get up for school? At age 10 our kiddo is in bed at 8:30 to read, lights out at 9!
That being said, yes making the whole house a “quiet zone” at 9 is perfectly acceptable.
EP-er says
We keep a pretty strict bed time for our kids (15 & 11.) They have showered, teeth brushed, PJs on, iPads/phones charging downstairs by 9 PM. We might do some family chats until 9:15, but then they are in their rooms in bed. The youngest will often stay up reading until 10 or 10:30, but the older one usually falls quickly to sleep…. 5:45 AM comes early! So, given our experience, I think that it is totally acceptable! But I know that we are outliers with the early bed times… We did go through a period of time where I had to remind my oldest to be quiet in the mornings – no stomping on the stairs or loudly closing doors while others are sleeping. Maybe a combination of approaches will work?
Anon says
How much homework does your 15 year old have?
EP-er says
Well, he gets home from school at 2:30, so I feel like he has enough time to get it all done. He has activities M & W from 4-7 & Tues 7-8:30, so has to plan around that. Sometimes it means doing HW through lunch or getting a head start a day early, but even in 10th grade we haven’t gotten to the point where we feel that “all nighters” are required or beneficial. A good night sleep helps so much more than cramming at 2 AM, in my opinion.
Anon says
All-nighters are never beneficial and hopefully never required!! Sleep is so important for teens.
Anon says
Ah – our high schooler doesn’t get home til after 6! I fully agree to no all nighters but with sports, dinner, and homework he’s not done til much later than yours! But, he also gets up at 7:15.
Spirograph says
100% reasonable. Everyone needs to know how to be a considerate roommate. There are “quiet hours” any time you live with/near other people!
Anon says
Our kids have school at 7:30 so get up at 6:45, and have always been on the lower end of sleep needs. We have them go up to get ready for bed around 8:15, let them read quietly once they’re done, and enforce lights out at 8:45 for my 8 year old and 9:15 for my 10 year old.
Honestly this doesn’t leave a ton of time for sports and homework so we’ve cut back on after school activities – just one per kid – as their homework gets longer. We’re zoned to be on a early school schedule through high school so I’m dreading the high school years. I’m guessing it’ll be a lot of sleeping in on weekends without sports/ events and in the summers to try to catch up.
Anonymous says
My son is 11 and still wants us to read to him, tuck him in, etc., and he is scared of the dark/being alone in his room at night while awake, so his bedtime on weekdays and weekends is 9-9:30. I need to go to bed around 10 and want some downtime before that. He also is somewhat incapable of sleeping in, especially just 1-2 days a week if he goes to bed really late. So we keep bedtime pretty consistent.
Anonymous says
my 10 year old is fighting HARD. She can’t go to bed before 9/9:30 but has to be up at 6:30 for school and is always exhausted. On weekends she sleeps until 9.
Our policy is that she has to be upstairs by 8, out of the shower by 8:30, and in bed by 9 but can read until 9:30. We have a basement shower and if she’s not out of the upstairs shower by 8:30 (or in it by 8:15) then she has to shower in the basement because it’s too disruptive.
My younger kids are in bed at 8 with an 8:15 lights out (2nd grader) and in at 7:30 with an ideal lights out at 7:45 (K).
Anon says
I am one of the “late bedtime for kids is fine” crowd but even I think that’s too late for a 10yo to be walking through the house. My 8yo is lights out by 9:15/9:30, and he is in his room by 8:30 and reading while I put his brothers to bed (My 6yo and 2yo are lights out by 8:45/9.)
9pm is a great time to be quietly in her room. I’d also probably enforce lights out by 10pm…she’s going to need more sleep as a teenager, if she doesn’t already, so may as well get on a good schedule.
Fallen says
Thanks everyone! How do you enforce all of this? Seems super tricky when we haven’t already had this pattern in place for a few years. Selfishly this sounds awesome too to have some downtime.
Anonymous says
What is her bedtime? AAP sleep recommendation for 6-12 year olds is 9-12 hours and 8-10 hours for teenagers. My 11 year old is up at 6:30 for school. She has to get in the shower by 8:30, in bed at 9 and reading or a bit of chatting with a parent depending on what she wants before lights out at 9:30. Her latest activity is her dance class which ends at 8:30 so that’s a quick shower night. (She’s in dance, skating, riding, volleyball, swimming). Electronics are all off and on the charging station by 8pm for all kids. No electronics in their rooms at night.
We don’t run a restaurant, the kitchen isn’t open all night. The dishes would never end. We also don’t allow food in bedrooms because gross (DH and I don’t eat in our room either). Kids have a piece of toast and glass of milk before bed if they are hungry after dessert. Water bottles in their rooms. Can get up to use the bathroom of course but have to go straight back to their bedrooms. If they can’t sleep they have to rest their bodies – they can read paper books if they can’t sleep but must stay in their beds.
I’m confused about how you enforce it? Put in place house rules and logical consequences for not following them. Escalate consequences if needed.
Fallen says
She is up at 8 for school, so often doesn’t really go to sleep until closer to 10:30
Part of the snack issue is that she has a crazy metabolism and also is like 95% percentile for height and 10% weight. She also does a ton of sports, including swim team which is very intense. She is hungry/eats a lot, and often gets hungry for a snack closer to 9. E.g., the other night she had two cheeseburgers and fries because she was so hungry. If I make something healthier she is often hungry for a big snack after dinner. But part of it is on me to offer more food than I think I should at dinner.
What consequences would you use for getting out of bedroom? Right now we have had conversations about not being loud after brother’s bedtime but its hard for her to remember. I am having a hard time thinking of logical consequences with this one.
Anonymous says
If she’s up at 8 for school, I’d aim for cutting off electronics at 8:30, staying in room after 9pm (or 9:30) and lights out at 10pm. Maybe she can listen to an audio book or read? Our consequence for getting up after bedtime (other than bathroom, or if they need to talk something important out) is an earlier bedtime. We expressly explain to them that they need to get enough rest, and that if they can’t stay in their bedrooms at bedtime they need more time to practice doing that. Explain the consequence in advance, not bring it up only after getting up multiple times. Explain that if she truly can’t sleep she needs to do quiet activities in her room to prepare her body to rest – stock her room with a low light lamp and a few puzzles and older kid colouring books/pencils.
There should be enough time to eat before bed if you do last snack before bed at like 8:45. I would do a dinner that has a solid protein source. (Our super active kid also loves avocado on her burgers/tacos). Then dessert – maybe like a nuts/fruit plate. I’ll often slice an apple or peach and fan out the slices around a handful of nuts in a flower shape. Or blend up some fruit and full fat yoghurt for fruit smoothies. If still hungry, we do a glass of milk and piece of buttered toast before bed if they are still hungry. You could do full fat milk and peanut butter on the toast if she needs extra calories.
Play date activities says
What are your favorite indoor play date activities for first graders? My first grader had a new friend over and the other child kept asking for video games or iPad so I feel like my usual go tos must be lacking. I think they still had fun but there was an awful lot of playing tag indoors which I would like to avoid in the future. (Two boys fwiw).
i run a lot says
Following! I just had the same experience with my 2nd grader. We are usually the house kids don’t want to leave so I was confused. Maybe this is just them getting older?
Anon says
I have a girl but arts and crafts are a big one – we save most of the fancier one time use art things that she gets at birthdays and bring them out on play dates. Those excavation kits to dig for dino bones are also a hit and may appeal more to boys. Stomp rockets and reusable water balloons are popular with both boys and girls this age. We have an inflatable water slide that kids love but it’s a bear to set up so we don’t do it that often.
We often take kids to the nearby playground (walking distance) if they seem to want to run around and play tag.
We don’t do screen time on play dates we host, but my kid often has it at other people’s houses so I don’t think it’s terrible to give them some screens if you want.
Anon says
i find it so sad (and not blaming you) that kids cannot find anything to do inside that doesn’t involve video games or an ipad. i host playdates and send my kid on playdates to play, not to be on a screen, especially in first grade. i do recall having a friend over in 3rd grade and sometimes during our playdate we would play this one computer game – where in the word in carmen san diego, but my mom only allowed it because we spent lots of time researching different places etc. and it was fully collaborative, not us only communicating with screens. and it was one computer for two kids. if a 12 year old is having a sleepover and wants to watch a movie i think that is fine, but for young elementary school, they should be able to play without a screen
Anon says
I’m not a fan of plopping kids in front of a TV (except as a short part of a sleepover or all day play date, as you said) but video games are kind of a social activity the same way computer games were. I played Oregon Trail and Super Mario on play dates probably starting around first or second grade.
Anon says
except kids now spend much more time on screens than they once did
Anon says
Depends on the kids and ages I think. I don’t think my elementary schoolers have way more time on screens than I did at that age.
daytime tv says
Source that kids spend more time on screens now than in the past?
Among my friends, plenty of us spent unreasonable amounts of time watching television in the 90s. Our children have very limited screen time, with more educational content, and only start screen time at an older age than when we started watching gobs of television.
Anon says
Just Google it. Toddlers are spending twice as much time in front of screens as they did in the 90s, kids over 8 are spending an average of 7.5 hours on screens for entertainment per day, etc.
Kids are also spending MUCH less time outside, so there is less physical activity and long-range vision activities to help offset that amount of screen time.
“Back in the day” we weren’t regularly using screens at school. Also, we only had one or two screens in the house for the family to share and were beholden to the programming schedule, which are naturally limiting factors.
Anon says
My elementary kids barely use screens in school. We didn’t have laptops but we weren’t zero screens in the 1990s (anyone else remember going to the computer lab for Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing and Number Munchers? Or the Voyage of the Mimi?). I had a lazy second grade teacher and we watched an insane amount of Reading Rainbow in school, like multiple episodes per day. I’m pretty confident my kids have less in-school screen time in elementary school than I did.
Cerulean says
Anon at 2:22, that may be true for you and your family, but average screen time is way up from when we were kids.
Anon says
I’m sure you’ll get criticized but I totally agree.
Spirograph says
We don’t do screentime on playdates unless that was part of the invite (eg”hey, son wants to know if friend can come over to play Minecraft Dungeons.” )
If anyone pesters me for screens I suggest one of the following
Board games
Puzzles
Dinosaurs
Blocks (and all their magnatile/building straws cousins)
Rainbow loom / misc crafts
Dolls / action figures
Fort-building
GCA says
I don’t think it’s you, I think families just have different rules around screen time. We do occasional video games on playdates but it’s capped at 30-60min of gaming (our house rule is that they can play video games but the other player/s must be in the same room so it’s a social activity). Kids have a friend who, mind-bogglingly, simply has zero screen time limits; this is the friend who constantly asks for iPad and video games while at our house, but it is ok to say no! Other indoor activities in bad weather include board games, Pokemon (the game and the card-trading) and lots of Lego.
What about cooking something? Kids had their cousins over all day yesterday and DH helped the 3 youngest make banana bread. Kid 1 and oldest cousin were off upstairs in Kid 1’s room nerding out about World War II or something.
GCA says
Also, we just moved and kept some of the rattier moving boxes for fort-building – endless fun in that one!
Anonymous says
I suggested fort-building (and even got our camping headlamps for them to use in the fort) and the other kid was not into it! Maybe he was hoping that play date meant he could get more than his usual screen time?
AwayEmily says
I have a new second grader and have hosted a fair number of playdates over the last year. Spying on the adults is a HUGE one. Starting a club with various membership paraphernalia (cards, secret codes, etc). Making potions. Legos (free building, not kits). Perler beads. Uno. Building a fort.
OP says
What does spying on the adults look like? Give them some walk-in talkies or something? How about potions?
AwayEmily says
If I want to instigate a round of spying, I usually say something like “you guys can play whatever you want, but do NOT spy on me! And whatever you do, don’t take notes on what I’m doing!” Then they take it from there.
For potions, their primary approach is to add dried-out markers to jars of water. Sometimes also dish soap, salt, etc. Ideally they do this outside (that way they can also put in leaves, grass, dirt, etc) but now that they are older I let them do it in their room if they’re reasonably careful.
Anonymous says
Genuine question–do boys play this way after the preschool years? IMO this type of interactive imaginative play is more typical of girls.
Anon says
My daughter is 6 and super into pretend play and has lots of friends who are boys and girls who are still very into it. Anecdotally, the dress up bin (which does include swords and light sabers) is the most popular indoor playdate activity among boys.
anonM says
My 5.5yo boy loves imaginative play! My cousins, boys and girls, all played imaginative games together probably until at least 10, maybe even longer. I think encouraging it, and giving the time and space for undirected free play go a long way! My son loves playing “camping,” and while I do have to ignore a mess, it is so sweet (and actually calming for him!). I think we sometimes really limit and do a disservice to boys in particular on this one (as a society, I’m not bashing anyone/thing in particular). FWIW, he’s very active, loves tools, etc. so isn’t a kid you’d necessarily stereotype as loving to play pretend, but he does!
Anonymous says
Yes my 8.5 year old boy does absolutely nothing except this kind of pretend play. I guess at recess he sometimes plays soccer but at home/with his brother/play dates are pretend play.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Does it have to be indoors? I get when it’s crappy weather, but my older kid and his friends are very active so we try to do some sportsball outside, or other running around activity. If inside, legos, marble run and other kinds of setting up an elaborate structure have been hits. Younger kiddo spent a 2 hour play date just doing play doh but I know that is just his particular personality and doesn’t work with most active kids.
OP says
I should have mentioned above but now it won’t let me edit, it was raining and cold, which is why I’m specifically asking about indoor activities. I totally agree when the weather is decent we try to do playground/stomp rockets/play catch/bubbles (probably getting to old for that last one though).
Anon says
Our semi finished basement is for wild antics. Longer post in mod but we just put up mats everywhere and added some equipment for sports and active play. My kids are high energy and so I send them die there when the weather is bad.
They can run and jump and be loud and go nuts
Anon says
I try to schedule playdates for both of my kids for the same time. That way there’s enough kids to play a bigger game if they want to. My kids are 2 years apart so they’re already in school with each other and thus know the other kids from the playground. With each kid having a friend or two over it’s enough for bigger games of capture the flag, soccer or other sports, or board games.
I don’t provide much direction, they tend to figure out what they want to do on their own. They cold up with a lot of games and scenarios on their own. +1 to forts and spying on the adults being BIG HITS.
My daughter and her friend will do science experiments, crafts, bake, make up a dance or a play. My son and his friends mostly just run each other ragged in the yard or basement.
We really encourage active play so have all sorts of fun toys for the outside and the basement which makes us a pretty popular house :)
Ifiknew says
what outdoor toys do you have?? our kids are 4 and 6 and I need some ideas..
Anon says
Trampoline, a few different types of scooters, bikes, pogo sticks, skateboards, basketball net, set of goals for the yard, pretty much every imaginable sports equipment available, swing set, tree house, pedal go karts, different yard games (ladder ball, spike ball), an obstacle course kit, a few different water games. We’re looking for the best setup for a little zip line too.
Our yard isn’t huge but is laid out well. Most of this is stored in the garage (1 car garage, we don’t park in it) when not in use.
Our semi finished basement is also a play area. We got mats for the floor and it’s set up with a climbing wall, a nugget couch, bean bags, mini basketball hoop, mini goals (basically set up for knee versions of sports). When the kids were smaller it had the Step2 roller coaster. We have other indoor toys down there too but it’s mostly an open room with space for whatever.
Anon says
I should add that our rule is pretty much that if it’s still light outside and is not bad weather, we play outside. We spent way more money and own way lire toys than I think we’d ever thing we would, but my husband and I are happy to invest in toys for active play. Our kids are outside, active, and often using their imaginations to come up with new games so it’s a worthwhile investment in our eyes.
We have plenty of books, craft supplies, puzzles, dress up supplies, board games, educational toys, and building toys too. We allow TV and some iPad games but don’t own any gaming systems as of now. We have other toys too but really most of what we have is focused on active play, creative play and educational play.
Anonymous says
Yeh that’s a hard no at our house. Also really sad. Our 1st grader does not have a tablet and goes to a crunchy screen-free school. So we don’t even have an iPad with games on it. (We aren’t total weirdos our kids do get TV time). We have a swingset so it’s all playing outside, playing pretend, legos, playdoh, board/card games (Uno, Go Fish, WildCraft).
Anonymous says
The whole point of a playdate is to interact, so I am always puzzled when they want to watch a movie or play on an iPad. I would find it similarly ridiculous if they wanted to sit quietly and read. Video games are different if they are both actually playing. Karaoke is another good interactive screen-based activity.
Anonymous says
Pull the cars out of the garage and let them play hockey with one of those toy hockey stick plus ball sets.
Anon says
I have three boys and I am with you. I’ve noticed that most of my kids’ friends have no attention span; they bop from one activity to the next and then ask for video games. Whereas my boys will play for hours with matchbox cars and Magnatiles. I think it is a hallmark of their generation being unable to cope with boredom or entertain themselves for long periods of time.
Honestly, I have to send them outside. Up until now we filled a big bucket with water and handed out water blasters. We’d also print off pictures of “villains” and tape them to trees, etc. and the kids would spend a very long time defeating the bad guys. Setting up soccer goals is another winner for us.
But if you must be inside, choose your playmates carefully! Not every kid is a good fit; some are better “playground” friends. My first grader has one friend who like brio trains and building things and that kid is my favorite. Lego is also fun, or sometimes I’ll help facilitate a board/card game.
Anonymous says
I had a group of first grade boys over last week and painting pumpkins (outdoors, in case that’s not clear) was a huge hit. I was shocked: this group can be pretty rowdy and at least one usually asks me for video games. I would recommend finger paint over washable paint: it lasts longer and easily washes off, which can be a second activity (though pumpkin washing was messier than the painting). I normally let them swim or ride bikes or take them to the park when I can’t handle the wild indoor antics anymore.
Anonymous says
I have a K and 2nd grader. When we do play dates they will usually do some combo of dress up/pretend play (American girl, barbie, LOL, straight up costumes), outside time (bikes/scooter/swingset/chalk), maybe a game for the older kids. I will sometimes do a DIY cooking (pizzas, brownies) if I feel like getting involved. I let them watch a little tv if it’s a long playdate but not for more than like 20 min.
Sometimes I’ll let them watch YouTube to get ideas for a craft they then do. We also have fun video games like dance dance revolution and guitar hero so some kids like that (others get too frustrated). They also like to listen to Taylor swift songs and act them out/have dance parties.
kids man says
We don’t do tablets or video games at home and I can totally see my 1st grader asking for them on a play date, in fact that’s her favorite part of play dates because we don’t have it at home. she probably also asks for juice, candy, chik fil a… Yes I’ve told her not to and that this is rude, but kids are kids. Lately she’s loved magnets and building forts. her boy cousins just play pokemon go and on their tablets.
Anonymous says
I have twin 8 year old boys. Our playroom has an art area, costume box (sizes and range interested so now houses various marvel/harry potter/dino stuff. Kitchen area (which still gets use), lego table, and train boxes. We also have an air hockey table inside and soccer nets outside.
Making suggestions also helps – like why don’t you see if you can make train set go in three circles or putting on an art video on youtube if they ask for screen time.
A roll of masking tape can also be used the mark the stations of an indoor obstacle course (this was a favorite in covid) and they can take turns timing each other.