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Both my kids got the cutest cloth books as babies — they featured all sorts of textures, mirrors, and sounds. Those books, and this fish version, are perfect for babies who may not have the best attention spans.
This book is full of crinkle pages, mirrors, and fun things to touch and grab. The simple story also introduces numbers and colors. It’s washable and includes a teether and hook ring so you can attach it to your stroller/car seat/diaper bag (or if your kids are like mine, they can just gnaw on it).
This soft cloth book is on sale for $14.95 at Amazon.
Sales of note for 4.18.24
(See all of the latest workwear sales at Corporette!)
- Ann Taylor – 50% off full-price dresses, jackets & shoes; $30 off pants & skirts; extra 50% off sale styles
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything; extra 20% off purchase
- Eloquii – 50% off select styles; 60% off swim; up to 40% off everything else
- J.Crew – Mid-Season Sale: Extra 60% off sale styles; up to 50% off spring-to-summer styles
- Lands’ End – 30% off full-price styles
- Loft – Spring Mid-Season Sale: Up to 50% off 100s of styles
- Nordstrom: Free 2-day shipping for a limited time (eligible items)
- Talbots – Spring Sale: 40% off + extra 15% off all markdowns; 30% off new T by Talbots
- Zappos – 29,000+ women’s sale items! (check out these reader-favorite workwear brands on sale, and some of our favorite kids’ shoe brands on sale)
Kid/Family Sales
- Carter’s – Up to 70% off baby items; 50% off toddler & kid deals & 40% off everything else
- Hanna Andersson – Up to 50% off spring faves; 25% off new arrivals; up to 30% off spring
- J.Crew Crewcuts – Up to 60% off sale styles; up to 50% off kids’ spring-to-summer styles
- Old Navy – 30% off your purchase; up to 75% off clearance
- Target – Car Seat Trade-In Event (ends 4/27); BOGO 25% off select skincare products; up to 40% off indoor furniture; up to 20% off laptops & printers
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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- If you’re a working parent of an infant with low sleep needs, how do you function at work when you’re in the throes of baby’s sleep regression?
- Should I cut my childcare down to 12 hours a month if I work from home?
- Will my baby have speech delays if we raise her bilingual?
- Has anyone given birth in a teaching hospital?
- My child eats everything, and my friends’ kids do not – how should I handle? In general, what is the best way to handle when your child has some skill/ability and your friend’s child doesn’t have that skill/ability?
- ADHD moms, give me your tips to help with things like behavior in the classroom, attention to detail, etc?
- I think I suffer from mom rage…
- My husband and kids are gone this weekend – how should I enjoy my free time?
- I’m struggling to be compassionate with a SAHM friend who complains she doesn’t have enough hours of childcare.
- If you exclusively formula fed, what tips do you have for in the hospital and coming home?
- Could I take my 4-yo and 8-yo on a 7-8 day trip to Paris, Lyon, and Madrid?
Anon says
We’re finally getting around to getting married and have to make some decisions about our family name/my name. Our infant daughter has his last name. In the past I’ve been 1000% certain about keeping my name, but now I’m pondering if I want to add his last name as a second middle name. We’ve referred to our family as both the HisLastNames and the HisLastName MyLastNames. I feel strongly about keeping my identity/name, but didn’t feel the need to pass it along to our children.
If you kept your last name, what is your “team” name? Do you use your partner’s name socially? Would it be useful at all in the future to tuck my daughter’s name into my name or is that just a lot of work for nothing?
Anon says
Kind of in the same boat. Kept my last name and baby has husbands last name. I’m thinking of hyphenating to feel more cohesive by the time he starts kindergarten for ease of school communication, travel, etc. Socially we’re known by husbands last name but I value being known by my name at work.
Anonymous says
Omg I hate it. Keep your name. Use your name. It is fine. You do not need to be cohesive. If he wants cohesion then hyphenate everyone.
Lily says
+1.
Anon says
I kept my name. My husband didn’t feel strongly about me changing my name (he’s very practical and thought it was unnecessary work). Kid has husbands name (not into hyphenation). Never had an issue traveling (have flown only domestically), doctors, school etc. We use husbands name socially. Our return address stamps do say both of our names “ie, Smith & Owens family”. When we get wedding invitations people usually address them with both our full names – but I’m not offended if we get things address to just my husbands name. My kid is too young to have friends call me anything, but expect I’ll go by “Mrs (Childs last name)” (I’m a doctor but do not expect anyone outside of work to call me Dr my last name!).
Anonymous says
Why though? What is hard about actually using your name? Call me Ms. Maiden, or call me Jenny.
Anonymous says
I just think that if you keep your name, and you should, keep it!! Using his name socially Judy means you haven’t kept your. You are not an NHL franchise you do not need a team name.
GCA says
I kept my last name because I’d been using it professionally for several years by the time we got married. (Also, I’m lazy.) I have a short Asian-origin name and DH has a longer, slightly unusual Italian-origin name. Our kids go by the latter.
On school communication – daycare communication could get it straight, but public-school communication sometimes doesn’t. I truly don’t blame them, they have way more kids and families to deal with, but…I am just a *tiny* bit salty that the 1st grade teacher consistently misspells my four-letter last name but not DH’s which is twice as long. I don’t really care/ mind if the kids’ friends call me Mrs [Hislastname] though, they’re just being polite.
Anonymous says
I kept my name, our kid has my last name as a middle name. We sometimes socially go by the Husbands or the Husband family, but I list our name on our holiday cards as the Husband Wife family. I think one year I did the Husband / Wife family. It’s whatever. I like that our kid has my name as part of his, but it hasn’t really ever come up. And I’ve never needed to prove I was his mom.
Anonymous says
I wish that families with multiple last names would announce their “team name” preference in some way and be consistent about it. It’s very hard to avoid offending people when you don’t know what they want to be called.
Anonymous says
Or. You stop calling them by a team name because it’s totally unnecessary!!!
Anonymous says
So you want people to list all your family’s first names whenever they refer to you? As in, we are inviting the Joneses, the Smith-Changs, and John, Jane, Timmy, Sally, and Sammy? That is kind of high-maintenance of the last family on that list.
Anonymous says
Yup. Or, if respecting the fact that we don’t share a last name is such a burden for you, you can just not invite us. I’d rather not be friends.
Anonymous says
Yeah, actually you sound exhaustingly self-righteous so I won’t invite you.
Anonymous says
Oooh, let me guess. Are you also gluten-free vegans for no medical reason?
Anon says
It IS consistently announced by social media and email acounts, school parent lists, etc: if both adults use different last names, literally no family will get upset being called the Smith Jones family because they are publicly presenting themselves as Smiths and Jones. If both adults use the same last name on those accounts, they are the Johnson family. It seems like you’re making this harder than it is when it is perfectly clear?
Anonymous says
No, there are absolutely high-maintenance people who get mad when you guess and call them the Smith Jones family. See above.
anon says
It’s not always that clear. I know my daughter’s friend is named Samantha Jones. At a PTA event, I meet her mom Julie and dad Bob. We visit socially at school events and the playground; the kids become good friends. At the holidays I want to send them a card. I have no idea what Julie’s last name is. Zero. (Our school directory is parent run and comes out sometime in the spring, if it gets done at all.) Does Julie get upset if I address the card to Julie, Bob and Samantha Jones if Julie’s last name is Smith? Do I really need to text her to ask her what her name is before sending a card?
Anonymous says
No princess just send it to Julie Bob and Sam. It’s fine.
DLC says
I kept my last name. We go by His Last My Last Family. But I don’t get offended or annoyed at receiving mail or what not addressed to just His Last. I would assume that they don’t know and are making their best guess. Having said that, I have had the angst of not knowing how to address Christmas cards, and not wanting to be wrong. Which leads me to think that perhaps the consternation is generally more on the part of the sender not the receiver.
One thing that is annoying, though is when a child legally has both last names and is consistently addressed with only one, usually the father’s.
anon says
Dude, what’s with the hostile princess comment? Not necessary.
Anonymous says
LOL, DH and I don’t even agree on cheering for the same actual teams, why should we have to come up with a separate name for ourselves. Like the Fighting Blue Pandas or something? My social media accounts, my firm bio, city property records, and local 10k results all have my full name. Same thing for DH. I don’t now how anyone can’t figure out what we want to be called.
Anonymous says
If I send a potluck invitation to the Hisname family or the Yourname family or the Hisname-Yourname family or the Yourname-Hisname family you are bound to get your knickers in a knot. That’s the trouble.
Anonymous says
What is hard about Suzie, Steve, and the kids
Anonymous says
Lol, if you think I will, then why bother inviting me? I’m only going to be upset if you actually know our names and refuse to use them correctly. It’s the same thing as if my name was Sally Green and for 10 years you’ve been insisting on calling me Susie. Why does it make any difference if it’s a last name vs first name?
If you make an honest mistake because we’ve just met or we haven’t but our kids/spouses/pet iguanas are BFFs, I’ll just say, “Hey, my name is actually Sally, and we’d love to come, what can we bring?”
Anonymous says
Exactly, 11:47. This is how to handle it like an adult. I do agonize over addressing cards and invitations sometimes, but I make a good faith effort at checking whatever directories are at my disposal and I’ve never had anyone be ungracious if I make a mistake. And if I do, I just say “Oh I’m so sorry, I’ll update my address book!” and we all move on.
Anonymous says
We don’t have a team name. I kept my name, and toddler kiddo has my last as a middle name. Probably 95% of my married friends kept their last names, and it’s incredibly common in our area, so I’m not worried about school, etc. There are a lot of two last name families at daycare, and they have no issues there. We haven’t tried traveling by plane, because Covid. We did have a couple trips pre-kid where one of us would get a random upgrade on a flight, and the gate agent would say something like, “Oh, I didn’t realize you were traveling together because you have different last names,” so I’m anticipating that we’ll run into some issues once we do get on a plane again. The only person who still insists on addressing envelopes to “The HisLastName Family” is my very conservative SIL who’s always made it clear that she doesn’t like me.
Cb says
My FIL sent a check and was annoyed when the bank rejected it, because he used my husband’s pre-marriage surname. Apparently 8 years into marriage, he hadn’t realised that my husband actually changed his name.
Tempted to return the cards to Mr and Mrs A WRONGNAME as unknown address, there is no Mrs in our house.
Anonymous says
When I had children I lost my own name and became “Mrs. Lastname” to the school and “Miss Kid’s Mom” to children. Resistance is futile.
Anonymous says
I threaten to return the cards all the time, but my SIL wouldn’t get it. She’d just blame USPS.
Cb says
We have a team name, but we both changed our name, and our son has both names. It is an absurd name, colour + animal (think Black Fox) which makes it feel even more like a mascot. I was neutral, and would happily have kept each of our pre-marriage names but my husband wanted the same name and was happy to change his. His family is HORRIFIED and almost refuses to use it, which is annoying.
Piper Dreamer says
As non-feminist as this may sound, my maiden name is ethnic and sounds like/is a slang for p3n1s… So I changed to my husband’s vanilla name immediately after marriage. I may be imagining it but I tend to think that in some way contributes to my improved interview to offer ratio…
Anonymous says
Why is it any more feminist to keep your father’s name than to take your husband’s, especially when your husband’s works better for you?
Boston Legal Eagle says
Feminism is about choice right? So women should be able to choose whether to keep their original names or take their husbands’ names or even pick a third name altogether. Men should also. FWIW I did the same as Piper Dreamer and switched my ethnic last name to my husband’s easy name upon marriage. It has made everything easier in terms of telling people my name. That’s probably more against multiculturalism than against feminism, but I did what made life easier for me. I don’t think anyone around where I live is surprised or care if mom and dad have different last names.
Anonymous says
Exactly–it’s not antifeminist of Piper Dreamer to make her own choice.
Anonymous says
Nope feminism is not about choice read a book.
Anonymous says
So feminism is about doing exactly what you say it is?
Anonymous says
Feminism is about equality.
Anonymous says
Why do men own their names at their birth but for women it is always their father’s name?
Anonymous says
Men don’t own their names any more than women do, but to pretend that either one’s name didn’t come from the parent who gave it to them is fiction. I shouldn’t be expected to relive the trauma of my childhood every time I write my name just because you think it’s the feminist thing to do. My husband kept his dad’s last name because he likes his dad and wants to maintain the connection.
Aunt Jamesina says
I’m sorry that you went through that trauma. I wish more men felt empowered to change their last name in the same circumstance. Anonymous at 10:29 didn’t say she thought you had to keep your name, simply stated that you only ever hear the “but it’s your father’s last name” argument when we’re speaking about women, not men.
Aunt Jamesina says
Why is it that we consider a woman’s last name to belong to either be her father’s or her husband? We don’t do this to men. I’m not going to just pick a new last name out of thin air because the one I was given “belongs” to my dad. It also belongs to me! My last name is both a part of my identity tying me to my family AND my own, personal name that I identify by.
Aunt Jamesina says
Ugh, sorry for the lack of editing. I blame sleep deprivation.
anon says
I kept my last name and that’s what we gave to the kids. My wife added my name to hers so she has a double-barreled last name. The kids have my wife’s original last name as one of their middle names. We use my-last most of the time’ my wife only uses her full last name on official paperwork, prescriptions, etc.
For us, because we’re a non-traditional family we felt it was important to have a last name that linked all of us together. That being said, both my wife and I grew up with a different last name from our mothers and it was never an issue.
Bette says
This is what we did too except our kids only have one middle name – my wife’s last name.
We go by the Wife1-Wife2 Family. And our kids are named Sally Wife1 Wife2 and Joe Wife1 Wife 2.
It works extremely well for us as a family unit and has caused zero issues.
NLD in NYC says
I kept both when I got married. I liked the idea of having a family name (Team “Rodriguez!”), but I also love my maiden name. My husband is also Latino (I’m Black) so “Jane Rodriguez” didn’t feel right. Being Latino, my husband is used to having two last names (in Spain and in most Latin American countries, everyone legally has two last names). So I’m Jane Doe Rodriguez :). My real name rolls of the tongue, but written it’s a lot. Never had a problem traveling internationally; both names are on my passport and Driver’s license. Socially, most people call me “Jane Rodriguez,” but it’s not a big deal to me. The way I see it, at the end of the day it’s still some man’s name. Either my dad’s father or my husband’s father’s last name.
Anonymous says
That’s why I took my husband’s name. I like his father better than mine.
anonM says
Thank you for pointing this out! You can choose not to change your last name or to change it, whatever, but when people act like it is inherently SO confusing to have two last names I want to roll my eyes. Many people have figured it out. My kids have my (long, hard to spell) last name as one of their middle names. I did not take his name at all. My kids know their full names even if we use DH’s last name (think Jones) for most things/labeling items, etc.
To OP, I’d hesitate to add his last name to your if you want anyone to ever use your last name. I’ve kept my maiden name and family on both sides still address things to Ms. HisLastName.
Anon says
I’m going to push back on this: “at the end of the day it’s still some man’s name.”
Wrong. It’s MY name. It’s the name attached to my degrees, my law license, my professional reputation, my national publications, my TV and radio interviews. It could have been picked out of a random name generator and I would still have kept it, because it’s MY name. Maybe if you’re 20, it feels like your father’s name; for those of us who were quite established before getting married, that dog doesn’t hunt.
TheElms says
I kept my maiden name. It is my name and very much a part of who I am. My kids have /will have my husband’s last name and that doesn’t bother me at all. I couldn’t keep my middle name and take my husbands last name or hypenate because the resulting initial combination is an abbreviation that would be inappropriate and the words run together in an unflattering way. Sometimes we jokingly call ourselves the Team unflattering name, but wouldn’t do so in public. I have picked middle names for my kids that are family names from my side of the family, so kiddos get / will get the connection to my family that way. I think if the names had worked I would have liked to hypenate kids last names as my last name-husband’s last name, but it really just doesn’t work at all.
Pogo says
I’ve seen all combinations and it really doesn’t matter to me. Do what you want, it’s your name! I took husband’s because it was more unique.
AwayEmily says
We’re all mixed together and love it. I kept my last name. My son has my last name and my husband’s as his middle name. My daughter has my husband’s last name and mine as her middle. We’ve never had issues so far across two daycares and public school. I really like that both our kids have both our names (albeit in different orders).
Anonymous says
I kept my name, our son has my husband’s last name, and we put “mylast + hislast” on our christmas card return address labels. (It would not occur to me to be offended if someone switched up the order. Actually I probably do sometimes. It isn’t a hyphenated name and there’s no pecking order). Some of his relatives/friends address mail to me with his last name sometimes, but I assume it is because they don’t know that I didn’t change my name (he’s from the deeeeep South) and I really don’t care. If he had really wanted me to change my name, I probably would have, but he didn’t care. It is very, very common in our area and you just don’t make assumptions about individual family members’ last names – you ask for clarification when needed.
I’m not sure what the point of a second middle name would be – who would ever see it? But if it is meaningful to you, do it!
Lily says
I kept my name and my husband kept his. Our kids’ last name is mylastname-his lastname and I love it.
Sorry, but taking your husbands last name and giving your kids his last name “just because” it’s always been done that way or so people don’t get confused (which has never ever happened for us) is anti-feminist. Just own it. You can still be a feminist. But own it when you give into patriarchal norms!
Anonymous says
Yup this. Not every choice is feminist.
Alanna of Trebond says
Same thing that we did. (We kept names; kiddo’s name is hyphenated). Kiddo’s name is LONG.
Aunt Jamesina says
Neither of us changed our last names, and we gave our daughter mine. Our deal– which we discussed before marriage– was that the first kid would get the last name of the parent of the same sex, and the second kid would get the other parent’s last name. Not at all conventional, but it works for us! Our informal “team” name used by our friends and family is a mashup of both of our last names (like Johnson and Smith become Smithson). We also share our last initial, so it’s nice having that in common.
Aunt Jamesina says
And I’ll say that our “team” name is just for fun and I don’t care at all if people call us the Smith-Jones or Jones-Smiths or whatever (although I do get annoyed that I always get things addressed to me using my husband’s last name, but it rarely ever occurs the other way around!).
Anon says
I kept my name and I don’t really know what our team name is, I answer to whatever anyone calls us. If I’m addressing an envelope I usually do MyLast/HisLast or sometimes MyFirst & HisFirst. Kids have my last name as the middle and his last as their last. I honestly wouldn’t bother legally changing your name, it’s ok to socially go by whatever you want. I’m not sure there’s any real benefit to having a second middle name be official as opposed to just filling out your preferred name on the kids’ forms. No one will be checking your true legal name presumably and these days it’s common not to share a last name.
anon says
I also got married after my kid was born. I kept my last name, kid has dad’s last name. He has half-siblings and they have that last name too, and I think it is nice for them that he has their same last name.
Like some others here, we don’t have a “team” name. Our Christmas cards are return addressed mylast+hislast. The fact that I have a different last name from the kids has never been an issue, and we’ve flown many times. I think that the challenges of multiple family last names are really oversold – maybe that was true in the past, but not really now.
Spirograph says
I’m not sure if it’s regional or generational or what, but in contrast to how I grew up addressing adults, I don’t think *anyone* other than a telemarketer has ever called me Mrs. Lastname, at least not to my face. Neighborhood kids address me as Ms Firstname, or [Kid’s name]’s Mom, and that’s how my kids address their friends’ parents, too.
Daycare teachers all went by Mr./Ms. Firstname. Only one of my kids has an elementary teacher who goes by Mrs. Lastname, the others all go by Ms. Firstname. My son’s K teacher doesn’t even insist on the Ms, but my son, bless him, knows better than to call a woman his grandmother’s age just plain “Firstname.”
I took my husband’s name, since I wasn’t attached to my own, I was young, and didn’t have a professional reputation. I’m not sure I’d make the same choice today. I don’t think you need to make a thing out of it. You can answer to Ms. child’s-last-name but use your own name among adults, or you can correct the kid. Or you can be Ms. First name. Parents with different last names from their children are VERY common in my area, and no one is confused by it. I got some Xmas cards this year that said “love from the lastname-lastname” family, even though none actually hyphenate their names. So I guess that’s one way to do a team name? On an as-needed basis. I don’t know when you need it other than Christmas cards…
BeenThatGuy says
That’s how my holiday cards are sent out: Love from the Lastname-Lastname-Lastname Family. Myself, my son and my boyfriend all have different last names. We receive holiday cards with all sorts of variations of our last names and/or first names. If anyone spends a second stressing over addressing something to us, I would say “bless your heart” to those folks. It’s not that serious.
MBRec says
I double barreled, no hyphen, my last name and I only use my maiden name professionally. My child has my spouses last name. I wasn’t going to bother taking my spouses, but we are a mixed-race couple and my child does not look like me so I have the same last name as her for the times it will be needed. I’ve found it to be a good, albeit funky and confusing for some people, compromise. My partner was willing to double barrel as well, but we are just lazy? And his last name is better and our daughter has his.
Anonymous says
Kept my name. We don’t see the need for a “team” name but will sometimes use the Smith Jones Family if needed. My kids have my spouse’s last name with my last names (plural ha) as middle names.
My mom didn’t change her name either so that was always the norm for me.
Anonymous says
When we got married, neither my husband nor I were interested in changing our names. My kids both have my last name as a second middle and my husband’s last name as their last name. We do the Smith/Jones Family as a “team” name (or like, our return address stamp), and probably sign our first names more often than saying “The ___ Family.”
Now, after 10 years and 2 kids, we would prefer that we all had the last name Smith Jones, so all 4 of us with 2 last names, all the same. Realistically we won’t go through the effort to change everything, though.
Anon says
Keep your name. You don’t need a “team” name, you’re already a family.
Momofthree says
I’ll echo that you should do whatever works for you. As you can see from the above responses, everyone is doing different things.
I kept my last name (I feel strongly like it’s part of my identity and i had no desire to deal with the hassle of changing my name and it is a hassle in Dc!). My kids go by my husbands last name but one of them has a family name for a middle. I also have no problem going by my husbands last name and just say the “husbands last name”s when we send out cards.
For addressing, I prefer using people’s first names (sure it’s a pain when I have to update addresses when someone has a kid, but it give me a chance to reflect on the family and our relationship). If I don’t know the family members I just address it to the person I know in the family. I’ve never been offended by what I get called. I also grew up with a mother who had a different last name and made a big deal about being recognized as such. It never felt worth the stress or headache although I understand her reasons for doing it. Now, to quote a classic, I “Let It Go”
Anon says
TBH, the whole “team name” thing gets under my skin. I firmly believe that we are a team, but “team names” are for professional sports. I have my name, he has his name, and we’re the Smith/Doe Family. I have no reason to use my husband’s name “socially,” because it’s 2022 and anyone who can’t figure out why a woman who married at almost-40 kept her name isn’t someone whose opinion much matters to me.
anon says
I kept my name, and our child has a hyphenated combination of both of our names (so if I’m Jones, DH is Smith, our child is Jones-Smith). We sign holiday cards “The Smith Jones family.” Older relatives send things to Mr. & Mrs. Smith and it used to bother me but I ignore it as I think they’re just set in their ways and not malicious. Some other relatives seem to think I hyphenated and address things to me as Jane Smith-Jones; this doesn’t bother me either.
EDAnon says
I changed my name and so did my husband. He took my maiden for his middle (as did I), so we are:
Jane Smith Ramon
Scott Smith Ramon
I like it and it works for us. I didn’t have any strong affinity for my maiden (or middle) name and his last name came with strong, unconventional familial ties and represented more than just a name passed on. None of our kids have Smith in their names.
As an aside, my in-laws insist on addressing everything to my husband in his FULL previous name (ex. Scott Arthur Ramon), which super ticks me off.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Pfizer is expected to submit an application for their vaccine for the under 5 set! Looks like they would start with the two dose regimen, and then a third shot once the safety data is in. We may have a vaccine for them very soon after all.
Anon says
A vaccine that doesn’t work at all… I get that it might offer some protection against severe illness and it’s probably the right call to authorize two doses now, but I’m just worried about what will happen if the booster fails, which isn’t beyond the realm of possibility.
Anon says
yes, i agree. i 100% plan on vaccinating my two 3 year olds, but i think this plan sounds dumb. i get the rationale of getting started with the shots since it will take about 11 weeks for full immunity with 3 shots, but what if the 3rd isnt approved and they just got 2 shots for nothing and then need a higher dose which they will have to wait to get. i also think this is going to significantly undermine public confidence in the vaccine. if the rumors are true that it does work for the six month -2 crowd, then just authorize it for that crowd! that is still a lot of kids. it is my understanding that in the 2-5 crowd there wasn’t enough of an immune response from 2 shots, so while i don’t think it will hurt my kids, it also feels like i might as well be injecting them with saline
Anonymous says
The harm will come if the third dose of Pfizer doesn’t produce a strong immune response and parents are unable to have their children revaccinated with a more effective vaccine because they were already vaccinated.
Anon says
This. This is why my heart soared to the ceiling on the headlines and crashed into the stone cold floor this morning. Me not wanting to give my kid an ineffective vaccine at the risk of jeopardizing getting an effective one if the 3rd dose fails will put in even more of a forgotten zone than mom to a kiddo under 5. As it is my friends and colleagues are constantly like “what do you mean you’re not comfortable” and I have to remind them time and time again that unlike their over 5 kids, my kid isn’t vaccinated yet. And now I’ll be in a grey zone where technically my kid could get vaccinated but I’m choosing to wait to make sure it’s effective? I am also deeply uncomfortable with FDA pushing Pfizer to submit even though Pfizer doesn’t won’t have all of the data before March; it makes it feel like it is a rescue for poll numbers rather than “based on the science”.
Anonymous says
“Doesn’t work at all”
Sure Jan.
Anon says
I mean, I’m literally quoting Pfizer’s press release that it didn’t generate an immune response in 2-4 year olds. I’m the most pro-vaccine person ever. Everyone in our family got our vaccines and boosters ASAP. But I want my kid to have actual protection, and I would have real concerns about vaccinating a kid (especially one turning 5 in the next few months) with a vaccine that has been shown not to generate an immune response. Not because I think it’s harmful, it’s not, but because I want them to actually get a dosage that’s going to generate an immune response and you can’t get your kid an unlimited number of vaccines. If I could vaccinate them with this now, and then get the bigger dose after their fifth birthday, sure, I’d do that. But I can’t. Getting this vaccine now will prevent you from getting a much more effective vaccine later, so it’s a pretty reasonable choice to wait if you have a kid close to the cutoff.
Walnut says
Anonymous @ 9:10. This is a really frustrating minimization of legit parent concern.
Anonymous says
I think anonymous at 9:10 is one of those same posters who was trying to gaslight people into thinking that J&J was just as good as the mRNA vaccines.
Anon says
You people are all insufferable.
Anonymous says
The cynic in me says that Pfizer is making this move so that kids <5 have started their 3-dose regimen before Moderna submits their application.
However, as the parent of a kiddo <2, I really hope this works. I'm feeling a lot like Charlie Brown with Lucy holding the football.
Anonymous says
Please don’t make up nonsense
Anonymous says
Clearly you’re not familiar with how the FDA and industry work.
Anon says
I don’t think that’s cynical at all. Moderna was bizarrely delayed from January to March by the FDA asking for a second trial expansion, and I think it was pretty clearly done to give Pfizer the chance to get their application in first. It’s weird how much the FDA is in bed with Pfizer.
Piper Dreamer says
Agreed that 2-4 looks iffy… I plan to get my infant vaccinated and wait until my older one turns 5 in the summer to get him vaccinated… At least there is light at the end of the tunnel!?
Anonymous says
Congrats on being anti vax
Anonymous says
Wanting an effective vaccine is the opposite of being antivax.
Anon says
Wanting to wait so you can get a vaccine that actually works is the opposite of anti-vax.
Walnut says
If questioning the utility of an ineffective vax makes me anti vax, then you’ve made an enemy of the wrong group of people.
anonn says
This is what I’m thinking too. I have a 98% kid turning 5 in July and a one year old. Of course, I’ll see what our doc says too.
Cb says
I’m in the UK where vaccines are still 11+ (and honestly, seem unlikely to be extended) but we got a letter today saying that my son will be eligible as soon as he turns 5 as I’m immunocompromised.
Anon says
Oh that’s good news, I’m happy for you all!
Cb says
I know, my husband just sent me a photo of the letter. Only 6 more months!
Anon says
I…don’t understand why the FDA would push this through but not approve Moderna. I’m very pro-vaccine and have been anxiously awaiting approval for the under-5s, but if I had a kid turning 5 soon I’d be very tempted to just wait and give them the dose we know works.
Anon says
Yeah. I have a large 4.5 year old. I would get her the 5-11 dose today if i could. Moderna little kids dose also seems fine. But I really don’t want to give her a Pfizer dosage that didn’t work on 2 year olds. It’s annoying but I expect we’ll be waiting until her fifth birthday since it doesn’t seem like the FDA will ever approve Moderna for this age group (it’s not even approved for 12-17 yet). They should just approve it for 0-2, the age group in which it actually worked.
Anonymous says
The dosage isn’t about size, it’s about the maturity of the immune system.
Anon says
It’s about both, actually. One of the reasons vaccine cause more side effects but are generally more effective in women than men is that we get the same dose but we weigh less on average. But even if you believe size is irrelevant, a 4 year old is immunologically much closer to a 5 year old than to an infant, so that’s even more of a reason to wait and get the larger dose, especially knowing the smaller dose wasn’t effective in the 2-4 age group.
Anonymoyus says
Do you know how that works for kids on the cusp? Like for a kid turning 5 on April 1, say they can get the 2-4 doses at age 4 on March 1, March 22, and April 26 (when they’re already 5). Is that likely to be sufficient for their immune system given how close they are to 5/how developed their immune system is or are they better off waiting to get the 5+ dose on April 1 and April 22 (and then a booster in Setp)?
My entire friends group has kids turning 5 between Dec 2021 and June 2022, so this is a topic we ponder a lot!
Boston Legal Eagle says
^ If I had a kid turning 5 in the next few months, I’d probably wait for them to get the 5-11 year old dose. But my younger kid will not be 5 until Oct. 2023, so I’m inclined to give him whatever is approved now, and then supplement with boosters as needed.
Anon says
My pediatrician told me there are no significant immunological changes between 4 and 5. The big childhood changes to the immune system happen in the first two years of life and around puberty. Because of the puberty issue, I would have far more hesitation about giving an 11 year old a dose designed for teenagers than I would about giving a 4 year old a dose designed for elementary schoolers.
Anon says
That’s exciting but I think I may wait to see if Moderna is approved before we get Pfizer for my two year old. Having just recovered from a not mild case of Covid with three Pfizer shots, I wish I had gotten Moderna because it’s a bit more effective. We should have some immunity to get us through until then. If I had a baby it’d be more exciting since there’s a better immune response in under 2’s.
Anonymous says
For adults the Pfizer v. Moderna effectiveness seems to be a crapshoot that really depends on how the virus evolves. With Delta and earlier, Pfizer was more effective. Now the Modern boosters seem more effective against omicron.
For the little kid vaccine there is clearly a dosage problem with Pfizer, so the choice seems more clearcut.
Anon says
No, Moderna was more effective against Delta and Alpha too. Moderna is generally considered a higher dose (I know it’s hard to compare because they’re different molecules, but the expert consensus is Moderna is a bigger dose) and that has translated to higher antibody levels and better effectiveness against every variant. It had more side effects too. That said, for an adult or a kid under 2 I would absolutely take first available mRNA vaccine, they’re both great. It’s only the dosage problem in 2-4 year olds that gives me pause about Pfizer.
Anon says
Completely agree with this.
Anonymous says
So caveat that I’m not an insider, but I have followed this pretty closely. Kids in the Pfizer trial are getting their third doses week and next week. This won’t be FDA approved for at least 4-6 weeks. There should be early antibody readouts on those kids by then. My theory is that the FDA won’t approve it until Pfizer tells them they’re seeing good antibody levels with the third dose. The third dose probably won’t be officially approved for another couple months, because they need to wait for safety data, but there won’t be any concern about “what if you give kids two doses and then the booster trial fails” because they’ll already know it worked by then. I believe this is why they didn’t just approve the two doses back in December, and waited until now, when third doses are already in progress.
Anonymous says
So the vaccine would be approved on the basis of the short-term immune response and there will be no way to know how durable the protection is?
Anonymous says
Well, that was true for all the vaccines for all age groups. That’s nothing new.
Piper Dreamer says
TTC third timing? Senior associate in biglaw and am lateralling in a month. I have 3-4 years before the partnership decision. I have 2 and my younger one is 10 months old. I am in my early 30s but there are some family fertility issues (age related) that I want to avoid. Would you TTC after you make partner or would you TTC 2 years before (with the goal to have 1 year in the new job and 1 year before partnership)?
Anonymous says
I would wait until after making partner. I have 3 and while we adore them and it was the right choice, going from 2-3 was a much bigger disruption than I expected. Grandparents can’t handle 3 in the same way and get overwhelmed more easily. I feel like I am never alone because there is constantly a kid touching me. Two feels like a vacation in comparison. Sometimes grandparents watch just the baby so DH and I can each take a kid for one on one time.
Anon says
+1 on 2-3 really being a lot harder – you’re never “off”
Not sure how that should weigh into your timing. And I love my third and even have a fourth!
Spirograph says
+1 to this description of being a mom of 3. I am rarely alone, and when we send one kid at a time to grandma’s house in the summer and only have two at home, it is like a vacation. And my youngest is 5! I’m not a lawyer, but if partner is important to you, I’d be very realistic about what kind of help you’ll need to outsource to keep professional momentum through an infant/toddler plus two older kids and plan for that.
For me personally, I timed my kids based on when DH and I felt ready physically and mentally / emotionally and our desired spacing. I had a very clear idea of what I wanted our family to look like, and we just worked our careers around that. Babies were born when we were late 20s/early 30s and we’re both doing very well professionally… but neither of us has a career with defined milestones like tenure, partner, etc.
Anonymous says
I wouldn’t. At all. Pre making partner youll trash your chances. Post unless you have a massive book you’ll flail.
NYCer says
Personally, I would not wait to have kids until a partnership decision that may (or may not) happen in 3-4 years. What if it is actually 5 more years until partnership decision? Or what if it ends up not happening at all? I would have the third kid when you want to have the third kid and let the work chips fall as they may.
Anon says
This. As someone who is still TTC kiddo no. 2 (going on 3 years and two miscarriages) and as a 10th year I had to be asked to be added to the partnership consideration list (even though everyone assures me I am in the pipeline) and have been told there are too many people “ahead of you in the pipeline” for it to be this year. So partnership is really looking like an 11-12 year track (when I had my first kid it was 8-10 years) and I still don’t have a second kid. On the flip side, we are losing senior women left and right so at least I am getting paid a boatload of money to wait my turn. Ready to burn down the patriarchy today, but maybe tomorrow will be better.
Anonymous says
+1. There’s never going to be a perfect time.
TheElms says
From watching close friends make partner and then have little kids, I think junior partner is the absolute worst time to have kids. So much is expected of junior partners today between maintaining high billable hours, developing business, and taking on firm administrative responsibilities. I’d lateral, get a solid foundation of work under you (6 months if you really hit the ground running to a year) and then start TTC.
Anon says
+1
Alanna of Trebond says
I totally disagree. So much easier to have a kid as a junior partner than as a senior associate. Easier to be pregnant too.
Anon says
My daycare is floating the idea of ending masking for kids, and I am having a hard time deciding what to think about it. We had 5 days in January that all my kids attended daycare . . . but nobody in my family has actually had covid.
At this point, does it matter if kids mask, when they’re unmasked for basically half the day anyway (eating, napping, although they are spread out). What’s the endgame? I feel like statistically the disease isn’t as bad as the ‘prevention’/quarantines. (I don’t feel like other daycare parents care anymore based on recent center case counts)
16% of teachers are ‘exempt’ from vaccination, and I will get my kids vaccinated as soon as possible.
Anonymous says
The only reason I care about masking in our daycare is that it shortens the required “quarantine” time after there is a covid exposure in a classroom. My daughters class used to close for a full 14+ days when masking was optional for her age. Now that masking is “required” they only quarantine for 5 days. I do not believe the science supports this at all because even with the masks required, the kids get in each other’s faces and the masks fall down and they are taken off for eating and napping. In other words, I don’t think the masks make much difference for her class (just turned 3 year-olds). I’m a proponent of a short 3-4 days away and then PCR test and return for covid exposures, but my area health department has categorically rejected this idea.
Anonymous says
I’m pro-masks in daycare because it shortens exposure quarantines to 5 days.
OP says
Our quarantines are still 10 day class closures (masked and unmasked classrooms – under 2s are unmasked), no test to stay, no 90-day quarantine exemption window for kids who recently had covid, no vaccinated teacher exemptions. If we got a 5 day quarantine window with masks, or if you mask you can test to stay I’d be all about it, but right now it seems like all sticks and no carrots.
Anon says
with this added knowledge I would want to keep masks and change the quarantine policies. i realize the CDC has by no means been perfect throughout this whole pandemic, but the general advice is still for everyone to mask.
Anonymous says
I don’t know how to feel about it either. All the photos we get from daycare have at least one kid with their mask below their nose, so it’s probably not doing a lot in terms of prevention. But it’s good practice I guess. All our teachers are vaxxed, but I’d still like to protect them in case they have vulnerable family members, etc. I dunno! I’m tired of doing all of these risk calculations. Ultimately, we’ll probably just make our kid mask when required, and not when it’s not.
Anon says
that is kind of you to think about protecting those with vulnerable family members. while i am fortunately not one of those people, most of society seems to have forgotten about that, and i recently met a mom with an immunocompromised 2 year old whose doctors told the parents to keep the 5 year old from school during the Omicron surge and hearing the 5 year old tell me how she is still having fun on winter break with her mom, but misses her friends because she can’t see them, was heartbreaking.
Anonymous says
This is the result of our “every man for himself” approach to public health. One immunocompromised family member = the end of normal life for the rest of the family, forever.
Anonymous says
I don’t fully understand these anecdotes. Honest question: If this is the case, why weren’t these families masking pre-pandemic during flu season, etc?
Anon says
i’m the poster at 9:47 and in this case, the immunocompromised child was born in January 2020, so they did not yet realize the child was immunocompromised the second it was born due to the condition the child has so this is new territory for them.
Anonymous says
Covid has a much higher fatality rate for truly vulnerable people (80+ year olds, severely immunocompromised people) than the flu. The vaccines do not seem to produce very much protection for these truly vulnerable groups, which is so disappointing. We’ve lost two elderly people in my extended family to Covid, one who was fully vaccinated (the other died before the vaccine was available). We have never had a family member die of the flu.
Anonymous says
This is nonsense whataboutism. First off, there were plenty of people who were already masking on planes etc. before Covid. Second, how do you know what these families would have done during a flu pandemic as opposed to a regular flu season? Third, why is it so hard for you to understand that masking the infectious person is much more effective than only masking the person who is trying to avoid infection?
Anon says
well where i live they have different quarantine rules for the masked classes (age 3+) and the unmasked ones so it would make a huge difference in what counts as an exposure at our preschool. all the unmasked classes are fully shutdown if someone tests positive, while the masked classes don’t quarantine all the kids. are the hospitals full where you live? idk what the end game is, but if hospitals are full that is a problem. will the teachers still mask? are they ending the quarantines as well? depending on the rules at your school, i’d want to keep the masks but perhaps adjust what counts as a ‘close contact’ for quarantine purposes
Anonymous says
I have a kid in a public school that just made masks optional. Half of me is furious, and the other half thinks that it might not really matter because a) the kids who stopped wearing masks weren’t wearing them properly to begin with and b) those kids all have covidiot families that got Omicron over the holidays anyway. If they are already unmasked to eat and nap I don’t think wearing a mask for the rest of the day makes much difference.
Cb says
I’m obviously not in the US but my son goes to a daycare that ended bubbles 6 months ago, so 50 children of all ages are circulating freely. Teachers are masked when speaking with parents but not generally with children (unless they chose to). We haven’t had any massive outbreaks, we probably get 1 “low risk contact notification” a month. I suspect we’re 95% vaccinated though.
Obviously, our rules are very different – we stopped shutting down in response to a single positive case over the summer – but Covid is running rampant in the UK, but doesn’t seem particularly worse in a childcare setting. I’m very cautious and I’m the weirdo parent who masks their 4 year old on the bus, train, in the shop, but I feel pretty comfortable with this arrangement.
Anonymous says
Why on earth are schools and day cares thinking about ending masking in the middle of a surge? The time for that is maybe in the spring when things die down, not right now. In VA, the UVA model scenario with reduced masking now shows a second peak in February.
Anon says
I’m strongly in favor of masks for everyone, at least until everyone is vaccine eligible and has had time to complete the full series. Our school has had no in-school transmission, even in the Omicron era, and I believe it’s because the kids are masked except to eat and sleep, and they’re very distanced when they’re eating and sleeping. I know distancing alone isn’t perfect, we’ve all heard anecdotes about someone getting Covid at a church service or whatever from someone who was 100 feet away, but the combo of masks and distancing seems to be working for our school. I’m not an expert but I suspect distancing has a bigger impact with kids than adults, given kids’ smaller size and lower respiratory volume. I really see no downside to masks, they don’t faze my kid or any others’ I know. School closures and not being able to have playdates and parties is definitely doing a number on kids’ mental health, but masks are just NBD to the kids I know at this point. That said, I would be more upset about ending masking for teachers/staff than for kids. The majority of cases in our school have been in staff.
anon says
Most countries don’t require masks for young children. It’s not like they have massive Covid surges among the young while the US is immune. Your daycare is just joining the rest of the world. I’m sure it will be fine.
anon says
Is this really true? From my friends in the UK, it sounds like they have many more kids picking up covid in care/school than the masked schools here.
Anon says
Yeah, this isn’t true at all. Many other countries actually do require masks for school age kids, and those that don’t have had demonstrably higher rates of in-school transmission. There have been studies showing the same thing in the US too.
anon says
Many countries require masks for school age kids (6+). Not daycare age kids
Cb says
I think rates in under 5s are higher in the UK than the US but I (as a political scientist, not a scientist, so YMMV) suspect it’s linked to the fact that schools have stayed open for much more of the time and our testing rate is much, much higher. We went for a PCR test last week and they handed us a 7 pack of rapid tests, I was leaving the airport and they had a table of free tests, etc. In schools, there is pool testing and students are asked to test 2x a week, etc, they don’t have to, but I suspect many do. In recent months, it’s because the government doesn’t care about Covid spread.
NYCer says
I agree with this. I am sure this will be an unpopular opinion on this board, but I think once we get back to pre-Omicron levels, it is time we start having the conversation about an off road for masking young children.
Anon says
Not unpopular to me at all. I think it is time to have that discussion for all children.
Anonymous says
Right there with you.
Anonymous says
We are nowhere near back to pre-Omicron levels.
The CDC could have avoided this whole mess by setting up clear guidelines for exactly when masking in various places (schools, stores, etc.) should be required based on infection and hospitalization rates. We need an offramp, but we also need an onramp for the next variant. Sadly, we are all ditching masks prematurely and will never bring them back.
Anonymous says
It will be fine. I’m increasingly feeling like it’s time to off-ramp daycares, because it’s all just theater at preschool ages and the risk is so low. It’s about time that the US got in line with the WHO recommendations for kids.
Some prominent UCSF doctors just created this petition recommending an end to masks, among many other things:
https://www.change.org/p/gavin-newsom-post-omicron-pivot-for-california-public-schools
Anon says
+1
Anon says
Agreed.
Anonymous says
I don’t care how prominent they are. They’re not epidemiologists. Only one of them even has an MPH, and it’s from a diploma mill. I am so tired of everyone and their mother thinking they know what they’re talking about.
Signed,
An Actual Epidemiologist
Anon says
i am not an epidemiologist, but agree with you. i have no business making decisions relating to public health and honestly neither does a daycare or a school. i would never call my kid’s teacher and ask if they think the chicken pox vaccine should become optional, or how to treat cancer. though if you want my opinion – i think there should be some guidance in terms of metrics to use when figuring out masking vs. unmasking and i’m team lets all mask on airplanes forever. But again, i don’t think my opinion should really matter that much – I’d like people with actual expertise in the subject matter making the decisions
Anonymous says
This is why I think the “talk to your doctor” advice is misplaced. What does my kid’s pediatrician know about public health?
Anonymous says
Sorry, but the epidemiologists don’t exactly have a perfect track record here. Remember the whole airborne vs droplets etc nonsense? Maybe, you know, hands-on experience treating a disease should count for something.
If your attitude is indicative of your overall professions, no wonder our management of this pandemic has been such a disaster. People in health should be looking to collaborate with other specialties, not trotting out their credentials and intimidating others into silence.
Anonymous says
The actual epidemiologists on the ground doing the work were right all along. It was the political appointees fixating on droplets. Unfortunately, and this is true across all administrations in recent decades, what an agency says depends on the priorities of the party in charge and not on the actual science. It’s certainly not just Covid.
Physicians are trained to assess individual risk, not population risk.
Anonymous says
Physicians aren’t really even trained to assess individual risk that well. The standard of care is really just folklore and tradition.
Anonymous says
What is with the rush to get rid of masks in the middle of the worst surge of the entire pandemic? Sure, we need an offramp eventually, but not while we are going 80 mph.
Anon says
The risk is not “so low.” Over 1,000 kids have died of Covid in less than two years. That’s significantly more deaths/year than the flu or any other virus currently circulating widely. We have no idea what the full impacts of a Covid infection will be, but there is already evidence that something like 10% of kids suffer from long Covid, and even an asymptomatic or very mild infection can cause all sorts of harms, including brain damage, heart damage, damage to the pancreas that triggers diabetes, etc. Masks aren’t a silver bullet, but they can mitigate those harms. There was a big study recently that viral load is a big factor in how likely you are to develop long Covid, and masks greatly reduce the viral load you’re exposed to. I also just don’t really see the downside to continuing with masks. The kids I know all wear masks without complaint and genuinely couldn’t care less about it. I am 1000% in agreement with those who say that we have to end the constant closures and quarantines that are wreaking havoc on the lives of kids and working parents. But masks do not cause anywhere near that level of disruption, and actually help keep schools open. Prematurely removing masks is just going to result in more school closures and event cancellations, which is way way way more harmful for kids (and parents).
Anonymous says
Amen.
Masks work and are not overly burdensome, especially for kids just sitting in a classroom. I have successfully exercised in a mask, sung in a mask, and given presentations in a mask, all of which are significantly more difficult than having normal conversations of the type that happen in a school. But mask-refusal has become a symbol of loyalty to the death cult that the Republican party has become, so here we are.
Anon says
I am pro-mask generally, but honestly I do think it’s pointless to have toddlers wear masks. The kids can’t and do not wear them correctly all day, they still nap/eat without them, and we still got Covid. What is even the point? I’d rather stop fighting about mask wearing every morning. I feel like admitting this paints me as some antivax loon when that is not the case at all. I believe in science, take precautions, I just think masking toddlers is unnecessary theater. I’d rather follow the WHO guidance.
Anon says
I think there’s a middle ground between mandating it as young as 24 months, and following the WHO guidance which I believe is no masks before age 6? In a pre-K class of kids who are 3.5 to 5 the kids all wear masks consistently and correctly, at least based on the photos we get. Following the WHO guidance would even take masks out of public schools because many Kers are still 5 for a good chunk of the year. The fact that you got Covid despite masks doesn’t mean they don’t work. Just because something isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing. Statistically schools with mask requirements have much lower rates of in-school transmission.
Anon says
I would be fine with five and up. I didn’t say masks didn’t work, I said that they don’t work for toddlers who don’t even wear them correctly all day. Daycare centers around the country are closing classrooms all the time due to Covid cases spreading even though masking is in place.
Maybe you have some magical unicorn toddler who didn’t mind and was perfectly compliant but I don’t think that’s the case for most of us. I find it exhausting when people act like kids don’t even notice that they’re wearing them because maybe that’s your experience, but it’s definitely not everyone’s experience. I feel like I’m being gaslit.
Anon4this says
I don’t think they have to be worn correctly all the time to make a meaningful difference. My kid’s 2 year old preschool class has had 2 covid exposures during Omicron (in the class where the whole class of 10 kids was exposed once to a Covid+ masked toddler for a full morning session and once a Covid+ masked adult for a full morning session) and in each instance there has been no transmission in class. All the kids had to have a PCR tests at 5 days to return to class. Since none are vaccinated this suggests to me that the masks do work (along with ventilation).
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
So our kids daycare/school does this. The babies-pre-K building does not require kids to be masked (but all adults are), but the elementary school (K and up) does require it. I send my older son to his pre-K class in a mask everyday. I literally do not know if it does anything but it’s our way of doing our part, at least? I also posted yesterday that it’s run rampant through his class and admin just opted not to inform parents, so maybe it helped? Who knows…
Anon says
I’m not saying I have a magical unicorn kid. I’m saying in her class of 20 they all seem to wear masks reasonably correctly almost all the time, and none of the kids seems to care about it. I’m sure there are kids with special needs for whom it’s a struggle but I don’t think it’s a big deal for most neurotypical 4 year olds. I agree a kid who just turned 2 is quite different, but ending masking below age 5 covers a lot of kids who can easily be wearing masks and are more vulnerable than older kids due to lack of vaccine access.
Anon says
I’m with you for toddlers, but I’m also team “masks in school every winter forever even after covid”…we have had so much less illness and no Covid for two years and it just makes sense. Masks work when everyone wears them (in NY).
That said, this constant discussion about masks and flip flopping on mandates is adding another layer of stress to the pandemic chaos. Table this discussion, keep the masks at least through this school year, and then evaluate. My children literally forget to take their masks off half the time when they return home because they are so used to it. It’s such a small inconvenience for most of the (healthy, neurotypical, etc) population at this point.
Anonymous says
I agree with masking in school every winter forever even after COVID. In the Before Times, flu and colds were a constant burden in our house every winter. I never want to go back to living that way, and I don’t know why schools want to give up the revenue they would get from increased daily attendance.
Anon says
Agreed. CO2 monitoring/adequate ventilation/”clean air” seems like a good “forever” move too.
Anon says
I’d want to see more data on long covid before getting rid of masks. If the initial evidence that viral load relates to chances of long covid, that’s a reason in support of masks, since even if they’re worn imperfectly and the kid catches covid, they are likely still getting a lower viral load.
Anonymous says
I agree with you. The neglect of long COVID is yet another way in which the federal messaging and response has gone horribly wrong. If I hear Fauci say one more time that “the vaccines prevent hospitalization in death, which is what matters,” I will scream. For old people, yes, those are the concerns. But if we encourage vast numbers of young and middle-aged people to contract long COVID because “if you’re vaccinated it’s not that bad and we need to get back to normal life and masks are such an inconvenience,” the economic and human fallout will be immense and long-lasting.
Anon says
The data on vaccines preventing long Covid is very very promising.
Anon says
I thought there was basically one study that claimed that vaccines cut risk by one half, and a bunch of less encouraging studies (including some where risk didn’t appear to be lowered for people who contracted infections at all).
I know several people who still haven’t recovered from breakthrough infections.
Anon says
Kids at my daycare have been going without masks this entire time. I do think the momentum is moving toward dropping masks. I’ve seen articles in the WSJ and Atlantic saying masks are way less effective than originally thought, and now that the virus has mutated, there’s even more reason to rethink it.
Anon says
Mask protocols designed for droplet theory aren’t effective because droplet theory is wrong.
Masks would still play a role in a science-backed mitigation protocol for protecting against airborne contagion.
anon says
I started a 529 for my kids when I lived in a different state. Now that I’ve moved, I realized that our new state offers a tax deduction for contributions to their state 529. So, do I just open a new 529 for each kid and contribute that it while we live here, while leaving the money in the old 529s? I don’t anticipate that we’ll live in this state for more than 5 or so more years. Would I open another 529 in our future new state, too? In other words, do you all have multiple 529s for each kid or do you roll the money over into one? I have no idea how this stuff works.
Pogo says
You can definitely have multiple 529s in different states, we do. We have one from Utah I think because they had good options for funds and also our state bc of tax break.
Anon says
I don’t think you roll them over. You can have multiple 529s open at once in different states.
anon says
Different 529s in different states have different investment options and service fees. We contribute to our 529s in our state to get the tax benefit, but then after a year roll them into 529 plans in another state for the lower fees and better options. You can shop around.
Pogo says
oh and you can keep just 1 and change the name later or you can open a new one in second kid’s name. I don’t think it matters.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
Hi! I kept my last name (common South Asian surname), and it is also my kids middle name. Husband’s last name (Anglo-Saxon origin last name) is the kids’ last name and also what we use socially (e.g. holiday card, social media). I think this is pretty common and I’m not worried about any confusion. I traveled a ton solo with DS #1 pre-COVID and it was never an issue. I am called Mrs. DH’s Last Name sometimes, and it’s fine. At a recent hotel stay, DH was called Mr. My Last name, and it was fine as well. My Mom refers to our household as the “My Last Name, DH’s Last Name” household. It all works…fine.
My late parent was very proud of our last name, and their first name is my middle name (this is a cultural norm for the region of South Asia my family is from), and since they have passed, I am so glad I haven’t changed a thing.
TLDR – You do what you want!
Boston Legal Eagle says
Not vaccine related but maybe also controversial? Ha. What time do your elementary schools start and what time do your high schools start? Ours are 8:30 and 7:30, with middle school in the middle. I saw that one of our nearby-ish towns has this flipped, which I would prefer, but my kids wake up by 6am, so they would be ready by 7:30. Does anyone have an argument for having the elementary school start earlier? I would imagine that more little kids wake up earlier than high schoolers (who go to bed later too).
Anon says
I haven’t put too much thought into this, but one argument for elementary earlier could be if both parents work and need to start work by a certain time, having elementary start earlier could be a huge help. Whereas in theory your high schooler can be on their own for a little bit/get to school on their own if needed, so if you need to start work or commuting to work before their school starts you don’t have a childcare gap like you would for elementary.
(And yes, that means elementary would likely get out earlier, but if you are in this scenario you probably need afternoon care either way and it likely doesn’t make a huge difference if it starts at 2 or 3 or whatever, but finding someone to come in the morning AND get afternoon help is a whole difficult thing).
CountingUp says
High schools start early because of sports, typically. Need time to bus them to other schools for events, practices, etc. Something I didn’t consider til kids got older.
Pogo says
I thought the argument was always to start high school earlier because they have to do sports, theater, etc after school. But I always thought it should be flipped because little kids wake up earlier and high schoolers need to sleep in and are chronically sleep deprived having to get up at 6. It would be better for me if elementary started at 7:30 since that would eliminate before-school care.
Anon says
At least where I was growing up, high schools started earlier so the older kids could be home to watch younger siblings before the younger kids got home.
Anonymous says
Elementary: 7:45
Middle: 9:00
High: 8:30
Boston Legal Eagle says
Sorry all, I phrased the question poorly – was wondering whether there is an argument for having high school start earlier (which is what my district has). I’m in favor of the reverse – elementary earlier, high school later. I see the argument for sports, etc. but I’d rather have my high schooler sleep more than do more extracurriculars!
Anonymous says
My high school had a lot of extra curricular practice before school too. So it allowed time for that. We started at 9:00 but had an early bird hour at 8:00 a.m. That was when band practiced. There was also an early bird PE class. Make-up classes were held during that time, as were teacher office hours. So even though the official start time was 9:00, there was a lot of student stuff going on earlier. The library and student center opened early for studying/computer access/group work, too.
Anon says
That’s not so bad, but a lot of high schools start around 8, so extracurriculars have to start in the 7 am hour. That’s insane to me.
Anonymous says
Our high school started at 7:30 and had “zero period” courses at 6:30. It was awful.
Anon says
where we live the elementary schools start at 7:30. on the one hand, i do think little kids tend to wake up earlier and then working parents only need after care. on the flip side, elementary aged kids require more assistance actually getting ready for school than older kids. if they get out earlier there are no older kids to watch younger kids. and then for the older kids, if they do any sort of outdoor sport, in the winter it is basically dark when school ends. i think there are pros and cons to each.
Anonymous says
If my early elementary kids had to be at school at 7:30, they would have to be asleep by 6:45-7 pm (so start getting ready for bed well before 6:30). That is totally unrealistic for kids this age – and we don’t even do after school activities. I could manage that for the daycare years but I’d like to give my 6 year old a chance to eat dinner.
Mary Moo Cow says
Our district flipped schedules a few years ago so that elementary starts first, then middle, and then high school (I think around 9 and runs until 3:30 or so.) The arguments for doing so were teenage driver safety and letting working parents get to work earlier so they would not have to take so much time off on the afternoon to get kids: working from 8-3 instead of 9-5, I guess, and needing before and after school care. It hasn’t been in the news and there haven’t been any petitions to change it, so I’m guessing it’s working.
Anonymous says
The one thing our school district gets right is starting elementary school early and middle and high school later. Starting elementary school early allows working parents to avoid before-school care; middle and high school kids can generally get themselves on the bus in the morning. Starting high school later lets teens follow their natural sleep rhythms more. The problem is that high school doesn’t get out until 3:45, so it’s impossible to fit in orthodontist appointments etc. after school, sports practices go very late, and there isn’t as much time to get homework done after school. They could solve that last part by not assigning so much meaningless busywork.
Anonymous says
Even starting at 8 our elementary ends at 3:40.
Anonymous says
That is almost an hour longer than our high school goes! Great for working parents, though.
Anon says
That’s almost two hours longer than our elementary school day! Ours is 8:45-2:45.
Anon says
You are right that all the research says they should be flipped. Teens need to sleep in more than little kids do. Our district pushed high school back to 8:20 recently, based on that research, but elementary still starts later…8:45.
Anonymous says
Also in MA. Our district recently switched so elementary starts at 7:55 and middle and high school start at 8:30.
My elem kids have to catch the bus at 7:05 which is rough. But better than a high schooler trying to do it!
anon says
Our elementary schools are the last to open. My kids don’t start until 9:05 and don’t get out until 4 PM. By the time they get off the bus and get home it is 4:30 PM. It makes for a really tight evening when our kindergartner heads up to bed at 7 PM. She has dance class one night a week from 5-6 PM, so she changes quickly, goes to dance, and gets home around 6:15 PM for dinner. Not a lot of time for play.
EP-er says
Currently, our district is 7:30 HS, 8:00 MS, and 9:10 (!!!) for elementary school. For my eldest who wakes up at 6 AM everyday, this was a nightmare… lunch wasn’t until 1 PM. Anyway, he starts HS next year and they are changing start times to support the research on teenagers needing to sleep in later. They haven’t published the exact times yet, so waiting to see what it looks like. I do know that sports & afterschool jobs are main motivators for the earlier start times with the older ages.
Anonymous says
I don’t know how kids these days play sports or have jobs. Our high school kids take 7 academic courses plus one elective. If they take AP or IB courses, which all college-bound students need to do, the homework load is 25 – 30 hours a week.
Anon says
“If they take AP or IB courses, which all college-bound students need to do”
Ummm what? All college bound students do not take AP courses. Sure, there are some elite private colleges you can’t get into without AP coursers but most college bound students do not go to Harvard.
Anonymous says
Here you need AP to get into State U. It’s not like it was back when we all went to college.
Anon says
What State U is that? I think people want parents to think that their kids need to take all AP classes to get into a state university, but they really don’t need to.
Anon says
I can believe that for one of the top tier state schools like Berkeley or Michigan, but there are many options for four year college that are less competitive than those schools.
EP-er says
We do have a LOT of kids with AP classes or in the IB program (but that is a separate school.) Sports are a huge thing arounds here, with practice in the mornings before school, and practice/games afterschool. And the travel soccer/baseball/softball/swim/etc…. and some do have jobs. I know a lot of burnt out college kids because HS is so intense here.
Anon says
In some areas older siblings actually take younger kids to school and/or are needed to get them ready in the morning if parents need to leave for work even earlier. Not everyone has access to paid caregivers. To the extent that’s parentification, that’s unfortunate but it’s often the reality.
Boston Legal Eagle says
It sounds like a lot of your districts have flipped based on research. Who do you think I should petition to get this changed? District admins? PTO? Of course, this may have been brought up before and denied – I can check with my town’s moms fb group.
Anon says
It was school board led in my town, so I’d start with school board members if you know any.
Anon says
But also our district didn’t move elementary up – just pushed high school back.
NYCer says
Our elementary school starts at 8:30, and I would absolutely hate if it started at 7:30. As is, my daughter is on the bus at 7:45, and she is one of the last stops before the trip to the school (across town)! It sounds miserable for a 7yo to be on the bus at 6:45 am (or earlier). I suppose there would be less traffic that early, so maybe they could move up the pick up times. But still…
That said, I also think a 7:30 start is early for a high schooler. I saw below that OP was asking about a petition – I would only petition for high school to start later, not for elem to start earlier.
Anonymous says
It might not be possible for high school to start later without moving elementary school earlier, depending on how bus service is set up. In our district, the same buses do one run for elementary and then a combined run for middle and high school. If you wanted to move the earlier start time (here, elementary) later, you’d have to swap start times and move the other schools earlier, or you’d have to buy twice as many buses and hire twice as many bus drivers.
NYCer says
I don’t think NYC provides buses for high school students. (Though I could be wrong, but our high school definitely does not.) Other areas could be different though.
Anonymous says
Only in rare occasions. In general in NYC public elementary students walk, and middle and high school students take public transit. (NYCer, how come you get bussed – are you going out of zone? or private?) For this reason, I think, but am not 100% sure, that schools all start around the same time. I think individual principals have some discretion though, and HS students may not all have classes the first period in their school’s schedule.
NYC says
Anonymous at 4:43, my daughter goes to a private school that is far enough away that she qualifies for the bus. We pay a small-ish fee, but it is great. It is a regular “public school” type bus with a bus stop a couple blocks away, not one of those mini buses that does door-to-door service.
EDAnon says
My 5yo is crazy stubborn and it drives me nuts. It’s oddly warm today and he refused to walk to school (even though he loves to walk!). Can you please tell me about your stubborn kids to make me feel better? I will also take advice!
I don’t mind when he’s stubborn on stuff he doesn’t like. I just don’t get it when it’s something he enjoys!
Anonymous says
If he doesn’t ordinarily walk to school, I would not mess with a 5-year-old’s morning routine.
Anon says
Yeah, I think routine disruptions like that are hard for a lot of kids and I would say that’s less about stubborn and more about thriving on routine.
EDAnon says
We always walk in the warm weather, but we have been driving a ton lately (since it’s winter). Maybe I will just avoid the switches on him (especially with the general life disruption going on!).
The twist is the 3yo wanted to walk making it a tricky balance.
Walnut says
My three year old threw a giant temper tantrum and straight up refused to eat the afternoon snack I prepared for him.
It was a dirt cup. Complete with gummy worms. This is my kid that scales the pantry shelves to help himself to my chocolate stash.
EDAnon says
Aww! That is such a nice snack. I am sorry! (That does help me though)
Spirograph says
Sometimes I think my kids just like to be stubborn about stuff so they don’t fall out of practice (seriously, no danger of that anyway).
We sometimes get sugar cookies from the local bakery, and usually just one kid goes with DH to pick them out and makes a best guess of which shapes will appeal to the siblings. My 5 year old REFUSED A COOKIE the other day because it was the wrong color. It was that phase of the evening where he’s exhausted and literally anything will cause him to flop on the ground like the world is ending, but still.
octagon says
My kiddo (6.5) is not just stubborn, he has a fierce independent streak. We have to actively think about how we present options because he will always go for an option not mentioned. In your example, I could never say “do you want to walk or drive to school today”because he will ask to ride his scooter. But if I suggest scootering, he will want to walk instead. Sometimes we enforce the choice Is between A or B, other times it’s hilarious to see what third option he comes up with. His independence and creativity will serve him well but goodness it is exhausting right now.
EDAnon says
Haha that sounds like my future. We get there sometime as is. “Do you want to play in the yard or go to the playground?” “I want to go ice skating!’ Even though HE JUST SUGGESTED PLAYGROUND
Anon says
After skiing for a day and a half, my 5 yo sat down in the middle of a run and refused to budge for an hour and a half. She was probably tired, but we’d just had a hot chocolate break and she seemed fine prior to that instant. Ski patrol closed the hill in preparation for the lifts stopping (which we needed to get back to to base) and I still couldn’t get her to budge. She just sat there while we froze in the wind and snow. No negotiations worked. Finally, all on her own, she stood up and skied down like nothing had happened. We caught the lift as the workers were giving themselves lifts up the mountain to close. She was totally fine skiing the next day. I still don’t know what exactly it was, but an hour and a half is a really really really long time to stand on the side of a mountain in skiis in wind and 20 degree weather.
Anonymous says
And you let her ski the next day?!?
EDAnon says
That is so long. Ours has refused his ski lessons every weekend for the whole season. We have given up on it since he figured out how to ski on his own (they have such magic little brains!). I am impressed by your patience!
Anon says
No patience, just a lack of options. I had no way to get her down the mountain without her cooperation!
Anonymous says
My daughter did this at ski school over winter break, apparently. Worth every penny for me not to be the one who dealt with it. I’m sorry!
AnonName says
I just cried in front of my son’s daycare teachers because he was having a major meltdown when I picked him up because he wanted to keep playing. So embarassed, I hope they don’t send over CPA because they think I am an overwhelmed parent. He hasn’t made me cry since he was a newborn and would not sleep.
Any advice to make pick ups go smoother?
Anon says
It’s totally normal, don’t beat yourself up. And it is a good sign that he doesn’t want to leave school! It means you have found wonderful caregivers for him and he is happy and thriving at school. A few things that have worked for us: giving our kid a heads up about what time she’ll be picked up (in terms of relation to scheduled activities, e.g., “we’ll pick you up right after the afternoon group time”), having a snack in the car, having something fun planned at home to talk about (can be really simple like pizza for dinner or a new sticker or something like that), bringing the dog in the car with us. But I promise you the teachers have seen kids meltdown about not wanting to leave plenty of times and they are not going to call CPS.
Anonymous says
How old is he? Mine did this for a couple weeks and then got over it.
AnonName says
2,5 years old. He has times when it is easy to be picked up and other times when it is harder. But today was next level. So embarassed but my tears just started rolling.
Anonymous says
Completely normal. It’ll be another kid in the class doing that next week. At my kid’s daycare, we’re supposed to message them via the app to say we’re on our way and how long it’ll take to get there. That way, the teachers can help the kids with the transition. If this continues to be an issue, is that possible at your daycare? (For ours, it’s a relic of early Covidtimes when we weren’t allowed in the building for pickup/dropoff).
anon says
At that age, my kids needed food immediately upon pickup or would be total disasters. No time for niceties like getting home first. It didn’t matter that they have afternoon snack at daycare. When they needed a substantial amount of food at pickup, I just started bringing part of their dinner.
Anon says
I asked my daycare to start giving my kid a snack 10 minutes before pick up time. That way she wasn’t hungry or engaged in a game or toy when I arrived. It really did help. She’d even put her coat on before the snack so she was ready to walk out.
Aunt Jamesina says
Back when I taught high school, I had two moms cry about their kids during parent-teacher conferences. It never, ever even remotely crossed my mind to call CPS (and I can’t even imagine what CPS would think about a phone call about a parent crying! Not to make light of this situation, but I think it would be beyond weird to call them about a parent getting emotional). Those conferences just made me think that they were loving parents who were exhausted by issues their kids were going through! Parenting is a lot of hard work, I hope your day gets better.
Anon says
My kid went through a weird phase when she was almost 3 where she told these crazy lies to everyone, and one day she told her teachers that whenever we got mad at her we would take away her food, hit her in the face and send her to her room. It was bizarrely specific and totally false (except for the sending to the room part). We didn’t get CPS called on us even for *that* so OP doesn’t have to worry. The threshold for a teacher calling CPS is very high. Like I’m pretty sure they have to observe a parent physically abusing a child or see very suspicious bruises on a child to even consider it.
Aunt Jamesina says
Oh man, kids say the craziest things. That would definitely be a mandated reporting incident in my state.
anon says
I’m not sure if this is a developmental stage or crappy parenting or what, but my 7-year-old DD is driving us insane lately. She tries to negotiate every little last thing. We tell her no, we don’t give in, and still, the negotiations persist. The cheerful phrase asked and answered does not work on her. She’s being persistent and whiny, and it makes me dread the evenings. Maybe it’s a control thing? IDK. How do we rein this in?
Anon says
I don’t know but we’re having the exact same issue with my preschooler. She thinks EVERYTHING is a negotiation, and gets hysterical when we won’t negotiate. We offer her mac and cheese (which she likes!) for dinner. “Can I have a bagel?” “No, we’re having mac and cheese tonight.” “Please can I please please please have a bagel? Just a half a bagel?” “No, we’re having mac and cheese tonight.” “Please can I have the bagel? I don’t even need any cream cheese. Just a tiny piece of bagel with NO cream cheese.” “No, we’re having mac and cheese tonight.” *Throws self on floor and sobs hysterically*
Anon says
i have a similar thing, one thing i find helps, is when i say “we’re having mac and cheese tonight, but bagels and cream cheese sound yummy, should we have that for lunch tomorrow?” so including when you can have whatever kiddo wants
anon says
Putting things in writing can help sometimes. On the weekends, I grab a piece of construction paper and put a few lunch options on it, then hand it to the kids and ask what they want for lunch (options are things like PB&J, scrambled eggs, dinner leftovers). If they say I want mac and cheese, the response is that it’s not on the menu. And they accept that much more readily than if I just said verbally that it wasn’t an option. Sometimes writing a schedule can help: dinner, bath, book, or whatever if the kid is arguing about taking a bath after dinner.
Anonymous says
Reframe – These are great skills in an adult! She’s persistent! She’s not afraid to negotiate!
Anon says
Same, but mine is 7. I figure it’s because he has two lawyers for parents who argue / negotiate for a living. When he was younger it was cute: “Can I have one cookie?” “No.” “Okay, how about 3 cookies?” and we may have engaged it too much. Now, it means that our ‘no’ is just the opening argument – if I’m really not in the mood, I tell him the “no” is final and if that doesn’t work, I promise and enforce consequences if he continues to bring it up. “If you ask about screen time one more time tonight, there will be no screen time after school tomorrow.” That (usually works).
Anon says
I was a constantly negotiating kid. Now my 3 year old is already exhibiting that trait. I always considered it a strength of mine– I would lay out cohesive arguments with supporting evidence for my mom growing up, and she treated me and my reasons with respect. She didn’t always give in, but she always explained why and that made all the difference. Fast forward 20 years and my logical, argumentative self went to HLS and made a career of it :)
I try to keep that in mind when I tell my daughter no candy and she goes “ok, ok I know a good idea– just 2 candies, one red one green, and that’s IT!” When I just say “no” I definitely get more of a meltdown than when I respond with “you’ve already had fruit snacks and too much sugar makes your tummy hurt. We will save the candy for another day when it won’t give you a tummy ache.” Sure, she still sometimes throws a fit, but it’s usually much more contained.
Anonymous says
I have found that avoiding the actual word “no” helps a lot, but I don’t give as much explanation. E.g.,
– Can I have candy?
– You already had fruit snacks.
– Can I have a bagel for dinner?
– We are having mac and cheese. [instead of No, we are having mac and cheese.]
DLC says
Definitely not crappy parenting!
I think it’s part of kids growing up and stretching into their own. I don’t know that you can/ should do anything about the persistence, but we definitely have a “no whining” stance. I feel like my ten year old actually thinks that she can wear me down. And truth, sometimes she does.
Sometimes it does help to make a plan with her for when the answer can be “yes”. Her big thing is screen time/ audiobooks. So we make a plan for when screen time can happen (“finish x, y, and z chores) or “I really can’t with your audiobook tonight. If you finish picking up you can listen to it with your earphones before bed.”
And sometimes I say, “Did I say yes two minutes ago? Well I’m still not going to say yes now.”
Meltdowns says
I could use some sympathy? Commiseration? Advice? I am very much the preferred parent to my toddler, and he’s been having 20-minute long meltdowns lately (1.5 years old). Maybe it’s related to him not feeling well over the weekend or maybe he’s starting the terrible 2s early but man those meltdowns are hard. I feel like I am holding my breath all the time and am so on edge (I do have a therapist and will be bribing this up at our next appointment). Ugh, this stage is so hard. I do give him a LOT of attention, so idk if that is the answer. I feel like I am doing the things child development experts believe online suggest (stay near your child, tell them they are safe, have one-on-one time) and it isn’t working.
Anon says
I have a kid who has never calmed down with our presence or any of the recommended techniques like holding them and talking to them and validating their emotions. From the age of 1, the only thing she has wanted during a meltdown is to be alone in her bed (a safe place for her) and to be able to suck her hand, which is a soothing thing for her. Staying close to her, naming her emotions and especially touching her just escalate things. I know Dr Becky says kids who are melting down and telling you to leave don’t mean it and it’s just their fear of abandonment talking, but I really feel like when my kid is screaming at us to leave she means it. Staying her in room and especially touching her when she’s telling us not to feels like we’re not respecting her boundaries. So we just leave, even though it’s the “wrong” thing to do. We always offer hugs and verbal support afterwards.
anon says
Both of my kids are this way. Like it feels wrong to leave, but it feels worse to stay when they clearly need a minute. In one of my kid’s cases, staying has actively made the meltdown worse. IDK, sometimes I feel so at odds with modern parenting approaches. I love that we’re all trying to be more emotionally in tune with our kids and emotionally validating, but sometimes I swear it just p!sses them off.
Anonymous says
My kid is this way and so am I. If I’m upset, I want my well-meaning husband to stop trying to console me, go away, and leave me to read a book or watch a comfort show or rage-clean my closet.
I think the parenting pendulum has swung too far away from authoritarian parenting, past authoritative parenting where the adults act like calm caring adults, even past permissive parenting where we let our kids eat whatever they want, all the way to indulgent parenting where parents actively whip up children’s emotions into a frenzy. It’s no wonder it p!sses the kids off.
Anon says
Yeah, I feel bad about it (especially when Dr Becky tells me I’m inflicting lifelong emotional trauma on her by leaving mid-meltdown!) but only I know my kid and what works for her, and she has always calmed down 100 times faster when her request to be alone is honored. And I get it. I like to be alone when I’m sad or mad too. We offer her all kinds of emotional support and affection when she’s calm so hopefully she knows how loved she is and that we will always be here for her when she wants to talk.
Anonymous says
I just love how the parenting “experts” tell moms (always moms, not dads) that we are inflicting lifelong damage on our children if we don’t perfectly execute their strategies or they don’t work with our kids. My favorite was the pediatrician who told me I would damage the baby’s brain by setting her down in the pack n play to cry for a minute so I could use the bathroom.
Anon says
Oh good grief. That ped should lose their license.
EDAnon says
My older one totally loses it if I try to touch him. He HATES when I name emotions. He likes space (and rebounds way faster). If he stays sad after the intensity has passed, then he likes some back rubs. I check on him, tell him I love him and that he can call for me if he wants me back. It works for us and I 0% think that my departure is traumatic for him
Anon says
My kid is like this too. When he’s mid-meltdown he will get up and walk away and throw himself on the floor in the other room for a couple minutes. I just sit on the floor and wait for him, and he eventually comes and sits in my lap and takes a few deep breaths and is fine. Seems like he just needs a little space, and honestly when he’s screaming so do I.
Anonymous says
I think this can be a particularly rough age for some kids, especially if they have trouble expressing themselves verbally. They just get so frustrated. Once his language skills develop more, his 2s may be better!
Meltdown says
All of these responses are helping a bit, thanks! Never heard of Dr. Becky, and now I’m not sure if I should check her out or if that would make me feel worse. Maybe we’ll get lucky and the meltdowns will lessen as verbal skills develop.
Anon says
Parenting through meltdowns is a long game, and you won’t really know if something “worked” for months or years (or decades when you see how they turn out as adults, lol?) Don’t be afraid to trust your gut and
tweak the parenting advice for your particular kid, as others have said — 1.5 is still such a baby, and with each meltdown you may get a better handle on what sets him off and what helps him settle.
I always start with going back to basics: is he getting enough sleep, enough to eat, and enough downtime at home? Enough outdoor/gross motor time is another important component starting at that age, as well as starting to give him appropriate freedom and independence (are there patterns to the meltdowns? Can you give him more agency to do himself whatever he is objecting to?)
anonM says
How long has this been going on? right at 2 my LO started having longggg (20-30 min) tantrums. My older kiddo did not ever go that long. I started to get worried, then it just stopped. Still cries etc. but not nearly that long. I’d be doing more research/asking ped if it had continued, but just a note that it could be a short phase.
Meltdown says
Less than a week. I would love it if it’s just a short phase!
Anonanonanon says
Lots of disagreement today so I’ll share something we can all agree on: UTIs are h3ll.
Anonymous says
No one can dispute that! Sending virtual hugs and cranberry juice.
Anonanonanon says
Thank you! I gave up trying to flush it out, had my “enough is enough” moment at 6 AM and thank goodness for my HMO because I filled out an online questionnaire, was on the phone with a doc at 6:15, and picked up my prescription right when they opened at 8. Hoping to feel better soon!
Anonymous says
+ a million