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I love a cozy coatigan. They often skew a bit casual, but here’s one from Ann Taylor that may work for the office.
This cheerful (and washable) coatigan is the perfect winter pick-me-up: The notched lapels, long sleeves, and button front move this topper from weekend to work. The practical patch pockets are perfect for ID badges, and the bright kelly green color is surprisingly versatile. My favorite pairing is with navy, but it will also work well with white, cream, or tan.
The coatigan is on sale for $95 (marked down from $159) and available in regular (XS–XL) and petite (XXS–L).
While it’s a true coat and not a coatigan, this pretty green coat from City Chic is available in sizes 14W–24W for $189.
Looking for other washable workwear? See all of our recent recommendations for washable clothes for work, or check out our roundup of the best brands for washable workwear.
Sales of note for 3.28.24
(See all of the latest workwear sales at Corporette!)
- Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off your full-price purchase; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything plus extra 20% off purchase
- Eloquii – 50% off 2+ items; 40% off 1
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- Lands’ End – 10% off your order
- Loft – 50% off everything
- Nordstrom: Give $150 in gift cards, earn a $25 promo card (ends 3/31)
- Talbots – 40% off 1 item; 25% off everything else
- Zappos – 37,000+ women’s sale items! (check out these reader-favorite workwear brands on sale, and some of our favorite kids’ shoe brands on sale)
Kid/Family Sales
- Carter’s – 50% off entire site
- Hanna Andersson – 30% off all swim; up to 30% off HannaJams
- J.Crew Crewcuts – 40% off sitewide; 50% off select swim; 50% off kids’ styles
- Old Navy – 50% off Easter deals
- Target – 20% off Easter styles for all; up to 30% off kitchen & dining; BOGO 50% off shoes & slippers for the family;
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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- If you’re a working parent of an infant with low sleep needs, how do you function at work when you’re in the throes of baby’s sleep regression?
- Should I cut my childcare down to 12 hours a month if I work from home?
- Will my baby have speech delays if we raise her bilingual?
- Has anyone given birth in a teaching hospital?
- My child eats everything, and my friends’ kids do not – how should I handle? In general, what is the best way to handle when your child has some skill/ability and your friend’s child doesn’t have that skill/ability?
- ADHD moms, give me your tips to help with things like behavior in the classroom, attention to detail, etc?
- I think I suffer from mom rage…
- My husband and kids are gone this weekend – how should I enjoy my free time?
- I’m struggling to be compassionate with a SAHM friend who complains she doesn’t have enough hours of childcare.
- If you exclusively formula fed, what tips do you have for in the hospital and coming home?
- Could I take my 4-yo and 8-yo on a 7-8 day trip to Paris, Lyon, and Madrid?
Anonymous says
If I tested positive for Covid on Friday, and didn’t have any symptoms until this morning (runny nose and sneezing), is this symptomatic Covid or do I just coincidentally have a cold? Not that it really matters, since we’ll be isolating for another week anyway, but just curious.
Anon says
Doesn’t matter. Isolation clock restarts from date you have symptoms. Sorry! Hope you have a mild case and symptoms resolve quickly.
Spirograph says
This.
FWIW, my symptoms of covid were exactly like a cold.
anon says
I had a cold symptoms just after a covid exposure, and from my (non medical professional) research, if you have a cold when you are exposed, you are less likely to ALSO get covid. In my case, this was confirmed by repeated negative covid tests but having cold symptoms. But if you tested positive, I’d guess covid. Some medical pro can probably explain why you won’t likely get covid AND a cold simultaneously, but that’s what I gathered from my internet reading.
Anon says
There’s a saying in medicine “when you hear hooves, it’s horses not zebras.” If you have a positive Covid test and symptoms, you have Covid not a cold.
Biting says
My 22-month-old daughter just moved up to the older toddler classroom at school last Monday. Normally this class is for 2yo children, but due to capacity she was moved up a couple of months early. She has bitten a child nearly every day since starting in the room, mostly because of sharing issues — either she has a toy/book that another child tries to take from her, or she and another child are going for the same toy/book at the same time and she bites. Teachers try to intervene but they aren’t quick enough to catch these incidents, and the fact that we’re getting a report of a successful bite every day makes me think there are lots of incidents teachers stop, too.
Outside of getting the Teeth are Not for Biting book on Amazon and reading it to her nonstop (which we’ve done since Friday, I have that book memorized at this point), what else can we do at home? She has a 7yo sibling but they don’t really have sharing issues and no biting incidents that I can remember. I’ve discussed with her teachers at school and they agree she’s sweet and kind and adjusting to the room, but I’m worried that the frequency of biting is going to put us in a bad spot where they’re going to ask us to take a leave of absence or something. Part of me thinks she was moved up too early but the ship has sailed on that. The lead teacher brand new to the center (and I think this is her first lead teacher experience ever given she just graduated from college) so I’m worried that there’s not a lot of experience to lean on from her. Help!
Anon says
i know that no one wants to be the parent of the kid doing the biting, but this sounds normal under the circumstances and i think it is great you got that book. the only other thing i can think of at home is doing some pretend play with dolls or figurines where they both go for the same toy or someone takes someone else’s toy and they want to bite but don’t. she is probably a bit young for that to sink in, but it can’t hurt? if she is 22 months are most of the other kids young 2s or older 2s? are they a lot bigger than her? she probably feels overwhelmed with the transition and if the kids are bigger than her, this is her way of protecting herself. you are doing a great job!
EDAnon says
I agree that this is normal. My kid got bit a lot and it was fine. We hold no animosity towards the other kid(s) or parents. The only kid that had a biting problem would Vite for no reason (like when standing in line). It’s a tough situation and keeping on letting her know it’s not okay will resolve it with time.
Biting says
Thanks, yes, she is definitely on the smaller side but big for her age so she fits in. She is also pretty verbal so the center thought moving her up now would be fine. We will try the pretend play in addition to list of reading!
EDAnon says
My son was also verbal and it doesn’t help if the other kids aren’t verbal. That’s how our son got bit a lot – he’d try to talk to them, get no response, so he’s just take whatever it was and get bit.
Anon says
Both of my kids were big-time biters. The book you mentioned worked well for us. Our kids also didn’t bite at home, but we tried role playing fighting over toys then redirecting the biting urge to a teether. In our most difficult time we had a teether clipped to a kid’s shirt, a biting necklace, and we also had the daycare keep a supply of frozen ones the kids could ask for. Whether the three types of teethers helped with the bite reflex or just offered an enticing Special Thing to redirect is up for debate, but it worked.
We also asked the teachers to convey to the bitten kids’ parents that we felt super bad it had happened and were working on addressing the behavior. Even if the teachers get that this is developmentally appropriate and aren’t freaked out, this expression of remorse can help assure the bitten kids’ parents that the situation is being taken seriously. IME the attitude of the bitten kids’ parents drives whether the biter is asked to leave the class.
Anonymous says
Anon at 10:56 here. Just remembered “The Biting Solution” is also a popular resource for those of us with the bad luck to have daycare buyers.
Biting says
OP here, thanks for these ideas and the book rec. I didn’t think to try the teethers because it seems this is based on frustration she’s experiencing instead of discomfort, but I am now seeing in my head how it could be a good alternative.
Anon says
With my kid we talk about things you can do when you’re frustrated other than biting. Saying no, yelling, stomping your feet, clapping your hands, etc. Just not hitting/biting/kicking. That’s all at home, though. I think they mainly do language at school – we get a lot of “no, my turn” at home when trying to do things like brush teeth. Maybe it would help to have them coach her at school depending on how they deal with it.
Biting says
Yes, thanks. Ideally our methods are the same at home and at school but I have gotten so few details on how they handle that it just seems like it’s a “no biting” and that’s it. Who knows. I probably need to prod a bit more.
Alanna of Trebond says
Maybe this is a bad take, but my son just went through a biting phase (he is slightly younger than your daughter), and my view was that no adults spontaneously bite people, so people must just grow out of it. We did mini-time outs on the playground when he was biting.
Homework Help for Mom says
I need help with managing feelings around homework: mine. It gets ugly quickly when I ask my 1st grader to do her homework. Her homework this week is practice 5 spelling words and when I ask her to spell them, she leaves the room, pretends she doesn’t hear me, starts talking about something else, etc. And if she spells it incorrectly, she absolutely will not try again or move on to the next word. It drives me crazy and I end up sulking, stalking around, etc. (a real good look.) DH is in charge of homework because of this but I really would like to get to a better place with her. (The homework is a reasonable amount and of reasonable difficulty for her grade level.)
Anon says
A few ideas from my experience with my 1st grader, but I also acknowledge that getting into homework for him is VERY tough for both me and my spouse:
– are you asking her to spell them at random times (like while making dinner or doing other stuff), or do you have a set time and routine for starting? I noticed my 1st grader responds well when we sit down for his homework at the kitchen table and he’s with a parent, but getting him to do it outside of those conditions is difficult.
– are you asking her to spell words out loud or write them down? My 1st grader does “rainbow words” and writes out each word of the week 5 times in different colors on the lined paper sent home. That works a bit better than verbal recall.
– are you connecting with your daughter outside of homework time, just to chat about days and stuff? That might get a chance to get the “talking about random stuff” out of the way so she can clear her mind and focus.
– have you varied the time you do homework? My 1st grader does better after dinner and during bedtime for the younger sibling so it’s quiet and focused time for one parent.
DLC says
I had huge homework battles with my daughter. Like tantrums and screaming from bothbof us. Honestly at one point, I had to ask myself- was homework more important than my relationship with my child? And I just let it go and told myself that she was not torpedoing her life with awful homework habits in first grade. I think at one point I literally told her, “I love you more than your homework, so I’m not going to ask you again to do it.”
This was incredibly hard for me because I was always incredibly self motivated to do well in school and I was completely baffled that my kid wasn’t.
She is now in fourth grade and while it’s still a bit of a struggle, she has sort of figured out her own groove. She will often do homework on the bus on the way home, or work on it while I make dinner. Plus she doesn’t get screen time until it’s done, so that’s a great motivator. I know all kids are different, but my kid does better without parental pressure.
Anon says
+1 I’m still working to find a balance between instilling good habits and letting him start to bear the responsibility, but I’m leaning in this direction. After a long day at school, playing, connecting with family members, getting sleep, etc is all way more beneficial and necessary than homework for this age, so if he’s in a good flow I don’t want to pull him out of it. If he’s wandering aimlessly and complaining them I will point him to the homework, or offer to play a game or read a book after he does it so he has an incentive.
He has a monthly reading log (supposed to read 20 min a night) and honestly he has brought it back with at least one night not completed every time. The people pleaser in me nearly died the first month, then I had to check myself – was I really thinking about lying or getting worked up over first grade homework that wasn’t even mine?! Sometimes we have to zoom out and recall the big picture…I want my son to enjoy reading and school, and therefore I’m not going to turn homework into a battle every night.
anon says
I have one child who is strongly motivated by rewards (and another who isn’t at all). For the reward motivated child I have no problem striking a deal with her for a treat if she does something hard. I figure I’ll often motivate myself to do hard things with a small reward, so it’s not a terrible habit. Sometimes it’s additional time on her iPad to play an educational app, a piece of candy, me playing a board game with her, or 15 minutes of additional reading time before bed. It often works to strike a deal.
Other things that help with my non-reward motivated child are making it fun with colored gel pens, invisible markers, an LCD tablet, etc. You could even have her make the words out of playdoh or draw them in kinetic sand.
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Anonymous says
I don’t have advice for you. My kids’ elementary school put a ban on homework until grade 3 for basically this reason. At our parent teacher conference the teacher said they used to do homework in 2nd until pretty recently. Now it’s all about read, read, reading until 3rd grade. They “don’t have spelling words” anymore. I was like..but…but…I was 2nd grade spelling bee champion!
I guess? it works because my 2nd grader is a pretty decent speller and a really good reader. I am now dreading next year when homework starts!
anon says
First grade is young! I’ve got a preschool teacher aunt who keeps reminding me that the research says formal homework should not be assigned until late elementary. Maybe you can talk to her teacher and see if the “homework” will really affect her grades, and take a look at the research on homework. If you can, you might be able to focus instead on fostering a love of reading in less formal ways. Good luck! (From a mom who is just completely ignoring the PRESCHOOL homework because I want my kiddo to love learning and have had to put aside my own perfectionism/wanting to show the teacher that we are “good” parents baggage because DS does not want to do worksheets but does love reading, painting, etc. It’s hard though, so wanted to just give some support that it’s not easy to let things go!)
Cb says
Oh I feel you on this. I have a great moms group but some of the kids are doing homeschool curriculums and doing multiplication? And my kid loves books (but doesn’t want to learn to sound out words), riding his scooter, playing in the woods, baking, and doing lego. I taught him to read numbers by reading them off of buses…
Anon says
Your kid sounds delightful and smart, and those other parents are going to burn out their kids on learning by forcing too much formal learning too soon.
Cb says
I mean, I think some of the kids really enjoy it, my kid would hate it. But the mom guilt is real sometimes.
Anon says
In kids this age, it’s impossible to ascertain whether they genuinely enjoy it or whether they pretend to enjoy it because they want to make their parents happy. I did advanced math with my parents in pre-K and lower elementary, and they never had any indication I hated it, because I really wanted to make them happy. But I did hate it. I am completely anti-anything academic at home unless kids are begging to do it of their own accord.
Anonymous says
Not every kid hates academic activities at a young age. Some of them genuinely enjoy learning and then only learn to resist once they realize they are “supposed” to.
Anon says
Sure, but if they genuinely enjoy it they will ask to do it. I’m against parents guiding kids towards academics at home even if it’s not met with any outward resistance because of my own experiences, and the parent-pleasing tendencies I see in my own kid at this age. (Don’t get me wrong, she has plenty of stubbornness and defiance in certain situations but there are many instances in which I see a clear desire to give us the answer that makes us happiest.)
Anonymous says
My kid genuinely enjoys eating spaghetti, but if she asks for food it’s always going to be cookies and not spaghetti. She enjoys reading and math, but she’s always going to ask to go to the park.
Anon says
At 4 you should take your kid to the park if they’re asking to go to the park. Your analogy is way off base. There are health reasons to not let your kid eat cookies for every meal, but three literally no reason to do reading and math at that age if they’re not asking to.
I realize we all come to parenting our own biases but I HATED doing math enrichment and my parents didn’t have a clue until I became a mouthy preteen because for a long time I wanted to make them happy so I pretended to like it. My child will never do formal academic work at home unless it’s required (I.e. homework) or she asks.
anon says
I mean, on long car rides my preschoolers will ask us to give them addition or subtraction problems because they’re bored. *shrug*
SC says
My 6 year old would rather stay indoors and ask for math problems than go to the park. He’s not sitting down with math worksheets at home, but DH often teaches him conceptual/head math problems during downtime. Kiddo seems to genuinely enjoy it, and I hear joy and excitement and real connection in those conversations. School reinforces with worksheets and teaching him the current “right” way to represent it all on paper.
Anon says
I wasn’t saying going to the park is objectively better for every kid. I was saying if your kid is asking to go to the park over doing math, let them go to the park. If your kid is asking to stay in and do math, of course you can stay in and do math.
Pogo says
Our preschool homework is finding items around the house that start with the letter of the week (and can fit in a brown paper bag) and we both enjoy it so much. My favorite part is asking him at night what the other kids brought in – like when it was Q I was SO curious lol. “Aiden had a quilt!” “But HOW. How did he fit a quilt in his letter bag.”
Anon says
Our daycare does letter bags too (except you can only bring one item). It’s fun!
Anon says
I would not be afraid to tell the teacher you’re not going to be doing homework. It’s really not recommended by experts at this age and the effects of a battle will have a much longer impact than anything learned through first grade homework.
SC says
My kid isn’t doing homework, but we have the same battles when it comes to other parts of our day. Make sure homework is part of a routine, so she knows when to expect it. Give her a warning when it’s time to stop playing and do the homework. Sit down and engage when it’s time to do it. Do things that would make it fun.
Also, vary the time of day when you do it. The end of the day, after school and work, may not be the best time for either of you. Would mornings at breakfast work better? Would weekends be better, if she has her spelling words by then?
Anonymous says
I agree with the suggestion to try mornings. Our kid is not a morning person, but piano practice goes much better in the morning than after school or in the evening when she is wiped out.
Chore Chart Help? says
If you have a chore chart for your kids, how long do you give it to work before deciding to pull the plug and try something else? I instituted a chore chart with my 4 and 6 year old about a month ago and compliance is erratic, at best. I bought a Tiny Tots Reward Chart, mentioned here, with pictures and words and each kid was excited at first, but we haven’t gone a full week yet where they have done each of their 4 chores. One week of full chores earns a book, 2 weeks a sweet bakery treat, and 4 weeks is a toy. Should I keep going with it? Or recognize the chosen rewards don’t motivate them? Am I doomed to have a messy house and lazy, slobby children? (Only kind of kidding.)
Anonymous says
Okay, we are on week one of chore chart, so we are still inthe honeymoon phase. That said, kiddo is already a little “meh” about some of the stuff. Things that have helped: (1) the entire family has chore charts, and we typically do certain chores at the same time after dinner (much of this is becuase kiddo is an only child and we didn’t want to single her out, but it really is a good habit for all of us); (2) kiddo got to pick her reward – she told us what she wanted, and we told her how much it is worth. She picked a new Barbie, which we decided is worth 50 stars, which will be about 2 weeks of full compliance. (3) The hardest part is getting started – once she starts and is earning stars, she’s in. We typically start with everyone tidying the kitchen/living/dining great room together, and that snowballs into her other chores.
Are any of the chores fun? My kiddo gets to feed the cat, and that is super exciting for her, so it is a good way to get the ball rolling to do most of her chores at one time. She also gets to clean her bathroom counter twice a week, which involves a spray bottle. She’s a big fan of those.
Anon says
+1 to also having adult chores and doing them all at the same time.
We also try to keep the “real” chores to less than 10 min during the school week, and include doing homework as one of the chores. Usually they work on homework while we make dinner, then we all zip around and do our last items right before eating. There are no rewards for this, but since it’s part of the routine it helps it get done.
More involved chores happen on the weekend. We don’t pay/reward for chores, but then we have additional “work for hire” where they can do extra jobs for money once their chores are done. The work for hire will be things like cleaning out closets (say, $5), shoveling the driveway ($5), addressing Christmas cards ($2), washing bed linens ($3), etc, whatever big item is on our family todo list for the weekend. They can pick what work they want to do, and when it’s complete (and so are their chores) they get the money. Some weeks they don’t want to do any of it, and that’s fine, but when they’re trying to save up for a special toy or event, they’ll fly through chores so they can get that cash.
Cb says
We started this week too and it’s hit and miss. I really just want my kid to get himself dressed for nursery, tidy up his toys, and get into his pyjamas. Mostly to make it easier on my husband when we’re not both here to wrangle him. He’s 4, this should be doable. But no, he’s tired and he is a cats. Cats do not have opposable thumbs, mummy.
I’m not doing any bribes though, because when we tried a sticker charrt for something else, he’d be too sad if he didn’t get a sticker and nursery told us off for it.
Katy says
This made me laugh out loud. Last night our 4 year old couldn’t finish dinner with our help because he was a walrus and you can’t use a fork with flippers. (We were on the clock to get to swimming lessons.)
Pogo says
Mine is a baby moose today! But a boy moose, so he will get antlers when he grows up (his words). Did not impact his ability to get ready for school, thankfully. He was a walrus earlier this week though! 4 year olds are the best.
Anonymous says
Oh god, my 4yos do this too. My “favorite” is when they’re slugs, which can’t do anything besides lie on the floor because they have no appendages.
Anonymous says
I need to try being a slug myself.
Anonymous says
What helps us is having family chore time. On Saturday mornings the kids get to watch cartoons while I make pancakes, then we eat, then we have half an hour of chores time before going out to do something fun. I don’t really care if they do the chores well or are independently motivated to do it, my goal at their age is just them understanding that the house doesn’t magically clean itself.
Anon says
Unless the chores are particularly onerous, I wouldn’t give rewards. That seems to give them a choice or whether to do them or forego the reward. Instead, set the expectation that chores are just what you do as part of a household. The first week you could offer to do it with them, or have a set 15-min a day when you all do your chores. Let them scream and cry but they can’t move on to the next part of the day/evening until chore is complete… if they still don’t do it, put them to bed and try again the next day. Help them as much as is needed, make it fun as possible (music? Setting a timer and having a race?) to get over the initial hump. And for those ages I would have very few, manageable tasks to start – collect shoes and put them back, unload utensils from the dishwasher, hang up your coat, work together with mom and dad to clean up the playroom, etc
AwayEmily says
I feel like kids vary so much in how they respond to these. The one time I tried a chore chart my kids (3 and 5) were very meh about it. Sounds like it may not be your kids’ thing either. In terms of doing chores, we’ve had the best luck in tying them to something else that happens in the future (e.g. “we won’t have time to do stories at bedtime unless we finish cleaning up the playroom now”). Then eventually it becomes less attached to the “consequence” and they do it (mostly) on their own.
I’ve also found it helpful for my own sanity to make a very conscious decision of which chores are “must-do” (for us it’s hanging up coats when they come home, clearing their plates after dinner, and tidying before bedtime) and which are ones that I am willing to let go (for example, I often ask a kid to help put away the dishes and sometimes they agree and sometimes they don’t, but I don’t push it if they say no). That way I can put 90% of my energy into consistently enforcing just the must-do chores and not be constantly making decisions about whether I want to fight a particular battle.
Anonymous says
We don’t exactly have a chore chart but our son has had chores since he was 5ish. We’ve never offered rewards for him for this, and we’ve never worried too much about whether or not he’s self-motivated – chores are non-negotiable and he just has to do them. We have to remind (nag, prod) him to do most of them, and I’m okay with that. I don’t like chores either. At least he is learning how to do this stuff so when he is an adult he can make a conscious choice about how he wants to live. So my advice would be maybe to change tactics and lay down the law a bit. To start, you might need to have fewer chores too, depending on how elaborate they are.
For the 6 year old especially, you could also ask for their input on developing a plan – lay out the problem in a way that it is clear you won’t accept them just not doing their chores and ask what they think is a good way to get them done. E.g., do they need dedicated chore time (only works for some tasks), should they loose a privilege or have a consequence when they don’t do them, etc. My son likes having input and is surprisingly thoughtful about it, and after all, part of what you want them to learn here is executive function skills.
Anonymous says
I like a chart for two situations:
1. Kid is resistant to doing chores and you want to offer a reward.
2. Kid needs help remembering and sticking to the daily routine, especially getting ready for school.
If you are just trying to get your kid to start feeding the dog or loading the dishwasher every day at the same time, I don’t think a chart is worth the hassle.
Anonymous says
I have an 11YO and want to restart her on a chore chart. Ugh. The floor is not a closet!
ElisaR says
haha. i think i was about 20 years old when i finally learned that the floor is not a closet. I hope you succeed in teaching her earlier than my mom did!
Anonymous says
This gives me hope! 20 is better than never.
Anon says
Sorry to report that I’m 39 and still use my floor as a closet.
SC says
Also still using my floor as a closet. And the top of my dresser. Putting away clothes is the hardest household task for me, and I can’t explain why.
Anon for this says
One of my dearest coworkers gave notice yesterday. I really looked up to her as someone with older children who made it through the tough years and thrived, and then this whole sh*tstorm finally got to her after almost two years. I’m just sad. I’m sad no one noticed how much she was struggling, and that they didn’t even try to keep her.
Anon says
One of my coworkers gave her notice yesterday because she is exhausted and wants to find a new job before having kids. She was talking about how this job isn’t sustainable for having a family, would want to see her kids more, be a better wife, etc. and it was all I could do not to deliver my resignation at the same time. After a good night’s sleep I remembered I love my job, DH is a SAHD, our kiddo is not deprived in any way, but man it was all the feels yesterday.
anne-on says
I get it. I feel for parents of younger kids suffering through daycare closures/no vaccines/etc. but I really wish someone had warned me how much older kids really need you in a emotional/mental way that can be almos tharder to provide. I can outsource cooking/cleaning/shopping but not talkng my kid through his big emotions/school issues/friend stuff/etc.
I swear that I’ve had intense conversations with just about every working mother I know of older kids to figure out how the heck they managed. The sad thing I’ve found is that almost nobody I’ve met worked the entire time through, or if they did, they had an Obama-like set up with VERY significant (almost live in) family help or an equal amount of paid help (like nanny and a house manager kind of help). I count every year of school I manage to keep working as a major win….
Boston Legal Eagle says
I hear this. I have several close coworkers who have older kids (teenagers and some starting to go off to college) and they spend a lot of time helping their kids with their emotional needs, on top of driving to sports practices and whatnot. I don’t think it will get easier working and also parenting, but at the same time, I don’t want to get too consumed in my kids’ lives and work provides a nice outlet for thinking about something else other than my worries for my kids. I am someone who will worry no matter what so I’m not sure that working less would solve that.
avocado says
I loved being a working mom until my daughter entered elementary school. My desire to become an SAHM has intensified every year since then. First it was the fact that there was no decent after-school care available. Then it was cobbling together summer coverage from a bunch of expensive camps that she hated and that only ran from 9:00 to 3:00. Next it was figuring out how to get her to after-school and summer sports practices, including two summers where I literally spent 4 hours per day in the car. Then it was supporting her academic and emotional needs. Now it’s dealing with the fallout from 1.5 years of on-line “learning” and the general incompetence of our school system. Yesterday I spent an hour on the phone with various people at the school trying to prevent them from completely rearranging her current course schedule because the guidance counselor does not understand the school’s own diploma requirements. That’s sorted now, but today it’s multiple calls with the pediatrician’s office over a paperwork issue that really should not be an issue. I spend the whole day juggling work and parenting administrivia, and then when she walks through the door I have to go into intensive parenting mode when I am totally exhausted and just want to make dinner and go to bed. On top of that I am senior enough at work that I have a whole staff of working moms with little kids dealing with day care and school closures and quarantine that I need to support. I’ve leaned out so much at work that I don’t think I can really lean back in once she goes to college. The other day I was thinking of all the little opportunities that I’d foregone over the years because I just didn’t have the bandwidth. Looking back, I wish I had been able to do one thing well instead of doing a half-a$$ed job of both parenting and working. I really feel like I’ve wasted my own life while short-changing my daughter in the process. I should have quit back around second grade, but that wasn’t possible because I need to maintain the ability to be the sole breadwinner if necessary for Reasons.
anon says
I SO feel the ‘I spend the whole day juggling work and parenting administrivia, and then when she walks through the door I have to go into intensive parenting mode when I am totally exhausted and just want to make dinner and go to bed’. Mine has ADHD and getting therapy/OT/insurance coverage for his treatment and being present enough to intensive parent/advocate for his needs at home and at school is just so.flipping.exhausting. At times work is a relief – I know how to do my job and I don’t have to manage anyone’s emotions but my own!
Anonymous says
2/e parent here. It’s killing me.
FVNC says
Avocado, your posts over the years have provided such helpful perspective. I just want to chime in to say, I think you’re probably selling yourself waaaaaay short.
What you’re going through sounds a lot like what my working mom dealt with back in the 90s when I was in middle school/high school. (My parents are married but my mom worked full time and did almost all the parenting…probably a typical boomer marriage.) Anyway, as a child, I noticed all the times my mom was there for me — not the times she couldn’t be, and not her stress or all the juggling she did. I was in a time-intensive sport (that i continued through college) and she drove me all over the dang county before I could drive myself. After I graduated high school, she went on to work another 20+ years and literally became THE worldwide expert in her field. To this day, I don’t know how she had the energy, but she hung in there and was able to have a second act, career-wise, once my parents were empty-nesters. All this to say — when I read your posts they really resonate with me, and I really admire both your dedication to doing right by your daughter and maintaining your career.
avocado says
Aw, thank you!
anon says
Another big +1 to this – my mom took a backseat to my dad’s job until about mid-high school when his company imploded around college – she had a big ‘second act’ promotion from about 50 through retirement and I know her salary + pension is a HUGE part of why my parents are able to have a very comfortable retirement vs. one with more struggles. I remind myself of that often in a ‘just keep swimming’ sort of way.
I am sure you’re doing an awesome job and I promise kids remember more of the good than the bad!
Boston Legal Eagle says
Concur. And who knows how you would have felt as a SAHM – you may have resented your partner, kids could have STILL complained (because that’s what kids do…) and had emotional drama that you couldn’t solve, felt unsatisfied, etc. And I’m sure you’re doing a much better job at your work than you give yourself credit for – for most of us here, our 70% is better than a lot of people’s 100%. Not too mention what a great role model you’re being for your employees and your daughter!
Anon says
+2 to the stories of moms having late in life career success. My mom is a professor who took major career setbacks (by choice) when I was born – two years unpaid leave of absence to be a fulltime SAHM, then working very part time (basically just showing up to teach her classes twice a week) until I started first grade, and even then working well less than 40 hours so she could be home with me every afternoon after school. She leaned in hard when I was in middle and high school, while also supporting me in a demanding sport than involved a lot of travel, and more than pulling her weight at home (my dad was…not 50-50 on parenting or chores, let’s just leave it at that). By the time I was out of college she was a major superstar in her research field and she became a dean a few years ago, when she was in her late 60s and already a grandmother.
I’m so proud of her, very grateful that we had so much time together when I was little (she was the Girl Scout leader, room mom, made homemade Halloween costumes, all that) and not at all resentful of the fact that she worked quite a bit while I was a teen. Also her career success resulted in subsidized family trips to Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea and France when I was a teen, which was incredible.
Anon says
I am so sorry. I am in the same boat as your colleague. I know people look up to me and are impressed that I do my higher profile job with little kids. But I am also at the end of my rope. I held it together really well for TWO YEARS (only 50 weeks longer than planned). I am sick of being scared my kids will get sick and sick of being in 3 billion meetings each week. I am sick of feeling disconnected from my work and I have no desire to add a commute back to my life. I am sick of people putting so much sh*t ahead of people’s health and safety. I am sick of all of it. I want to quit. I supervise a lot of people who have to work in-person so I only feel guilty about whining. It all sucks.
I was actually going to ask you all to talk me out of quitting my job…
Anon says
i’ll bite and talk you out of quitting your job. what do you mean by 50 weeks longer than planned? do you want to be a SAHM? or do you just need a break? and what would you like to do during said break. is a leave of absence an option? have some mental health conditions on paper so you can take FMLA? if your job is one that will need to be in-person again one day, can you look for a remote job? i honestly am not cut out to be a sahm and have so much admiration for the women who are. before i had kids i thought it looked glamorous, but now – no i do not want to spend all day, every day with my two kids under the age of 4. i love them dearly, but i do not have the patience for that. and i worry to much – what if DH gets sick, etc.
Anon says
Not Anon at 9:59 and I don’t want to be a full-time SAHM, but I would love to quit my job and keep my kids in 9-3 daycare/school. I’d have more time for them than I do currently (they’re currently in care ~8:30-5) but would get a lot of the benefits of being a SAHM. We could afford it and honestly the only thing holding me back at this point is the possibility of divorce (I’m less worried about death/disability because you can insure against that, and we do).
Anon says
Are you me? I also think about quitting and send kids to daycare/school. It would give me an emotional and mental break during the day so I can be a good partner and parent. Right now I am neither. I’m just angry and yelling all the time.
Anon says
Yeah the idea of quitting my job and still paying for 30 hours/week of daycare sounds ridiculously indulgent and makes me feel lazy, but then I remember that’s the schedule that all SAHMs have once their youngest child starts K, so….
Agreed says
There should be divorce insurance. Is this a Thing?
Agreed says
After I asked I realized it’s definitely not because people could so easily “fake” it to get the money. So it would never work. Darn!
Anon says
I think divorce insurance is called wealthy parents who set up a trust for you that your spouse can’t access. (I don’t have this but definitely wish I did!)
Anon says
I am the one thinking about quitting. By 50 extra weeks, I mean that we were only supposed to see to stay home two weeks and Covid would be all better (so it’s really like 94 extra weeks…). I keep pumping myself up for “this is short. This isn’t life forever.” But maybe it is life forever and that’s crushing my spirit. I need to rethink a lot of the long term if it becomes routine to have a total loss of child care. And I don’t know how much harder it will be next year when my oldest starts K.
I have started looking for other jobs, but being senior/high-profile has been a big part of my job for a long time. It’s hard to imagine going to a different role. And for my role, I have a really cushy gig. Honestly, it is all self-imposed stress – feeling guilty my staff have to work in person, feeling bad the my youngest cannot be vaccinated, etc.
Anon says
while you probably do not have time for this it sounds like you could benefit from some therapy. you recognize that some of it is self imposed stress, so you need to find a way to get out of your head. i have no idea what your role is, but yes some jobs do need to be done in-person and some don’t. and i get that it feels icky at times, but you sound like a good boss and i am sure you are trying to protect your staff to the extent possible that you can under the circumstances. can you re-think your childcare? i do not know your budget, but there are lots of options like nannies, au pairs, etc. hopefully by next school year we will have vaccines for all kids. lots of hugs. you are doing great! and while yes this has been life for almost two years i do not think it is forever. even if it ends up being 3 years, that is a very very long time in one sense (i have 3 year old twins, so that’s their whole life so far), but it’s a small percentage of what i hope will be a longer life for them
Anon says
Our public schools don’t make vaccinated people quarantine for exposure, so I’m definitely holding out hope that K will be better than daycare (my kid’s not vaccinated but some of her classmates are, and they still close the room for 14 days every time).
Anon says
You all are so kind! Thank you so much for your nice responses. I think I will try to get someone to talk to (or something) around my guilt about staff working in person, since that is the one that steals the most joy from my job.
Anonymous says
Hi. I could have written your post and am actually worried people I know in real life will think you are me. Hugs. This week/season is so so so hard.
OP says
What I would have said to my colleague if she had shared earlier (before submitting notice) was what we’ve said on here before – lean out and do 80% and see how long it takes for people to notice. Don’t hold yourself to a higher standard than your peers or your org does.
Or formally ask to divest some of your role/function/portfolio. Another mentor of mine (in academia) literally split her group – she took one of her postdocs, got her minted into a PI, and gave her half the group. Obviously she had to have her university’s blessing on this plan but she basically said, you do this or I’m quitting entirely. I think my coworker (we’re in the private sector) could have given a similar warning to her management. Having someone contribute 50-80% is better than zero percent.
Anonymous says
I literally just did this. Got a junior colleague named PI on one of my projects and handed it off. She is going to give it much more attention than I ever could. I will remain involved to consult and support her as needed, but she will do all the heavy lifting. I am going to put it in my performance review as an achievement under “staff development.”
Anonymous says
I am your coworker except that I can’t quit. My primary goal at work has been to make sure no one notices how much I am struggling. It is possible that your coworker handled it the same way so no one could have seen it coming.
EDAnon says
I agree with this. I struggle on and off and spend a lot of time hiding it. I probably shouldn’t but others have it so much harder that I want to help them rather than take all the help myself.
Anonymous says
My boss has literally told me that I need to hide the fact that I’m struggling because I am senior.
OP says
I think you’re right, but what I am saying is, I wish she had voiced her concerns and had management listen (maybe she did raise it, but she was ignored – I don’t know that side of the story) so they wouldn’t keep piling work on her, instead of letting it build up until she just walked away from it all. She’s a great employee and a huge loss to the org.
Anon says
Has anyone found Bluey twin sheet sets for sale in the US? This is all my almost 4 year old wants for her birthday and it’s surprisingly hard to find – maybe a licensing issue? I checked Etsy and there a bunch of blankets and some crib/bassinet bedding, but no twin sheets. I’m at the point where I’m ready to take a trip to Australia with an empty suitcase…except Americans can’t enter!
AIMS says
Etsy sells bluey fabric by the yard and I bet you can just pay someone to sew it into a sheet set 9maybe your local tailor/dry cleaner can even do it. Easier than Australia.
AIMS says
Or just message the sellers of the crib bedding and ask if they can make you a twin set. I bet someone would be happy to do it.
Anon says
I did message a couple and they said they can’t make twin sheets – probably for the reason mentioned below.
AIMS says
HMM, interesting! Maybe get the pillowcase and throw blanket that seems available and “match” some simple blue sheets and create your own?
Anonymous says
A pillowcase and throw blanket should be plenty thrilling! Kids love themed pillowcases even without matching sheets. It’s likely that kiddo won’t even think about the fact that her existing sheets don’t match the pillowcase. It will just bug you as a parent if you like everything to coordinate.
Anonymous says
Fabric by the yard will not work for sheets–it’s usually only 44″ wide, so you’d need a seam down the middle. It will work for pillowcases, and throw pillows, though.
Anonymous says
If you sew at all, do a web search for “French seam pillowcase.” They are super simple and come out really nicely.
Anonymous says
How much communication are you having with your daycare? I’ve posted before about it but my son is older now – 14 months – and it still feels like an issue. For example, it just came up after a covid exposure that he’s in the infant room, which is supposedly for nonwalkers. Maybe there is some delay because of closures etc but he shouldn’t be in that room anymore. I’ve seen pictures online of him in the toddler room so I know he’s there sometimes? I feel like there should be discussion of this with me. I also just feel like I barely know what they do all day, and am hoping there’s more structured activities of some sort – is this an unreasonable expectation? I don’t feel all that confident that these things are going to improve because it’s been a long-standing issue, they are trying to hire more teachers, and I know that the staff is loving and nurturing. Last thing – I hear from other people that their daycares are the catalyst for getting off bottles, and other growth type things whereas all of that comes from me! What’s your experience with that? Look obviously right now my hope is just for childcare, period, but we’re reevaluating what we want in the future given this inflection point and seeing how well I feel like he does at home (obviously).
Anon says
My daughter started at 16 months, so I don’t have a sense for how they handle issues like bottles, but generally they’ve taken the lead on a lot of skills like getting dressed and using utensils while eating. Not knowing what room he’s in seems really weird. We drop off in the classroom (last year it was at the classroom door b/c Covid) – do you have to drop off outside?
OP says
Yes dropoff is to the director for all kids in the main office/reception area. How do you know about the utensils and getting dressed skills – is it from a daily report kind of thing? This is really helpful to hear about what I should/should not expect, thanks! And I agree about the room! It’s not even clear which teachers are in which rooms!
Anonymous says
My kiddo is 16 mos. We’ve completely taken the lead with bottles, although I definitely talked to the teacher throughout the process to see where the other kids in her class were with dropping bottles (at that point, the kids were all on the same schedule, and my kid got serious bottle jealousy, so it was a lot easier if she saw that a friend also wasn’t having a bottle at that time). The teachers have taken the lead on things like using utensils. We know which teacher is in the room with her, save for maybe the last 30 min of the day during pickup time, and before the current covid surge, we knew if she’d been moved to another room because of staffing issues. If she was moved, it was always to the infant room she was in until this fall (and she still had “friends” in that room), or, more recently now that she’s walking, it’s to the slightly older toddler room next door to her room, and she knows that teacher very well (that teacher was previously in the infant room she was in) and has seen those kids on the playground. So, if she’s moved for part of a day, it’s always to a room with familiar faces. Otherwise, we get updates throughout the day for snacks/meals, diaper changes, and nap. We also get several photos a week, maybe not quite daily. We also get an “incident report” alert if she falls over, etc.
Anon says
It seems really strange that you don’t even know what room your child is in. I definitely don’t think that is the norm for daycare centers. Our daycare is a bit more on the laid back side as far as skills go. They just follow the parents’ lead, and that is actually what I would prefer. My child has always been on the later side to acquire new skills, so I don’t need daycare pressuring me that my new 3 year old should be able to put on her shoes independently, etc. when I know she will do it on her time. In other words, I think it is normal for some daycares not to take the lead on stopping bottles, but it is not within the normal range to not even communicate about what room your child is in/who is taking care of your child during the day.
For what it’s worth, we will be switching daycares next year (hello waiting lists) for one that provides a bit more structure and is known to be more organized than our current center. A lack of communication also probably would have led me in the direction of switching daycares.
Anonymous says
Pre-pandemic, our day care would combine rooms at the beginning and end of the day or when numbers were otherwise low. In OP’s shoes, I’d ask if this is what’s happening.
Anon says
That seems like a weird thing to do in the pandemic though with all the emphasis on cohorting and keeping each cohort separate. Does that mean the whole school shuts down for every positive case?
Anonymous says
Find a new day care
AwayEmily says
We are veterans of five daycares now and level/type of communication has varied so much between them. One of the reasons I love our current one is that they genuinely seem to love chatting with us, either over text or in person at dropoff/pickup (now that we actually get to see them again). One of our previous ones barely told us anything at all, and I found it super frustrating. I think your instinct is right that things probably aren’t going to change if it’s the norm, and so the question is whether it’s a dealbreaker (and maybe it’s not if you love everything else about the place!).
Deep End says
We are still dropping off at the door outside our daycare. We have been inside exactly once – over a year and a half ago – when we first toured the center. We are in NYC and the COVID guidelines on that never changed. It is a small center so we don’t get daily reports or have daily pictures or videos or anything. We can go weeks without any significant update. I will occasionally ask the teacher at pick up questions about how it is going, anything to worry about, etc. They also give me updates sometimes at pick up or drop off when something new has happened – her teacher told me when she moved up to the toddler room, and when she started sitting with the kids at the table rather than in the high chair. Otherwise, it is pretty hard not knowing what is going on daily. As far as helping with transitions, at the same time my daughter started the toddler room (12 months, which was a bit early but she was mobile and it’s a small center), we gave them straw cups rather than bottles to use. They have her where she will drink milk out of the cup at daycare but absolutely refuses any milk cup at home and demands a bottle. We’ve tried multiple times and just have given in to her using a bottle until college (kidding…hopefully).
Anon says
So, we had a similar issue with our room. DS is 9 months, started daycare at 5 months. We do drop off outside and are still not allowed in the building. When he started, there were 4 newborns (12 weeks or younger), and he was put in a mixed age room with kids ranging up to 18 months. We knew he was the youngest in his room, but did not really realize how much younger until we found out at 7 months that he was the only kid in the room not walking… and it had turned into a toddler room. They moved him down to the infant room and added another teacher to the infant room.. now there are 8 infants in that room and he is the oldest.
During this whole time, we were getting really good communication from the daycare about what milestones he was hitting and how his day was– I think the stuff about the room got lost in the mix because normally, a parent would be able to see the room and know what was going on. That being said, we do typically have to ask questions about milestones, etc. Like we get told when he does something (like sit unassisted), but we really have to ask if he is where he should be for his age. The teachers tend to look at the class as a group, so if a kid was behind the group, they would say something… but he is the oldest, so he isn’t going to be behind for the group but might be for his age. Like, we just asked for an evaluation for him because he is having some gross motor issues that do not put him behind the group, but he is possibly behind for his age. You very much have to advocate for your kid unfortunately. Our daycare center also has parent-teacher conferences every 6 months to talk through issues like milestones, etc., but that really isn’t frequent enough for infants/toddler IMHO.
Pogo says
I have always been on the higher end of communication with our providers, almost daily for kids of that age (how long slept and how much milk taken, etc). Particularly because as you state we are dealing with bottle to sippy transition, 2 to 1 nap transition, and trying new foods.
For my older son, we are actually moving him up to a new room right now and it was a huge deal – we got an official email, a letter from the new teacher (who introduced herself at drop off one day), there was a little email traffic about rules around transitioning and ‘visiting’ the new rooms w/ COVID (turns out the BOH actually won’t let them do that, it’s a clean cut from one room to another, old teacher can stop and say hi at the doorway if kiddo is having trouble).
I would personally want more communication than you are getting, even in COVID times (I have never been in my son’s classroom; have only been inside the door once).
OP says
Yes dropoff is to the director for all kids in the main office/reception area. How do you know about the utensils and getting dressed skills – is it from a daily report kind of thing? This is really helpful to hear about what I should/should not expect, thanks! And I agree about the room! It’s not even clear which teachers are in which rooms!
Anon says
We just noticed she had a lot of skills we didn’t teach her. We’re definitely lazy parents though.
AwayEmily says
Any experiences with transverse babies/ECV? I just had my 36-week ultrasound and she’s transverse oblique. Going back for another scan in a week and then they’ll schedule an ECV if she’s still sideways. If that doesn’t work, then they’ll schedule a C-section for 39 weeks.
This is my third…my second was transverse at 34 weeks and did manage to turn. But they seem more concerned about it this time for whatever reason. Is the spinning babies thing worth trying?
Mary Moo Cow says
My first was transverse and my doctor mentioned manual manipulation turning with a very skeptical facial expression and described as “fairly medieval,” but also gave me the name of the clinic in town who does it. I opted not to try and after trying some old wives tales for a week, I gave up and accepted that I would be having a c-section. However, I know someone who tried the manipulation and it worked! It is a crapshoot, I think. As for being more worried about it, just my experience, but my doctor was more worried about me and my second pregnancy, I think because I previously had a c-section and she knew me better. I think the prevailing wisdom in the medical community is that while every pregnancy is different, every successive pregnancy is worth more attention.
Hugs for getting through this week; I know it will be a long one!
Anon says
I thought statistically first time moms were more at risk?
Anonymous says
If your doctor is skeptical or dismissive of ECV, I’d ask why. Is it because s/he thinks it isn’t effective, or because there are risks? If it were me, and the risks were low, I’d try just about anything to avoid a c-section. Keep in mind that your OB’s incentive is to steer you towards a c-section. It’s more predictable for them to schedule than spontaneous labor, it’s faster than a v-birth, and they make more money, and they are not the one who has to deal with recovering from major surgery.
Anonymous says
That’s a really toxic viewpoint. My obgyn’s priority was the same as mine- a healthy baby outside my body.
Anonymous says
It’s well understood that doctors’ treatment recommendations are biased towards their own specialties. OB/GYNs are surgeons, so they lean towards surgery. If you have a sports injury, you talk to a sports medicine doctor and an orthopedic surgeon to get all the options, non-surgical and surgical. Etc.
Anonymous says
Eh, my priority was a healthy baby outside my body with the least unpleasant delivery and recovery possible. My doctor did not care one whit about the ease of delivery and recovery from my perspective. She was clearly just humoring me in accommodating my desire for an unmedicated v-birth. It wasn’t her body–why should she care?
c section says
Yeah, its toxic. I read so many horror stories about C sections AVOID AT ALL COST, “MAJOR SURGERY” being big buzz words. I had one, and it was fine. I was up and about in a day. I was also an old (but in decent physical shape). I had an ovarian cyst removed and the recovery was way worse. It is better recovery wise to schedule, vs. push forever and then have one, but a C section is not the horror the internet puts out there FOR MANY PEOPLE. Just putting this out there because maybe a person in my shoes needs some reassurance after reading that post.
NYCer says
Yeah, my OBGYN was the one who strongly encouraged that I try the ECV. I was more like hmm I’m fine with a C-section (which is what I ended up with anyways).
My OBGYN wasn’t the doctor who performed the ECV. A specialist at the hospital tried it.
2 Cents says
My doctor was also skeptical bc baby had been transverse the whole pregnancy and he was worried they’d move baby and baby would go right back. He was head down, but two hours later was shoulder first, then moved back to his favorite position. I had a c section — scariest part for me was staying still enough for the epidural! I was up and walking less than a day later. I was an old, this was my first, I wasn’t in great shape, I have other health issues. Would have another c section if it meant no distress for anyone again.
Anon says
no experience with my baby turning, but ask if your hospital does TAP blocks if you need a csection. It is a newish thing that helps with pain. my friend had to advocate for herself to get one because they are not standard procedure at her hospital, but she is glad that she did because it made her second csection better than her first.
busybee says
Mine was breech at 38 weeks. I opted not to do an ECV and had a scheduled c section at 39 weeks. I thought an ECV sounded like a lot of angst and not much of a guarantee.I did IVF and was just really over the painful procedures and wasn’t interested in another one. Imagine my surprise when we got to the hospital for my c section and the ultrasound showed she flipped! I had no idea. I didn’t do anything special; she just turned on her own.
NYCer says
My older daughter was breech, and I had an (attempted) ECV at 37 weeks. It did not work. I had read a lot of stories about how painful it is, so I was kind of expecting the worst. It honestly was not that painful, but it was an extremely WEIRD feeling. I tried spinning babies, etc. and was also unsuccessful. In any event, I had a scheduled c-section shortly thereafter, and it was totally fine. In retrospect, I am not sure the ECV was totally worth it, but no harm done.
FWIW, my doctor told me ECV is generally more successful for later pregnancies (it was my first).
So Anon says
My second was transverse until 36/37 weeks. I did all the spinning babies stuff. No idea if it helped but she did turn around that time. It was the most bizarre feeling, and I can still remember exactly where I was even though it was 8-9 years ago. She stayed head down until 41+ weeks, which a separate but consistent story about how my daughter is wonderfully stubborn and does things on her own timeline.
Boston Legal Eagle says
I should have known that my first would be stubborn when he was born two weeks overdue! Second was born on his due date…
Anon says
Another strong-willed kid here who was overdue. I’m sure she would have made it until at least 41 weeks but she was evicted at 40w3d because she kept grabbing her cord and decelerating her heart rate.
anon says
I had the exact same experience. I don’t know if it was the spinning babies or what but I did kind of enjoy spending so much time upside down!
anon. says
My first was transverse, and I discussed ECV with my OBGYN on a Friday (this was years ago now). I texted her over the weekend that I wanted to do it and would call her office Monday to schedule. I went into labor Sunday night… so never tried ECV.
Anon says
Can’t comment on whether or not spinning babies is worth trying, but if you’re in Boston metro area, I know that Bec Conant / Om Births offer classes.
anon says
Yes, ECV turned my breech at 37 weeks. I did do spinning babies beforehand, and I think it was helpful in the margins in that it made me focus on stretching and positioning, and I think the exercises did loosen up tight ligaments on one side of my uterus. The ECV was uncomfortable but not horrible. They told me ahead of time it was 50/50 chance of working. I came into L&D, they ultrasounded to get a good look, then my doc and a resident attempted to flip her both directions. Second try worked, and they had me stay for an hour or two of monitoring after. I would assume transverse is a bit easier to encourage into the right position, but it really all depends so much on internal anatomy and baby presentation. I will say, btw, that spinning babies was correct in my case that breech/transverse babies, once flipped, are more likely to have posterior presentation at birth, which makes delivery harder. Probably whatever issue caused the breech in the first place is still at play even when head down.
Also, your doc is probably concerned because it’s your third and things could be very bad if you had, say, a sudden water break and very fast labor with a transverse presentation, and couldn’t make it to the hospital.
Anonymous says
So interesting re. posterior presentation! Mine was breech, spontaneously flipped at the last minute, and came out posterior. Delivery was still doable, but definitely more difficult.
R says
If you’re open to trying acupuncture and there are any providers in your area who specialize in pregnancy issues, it’s worth a shot. My baby was breech/transverse at 37 weeks and I had an ECV scheduled, but my nurse midwife suggested trying acupuncture ahead of time. I was pretty skeptical, but figured I didn’t have much to lose. I went to a local acupuncture clinic first and I actually felt the baby start to turn during the treatment, but then he quickly turned right back to where he started. I scheduled another session the night before my ECV with a highly recommended acupuncturist who did home visits, and she said she was focusing on relieving tension and allowing me to relax. The next day was the one and only day of my third trimester that I didn’t have terrible pelvic and hip pain, and I showed up to the hospital for the ECV only to learn that the baby had turned overnight. It’s entirely possible that it was coincidental, but I definitely felt like it helped.
Anon Lawyer says
Mine did not turn with the spinning babies stuff (but honestly I didn’t work that hard at it) or acupuncture and then my water broke before I could meet with a doctor about the ECV (I had been with hospital midwives before that). But I had fibroids that contributed to her being in that position so I think that probably intervention wasn’t super likely to help. I was a little reluctant to have the ECV for that reason and that’s why I wanted to meet with an OB first
FWIW, I do think it’s true that recovery from a c section is often much easier if you didn’t labor first.
anon says
My baby was transverse until week 38. I was having a scheduled C section for other reasons. But she flipped to head down right at the end.
AwayEmily says
Thanks all, this is super helpful. The ECV (assuming it needs to happen) will be at the hospital at 38 weeks, with an epidural (which apparently increases success rates). If the ECV doesn’t work then I am definitely scheduling a C-section for 39 weeks. I would much, much rather have a scheduled C than gamble on the baby turning on her own and risk something going wrong when I went into labor (especially given all the COVID staff shortages). I know a C-section is major surgery but for me, it’s not worth the risk to the baby to try to avoid it. And although I haven’t had one myself, my friends who had scheduled Cs (as opposed to laboring first) largely had positive experiences.
In the meantime, gonna try some baby-spinning! I have to admit it all seems kind of farfetched (lying upside down on an ironing board? really?) but I suppose it can’t hurt.
anon says
I mostly did headstands with my feet on the couch. I don’t think I’d do an ironing board!
lawsuited says
I did spinning babies and would highly recommend it. Not because I think it turns babies (although mine did ultimate cooperate and turn head down) but because it is probably the hardest I have ever, ever laughed.
Anon says
My youngest will be in full day prek next year and so it’s time for me to figure out my childcare arrangements. My husband and I both work more-than-full time jobs, and we’ve had a full time nanny since I went back to work after my son was born. In the fall I’ll have a 6 year old and a 4 year old both in school from 9-2, so a full time nanny seems unnecessary (and while I haven’t asked her I somewhat doubt she’d be interested in transitioning to a housekeeper type role; that’s been kind of a bone of contention in our relationship from the beginning, i.e. she’s not really willing to do housekeeping tasks –though she’s a great nanny). If you’ve moved to a part time childcare set up, how have you handled summers, holidays, sick days? How did you find your part time sitter? I’m in NYC where I’m told finding a part time sitter is hard. Oh and my son I think will have access to some after school programming at his new school next year (covid depending) but not my daughter. Any advice appreciated!
AIMS says
Also in NYC. For pre-K, we weren’t able to secure a spot in our zoned school, which turned out to be a huge blessing in disguise. Because the city does not have enough spots in its existing schools, it partners with private nursery schools for pre-k and 3k and we ended up in one that had a paid after school option. Now, my older kid is in 1st grade and the youngest one will be in preK next year and we could probably get him into the zoned school based on a sibling preference but we are intentionally sticking with the private preK for the paid after school. 1st grader will be in afterschool.
Of course the problem is that for school afterschool pick up is at 5. So you may still need a nanny. We just alternate days (one person goes in early if needed) and it’s stressful but good enough for us. In terms of what others do, you can continue paying your current nanny, we have a friend whose nanny basically comes a bit earlier and does some errands for her (so not housekeeping but other useful things like pick up a few groceries, go to post office, drop off dry cleaning, pick up present, etc.) and stays later until they get home. So kind of a 12-7 schedule. There are also services that help – I haven’t used it, but check out curatedcare dot com for this…
For summer we do camp. You have to sign up early and there are about 2 weeks that may be w/o coverage so we try to plan our vacation around that and get grandparents to help too. Often teachers or counselors can also help – in my little one’s pre school the teachers were willing to babysit on those off weeks so you can cobble together a week or two of care. Again, not easy and requires planning ahead but can be done.
Anonymous says
+1 to considering a private UPK program – ours had an amazing, affordable afterschool. That said, a number of the public preKs have afterschool options available, or did before the pandemic at least.
I’m in NYC and we do school-based afterschool programs during the year. (Our afterschools have always been open until 6). My husband is a teacher, so he can be home by 6 and we have less issues with coverage during holidays than some, but professional development days are still a problem. If the afterschool does a one day or half-day camp, we do that, if not I take a day off. In the summer we do some camps to provide more structure and a break for my husband. I have a number of friends with afterschool sitters, so I think they do exist.
Also, seconding AIMS re: weeks in which coverage does not exist. Our afterschool programs tend to not start the first week of school (and some end before the last day for inexplicable reasons), and the weeks just before and after labor day tend to have a dearth of camps. Teachers go back 2 days before kids do after labor day, and I’m always scrambling that week. So if you can find a sitter you will have less scrambling to do. For us it is not cost effective; for 2 kids it probably would be.
anne-on says
That’s about the time when most parents I know swapped to an after school sitter, or a house-manager type of role. You’ll really need someone able to drive/run errands/start dinner/supervise homework more than you do a full time nanny. Can you explicitly tell your nanny now that you need her to cover more of this type of work, and that if that’s not a fit then you’ll need to look for someone else?
Our local area has a ‘sitters of my city’ facebook group – I posted a job posting there and interviewed found our sitter that way. Fwiw, it’s harder to do a ‘split schedule’ – 2 hours in the AM/3-4 hours in the PM, most people want at least 25 hours a week, all afternoon or all morning. For holidays/school days off we tend to just muddle through until our sitter arrives in the afternoon, for summer times we do day camps that end at 2-3 and just use our sitter (so yes, we pay for both camp and the sitter, joys of being a parent).
Anon says
so, would you want a housekeeper/nanny? because my advice is to maybe find a full-time nanny who is also interested/willing to do the housekeeping work. i lived in nyc as a kid and a lot of people had this arrangement since so many NYCer have big jobs. i think that would be best for your situation
NYCer says
+1. If both spouses have big jobs, this set up definitely provides the most flexibility. As AIMS pointed out, most aftercare programs at school end at 5-5:30 pm.
Anonymous says
WWYD. After 15 years in the industry, i started my own consulting firm. I work about 20 hours/week freelancing. I gross about $110k/year (but have to pay lots of self employed taxes). DH works at a job he’s had for 9 years and he’s had several promotions and various roles. He’s now making $200k +$130k bonus and works barely 40 hours/week. There were times he’s had roles and been working 60++ hours/week. We are both now permanently WFH.
Kids are in preschool, kindergarten and 2nd grade. DH and I are late 30s.
I just got an offer for a full time role that would be about $300k + $50-100k/year bonus. WFH but once COVID passes, it will involve a fair amount of travel (exec level type stuff, not on site at client type work). It would be a big challenge and a high profile role, but it would also be a TON of work.
On the home front, DH couldn’t really work full time anymore, nor would he need to as salary-wise, I’d be making the same or more than the two of us do right now. His role/skill set doesn’t naturally lend itself to part time/contracting type work like mine does. He’s willing to be a SAHD, or take a part time board seat or something for a few years.
I just….am not mentally ready to take this job. I really like my cushy consultant lifestyle where I get to breeze in and out of companies and tell them how to fix their problems.
We don’t have a work-life balance issue right now (current endless quarantining aside).
Am I being lazy in turning it down? Will I regret not taking this big (but not particularly needed) opportunity in 10-15 years? My current consulting gig allows me to stay plugged in and relevant to the industry, so in the doomsday scenarios (death, divorce) I could get a better paying job with benefits- probably not one like the one being offered, but close enough.
anon says
Professional ambition is not a virtue, it’s a characteristic. It is perfectly fine and not lazy to decide that success, for you, looks like the life you have now – a life you’re both happy with and that works for you financially.
Spirograph says
“Professional ambition is not a virtue, it’s a characteristic.”
I love this so much, thank you.
NYCer says
I would definitely not take the new job unless you really need more money, which is does not seem to be the case. [Caveat is that I am less ambitious than many on this board.]
Mary Moo Cow says
I can’t speak to regret, but I say nope, you are not being lazy in turning it down. You sound content in your job: you said you really like it! So why consider leaving it? Is it just the money motivating you? I have a salary gig but DH has a consultant gig and his goal for this year is to earn more by doing less work. To that end, he’s had coffee with a friend who does just that and renegotiated his rates with major clients and hired a virtual assistant to outsource work so he can take on more work and earn more. Are any of these options for you to scale up earning potential while making more money?
I have a Pre-K and 1st grade, and man is the home front different than it was when they were both in full time daycare. From the posters above, I can only imagine it gets harder/different: bigger kids, bigger problems. Why trade what’s working for you now for headaches of travel and a ton of work when from what others have said, there are more logistical and emotional challenges ahead with older elementary kids? This is probably the part of me that counts down the years until my student loans are forgiven and dreams about quitting to be a SAHM with kids in full time elementary school, though.
Anonymous says
If your husband becomes a SAHD, your HHI will actually decrease. I would not trade in a great lifestyle and giant HHI for a horribly stressful lifestyle and somewhat less giant HHI, but YMMV.
Anonymous says
OP here. It would be a wash, maybe a little higher take home if I took the role. The math gets funny in bonus comp and taxes and tax free retirement vehicles but when we ran the numbers, it was basically a slight increase in HHI. And growth potential.
Katy says
For what is it worth I am struggling with a similar dilemma.
I was laid off a few months ago. Today I have a job offer that is a lateral-ish move into a larger organization that is highly reputable but feels like a step back because I would be several steps removed from the leadership table. Salary is good. Job would be interesting but not a stream here.
Alternatively i am In advanced discussions for a c suite position at an interesting smaller public company. Lots of responsibility. Basically my dream job. BUT I would have to move across the country to a much larger city where life would just be harder / more expensive…. My hubby is struggling with the idea of the move.
It feels like the cowards way out to take the first job. I am worried our marriage would suffer with the move / extra stress.
Not helpful but I feel you.
Anonymous says
Your decision is obvious. You take the perfectly reasonable good job you’ve been offered that isn’t massively destructive to your spouse.
Anon says
Sounds like you don’t want to take it, make plenty of money combined already, and enjoy your current lifestyle/schedule. You will be glad to have the extra time and flexibility as your kids get older. IMO, choose what makes you happy and suits your family now, without borrowing trouble for 15 years down the road.
Anon says
+1
Don’t take it. You sound happy where you are!
Anon says
You mentioned what happens to your career if you stay in consulting but need to ramp up; you haven’t mentioned what happens to your husband’s career if he becomes a SAHD and something happens to you.
On the flip side, you could throw money at the problem, especially with him working from home. With a combined salary of $500k, plus $200k in bonuses, you pay people to clean your house, do your laundry, drop off your kids in the morning, and cook your food. If that isn’t a life you want, consider if there is another job that’s out there for you, maybe doubling or tripling your salary but not involving a huge amount of extra work or travel.
Anonymous says
You’re already rich. You don’t need to sacrifice your life to be even richer.
Spirograph says
Just because you *can* do something doesn’t mean you *should.* I would turn it down, no question. If you are not mentally ready to take the job, you don’t need the money, and you’re happy with current balance and lifestyle, why would you make a change? Your situation sounds pretty ideal to me!
EDAnon says
Do you think this is the only time you will get this kind of offer? It sounds like you’re connected and respected. Maybe you will get a similar opportunity in a few years. If you thinks that’s likely/possible, then it makes it easier to pass on this one.
Anon says
I just made a similar choice to take it and…I totally regret it. I think the opportunity will be there in the future and the money/ mental health and life satisfaction trade off was not right. I would take it back if I could.
Fallen says
I don’t anyone mentioned this yet so I thought I would put in my two cents, but as someone who went from working for others in your typical corporate job to *mostly* working for myself (I say mostly bc have my own private practice and run my own lab, so I technically do have a boss in academia, just not one I interact with much or tells me what to do), I wouldn’t under-estimate the freedom of your own gig. Do you think you will find it as fun/motivating to work for someone else? What will it feel like to have someone else telling you what to do? And what about the people? Maybe it will be more fun to work more with others? But what if your new boss is a PIA to work with? Just some more things to think through other than the money/hours/travel.
Anonymous says
Thanks, all. The answer is really that I don’t want to give up our sweet situation where neither of us work very hard, are home for our kids, and make all the money we need. But dangling a big fancy role in front of me is tempting! It’s hard to say no! It’s validating that I could land this kind of job, since it’s been a while since I earned more than DH, but it’s because I can more easily consult than he can.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
I think this is a great article, and posting because while I think this community is largely, mostly positive, there are often times I feel like it’s a jump to “well me and spouse are 50/50, I wouldn’t have married someone who wasn’t”.
“Unequal partnerships are not always foreseeable or easy to avoid. Once a couple is enmeshed, both staying and leaving can bring deep suffering. So let’s stop blaming women. A working mother without a supportive spouse is struggling enough; she doesn’t need peers proclaiming that they’ve figured it out and suggesting that she could too if she were smart enough or feminist enough or knew how to ask.”
https://hbr.org/2022/01/stop-telling-working-women-they-just-need-an-equal-partnership-at-home
Anonymous says
That quote hits the nail on the head. You really can’t foresee how your spouse and your relationship will evolve over the years or the impact that kids will have on your spouse and your marriage. Some men who truly believe that they are incredibly egalitarian, that they are supporting their wives’ careers, and that they are great parents just aren’t capable of even understanding what kids need, much less delivering it. Then you have men who seem progressive and supportive of their wives’ careers but are unwilling to adjust their expectations when things get tough and it would really make sense for one parent to step back and SAH. A lot of “progressive” men just want a different sort of trophy wife–one who is smart and makes great conversation and about whose accomplishments they can brag, but who also keeps the household running and puts gourmet meals on the table and is a tiger mom who raises perfect tiger cubs. Because they never saw their own fathers lift a finger around the house, they really believe that they are equal partners when they run a few loads of laundry and unload the dishwasher. They expect children to instantly obey every command out of “respect.” They don’t understand that schools expect an insane degree of parental involvement that was not expected of their own mothers, and they don’t comprehend that the consequences of letting a child “figure it out for himself” are dramatic and permanent in a way they weren’t 20 or 30 years ago. You can’t know any of this when you and your partner are young and childless and getting engaged.
Dina says
I feel like I know a lot of people in that “different sort of trophy wife” position. The moms have hard jobs, but still do all of that. My mom to some extent and many of her friends are definitely in that category. The husbands just don’t seem to have the capacity , which I don’t know is like learned incompetence or not caring or bing a pig or what. And some of these guys definitely think they’re very fair and even. It’s just unfair.
anon says
This – there is SO much more of a push for parental involvement in school and no, you really can’t ‘just chill out and let kids figure it out’ especially in high school (directly impacts college options) or if there are any special needs (low-support needs autism/ADHD doesn’t equal NO support needs) and in my circles moms are the ones managing 75% of the care involved – dad may take the kid to appointments but mom is the one finding the specialists/working her network to get referrals/calling the providers to get in/calling the insurance provider to get support covered.
I also know SO many women who are just now realizing they themslves are not neurotypical because boomer parents didn’t do psychiatric help so we all just muddled through. Could we do that with our kids and hope for the best? Sure. Are we going to? Heck no.
Anonymous says
Or the dads actively resist diagnosis and intervention because they don’t want to “label” their kids.
Anonymous says
+1 — I have a kid with ASD-1 and she could go to college and live independently and have a job, but lord, we are having to teach her how to be independent step-by-step in the adulting thing now while she’s still under our roof vs just letting it happen (or not). She is a joy and so great and if she were ASD-3 we’d just love her and try to manage, but her launching or not will be done by me and any specialists that I find and take her to. Spouse is just not good at this sort of thing and is better at “take kid to dentist” or taking direction (which is mainly driving once you have older kids), but ain’t no middle schooler going to get him/herself to the dermatologist (tuba lessons, orthodontist, dentist, pediatrician, etc.) and back, never mind the one kid with different needs.
Anon says
I think I AM that different sort of tropy wife? yikes.
Anonymous says
I definitely am.
Anon says
That’s true to a point, but I definitely have friends whose husbands were obviously lazy and not going to pull their weight when they got married.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
Yikes. I know this exists, but in my circle, it’s mostly the women’s labor cited in the HBS article, not just a lazy spouse. I think those are two different things.
No Face says
Yeah, most of the lazy/selfish spouses I know were lazy/selfish girlfriends and boyfriends. I am not surprised by any of the unhappy marriages or divorces around me. Successful marriages are teams, and some people think they are the star and everyone else is in a supporting role.
Anon says
I just think it’s hard. I have realized that a lot of women that I know that “make it work” and have “supportive husbands” actually rely significantly on local family for help. That is different than having a true 50/50 relationship. Relationships and expectations also change over time– and what each person can contribute depends on their jobs. DH did not expect to be significantly outearning me at this point in his career, so we try to split childcare evenly, but sometimes that just doesn’t work. I also have friends where the reverse is true– they intended to lean out when they had kids but are now in positions where they significantly outearn their husbands.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
This is our family. The only reason it works as well as it does (which is…imperfect at best) is because we have local family that is helpful. I think the whole nuclear-family-2-big-jobs is a set up for failure. Whether it’s paid help, chosen family, or blood family it really takes a community because there is no structural support in the U.S. This whole American-born boomer mentality of “I did it on my own” is BS and facilitates a toxic cycle.
We relocated to our current city because of proximity to family; it wasn’t the best career city for DH. And +1M to careers/expectations shifting. When I met DH, we were both freshly out of law school, he was clerking and I was in an entry-level public interest role. Now? He’s Counsel/likely partner soon in BigLaw, and I have a leadership level role (also a “big” job) in a different industry. He had a big deadline this week and has been underwater preparing all week, I’ve barely seen him, and actually had my kids over at my parents for a night this weekend so I could take care of a few things. We snuck out on Saturday night for a drink and he made clear that he gets that all of *this* takes a team to make happen – and when I see that understanding it helps me keep resentment at bay. It’s taken YEARS (and therapy) for us to get to this point, and it’s always a balancing act/conversations needed. Sometimes it’s just easier for the default parent to unilaterally make decisions and take care of stuff. Sometimes it’s not. Sometimes outsourcing is key. It’s a juggling act forreal in the best, most priveleged situation.
Anon says
That’s interesting, I’ve observed the opposite. I have some Chinese-American and Indian-American friends and it’s more common in their cultures to live near (or even with) parents or in-laws and for grandparents (grandmas, really) to be significantly involved in child-rearing, and I feel like in many cases the dad is the one who is let off the hook by all of the grandmas’ emotional and physical labor. The families I know (us included) without local family help tend to be more equitable because there’s no extra help and the dads are forced to step up.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
Full disclosure, I’m of one of the two cultures you mention :) If we lived far from family, I think we’d be paying more for outside, chosen help.
GCA says
+1. I’m ethnic Chinese and grew up with a lot of extended family nearby – grandparents plus some extra paid childcare are 100% how my mom and aunts were full-time working parents. My dad is excellent with small children and he was the Fun Parent growing up, but Grandma or Grandpa did the full-time afterschool care and sick-kid days. DH and I have no nearby family, similar-level jobs, and for a long time had to balance things out by necessity (no room in budget for non-daycare childcare) – it doesn’t mean we take on an equal load every single day, it ebbs and flows.
Anonymous says
I always feel that those who post “well me and spouse are 50/50, I wouldn’t have married someone who wasn’t” are in the same category as POOPCUPS. You think your life is easy because you made all the right choices, but it’s really just the luck of the draw.
Anonymous says
It’s not just luck of the draw! That makes it sound like I, and everyone else with an equal partner, just married someone random off the street. We lived together, he did his fair share if not more, and it made sense to me he would be a good partner with kids.
My friend almost married someone who wasn’t an equal partner…and then she didn’t…because he wasn’t an equal partner. It’s only luck of the draw if you go into marriage with your eyes completely closed.
Anonymous says
The point is that you can’t always tell. Someone who is an equal partner when you are 25 years old and living in an apartment without children is not necessarily going to be an equal partner when you have kids and a house and two jobs where you are each responsible for people other than yourselves.
anon says
This. It’s not my personal situation, but my sister is in a marriage like this, and it’s heartbreaking. I think I used to be more of the mindset believing that red flags were apparent early on, but sometimes that really isn’t the case.
Anon says
Yeah, I think the POOPCUP analogy is not a great one, because with kids you get what you get and you can’t exchange them. With spouses, I don’t dispute that there’s an element of luck involved in finding the right person at the right time, but it doesn’t take luck to not marry (or divorce) the wrong person – that’s a choice you make. You may not have known he wouldn’t be an equal partner before marriage, but you always have the autonomy to divorce them (unlike children, who cannot be divorced). I have to say I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people who complain endlessly about their husbands not pulling their weight. You may be in the situation you’re in at least in part because of bad luck, but you’re making a choice every day to stay in the marriage and if it’s that unpleasant for you, you should leave.
Anonymous says
A big part of the HBR piece is pushing back against your last sentence. It’s not that easy just to divorce an unsatisfactory spouse. There are tradeoffs, especially when kids are in the picture. Much easier said than done.
So Anon says
“[B]ut you’re making a choice every day to stay in the marriage and if it’s that unpleasant for you, you should leave.” – This is an incredibly privileged thing to say and actively assumes that there is no form of a buse happening in a bad marriage. Divorce is expensive, even if things are amicable and no one wants to fight. If there is any form of a buse, it can be nearly impossible to leave, and not all a buse leaves a mark. It can be so very subtle and involve restriction of access to finances, which makes even accessing resources difficult.
Anon says
Of course abuse is different, but the vast majority of marriages with an unequal division of labor are not abusive.
So Anon says
I know I’m very late in the day, but I have to say “yikes” to this! I wish I could go back to my younger self and explain emotional a buse. And that it a buse does not always look like a bruise, but alas, I did not know then that a buse can wait to manifest into more overt terms until after children come into the picture. Also, if I could explain how much of my willingness to tolerate stuff came from my family of origin. I say this as someone who was trained on DV in lawschool and did not see the “early” red flags.
Anonymous says
Spot-on. Another example of pinning societal failings on individual women, just like the claim that women only get paid less because individual women are unwilling or unable to negotiate equal salaries.
GCA says
I agree, and we absolutely should not be telling women to ‘just find a supportive spouse’, but I think the author of the HBR piece doesn’t go *quite* far enough – she tells women to lean on their networks instead, but not everyone has local, able-bodied family; some people may bear the simultaneous burden of looking after aging parents as well. Many ERGs and women’s networks are great – but I keep thinking about Claudia Goldin and her concept of ‘greedy jobs’. I love what I do and I often wish I could use my skills for 6 or 8 hours a day without the overhead of going into consulting for myself. What if work changed its expectations so that men with SAH spouses weren’t the default?
Boston Legal Eagle says
“What if work changed its expectations so that men with SAH spouses weren’t the default?” – yep, this, and what I was trying to say below. Women with caregiving responsibilities aren’t the problem, the greedy jobs are the problem, and they’re a problem for men too. It shouldn’t be a negative that I (and my husband) want to use my skills but also don’t want to work all the time! Nor do I want to be around my children or doing housework all the time either.
Anonymous says
+ infinity. The problem is greedy jobs + American society’s insistence that families must go it alone. We need policy solutions that lighten the load for working families such as universally available and affordable high-quality child care, affordable college tuition that doesn’t leave families struggling to pay off the parents’ educations while paying for child care, universal health insurance, and elder care solutions that don’t simultaneously create a sandwich generation of women caring for their parents and their own children. Add to that an expectation of a 40-hour work week and leave policies that allow both moms and dads to handle child-related responsibilities. And maybe fix ventilation in schools so kids aren’t always sick?
anon says
Even if you and your spouse generally split things 50/50 and are mutually supportive, it doesn’t mean that resentments don’t creep in from external pressures. The world isn’t exactly neutral on the subject of who is responsible for parenting vs the bread winner. As two examples–
My husband recently exploded in frustration how none of his colleagues have any restrictions on travel and how I’m holding back his career. The thing is they all have SAH or very PT spouses and I have a big job so practically we need to negotiate travel and childcare. It’s not that we don’t discuss job needs–we certainly do all the time–but he also can’t pretend that I SAH and dump it all on me without discussion. Even if intellectually he’s on board with 50/50, I think emotionally the ongoing pressures get to him. His work pressures him to be 100% available at all times (including getting called in overnight and on holidays with no notice) and this isn’t reasonable unless you don’t have kids or have a SAH spouse.
I also grate when my SAH mother dotes on my husband as some savior to humanity because he doesn’t ignore household chores and kids like my father did. She’s constantly looking for ways to “give him a break because he does too much” while shifting chores back to me. As one example, we were getting ready to go somewhere and he was helping put on toddler shoes while I packed the diaper bag. She stopped him and told him to rest because I could “handle” the kids myself. After all, he must be tired from a long work week, nevermind that I work more hours and was still getting up to nurse the baby. It’s never super confrontational, but is constant. She undervalues my career (because it must not be important because I’m female) and devalues my contribution to the family because he actually helps. Visiting with her makes me resentful of his special treatment and feel like I’m not doing enough.
Boston Legal Eagle says
I think it’s hard to have a “big” job and also contribute equally to a household. Men are far more often than women pushed to measure their self worth by having this “big” job, which tends to take up a lot of time. So really what leads to a more equal distribution is both partners finding good but not big/all consuming jobs, and also being aware that career “success” or lots of money is not the be all end all, and that caregiving and household management are equally important even if this is not monetarily valued.
I don’t pretend to know how to completely change our society on this, but I can start in our house at least, and from what I’ve seen, the dads who don’t put as much emphasis on having the “big” job seem a lot happier than the execs and biglaw partners that I’ve worked with so in the end, isn’t that what really matters?
Anonymous says
On the other hand, men who opt out of pursuing “big” jobs sometimes tend to develop an inferiority complex that manifests as spousal resentment. If I didn’t have to keep my pushy career wife happy, I could have been a VP like my dad was. That kind of thing.
anon says
Yeah, I mean…realistically, my biglaw equity partner husband who bills 2500 hours a year is not going to be an equal household contributor to me, an in-house lawyer with a high-level but very 9-6 job with real vacation time. There’s just no way that happens – my professional demands are much lower than his are. That being said, he also makes 10X what I do, and we could not live this life if he didn’t work that way.
One big thing I will say, though, is that we were older when we got married. He was already an equity partner and I was an income partner when we met, so none of this was a surprise to me. I knew I would be the primary parent and primarily responsible for household management, childcare, emotional labor and familial organization, etc. In general, I think I have the far better end of the bargain – I never want to work like I did in biglaw again.
AnonTX says
“There’s just no way that happens – my professional demands are much lower than his are. That being said, he also makes 10X what I do, and we could not live this life if he didn’t work that way.”
“I knew I would be the primary parent and primarily responsible for household management, childcare, emotional labor and familial organization, etc. In general, I think I have the far better end of the bargain..”
These points were well-written and really resonated. Thank you.
GCA says
That’s a good point about knowing what you were going into when starting a family, setting your respective expectations accordingly and making peace with your situation. As More Sleep Would Be Nice discusses above, though, sometimes you don’t know how your careers will pan out going in, and many white-collar professional career tracks are pretty path-dependent…
DH and I met very young in college, and we like to think about it this way: we are both going to grow and evolve over time, and so will our careers (and it’s a long game, too) – so we’re always checking in and communicating about balancing family and job needs (very much the Jennifer Petriglieri Couples That Work approach). DH was on track to be a STEM academic…and decided that as much as he wanted to do research that contributes to society, he didn’t want the postdoc insecurity, the moving around, the tenure-track pressure, and all the challenges of academia that is progressive in word but not in deed, if you get what I mean. (Also, we wanted to pay for daycare. As the joke goes, ‘what is the difference between a scientist and a data scientist? Six figures.’)
Also, this is more tangential and less specifically about equal partnership, but if we’re going to live to our 90s or to 100, how will we live *well*? I don’t just mean ensuring we have financial security and retirement savings, but what kind of relationships and social capital and community networks have we each invested our time and energy in to set ourselves up for an emotionally rich and fulfilling retirement?
anon101 says
Wow, this thread is so real. Thank you all for sharing. I will jump with my own unique experience. My husband is SAHD since before we even had kids…we set ourselves up for me having a Big Career and all the ambition as a lawyer. Well, now a pandemic and a baby (almost 1 yo) and toddler (4 yo), I am in a mid-level very-comfortable in-house career and all the ambitions and opportunity to take a C-Suite job in this market…and yet I decided not to and am literally mommy tracking myself. We have all but a live-in grandparent helping my husband, and we are still hanging by a delicate thread with this arrangement. I am constantly disrupted at work, can’t be at my desk long enough to get into a flow, am doing enough to scrape by without anyone noticing, and would probably fall apart if I were to take on the pressures and learning curve of a new role. So for all the folks saying lots of family help can support a dual-big-law couple, I can say in some cases it barely helps keep things together in my case as a sole breadwinner.
Anon says
Yeah I feel like some are overstating the degree to which family help makes things easier on parents. I only have one preschool age child and neither my husband nor I has super “big” jobs (STEM professor + 9-5 university staff) so my situation is lower stress than many here, but we parented without family help for 3 years and have now parented with super involved local grandparents for close to 1 year and honestly I don’t see a huge difference? Don’t get me wrong, I love having my parents nearby, my daughter adores them and it’s really beautiful watching their relationship develop. But giving up our cleaning service would be about a thousand times more stressful for me than giving up my parents’ help. I do see how local grandparents are a bigger help once kids are out of daycare and in elementary school, although in our case it will mostly just be saving us $$ since aftercare is available at the school if you pay.
4 YO Sleep says
Knock down, drag out fights nightly continue as we struggle to get our almost 4 year old (4 in April) to bed at night. She’s a darling all day long and at night she just does NOT want to sleep. She has daily quiet time and sometimes sleeps. We’re going to limit the sleep (if she gets any) to not more than an hour.
Last night we held the door shut and she went ballistic. It was only after she was SO upset that I was able to go in and calm her down and get her to go in to bed. Even still she insisted she doesn’t like sleep and tried to get up a ton of times. I’ve laid with her in bed. She also came in to our room overnight and got in bed with us. I’m losing my mind. Her ok to wake light has no impact on her at all. We have solid routines until the point we go upstairs. She takes melatonin. I don’t know what to do next. Is this what a sleep consultant is for? SOS.
Anonymous says
End quiet time, make sure she is physically exhausted, lock her in her room.
Anon says
Is she still in a crib/toddler bed by any chance? We had a lot of sleep battles beginning around 3.5 and even though we repeatedly asked what was wrong and tried to fix all the obvious things (hunger, thirst, bathroom, quiet, dark, etc) it wasn’t until our kid finally articulated (at almost 4) that her crib mattress was too hard and uncomfortable that we thought to buy a new mattress. In hindsight we should have realized when she was asking to sleep in our bed even without us present, but we didn’t put two and two together.
I would also consider letting her join you in bed if that’s the best way for you all to sleep. I believe most hard kid things are phases and all sleeping in one bed to get through a tough phase isn’t a recipe for lifelong co-sleeping.
So Anon says
My solution for bedtime battles was to put a sleeping bag on the floor next to my bed so that kiddo could come into my room as needed. I took away the fight and it made it so much more pleasant. I still pull out the sleeping bags from time-to-time and we all sleep in the same room (major thunderstorms, holidays, etc.).
Anon says
I have a 4.5YO who has never slept, so I feel your pain. I would scrap the nap (not limit it to under an hour). Move bedtime up if you need to. But it sounds to me like she just isn’t tired (see also why my child hasn’t napped since she was 2 and sleeps only 9 or so hours a night and has since that age). If dropping the nap (since it sounds like she doesn’t always sleep) doesn’t solve the struggle, I would try moving bedtime an hour later. Then give her a flashlight and books and tell her she can sleep when she is ready but has to stay in bed. I expect if you take the power struggle out of it, she will fall asleep when she is tired and after a few days you might get a good idea of what time is a good “get in bed” time for her to accomplish the “go to sleep” time she needs.
People will frown upon this, but we tuck kiddo into bed around 9 or 10 each night with her tablet and she falls asleep when she is ready and we retrieve it once she is asleep. Sometimes it is sub 5 minutes, sometimes it is 2 hours, but you can’t force a child who isn’t sleepy to sleep, so this is the workable solution we’ve come up with. We’ve been doing that for close to two years now and our bedtimes are so much more civil because she can sleep when she is ready, but we the parents are not constantly in and out for multiple hours as a bedtime hostage.
Anonymous says
+1 to all of this. Her bedtime may well be hours too early.
anon says
Agree with you on all of this. We do something similar with flashlight and book and a few toys. And re: “people will judge” …. People with children who are higher on the sleep needs really just do not understand the struggle, I’ve found.
Anon says
It doesn’t sound like this has been a problem forever, though, and kid’s sleep needs don’t change overnight. If a child has gone to sleeping 12 hours to suddenly sleeping 9 hours, “she just needs less sleep” almost certainly isn’t the explanation. I posted above that bedtime became a major battle around 3.5 and my kid is in high sleep needs and it definitely was NOT the case that she simply needed less sleep. Perhaps counterintuitively, we had the easiest bedtimes on the rare days she’d napped. Sleep begets sleep and all that.
That said, I definitely don’t judge anyone who gives their kids books/toys/tablet and lets them turn out the light on their own schedule. That seems like a good solution for kids who naturally need less sleep. I’m just not convinced that’s OP’s situation because even very high sleep needs kids can definitely resist bedtime.
NYCer says
First, I would try eliminating naps completely, not just limiting them to one hour. My almost three year old ends up staying up way too late if she naps at all, so I can only imagine it would be amplified a year from now.
Beyond that, what time are you trying to put her to bed? Maybe she legitimately isn’t tired? FWIW, I lie in bed with my younger daughter almost every night. It staves off a lot of battles, and I kind of like the quiet time with her. No judgment because I know that sleep issues are ROUGH, but my kids would also go ballistic if we held the door shut from outside at bedtime. They both prefer the door open – maybe worth trying with your daughter?
Anonymous says
No real advice as my 4 YO is the same! It’s been miserable. Last night, I gave her special markers (the ones that will only draw on particular paper) and let her do quiet time until she fell asleep. This worked great as usually we are in her room with her from 8-10 pm while she falls asleep, but we’re only one day in so can’t speak to whether we got lucky or this is a new solution.
Anone says
Get a door monkey, search on amazon. Is she napping? Consistency for atleast two weeks.
Anon says
I just started playing 1-2 bedtime meditations for my kids (4&6) once I turn off the light and it’s been working GREAT. There’s a channel/playlist called “Relax” – Google “hot air balloon kids meditation” and you’ll find it. I’m also planning to get a Zenimal that they can operate on their own soon.
I agree with cutting out naps and making sure kid is good and tired… and if the melatonin is not working I would stop giving it (research is mixed but it’s *possible* giving it as a supplement could impact the body’s ability to make it on its own)
anon says
Is she getting sufficient physical activity during the day? Lots of running around, physical play?
Anonymous says
This is what makes the difference for my kids. Like an hour of running around out of breath. It seemed impossible to fit in at first but an hour of fighting at bedtime is also impossible.
Anon says
+1 physical exercise is big for us too. We have noticed sleep gets a lot worse when we’re home on quarantine or holiday break because even with regular playground visits and YouTube yoga videos, we can’t match the physical exhaustion of daycare.
AwayEmily says
We dealt with similar issues with my almost-4yo (he still naps at daycare and it makes sleep super hard), and after trying a LOT of things, we’ve finally found success with a routine that involves a lot of positive reinforcement . We put him and his big sister down at 7:45 (they are in bunk beds). They both have Munchkin owl lights so that they can read in bed. She falls asleep immediately. I do a quick check on him at 8 to tell him he’s doing great at being quiet and bring him a few additional books to look at. Then at 8:15 I go in, lay next to him, and we just chat for fifteen minutes. It’s honestly one of the nicest times of the day for me — we’re whispering because his sister is asleep and we talk about our days, random things he comes up with, etc. At the end I rub his back for a bit, then turn his owl light off. He’s usually asleep soon after. I think knowing he is going to get that undivided, happy attention makes him more willing to be quiet the rest of the time.
Anonymous says
I’m sure you have tried all these things already but they have all been helpful to us at various similar stages: more exercise, like a lot more (used to take my 4-5 year old running to try to get him tired enough to sleep). End rest time temporarily and do not allow daytime sleep at all (by age 3 mine would be up till like 10 pm if they napped even 20 min). Try moving bedtime back 30-60 min. Change up bedtime routine (add or remove bathing for example). Lie down with her to go to sleep (I see you tried that but maybe combined with other factors). Will she look at books? Could try 30-60 min of independent reading /books before lights out.
Anecdotally the one time I tried melatonin I was WIRED in a weird way the entire night and slept not a wink so it always makes me nervous.
strollerstrike says
Update on the three positive rapid tests and negative PCR test. Second PCR test came back negative too and two rapid tests today are negative too. Trusting the two PCR tests now.
Anonymous says
Good news!
Anonymous says
Were all the rapid tests the same brand, bought together? Maybe you got a bad batch?
Op says
Nope, two in daycare, one at home. All from different batches. Something about DS must have set them off yesterday.
Anon says
I think the person who made the comment yesterday about a foreign substance in his nose was joking, but that might actually be the culprit. Apparently tap water will test positive on a rapid antigen so I assume there are other substances that do too.
EDAnon says
I was joking but with kids, who knows!
Anonymous says
That’s great news!
EDAnon says
I would definitely assume you’re negative. Maybe you did just get a bad batch of rapids. So weird!
(Thanks for the update too!).
anon says
I ordered one box from Lovevery for my baby, with the intention of canceling after since I don’t want to be stuck in a subscription for $80 boxes every two months. I tried to log back in to cancel my subscription, and the website is telling me it does not have an account with my email (so I can’t reset the password) even though I clearly received the order confirmation to my email, and I get several marketing emails a day to the same email. I’ve emailed their customer service and just got an auto-reply that they are short-staffed and will get back to me. Then nothing but crickets. No way to get hold of the company. The cynic in me thinks this is a dark pattern to make it super difficult for people to cancel (which is in violation of several laws, including CA auto-renewal laws), but I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. What do I do to prevent the next $80 charge though? Take it up with my credit card to block them?
Anonymous says
Create a new account under your e-mail address and see whether the subscription shows up?
NYCer says
Is there a phone number you can call? I was able to cancel my subscription easily (it was a while ago, sorry can’t remember details).
Mary Moo Cow says
I would. My own credit card company has been very helpful and quick to respond when I reported a problem with a merchant. Your credit card company is a business with people trained to work with business, so that takes ther personal element out of it. And I’m with you, I doubt this is new company growing pains and more intentional to make it difficult for people to cancel.
Anon says
Can you tag or direct message them on Instagram? They market very heavily there.
Anon says
You’re a genius. That totally worked. Thanks! (Not sure why I couldn’t figure that out myself, lol. Need more coffee.)
anon says
Whoops, that was meant for Anonymous at 12:40 above.
Anonymous says
Oh, yay!
TheElms says
I’m looking for an audio only baby monitor that will allow me to have 2 baby units and 2 parent units in the same house with good range. For some reason I can’t seem to find anything like this. 2 baby units seems to be the big issue. Anyone have a recommendation?
synchronia says
I also tried to find this and couldn’t (I think the signals on the audio monitors conflict with each other). We had to go with one audio and one digital.