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Now that commuting is becoming a regular or semi-regular reality, I need a new laptop case to go with my current less-is-more aesthetic.
This slender one from Tumi is exactly what I’m looking for — this slim, lightweight nylon bag features multiple carrying options (top handle, crossbody strap, and luggage sleeve), a zip-top closure, and some discreet magnetic snap pockets for essentials like your phone and a notepad.
It’s a subdued and classic bag that is perfect for heading back to the office.
The Joanne Nylon Laptop Carrier is $245 at Nordstrom.
Sales of note for 8.30.24
(See all of the latest workwear sales at Corporette!)
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 20% off
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lands’ End – 40% off sitewide; 50% off backpacks, 40% off kids’ apparel
- Loft – Summer sale, 30% off new arrivals; up to 50% off much more
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- Zappos – 28,000+ women’s sale items! (check out these reader-favorite workwear brands on sale, and some of our favorite kids’ shoe brands on sale)
Kid/Family Sales
- Carter’s – 50% off everything
- Hanna Andersson – Up to 40% off everything
- J.Crew Crewcuts – 40% off sitewide; extra 50% off sale styles
- Old Navy – 50-60% off; 50% off pants for the family
- Target – 20% off select clothing for all; up to 50% off home; up to 30% off select nursery furniture; up to 30% off kitchen & dining
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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- The concept of “backup care” is so stupid…
- I need tips on managing employees in BigLaw who have to leave for daycare pickup…
- I’m thinking of leaning out to spend more time with my family – how can I find the perfect job for that?
- I’m now a SAHM and my husband needs to step up…
- How can I change my thinking to better recognize some of my husband’s contributions as important, like organizing the shed?
- What are your tips to having a good weekend with kids, especially with little kids? Do you have a set routine or plan?
Mm says
Thoughts and tips on working an early full time schedule (like 7-3 or 7:30-3:30)? Fueled mainly by the desire for a bigger chunk of time with my kid each day, I’m thinking of asking work if I can shift. Most of my meetings are in the morning. The major potential complication would be filings – I’m a litigator – but I could probably plan ahead for those days.
Anonymous says
I’d do the reverse, something like 10-6. Nobody will notice if you come in later, but it will be a Big Deal if you leave early.
Lateral says
This is so office specific. I worked at a firm where this was 100% the case and then lateraled to a firm of older men who definitely cared if you weren’t there early but never noticed or cared what time you left.
anonM says
Same- especially since WFH.
anonM says
…also, if you aren’t WFH, here’s my two cents based on watching others at my firm navigate different schedules/hours. I’d make it super clear from the get-go that you’re staying FT and will make arrangements for filing deadlines/urgent issues that come up. And, I’d make sure colleagues know you’re still full-time. I don’t think you need to tell anyone outside the firm your schedule — even when I was briefly PT I didn’t end up needing to tell anyone outside. I would also advise making sure you’re aware of appearances when you do leave the office — if the time you need to leave is 3:30, and you’re turning in something to your boss/collegues do so at 3:00 so if they have questions you can address them. Just avoid the drop-and-run if at all possible so you don’t end up with cranky collegues. Even pre-covid my coworker and I started to WFH several afternoons a week — an accomodation not previously even considered or requested at my old-school firm. We made a point to always pick up the phone even when at home, and kept up on our workload/billables. Now I’m 99% WFH (except court hearings/client meetings etc.). Honestly, if this will keep you at your job, given the current market that is employee-friendly, this is the time to ask! Maybe you can ask for a three-month trial period at which point you can re-evaluate.
AwayEmily says
I think this could definitely work! I imagine you’d head into the office before the kid is awake? I’ve done this schedule for short periods when I’m working hard on something — it works well for me also because I have a LOT more mental energy in the morning than I do in the afternoon. You just have to make sure your partner is okay with doing mornings on their own (which I assume they are since you’re bringing it up!).
EDAnon says
I am also a morning person. What holds me up is leaving before the kids are awake. I like seeing them in the morning. But if I see them in the morning, it’s like a minimum of 45 minutes longer before I can leave.
Anonymous says
When does school start for your kids? Mine are on the bus at 7:15 and off at 2:45 so I work 7:30-3 every day. School hours are 7:55-2:20.
Mm says
Currently at a preschool with a “school day” of 8:30-3:30, but there are before and aftercare options. And yes, SO does drop off.
Spirograph says
I think this very much depends on your office culture, unless you’re senior enough that you can just say “sorry, my work hours end at 3:30, catch me tomorrow.”
My office has a late culture, with people in my time zone usually available until 5-6 on wfh days. I try to leave earlier (and catch up on email and other independent work) after kid bedtime on days that I don’t have afternoon meetings, but it would be really, really tough to declare and stick to an early schedule. if your office is similar, you’ll need the full support of your leadership and peers to run interference for you and respect your calendar.
Anon says
I work those hours (though they’re more typical in my industry – manufacturing) and love them. Have so much time in the afternoon to hang out with my son and especially during nicer weather actually do things before dinner. I worked more traditional hours before and personally find the earlier hours to give me a much better work/life balance.
Anon says
8 hours isn’t really considered full time in a lot of offices, and I think you might get pushback if you’re never available after 3:30. Is part time an option?
EDAnon says
When possible, I push back on the expectation that 8 hours isn’t enough. I actually try to keep closer to 7 or 7.5 most days (knowing that I have long days regularly). In most jobs, your employer is happy to eat up your life if you let it.
Anon says
I think there’s a big difference between generally trying to be in the office for at most 8 hours a day, and never attending anything that happens after 3:30, which is the middle of the afternoon in my workplace.
I also think WFH makes it easier to get away with shortened hours if you’re productive. When I was in the office, the “normal” hours were 8:30-5:30 and although no one was going around checking who was in their seat at those hours, people would definitely notice if you were never in before 9 and always out by 5. And that’s a job/industry I would describe as 9-5, very good work-life balance with no expectation of weekend or evening work.
Anonymous says
You’re a lawyer? Do you need permission to just work when you want and get it done? Men just do what they want.
Anonymous says
When I worked in IT, my schedule was 7-4. I think what made it work was my boss also had this schedule (though he was on call 24/7 and regularly stated his work day at 5AM). It was understood that you would need to log in “after hours” between 7 and 10pm to pick up anything that came in from 4-7. Many of my colleagues came in early or late, but almost all of us logged on after dinner. Hope this helps.
Anon says
Litigator here! It depends on what your mornings with kiddo are like. Does your partner exclusively handle mornings? Will you be exhausted from morning madness to actually start work at 7? If kiddo is in the house, can you be left alone to do work?
For me, I can’t start at 7 for a variety of reasons (even though I work best between 6-10am): I solo parent 80% of the week, and I have a toddler who wakes up at 6am.
Good luck! I hope you can make it work.
Anonymous says
I do this, but I’m at a federal agency that skews early. I could never have done this at my law firm, though coming in later was never a problem. It is admittedly hard on my husband who has to do mornings completely solo.
Anonymous says
I’m an attorney at a federal agency and do an 8-5:30 schedule, and often work earlier in the morning if I need to get things done (I hate logging back on after dinner). Everyone knows I have a hard stop at 5:30 to pick up my kid, and I’ve only had to log back on at night on a few rare occasions. I do think it would be difficult to end much earlier because a lot of people want to talk when their meetings are over around 3:30 or 4, but there are some in my department who make it work (I think they often log back on in the evening if they’re busy).
Lise says
I couldn’t, but the culture in my practice area just skews late. I’m not in an environment where people actively care about others’ schedules, but it would make my own day much harder to manage (in scheduling meetings, and also just losing usable work time for editing other people’s work in time sensitive situations). I do have friends in other practice areas who have done it.
Anonymous says
I do this, but I’m an academic so random schedules are the norm. What makes it work for us is that my spouse is willing/capable to handle the entire morning routine on days I’m not teleworking, since I leave the house at 6:30 and the kids don’t get up until 7:15/leave for school until 8:30. I also don’t refuse to attend meetings after 3–anyone I work closely with knows that I prefer not to schedule meetings then, but I know that every 6 weeks department meeting will be 3-4:30 and I just adjust my hours on those days.
HSAL says
How would this impact your support staff? Would it cause any issues if they stayed with a more traditional schedule?
Anonymous says
I do 6/6:30-3:30/4 with a long lunch. However, I am able to in large part because I work from home from a different time zone to the majority of my firm. Working earlier actually makes me far more available for meetings than I would otherwise be. Luckily, it suits my preference too.
Anonymous says
This looks like a laptop sleeve with handles. Where do the charger, headphones, etc. go? And I’d have to carry a separate purse for my wallet, phone, keys, hand sanitizer, sunglasses, etc. To me, minimalism is a single bag that holds all the essentials without crowding.
Anonymous says
More disappearing comments! There were two and now there are none.
Anonymous says
This is also happening to me, on iPhone, using Safari.
Spirograph says
Yup, same
NYCer says
Me too.
EDAnon says
Happens on my iPhone. The comments all appear in the browser.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Comments keep disappearing on both my phone and browser (chrome).
EDAnon says
I use Firefox, so maybe that’s the secret :)
AwayEmily says
When we’ve talked about nursing clothes on here, some people have recommended getting “shirts that can pull down to nurse.” Does anyone have specific shirts that work for this? It’s hard to tell online which ones are stretchy and/or low-cut enough to work. I’m picturing maybe a deep V-neck? Thanks!
Anonymous says
I wouldn’t pull down anything but a wrap top. A v-neck will get stretched out.
Anon says
I bought these in 3 colors (sleeveless) and 5 colors (long sleeved). They go on sale regularly. I bought some backups to have on hand for the next baby because they are good, but not great, quality (but when they were $20ish on sale, I didn’t mind stocking up).
I’m a 36C when nursing so YMMV if you are significantly larger.
Anon says
https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=678280
Forgot the link! BR threadsoft wrap tops.
Aunt Jamesina says
I just bought two of these for when I’m back at work. I really like the fit.
anon says
FWIW, I never had much luck with this approach.
anon says
I don’t really know how people would pull down shirts in reality but maybe that’s because I have very large breasts (34G)? I opted for snap or button henleys and loved it. I got some “dreamy cotton” sleep henleys from JCrew and some from an australian brand called Bae. I also liked soft-cotton button downs from Target.
AIMS says
I am a 34F and did this. FWIW – it was easiest with Old Navy spaghetti strap maternity camisoles. I think the reason it worked is because I am generally petite on top – narrow shoulders etc., so those tops were all a tad large on me to begin with (i.e., wouldn’t have been decent to wear out without something on top because of how low they were).
Anonymous says
I don’t have links but stretchy scoopneck T-shirts worked for me to pull down.
Anonymous says
Anyone been to Disney recently? We are going in a month and I fully expect it to be a total zoo. Looking for any tips or tricks or “must do so much it’s worth the 60 minute wait”s.
We are going to be in Orlando for a week, staying off site. We are thinking 2 days at Disney and a day at universal (two park ticket). Kids are 4,6,9. Nobody cares about Star Wars, I’m not sure they like Frozen enough to do a day at Epcot. The older two like Harry Potter, but only my 9 year old is big enough to ride all the HP rides. My 6 y.o is just shy of 48” and probably wouldn’t like anything that required her to be 48” anyway.
Walnut says
We just went and it surprised me how much we enjoyed it (crowds and all). My best advice is to pay the extra for the Genie plus and individual lightning lanes so you can get on some rides without the wait. There’s a learning curve to using it and knowing the park layouts is key to not running all over the place.
Anonymous says
At Universal, I’d start at Ollivander’s for wands. It appears that Ollivander likes to choose sibling groups for the show, bonus points if they are dressed up. Buy at least one wand so the kids can interact with all the window displays in both HP villages.
Cb says
Best of Both Worlds just did a Disney episode.
Anonymous says
We went a few weeks ago. They announced they were lifting the mask requirement the night before we got there. It was super crowded – the hotel staff said that Saturday was the largest crowd since before the pandemic! However, we had a great time. We did use Genie plus to avoid some lines. I would watch several videos on the system before you if you want to use it.
Two days is hard – Hollywood studios is small and won’t take all day. But it’s more than just Star Wars. My kids are not old enough for Star Wars, but they were still fascinated by Hollywood studios. Also, they loved toy story world. Epcot is also a good choice because there are a lot of good rides – my kids favorite ride overall was Soarin’ in Epcot (even though they are both Frozen obsessed and we rode the Frozen ride!). Have you considered a park hopper to do Hollywood and Epcot on one day? I’ve gotten inconsistent answers on whether you can do a park hopper for only one day, but if you can I would consider it.
I think everyone’s “must do” is different – but I would say Soarin (Epcot), Mine train (MK), Buzz Lightyear (MK), toy story mania (Hollywood). We all HATED Space mountain.
One note on food – we did a lot of quick service (order online and pick up in person). The best quick service will fill up fast. So if you do Hollywood studios, order lunch from Woodys lunchbox first thing (you can set you pick up time for later). I did not find any sit down meal worth it – expensive and not great food. I also thought character dining was a waste.
AIMS says
There was a whole Disney thread here a few weeks ago – check it out.
We also did it recently with a 4 and 6 y.o. We stayed on site for the sole purpose of getting into the park early. If that’s an option, I would highly recommend it because it let us do 1-2 rides quickly without much of a line and really helped maximize the day. It was also easier to get into the park that way vs. driving and parking.
Agree about getting the genie pass although it won’t magically skip all the lines for you. But at $15 extra per person it’s a negligible cost considering what you’re already paying. Some things to know – everyone starts using it to book at 7 am on the dot, so make sure you are ready! Mine crashed for the first few minutes basically due to overload. Keep in mind that you can’t use it to book more rides until you use up your existing reservation so don’t book something too late in the date as your first thing. You can, however, use it to book something new immediately when you scan into whatever ride you are doing. I think something like Jungle Cruise is a good one to use it on because the lines for that were always long.
Get the app and use it to order food and check wait times. I think wait times tend to be a little less than listed but it’s a good general idea. We did the kiddie rides like its a Small World first. The Peter Pan ride line is reasonably entertaining (you go through the nursery). For one or two lines when my kids were beat we split up and their dad waited on line and I just let the kids do something else and came when it was time – I just told the attendant that my kids had to pee.
I recommend taking lots of breaks, which is relatively easy if you plan it strategically. We did the Enchanted Tiki room and Mikey’s Philarmagic when it was really hot midday and my kids were needing some indoor A/C time. The People Mover is also good for this & a good way to get out of the hot sun. Tom Sawyer’s island is another place that’s good for a break and we never saw a long line to get there.
Another tip – order food on the app ahead of time. I would get ice cream etc. when we were boarding a ride to pick up when we got off. Also, I told my kids that any shopping they wanted to do would be our last thing and it helped not to have to deal with that whole issue.
Bring lots of water & a phone charger.
Stay for the fireworks, my kids loved them.
Anon says
at what age did your kids start watching Disney movies and does anyone have a recommendation for one to start with? my soon to be 4 year old twins have been coming home from school talking a lot about various characters and I would like one day to take them to Disney World, but I don’t know if they are ready for a full length movie. i’ve never seen Frozen and I read the plot – why are all Disney movies so sad?
Walnut says
Moana was our entry point.
EJF says
+1! I could watch Moana every weekend.
Anonymous says
Same. this is also one where I find myself driving around rocking out to the soundtrack and then realize my kids aren’t even in the car…
Anon says
I love Moana!
Unpopular opinion, but I don’t like Encanto at all and am glad my kids didn’t get into it. The visual animation is gorgeous but the plot didn’t hold my interest and the songs were so, so underwhelming to me.
Anon says
We showed my daughter Finding Nemo when she was 2.5 or so. But I don’t think she really processed the plot. She called it “Fish TV.”
Now at 4, she’s also seen some of Frozen, Moana, Toy Story and Encanto. We’ve had the best luck with Frozen but movies never hold her interest for more than about 30 minutes. I’m not sure why – she can watch hours and hours of a TV show she likes but loses interest much faster with a movie. Even if there were no pandemic I can’t imagine taking her to a movie theater even though I know this is a common age for a first movie.
Cb says
My child is still traumatised by the first 5 minutes of Nemo.
Anon says
Yeah, I think that’s pretty normal. I’m pretty sure the first time we showed it to her we skipped the beginning and now that she knows the ending she’s fine with it.
Anon says
I like the older disney movies because they’re shorter. We started with Cinderella I think and my kids also loved Sword in the Stone, Robin Hood, Sleeping Beauty… when they got a little older we did more Moana, Encanto, Frozen, etc.
AIMS says
+1. All the older movies are about an hour, which is perfect. My kids’ first real obsession was Peter Pan. It’s not very PC in parts but otherwise no one dies. I think they watched it once a day during the early days of WFH pandemic.
Also, FWIW, my kids watched Frozen a LOT and I don’t think it registered until they saw Frozen II that the parents die. My daughter literally said, “wait I thought their parents went on a boat vacation??”
Finding Nemo, on the other hand, they refused to watch because it starts off scary.
Anon says
My 4 year old hasn’t processed that the parents die in Frozen either. She knows it “scary” but she doesn’t get that they died.
Anon says
It’s “not very PC”?!?!!??!?
I watched that in a college class 20 years ago and there was damn near a revolt.
It’s absolute garbage, mocking the people we GENOCIDED.
Anonymous says
Disney’s putting a disclaimer at the beginning of a lot of their classic movies (at least on disney+) that they are problematic in their depiction of xyz peoples. cool, nice way to wash your hands of that responsibility while still monetizing the content.
Spirograph says
Disney movies are hella depressing and the parents almost always get killed pretty quickly. My younger kids are apparently heartless, but the oldest has inherited my cry-at-all-the-movies gene. We probably started around 4. My kids have seen many of the classics, but like the newer ones the better because they’re getting more pop culture play and their friends are excited about them, too. Per the thread yesterday, it’s worth watching the movies with your kids both to calm them down if there are parts that are scary or sad, and also to push back on some of the more regressive gender role.
I’d start with Moana. It’s recent enough to still be in the zeitgeist, the soundtrack is great, and it skips the problematic pretty princess stuff that the classics have. Also, the parents don’t die! The grandmother does (but not violently, and she comes back as a guiding spirit, which is sweet) so watch out for that if it’s likely to be triggering.
Frozen is better than most in that the parents die off-camera and it’s not belabored, and then it’s ultimately a love story about sisters. Frozen 2 has a teensy romantic love story aspect, more for comic relief and an epic power ballad than anything plot-driving. Plus, the princess is still her own person going off and having adventures on her own, not a damsel in distress.
Anonymous says
Put encanto on. And be prepared to watch it daily for 3 months.
Anon says
Cars is great. My son watched at 2.5 and had never watched a full length movie movie (or had much screen time at all) – but he was vehicle-obsessed and it held his attention. Very funny for adults, too! We still have never made it through Moana.
Anon says
+1 love cars!
Anonymous says
+1 My 3 year old loves Cars (and Cars 3, but not Cars 2) and will watch them over and over.
Anonymous says
Mine found Cars too anxiety producing until 5, because in the racing scenes they are trying to bump each other etc.
AwayEmily says
Ours did Frozen first, at ages 5 and 3. What worked well for them (both in terms of making it less scary and helping them follow along) was to first get them used to the soundtrack and book (most of the Disney movies have Little Golden Book versions). They listened/read for a month or so before actually watching the movie.
Anon says
My twins are a year older and still can’t watch any Disney movie without having a parent next to them for the scary bits. If it’s something they’ve seen before they’re 50-50 okay to watch it mostly on their own (like in the backseat on a road trip). They like Moana, Frozen, Encanto, and Lion King, thought Mary Poppins and 101 Dalmations were okay (Cruella was really scary for them at 4), and found Cars super boring.
Mary Moo Cow says
My oldest started at 4, when she had to have dental surgery and needed to be chill until the anesthesia wore off. She watched Frozen because she knew the characters from friends at school. Youngest started around 4, too, only because older sister was watching. After Frozen on repeat, it was Moana, Brave, and Up. Recently 101 Dalmatians, Bambi, Lady and the Tramp, Beauty and The Beast, Raya and the Last Dragon, Coco, Encanto, The Incredibles, and Tangled. Neither has really been into Micky and Minnie.
Like someone else said, I like the classic Disney movies because they are significantly shorter.
OP says
thanks all. i personally still do not like movies where kids are separated from their parents (i was traumatized by Home Alone and Hook as a kid) and think they would be petrified of something like The Little Mermaid. I like the idea of starting with some of the music or maybe a book
Anon says
Be careful about projecting your own fears and anxieties onto your kids. Obviously what Disney movies you show your kids isn’t that significant in the grand scheme of things, but in general you don’t want to go through life having your kids avoid something because you thought it was scary as a kid. I was and am very sensitive and have been really surprised by what my apparently much less sensitive 4 year old can handle. I have to check myself on this regularly because I want her life to be catered to her personality and needs, not what 4 year old me would have needed.
Anonymous says
I have never had a problem with the parents’ dying. That’s pretty standard in juvenile literature; for anything exciting to happen, the parents have to be absent or at least not paying attention. I do not like the evil stepmothers, though.
Anon says
Comments are still messed up.
Kate says
Thanks for letting us know! (Anonymous at 9:07, I see you too!) Any specific details are much appreciated — we are looking into this!
Anon says
For me it seems to be like when I view the page while “logged in” (I.e., immediately after posting my own comment) I can see everything. But when I refresh and my login information disappears the comments also disappear. I’ve checked the box for “save my info” but it still seems to vanish.
Anonymous says
Just for fun, I tried repeatedly refreshing the page. Comments alternate disappearing and reappearing with each refresh. I’m using the Brave browser, which is based on Chrome, on a Windows computer.
Anonymous says
I think it’s platform-independent, because the same thing is happening (since last Friday) irrespective of whether I use chrome on a desktop or android, or safari on iphone.
For today, a certain number of comments seem to get “stuck” at various intervals, but the number in the link goes up and no more comments are visible when I click on it until the next batch “sticks.” Sometimes more show up when I refresh, sometimes not.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Same. Comments keep disappearing on both my phone and browser (chrome). Refreshing doesn’t help.
Anon says
Does anyone here actually enjoy the evening routine with little kids? I.e., dinner, bedtime. I want to find a way to enjoy it more, and nothing is wrong per se (kids behave OK most of the time) but it feels like a lot at the end of the day a lot of times
Anonymous says
Evening routine is: dinner for everyone, then babies get bottles, pjs, crib; then older one gets bath time, pjs, book, brush teeth, lights out. Imagine Benny hill playing in the background the entire time. I joke that I work harder from 4-8PM than I do the rest of the day. No advice, but no I do not enjoy evening routine. I have three: 5, 1 and 1. I keep repeating to myself that it will get better.
Cb says
Are you solo? My husband is solo a few nights a week and I think there is judicious use of TV. When it’s both of us, it’s not bad. I start dinner, son and husband play or kiddo takes a shower if he’s due one, we eat together, and then we normally read a few books on the couch before heading to do PJs, teeth, bedtime story, and cuddle while listening to one audiobook chapter (or more, if I fall asleep). The post-dinner books rather than play seems to help, he’s not getting absorbed in a project. And I like the snuggles, we just bought a couch with a chaise and it’s perfect.
Anonymous says
Question: is all the reading (bedtime story, audiobook) happening in bed or not? The length of bedtime creep is real for us.
Cb says
In bed, we snuggle in and read. When I’m home, we have a strict mom dad alternation pattern so there is no negotiating. My son knows I’m a sucker, my husband’s much quicker than I am.
Anon says
rarely. especially bc i am often solo and my twins are competing for my attention. i think one of the hardest things about being a parent is that other people get the best of your kid – my inlaws recently watched my kids for a weekend, and they said that they were total angels, but they’ve seen how with us there are tantrums, fighting, etc. same thing at school. i’m glad that my kids feel so safe and comfortable with me to let it all out (and i’m glad we dont have problems at school), but man, its exhausting. i feel like i’m just rushing through it so i can get the time to myself before i have to get into bed
Mary Moo Cow says
Yes! You just summed up what I’ve been feeling lately but haven’t been able to articulate: other people get the best of your kid. I’m getting so much pushback from my 4.5 year old. It is not a good relationship right now, but her teacher absolutely adores her and grandparents who babysit after school always say it’s been a great day. I beat myself up over dreading evenings. Thanks for validating my feelings.
Cornellian says
100% My kid is an angel for everyone and has literally never gotten in trouble in 4 years of daycare, but reserve all his sh*t for me.
Anonymous says
I don’t mind the evening routine for the following reasons:
1. We only have one child.
2. I don’t cook separate kid and adult dinners.
3. We don’t do a complicated bedtime routine. Bath, books, done.
4. We put her to bed at 9:00 and she sleeps late in the morning. She gets plenty of decompression time after she gets home and is just tired enough to be ready for sleep without being overtired. I don’t know how anyone puts their kids to bed at 6:30 or 7:00.
Anonymous says
Re: 6:30-7 bedtime- Because child is EXHAUSTED and having screaming meltdowns from 5 pm on. That’s how. Only now at age 7 is kiddo ok to stay up late enough that bedtime routine starts after 7.
Anon says
I think this is really kid-dependent. We only have 2 hours between when my kids get home from school and when we leave their bedroom after tucking them in, we all eat the same dinner, and we don’t do baths on weeknights, but depending on their mood those 2 hours can be super exhausting.
jz says
SAME HERE. i have no idea how anyone gets their kid to bed by 7.
Anon says
Similar here. Only one child. We cook separate kid and adult dinners, but kid only eats 15 or so foods and they are all quick and she typically eats at 6ish and adults eat around 8 or 9ish. She’ll often help me cook adult dinner together (and on the rare occasion try an ingredient but never the completed meal, sigh). Bath or shower after adult dinner (unless we’re getting takeout, in which case we start this during the hour it takes to get delivery to our house), bedtime around 10ish (kid sleeps until 8ish). Kiddo is old enough now (4.5) that she likes to soak and play solo (or last night “make potions” out of bath soap in the rinsing cup) in the bathtub so I either putter around and fold laundry or answer work emails on my phone while ducking in and out to make sure she’s not flooding the bathroom and then I take 5 minutes to wash her and her hair at the end. I have at other times taken a (non-breakable) glass of wine and book to just lounge on the bathroom floor until she is ready to be scrubbed. Brush and braid her hair, PJs, and a quick book or two and she gets tucked into bed with her tablet until she falls asleep.
Anon says
When we had a 6:30 bedtime it was never a challenge to get my kid to fall asleep. She dropped naps very early and went to bed easily before 7 pm until she was almost 4, at which point we pushed bedtime back. The challenging part was squeezing the entire evening routine into a couple hours. The main things that made it work were picking her up early (we aimed to be home from daycare before 5) and not doing baths every night.
Anonymous says
Really? Both my kids sleep 7pm-7am and it’s awesome.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
My kids are similar to yours. My BFF has a low sleep needs kid, and her 5 year old DD is happily awake until 9:30-10, and has been since she was a baby. It really depends.
Anon says
Kids can change too. I had a very high sleep needs infant and toddler, who is now in preschool and definitely on the lower sleep needs end of the spectrum. My mom jokes that she got all the sleep she needed for the rest of her life in her first 3 years (she slept 12-13 hours a night until after her third birthday) but I almost wonder if there is some truth to that? Like if you can be chronically sleep-deprived, maybe you can also be chronically well-rested and stock up on sleep so you need less later on?
Boston Legal Eagle says
My older kid often falls asleep right around 7. Remote work helps a lot as we can get the kids from aftercare/daycare by 5 and home 5 minutes later. Dinner is at 5:30, then bath for the older one at around 6 (if you only do baths a few times a week, this becomes easier), brush teeth and clothes after, in his room at around 6:30/6:40. He plays (or, lately, dances), then books, then asleep. Younger one is in his crib by 7:30.
We get plenty of time with the kids as they are up between 6-6:30 in the mornings and we don’t leave for drop off until around 7:50.
AwayEmily says
What keeps me sane is building in some pockets of time where I am not kid-wrangling. If both parents are around, we make sure that we each get left alone while either cooking or cleaning (we trade off these jobs). And then after dinner the kids know (after several years of training) that if they finish early they need to play on their own for fifteen minutes or so while my husband and I talk about “boring things.” If I’m parenting on my own, I put on a show for them while I make dinner. Basically I *really* need some time when I am not being touched or demanded things by tired kids and if I can get that then I can enjoy the other parts more.
Realist says
I haven’t really found enjoyment. Sticking with a very strict routine seems to help, and quickly ending any minor problems or friction points seems to be key. I feel like if things start to slip in the evening routine, it quickly amounts to frustration. So if kid is doing something like delaying brushing their teeth by singing annoying songs three days in a row, then I problem solve techniques to stop the singing or incorporate one reasonable song into the routine. For me, if you let even little things go in the evening routine, it doesn’t take long for the whole thing to just become incredibly painful with delay tactic after delay tactic and annoying issue after annoying issue. Things we have had to deal with are:
-making every single transition in the routine as smooth as possible
-changing the order of things to avoid delay tactics (we found it was easier to lay out clothes and brush teeth and everything else before bath started so that after bath it is directly to pajamas and into bed)
-removing privileges (if you get out of bed and start jumping around, then bedtime book is over and it is lights out).
-constant reminders to stay calm and not start riling ourselves up after bath as we get into pajamas and into bed. The rule is slow movement and soft and quiet voices after bath is over to start preparing bodies for sleep.
-timers for bathtime. My kid loves bath, so sometimes we start a visual timer so they know that any delays to brush their teeth and get ready for bath is just reducing the time they have to spend in the bath.
I think the way to enjoy evening routine is to offload it onto babysitters or take turns with DH. Finding ways to make it less awful don’t exactly made it enjoyable for me.
anonM says
How old are your kids? I made a detailed bedtime and morning chart (task + photo) for my 4yo, and now 2yo and 4yo really like going through it and it is less nagging. It is a lot still, but it makes it easier to say “check the chart, once everything is done we can have Fun Time” (thanks AwayEmily) or “you can do a project!” or whatever other reward there is. I also find it way less overwhelming when we are both home, and can split up bath/kitchen cleanup and avoid the sit-on-the-couch-doom-scroll-procrastinating thing after bedtime because I don’t want to get back up to clean the kitchen. I also am MUCH happier and enjoy evenings more when we can go for walks, so cheers to warmer weather for all of us in 4-seasons places! Another thing I have found is bathtime is less irritating and much more fun if I embrace it instead of rushing it — not every time, but at leaste once a week I try to do bubble bath, music, glow-sticks, and/or color tablets. (I loved the foam scented soap thing — if your kids don’t have sensitive skin look for some of those!).
Spirograph says
How old are your kids? I enjoy the ritual of reading a chapter of book-of-the month once everyone is fully ready for bed. But the process of getting 3 kids fed, bathed (usually at least one each night, sometimes more) and with pjs on and teeth brushed is not enjoyable. A good day is getting through that smoothly without it being actively frustrating/infuriating. My kids are, in theory, self-sufficient at all the bedtime prep, so DH and I try to chat while one of us cleans up dinner… but more often than not we have to break up bickering, issue several reminders what the kids are supposed to be doing, or one of the kids has an end-of-day meltdown.
It is what it is.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
My kids are 4 and 1 and are in bed no later than 7:30. I solo parent a good chunk of the time, and right now we have a grandparent living with us which is a huge help. Some night are better than others. But usually:
1. I don’t cook dinner with kids around (unless it’s like, eggs) – all actual cooking is done in after they are in bed/weekends/IP or rice cooker while I WFH – the only prep is warming stuff up, cutting fruit, putting bread in toaster oven, etc. when kids are around. On quesadilla night, I’ve actually started just using the oven – not as tasty but a hands off-way to make 6 quesadillas. I eat with the kids, DH usually eats later (I leave his food on a covered plate).
2. Fun Music – I love Afrobeats, or will do a fun station – I do not listen to Disney/Kid songs.
3. Even if I’m solo with kids, DH is usually available to clean (as is the grandparent). So I am DONE after putting them down/wrangling items for the next day. I also try to pick up here and there during dinner (e.g. 1 year old drops a ton of food and we have an interested dog prone to GI issues, so I just scoop up what I can and throw it in the sink).
4. Streamlined routine – I get 1 year old ready for bath, 4 year old picks the book and then joins us in the bathroom. Everyone in tub, teeth brushed in tub, and 4 year old gets out first, gets in PJs, and goes to read while 1 year old plays. While I get 1 year old into PJs, 4 year old “helps” by handing me diaper, cream, etc. Then we snuggle and read 1 book together (my favorite part of the evening). After 4 year old and I say good night to 1 year old, I spend a few extra minutes chatting with 4yo and then LIGHTS OUT.
Anonymous says
It can be crazy but here’s what helps us – From March – October our kids go outside after dinner. In the summer DH and I sit outside with them. The winter is tougher. We don’t do a bath every night (every other night). We bath our kids together (2.5 and 5) unless they get too wild. DH gets DS out of the bath first and reads him, I wash DDs hair, then milk, brush teeth, books, bed. When I solo parent (which is a lot!!) they watch tv from 6:30-7 while I do dishes.I do really enjoy reading time every night.
So Anon says
I want to offer a bit of light and hope that it gets better. My kids are now a bit older (8 and 11), and I find our evenings to be great (most of the time). I stop working by 6 and walk the few feet to start dinner. My daughter either does her homework at the counter or watches an episode of tv as I listen to a podcast and make dinner. My son is hanging in his room and generally chatting with/Facetiming his friends. We eat dinner between 6:30 and 7:00. I make one meal for all of us. Dinner conversations are fun and interesting (I ban minecraft and roblox as a topic of dinner conversation). We talk about school, current events, and I laughed until my stomach hurt the other night at something my son said. When dinner is over, they help clean-up, get dessert and chase each other around like mad men. My son goes up to shower every night by 7:45, and my daughter follows shortly thereafter. They can both shower independently, but my daughter needs help rinsing shampoo from her long hair. Then it is bedtime. My daughter still wants me close as she falls asleep, which is my current rough point. It does get easier!!
Anon says
Nope. I have one 4 year old for context. I enjoy the weekends and vacations when we can actually play and have fun. Weekday evenings are just herding her from one task to the next and even when she’s behaving ok, it’s not what I consider fun.
anon says
I’m considering a trip to Chicago and wondering if anyone has ever stayed in the kid’s suite or done the kid’s room package at the Swissotel? Daughter is 9 years old. Just looking for feedback (and I welcome any ideas for kid-friendly activities in Chicago!).
Anonymous says
Lots to do here! I don’t know about Swissotel, but we love the aquarium (the beluga whales are amazing), the children’s museum at Navy Pier (9 might be too old for a lot of it, but there’s a cool climbing setup), Art Institute, Lincoln Park Zoo, the face fountains, and the river walk.
EDAnon says
I have not but I have stayed at the Swissotel and I would not describe it as kid friendly. Caveat that my oldest is 5.5. By 9. he might enjoy it.
The hotel is nice and the location is really great!
EP-er says
My fav Chicago tip is to get a local museum membership to an ASTC membership in your area. It gets you into the Museum of Science and Industry for free! (If you’re into that sort of thing….)
Anon says
Yes! And the Field Museum and the Adler Planetarium. We live about 2 hours from Chicago and our $25 membership to a local museum pays for itself many times over each year even though we barely go to the local place. You do have to live at least 90 miles from any museum you want to use the passport at.
Anon4This says
Just a vent. Yesterday my 14-month-old cried/screamed through bathtime, and didn’t stop until we were snuggled up to read. I had to take him out of the bath first which made 4-year-old cry. DH then comes upstairs to “help”/see what’s going on but is really like, unable to handle the situation and just is an extra body in my way. Ultimately, both kids were fine, and DH tidied up the bathroom as I got them clothed/put them down, but I dislike the addition of having to deal with DH’s reaction to kids just being kids sometimes. I did tell him, next time, just stay away if you can’t handle it, it just adds to the swirl and if I really need you I’ll give you a shout.
EDAnon says
My husband and I have a rule to back off when the other one is handling things, both for parent and kid sanity.
OP says
This is essentially where I landed – I told him if the crying is bothering him (reasonable) NOT to come join it but to step outside or do something else. I may have to make it more explicit of a “rule” in the future, thank you.
Anonymous says
Rant ahead but advice appreciated. Oldest currently attend preschool 8:30-4:30. DH is responsible for drop off most days. He struggles to get kiddo there before 9AM. DH wants kiddo to attend public kindergarten, which starts at 8AM. When I bring up the logistical challenge of that, DH brushes me off with a “it’ll work out.” To me, it’ll work out is code for “this is gonna be your problem” which makes me livid. I’m happy do be responsible for drop off, but I’m not going to be babying both of them every morning getting them out the door on time. We also have one year old twins. How do I talk to DH about school drop off without getting brushed off?
Cb says
I’d step back and let him be late? A few tellings off from a teacher would likely scare him straight?
But I feel you on the lack of foresight. My husband told me we didn’t need aftercare when kiddo starts K “I’ll be working from home, it’ll be cheaper!” I literally am in a different country Monday-Wednesday, what exactly is your plan from 3-6 every day? Rush him home, plop him in front of the TV, and try to work when he wants attention?
Anon says
+1 Let him fail and deal with the consequences. At this age the blame will be on him, not your kid (with a teen they’d blame the kid, but no one is going to fault a 5 year old for not being dropped off at school on time).
Anon says
In defense of your husband, now that I’m perma-WFH I basically do what he’s proposing (with an only child Ker) and it’s worked well for us. I pick her up, we have a snack and talk about her day, but then I go back to work and she goes to play by herself. If she entertains herself well, she gets rewarded with some screen time, but it’s not three hours of screentime every day. I do have a spouse who his home most days by 5 but I don’t think it would be a huge struggle for me to be solo with her for 3 hours every day. I frontload my workday, so that after 3 pm my work is lighter and more brainless, it’s mostly triaging email. I’m sure BigLaw attorneys couldn’t do this, but my job is less intense and it’s surprisingly manageable. We do this not to save money but because the aftercare options in our city are awful quality and kids hate to go there. Next year we plan to get her involved in some extracurriculars and then I’ll work from the activity.
Anonymous says
Does your public kindergarten have a bus? Maybe it will be easier if he just needs to make it to the bus on time? But yea, I’d personally approach by discussing who will be responsible for mornings with the kids and then once that is decided let that parent deal with it. My husband does mornings solo with our 3 year old and I basically have no insight into that process because I am already at work when they start getting ready. I trust he is a competent parent and let it go from my mental load.
Cb says
When I’m home on non-teaching weeks, I do the nursery run to the local nursery, but that’s a 25 minute scoot, so it’s fairly straightforward. I’ll help get my son dressed, he goes down for breakfast with my husband while I get dressed, and then we scoot out the door.
Sometimes I’m home on the days where they need to catch a train at 7:30 sharp. I will do cuddles, read a quick book, and help my son get dressed, but stay upstairs for the breakfast, teeth brushing, shoes on bit as I find I’m in the way/a bit of a distraction. And because I’m not normally home for it, I don’t know the exact system.
anon says
Consequences next year will be a lot bigger than for preschool, so I’d just not worry about it now and he’ll figure it out when it really matters. Or at least that’s what would happen at my house. DH has a healthy respect for kids’ elementary teachers and the public school system, whereas preschool felt more optional.
Spirograph says
This might be painful at first, but I would let him deal with it. Be very clear that he is responsible for drop-off, which means leaving by X time. And then work backwards from there. Who’s responsible for making lunch, and ensuring the kid eats, gets dressed, etc. Estimate how long this will take, then multiply by at least .3. Do you have a nanny, or are the twins also in daycare (are you getting 3 kids out of the house or just 1)?
What works for us is that I am responsible for mornings, and DH is responsible for pick up/afternoon, since I am often at work past pick-up time. Due to personalities and the layout of our house, it is much, *much* easier if my husband just goes to work early and gets out of the way in the morning. It’s counterproductive for him to be in the mix in the AM, but he’s hugely helpful at keeping them away while I finish my workday.
Spirograph says
oops, multiply by 1.3, of course!
Anonymous says
I’d let him handle if. I struggled to get my kids to daycare and preschool for 9am but we can make the 7:15 bus nearly every day. With formal school? There are set start times and you have to walk them in and get a late pass if you’re late.
Anon says
Another vote for the bus, if available. Yes, you still have the morning swirl of getting ready, but then you just stick the kid on the bus at the time it comes and you’re done. My kids tend to cooperate better getting ready for a bus than getting in the car, too.
(As an aside, I can’t relate to the current trend of mom horror stories about school pick up line because the bus is so easy…why are so many people picking up their kids?)
Anon says
In my city, the bus isn’t available if you live within some distance of the school, I think 1.5 miles. I think many/most people (us included) aren’t eligible for buses in elementary school.
Anon says
How much does your preschool care about kids being there before 9? I gather some preschools/daycares are very strict about start times, but our university-run preschool isn’t and they’d get big pushback from faculty parents, most of whom have flexible schedules, if they implemented a rule that everyone has to be there by 9 am. We normally drop off between 9 and 9:30 and our kid is never the last one dropped off. But both my husband and I understand that K-12 school is different and the start time is not a suggestion. It’s possible your DH will do a better job when the kid actually has to be there at X time?
Also I’m not really sure what your alternative is here. Kid has to go to school by first grade at the latest. Is your thinking that private school has a later start time and will be easier for him to get to?
octagon says
This was us … gently, don’t borrow trouble now. It will be an issue come the fall, but there’s no reason to stress about it this month. My DH was suuuuper lax about getting to preschool on time (often closer to 9:30) and his reasoning was, this is the last time ever that we’ll be able to be chill about it. So, fine. You’ll figure out what your kiddo needs to get ready in the morning. For us (we have to be there at 8:30), we have two half-hour chunks — the first is for all the upstairs things (bathroom routine, clothes, hair) and the second is for downstairs things (breakfast, school bag, etc.) YES, all of those things could be done in about 15 minutes total and it really does take an hour, but it works and kiddo is arriving on time, so I’m rolling with it.
OP says
Thanks everyone! We live .25 miles from school, so he can’t ride the bus. I also brought it up again with DH this morning and he said he’ll need me to do all drop offs (the twins should have a spot in day care by then), so I’ll be able to navigate this myself. I’ll have to let DH know it’s no longer acceptable to spend 1.5 hours cajoling the oldest to eat his eggs. Basically, if I’m responsible for getting him to school, I’ll need to be responsible for the entire morning routine. DH’s work is flexible: maybe I’ll send him out for a run while I get everyone out the door. Thanks again for everyone’s responses.
Cb says
Wait…what? Why would you do all drop offs? .25 mile is a 5 minute walk. He could do drop off and then go run.
EDAnon says
He could make the walk to school the warm up before his run!
Cb says
Yeah, I love when I get to do dropoffs. I get a 3-4 mile walk, get to chat with people in the village, and by the time I get home, my brain is awake and ready to work.
Anon says
Oh that sounds lovely. I’m so excited for walking drop-offs next fall when my kid starts K a mile from our house. Daycare is over 4 miles from our house, so not really possible to walk unless you wanted to devote half the day to it.
Anonymous says
Yeah, if your husband has the flexible schedule, why is this all your job?
Anonymous says
Don’t. Don’t talk about it. Don’t help. Confirm “that’s fine, but drop off is still on you I will not be helping.” And he will figure it out.
Coats and carseats says
I’m sure this has been discussed, but how does everyone handle kids coats + car seats? I have a toddler and a preschooler and we’ve just been taking coats on and off when we load them up and get them out. Is there a better way? Has anyone tried those “car seat safe coats”? Are they actually safe? Are they warm enough for frigid climates?
Anonymous says
I live in WI. In the winter, my toddler wears a carseat-safe puffer (Primary) or Columbia fleece + (hat & mittens, if needed). On really frigid mornings, we wrap her in a blanket on the way to the car. The car heats up pretty fast, so we we wouldn’t want her in something really warm like her snowsuit anyway. On rainy days, she wears her raincoat backwards and unzipped to the car, and she’s under an umbrella so her head doesn’t get wet. She doesn’t wear the raincoat in the carseat, it’s either draped over her or tossed on the seat next to her.
Anon says
Hi Wisconsin friend!
I also live in Wisconsin and either use carseat safe coats or just make them suck it up (our drive to preschool is only 3 minutes). They are 3 and 5, though, so can communicate if they were especially cold. We do sometimes use blankets in the car. Like the previous posted, my kids tend to get hot if they’re bundled in the car for long.
We have an attached garage, which influences my answer.
Anon says
We also use a thin/safe puffer and open it up so that the seat belt straps go against the chest. the coat is really only on their backs and adds no unsafe bulk.
Cornellian says
For shorter trips, you might put them in a thinner layer and then cover their car seat. I’ve honestly thought about getting my son like a poncho or something as an outer layer that he can easily get off when he gets in the seat and put over his lap or whatever.
anonM says
FWIW, my DD loves her poncho (but still pulls it off in the car, defeating some of the convenience, but still pretty easy. DS barely used it. Soooo maybe don’t spend a fortune because they seem a bit hit or miss???
Anonymous says
We keep our cars in the garage so we don’t need coats on the way to the car. Use a blanket or put the coat on backwards over the car seat straps to keep them warm in the car. Put the coat on at the destination.
Anon says
We use 3-in-1 coats and have the kids just wear the inner layer in the car. It’s not really warm enough for frigid climates, so they bring the outer layer to school for recess or we bring it in the car to put on when we get to our destination if we’re going to be outside, or whatever, but it’s a somewhat warm, wind-proof layer than doesn’t mess up the safety of their car seat.
Anon says
I live in the Midwest though not one of the coldest parts. We’ve honestly just never worn coats in the car. Our car is kept in the garage, which I believe is at least 20 degrees warmer than the outside temperature, so unless the temperature is subzero outside (which is rare in our area) it’s not that big a deal to ride in the car without a coat for a couple minutes waiting for the heat to kick in. My kids have never seriously complained about it, anyway. We put coats on at the destination, although if the outside temp is above about 30, I often don’t even bother putting coats on for the 50 feet walk into school. Obviously coats go into school with them so they have them for recess.
So Anon says
I live in northern New England, and temps can routinely be in the single digits in the mornings. Our jackets need to be warm and/or layered. I didn’t have a garage when my kids were little. If possible, I would go start the car 5-10 minutes before we needed to leave with the heat on full blast. My kids wore a fleece, mittens/thin kid gloves and a hat in the car. We established that the routine was always jackets off when in the car seats. They would take them off as they were crawling into their car seats, or I would pull them off after they were sitting and before I buckled them. I had “car blankets” that I tried to remember to bring inside so that they were warmer than the car. We (the three of us) managed the arrangement just fine!
anonamama says
We have a 1 car garage and we’re often getting into the uncovered car in the morning. In this scenario, LL Bean sweater fleece, columbia thin puffer or Buckle Me Baby coat. Plus hats, umbrella in rain, or bundled up extra with blankets (we have 2 in each car) as weather necessitates. I’ve bought 2 of the Buckle Me coats secondhand and really like them. It’s a little extra work to get in/out of, but worth it if it is important to you. Would recommend against the hooded one – we finally cut the hood off as it was a major PITA.
anon says
is covid over? i’m so confused and don’t know how to step back into the world. our scouts are doing sleepovers in museums when we haven’t stepped foot inside a museum in years. I want my kids to be able to participate in activities with their friends and make memories, but I havent figured out what we’re comfortable with yet. It feels so abrupt. How are you all handling going back to “normal”?
Anon says
No, it’s not over at all. The societal reaction right now is so silly. We’re in a lull, numbers are going to start rising again soon – just look at what’s happening in much of Europe which has higher vax rates and likely at least as much “natural” immunity.
We are doing some more things (travel and indoor activities where we can mask, but not indoor dining) while numbers are low. I don’t know what we’re going to do if/when people start teasing my kid for being the only one in a mask, which she likely will be in many situations (red state). I don’t want her to be ostracized by her peers, but neither DH nor I think getting this virus is no big deal, even in vaccinated people.
Anonymous says
This is where we land. COVID is not over. Unmasked gatherings are a no-go for our family. We are taking advantage of the temporary lull to do more indoor activities with masks, go to the dentist, etc. so we are ready to lock down again for the next surge.
anon says
Serious question: are people not going to the dentist because of covid? Because… that seems extremely unwise
Anon says
A lot of people here need therapy for their Covid-related anxiety. Wish they’d do that instead of fearmongering at the rest of us.
EDAnon says
I skipped the dentist at first (2020), but I (and my kids who are/were unvaccinated) all resumed going in 2021 and have been on track since then.
Anon says
I didn’t go while I was unvaccinated. I have an autoimmune disease so I was/am more cautious than a lot of people. And I’m also highly skeptical that going to the dentist every six months is really necessary. It’s a somewhat arbitrary frequency invented by dentists who aren’t exactly unbiased – more visits = more money. You obviously shouldn’t go three years between dental visits, but I have at various times in my life not gone every six months on the dot and not suffered any ill effects. I had gone in February 2020, so I knew that waiting until I was vaccinated would put me at just over a year between visits, which I was perfectly comfortable with. I agree not going to the dentist post-vaccine seems anxious, unless you or someone in your household has very serious health conditions.
Anonymous says
Not during surges, no. I am not going to sit there with no mask for an hour when there is a high likelihood that someone else in the office is infected. Now that we know that there will be periodic surges and ebbs it’s pretty easy to take care of riskier things like dental appointments during the lulls.
anon says
These threads are fascinating to me. I live in GA, which never really shut down except for a 6-week stay at home order in early 2020. We were back to 75% of normal by last summer and I’d say we’re at 95% of normal now. I only wear a mask at the doctor’s office and on planes, although I always have one with me in case I turn up some place and find it unexpectedly crowded. My best friend, on the other hand, has been locked down in the same way that some on this board are for the entirety of the last two years – hasn’t been to the dentist, hasn’t been on a plane, hasn’t seen any friends in person. She is really, really struggling with how to stop doing that now because (by her own admission) her ability to make risk assessments just feels entirely nonfunctional – it’s like she’s become less tolerant of COVID risks over time, rather than more, even though the situation is much safer now.
Anon says
i’m with you. the studies i’ve read about the clots found on people’s lungs/hearts and the impact on the brain a year post covid are scary to me, especially since i have 2 young kids at home who cannot be vaccinated.
Anonymous says
Those museum sleepovers are he11. We started opting out of them even before COVID because they always left kiddo cranky for the next several days.
Spirograph says
It’s over if you want it to be over. I am in that camp. I also understand that some people aren’t, and if they want to find more covid-conscious ways of socializing with me, I’m happy to do that. I think it’s pretty fluid; I probably would wear a mask on a plane or if I were going to a crowded show or sporting event, but I’m going about my daily life without a mask and allowing my kids to do the same. Masks are still required at our school and some of our extracurriculars, though. My daughter prefers to wear one indoors in public even if not required, and she’s empowered to make that decision. I’d let my kids sleep in a museum if they wanted to, but I also wouldn’t insist that they do it if they weren’t comfortable.
(Highly vax’d community, masking is still common but not required, cases low and declining, I had a very mild case of omicron during the Dec-Jan surge)
Anonymous says
It’s not actually over, even if you want it to be. You are just done caring. Big difference.
Spirograph says
I mean, sure, if you want to be pedantic. I answered in what I thought was the spirit of the question. Covid is no longer governing all public interactions, the economy, my childcare situation, or taking up extensive real estate in my head. So for me, right now, it is over. I’m not going to apologize for that, but you do you if you want to continue being more cautious. Everyone’s risk calculus is different. Mine might be different 6 months from now if there’s a new variant and another surge. I reserve the right to take in new information as it becomes available and adjust accordingly.
Anonymous says
On behalf of my mother in law with cancer and my father with an autoimmune disorder, thank you for not caring. It’s been so nice to easily write off the heartless.
Good luck with your personal one in three chance of developing cancer!
Anon says
I’m hiding in my house until the rest of you figure out that hundreds of thousands of annual deaths and disabling X% of kids and adults is not a sustainable “new normal” after all. I give it 3 to 4 years.
Anonymous says
Unfortunately, I don’t think everyone else is going to come around. The longer we go on like this, the easier it gets to accept the hundreds of thousands of annual deaths and the massive burden of disability as the cost of flitting about maskless. After all, the people who die or are disabled are weaklings who deserve it, right? All the healthy, strong, virtuous people will be fine even if they catch COVID repeatedly.
Anon says
+1 yeah I think the fact that we’re currently at a 9/11’s worth of death every TWO DAYS and no one cares means we’ve accepted a staggering level of death and disability as the new normal, and that’s unlikely to change unless the virus mutates significantly and becomes a lot more virulent in a population with significant immunity. IMO it would take a variant that hospitalizes a significant number of vaccinated people under age 65 to change anything at this point. Hopefully that won’t happen, but the more this spreads and mutates the more of a possibility it is.
Anon says
when you put it that way, it is so so sad to think about all of these people dying and taht we are ok with it.
its interesting to think about how we become desensitized to death in certain situations and not others. if covid was killing that number of children every day, i bet society’s reaction would be very very different.
Anon says
I mean, yeah. The vast majority of people who are dying now could have been vaccinated but chose not to be. To be clear, I am not saying that we should get rid of all protections – we do need to protect elderly and immunocompromised people. But it’s not at all surprising that we aren’t seeing the deaths now the same way we did earlier in the Pandemic. They are qualitatively different.
There are also issues of course with humans just not being equipped to take in numbers that huge. But at the end of the day, this is not just about people being monsters. Most of us took every precaution we could until and after we were vaccinated. It’s just not a sign that 90% of people are horrible people that they are relaxing once it’s pretty clear the risk to 99% of vaxxed people AND 99% of the remaining unvaxxed-not-by-choice population is low. That does NOT mean I agree with removing all the restrictions the way we have been. I just think these conversations have been far too black and white.
Anonymous says
The sole focus on death still mystifies me. What about all the people with long COVID? Even the vaccinated can get long COVID from breakthrough infections. It’s American ableism at work. People with long COVID are invisible and don’t matter.
Anon says
There is good evidence at this point that vaccinated people almost universally don’t get long Covid.
Anonymous says
Actually there is plenty of good evidence that vaxxed people do get long COVID.
Anon says
There’s really not. This is fearmongering.
Anon says
If something can’t go on, it won’t. The “new normal” is not sustainable and it will get more and more obvious as each wave brings more death and disability, even to the rich and powerful.
Anon says
It’s not at all clear each wave will bring more death and disability. Generally things have been improving with each wave for people who are sensible and chose to get vaccinated. With Omicron we apparently got an inherently less virulent virus, but that is just luck and not necessarily going to happen with every mutation. But even a more virulent virus will not cause the same level of death and disability in a highly immune population that a more mild wave caused in an immunonaive population. We’re never going back to March 2020 when the population as a whole had no immunity to the virus.
I’m not equating Covid to flu, I realize the viruses themselves are very different and the scale of death was different, but past flu pandemics are instructive about how viruses behave and what happens when most of the population has immunity to the virus. The first couple of years are always the worst as the population builds immunity, then the virus still circulates but doesn’t cause the same level of disease (even with mutations) because there is a high level of population immunity. Anecdotal early evidence suggests Covid reinfections are statistically still pretty rare (especially after vaccination) and tend to be mild. We have not seen a virus cause worse and worse disease in a population over time until everyone is dead or disabled. That’s just not how immunity works.
Anon says
The vaccines are actually waning with each wave, with prior immunity fading as well. BA.2 is evading both vaccines and BA.1 immunity.
You are right this virus is not the flu. Endemic Covid will be more along the lines of endemic Polio than the flu.
Individual people aren’t being monsters for the most part, but on the whole they have created quite the monster.
I appreciate the perspective on not thinking in Black and White, but I don’t think the public is prepared for the average scenario of what endemic Covid will likely mean for our hospitals, schools, and public health. Much less the worst case scenario if it turns more virulent and vaccine evasive.
Anon says
Yeah, people, you know what has eventually become less virulent and been a circulating endemic problem instead of a pandemic that brings ever increasing amounts of death and disability? Every pandemic in human history ever. There’s good evidence that the reason long Covid was so prevalent is not because Covid is different from other viruses (which also have long forms) but because our immune systems had zero idea how to react. Now because of vaccines and infections, they do have an idea. I want vaccines for my 2-year-old desperately but this idea that every subsequent round of Covid will be like the first is just not scientifically supported.
In addition, many people with long Covid are slowly recovering. Vaccines help and so does time. It’s horrible and nobody should wish it on anyone but the idea that it’s always forever is also wrong.
Anon says
I mean, “evading” is vague. Yes, generally the vaccine has been less effective with each variant, although personally I think it’s really comforting that no variant has been able to fully evade vaccine-induced immunity and severe illness remains rare in vaccinated people and extraordinarily rare in boosted people. This could have been so much worse if the vaccines didn’t hold up. There are pan-coronavirus vaccines and antivirals in development that are likely to be more effective against a broader spectrum of variants. Individuals who are vaccinated and recovered have “superimmunity” that generally seems to hold up extremely well against variants. Pandemics don’t last forever, they have all, without exception, ended, and I think there’s a lot of reason for optimism. BA.2 may be slowly displacing BA.1, but there’s no evidence it’s going to cause a massive surge like the original Omicron variant did. Many countries with high prevalence of BA.2 (Denmark, South Africa) have very low or rapidly declining case numbers with basically no mitigations in place.
I agree this situation has not been ideal. I wish we’d handled it better instead of just accepting the entire population would get Covid at least once, particularly before young children could get vaccinated. But this idea that the virus is going to be this virulent in the population forever and cause death or disability in the vast majority of us is fearmongering that is not supported by science. I don’t think there’s any scientific basis for suggesting that endemic post-vaccine Covid is going to look like endemic pre-vaccine polio. But honestly, even if it did, the equivalent of endemic pre-vaccine polio is not something that’s going to destroy life as we know it. Depending on your age, your grandparents or even parents grew up before polio vaccines. The vaccines were amazing and I’m so glad that fewer people suffer polio complications than back then, but the vast majority of people back then still had a normal life and were not permanently handicapped by the disease. There were occasional closures of public places like swimming pools during outbreaks, but the disruption to normal life and mental health was nothing compared to what we experienced the last two years during Covid.
Anonymous says
Plenty of people suffered from post-polio syndrome for the rest of their lives, including a member of my family. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
Anon says
Yes, and they were infected before the vaccines. That work really well. Like Covid vaccines.
Anon says
LOL at Anon at 4:25 who has apparently never heard of smallpox or malaria or many of the other endemic diseases that don’t simply become no big deal over time.
Anon says
You mean small pox and malaria that were eliminated from the world and this continent respectively thanks for medical and other science that is far less advanced than what we have now to attack Covid? Of course malaria is still a huge deal and should be a huge public health priority for us all. But our strategies to address it are not “tell everyone they should be afraid forever.”
Anon says
Also it’s just wrong to say that the virulence of small pox wasn’t decreased by population-wide exposure. It super, super was. That doesn’t make the damage it did any less horrifying and tragic. Nobody is saying that. But this idea that Covid is going to be like this forever and get more damaging on a population level forever is not supported.
Anon says
LOL what? You’re the one who has no idea what you’re talking about.
Malaria is not a virus. It’s an illness caused by a parasite, and not a good example for predicting viral behavior.
Smallpox is extremely deadly in immunonaive populations (~30% for the most common strain), but this does not disprove my point. My point is not “who cares about vaccines, viruses are no big deal!” My point is that in pretty much all historical pandemics there has been much less death and disease once a population has built up immunity to the pathogen due to infection and/or vaccination. If you think that statement is inaccurate, please provide another counterexample because smallpox ain’t it. Smallpox actually proves my point even more than Covid or flu, because reinfection in smallpox survivors is basically impossible.
Mary Moo Cow says
It feels like I held my nose and jumped in the deep end to get it over with, but when I think about it, it was more of a measured swim into the deep end. I started with eating indoors early last year, then only wearing a mask indoors if the store requested it (last fall, a few months after my county dropped the mandate), then a few indoor-outdoor playdates with one trusted family, going back to the office 3 days a week in December, a few indoor birthday parties since December, indoor playdates and staying in a hotel in January, then letting my kids not wear a mask in school once masks were optional in February. I would say most people in my social circle/community now see it as, crisis is over and we’ll deal with covid like we do other contagious diseases (for some, that means masking, for some that means life is normal, and we all respect each other’s individual decisions.) *Cue the slings and arrows.*
Anonymous says
I think we need to re-evaluate our approach to other contagious diseases. Exactly why do we put up with flu season every year? Even with annual vaccination, my family usually gets at least one strain of the flu, sometimes more than one. Why do we tolerate the disruption of every-other-week colds in preschool? COVID has just exposed the total inadequacy of our general approach to communicable disease. We need strictly enforced flu and COVID vaccine mandates in schools, frequent hand-washing in schools and child care facilities (my kid almost never got sick the years she was in the class with the peanut allergy kid, where everyone was required to wash their hands before and after lunch and snack), improved ventilation/filtration/UV air sanitization in schools/child care facilities/offices/public spaces, masking on planes and public transit, masking in health care facilities, and occasional temporary mask mandates in schools during outbreaks of any viral illness.
Anonymous says
This is a simple cost-benefit analysis, that’s why. Flu and colds (and covid, arguably, for the moment) are more of an inconvenience than an existential threat for the vast majority of people. With extensive wfh options in many industries, there’s not a huge cost in productivity lost to business; people don’t even take sick leave, they just keep their sniffles at home or let their kids watch TV and try to get a day’s work in. Retrofitting all public spaces is expensive. Masks are expensive in terms of political will and kids’ social development. And fundamentally, people just don’t care that much to make these investments at the opportunity cost they’d carry for other public works or other business initatives. This board skews very anxious about covid, even compared to my covid-conscious social circle IRL.
Anon Lawyer says
I agree with you but if there’s one thing we’ve learned from this, it’s that even most liberal parents who got vaccinated themselves aren’t interested in vaccinating their kids against Covid so I can’t imagine it’ll happen.
Anon says
Listen to indoor air quality experts today and then read up on John Snow and Ignaz Semmelweis. It takes humans decades to muddle our way through these things, even when the science emerges quickly and clearly. But we’ll figure it out, just as we eventually figured out it was a good idea to drink clean water and wash our hands.
Anon says
I think so many people have had covid recently that they’re taking advantage of the lingering immunity while they can. I’ve had 3 shots and omicron recently – now is my time to get out and about! I’m also more comfortable taking my unvaccinated toddler places, at least for the 90 period post-covid.
anon says
I’m taking advantage of the relatively low numbers while I can, knowing they’ll likely rise again. We were super cautious, much more so than many of our peers, and I am done with it all.
EDAnon says
That’s where I am. Numbers are pretty low here, so we are embracing (some) normalcy. I expect to recede.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
+1 this is where I land. I have 2 unvaxxed kids but we just got through a round of Omnicron in early Feb so taking advantage of it while it lasts. Also for those that are camping out at home 2020 style – no judgement, as you are doing what’s best for you and yours, but you have to understand that the mental/family health ramifications of that type of isolation is terrible for many, many of us especially since the picture now is not the same as then for most people.
Anon says
I don’t think anyone is saying they’re staying home 2020-style? The two camps, such as it were, seems to be people who are living fully normally and people who are still taking some precautions. I consider myself extremely Covid cautious by the standards of this s1te, and we’re traveling, doing anything outdoors and, at least while numbers are low, doing stuff we can do while masked indoors (so basically everything but indoor dining). I’m in no hurry to remove my mask or do indoor dining, but that’s mainly because I see little benefit to those things. Isolation was terrible for my mental health, but wearing a mask and moving activities outside where possible does not harm my mental health at all.
Anon says
You mean except for the people on this site in this thread who say they’re hiding in their house until the rest of us realize we’re killing our children in 3-4 years?
Anon says
That’s one person. I think there are a lot of us in the middle, and as someone who skews pretty cautious compared to many here, I don’t like being told I’m hiding in my house because I’m not. As someone said below there’s a TON of middle ground between never leaving your house and living a maskless, 2019-style life.
Anon says
Well, I am also taking precautions and don’t appreciate the daily threads on how I’m a terrible mother for taking my kid to the grocery store on occasion. And unless it’s one poster agreeing with themselves over and over it’s definitely not just one person.
Anon says
There have not been daily threads criticizing someone for taking their kid to a grocery store in the post-vax Covid era. There may have been an occasional snide remark, but that’s not the general attitude of this place and you know it.
Anon says
It’s the implication of all the threads we’ve had about how people are kidding themselves and so the wise poster is homeschooling indefinitely and everyone else will regret it when they realize their kid is dead or disabled. If you think that isn’t saying something about those of us who do things like sending our kids to daycare I don’t know what to tell you. Frankly I think it’s making this site close to unreadable.
Anon says
I send my kid to daycare too, and have since before vaccines were available to adults. I don’t think one or two people who are cautious to the extreme makes this s1te unreadable or is a personal judgment on me or the many people here who are less cautious than me. I don’t know everyone’s situation. Maybe it’s anxiety, maybe it’s unique circumstances that make their extreme caution warranted. My family is generally low risk and I realize we are privileged to be in that situation. I don’t judge anyone who chooses to live a more locked down life, just like I would hope others don’t judge me for continuing to wear a mask or pulling back on indoor activities if things surge again. I think you’re taking this way too personally.
Anon says
It’s not about people choosing to be locked down. It’s about constant fearmongering about how we are all going to get heart, lung and brain damage from not locking down like it’s March 2020 indefinitely.
Anon says
Well, unfortunately there is a lot of evidence that Covid causes long-term heart, lung and brain damage and it’s not clear how well vaccines protect against that. I think at this point a lot of people feel (as do I) that you have to weigh the mental health and developmental risks of continued isolation against the physical health risks of the virus and for many healthy people the balance probably tips in favor of taking on more virus risk to have a more normal life. But I also think there is a real tendency among a subset of people here to want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend Covid is a benign virus in the vaccinated. That’s not at all clear, and I don’t think there’s any harm in someone explaining how they reached a different risk-benefit decision.
Anon says
Anon at 8:41, your comment acknowledged questions instead of asserting it as absolute fact so I think is not what I’m talking about.
anon says
We have reached the point where keeping our kids out of normal life is more harmful than the risk of Covid. Children are being harmed by the lack of social interaction and we don’t know yet the effects masks have on babies’ and toddlers’ social and emotional development. Teen suicides are very high. My family has chosen to return to normalcy and we are all much happier for it. You can choose to hide in your house if you want to but surely you can understand why many people do not think that is necessary or appropriate.
Anon says
there is also a lot of room for socializing between hide in your house and go indoors unmasked in crowded places
Anon says
This. Taking some precautions like wearing a mask in public indoor spaces doesn’t mean you’re “hiding in your house.”
Anon says
It is other peoples rush to normal that are forcing immune compromised families to live stuck forever in 2020. Simple measures like masks in public buildings could make our lives more normal, but no, my family isn’t allowed a modicum of normalcy unless I literally put my life on the line for it. Glad you’re happy though.
Anon says
People who are so immunocompromised that the vaccines aren’t effective by and large couldn’t live normal lives before Covid either. Which is terrible and awful but not about Covid precautions being lifted at this point.
govtattymom says
This is not true at all. There is a misconception that immunocompromised people were all living in a bubble prior to Covid. Many immunocompromised people (such as those with autoimmune diseases) were living normal lives prior to Covid. They also are generally too healthy to qualify for disability and need to continue to work and take care of themselves. It is really important that people continue to take covid precautions to protect those who are immunocompromised but not in a position to live in a bubble (and, of course, no one really lives in a bubble- doctors generally make you come to their office and people generally have to go out for their own groceries).
Anonymous says
Omg so much this. “But the immunocompromised!” is the main argument I hear in favor of continued mask mandates, and I don’t think it holds water. I have a lot of sympathy for this population, but reject the narrative that they were living carefree lives of cavorting in crowded public places pre-covid and we all need to wear masks until it’s safe for them to do that again. There were germs before March 2020.
Anon says
Vaccines are not less effective in people with autoimmune diseases. People here tend to frequently conflate high risk and immunocomprised. Many Americans are high risk because of age, being overweight or having a particular health condition like an autoimmune disease. But the vaccines offer excellent protection even to the high risk. Only the truly “immunocompromised” won’t mount an immune response to the vaccine, and it’s a much narrower category of people. And generally that group of people is also very vulnerable to more common viruses like flu. I’m not saying their lives are worthless at all, but it is true that anyone who is genuinely “immunocomprised” (and not just older, overweight or has a health condition) could not really live a normal life before Covid.
Anon says
I do understand that there’s a wide spectrum of immunocompromised people but the people for whom the vaccines don’t work are mostly people like organ transplant recipients and people with blood cancer – people who were being told to avoid making doctor’s appointments during flu season if they possibly could before Covid. I am still masking – truly, I do care. But it’s just such a red herring to say we are imprisoning people in their house every time we talk about when to lift restrictions. It’s an unfair bludgeon.
Anon says
Thank you govtattymom. I certainly had to be cautious about many things before Covid due to multiple health issues, but I could go to work, socialize easily, send my kids to school, and travel with extra precautions. I didn’t have to do anything close to lockdowns, though I did miss some winter social and work events when flu numbers were bad in my area. Covid has turned all of that upside down. I don’t want lockdowns and crazy quarantines, but I don’t understand why people can’t keep masking. Especially in essential places like schools, doctor offices, public transport, and grocery stores. Everyone is insisting on 100% of their pre-pandemic life-no masks, no precautions. I would be happy with a small fraction of my pre-pandemic life back.
Anonymous says
I guess I don’t understand why it matters that much, given a low rate of community spread, whether everyone around you is wearing a mask. Just like your point about how you primarily modified your behavior when flu numbers were bad, but could otherwise live your life. If the incidence in the population is low, you’re unlikely to even encounter covid just by wandering around a grocery store, for example. And you’re unlikely to be infected by passing contact, even if you are briefly near someone who’s infected. Add a respirator on your own face and you are even better protected. I get that it’s scary, I get that you feel conspicuous when others are not wearing a mask, I get that universal masking seems like it should be a really small thing to ask… But it’s clear that a majority of Americans don’t see the public health benefit anymore (and of course some never did), and Americans aren’t usually inclined to inconvenience themselves, even slightly, for a vague benefit to a small percentage of people. Once you lose public opinion, the cost to continuing mask mandates is high.
Anonymous says
It’s not over. I’m abiding by the CDC’s recommendations. Right now transmission in our area puts us in the “green” zone, so I feel comfortable doing a lot, but not all, things unmasked. If it’s a crowded space or I will be around a lot of people I don’t know for more than a couple minutes, I will wear a mask. But I’m comfortable in my office without a mask, eating at restaurants indoors, attending/hosting medium sized parties, etc. If/when transmissions rise and we are no longer in the green zone, I will adjust accordingly.
Anonymous says
This is illogical. People you know aren’t any “cleaner” than people you don’t know. Either you don’t want to share air with people outside of your household, or you don’t mind it. Whether you know them shouldn’t matter.
Anon says
This! You do you, but it drives me crazy when people act like people they know are safer than strangers.
Anonymous says
I’m anon at 2:34. It’s not illogical at all. It’s based on trust. I trust the people I know and have relationships with to not show up to an event if they are feeling sick. I don’t have that level of trust with crowds of random people at a big public event. I have been “sharing air” with people outside my household on a very limited basis since like May 2020. I did get covid but it was when I had to go to the ER for an unrelated life-threatening emergency (and was wearing 2 masks), not when I was with the small groups of family and 3 friends that I regularly saw throughout the past 2 years.
Anon says
Not showing up to events sick is pretty irrelevant. You’re infectious up to 48 hours before you feel even the slightest tickle in your throat.
The anecdote about how/when you got Covid is just that: an anecdote. My anecdotal experience is the opposite. Most people I know got it at friend/family gatherings, not from a public space.
You do what you want. I’m not shaming you for choosing to gather with friends or family indoors without masks. But it is not supported by science to say it’s less risky to see only those you know.
Anonymous says
Welp, 14 people in my family got COVID at two separate gatherings over the holidays because “we can trust family.”
Anon says
i think i would feel differently if i had vaccinated kids, but i don’t, so for now we are basically doing anything outside (which is pretty easy where we live) and indoors masked. i dont think my kids are suffering at all, and honestly i’m not either.
Anon says
My whole family is vaccinated (although apparently efficacy of the 5-11 vaccines is terrible) but this is what we’re doing too. I also don’t feel like I or my kids are suffering from wearing a mask. I guess at some point we’ll stop, but I’m not sure when it. It feels like a zero cost thing for us, at least right now.
Anonymous says
Masks are virtually zero cost for our family too, except that they are not a lot of fun for singing or exercise. We do choir but have not been back to the gym.
The nasty old people who pressure others to remove their masks drive me nuts. How exactly does it hurt you if I am “hiding that pretty smile behind a mask”? Grrr.
Anon says
That’s fair. I don’t sing or exercise indoors. My husband has not gone back to the gym, but I think it’s only half because of Covid. We both realized during Covid we enjoy exercising outdoors a lot more. We don’t wear masks outdoors anymore unless we’re socializing in a big group.
I live in a red state and in May or June 2020 when I was getting gas while wearing a mask some guy yelled at me “TAKE OFF YOUR MASK! DON’T LIVE IN FEAR!” but that’s the only negative interaction I’ve had with anyone about it.
CPA Lady says
I don’t think its over, but I have come to accept living in a fairly “normal” way as a tolerable level of risk for my individual circumstances. I understand parents who have kids too young to be vaccinated still altering their lives. If your kid is in scouts, I’m assuming they are old enough to be vaccinated. I think you have to ask yourself, if things aren’t good enough now, when will they ever be good enough? Covid is not ever going away as far as I can tell. The deaths are tragic, certainly, but the majority of them are among the unvaccinated. I am not staying in my house forever for people who won’t even take the first precaution and who have been acting like everything is fine this whole time.
At this point, I’ve been vaxed and boosted, my husband has been vaxed and boosted, kiddo had covid and has been vaxed. We’ve done what we could. Cases are super low here, in an area where half of everyone is unvaccinated. I work full time in a big office building where no one has worn masks for a solid year. There aren’t mask mandates in our local public schools. I have stopped wearing a mask in most public places at this point.
If numbers go up again, I’ll wear a mask again and make kiddo wear one too. But I got back to normal life by acting like things are normal and doing normal stuff. I went back to the gym. I’m going to a concert tonight. I’ve eaten indoors in restaurants. Everyone has to figure out their risk tolerance. This is where mine is at this point.
Anon says
My parents really want to take my kids (two boys 3 and 7) on a Disney cruise in mid-April, leaving from Miami, 5 days. I agreed and I’m going to go too. I think someone mentioned on the recent family vacation post that this was a GOOD idea? I haven’t been on a cruise in a long time. Any tips? How did you organize your day? Please share good and bad experiences!
Anonymous says
I’ll report back after our cruise with grandparents in a few weeks, which will be my first with my kids. But DH and I have been on a few cruises with his parents, and here’s what worked for us:
1. We ate together in the dining room every night, unless we pre-arranged the buffet or a specialty restaurant. Sometimes we’d meet for cocktails beforehand, sometimes not.
2. Whoever was ready first called in the morning (unless we’d pre-arranged NOT meeting for breakfast) to say we’re heading to eat, do you want to join? No drama or hard feelings if the answer was no, or if all the seats at the table were taken before the other couple made it to the breakfast room and we ended up eating separately.
3. You usually get the activity schedule for the next day the night before. We’d just kind of talk through our plans, meet up if we wanted to do the same things anyway, but otherwise go our separate ways and occasionally cross paths at the pool or wherever.
This always worked really well for us because we started from the expectation that we were all on vacation to relax and do things that we enjoyed, and it was TOTALLY OK if we didn’t spend a bunch of time together.
Anon says
I haven’t been on a Disney cruise, but I think generally cruises and all-inclusive resorts are the best way to do multi-gen trips. Our approach has been: 1) separate cabins, 2) dinners together in the dining room every night, 3) coordinating plans for activities and breakfast/lunch (may be together or separate, but it’s discussed each day and a plan is made) and 4) separate plans after dinner (this is mostly because my kid and parents go to bed very early – if you have later bedtimes you might want to coordinate evening plans).
For activity planning, look at the ports and figure out what you really want to do in each one, if anything, and plan excursions in advance, either through the ship or independently. With younger kids, you’ll probably want half day excursions at most and plan the other half day on the ship, either napping or in the pool (or splitting up the parents if you have some kids who nap and some who don’t). If there’s a sea day in your itinerary, that’s a good chance to do more of the scheduled ship activities that interest you, e.g, karaoke, bridge tours, afternoon tea, etc.
Anonymous says
We took a Disney cruise with 3 generations and 6 family units just before COVID. It was the best vacation ever. You will need two cabins, as there is a limit of 4 passengers per cabin. You can get adjoining cabins. On the Caribbean ships a veranda cabin is not much more expensive than an interior cabin and is very nice. I’d try to get on the fireworks side of the ship if at all possible so you can watch the fireworks from your veranda.
We enjoyed ordering room service coffee and breakfast (no extra charge) most mornings. It saved time and hassle as compared with a dining room breakfast and allowed us to get moving faster. It was also really nice to dine on our own veranda.
We never used the kids’ club. On a 5-day cruise with a port call each day, there wasn’t time. I would do it on a sea day or if we wanted to skip a port excursion. In retrospect I would have stayed on the ship on the Nassau day to enjoy the pool, water slide, kids’ club, etc. with lighter crowds. Nassau was just not that great.
I would not book any third-party shore excursions. We did a third-party dolphin swim in Nassau. It was super sketchy and you were basically held captive on a little private island, where you couldn’t bring your own food or water and lunch was $30+ a person. You had to take a ferry back to the dock, and there was a huge panicked crush of people trying to catch the ferry to avoid being left behind. There was no secure storage for credit cards and passports while in the water. The whole thing was terrifying. On a Disney shore excursion, you are not going to be left behind unless you wander off when you aren’t supposed to.
If you leave your kids’ stuffies out, the cabin attendants will give them pirate bandanas on pirate day.
There is a self-guided mystery scavenger hunt game thing that takes you all over the ship and is fun to do.
A lot of families showed up with coordinating custom t-shirts. If this is your thing it is fun to do. My kid and I enjoyed wearing mouse ears to dinner every night.
Nobody dresses up for the “formal” dinner. It was a waste of effort bringing a fancy dress.
Get as early a boarding time as possible and pack swimsuits in your carry-on. We boarded at lunchtime and were able to eat in one of the fancier restaurants, then use the water slide.
Anonymous says
We were just on a Disney cruise and loved it! My tips: book your kids in the kids club as soon as online check-in opens (I think 30 days in advance). Book them for every day- easy to cancel if you want to or if your kids don’t like it, but hard to get into once you’re on the boat, I talked to a mom who did not do this and was irate she could only get her kids in one day. My kids LOVED it, and we loved the break. We booked the for the afternoon because that is typically when everyone is a bit burned out, and it was the right call. We would pick them up and go right to dinner.
We did not bother getting off at any spots except Castaway Cay because my 3 yr old wasn’t vaccinated and you had to just stick with the Disney excursions if you had any unvaccinated children. I thought my kids would have more fun on the boat anyway and I think that was the right call.
Disney lets you bring your own alcohol on board in your carry-on, take advantage of this, we had nice happy hours on our balcony with the free room service. And the “drink of the day” is only $6.
Happy to answer more questions if you have them! I was genuinely surprised by how much fun we all had. It was a really nice way for my kids to experience the Disney magic and the adults to get a chance to relax.
In terms of bad experiences, we also left out of the port of Miami, which is possibly the least magical place on earth with terrible signage. Maybe Port Canaveral is nicer, but keep expectations low until you’re actually on the boat.
Anonymous says
Port Canaveral itself was not difficult to navigate, but the parking deck was.
RR says
We are cruising with my parents this summer. A bit different. My kids are teenagers and elementary age. We booked separate cabins. We are planning on dinner together most nights. We booked the excursions we wanted (me, husband, kids) and told my parents what we booked. Of the three we booked, they decided to go with us on one. They’ve been to the places we are going on the other two, so we are doing those on our own, and they will do their thing. We will probably end up exploring together on the days we don’t have excursions, but the idea of the cruise is that we can spend time together AND apart. We also have time before and after without my parents off the cruise.
Definitely have your kids try the kids’ club the first day when you can go in with them and get a sense of how they like it. We were on a Disney cruise when my older two were turning 5, and they weren’t really fans. I expect my older two to love the teen club this time around. My 8 year old will probably be hit or miss.
I also agree that, with kids, I prefer the excursions through the ship. Yes, we could do it on our own. Yes, we could book 3d party excursions. But, when I already have the added stress of wrangling three kids is not the time to figure out how to get myself around a foreign city and back to the boat on time. If it were just my husband and I, I might feel differently.
Anon says
Huh, I would have thought elementary age kids would be way more into the kids’ clubs than teens. My kid is only 4 and we haven’t cruised yet (going next summer with my parents on a small ship that doesn’t have organized kids’ activities) but I cruised a lot as a pre-teen and teen and have horrible memories of my dad making me go to the kids’ club. I never liked it, but it was especially bad as a teen when it was often just me and one or two other kids and there was nothing to do but sit and stare at the wall because we all thought the provided activities were lame (or at least pretended to).
Anonymous says
The Disney kids’ club for under 12 is basically a mini Disney World with all kinds of immersive experiences. The tween club, on the other hand, is a lame windowless room with a video game system. The teen club has a private pool and a private beach beach and looks pretty cool. I could see teens from the same traveling party wanting to hang out together at the teen club just to get away from the grown-ups.
Anon says
Oh wow a private pool sounds really cool. We were never on Disney and after about age 10 or so it was definitely a windowless room with video games and a small dance floor. This was also the late 90s so many parents were comfortable giving teens free rein of the ship. One particularly awful cruise we had twin girls about my age at our dinner table and they laughed hysterically at the idea that anyone our age would go to a teen club, rather than just roam about their ship with their siblings or pals. I’m an introverted only child so I had no siblings or pals. Things are probably different now since parents want kids more closely supervised.
Anonymous says
I realize it’s late and I might ask again tomorrow but when you travel (esp. internationally) do you do any activities with your preschool or younger elementary age kids to teach them about the place you’re going?
Anonymous says
We usually read books about the destination beforehand and visit some “educational” attractions like historical sites or museums.