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Rookie mom says
First-time mom looking for advice. My six-week-old baby has been sleeping through the night this week, seven or eight hours at a time. The pediatrician has said we don’t need to wake her up to eat, given her normal weight gain and full diapers. The trade-off seems to be that she won’t sleep during the day — maybe two or three naps that last half an hour or so, but not the longer ones that other babies take. As a result, she’s sleeping about ten hours total every day, not the 14-18 that sound more typical/are recommended. She’s usually taking naps in her Snoo, occasionally on my chest or her dad’s.
Particularly this week, she’s spent almost every waking moment nursing, which I imagine is gearing up for a six-week growth spurt. We’re nursing on an almost hourly basis during the day, but not doing any nursing overnight.
I guess those may be two separate questions: should I be concerned that she isn’t napping during the day? And is there anything to worry about with a kid who eats so constantly during the day? I’m fine nursing her on demand while I’m on leave, but she’ll be in daycare starting in late May, and I don’t want that transition to be made more difficult if that schedule isn’t possible then. But surely this is growth-related and her bigger stomach will slow things down by then, right? Thanks so much for any wisdom.
Anon says
My daughter was exactly like this. I believe it’s totally normal – if she’s not eating overnight she will eat a lot during the day. And a lot of babies don’t take long naps in a crib. She’s getting a lot more sleep than you realize when she’s sleeping on your chest or in you arms. Around 3 months my daughter started taking crib naps, but they didn’t last longer than 30 minutes until she dropped to two naps around 6 months.
My daughter is now 2 and still an amazing sleeper (12-13 hours at night and a 1.5 hour nap) so definitely enjoy this and be grateful for it! The end of May is a looong way off in baby land, so I wouldn’t borrow trouble worrying about the daycare transition now.
Anonymous says
This sounds totally normal to me. And yes the nursing all the time is a growth spurt. It may be hard to believe but your baby will be a completely different baby by May!! They change so quickly in the first few months. Don’t worry too much about schedules or adapting to daycare at this point. They are quick learners and very adaptable.
Anonso says
+1
anon says
I totally agree that she is going to to want to eat a bunch during the day, but getting her to nap more would be good too. I would fill her up so she should be full and then pop her in a stroller for a morning walk around 8:30 or 9 AM, assuming she wakes up around 6-7 AM. Getting that first nap in seems to set the rhythm for the day and mine always conked out in the stroller.
NYCer says
I was going to recommend trying a stroller nap too.
Anne says
This. My understanding is that it’s better to do a full sleep cycle of 45 minutes or more if possible so getting her in the habit of a longer nap in the AM may help.
AwayEmily says
+1 to a stroller or carrier nap. That was one of the few surefire ways we could guarantee a nap longer than 30 minutes at that age. My kids were similar to yours — good night sleepers and crap day sleepers. At the advice of our pediatrician, we also tried spacing feeds out a bit more during the day so she’d eat more at one sitting and not just snack (in the hopes it would help with longer naps). Not really sure if it worked or not…she DID eventually start taking longer naps, but I have no idea if that contributed. It did make my life somewhat easier, though.
blueridge29 says
Stoller/carrier naps particularly in the afternoon outside worked well for my kid at that age. Great night sleeper, but I do recall the daytime naps took a little while longer to figure out. Also, I think the outside air helped kiddo fall asleep and a little sun, or clouds, always made me feel better. Good luck!
Katy says
+1
anon says
Put daycare out of your mind entirely. Don’t even start worrying about baby’s schedule etc in relation to daycare until maybe a week out. It will be so different by then, there’s no point pre-worrying.
I find the sleep mildly more concerning, though your count of sleep time may be way off. The little ones are pretty good at sneaky catnaps. But if you’re really sure there’s that much wake time, it might be worth mentioning to the ped if you haven’t. It’s possible baby is being kept awake by, e.g., silent reflux, and then passing out in pure exhaustion at night. Or it could just be how this baby is. There’s a lot of variation in sleep needs.
Anonymous says
“Put daycare out of your mind entirely. Don’t even start worrying about baby’s schedule etc in relation to daycare until maybe a week out. It will be so different by then, there’s no point pre-worrying.”
This x 1 million. They change so much so quickly at that age. And second/third/fourth all the comments that it’s normal to eat frequently in the daytime if you are seeing long stretches of sleep at night. It will get easier as baby’s belly gets bigger and can hold more milk.
You may get more sleep if you are okay with baby sleeping in the stroller or swing. My middle kid needed motion for daytime sleep. I napped on the sofa next to him when he slept (rolled stroller into the house after walks.
Pogo says
With a baby that young, it changes day to day, so I agree not to worry at all about daycare and also not to worry too much about sleep unless LO seems extra fussy/upset. I remember one day that I counted in those early weeks and it was 15 hours of nursing off and on, with no discernible break where I could put baby down in a bassinet and walk away to you know, eat or something. FIFTEEN. And mine was for sure not sleeping through the night either!
I would write down your nursing and sleep schedule for a couple days and if it really is only 12 total hours of sleep, call the ped and give the details. If they’re concerned, they will let you know and will have suggestions. Until then, post up on the couch with some netflix and smoothies/granola bars/other easy to consume foods, and lean into the cluster feeding.
Again, seriously, do not worry about daycare. Professional caregivers are baby whisperers who have done this for literally hundreds of babies, they will get your kid on a schedule in no time.
Anonymous says
+1 to posting up on the couch. I often left baby to nap across me on the nursing pillow while I watch netflix for a couple hours in the afternoon. It’s a great chance to catch up on all those movies that you keep telling yourself that you’ll watch. I actually had seen all the movies from the previous year’s oscars by the end of my mat leave I think.
Anon says
Also a good chance that she could be napping while you think she’s nursing. If you suspect that, then pop her off.
Anon says
+1. I said above that my daughter was just like this, and she napped at the breast after a meal frequently (we even had a name for it…”snack n’ snooze”). Also, fwiw, we did ask our ped about her appearing to sleep less than normal for a newborn, and the ped said it wasn’t really anything to worry about and that babies who do such a long stretch at night may need less total sleep. Which kind of makes sense, right? Eight hours uninterrupted is much more restorative than two four-hour chunks. My husband and I were apparently both great nighttime sleepers and terrible nappers so I believe there’s a strong genetic component to this as well. Given a choice between a great napper and a great nighttime sleeper, I would definitely pick the great nighttime sleeper. ;)
Seafinch says
I think your instincts are right. I am always really concerned about sleep. Mine had all been sleeping through at that age but still napped. My one year old is still sleeping 15.5 hours per 24, which is a lot but ten hours is extremely low for even a three year old. I would be concerned and would circle the horses to try some things to implement naps. I agree with the above comment that a nap under 45 minutes doesn’t really count. I think tracking is good to see a pattern, and I agree with the nursing pillow snooze or stroller, carrier naps. Good luck. I have had great sleepers but the one year old is currently going through something it is extremely stressful, even after four babies!
NYCer says
For a 6-week old baby, a nap under 45 minutes most certainly “counts”. Lots of babies that age take cat-naps. It sounds like you have great nappers, but for many babies, consolidated naps don’t start happening until they are 8-12 weeks old.
Seafinch says
We can disagree whether under 45minutes counts but the problem is much, much too little sleep overall. So increasing the time of those naps would go a long way to remedying that. In any case, a six week old needs to sleep a lot more than ten hours per 24 hours.
Anonymous says
I don’t think there’s much you can do to control the length of a 6-week-old’s naps, or really anything about their sleep. At that age, they are going to do whatever they want to do. The only thing you can do to maximize sleep is to figure out what the baby wants and provide that as much as possible.
Boston Legal Eagle says
For naps, we didn’t really start working on true “in the crib naps” until our kids were closer to 10-12 weeks. Before, it was on us, in swings, in the carseat/stroller or (mostly) in the RockNPlay. Ok, I know that last one is recalled but I think that confinement helped my kids a lot more than trying to nap in a crib. Echo everyone that you can try to see if she’ll sleep in non-crib surfaces like a carrier, stroller, carseat, etc.
PR Anon says
Sleeping through the night at six weeks?! Call up Dr. Karp and share the news! We hit ours (in the Snoo) at about 2.2 months. I agree with the advice you are getting above .. so much is going to change sleep wise in the next few months but keep some of the same “nighttime” routines in place to be consistent where it counts. Taking Cara Babies (blog), SNOO mamas on FB and CALLING the Happiest Baby peeps all had helpful advice.
And don’t worry about daycare yet, but if baby is in Snoo, get a Sleeppea swaddle for those times they sleep in a pack n play or crib. And congrats on a good little sleeper!
Smoking grandma says
Any advice on a grandma who smokes? A lot. Has for decades and is not interested in quitting. She’s not local and we only see her 1-2x per year at her home. But she now wants to visit us more frequently. Partner and I both hate the smoking. Brother in law, who is local to grandma, also smokes. Grandma has been super helpful and lovely with brother in law’s three kids. Should we just suck it up for the few times a year we see her? Avoid staying at her home (she smokes inside. A lot.)? Or is this something you take seriously and say no home visits? Baby is coming this summer, so also interested in your thoughts about infants v. Toddlers. Thanks!
Cb says
I wouldn’t stay at her home but I think visiting in public places is probably fine. Do you think the visits will really increase dramatically or is it just talk? When I was pregnant, my in-laws said they would visit frequently and we’ve had maybe one extra visit?
Anonymous says
I would not stay in her home, have her smoke outside and change shirt/wash hands every time she smokes.
ElisaR says
this
Anon says
This is hard. How many of us grew up with grandparents who smoked? I did (my grandfather was an extremely heavy smoker) and it was a similar situation where we only visited them a couple times per year. We did stay with them, and other than our clothes smelling I don’t believe there were ill effects (I suppose time will tell, but we are in our 30s with no asthma or any other respiratory conditions). It also helped a little, I think, that the house was a decent size and the bedrooms we stayed in were on a different floor at the other end of the house.
I am a huge health nut and I despise smoking, but I also tend to lean towards compassion and priotizing relationships. I would definitely let MIL visit and smoke outside, and maybe with an infant have her change her shirt before holding him/her, but I don’t think you need to implement any draconian policies or be especially nervous. As for visiting, if you are more comfortable staying in a hotel that is fine, but I really don’t think once a year at her house is going to hurt anyone. Just look at the French with their long life expectancies and copious smoking indoors!
Equestrian attorney says
Just a quick note that I’m French and don’t know a single person who smokes indoors these days, especially with kids. There are lots of smokers in France, that’s for sure, but also a lot of awareness around smoking and kids. Virtually all of my friends who smoked in their 20s quit when they had children (men and women) and at least in my social circle, smoking indoors with kids around would be extremely frowned upon.
Pogo says
This is such a dealbreaker for me as someone with asthma and allergies. I suppose I’m lucky that we don’t have any friends or relatives that smoke, I don’t even know what I’d do. Definitely not stay at the house because second hand smoke is a real thing; for staying at your house, I think the suggestions to have her smoke outside and change clothes are best for limiting exposure. If you and your kids don’t have allergies or asthma the main concern is the actual smoke, so as long as that’s outside, should be technically OK from a health perspective.
Anon says
Thirdhand smoke (the remnants of cigar*ttes on clothing and in hair, etc) is actually a very real concern from a health perspective, even for people without asthma. This article says that sitting next to a smoker during a 2 hour moving is like smoking “between one and 10 cigar*ttes” (that’s….a very wide range. But even one is bad!!) And a baby cuddled up against a grandmother’s chest is much closer to the clothing than two people sitting next to each other in a theater.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/04/health/thirdhand-smoke-wellness/index.html
Pogo says
Wow, I was trying to be generous but yeah. If that’s a real thing, then definitely change clothes etc.
I’m a rabid anti-smoking hater, so I don’t pretend to be neutral on this topic.
Anonymous says
Does she smoke around the grandkids? My dad smoked around us all the time as kids but by the time grandkids came along, he restricted himself to the garage, outside and his ‘man cave’ tv room. He generally The house still had a smoky smell but my sister was comfortable staying there (we’re local). Even now he’s pretty discrete about it around my kids. I don’t think the younger two know he smokes and my oldest only figured out around age 8.
In your case, I’d probably stay in a hotel or Air BnB, visit the house for short periods and spend more time eating out/doing other activities (walk in the park etc). Do you feel that you have a relationship where you can ask her to not smoke around your kids? I think that’s a fair ask.
Jessamyn says
Definitely wouldn’t say there, just because it would be gross to me personally. Ditto with hanging out inside the house for any length of time — set up chairs in the backyard or, as others have said, go out to other activities. But from a health perspective, your kids will be fine regardless IMO (IANAD).
Anon says
I had asthma as a child so am more intense about smoking than many, but I personally wouldn’t let a smoker stay in my home.
Anonymous says
I also have asthma, and just sitting next to a smoker on a plane can cause issues for the next several days. I would not let a smoker stay in my home, and I wouldn’t visit her home even for a few hours. If she wants to visit you, she needs to stay in a hotel and only spend short amounts of time in your home. She should smoke outdoors and should change clothes and wash her hands before holding the baby. If you are going to visit her, stay in a hotel and meet up in public places.
Anonymous says
My mother in law smokes (husband’s stepmom, his mom passed when he was in high school). She is local to us, and in fact is babysitting our 9 month old tonight. (She knows she should quit, she knows smoking is bad, but she hasn’t quit and I don’t know that she’s going to. I would like it if she did, but I don’t bring it up to her. So, for the foreseeable future, one of my child’s grandparents smokes. )
My MIL is very understanding that she’s the smoker, not anyone else. So, she only smokes outside, doesn’t leave a mess of cig butts in the ashtray, and is very good about washing hands after coming inside and chewing gum to keep the smoke scent down, but it’s there. We have stayed with my in laws before (they used to live further away) and I didn’t have any problems at their house, mostly because my FIL is a neat freak who is constantly cleaning the house and my MIL does not smoke inside. So, their house does not smell like smoke and there’s no indication that a smoker lives there.
I wouldn’t stay at their house if she smoked inside. Honestly, for my MIL, her smoking is like someone else going to the bathroom – she just excuses herself and comes back in like 10-15 minutes two or three times over the course of a visit.
Anonymous says
I would not visit in her home but would allow her to visit mine as long as she only smokes outside.
Anon says
We are the same situation. See her in her home 1-2x year. We have a 2 year old and it was a major point of contention earlier on.
At our house: no smoking anywhere near our house. like, go out by the street. You feel shamed? Tough. Fresh shirt/jacket when holding baby, and she has a designated ‘smoking jacket’ she wears out so it doesn’t have immediate contact with her other clothes. It’s not perfect, there is always a lingering staleness in the air when she’s here, but it’s better than pre-kid when she utterly disregarded our requests to not smoke near us.
At her house: if it smells like smoke, we go to a hotel. It hasn’t had to happen yet but she knows this is our standard. So far, she’s miraculously been able to rid the house of the smell when we’ve visited. It helps that she moved into a new construction home about 16 months ago so the two times we’ve visited it’s been fine. Trips are quick, by design for other Reasons. The house smells overwhelmingly like glade plug ins which may or may not be better than smoke.
Good luck. It’s hard. There are a lot of hills I won’t die on and I just tolerate with her because we see her so infrequently and for such short durations- this is not one of them. FWIW, it’s DH’s mom.. he has the convos initially but I’ve had no reservations about reinforcing/reminding to get to the street to smoke, for example.
Pogo says
I know it’s for the best, but all the travel restrictions from COVID-19 are really bumming me out. I have to miss a big conference next week that I was planning to network at, and our Paris trip will likely be postponed. Just needed to vent – again, I know it’s the right move from a public health perspective, but such frustrating personally.
Jessamyn says
Certainly it’s frustrating. I just bought tickets to a large public event in our city for next week, then I realized… oh yeah. We probably shouldn’t go. Oops.
ElisaR says
i’m totally with you…. how long do we expect these things to be cancelled? Through May? For life? (I mean not really but maybe?)
Anon says
I think at least through May/June, and if warmer weather doesn’t stop the virus, than potentially well into 2021. There should be a vaccine, at least for high-risk folks, by mid-2021.
My husband and I had four plane trips on the books between now and June, all non-refundable flights and mostly non-refundable hotels, and I think we’re going to be out a bunch of money, like possibly approaching $10k when all is said and done. We have travel insurance through our credit card, but it only covers specific things, like if one of us gets ill. I feel like the government should mandate that airlines refund tickets for trips scheduled to happen while the virus is still spreading widely (and then bail out the airlines) in order to discourage sick people from flying. But I’m skeptical that will actually happen.
I’m annoyed at myself for being a planner who buys everything 4-6 months in advance.
Anonymous says
I keep wondering about this, too. DH and I are looking to plan an anniversary trip for September-ish, and I really hesitate to book anything that can’t be cancelled/refunded.
Anon says
Airlines are absolutely desperate for business right now, so I know some of them (United for sure) are waiving change fees on all tickets purchased between now and some date near the end of March, so I think you could book a September trip with the right to change it later at no cost. It doesn’t help all of us who bought tickets before March 1 (I realize airlines are waiving the change fees for future trips to help themselves, not to help customers, but it’s still annoying).
Anonymous says
I didn’t know. Thanks!!
Anon says
American has done the same thing. I would be surprised if any major airlines are not offering that now.
Katy says
YMMV – in my particular case travel insurance (e.g. through VISA) kicks in when the government actually changes the “rating” of a destination country. it does not kick in if only a warning is issued. (I looked at this in detail a few years ago when there were some issues in Turkey that result in a government issued warning to increase caution in the country but no change to the advisory – e.g. Exercise caution to No non-essential travel)
for example – if I booked a trip to Japan 6 months ago (no Corona Virus) and it is now rated “no non-essential travel” you should get covered.
if you are just ELECTING to not go a trip to say Florida your travel insurance doesn’t apply.
That said – my husbands work (bank) yesterday shared that travel insurance through the bank no longer covers corona virus cancellations because it is a foreseeable risk. E.g. I book a trip to Disneyland today, I and it gets cancelled because Disney land closes in May when I planned to go – too bad, even if the formal rating changes
Anon says
When was your Paris trip? We have tickets for Easter and are still hoping to go (though obviously may yet change our minds).
Anon says
I don’t see how this is possibly going to be contained by Easter. There are more cases in Europe and the US every day. It’s only just now starting to slow down in China, which has been battling this outbreak (with much more draconian measures than can be used in a democracy) for about three months.
Anon says
I’m sure it won’t be contained, but is it actually worse to go walk around another city than go to work/school/daycare in my current city?
anon in brooklyn says
That’s what I’m thinking too. We’re supposed to go to Florida in early April, and it seems like, even with flying, hanging out on the beach will be better than subway/work/daycare in NYC.
anon says
The issue is you could end up quarantined on vacation and unable to travel home. I know that I personally cannot afford to stay in a hotel room for 30+ days while waiting for an outbreak to die down.
Anon says
My employer, along with many others, has asked its employees to suspend all non-essential international travel, and I expect we’ll see much more of that in the coming weeks. Travel isn’t just about the place you’re visiting. When you get on an international plane flight, you’re exposed to people from all over the world, including people from places like China and Italy, which currently have much larger outbreaks than the US. I suppose it’s your right to ignore that kind of directive, but it seems selfish and disrespectful to your co-workers who are older or have underlying health conditions. You and your kids will survive this virus, but many people you know will not.
Pogo says
That’s how I feel (why is it different to walk around Paris than Boston), but I’m more worried about being in CDG with people from all over the world and their germs, and then to Anon at 11:09’s point, my employer has made the same request about travel. I’m also pregnant. Ugh. I was just so looking forward to the trip, and of course we’ll be out some $.
We may try to simply postpone (assuming my husband’s employer postpones their conference rather than cancelling, which is the current word on the street) but like others have mentioned I don’t see this getting better any time soon.
Anon says
Anon@11:09, yeah, I totally get that, and don’t want to expose more vulnerable people, but also I’m pretty sure I’m going to get this virus staying home, too (based on our city). Since younger people are often asymptomatic and we can’t test anyone, I could be transmitting it to coworkers right now without knowing it. I guess travel is more of a risk, but it’s not like staying home is perfect, either…
Spring Water says
The quarantine issue is my concern. I asked my spouse to cancel a business trip this week (his company was encouraging cancellation of nonessential travel). I’m concerned because our child already has asthma and I hated the idea of part of the family being quarantined in a location away from the others. We could probably afford the hotel or short-term rental by just giving up a vacation and other expenses for this year, but the separation would have been tough on everyone. And certainly being quarantined in a place like Paris could be a lot more expensive and scary to be that far apart if some family members are traveling but others are not.
Anonymous says
I’m trying to imagine how forcing tourists to self-quarantine and to pay for additional lodging in a hotel or similar would work. Is there precedent for that? People have become stranded in vacation locations after natural disasters, but that’s because the means for them to travel home doesn’t exist. As long as flights are still going (and I really can’t see air travel stopping), they would either have to let you go or give you the money to stay, right? Otherwise people will just leave anyway. Are any quarantines actually being ENFORCED, like with policemen making sure people don’t leave? The only ones I’m aware of are the cruise ships, but that’s easy from an enforcement standpoint.
If you can’t work remotely, I guess there is still the additional PTO to consider.
In House Lobbyist says
Me too! My large employer banned all work travel and advises against personal travel. We canceled all March trips but haven’t canceled April yet. But were told not to commit to anything new before June! I thought work travel (1-4 times a month) was a hassle but now I am feeling sadly bummed about it. I feel like George Clooney in Up in the Air.
Pogo says
Haha right?! I have my favorite hotel that I always stay at and I feel weirdly sad to not see everybody there next week (bc yes, I know almost the whole staff). I get antsy being in my home office too many weeks in a row.
Anonymous says
I wish my employer would ban travel. We have two people going to Seattle next week, and so far they have no intention of cancelling.
Anonymous says
We have a domestic trip (Florida) planned within the next week and have decided to go.
In making this decision, we consulted with family members who include somebody who runs an infectious diseases clinic and an epidemiologist (who is actively working on surveillance and monitoring of this situation). Both agreed that it made sense to go on the trip.
One did advise that they wouldn’t plan any international trips but was planning to take advantage of booking some of the great flight deals that are currently available for the September/October timeframe.
SC says
DH and I have a trip to Hawaii scheduled for late May. Our hotels, rental car, and activities are refundable, but flights are not. For now, we still plan to go. I probably won’t cancel unless our flights are canceled. I’m hoping the spread will subside by May as it warms up.
Jessamyn says
We got notice from our school district that children who stay home sick will still be eligible for “perfect attendance” starting now and going forward. Just highlights to me the ridiculousness of the normal “perfect attendance” policy, i.e. that it poses a public health hazard by pressuring students to come to school sick! This virus scare is awful, but hopefully it sparks some conversations and reevaluation around public health practices
Cb says
Argh, perfect attendance awards are the biggest bs. We had someone who made it K-12 without a sick day, coming in even when she was really hurt, which doesn’t feel like behaviour we should be awarding.
Anon says
This is absurd. It is not perfect attendance if you don’t attend (but of course we can’t bear to hurt anyone’s feelings…). I agree this policy is ridiculous to begin with, and this makes it worse. Just get rid of the award!
anon says
Perfect attendance awards are just stupid to begin with, and this policy is even more absurd. Totally agree with encouraging sick kids to stay home, but then the “perfect attendance” thing is a misnomer. Just get rid of the award at that point.
Anonymous says
Yeah perfect attendance awards are not designed for this crowd
Jessamyn says
What do you mean?
Anonymous says
They’re intended to serve as a motivation for at risk children and families in high poverty districts where many kids are missing 30+ days a year for no reason. They’ve long ago spread to districts with no real attendance problems where all they do is incentivize perfection when actually missing a few days would be preferable.
Anonymous says
I would love to see the research suggesting that the prospect of a certificate for perfect attendance is going to provide any extra motivation to a parent who wasn’t already able (or willing) to get a child to school.
Anonymous says
My attitude towards school is that it should not be more strict than a job. If you need time off for illness or an occasional trip or vacation, so be it.
Jessamyn says
Completely agree that we should have the freedom to take our kids out of school for vacation without running afoul of truancy laws. And funding should be based on enrollment, not attendance.
Anonymous says
That’s nice but again, these laws are designed to protect children against parents who would not otherwise ensure they are being educated. In my state there are 180 school days a year. Plenty of time for you to vacation without kids missing school.
Jessamyn says
Is anyone on this board in a job where you have summers off? I feel like I really romanticize the idea of just having endless lazy days with my kids, basically having a “summer” of my own. I’m an attorney, so wondering if there’s any contract-attorney type job where I could in effect take summers off, or at least slow my workflow down to very very very part-time to have that “summer feel.”
But then again, my good friend is a teacher, so she has the summers off, but she is choosing to keep her kids in childcare and teach summer school for the extra income. Part of this is because they’re toddlers and she doesn’t want to lose her spot at the daycare, which wouldn’t be a consideration for me with school-age kids. But still, it makes me wonder, perhaps staying home with kids isn’t all it’s cracked up to be (obviously women on this board will skew to that POV).
Also, it kind of feels like cheating the system to have been a working mom during the super-tough toddler years, and then stepping way back once they are school age and more genuinely fun to be around (“Survive til five!”) What do you all think?
Anon says
My husband is a professor so he has summers sort of off. He needs to do research, but he doesn’t have the teaching and administrative responsibilities he has during the school year and most of his collaborators are European so they take long off-the-grid vacations in the summer and there’s a limit to how much progress he can make without any collaborators to talk to. And to the extent he has to work, he can definitely work remotely from anywhere in the world with wi-fi. I would give my left arm for an academic year job, but I don’t have enough qualifications to teach college (I have a master’s but no PhD, and no interest in starting one in my mid-30s). My job lends itself pretty well to freelance work, so once we’re done with daycare bills, I hope to quit and freelance, giving us the flexibility to travel more and do extended stays abroad over the summer, and giving me more time with my kids in the summers. Quite honestly, maybe it’s because I only have one, but I love spending time with my 2 year old and would absolutely love to have my summers off with her even now. I’m sure she will only be more fun as she gets older though.
Anonymous says
I am an attorney and need to hit a billable hours requirement. My schedule is very flexible as long as I meet deadlines and get my hours in. However, I’m technically part-time, as I moved to a minimum of 1500 hours/year after kiddo was born. My goal (not that I really meet it, it seems), in the summers is to have 2-3 days per week where I work 5-7, 9-1:30, and 8-9. I get kiddo up and out the door, she is at daycare through nap, and then I pick her up to enjoy the afternoon. She is 4 now, so hopefully the afternoon will involve more pool time this summer.
Anon says
Aw that’s sweet!
Jessamyn says
Really interesting perspective, thank you! I’m also an attorney so am picturing a contract-style WFH job where during the school year, I would bill consistently during school hours (still part time, probably 30 hours/week target) but then drop way off during the summer, maybe hiring in a babysitter two days a week to WFH, supplementing with early mornings and evenings (and TBH even if the kids are home with me during the summer, it’s not like I couldn’t sneak in some work during episodes of Wild Kratts or play dates at their friends’ houses).
Pogo says
We do summer Fridays at my job and people peace out around 11am (you’re also able to use just 4h of vacation to take an entire Friday off, which many do). Myself and several others with young (and even older kids!) use this to take long weekend trips or just do some fun afternoon activity together. In the summer I also make an effort to truly leave at 4pm some days and do stuff like, run to pick up toddler in the jogging stroller and jog home with him, stopping at the park to play and get an ice cream. As long as you get your 40h in, summer is very flexible at my office which I really appreciate. To me it’s totally enough – I wouldn’t want to be an academic just to get the summer “off”.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Same here (this must be a trend in Boston companies, haha). Summer Fridays and most of the summer months are generally slower so that’s when most people take longer vacations and leave early or come in late.
AwayEmily says
I’m a professor and I send my kids to daycare pretty much all summer long. However, I am also pre-tenure. Post-tenure, I anticipate taking a *little* more time with them (ie, maybe taking a month off) but realistically I’ll still need to get work done and three solid months with my kids is not ideal for me. Also, I like my job a lot and the summer is one of the few times I get to go head-down on research without the distraction of teaching. My parents were also professors, and they would take the month of August off and we’d stay on a lake in Minnesota. It was wonderful.
Jessamyn says
Reminds me of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, where they basically decamp to the Catskills for 2 months every summer! Must be nice! :)
CPA Lady says
I could if I wanted. I know a number of people (women) who work seasonally doing taxes mid Jan-April 15 and August-Oct 15. It’s kind of the dream. But I stay full time because 1. health insurance, 2. i’m risk averse, and 3. there is not a single SAHM bone in my body.
FWIW, all the SAHMs I know seem like they are about to completely lose it by the end of summer.
Anon says
At least in my area, most SAHMs have 3-4 kids and can’t afford any kind of childcare or summer help. If you work at a professional job for most of the year, you probably don’t have four kids (some do, but definitely not most) and you can probably afford some fun camps and other summer activities for your kids, which will make life a lot more pleasant for everyone, while still giving you a lot more time with your kids than you’d have if you worked full-time all summer. There’s a lot of space in between working full-time all summer long and staying home full-time, and it sounds like most people here are saying that ideally they’d like to be somewhere in the middle (see: month long family vacation, leaving work at 1:30 a few days a week, etc.)
Anon says
I’m currently a SAHM of two, so you can factor that in to my POV, but I’ll weigh in on the “is it all it’s cracked up to be” question. Yes and no, lol. It definitely won’t be smiles and fun all the time; there will be cranky kids and long days and chores to get done. But you will have the mental and physical freedom to just be – to go on those adventures when the mood strikes, to spend the whole day at the pool, to sit in your pajamas until 4pm sometimes and watch TV and read books, to take random day trips and trips to visit relatives, to let your kids stay up really late in the backyard because they can sleep in, to make them play in the basement by themselves while you take a mental health afternoon on the couch.
More importantly, it gives your kids the freedom to just be. My four-year-old has been talking about camp the last few days because he assumes that’s what you do based on conversations at his preK; when I told him we weren’t planning on camp because he could stay home he was SO relieved. (I don’t say this to shame anyone; some kids love camp and families do what they have to, but I am admittedly a BIG proponent of downtime and quiet and letting kids spend unstructured time at home. You know your kids best).
Clearly I fall in the camp of “if you can make it work, DO IT!” since you seem to feel the nudge.
anon says
Just to add to your perspective, there are camps that are basically hanging out at the pool with friends. My daughter is attending one for a couple of weeks this summer. They swim, color at picnic tables, throw around a frisbee, climb on the adjacent swingset and dig in the dirt, and then hop back in the pool. It’s super chill and unstructured.
Jessamyn says
For sure, that does sound nice. I think I’m a bit biased in favor of the SAHM chilling rather than them chilling at camp while I work in part because I HATED day camps when I went during the summer — but of course, this was also during visits to my non-custodial parents, so I knew no one and was in a strange city and missing the hell out of my mom. Pretty likely my kids’ experience of day camp will be far more positive. :)
Anon says
I appreciate it – and I really don’t mean to come down on camps. I did then say we could sign him up if he wanted, but he declined. It’s the introvert in me (and my son!) coming out. My real point to OP is to consider the decision from her kid’s perspective, too, and maybe that will give some insight. I feel like we put ourselves and our kids on the hamster wheel of activity and progress year-round (eg intense sports all the time because they “love it”) and there is something to be said for the classic summer vacation of rest and boredom (that can include some camp, too, of course). I wouldn’t necessarily say these things to a family that was happy with their status quo, but OP asked and seems to be evaluating priorities.
Jessamyn says
I love this perspective, thank you. I think “the freedom to just be” PERFECTLY encapsulates what I’m thinking of. I remember as a kid the great feeling of just laying around the house all day, reading my books, soaking up sun, yes probably watching way too much TV and eating junk food. Just not having to be on a schedule sounds like such a LOVELY break, especially after a year (our first, kindergarten) of public school where my child has to be IN the door by 7:30 or be tardy. Daycare itself has a much more flexible schedule, so there feels like less of a need for a “break.” But after what is to be honest a grueling morning schedule all year, the idea of 3 months to just wake up whenever we want and spend our days however we want sounds awesome.
Anonymous says
I’m a SAHM as well who came to this board when I was still a working mom. There are definitely difficulties in my job but I love the freedom to choose what we do every day. We go on one weekly “adventure” in the spring/summer like super cool faraway playground, museum, petting zoo, etc…were in the DC suburbs so I expect there will be a lot more in DC proper as they get older. Most afternoons from 3-5pm is relaxed water play in the backyard. Going to the pool and splash park. I dunno? I love it!
Anonymous says
Sure you could do contract doc review and decline summer assignments. Boring though.
anon says
Actually, that is our plan — kiddo is in daycare now while we both work big jobs, but we plan to both leave sometime in the next 4-7 years when kiddo is in K or early elementary. We will have the finances by then to both work extremely part-time schedules at most. The plan is to do a lot of travel and (maybe…?) some alternative schooling arrangement. Neither of us is excited by the prospect of staying home with a toddler, but we know we are 100% in on lots of time with a slightly older kid. I don’t get how this is “cheating.” It’s moving resources around to maximize family time later, and being honest about our capacities and interests in parenting.
This works because we are older parents and, like I said, two big jobs. And lots of planning. Like, more than a decade before kiddo was born (though obviously back then, it wasn’t really about time with a kid we weren’t even sure we would have).
Anyway, long way of saying this is a thing that some people do, and I think it’s perfectly reasonable. And I’m really looking forward to it, obviously. And god knows I will need the change of pace after 15+ years in biglaw.
Spirograph says
This is my general approach, too. I make good money and will probably stay in my current job until it is no longer providing me the flexibility I want, because I don’t *dislike* my work most of the time. But I’m also not super career-motivated, and don’t care to find another high-earning job if anything happens to my current one. I have 2-3 years until my youngest is in elementary school, and once we have three kids doing whatever activities, it might make more sense for our family to have a stay-at-home parent, or at least a part time-working one. I don’t think I would enjoy being a SAHM for kids under 5, but I DO think I would enjoy it when I have the whole school day to regroup. My salary has doubled in the last 5 years, and we’re saving a lot of that to keep options open.
Boston Legal Eagle says
“Also, it kind of feels like cheating the system to have been a working mom during the super-tough toddler years, and then stepping way back once they are school age and more genuinely fun to be around (“Survive til five!”)” – I mean, call it cheating all you want but this is my dream! I want to skip all the difficult young years, hence working full-time now, to set myself up to have more time with my kids when they’re older and more fun! In reality, I’ll probably still work full-time when they’re in grade school but setting myself (and husband) up financially now so that we can have options later seems ideal.
Anonymous says
The commenters on this board with older kids have convinced me that the toddler years are better for getting ahead at work/working a lot than later when the activities start to become a bigger thing.
anon says
I just wanted to respond to your last point about working more when they are toddlers and less when they are older. I did this – I took a step back from my BigLaw job when my kids hit the later elementary school years and found it to be perfect timing. They were so fun to be around and it was harder to meet their needs and our family’s needs with after school care and/or nanny. It was actually after a really rough summer (shuttling 2 kids to different camps every week that they didn’t love, longing for the flexibility to give them and us more “free time, trying to take a vacation and getting lots of slack from work, etc.) that lead me to finally make the leap. It was a hard decision for me and I doubted myself a lot, but now looking back, I know it was the right thing. I really enjoyed the time I spent with them during that time and I really feel like it made our family life so much smoother. I still continued to work part-time and, now that they are in high school, I’m considering ramping up but still don’t see myself going back to a regular, full-time, out of the house job.
anon says
Honestly, this sounds like my dream scenario.
Anonymous says
It is great, but we have had to make some choices to make it work, especially financial. We have stuck to decent public school even when private school may have been a “better fit”. We still take vacations but not anything extravagant. We have still been saving, planning for college and retirement, but definitely not at the same level we could have if I was still working in BigLaw. I never wanted to be a BigLaw partner or GC, but sometimes when I see updates from peers on LinkedIn, I can’t help but to wonder what could have been. Overall, it still feels like it was right for us, but it hasn’t been all rainbows and unicorns…
Pogo says
I definitely get the sense from this board that elementary and older can be much harder in terms of scheduling than the daycare years. Camps, sports, before school care, after school care, field trips, etc. It is so easy to drop off at 7:30 and pick up at 5:30 all year round with very little thought to scheduling, I will miss it!
anon says
I would love to do this but can’t see how to make it work and not lose my job. :( I have almost zero mom-guilt … except during the summer months, when I really wish my kids could sleep in and just *be*.
A few years ago, I had enough vacation time banked to take off most Fridays during the summer. I kept my kids home with me and we essentially had a long weekend every week. Sometimes I’d call into a meeting if needed, but I really tried to keep the days unscheduled. That felt like a decent compromise, within the boundaries of my job.
Been There, Done That says
I’m an attorney and took most of a summer off with my 3 year old. For me, it was not a good experience. My child didn’t nap but still needed constant attention. We didn’t enjoy the same activities at the same time. Stuff that I thought would be super fun to do together, she was just not interested in. I missed working with and talking to adults. I also still had occasional work to complete, and it would stress me out because, while I had some childcare in the mornings, it never felt like enough to get all the things done. My child was very high energy and high needs and it felt exhausting to even try to get dishes, vacuuming, or cooking done while child was around. It sounds crazy, but it was easier to tag team that stuff on nights/weekends with DH when we were both working. If I’m being honest with myself, I didn’t really enjoy my motherhood role until my child was older, for a variety of reasons that just are what they are. I don’t know if this is possible, but maybe try to take a sort of sabbatical in your current role before you make a permanent change just for an idealized version of summer that you have in your mind.
anne-on says
So my German au pair is planning to take a trip to the Bahamas in mid-March for one of her vacation weeks. She is adamant that she wants to go/everything will be fine/etc. She has trip insurance so it’s not a $$ issue, she just wants to go with friends and they don’t want to find another place to vacation. We (and our au pair coordinator) have both told her we don’t think it’s a good idea, look into rescheduling, etc. (and we’re fine with giving her time off another time!). I’m not really worried about her getting sick, so much as I am about her not being able to get back into the country/getting stuck and not being able to afford to stay in the Bahamas.
What would you do? Quite frankly, I wouldn’t put it past Trump to close the borders if this gets worse. I can’t force her not to fly but I have advised her that we won’t be able to ‘bail her out’ financially, and we will need to count any days she takes off if something bad happens as at least partial vacation days (though if it’s a short delay we’ll work with her and we don’t plan to be punitive). Any other ideas/suggestions?
Anon says
I honestly wouldn’t worry about the Bahamas – there’s minimal spread in the Caribbean. I’d be much more worried about her returning to Germany, honestly. I think you’ve done everything you can do by telling her you won’t help her financially if she gets stuck, and that if she misses work it will count as vacation time. She’s an adult and it’s her decision.
Anonymous says
+1
anon says
+1
I’d also let her know to keep on top of her return flight as airlines are canceling lots of flights.
anon says
Oh, I’d also make sure that she has a reasonable emergency fund. Even with travel insurance, she may need to put out money and be reimbursed. My former au pair told me, after a trip, that she only had $15 in her bank account when she flew four states away for a trip. She justified it by telling me that she had prepaid for her travel and lodging, and stuffed her suitcase with food from our kitchen. I had a chat with her about emergencies and not putting herself in bad situations–what if she’d had a bad situation at a bar and needed to uber herself somewhere safe? No back up money (and no credit card) is a bad idea.
Anonymous says
Omg let her go. There is no travel advisory warning against going to the Bahamas. You’ve already over stepped.
Anon says
Respect her decision to go.
anon says
PSA: If any of you are buy-ahead types, there are a bunch of kids’ winter coats for 50% off at the Columbia website. I ordered my daughter a 3-in-1 coat for next winter for $60, originally $120.
AwayEmily says
Awesome tip, thanks!
AwayEmily says
Maybe a fun question. Do any of you have a kids “spring jacket” that you love? For winter, we use the Patagonia down hoodie, which is high-quality enough to pass down between kids, easy to get on and off, and carseat-safe. What’s the equivalent for a spring coat? Maybe something fleece-lined and water resistant? Location is upstate NY, for what it’s worth.
ElisaR says
Boden has a nice one that is soft inside and water repellent with a hood. We have gotten them as hand me downs. Let me look for a link.
ElisaR says
https://www.bodenusa.com/en-us/lightweight-waterproof-anorak-bold-blue/sty-b1049-blu?cat=C1_S14_G2
Anonymous says
I like the North Face Warm Storm jacket. Fleece lined in the body, windproof and waterproof. Last season colors are often found on sale for a very reasonable price.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Not sure if this will be warm enough for you but I love the Cat & Jack raincoats from Target that have the animals theme (i.e. frog ears on the hood!) That one lasted my older son for a lot of spring and we got a new one for this upcoming spring.
ElisaR says
that frog ears one is going strong for us on kid #2! it’s so cute. (we use it as a raincoat not really a spring coat)
Anonymous says
We have a Columbia rain jacket that has some fleece in it. I’m trying to find it on their website and coming up short. There’s other options, though.
Spring Water says
Patagonia has a light down jacket that is lighter than the down sweater/hoody. It barely has any fill. That is our go-to spring jacket, with a cheap rain jacket to layer on top when it is wet.
anon says
I usually look for something with a jersey lining that isn’t too heavy. Spring jackets are used far less than our fall/winter coats, so I’m not willing to spend a bundle on them. I have found them at Target, Old Navy and Gap, depending on the year.
ElisaR says
i also got one i liked at carters for pretty cheap. clearly we have TOO MANY COATS.
AwayEmily says
Ah ha! Thank you! The keyword “jersey lining” brings up a ton of great options, including a $20 one at Old Navy. And I think water-resistant is good enough…daycare doesn’t send them out in actual pouring rain; only drizzle.
Anon Lawyer says
Hopefully it’s not too late to post this (this site is hard on us West Coasters)!
Any new moms out there with an online shopping problem? I’m on maternity leave and it is FAR to easy to scroll through shops with cute baby stuff on my phone while I hold a sleeping baby. And then Apple Pay means it’s one click to buy.
I’m not bankrupting us or buying anything that won’t be useful someday but I also feel like there’s a psychological thing going on where I subconsciously feel like if I buy the baby everything she could possibly want, everything will turn out ok . . .
Anonymous says
Kids (including infants are actually happier with less stuff – this article links to some of the studies https://www.scarymommy.com/fewer-toys-make-kids-happier/
As a reformed shopaholic (I had 5 strollers), the following helped me:
1. unsave your credit card info from everywhere. Make sure you have to manually type it in each time. Keep your credit card not close to where you usually sit.
2. Browse, browse, and more browsing. Look at lots of options before deciding to buy. The balance here is to remember that there is no one ‘right’ choice. It doesn’t matter if the train set is Melissa and Doug, Pottery Barn, Brio or Imaginarium. Just pick something.
3. Get into something reasonable. We have way way too many of the Kombi animal hats and mitts because I think they are super adorable. But they are relatively inexpensive, and in Canada tons of extra hats and mitts is not too indulgent. If you’re in Florida – maybe the equivalent is baby swimwear.
4. Remembering that I’m trying to leave the world a better place for my kid and that too much ‘stuff’ is generally bad for the environment.
Spring Water says
Your mind knows what it knows and if you think there is a psychological thing going on, there probably is. Scale it back by whatever process makes sense to you. Add stuff to your cart and only go back to buy it the next day (24 hour waiting period). Swear off the big retailers for their terrible corporate practices (looking at you, river site) so that the easiest click and buy options aren’t an option–on principle, you just don’t order from them. Don’t order online at all and only shop locally (even if you order online for pickup). If you don’t feel like driving across town to get it, you don’t need it. Keep in mind the values you want to instill–is stuff important in your life? Prioritize people and experiences over things and have a mantra to center back to that ideal. Lots of ways to approach this, I wish you luck. I simplified my life and cut way back on online shopping (including no river site orders in a year) and I can honestly say it has made me happier. I really do feel like I am living my personal and parental values, which is self rewarding.
Pogo says
I keep a list on my phone titled “WANT” and it’s a list of stuff I … want. For myself, kiddo, the house, etc. It’s a little of a Konmari method in that I leave it there for awhile, then return to it and ask myself if it still sparks joy. I also use it as a way to suggest gifts for birthdays (grandparents are always asking for kiddo) or anniversary, V-day, etc (for myself, to tell husband).
CCLA says
I love this idea and am going to implement asap. Thanks!
Anonymous says
Hi – relatively newish mom here (baby is 9 months old). I spent SO MUCH $$$ on maternity leave. I bought and returend so many items. Or I purchased an excessive amount of one thing – “Oh, I like these onesies. I need 15 of them.”
I wasn’t spending money we didn’t have, I just was spending money. I found maternity leave very hard because you have a lot of things to do, but you also cannot get a lot of things done? So I ended up buying a lot of things and watching a lot of TV. I found that for me personally, buying things felt like a real, concrete, tangible thing that I could do as a first time mom – “yes, I have purchased X which will make my life easier/baby’s life better.” Now that I’m back at work full time, it’s not an issue because I’m just busy.
shortperson says
i did too. i definitely feel that if i were a SAHM i would need a higher income than i do as a busy working mom.
Anon says
you are likely also just bored and looking for something semi mindless to do while holding a sleeping baby. find a show to watch or a podcast to listen to so you don’t go insane!
Anonymous says
This. I would always put things in my cart to buy in the morning. And because BABY, I never did ;).
I would instead play online games when up in the middle of the night too tired for reading. It really helped.
Anon says
Could you do a no-buy month? Or add up all the money you spent in the last X days? I don’t buy toys or “gear” for my toddler, but I was a little shocked when I added up how much money I spent on clothing for her in 2019, especially since I don’t think of myself as an over-the-top shopper. Knowing the $ amount has helped me keep in check so far in 2020.
Emily S. says
Good suggestions here! I remember feeling the same way on leave. I, too, deleted all my credit card info so that when I was browsing online, I had to physically go get the card, and take a minute to consider whether I needed it (or just really, really wanted it and it was okay to buy.) I also did (and still do) the put in the cart and wait 24 hours and most of the time, I don’t buy it because it was a fleeting impulse. Totally agree that the impulse may also come from boredom. It took some muscle memory and awareness of loneliness to reboot my habits — so I would leave my phone and ipad out of reach when I was nursing or holding the sleeping baby and replaced it with a book or nothing and just concentrated on blissful silence/room for my thoughts. One challenge, I will say, is that babies grow so quickly and needs change that it is easier to justify constantly buying clothes and toys than it is for me for my 2.5 and 4.5 year old, who can wear the same outfit for 6 months. So don’t be too down on yourself!
Anon says
Mom of a six-week old infant here. During my maternity leave, I bought an adapter for my stroller, exactly one fancy cup of coffee, and a Valentine’s Day present for my husband. Everything else is bills and gas.
Maybe it’s because I feel like I actually have too much to do: clean the house, cook, make freezer meals for when I return to work, take baby to the park, use the elliptical, meet up with my run club for walks and social hour, research that interests me, reading books, pesky projects that haven’t gotten done for lack of time…. At this point, I’m mad at myself for not getting more done.
DLC says
Yes! I tend to be a under buyer (I have a hang up about spending money), but I still spend lots of time putting things in my shopping cart and going down internet rabbit holes, browsing for the perfect thing that will make life easier or make me feel more put together. I try to combat this by putting the library’s Libby app on my phone’s home screen so I’m encouraged to read while nursing or holding a sleeping baby. Or I also try to make sure there are actual books on the side table next to my nursing chair.
Anon says
This isn’t completely comparable, but…I’ve been doing the Urban/Anthro clothing subscription Nuuly for about 5 months now. I love it for a lot of reasons, but one positive side effect is instead of mindlessly shopping online for something to “do” (since as a mom I’m not going out as much anymore), I find I fulfill that same urge by scrolling through the “what’s new” section of Nuuly and adding things I like to my “closet” for my future rentals (without spending money). Of course, this is only successful if you were previously spending more per month on clothes than the subscription.
Obviously doesn’t help with the baby stuff, but just in case your problem grows to clothing for you :)