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(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.10.24
(See all of the latest workwear sales at Corporette!)
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lands’ End – 30% off full-price styles
- Loft – Extra 40% off sale styles
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- Zappos – 26,000+ women’s sale items! (check out these reader-favorite workwear brands on sale, and some of our favorite kids’ shoe brands on sale)
Kid/Family Sales
- Carter’s – Birthday sale, 40-50% off & extra 20% off select styles
- Hanna Andersson – Up to 50% off all baby; up to 40% off all Halloween
- J.Crew Crewcuts – Extra 30% off sale styles
- Old Navy – 40% off everything
- Target – BOGO 25% off select haircare, up to 25% off floor care items; up to 30% off indoor furniture up to 20% off TVs
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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- The concept of “backup care” is so stupid…
- I need tips on managing employees in BigLaw who have to leave for daycare pickup…
- I’m thinking of leaning out to spend more time with my family – how can I find the perfect job for that?
- I’m now a SAHM and my husband needs to step up…
- How can I change my thinking to better recognize some of my husband’s contributions as important, like organizing the shed?
- What are your tips to having a good weekend with kids, especially with little kids? Do you have a set routine or plan?
dc mom anon says
Help! My 2 year old has decided to start waking up at 5am. Up until last week she consistently woke up after 7. I’m falling asleep as I type this. Any tips? It doesn’t feel right to CIO at 5am. I feel like she’s just going to cry for an hour and then it will be time to wake up anyway and our neighbors will super hate us.
She wakes up and wants to read books and start her day. Not hungry and not interested in potty.
TBK says
Can you leave board books in her bed so she can look at them on her own when she wakes up? My 2 yo twins have piles of books in their cribs (more than I would choose to have, but it’s how they like it) and Munchkin owl lights. When they wake up, they happily look at books for at least 30 min before I go in to get them. Also do you think she might be old enough for an ok to wake clock? (Been thinking of getting one for my kids just to get them used to it before we transition out of cribs.)
Closet Redux says
I am a huge Ok to Wake Clock evangelist. We got one for our kid when she was 2 1/2 and started waking up at 5am. It was a godsend. I could not believe how much we paid for it at the time (I think almost 70$!) but now I believe it is worth every penny. It took her only a few days to “get it” and now she NEVER calls for us earlier than the time we have it set. She sometimes hollers at exactly the set time suggesting she was awake and waiting like an angel, but more often seems to have gone back to sleep and calls for us a half hour or so after the set time.
AwayEmily says
DITTO! We are using it on our six-month old who obviously isn’t old enough to “get it” cognitively but the conditioned response was sufficient. Though we took a slightly different approach since obviously we couldn’t explain to her what was happening. First we set it for soon after she regularly woke up (4:30 am — she was waking up consistently at about 4:25am), and for a few days went in right at that time, acting super happy and YAY MORNING! Then over the next few weeks we started gradually setting the clock later (we did maybe ten minutes every three days).
The whole process took about a month and a half — she went from waking up at 4:20 crying to waking up at 4:20 and just chilling in her crib until the clock lit up, to waking up at 4:20, chatting for a minute, and then going back to sleep (YAY!) and now she finally doesn’t wake up at 4:20 at all (or if she does, she is very quiet about it).
NewMomAnon says
I finally started using the “Teach Me Time” clock with my kiddo (like OK to Wake, except it was the one they carried at Target), and it is truly amazing. One morning she woke up, saw that the light was green, and said, “Morning? NO!!!” and started crying (I completely understand). But usually she wakes up just after it turns green and is so excited that it’s morning and she stayed in bed all night until morning.
AwayEmily says
“Morning? NO!!!!” is hilarious.
TBK says
Oh man, that was my kiddo this morning. For some reason they both wouldn’t nap yesterday and this morning they slept until after 7:30. After I got B dressed, he started crying and tried to climb back into his crib, saying “time foah sweep, time foah sweep!” (time for sleep). Buddy, right there with you. (Why was this a Monday and not a Saturday?)
Anonymous says
Could you leave some books in a corner of the bed/crib when you go to bed that she can look at in the morning in her bed?
dc mom anon says
Thanks TBK and Anon!
We leave books in her crib and she used to look at them by herself until last week. She also has a lovey and night light that she can turn on. But neither of those things seem to soothe her now.
I haven’t tried the clock and I am not sure if she is old enough to get it. She seems to wake up pretty distressed, asking for “Mommy and Daddy come here now!”
Anonymous says
new books?
EB0220 says
Have you thought about moving to a toddler bed? My 2 year old will occasionally get up and walk around at 6 am to get a different book, etc. Something about the freedom seems to appeal to her.
anon says
What’s happening with her naps? Any other changes to her sleep routine?
Closet Redux says
Flu (shot) season is upon us! What are your tips for helping small children through shots?
My kiddo has always done great with her immunizations but is just now at the age (nearing 3) where I think she’ll need some extra help to be prepared and then to get over it. I’m try to be honest with these things; my plan is to tell her she is going to get a shot, that it will hurt, but that I will hold her until she feels better. Other tips? screens/ juice and other bribes are all on the table.
Also, is it ok for her to just go to daycare afterward or do I need to keep her home for the day? I’d rather not take a whole day off of work unless necessary.
Anonymous says
Fine to send her to daycare afterwards. Keep it low key so tell her in advance (like day of) but don’t make a big deal. Tell her it will hurt like when she snaps a rubber band/hair tie on her wrist so very quick. I usually offer a small treat that we can bring with us that she can hold while she gets the shot and have right away after (like 4 oreos or small bottle of pure apple juice).
Anon in NOVA says
Definitely fine to take her back to daycare afterwards! I would suggest giving some pain reliever before the shot if you’re comfortable doing so, will minimize the arm soreness.
My son did fine with shots until 3 as well. One thing that helped was we would get ours at the same time, he would watch me get it first and that seemed to calm him down. My advice is to just hold her in your lap like the nurses tell you and don’t let her arms escape, it’ll all be over soon :)
If possible, avoid getting them at a pharmacy/grocery store. Stick with the pediatrician’s office, health department, or somewhere else they’re used to doing kids. Makes it a lot easier, they know all the tricks.
Jen says
We just did this with my 3 y/o. I tLked it up so much that she had *no* reaction!
I talked about the shot, why she gets them, and that it might hurt a bit very quickly. We bought a new pack of band aids and she spent 10+ min agonizing over which one shed use.
As it turned out, I could get my shot at the same time, which I was not expecting, but it was a good distration- I got mine after hers so she could focus on that vs pouting. That night I asked her if her arm was a little sore bc mine was, and we took our band aids off together. The end. I was so proud of her / surprised by the maturity she showed.
Meg Murry says
Not sure how useful it will be for nearing 3 – but when my son was a little older we watched the Sid the Science Kid episode where his whole class gets flu shots every day for about 2 weeks, and talked about bacteria and immunity, etc. I’m pretty sure we found it on YouTube or the PBS Kids webs!te.
We wound up springing it on him this year (he’s 9) on accident – we were at the pediatrician’s for a different appointment and I asked if they had flu shots in and when they were scheduling appointments, and they said “we can do it right now”. He had a mild freak out for about 15 minutes but then calmed down and got the shot.
Betty says
We all go together to get the shot. My husband goes first, then the kiddos (incl. a 3 year old) and I go last. I would tell her morning of but not make a huge deal out of it. My three year old actually fought us (tried to wiggle loose) this year. The pediatrician’s office was great about just hitting a point where I just held her tight and we got the shot done. Despite the drama, she recovered quickly. And no problem in sending them to daycare after.
We also have a doctor play set, which has helped tremendously with doctor’s appointments and shot.
TBK says
No specific advice but FYI the shot this year is really easy. Last year I remember it burned at the end, but this year it’s almost painless. My kids cried when the needle went in but were fine within literally two minutes.
Katala says
Hm, mine was not that painful, but became extremely itchy and I had a big round red mark and raised bump for several days. I’m pregnant and got mine at the ob, so maybe that’s why. Kiddo hasn’t had his yet.
Coach Laura says
I got a big red bump this year for the first time (20+years of flu shots). I got the quad-strain shot though so maybe that’s it.
EB0220 says
Mine haven’t seemed to think it was a big deal. No crying from my 2 or 4 year old. They were content with a fancy band aid afterward. I took them both to daycare, but did make sure to tell the teacher that they had gotten the flu shot. My arm hurt for a few days, and my 4 year old complained about her arm for a few days too.
anon says
I failed miserably with my 4 year old this year. He kept saying he wasn’t ready, and I didn’t want to keep making the nurse wait, so I just held him down. I still feel guilty (thus this public confession), although he recovered quickly.
dc mom anon says
Thanks TBK!
We leave books in her crib and she used to look at them by herself until last week. She also has a lovey and night light that she can turn on. But neither of those things seem to soothe her now.
I haven’t tried the clock and I am not sure if she is old enough to get it. She seems to wake up pretty distressed, asking for “Mommy and Daddy come here now!”
Anon. says
I’m at the end of my rope as far as sleep deprivation. The baby works up at least 3 -4 times every night. Older kids also haven’t been sleeping great, so I’m really looking at like 5-6 wakeups every night. My fitbit tells me I average around 4 hours of sleep with 13 restless periods. I can’t concentrate at work and in the past week I have had a minor fender bender (I hit an object) and i fell down a flight of stairs. I feel like this is all related to long term sleep deprivation and I’m seriously becoming a danger to myself and others. Husband hasn’t been a great help, 3 kids has been tough of both of us and he isn’t handling lack of sleep well either, he doesn’t get up nearly as much as I do (probably 1-2 times/night), but he still isn’t getting great sleep. Usually when this happens we can visit my parents for a weekend and let them entertain the kids while we nap, but my mother had surgery last week so that is off the table. I don’t even know how to make the situation better at this point.
Anonymous says
What are the ages of the kids?
OP says
6 Months, 2, and 4
CPA Lady says
This might make me sound like an uncaring harpy, but I sleep trained my daughter at 5 months. Took 3 nights.
AwayEmily says
fellow uncaring harpy here (we did it at 9 weeks). Only took one night and it was LIFE-CHANGING.
Sarabeth says
We also sleep trained at 5.5 months. 6 months is a recommended window according to the Bedtiming book.
Em says
+1 I was trying to hold out until 6 months to sleep train but pediatrician greenlighted us at 5 1/2 months so we did it then. Best decision ever.
Momata says
I would “sleep train” the older ones. I am not sure why a 2yo or a 4yo would need to be getting up at night.
Anonymous says
in our house it’s because they have to pee. But with three kids, if they get up even once each and the baby wakes up 2-3 times, then it adds up to 4-5 wakings pretty quick. Hard to insist that a 2 yo and a 4 yo have to go 12 hours overnight without peeing. We tried putting them on the potty when we went to bed but found they didn’t always go then.
OP says
We recently moved and had a new baby. Their routines have been totally out of whack. Also2 year old has been sick so her routine is off so she has been getting up. 4 year old wet the bed over the weekend. They also share a room, so they tend to wake each other up.
HSAL says
No tips on how to get the kids sleeping better, but are you back to work? Can you take a couple days off? What about hiring a babysitter? This is serious enough that I’d be throwing money at it. You’re not safe if you’re that sleep-deprived.
And I’m really sorry. This sounds rough.
HSAL says
Sorry, missed the line where you talked about work. Yeah, do whatever you can to stay home for a few days.
Anon in NOVA says
If the kids are in daycare, take a day off and naaaaaaaaaaaaap. I know it’s tempting to hoard leave with the little ones, but you have to do something!
Meg Murry says
Unfortunately, the only answer to sleep deprivation is to figure out a way to get more sleep. For this week:
-Can you nap at lunch (or at least close your eyes and turn off your brain)?
-Can you take 1-2 nights “off” and go to bed at 7 pm and let H handle bedtime routine, then swap for another night?
-Can you bring in a “parent’s helper” this weekend to play with the kids so you or H can nap? Or one of you take all kids somewhere and leave the other at home to nap on one day?
-Can you take a vacation/sick day to sleep? Or at least a half day to sleep in and then work from home half day? If you don’t get some rest soon, you *will* need to take time off to deal with a more serious accident/injury/sickness, so 1 day now is probably better than a week of flu later.
Lorelai Gilmore says
My sister did this when she had the third baby and was super exhausted – she would go to bed super early, like at 7 or 8, and her husband would handle any wakings between 8 and 2, so she’d get a 6 hour stretch. Then he’d go to bed late and she’d be on call. It worked for them because it also worked with their natural circadian rhythms, but you might give something like this a try.
But right now, you need sleep desperately. Please make it a priority, even if you have to take a day or two or more off from work to get some rest. And your husband really needs to step up and help here. Sleep deprivation is a kind of torture and you need help.
Anonymous says
this is a great idea!
Coach Laura says
Yes, I was going to suggest what Lorelai Gilmore did – split the shift. If you have a guest room or a sofa that is away from the bedrooms, I’d try that with the separate bedrooms benefiting the sleeping parent. Otherwise, eye mask and ear plugs or iPhone with white noise app and headphones. Or as AnonMN below, alternate nights if not nursing.
If the kid shouts for mom, prepare the night before and tell them that the other parent will be taking over.
Moving is hard and hopefully things will settle down soon.
AnonMN says
Any way you can actually switch off with Husband? Like you each get a full nights sleep every other night? When I am feeeling like this (nursing my 8 month old, so that means I get most night wake-ups), my husband takes over with pumped bottles until I feel sane again. He puts the baby monitor right next to his head on the lowest setting and does all the wake ups with baby and toddler.
With my first (who was only waking up once starting around 5-6 months) we started switching nights around this time. It was great because you could always count on a good nights sleep after a crappy one. My second is a lot more mommy obsessed and loves nursing all night, so husband just takes over when I need it.
It might be harder with the 3, if they are up at the same time though.
Anonymous says
Split the load – you get up with the baby and let husband get up with the older kids.
OP says
Tried this over the weekend… resulted in a 2am meltdown of the 2 year old screaming I WANT MOMMY at the top of her lungs.
Anonymous says
We have three kids and we always tell them before they go to bed, which parent has the ‘night duty’. We emphasize that the other parent needs to sleep/help the baby. They do much better when they know who to expect at night. We’re a non-CIO family but as long as a parent is helping them, they don’t get to pick which one.
Closet Redux says
My 2 1/2 year old is really good about this, too. We tell her at night who will get her when she wakes up and she always remembers whether to call Daddy or Mommy without much fuss (even though she is going through a total mommy preference right now during other times).
Another R says
Definitely sleep train, with the guidance of a consultant if that’s feasible because then you’re handed a plan and any more work than that sounds too much for you.
That said, I agree with splitting the load. Either switch off nights, switch off portion of nights or divide up the kids. When any given child wakes, if your sleep training plan includes check-ins, the parent on duty gets the child who has awoken. Even if you have to deal with meltdowns before it clicks with the child that s/he gets a loving parent, but not necessarily the parent they would choose if given the option.
Sarabeth says
I’d certainly consider sleep training. Even if you have misgivings, I think this is exactly the kind of situation where the benefits (better rested parents, who are less likely to get depressed and more able to parent) outweigh the risks of infant stress.
What are your current sleeping arrangements? In your shoes, I would sleep in the nursery with the infant (buy an air mattress if you need to) and wear earplugs plus use white noise so that I couldn’t hear the older kids crying. Then you do all infant wakeups and your husband does all older kid wakeups.
Also – get a babysitter for 5 hours this weekend so that you can both nap. And if it’s remotely in the budget, I’d consider a night nanny for a night or two, just until you feel more stable.
OP says
I am all for sleep training! Going to just have to suck it up and start. (I think we did the older two around 9 months). My husband keeps mentioning sleep training, but he does no research/planning. So I keep saying, great! Come up with a plan, tell me what it is, and we will stick to it. Obviously hasn’t happened yet, so I guess its time for me to just do it.
Anonymous says
You might need to try one of the many suggestions here to get “caught up” on sleep first — out of this dangerous zone you’re in now — and then start sleep training a week or so from now. Because I can’t imagine listening to my kiddo cry for an hour straight if I was as tired as you. But I wholeheartedly agree that it’s a good idea to get your 6 mo old sleeping better on his/her own. Favorite resource for sleep training advice: preciouslittlesleep.com.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. It’s one of those things about motherhood that is SOOOO hard that no one really tells you about (or at least you can’t comprehend the reality of it) until you’re there. And I only have one kiddo!
Seriously consider paying someone for some help to get caught up. Or reach out to your friends with older kids or no kids to see if one of them can help out a bit. It’s not easy to ask for help, but your good friends would probably love to help you if they knew they could.
Anonymous says
6 months is a great age to sleep train. In your situation I would consider hiring a sleep consultant, who can probably help you deal with the older kiddo’s night wakings too.
Wow says
I agree on sleep training as well as a sleep consultant. Call Dr. Erin Evans at Baby Sleep Science (consult is over the phone). Best money I spent.
A more pricey option is to hire a night nurse a few nights a week. Give her the pumped milk or formula and catch up on your sleep, at least until baby is sleep trained.
Good luck. Hang in there, this sounds so tough.
Still deciding on a name says
Throw money at this problem! Especially in the short term till you find your groove. Weekend sitter, sleep training consultant, etc. Give yourself permission to splurge on whatever it takes to buy back your sanity. Once you’re this far down the exhaustion path, you need outside support to get back to something semi-sustainable.
Another recommendation says
Another over the phone consultant recommendation: sleepyheadsolutions [dot] com.
A few hundred bucks will buy you a plan and a couple weeks of support while you implement it.
TiredMomAnon says
My newborn son does not seem to have been born with any sleeping skills. I will put him down swaddled when he seems sleepy, I might sing a little song to him, I might pat or tap him or rub him a little bit, and he starts wailing within minutes. At most he falls asleep for one sleep cycle and then wakes up wailing. Letting him cry sometimes helps, but typically does not. He is, if anything, overfed. I give him a pacifier when he is awake, but I would rather not put it in his crib with him, because then when he falls asleep and it falls out of his mouth, he will wake up and scream more. I am exhausted, and I think the lack of sleep is impacting my mental health. Any suggestions? I’d really appreciate it. Thanks.
Anonymous says
Newborn is way to young to be left to cry. I always had an easier time with my babies when I waited until they were asleep to put them down. Are you talking about nighttime or daytime sleep? For daytime naps, some babies will only nap 45- mins to an hour at a time, feed and then nap again. For nighttime sleep, it would be normal for newborn to still wake every 3 hours to feed.
It’s tough in the early days. Why do you think he’s overfed? Is he sleeping in a bassinette or crib? Maybe elevating slightly will help. Sleep whenever he sleeps even if your house is a mess.
TiredMomAnon says
our pediatrician told us that he is overfed and should only be eating in ounces 2 to 2.5 times his body weight in pounds. He was eating about 22 ounces a day as of last week, and he should’ve been having more like 16 to 20. At this point he is approaching 25-28 ounces a day. we’ve been pushing the pacifier more, since at least some of this must be attributable just do a desire to suck. Our older kids were able to sleep about two hours at a time from the start, and were only feeding eight times a day, even though they were eating much less at each feeding. Because the naps are so short, I can’t get my own naps in, because I also need to eat and bathe and see my other children. My partner is now back at work, so I’m also doing all of the overnight feeds, only some of which are three hours apart. Last night I got maybe four hours non-consecutive.
Anonymous says
Can you get some more help with the older kids? Are they in childcare? Don’t feel guilty about leaving them in childcare full time or part time so you can have time with the baby and sleep.
Anonymous says
Another alternative is babywearing. My youngest would fall asleep in the Ergo and sleep through older siblings doing quietish activities like drawing, coloring, playdoh, legos.
Sarabeth says
Your partner can still do at least one overnight feed, even if he’s back at work. Doing one wakeup is not a lot to ask of him, and it will make a world of difference for you if you can get at least on 4-hour block each night.
Also, I agree that there’s a possibility this is reflux-related. How is he during feeds? Does he arch/fuss while eating? Reflux can definitely lead to overeating, because the milk/formula soothes their esophagus – but it’s a vicious cycle, because the overeating then makes the reflux worse. You might try napping in a Rock n Play or something like the Bjorn bouncer.
anon says
Our baby would only nap one sleep cycle if put down and would wake up and cry — but not because he was hungry (although he’d always eat if offered), because he was still so tired and didn’t know how to go back to sleep. We put him in a carrier to finish the nap for several months. He was bottle fed and our ped was pretty adamant about not overfeeding — if we’d fed every time he woke up he’d have been eating like 36 oz at a month old.
POSITA says
Have you tried putting him down swaddled in a RocknPlay in a dark room with loud white noise from a noise machine? You may need to nurse or rock him to sleep. Get him into a deep sleep before trying to lay him down.
Much of the sleep advice you see about drowsy but awake is for bigger babies. For a newborn, just see if you can get a couple of hours.
PhilanthropyGirl says
White noise was a life saver for us. We really liked our Sleep Sheep.
I also agree about getting him into a deep sleep before putting him down. We generally used a modified CIO, but not until baby was older. As newborn, my LO was just not ready for that. During day time naps, I often relied on our swing to get baby to sleep so my hands were free for a shower, a cup of coffee, or so I could lay down too.
Rest as much as you are able. Enlist other baby-rockers as necessary. And hang in there. Those early days are hard.
OCAssociate says
+1 on Rock N Play and white noise machine.
Also, you’re not supposed to do this, but my daughter slept in her swing for hours, so we let her do that.
Anonymous says
+2 to the white noise. But I wouldn’t get a sleep sheep. When the sound times off, sometimes they’ll wake up. Get a homedics sound spa noise machine and leave it on all night.
Best resource I’ve ever seen on sleep issues – preciouslittlesleep.com. Really good easy to read blog articles for babies at all stages.
Also, Happiest Baby on the Block. Swaddle that baby if you’re not already doing so.
And definitely try a rock and play or a swing, but keep using the crib from time to time as well if you can. My kiddo had a really rough transition to the crib after always being “cradled” and never flat on his back.
Good luck!
Anonymous says
+ 3 on the white noise. Our baby is quiet in the morning until the white noise is turn off and the second we turn it off she wails. I found Happiest Baby on the Block very very helpful.
HSAL says
I agree with POSITA that the “drowsy but awake” people are liars if they say it works for newborns. I literally held my daughter every time she was asleep for the first month (I know, safe sleep practices and all, but we do what we have to do to get some sleep). When she was a month, she started going in the rock and play swaddled at night and that worked really well, but I still held her (or wore her or stroller walks) for daytime naps. During my last month of leave I started laying her down when she slept during the day for short periods. She did get used to it a little, but daycare worked the most magic for her sleep. You’ll get through it.
Sarabeth says
I mean, it does work for some newborns. I’ve had one of each kind – first baby would not fall asleep unless held and rocked or bounced, second will just fall asleep in the Rock n Play. Unfortunately, there’s not anything you can do to make one kind of baby into the other kind.
Jax says
+1
I had to put my kids in their cribs completely knocked out (doing the hold-your-breath-ninja-drop) and if the transition was too jarring they woke up, started fussing and I had to pick them up and grudgingly rock for another 15 minutes. I could never put a sleepy newborn down, unless it was to nap in the swing. Nighttime was rough.
Don’t be afraid to use the pacifier at this stage! It’s normal for it to fall out and for the baby to wake up frustrated and looking for it–my theory is baby is going to wake up fussing whether it’s because of the pacifier or because s/he’s coming out of a sleep cycle anyway, so I don’t think the pacifier *causes* the wake up. My kids all had colic so we used everything at our disposal to get them knocked out and peaceful.
If your basinet has one of those shaking/vibrating features they are AWESOME at helping with the transition from your arms to no-longer-moving bed!
MDMom says
What about a swing? Also, not really safe sleep practices, but I used to get good naps by putting baby in carrier (ktan) and sleeping in recliner (I can’t roll, baby can’t fall, seems reasonable safe?).
Man this is a sleep deprived group today! My husband was on call this weekend and pager went off all night (it seemed). Took me back to the early months and oh I do not miss it. Hang in there!
Momata says
Same advice as others – “drowsy but awake” is a crock until they’re around 6 mos I think. I nurse/feed to sleep in a darkened room, with white noise, while swaddled, until then. (I also feed upon waking unswaddled with lights on and no white noise to kick off an EASY cycle. My theory is that they do most of their eating upon wakeup, but just suck to sleep.) Also look up the best way to hold a baby to get your arms out from underneath them without waking them. This was a TOTAL GAME CHANGER for me. I also second the advice to use a RNP for newborns, especially since it sounds like yours might suffer from some reflux.
Anon says
Re: paci. Look into the wubbanubs, those green pacis with stuffed animals attached. We lost pacis every night until finally pulling one of those out. They stay on the baby’s chest, so less likely to fall out, and once they get a little older, it’s way easier for them to find it and put it back in their mouths.
But second everyone else that RNP and holding/co-sleeping were the only ways mine slept until about 5-6 months. YMMV, but I was back at work and co-sleeping saved my sanity in a million ways. (I transitioned both of them to the crib around 10-12 months. It sucked, but sucked a LOT less than not getting sleep for 10-12 months.)
Walnut says
Rock and Play with vibration, pacifier, swaddle sleep sack, and white noise. Honestly, I think the white noise was more to help me sleep through the baby being a noisy sleeper. Also, if you can switch shifts at night with your husband, do that. I would go to sleep around 7 and he’d take care of wakings until about 1AM. It would buy me a glorious five to six hours of sleep.
Anonymous says
I’m sorry – this is so hard. I had a baby that wouldn’t sleep for more than an hour as a newborn and had to be held, by me (or as a distant second preference, my husband), whenever he slept. He also usually had to be walked around as he slept. With that experience in mind, it sounds as though your baby needs to be held and touched. The baby was used to be with you all the time, and is still adjusting to being “outside”. This will get better as he/she gets older. For mine, I just held him as much as I could and asked for help from others. My husband and I would hold him to get him to sleep. We would sleep on the recliner with him propped up with pillows. Was it the safest, no. But we literally needed to do whatever we could to get some sleep, for our own health and safety and his. Also, a rock n’ play was a lifesaver for us because it kept him in a position that felt more like being held. He really struggled to sleep flat on his back until he was about 3 months old. I really wish you good luck.
Spirograph says
My newborn has great sleeping skills, but they are only applicable if he is being held.
Major commiseration. I hate to advocate unsafe sleep practices, but I cosleep most of the night. We start off with baby in the bassinet, but once he wakes up the first time, and if he doesn’t go back to sleep within 5 min after being fed and put down again, he comes in bed with me. I have a 4 year sleep deficit at this point, so I’m not sitting up in a rocking chair trying to put him down at 15 min intervals when I know he’ll sleep great in my bed and I’ll be able to string more than 2 hours together. Baby’s head goes on my arm so he can nurse while we both fall asleep. Arm sticks out 90ish degrees from my body so I can’t possibly roll without major adjustment. I wake up a few times per night when he gets hungry and restless and roll over and switch him to the other side, and go back to sleep quickly. I am a pretty active sleeper without a baby, but I wake up every time in the exact same position I fell asleep in. I make sure to have the blankets tucked down around my waist so they can’t end up over the baby’s head. And I remind myself that literally millions and millions of babies have slept in the same bed as their mother (and the rest of the family for that matter) throughout history and today, and the overwhelming majority of them were just fine.
Fwiw, I had little trouble transitioning my 2nd to a crib around 3-4 months, and I’m planning to do the same this time. I think there’s really something to the “fourth trimester” idea…a lot of babies just are not ready to be detached from mom yet when they’re born.
Anonymous says
I had a premature baby with sleep apnea and the doctors at a large university hospital were not opposed to my co-sleeping (in the same bed) as they said it would encourage him to keep breathing. That said, I’d already coslept with my older and I knew I had that “bodily awareness” of the infant. My husband does not and he cannot sleep in the bed with our child if I am not there.
Anonymous says
Co-sleeping is not necessarily unsafe if done with a breastfed baby in non-smoking home (aka reduced risk of SIDS) – La Leche League has good info about how to cosleep safely. Safe cosleeping is much safer than being so tired that you fall asleep in the rocking chair while holding a baby.
Another R says
Want to also jump on the safe cosleeping bandwagon! There are resources online – read them, use them… better to plan to do it safely than to pass out on the couch with your baby and have him end up stuck between the cushions or something! Hair up if it’s long, form-fitting pjs, no blankets or pillows (or none near baby), these kinds of things!
NewMomAnon says
Sidelying nursing/cosleeping was a godsend and the only way I got more than 45 minutes of nap-time sleep for the first 3+ months. After 4 months (or is it 6?), sleep training.
-signed, the mom who once ran a red light while sleep-deprived, with baby in the car seat
Anonymous says
My kiddo hated swaddling. Have you tried putting him down without the swaddle?
Anonymous says
Mine too. My first looooved the swaddle. My second needed to fuss herself to sleep from day 1. I discovered this when I got so frustrated rocking/soothing/swaddling that I put her down and went to get a drink of water. By the time I got back in the room 1 or 2 minutes later, she was sound asleep.
ChiLaw says
We co-slept with the First Years Close and Secure cosleeper. It let baby lie right next to us, but prevented us from rolling onto her. She needed to be RIGHT there with us, and I would do anything for sleep.
lsw says
Whoops! Realized I posted this on Friday’s thread. Question for those of you who have a breastmilk stash – do you cycle out the frozen stuff once in a while? We haven’t had to dip into the stash much, so I wasn’t sure if at some point I should start thawing out the frozen and freezing fresh stuff. But I know the fresh milk is best so is that a bad solution? Any stash secrets I should be aware of?
HSAL says
I sent the prior day’s milk to daycare Tuesdays-Fridays, then I froze what I pumped on Friday (and any extra pump sessions over the weekend). On Mondays I sent the oldest bags to daycare. Fresh might be best but I figured there’s no point in freezing and not using it, especially since they say the composition changes to meet your baby’s needs.
lsw says
This totally makes sense. Thanks!
Em says
This is what we do, as well. I have about 175 ounces and none of it is more than 2 months old (baby is 8 months).
Betty says
I always froze the milk I pumped on Friday. On Monday, I cycled in older frozen milk and put the prior Friday’s frozen milk at the end of the line.
BKDC says
I don’t have a huge stash, but I pull from it for the Monday bottles. Baby seems to have no problem with it. I’m hesitant to let milk languish in our freezer too long. Just a personal preference. I might feel differently if I had a reliable chest freezer.
Katala says
I would generally freeze what I pumped on a Friday and use the oldest frozen milk on Mondays. I didn’t have a very big stash, so this worked to keep things from getting more than a few months old. I liked that he got the freshest milk most days, but the day it would have been 3 days old he just got frozen, and the Friday milk was frozen the same day.
The makeup of your milk changes as baby’s needs change, so I always felt it was best to try not to have very old milk in the freezer (unless it would just be for emergencies or to use up once baby was already eating a variety of foods – we ended up with so little frozen it didn’t really matter).
I bought a container for the freezer on amazon that held the frozen bags upright (I think it was an ice cube tub). Bags were laid down to freeze flat then “filed” in the container with the newest in the back. You’d need several containers for a big stash but 2 was enough for us. Made it very easy to make sure the oldest was used first, even if it was the nanny needing to thaw extra. Oh, and I froze 1-2oz bags in addition to full bottles so they could be thawed when just a little extra was needed.
lucy stone says
I am 8 weeks pp tomorrow so super new at this, but I’m an exclusive bottle feeder. I freeze most of what I pump and will pull out a frozen bottle to mix with fresh. I got all freaked out fresh was best so this way I can use up some of the older frozen and still give the benefits of current fresh.
H says
Yes, I cycled it. I think you are only supposed to keep it in the freezer for about 6 months? I think I did something similar to Katala about giving older frozen milk on Mondays.
(was) due in june says
Based on “fresh is best” and being lucky with supply and pumping, I ended up having a massive frozen stash which I donated to a milk bank (which required me to release my and my baby’s medical records, as well as get a blood test for lots of things). So even if you don’t end up giving your baby the frozen, it never has to go to waste.
Anonymous says
Ugh, terrible fight with my husband last night. I have never, ever seen him so angry, and I don’t totally understand why. Here’s my view of what happened. He spends a lot of weekend time away from the family. Sometimes it’s to have an afternoon with his friends, which I encourage. Sometimes it’s to help out his mom (we all come along sometimes, but they sometimes need mother-son time). Sometimes it’s because he thinks he needs to go into work. Sometimes he really does need to work. But often he just feels like he needs to do “more” work, even though literally no one else goes in on the weekend (I know because he often complains that the HVAC in the building isn’t on). I feel like we rarely do things as a family and honestly I don’t think he enjoys spending time with our kids (2 yo twins). He’s kind of said as much.
The fight started with him napping through what was supposed to be some family time yesterday. I woke him up at one point and asked if he wanted to come out for a walk (we had agreed earlier in the day that we’d all go for a walk after the kids’ nap). He said “no” I asked “are you sure?” and he said “yes, I do not want to go for a walk.” And went back to sleep. I was kind of miffed because here I was again on my own with the kids after we’d agreed we’d do something together. But later in the evening, after the kids were in bed, he seemed like he was annoyed with me. I asked what was up and he said he was upset that I’d gone on the walk without him! I said “but you said you didn’t want to go” and he said that he was upset that I’d just gone anyway, that he might have wanted to do something other than a walk. He didn’t say “I’m not up for a walk, but I’d be up for something else” he just said “no” and I’d given him two chances to answer!
This led to me saying that I feel like I’m on my own with the kids a lot on the weekends. He got upset because he feels like he’s not off doing fun things and I’m saying he should hang out with me instead of doing things that have to get done, like helping his mom or going to work. In any one instance I totally get it, but I feel like there’s a point where you’re consistently choosing other things over family, it suggests that spending time with family is low priority. I feel like it’s leftover time.
This is part of a bigger issue where I feel like he assumes that I’ll be there to cover kid and home stuff and he can run the rest of his life as he wants. But I feel like the kids come first. If one of the kids needs to go to the doctor, for example, he’ll say “I can’t do it – I’m too busy at work.” And I don’t doubt he’s busy. But it’s not like the kid then doesn’t need to go to the doctor. If I were on travel or really, honestly, had a reason that I could not go, he would make it work. But when it’s day-to-day stuff, he always feels like he “can’t” do the family stuff.
He also says that I don’t believe that he supports my career, but I feel like his actions show he doesn’t really, not when it’s in competition with his own. I’m the one who gets home to relieve the nanny in the evening, leaving him to work as late as he needs to every night. But I also get up with the kids in the morning, meaning I don’t have that unfettered time. If I want to go to bed early so I can get up early and do some work, he gets annoyed that I’m not spending more time with him. He’s offered to get home early one night a week so I can work late, but he wants to plan it every week so it works with his schedule. I feel like I need to ask each week for the thing he gets every day.
So all of this came up last night. And the best I can understand is that he’s angry that I think the work is unequal. I’m now hurt and angry that he doesn’t hear that and say “I’m sorry you feel that way — let’s see if we can figure out who’s doing what and be sure that we’re both doing our part” He hears me saying “you’re not doing enough.” And that’s how I feel, but I’m willing to hear him out – maybe there are things he does that I miss. He just gets unreasonable when he’s angry. He said “well we dont’ bring in equal money but I’m not complaining.” I earn 47% of the household income. And in the past I’ve earned more like 75% of our income.
I feel like this is totally normal, typical stuff that working families deal with. And I can see his side, not as well as I see my own (and he would probably cast all this differently if he were the one writing), but I see both sides. What I don’t see is how this made him so incredibly angry. He was literally shaking he was so angry. He was still furious this morning. He said he was wondering if he’d made a mistake in marrying me. He said that I make our home unwelcoming and it’s no surprise he doesn’t want to spend time there. He doesn’t mean these things. We had a terrible fight in August when he said he didn’t know if he could stay married to me, but we worked things out and I don’t think we were actually on the brink of divorce. And things had been incredibly good. We had talked just that morning about how good we are together. He will say these things when he’s angry and he knows how hurtful they are (everyone in my family is divorced so divorce is very real to me; no one in his family has ever gotten divorced so these things just don’t carry the same weight for him — but he knows how much they hurt me and he’s said in the past he shouldn’t say things like this, but when he gets angry, out they come.)
I just don’t know how I’m going to get any work done today. I don’t know how to move on from this. I think marriage counseling makes sense because overall I do think our marriage is really good. I just think we have these toxic fights once in awhile. But in the meantime, I wish I knew how long he’d be this angry. Also he tends to carry grudges and these fights build up and come back over and over again. So in five years, we’ll have a fight and this fight will come up. He just doesn’t let go. I’m so frustrated because I feel like it’s so hard to bring anything up, but I don’t know how to make it better.
Not sure if I’m looking for advice, or just trying to work through this. Sorry for the novel.
Anonymous says
I have two year old twins. He’s being an immature jerk. If he wanted to do something with you that wasn’t a walk, it was his responsibility as an adult to suggest it. But it sounds like there are more fundamental problems – I strongly suggest couples counselling. Gottman trained counsellor worked for us.
Unless you have vastly different commute, I’d suggest that you switch to one of you doing drop off in the morning and the other doing pick ups. If I were you, I’d go with pick ups. If he brings up the equal money thing – offer to drop off once a week.
You deserve more and he needs to step up to the plate.
Lurker says
I’m sorry. This is all so hard. Just a few minor communication points I have picked up over the years when I have had disagreements with my husband. My husband is a very literal communicator. If I ask him if he wants to do something, he doesn’t hear that as me saying I want to do it. If I say “do you want to go for a walk?” he thinks I don’t want to go for one but am asking him because I want to do something he would enjoy. We got in a big fight once about him never wanting to walk the dog with me. He had no idea I wanted him to come. He thought me asking was just asking if he wanted to tag along and he would rather do what he was doing. So then of course I get more hurt because I want him to WANT to do these things. But we can’t always control that. So now I say, I’m walking the dog at 7 and I’d really like it if you come with me. And he does. Then, the more he does stuff and finds it enjoyable, the more apt he is to suggest it.
This also came out on road trips when I had to go to the bathroom. I’d say “wanna stop here?” or “that exit looks convenient” and he would have no clue I was saying “I have to go the bathroom.” No I say “I need to pee, how about there?” I was getting so upset and hurt over some stuff for nothing. It was just that we were having two very different conversations.
Also, parenting is hard. Could it be that he expected it to be easier and more fun like the parenting you see in commercials and less the nitty gritty of tantrums, diapers and cleaning? My husband’s communication style also means he doesn’t fake happiness and he doesn’t apologize unless he actually thinks he did something wrong. On the plus side, I don’t get any half baked “sorry you are hurt” fake apologies but sometimes even that would make me happy. On the other side, when he does apologize, sometimes days after a fight, he is so sincere and I can believe it. He’s not just saying it to make me happy. We do better with action items instead of mea culpas. Who cares if he is wrong by not wanting to spend time with you and trying to skirt duties? What really matters is if he stops doing it. Then that turns into a more concrete, this is what I need to be happy discussion.
The threats of divorce are not right though and sound like they border on emotional abuse. Abuse is a strong word but it sounds like at times he is purposely trying to hurt you and that needs to stop.
Anon in NOVA says
Jeez. I wish I had more to say, I’m so sorry. I’ve lived it, but I’m not married to that person anymore (which is not great to hear, I know.) I honestly read most of this assuming you don’t work, and when I read that you do I am so shocked that he is acting this way! (not that it would be at all OK for him to act this way if you were a SAHM)
Marriage counseling may be a good idea. He needs to hear from a third party that it is NOT ok to tell people you may have made a mistake marrying them, or throwing around the D-word, unless it’s followed with “so I got a lawyer”. That is manipulative and hurtful. There are some lines that people shouldn’t cross, no matter how angry they are, and this is clearly one for you. I’m so sorry. Yes, these are normal relationship/family struggles, but his reaction to them is not normal, and needs outside intervention. In my last marriage, I found it helped/took him back a bit when I would calmly be like “wow. That is really really mean. That really hurt my feelings.” It feels child-like to say, but sometimes that’s what’s necessary when someone is acting childish themselves. It’s hard to continue to be mean to someone that just said “you really hurt my feelings”.
I recommend some of the “default parent” articles that have been posted on here in the past, they may help you figure out how to phrase things when you’re in counseling or having conversations with him.
Good luck. I’m sorry this is going on.
H says
I agree with anonymous at 11:10. You shouldn’t let anyone treat you that way. You are rationalizing his behavior. Two things jump out at me: 1) You are doing the majority of the day to day kid stuff and he is not supportive . and 2) his behavior during this fight is unacceptable. Saying he thinks he made a mistake in marrying you? Um no. Not cool. At all. It doesn’t matter if he was angry. That is not cool. Oh my gosh, I’m just really upset for you right now.
It’s up to you what you want to do but no one deserves to be treated like that. He’s only thinking of himself and not considering his family. You’ll have to make the decision if you want to subject your kids to their father’s negativity.
Jax says
This.
So, 2 year old twins sounds like a big challenge. Throw in a clingy, aging mother. Add in a job he must not feel secure in (just guessing from the extra hours he’s working in a dead no-HVAC office) and you have a perfect storm brewing for your husband. BUT–it’s his responsibility to handle it without taking it out on you.
I’m all for cold hard reality, especially when divorce threats are tossed around because divorce isn’t going to save him. For you, divorce is going to have a small impact on your day-to-day life because YOU’RE ALREADY DOING EVERYTHING. You relieve the nanny, you modified your work to care for kids, you figured out how to get ready in the mornings with babies hanging off you. You’re already 1/2 step away from parenting alone.
He, however, will have to step up and do everything during times that he has the kids. No more weekends dealing with mom when he has his hands full with the twins! Can’t work late 1/2 the week (or every other week, or whatever custody you would settle on) because, kids! It only gets worse as they get older and have school schedules, friends, sports, etc. to work around.
I’m going on 13 years with my husband, and we’ve talked about divorce twice. I used to be your husband and play silly, “I never should have married you!!!!” games. Then I realized that divorce would mean:
1. Selling the house (too much yard, too much $ for just me and the kids)
2. 50/50 custody because we’ll both stay in town and he will fight to the death for his kids
3. Daycare arrangements to fit both our schedules, and probably more $$$
4. I can never, ever stop working. There’s no partner to fall back on if the kids need a parent at home, or I lose my job, etc.
5. Lots of holidays without my kids
6. I will never, EVER get him out of my life. At our grandchildren’s birthday parties, he’ll be there. On Christmas, my grown kids will leave after 2 hours because they have to stop at Dad’s, too. I’ll be 80 years old and he’ll still be there, in my life, because we’re linked by our children.
Only you know the particular details of what a divorce would look like, and I think it’s fair to calmly share it with him. “I’m not sure if you realize, but if we divorce…” My husband did it to me, and I have to tell you, it’s incredibly effective at waking an idiot up. :)
OP says
The thing is, he doesn’t mean it. He knows all of this. When we’re not fighting, he’s clear that divorce is just not an option in his mind. In that way, I think it makes it easier for him to say it because it’s like threatening to run off to Mars. I should clarify that my MIL isn’t clingy. She has a physical disability and also had some serious losses (my FIL and BIL within three years of each other) so I don’t at all begrudge the time my husband spends with her. And they need alone time because they’re the only ones (besides family halfway across the country) left who remember my FIL who died before my husband and I met.
Anonymous says
Can you try “I feel sad when you talk about divorce. I want us to have a long marriage like your parents did.” when he references divorce? Might help him connect with the idea that even talking about divorce really hurts your feelings.
Parents of multiples have a slightly higher divorce rate than average so it’s worth trying to address these issues now.
mascot says
May I also suggest some rules of engagement that you agree upon when you are calm? For us, that means no name calling during arguments and we do not invoke divorce talk. Not as a joke, not as a threat, not as an escape, not at all. Like a poster up-thread said, unless it’s followed by a disclosure that you hired a lawyer, it is a completely forbidden word in our house. We still have our share of heated arguments, but these rules have prevented us from doing lasting harm to one another.
anon says
Totally agree with mascot – I’d bring it up in a totally unemotional intellectual way – Can we make divorce a no-go threat? I know you are saying it in anger, but when you mention it, it automatically puts our relationship into different territory and puts one of us in a position of vulnerability. Plus it’s one of the few threats you really can’t take back. This is something my mom told my husband and I when we were getting married and I will absolutely pass it along to my kids and engaged friends.
Less directed at OP and more a general observation based on some recent posts: I’m also totally into the ideal of what dual career marriages can be when they are perfect, but reality doesn’t always seem to pan out that way, even when we have loving, supportive spouses who theoretically want to do their part. But if the perfect partnership isn’t how it’s working out in your marriage, and you want to prioritize making the relationship work, at some point maybe you do have to consider making more significant sacrifices in your career/elsewhere. So many of our spouses (and so many of us) didn’t grow up with two working parents and it’s just so hard for some of the men I know to break away from the subconscious idea that they’ll get the same life that their fathers had growing up. No matter how great they are otherwise. It’s just really tough stuff.
Jax says
I think you are sweet and very understanding, and he is blessed to have you.
It is absolutely possible for you both to work AND share childcare duties. I can call my husband and say, “Can you pick up the kids?” and 90% of the time he’ll respond with, “Yeah, no problem.” My husband will adjust his work-at-home days around orthodontist appointments, he will wrestle the 6 year old into ballet tights/leotard and take her to dance class on Saturday morning, he will make dinner *with vegetables!* when he gets home first, he will run the vacuum cleaner/dishwasher/scrub the toilet. We’re partners and equals in both work AND childcare, and no, it wasn’t always like this. It took lots of serious talks and arguments and a willingness to work together as a team.
We still fight. (We just fought about how much time he spends mouth-breathing in front of video games late at night instead of hanging out with me, actually.) But we don’t escalate it and threaten divorce, or spew things that we know will hurt the other person and not care.
You’re sweet, you’re incredibly understanding, just don’t let him hurt you with his words like that. You’re worth a lot more than that!
OP says
You totally hit the nail on the head with this: “it’s just so hard for some of the men I know to break away from the subconscious idea that they’ll get the same life that their fathers had growing up.” My MIL worked, but only once the kids were in school and her career always came in second to my FIL’s. Also she’s from that generation of women who felt like their jobs had to fit around their household duties, and that it was up to them to make it work. I think my husband ultimately feels like his role is to (1) bring in money; (2) mow the lawn and take out the trash; (3) be a guiding father (as opposed to a hands-on, dirty diapers kind — although he has changed his share of diapers); and (4) investigate noises in the night, and protect the family if anything dangerous did actually get into the house. He pours all his efforts into these things, and he does them really well. But I’m working, too, and in a way that’s not at all secondary, not in money and not in hours. I think one of the things that got him so angry is that he’s felt really overloaded at work lately and so he was upset that I was then telling him that all that effort wasn’t enough. But sometimes I feel like it’s that he’s directing his effort at the wrong thing.
Anonymous says
I want you to imagine what happens when your kids finally anger your husband. Like, truly anger him. Purposefully, with a wicked four year old’s smile, toss his smart phone into the Grand Canyon. Because if this is the depth of his anger and the way he treats you I can’t imagine you’d let him treat your kids this way.
The next time he threatens divorce, I’d take him up on it.
Lorelai Gilmore says
This stuff is so, so hard and I feel for you. I have some practical suggestions for how to help each other – but first I just want to give you a hug and tell you that it’s going to be okay.
Other thoughts. First, I think you should take him up on the pre-scheduled late nights. My DH has the option to work late every Tuesday and Thursday, and I have the option on Monday-Wednesday. We don’t always work late and we sometimes have to renegotiate the days for specific work issues, but those are our default rules. It’s incredibly helpful to have default rules to minimize the amount of negotiation. I also think that it would be good for him to be solo with the kids a few nights a week – it may help him to feel like he has more stake in the kids. I know that my DH sometimes feels like there is no time at all, and so if I’m around, then there’s an adult to cover the childcare and he can and should do other things because it’s all a zero-sum game. You may have more success getting him to do solo care than family time, especially while the kids are little and a ton of work.
Second, my DH does much better with the kids when we schedule adventures. I know I’ve said this before but he is not into family time at home, not really. He would much rather go to a museum, park, zoo, hike, etc. At some point later, when you get past this fight, you might work creatively to brainstorm family time options that he thinks would actually be fun. Two is tough but you’re getting closer to the point where you can do more things.
Third, that fight sounds brutal. I think marriage counseling is probably a really good idea for exactly this situation.
OP says
Thanks for all the support and suggestions. I’ve emailed a therapist and hopefully we can get an appointment soon.
Anonymous says
I just want to say that I’ve been there. My husband is an immature, thoughtless a$$hole sometimes.
10% of the time he’s pretty amazing — surprises me with his thoughtfulness and generosity to taking great care of our son and the collective needs of our family
80% of the time he’s great — a solid, devoted partner who contributes equally
9% of the time he is noticeably a little selfish and/or antisocial with my family or something
and about 1% of the time he’s an absolute jerk. this is when he has the capacity to say awful things or just be completely unreasonable and uncaring. I sometimes think I have post traumatic stress disorder from a few of the times he’s gone off the rails — I’m always just a little bit afraid when he starts to get a bit testy about something that he’s going to go back to that place. It’s pretty rare, but I get a glimpse of it at least every 3 months or so.
I could go on and on about what I think the root of the problem is, but I’ve decided that the 1% is just what I have to endure to stay in a mostly good marriage (for now). I know the people here who are telling you that you shouldn’t put up with this are doing their best to be supportive and look out for you — their motivations are surely sincerely very much to give you advice that will be helpful to you. But I also know there is only so much you can do to try to improve his behavior, and sometimes counseling is not an option or isn’t all that successful (my husband and I went once for about 5 sessions and didn’t get much out of it. now he isn’t interested in going again and probably wouldn’t make himself vulnerable enough to tell a therapist how he really feels anyway). So when people say that this is unacceptable for him to treat you that way, I just want you to know that I understand, but I also know you have to do what you have to do–what you think is best–for you and for your kids. That doesn’t mean you have to stay in the marriage, that just means that I think only you know what’s best, and while other people want to defend you, they aren’t there and they can’t make that decision for you. And if they haven’t been through it, they definitely don’t know.
It’s so hard when someone we love and someone we need in our lives becomes someone we can’t get through to. I don’t think there’s anything lonelier in this world than feeling cut off from the love of your spouse and your partner in life even for just a few hours. I agree with so many of these other posters who are telling you to tell him how hurt you are by his actions. Appeal to his sympathy in any way you can, but try not to criticize, even though that’s what he deserves. It’s very possible he’s depressed, deeply insecure, or something else that’s causing him enough pain that he’s spitting it out back at you. I’m really sorry you are dealing with this and I really hope that counseling helps him be a better partner to you.
Closet Redux says
This is the nicest.
OP says
Thanks. Yeah, I’d say that 40% of the time my husband is amazing. Another 40% he’s pretty good. And then 15% is roll my eyes “really? you can’t put your dishes IN the dishwasher?” and then 4.5% he’s “ugh, not thrilled” and that last 0.5% can just be lashing out, obnoxious. And on the whole, I’ll take the 0.5% for the 40% amazing. But that 0.5% still s*cks.
Wow says
“I feel like this is totally normal, typical stuff that working families deal with.”
Gently, no — this is not normal. I would like to believe that most working couples have a much more equitable distribution of childcare/household work than you and your husband do. Your husband needs to step up big time, and he doesn’t get to feel angry for not pulling his weight. I’m really sorry that you’re dealing with this.
Mrs. Jones says
+1
JayJay says
Agreed. I think my husband and I both get frustrated sometimes when work/life demands force unequal distributions of parenting for any given time. But we don’t take those out on each other, and we’ve never threatened divorce as a means of arguing. I agree with the rules of engagement suggested above, because I would not tolerate being treated like that, regardless of how angry my husband was.
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.
Anon says
+2. We’ve had really hard moments, but it sounds like your husband wants you to make life more fun for him right now. And he’s feeling stuck, but in doing so, is sticking you with everything. If he lost his dad and brother in a short period of time, he also may be reeling from “is this all there is?” You work, slog through child rearing, and then you die. The “divorce” talk might be escapist on his part. Think therapy sounds like a great place to start – good luck.
NewMomAnon says
+1000. This is not normal conflict. It sounds like he is dealing with a mental health challenge and you (with the kids) are caught in the crossfire.
I don’t have great advice on how to deal with a spouse’s mental health issues, but here are a few:
Get therapy for yourself.
Don’t expect too much from marital counseling – he may not be capable of real progress until he recovers, and you may find the sessions very painful while he is still under water.
Consider some time spent living apart so you can get some safe space from his illness.
Backfill with outside resources like nannies, house cleaning services, laundry services, etc.
Journal.
Find reasons to be grateful every day.
Regularly make time for people who think you are amazing, and people you find inspiring.
Hugs.
ChiLaw says
Oh this makes me sad for you. The thing that makes me saddest is the *way* he’s fighting with you. Your spouse should NOT be mean to you; your spouse should NOT hold grudges; your spouse should NOT try to hurt you in a fight.
I don’t really have good advice — therapy sounds smart? — but I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, and I think it stinks.
PhilanthropyGirl says
Some exciting news on a Monday morning. I’ve been given the opportunity to make a job switch into a specialty in within my field – at my alma mater! I’m excited to be going back, and excited to be taking my family with me.
I’m really stumped on wardrobe. I’m currently in a very business casual (to the point most people don’t care what you wear as long as it isn’t jeans or sneakers) environment – which has led to wardrobe sloppiness and lack of style on my part. I’m not sure of a good direction to take my wardrobe, although I know it needs some updates.
During my interview I saw a lot of men in shirts with ties, but no jackets – although the institution was on fall break and I wondered if it were perhaps a little more casual than usual. The only woman I saw in a jacket was the President of the institution. All other women appeared to be in slacks/thin sweater/cardigan. The community is northern (ie, cold and snowy) and extremely rural. My position would be mostly internal, working with faculty, and as far as I can tell would only occasionally require business formal attire.
I’d be happy to live in cords, sweaters and boots, but feel it may be too casual. Is there a good step up from that?
Anon in NOVA says
You could do nice, cable knit sweaters over button ups with slacks and flats? and some sort of statement necklace?and save the boots for walking in and out of the building in the snow? (for example, I’m thinking Navy and white plaid flannel, navy cable knit sweater, grey ankle pants, flats, and a statement necklace over the sweater?) Maybe blazers in comfortable material so you still look polished and have the comfort/warmth of a sweater?
I find it hard to make boots look very professional, that may just be me, though.
PhilanthropyGirl says
OO – I love a good cable knit sweater – sounds gorgeous!
What kind of comfortable materials do you think of for blazers? I just always feel uncomfortable in a blazer.
H says
http://outfitposts.com/2016/05/outfit-posts-white-crocheted-sweater-brown-pants-leopard-wedges.html
Closet Redux says
ooh, what is this blog? i am totally on the hunt for real working women inspiration– this looks like a good one.
HSAL says
I’m a big fan. She had a baby last year? maybe 2014? and had a GREAT maternity capsule that I liberally stole from.
Katala says
+1 love the maternity stuff and work stuff. I haven’t found another blog like hers with real outfits that hasn’t been taken over by sponsored posts and super-staged “work” outfit pics.
Closet Redux says
Agreed. I used to really like ExtraPetite back when she was DIY-ing things she bought at Loft and Gap, but now it’s basically an ezine for higher-end fashion. She looks amazing but no way am I sitting at my cubicle in those fancy outfits she wears.
PhilanthropyGirl says
What a great outfit! Thanks for the blog link
Meg Murry says
I wouldn’t go too crazy on updating your whole wardrobe until you find out what your individual office is actually like. In my experience, a lot of colleges have terrible issues with HVAC, and you may find that you are in the office next to the boiler room, where it never gets below 75 degrees once the heat kicks on, and you will wear short sleeves all year round, or vice versa and you are at the end of the run and freeze all winter without tons of layers.
Could you use this as an opportunity to do a capsule update first – go through and find a week’s worth of clothes you could wear or want to buy, and then go from there?
Rather than cords, sweaters and boots, could you go to slacks? Or perhaps wool skirts, tights and tall boots would be better in the snow than hems that would get wet? When I worked at a place that was freezing, I wore a lot of dresses where I would layer a long sleeved tee under them, thick leggings and knee high boots, and a soft jacket (ponte, etc) or thick cardigan over them. It looked like I was dressing up, but it was actually comfy like wearing pajamas, and the boots meant I could run errands across campus without changing shoes 10 times a day.
PhilanthropyGirl says
I’d love to move into a pencil skirt/tights/sweater look. I used to wear dresses all the time – do you have a favorite that worked well for the layering you describe?
Any good recommendations for a pencil skirt that works well on a tall, full-figured hourglass?
Meg Murry says
The dresses I wore most with that look were probably the Land’s End Ponte Sheath in a solid color, and a dress I picked up off the Dillard’s clearance rack that is a geometric pattern in black on a solid colored background. Then I could make my base layers, boots and jacket black, but still have some color in there in the dress.
I’ve never been able to pull off the pencil skirt look myself, and I’m not good at adding another piece to have to coordinate, so I don’t have any recommendations there. However, I’d note that when I say “wool pencil skirt” what I’m really meaning is probably more along the lines of “heavy, winter appropriate fabric skirt” whether or not it’s actually wool – so something thick and substantial fabric.
For an hourglass figure you could probably also look at skirts with a slight A-line, perhaps that would not require tailoring?
PhilanthropyGirl says
Thanks, Meg Murray – those are great suggestions!
Sarabeth says
I’ve worked at a college that meets your description. As a professor, I absolutely wore cords/sweaters/boots as my daily uniform. However, the senior admins tended to go for, if not suits, then more clearly business casual stuff. I’m sure there’s a lot of variation campus to campus, but I think sweaters plus wool pants plus professional boots would be a safe option. And then mix in the more casual pants/boots if it feels right once you are on campus.
And yes, depending how often you are outside, either ankle-length pants (with ankle boots in winter) or high boots with skirts may be better than boot-cut pants. I had to walk across campus to my classrooms multiple times a day, and longer pants got gross pretty quickly.
PhilanthropyGirl says
This is a good reminder – I remember battling the soggy pant leg as a student. This would have been long enough ago that fashion-wise no one was wearing tights, or ankle pants. Sounds like a couple of fashionable trends that could really work well.
GCA says
Ooh, exciting, congratulations! I also attended a university in a snowy northern clime. My guess is your interview observations are pretty par for the course for college administration. Most female academics erred on the side of sweaters and skirts/ slacks with boots, for outerwear a long puffy trench, that sort of thing – agree it depends on how much walking vs driving you might be doing (going out to lunch?). And the heating was definitely on overdrive during the winter.
PhilanthropyGirl says
Thanks, GCA!
There really isn’t much “going out to lunch” unless you count the dining hall – it’s that rural!
Sounds like layers are going to be the best route – sweaters with something lighter underneath in the event of overly ambitious heating!
anon mom says
Daycare question: our daycare makes us pay for Federal holidays – is that common? It is a day off for teachers and staff, but I am pretty sure that they do not get paid for that day.
CHJ says
We pay a monthly rate for daycare, regardless of how many days are in the month. So that does mean we are paying for days when the center is closed for holidays. Is that what you mean? Or do they give you the option to bring your kids on Federal holidays but you have to pay extra for it?
mascot says
Totally common at the full-time centers we used. We also paid for weeks that the daycare was closed for holiday breaks. You aren’t getting charged more since the tuition is calculated with those closures in mind. It’s easier for them from a cash flow and accounting perspective and people were also used to paying on a weekly/monthly schedule.
HSAL says
We pay the same rate weekly no matter what days we’re there or not, but our daycare is only closed for Thanksgiving (the actual day, not Friday), Christmas (Day not Eve), New Year’s Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, and Labor Day. I really hope the staff is getting paid for those days. I imagine closing for the other federal holidays is regional?
Closet Redux says
Yes, we pay weekly and the rate is the same for weeks that include federal holiday closures. I think that’s pretty common.
Anon says
We pay for the full week even if it includes federal holidays, bad weather days, or staff development days. The teachers and staff are paid for those days though. I always thought it just came down to ease of budgeting.
Em says
Yes, we pay for holidays the daycare is closed (and our’s is closed a lot more than the standard – Columbus Day, Black Friday, NYE, and Presidents Day).
Navy Attorney says
DD is in an in-home, and other DD is in a preschool. We pay the same rate regardless of holidays. I don’t know why at the in-home; at the preschool they have to pay overhead (rent, utilities, salaries) regardless.
NewMomAnon says
Had a nasty run-in with the neighbor in the next door apartment about a door closing noise that “woke him up” (at 3 pm on Sunday). It led to him pounding on the wall between our apartments for a few minutes, and then a completely off-the-rails multi-page typed letter slid under my door, in which he lays out in minute detail his observations about the inner workings of my apartment based on the noises he’s heard, including insinuating that I was a bad mom because my daughter wakes up multiple times a night (he noted that he can also hear me “shushing” her). Also said he’s not sure why I don’t want to be social with him because all he wants to be “welcoming” (he’s gay, that isn’t a sexual invite but it’s still bizarre).
I had e-mailed building management after the initial episode, and then gave them a copy of the letter and talked with them this morning. They are sending in maintenance folks to do whatever they can, and they were definitely sympathetic. I guess he sent them close to a dozen e-mails as well.
I’m really rattled and don’t feel safe in the apartment anymore. Are there other apartment dwellers who have dealt with intrusive neighbors? Are there noise reduction strategies that I can implement? I hate (hate hate hate) that he can hear what goes on in my daughter’s bedroom, but flipping the bedrooms would be challenging (kiddo would have access to a door to the porch and an attached bathroom if we flipped the bedrooms, and both of those things make me nervous).
Anonymous says
So sorry you’re having to deal with this.
Make sure her room as a rug (Ikea has tons of cute kids ones for cheap) and add a couple of acoustic wall panels – these ones are paintable so maybe you and your daughter could have fun painting pictures on them.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-1-125-in-x-24-in-x-48-in-Paintable-Fabric-Rectangle-Acoustic-Sound-Absorbing-Wall-Panels-2-Pack-02513/205212648
NewMomAnon says
Thank you. The room is carpeted already; would rugs on top of the carpet help? I might hang a big blanket on the wall and shift the big kid bed from the shared wall to the interior wall to blunt the wake up noise.
I wish he understood how scary and intrusive this is for me. I think my daughter and I actually make great neighbors – except for a couple 30 second wake ups at night, there is no activity along our shared wall from 8 pm until 6:30 am. No TVs, no radios, no alarm clocks, no parties, no s*x, just a sleeping toddler.
anon says
I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. If he thinks he has a legitimate beef about a normal noise waking him up at 3pm, and this is how he responds to said beef, I would assume he’s not quite right in the head. You probably can’t please him, so try not to take it personally. Just do what you can to preserve your privacy, keep the management in the loop, and keep your distance from him.
Closet Redux says
One of several reasons families end up moving to the ‘burbs. Ugh.
CHJ says
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I hate neighbor disputes, and this one sounds particularly creepy. The fact that he is keeping a note of what you do in your apartment is extremely intrusive.
I agree on the acoustic sound panels – see if you can make your building manager buy them and install them. You can also hang a rug from the wall as a tapestry for an extra buffer. Ultimately, though, it is this creepy dude’s responsibility to mute the sound from within his own apartment if he is so disturbed by it. I would tell the management company to tell him that he is not to contact you again under any circumstances, and if he has a problem with the noise, he can go through them.
And if you don’t feel safe, moving is always an option. Can you move to another unit in your building? If so, I’d press for the management company to let you do that with concessions (no increase in rent for a nicer unit, for example). And if not, you could move elsewhere and tell them you want out of the lease with no penalty.
NewMomAnon says
I actually live in a unit in a condo building – my landlord owns just this one unit, so no luck on shifting to another unit. I think I’ll sit tight for a while and see how this goes down. My lease is up in April and it would be challenging/disruptive to move on short notice during the busiest time of my work cycle.
CHJ says
Ugh sorry to hear it. My worst intrusive neighbors ever were when I rented a unit in a small condo building. There’s something about the ownership and close quarters that can bring out the worst in people!
Closet Redux says
What about a white noise machine in your daughter’s room? I used to see a therapist whose office was in a very old building with probably not-that-great sound proofing. When she had a patient in the room she flipped on the little sound machine. Would your daughter tolerate white noise while she’s in her bedroom?
NewMomAnon says
We already use a white noise machine. I’ve seen therapists offices use little noise cancelling machines….maybe I’ll look into that.
lsw says
UGH!!! I have no great suggestions but only commiseration – our neighbor is INSANE and has called animal control on our (15 year old, blind, completely passive) dog for peeing in our own yard. They stopped coming out because she’s, well, crazy, so she took us to court – twice! – with a citizen’s complaint. That got thrown out both times, but not before my husband and I both had to call off work, front the $200 fine which eventually got refunded to us, and (in my case) stress like a MFer. She’s also called other city organizations on us, repeatedly puts notes in our mailbox, and is otherwise a crazy person. We’re homeowners so I guess we’re just in it forever. Anyway, sorry to rant on your parade, but I have been there, it’s awful and so stressful, and I really, really hope it doesn’t escalate for you.