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And — here are some of our latest threadjacks of interest – working mom questions asked by the commenters!
- If you’re a working parent of an infant with low sleep needs, how do you function at work when you’re in the throes of baby’s sleep regression?
- Should I cut my childcare down to 12 hours a month if I work from home?
- Will my baby have speech delays if we raise her bilingual?
- Has anyone given birth in a teaching hospital?
- My child eats everything, and my friends’ kids do not – how should I handle? In general, what is the best way to handle when your child has some skill/ability and your friend’s child doesn’t have that skill/ability?
- ADHD moms, give me your tips to help with things like behavior in the classroom, attention to detail, etc?
- I think I suffer from mom rage…
- My husband and kids are gone this weekend – how should I enjoy my free time?
- I’m struggling to be compassionate with a SAHM friend who complains she doesn’t have enough hours of childcare.
- If you exclusively formula fed, what tips do you have for in the hospital and coming home?
- Could I take my 4-yo and 8-yo on a 7-8 day trip to Paris, Lyon, and Madrid?
Cb says
A nursery friend is round for a playdate and it’s so weird to hear kids playing without any input required from us! Is this what it’s like to have 2 kids? I made them snack and lunch, but otherwise they’re just hanging out. It’s the first time we’ve done a drop off playdate here so my son is a bit mystified, he isn’t quite assertive enough to direct things, but his pal is 5 so they seem to be managing.
Anon says
If that’s what it’s like in everyone else’s homes with two kids then I’m doing something wrong. Our just turned 3 year old twins still require parental input, but what you’ve described sounds wonderful. Anytime you need a break, just invite that kid over!
Cb says
My husband is playing with them now, but I think that’s more out of protectiveness of the model railway. They are really great together, my son went over there when we had simultaneous Saturday work crises and I had missed the bus and was about to jump in a cab when I got a message to “take your time, have a coffee, we’re getting DIY done because the boys are so engrossed in their play!”
They ate piles of food for lunch, not used to cooking for 4! And they were unanimous in their rejection of Aldi vegan meatballs.
Anon says
I think it’s better than having two kids because kids are normally on good behavior at play dates so you have all of the playing together with none of the fighting.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Yes, this. Kids are much better behaved with friends than with siblings, at least based on seeing how my kids interact. I love that playdates are more available now!
Cb says
Yes, he was really too young pre-pandemic but we figured dropoff playdates with kids he goes to nursery with are fairly safe (parents all only half vaccinated at this point).
GCA says
Well, siblings are a little different, but when kid 1 started playing WITH his friends (or rather, our friends’ kids) around that age, we gladly left them to it. I remember when he was about 4 we went to our friends’ for a holiday gathering and basically didn’t hear from him + our friends’ 4yo daughter for the next five hours. (We stepped in exactly once: they had filled a bucket with water and were using her play cleaning set to mop the bathroom…) These days they still get along like a house on fire and it’s fantastic.
Now, siblings… we have a 6yo and an almost-3 and they entertain each other 40% of the time, ignore each other or demand completely different things 40% of the time, and are at each other’s throats 20%.
Lyssa says
For us, it’s very on and off. Sometimes, it’s really beautiful – “Come on, sibling! Let’s do this!” and you don’t have to think about them for quite a while. But that can dissolve quickly, and some days it does little but dissolve into bickering. And the fights are so, so dumb.
FWIW, we have a few neighbor kids who are at our house several times a week (not formal playdates, just kids wandering over and asking to play), and they’ve become a little more like siblings in this regard. Usually great, but it dissolves sometimes, too. But I’m very glad they have both the friends and sibling, particularly in this past year.
Anonymous says
Yes, it is!! But mine are older: 3/5/7. My 3 and 5 y/o are playing right now and can go for an hour or so on a good day with 0 input from me.
CPA Lady says
IMO, the vast majority of relationships, including both friend and family relationships, have much more to do with personality and interests than anything else. There is a big pile of “luck of the draw” when it comes to how well kids (either friends or siblings) play with each other.
If you find a kid your kid almost always plays well with, that is awesome. There are some playdates where my daughter just vanishes for hours with her friends. There are some playdates where there is a lot of bickering and hurt feelings (and with a group of kids, a single kid added or subtracted can completely change the dynamic of the whole group). There are some playdates where instead of things being easier, everything is harder, because when you have a particularly needy kid over to play, and your kid is a little bit needy, they feed off of each other and the neediness increases exponentially. There are some playdates where a much bolder kids gets a more timid kid to do something risky and that kid might get hurt but maybe also learns that they are braver than they thought. There are some playdates where quiet is a good thing. There are some playdates where quiet is a sign that you’re going to have to pray you can get the nail polish stains off your wall.
Sibling relationships are also personality dependent and age gap dependent too. Having a second child doesn’t mean your kids will play by themselves peacefully unsupervised for hours every day. It COULD mean that if their personalities, ages, and interests mesh well (e.g. my sister and I who did hours and hours of elaborate world building with our barbies in the back yard). Or they could be at each other’s throats a lot of the time (e.g. my quiet, responsible, fastidious niece who loses it every time her destructive whirlwind of a brother smashes her carefully constructed lego project to smithereens).
Anon says
With my kids, yes, it’s a lot like that a lot of the time. They love for us to join but we are generally not part of the play or pretend play. Kids are 6,4,2. We do have to intervene for fights or when someone gets hurt, but yeah, it’s one of the cooler things about siblings. Especially in our backyard, I just hang out and they have their own little world. I’m sure relationships will ebb and flow so trying to enjoy it while it lasts!
Ifiknew says
My 4 year old talks back to us a lot saying things like I don’t like you when I ask her to brush her teeth. Is this normal? I know this kind of talking back wouldn’t have been accepted when I was growing up but I bet a lot of what my parents did wouldn’t be acceptable today. I’ve tried to teach her to say mom that makes me feel mad or sad but of course that’s hard for a 4 year old. At a loss for what to do. The preschooler years are so tough in these ways
Anonymous says
For talking back, you can try requiring a “do-over.” Make her go back and express herself in an acceptable manner. This also works with eye-rolling, etc.
No Face says
“Nice words in a nice tone” is my prompt. Then she tries again. We can express displeasure and negative feelings without insulting someone is the life lesson I am trying to impart.
Anon says
I go with a simple ‘Try again’ pretty often. Not yelling, just very direct: ‘Try again.’
Mary Moo Cow says
My almost 6 year old when through this somewhere in age 5. I tried the “do-over” tactic: asking her if she wanted to say that again, or saying “Excuse me?”in a tone that conveyed my disappointment/disapproval. I also marveled at how I wouldn’t have gotten away with that as a kid, but my mom assured me I could be real sassy and I just remember it differently.
Anonymous says
Sassy is good! Why do we teach children to be passive and meek and never express a feeling!
Mary Moo Cow says
I’m okay with cheeky sass. I don’t appreciate snarky sass or mean sass, “back talk sass.”
Spirograph says
Yes, there’s sass and then there’s just being rude. It’s easy to tell the difference, and if it’s *not* easy to tell the difference, the kid isn’t doing “cheeky sass” right, so still worth correcting.
OP, yes, this is totally normal, and I just keep calm and carry on, ignoring protests. “OK, but you still need to brush your teeth.” or if she’s being really mean and calling you names or saying she doesn’t like you, “that hurts my feelings and makes me sad… and you still need to brush your teeth.”
Anonymous says
Sass is not OK. If my child makes a rational argument I will listen to it and sometimes change my mind. But sass is not productive and is not acceptable in the adult world.
Anon says
Sass is obnoxious when coming from a child. Most of what makes “sassy” acceptable, even admirable, is the ability to back it up. Children don’t have that ability.
My much-younger stepsister was full of “sass” and “spunk,” including telling me, an electrical engineer, that her third-grade work was ‘waaaay harder’ than what I did in college and I wouldn’t need to work past dinner if I had her skillz. Her parents thought it was totes adorbs; I disengaged and patiently waited for her to grow out of that phase.
Fast-forward to her first out-of-college job, some ‘fill out spreadsheets in a cubicle’ thing, and she literally called home every night crying her eyes out at how hard it was. She sometimes had to stay after 5 pm and once even had to miss margs with the girls. Her parents used this to try to guilt me about how haaard her life was and told me I was a horrible person when I doubled over laughing and asked if she was that much of a loser. In their minds, it must be the Hardest Job Ever if Miss Sassy is struggling. It never occurred to them to ask if she can back up her big sassy mouth..
Anonanonanon says
This reminds me of the “hampster” twitter thread. You’d get a laugh out of it if you haven’t seen it
Anonymous says
I just found that. That is amazing and awful.
Anonymous says
Yes that’s extremely normal
Anon says
I’d probably do some narrating – like “oh you don’t like when i tell you it’s time to brush. It’s ok to not like brushing your teeth. I don’t always feel like brushing my teeth either, but I want to keep my teeth healthy. What should we do after we brush our teeth.” Much easier said than done in the moment
Anon says
When my kid did this, I just ignored it and she stopped saying it. My kid at least is doing it to get a reaction so if you don’t react it gets boring for her. She also has the personality that if you tried to make her do a do-over it would just escalate from an eye-rolling “I don’t like you” to a screaming “I hate you” but if you ignore she’s likely to stop doing it pretty fast. I talked back to my parents a lot so I think I have a higher tolerance for it than some people.
Anon says
if you look at Big Little Feelings on Instagram, they have a post exactly about this today
Homework Battle Help? says
Somewhere in the last few weeks, homework has become a battle in our house. DD has 1-2 assignments a night that should take 10-15 minutes, according to her teacher. DH and I like to have her do it when she gets home, before TV, although I’m more flexible on that than he is. She’s home right after school, so I’m sympathetic that she be fried, but trying to do it after dinner is a nightmare. As it is, she wines, or cries, or hides, drags herself to the table, does deliberately sloppy work, is easily distracted, and generally makes it a very unpleasant half hour. What do y’all do for homework for early elementary kids?
Anon says
is there time post-TV, before dinner, can you do it then? sounds like she needs some time to decompress and eat a snack, and then do homework. you don’t mention what grade she is in, and i’d have a lot of trouble with this too as a parent – but if she does sloppy work, does it matter at this point in her educational career and at this point in the school year? like the stakes seem fairly low? did something change over the last few weeks either at home or at school?
Anon says
+1. I’m assuming early elementary based on only 10-15 minutes of homework. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a 6 or 7 year old to come home from school and sit right down to homework. Giver her time to decompress with TV before having her sit down and do it. Don’t stress if it gets done poorly or not at all.
Jeffiner says
Ugh, my kid did this, making every night a battle. We finally got a good routine down two weeks before school let out.
My kid has 4 worksheets a week, all due on Friday, but we got the packets earlier. Its much easier to get her to do a worksheet after lunch on Saturday or Sunday than after dinner during the week, so we make sure to start early. She doesn’t have to do a whole worksheet, just a few lines. We’ll talk about what she plans to do each day to get it all done in time, so she knows her schedule ahead of time and can mentally prepare.
I’ve also found that leaving her to do it worked out better than sitting with her. I read the instructions for her, handed her a pencil, and told her I was going to fold laundry and would come back to answer any questions. She was shocked, but actually put in an effort and got some done.
Anonymous says
How old? Our elem doesn’t start homework until 2nd and evening then it’s really just to get them in the groove of practicing for real homework that comes later.
SC says
I would suggest giving her time for a snack and play, but not screen time, before starting homework. I think it’s hard to transition out of screen time and into school work. But she may feel better if she has some food plus 20-30 minutes to play with her toys, play outside, color, or just sit and talk to a parent–whatever she does to process her day.
FWIW, the school I attended assigned tons of homework. I was in the after-care program, which included a study hall for us to get our homework done. We were dismissed from class at 3:20, had a snack in aftercare, and didn’t start homework until 4:00. Also, when I was an after-school nanny for a 1st grader and 4th grader, who had a really strict mom, they always had a snack, which also gave them 15 minutes to talk to me and each other about their day, before starting homework.
Anon says
+1. Screen time is not effective decompression time for kids. Going outside or reading or playing a game together would be better, and then she can move into homework and then to TV. (We’ve mostly cut out screen time in weeknights because of the opportunity cost – other activities are better for helping them process their day and rest their brains)
Katala says
+2 we have the kids do an “activity” (drawing, music, legos) and/or go to the backyard along with a snack, then homework (really just for my K’r and it’s 20 minutes of silent reading), then they can have screens. They get home around 3:45-3:55 and cannot have screen time before 4:45. When we try to get him to do the homework immediately he’s super cranky about it, but now that he knows the routine and has the snack + something else time in between, it’s much less of a fight. Most days.
Spirograph says
How is homework structured? Is it due the next day, or do you get a packet for the week? My son’s homework comes home Friday and is due the next Friday. What seems to work best is doing a bit each morning. Eat breakfast, get dressed, then sit back down at the table for 10 min to write some vocab sentences or whatever. In the evening we have all those same problems. We’ve tied completing homework to earning screen time, which is a huge motivator for him. He’s only in 2nd grade, so I’m not actually worried about grades or anything, it’s more about accountability and responsibility and building routines.
octagon says
We do one short show (20-30 minutes) with a snack, then homework. I don’t love the screen time, but my kid needs time to decompress after the day. If homework is done quickly and without whining, another show is earned (this is while I prep dinner). Otherwise kiddo sits there until it’s done. If it’s dinnertime and homework isn’t done, there’s no dessert until homework is done. We take the dog out for a walk at a set time so if homework and treat aren’t over by then, treat doesn’t happen. I’ve only had to deal with that once, thankfully, kiddo understands now and doesn’t want to lose the sweets (even though it’s typically like, 5 M&Ms or something really small).
Hmmmm says
No advice, but ugh, I so wish schools would do away with homework for elementary school aged kids.
anon says
Also, it’s May – I think kids are a little fried at the end of the year. Could a compromise be an hour after school to chill and then do the homework? We always do screen time during cooking dinner time, so it’s easy to say “you need to have done XYZ” before screen time – it gives them time to plan out their afternoon.
Anonymous says
It sounds like your daughter may be a little young for this, but you could try enlisting her to create a plan so she has some ownership. E.g., I need x minute break before I start, or I will watch 1 show and then do it before I have any other screentime, or I will finish 1 assignment and then get a 10 minute break before the rest or whatever. And then if the plan doesn’t go well you can reformulate, but letting her start learning to self-regulate in this way is actually really valuable.
Our son has not had homework during the pandemic, for which I am grateful as “school” was so often at home. He was hybrid 1-2 days a week most of the year and is now back 5 days a week, but homework hasn’t restarted. Pre-pandemic he always did it after dinner. It wasn’t ideal but I guess it worked. Partly due to pandemic remote learning, I have realized that often when he is really resistant or struggling it is because he doesn’t understand what he needs to do well enough to feel confident he can do it correctly. He doesn’t seem to be able to articulate that; he’ll just say “this is impossible!” (He’s almost 9). And I agree that they and their teachers are fried at this point in the year – keep expectations low.
Anon says
For my K and 2nd with no after-school care right now, they get 30 min after they get home to decompress. 15 min is play time (no screen), 15 min is either play or 1:1 time with a parent. (We alternate who goes first when one parent is working.) After that, they get to pick a snack to eat while they do homework. Usually it’s an apple or a granola bar. Once they show a parent their completed homework, they read for 20 min and then get free choice (usually screens) until dinner.
We have a little graphic of this on our fridge so they remember the order. Adding the 1:1 time with a parent is key – they process things verbally so being able to talk about whatever really helps them calm down from the school day and focus on homework.
Anonymous says
I’m looking for easy lunches for the summer nanny to make for kiddo and herself. It seems like we rotate through the same 2-3 lunches on the weekends, and I’m concerned those will get old fast for both kiddo and the nanny. I’m fine doing some prep for them. Thanks!
Cb says
Could you do pasta salads or grain bowls?
Mathy says
Theme days, + veggie and fruit at each meal? I try to do this for dinner and while it doesn’t make things automatically easy, it helps with decision overload. Something like…
Monday = sandwiches
Tuesday = pasta salad
Wednesday = make your own pizza
Thursday = quesadillas
Friday = snacky lunch (cut up deli meat or chicken, crackers or baguette, fruit, cheese, veggies, fruit – I do this in a muffin tin and my kids go nuts over it)
AnotherAnon says
These are all fun ideas; a theme would make it easy to remember too. How old is your kid? My 4 y/o actually prefers to eat pb&j every singe day (including weekends) so I just rotate the fruit and veggies I serve. I also like to eat a lot of salads in the summer, so I’d do salad prep for nanny and just incorporate the veggies into kiddo’s lunch. That’s what we did at home during quarantine last summer.
Anonymous says
Can you ask the nanny what he or she wants to eat so you can have that available, and then make a plan for the kid lunches? It might not be the same thing. My son is terribly picky and would also be happy to eat the same thing every single day.
anon says
I am looking for ideas on activities to keep an older teen doing and not stewing during the summer. Background on this particular situation: the girl is the eldest (17) of the kids and the parents are in a second round of a custody battle. Kids are currently with their mom, and the mother appears to be aggressively trying to alienate the children from their father (textbook Parental Alienation Syndrome situation from what the father has been reading about, observing, and experiencing). It appears that the court will be enforcing the previously agreed upon 50/50 custody, which isn’t currently being followed by the mom, but most likely this won’t happen for another month at least due to the process being slow and a few hiccups that have occurred thus far.
Of the kids, the daughter in question appears to be the most bought into the alienating techniques and also possibly the BFF of her mom. DD is acting out to her Dad when they talk, being fairly manipulative and disrespectful, ignoring his efforts to talk to her, inciting her siblings to do the same, etc. So yes, this is probably one part normal teen and one part teen caught up in a divorce where parental alienation is in play and the mom seems to want complete control over the children.
Dad is concerned that DD will be quite angry when the original 50/50 custody is re-enforced and DD ends up at Dad’s house over summer with no job, few friends, no school to occupy her time and nothing immediate to do but text her mom, stew all day, and make Dad’s life as difficult as possible.
My part in this is helping the Dad brainstorm for summer activities that keep the kids occupied and their hands, bodies, and minds busy, so they aren’t on their devices all day, and as such their mom can’t just text with them all day (and she is prone to do when they are with their father). Family and one on one activities are obvious: Swimming, hiking, shopping or errand trips, cooking, eating out, trips for ice cream, introducing new toys or board games or video games, and having people over. Advice for the oldest and what might help her enjoy her summer I’m struggling with. At her age my situation was entirely different so I don’t have compatible experience to draw from here.
My ask here is if anyone has any ideas on summer activities for an older teen who’s missed the window to sign up for volunteering (most likely), to get a summer job, or commit to anything that keeps her occupied in a healthy fashion. She likes to paint and read. She has a few friends, but is not, from what i can tell, being encouraged from her mom to socialize with friends or anyone independently (aka no spend the nights, day visits to their houses, or even having them over to her house). It’s also unknown if those friends have jobs and will be busy themselves this summer.
Anon says
I don’t know where you live, but where i live many camps are still hiring counselors/counselors in training so that might actually be an option assuming there is a way to get her there. Volunteering at the library? Working as a babysitter/mother’s helper for a local family – i bet there is a family out there with kids who like crafts. She might also still be able to sign up for a painting class somewhere or i know you say you want her off the computer but a virtual class? What kinds of things does she like to paint? Would she like a DIY type of project fixing up a piece of furniture? Your post implies there are younger siblings – what are they doing?
No Face says
I think during normal times, it could be late in the season to find a structure volunteer program or job, but not this year! Many places are desperate to hire people for entry-level work. Dad should help her apply to jobs. It will give her something to do, give her life skills (dealing with an employer, customers, showing up when you don’t feel like it), and give her some spending money to use as she sees fit.
Cb says
Dan, the host from Mom and Dad are fighting had what I thought was a really smart system of 6 things a day – some of which were “useful” and some of which were fun (listen to a whole album) during the pandemic summer. But I think it would be difficult to achieve without buy in. But is it really too late for volunteering or a job? Even if it’s just babysitting or running errands for neighbours?
Anonymous says
A 17 year old who wants to spend her summer angry and stewing will do just that. Does she have a car? Is dad close to mom location wise? Can he give her access to a car/rides to see friends? Offer to set up a painting studio in his house for her and take her to buy supplies? Encourage her to invite friends over?
Also just being honest I don’t really think it’s cool for Dad to enforce 50/50 custody on a 17 year old if this means being separated from her friends and then whine about his kid being rude (ummm hi to 17 year old girls?) and need some other woman to help him figure out how to parent his kids.
Anonymous says
I disagree about the dad. Longterm in life, this girls relationship with her dad is way more important than her relationships with her high school friends. She might be angsty right now and taking that out on him, but it is what it is. He can definitely facilitate communicaiton with the friends/seeing the friends. But it sounds like she need to work on the relationship with her dad. Maybe therapy will help.
Anonymous says
Enforcing a custody agreement on a 17 year old and having her to go into therapy to “work” on her relationship with her father don’t seem like fun ways for a 17 year old to spend a summer and wont encourage her to maintain a relationship with him after she is 18.
Anon says
Seriously! Even 17 year olds in happy, stable families don’t want to spend time with their parents. It’s her last summer with her high school friends. Just let her be.
Anonymous says
Yes, this is a one-way ticket to ending the relationship. The dad needs to be playing the long game if he wants to maintain a relationship with her into adulthood, or have the possibility of rekindling the relationship later on.
Anon says
I’d bet a lot that there’s a much better reason she doesn’t want to spend the summer w/her dad than some kind of devious maternal plot.
anon says
OP here – yes the scenario you’re describing does suck. But that’s not this scenario. I offered to ask this group of people with more experience and better ideas than mine about his situation, and it’ll be up to him to pursue them or not. I think he’s motivated to try to keep this relationship with DD, Her current behavior is new and correlates exactly with the mother’s not honoring the previous custody agreement. I think he will act on suggestions, it’s just I didn’t have any good ones. So thank you all for the information you’re giving me.
For those who’ve asked: Dad and Mom live about 15 min from each other, so no new towns, same friend groups, etc. Dad is freelancer to works less to none when he has the kids, so he’ll be available to do things with and for them. Dad’s place isn’t as cozy as mom’s place, but he’s improving it as fast as money and time allow and per requests from kids to help them feel at home and comfortable. DD has several siblings ranging from 6 to 14. The only other girl is the 6 yo. Other children are so far less angry or acting out and will most likely enjoy the options I presented in the original post.
I don’t know that mom is helping DD find a summer job or volunteer opportunity and I am not sure DD would talk to Dad about it if he suggested it, but I will certainly pass that on for him to try.
For Parental Alienation Syndrome, the source of info I am familiar with is from a book by Richard Warshak called Divorce Poison. It’s my understanding some courts do recognize PAS, though that may be recent development and it may require a lot of proof on all parties involved. If there’s a better way to describe the behavior of a parent who is actively bad mouthing, discrediting, and even lying to their kids about the other parent, to the point that the kids are conflicted when around or pulling away from that other parent, what do you call that? General poor behavior?
Dad and kids have had a good relationship up to the present.
Anonymous says
17 year olds usually work, volunteer, do some sort of rich kid “experience” that is basically fancy camp, or hang around hone/with their friend playing on their phones.
Anonymous says
Are you the stepmother? The dad’s sister?
Honestly, dad doesn’t sound like his living situation is that stable. His place is not “cozy”? He doesn’t work regularly? It doesn’t seem fair to a 17-year-old to force her to spend what is probably her last summer before college in a suboptimal physical environment with a barely-employed parent she doesn’t want to see.
Anon says
+1
Anonymous says
Yeah this! I feel like there’s a big story on dad we are missing here.
Spirograph says
I’m really confused about this question, especially with the follow up. If they live 15 minutes from each other, why can’t she still see her friends? Why are you attributing moody 17-year-old-ness (no doubt exacerbated by a really frustrating year and a half of missed-everything due to pandemic) to a syndrome? When I was 17, my situation was very much the same — divorced parents who lived near each other. My mom had primary custody, and I saw my dad a night or two a week and spent some weekends with him. My mom never actively tried to badmouth my dad or otherwise influence me to alienate him, but as a 17 year old girl, I just didn’t have much I wanted to talk to him about. This was partly because he had not been a particularly day-to-day involved parent before my parents divorced… he kind of swooped in and did fun things, and was there for vacations, but I wasn’t comfortable just being around him the way I was my mom (because she was the one who had actually always been around). I would not have appreciated being forced to live at his place 50% of the time, especially if he weren’t working and were just constantly trying to engage with me. I don’t know how many 17 year olds would like having a parent up in their space all the time.
I worked at a sleep-away summer camp the summer I was 17, and it was fantastic. The daughter may feel like she can’t plan the summer she wants because she has to spend time with dad, and that is a sure recipe for resentment no matter how much mandatory fun he tries to plan. He should probably start by asking *her* what she wants to do this summer, and making it clear that he does not want the “enforced” visitation time to prevent her from getting the job she wants, seeing the friends she wants to see, or otherwise trying enjoy her summer.
She hasn’t missed any windows to get a job. Restaurants everywhere are desperate to hire people. Summer camps may still be looking. Places that rely on volunteers can almost always use more volunteers.
Anon says
This. This. Every word of this.
avocado says
+2. The daughter is 17. Both parents should be trying to help her do what she wants to do for the summer, ideally something independent that builds her resume for college and/or builds adulting skills. This could be summer college coursework, a job, a research assistantship, a summer away working as a camp counselor, etc. At this point the best thing dad can do for his relationship with her is to support her choices and back off.
Katala says
Yep. I had a job and a car and spent literally from the moment I woke up until curfew out of the house during the summer when I was 17. I didn’t need or want any help figuring out what to do with my time. Could it have been “better” spent? Sure. But 17 year olds aren’t great optimizers of time and opportunities. As long as she’s relatively safe and comes home as required by house rules, I’d let her do her thing.
Realist says
+ 1 million
Anonanonanon says
This x1000. She should still get to have a job and see her friends if dad and mom live 15 minutes apart. She won’t hate dad so much if the parts of her life she enjoys can still continue when she’s there.
Anonymous says
“If there’s a better way to describe the behavior of a parent who is actively bad mouthing, discrediting, and even lying to their kids about the other parent, to the point that the kids are conflicted when around or pulling away from that other parent, what do you call that? General poor behavior?”
This is called a high-conflict divorce. Generally it’s not one-sided.
Anonymous says
Some kind of art class? If there are local art schools, colleges with decent art programs, museums or art centers, they may have classes appropriate for older teens and young adults, like a portfolio prep program.
Also, it seems like a lot of employers are having trouble finding people to fill minimum wage jobs right now. I would not assume at all that she has missed the window for finding work as a summer camp counselor or any remotely seasonal employment in the hospitality industry (e.g. ice cream stand, beach concessions, etc.). People are definitely still recruiting in my area, although our schools get out late.
Anon says
+1 it’s definitely not too late to get a minimum wage summer job.
Anon says
Honestly my answer would be let her stay with the mom. 17 year olds are old enough to make that decision, and I’m surprised the court would enforce 50-50 custody on a 17 year old who doesn’t want. Nasty divorce aside, being in a new town with no friends, no job and nothing to do sounds horrible for an older teen.
PSA: Parental alienation syndrome is not recognized by most psychologists. The psychologist who invented it was an advocate for men accused of child abuse, and defended and even testified on behalf of many men accused of child abuse (including Woody Allen) that the mother planted the false accusations in the child’s head as part of PAS. He’s a truly evil person. I understand divorce can create a toxic dynamic and some divorced parents bash their co-parents in an unhealthy way, but that term is very loaded and extremely off-putting to anyone who knows anything about Richard Gardner.
Anonymous says
Do you know anyone with a younger kid who needs a summer nanny? That can be a fun and low-key job for a 17-year-old, depending on the kids in question.
rakma says
As a former 17-yo who liked to paint (and read!) an area where her painting supplies are accessible and doesn’t have to be fully cleaned up (not a kitchen table or other place that has a shared use) would be a great way of encouraging her to do something that she enjoys but also give her some of her own space. For me this was a corner of the basement, and having that separate space from my room was a really great way of my parents showing support for the activity,
Anonymous says
Also, how is it structured? Weeks on weeks off? Alternating days? That makes a big difference in terms of what she can do.
Katala says
I got the impression that it was supposed to be weekends for dad during the school year + several weeks/all summer when school is out, and mom is balking on him having the kids for weeks on end during the summer. Which honestly I get why neither the mom nor the older teen wants.
Anonymous says
Visitation is a right of the child, not the parent. Dad can’t make a 17-year-old spend time with him if he doesn’t want to.
Anonymous says
If *she* the 17-year-old doesn’t want to.
Anonymous says
Sign her up for a college course.
Anonymous says
If the goal is to force the daughter to stay with her father and engage in activities all summer when she may want to relax and enjoy some time off from school obligations, that seems unlikely to help the family relationships.
I would ask her if she wants to take a summer class at a community college or art studio, work at any sort of local establishment (it is definitely not too late to find a summer job or volunteer opportunity), maybe take driver’s Ed if she doesn’t have her license, apply for a lifeguard training class, or do something completely different that she doesn’t normally have time for during the school year.
If she doesn’t want to do any of that, I would recognize that this is a difficult time in her life and she doesn’t seem to have the most stable or supportive family. It is much easier for her to have one home base and have one parent be mad at her instead of trying to balance both her mother and father’s wishes and priorities, and probably still disappointing one or both of them.
I would allow her to stay wherever she wants during the summer and invite her to meet up once a week for dinner, a walk, a trip to the bookstore. or some other activity that will allow them to maintain a relationship but not put too much pressure on her. I would not force her to do anything.
Anon says
If you believe the 17 year old is turning the other kids against him, and the 17 year old actively doesn’t want to be there, wouldn’t it be better for everyone to let the 17 year old do what she wants this summer (whether it’s staying at mom’s house or going to a sleepaway camp or whatever) and let dad have quality time with the younger kids? Even without divorce, there’s value in parents spending time with just a subset of their kids, so they can devote more attention to those kids.
I also agree with others that pretty much everything you’ve described is normal 17 year old girl behavior and you’re likely reading too much into it by assuming the mom is doing something horrible.
anon says
I am a stepmom (although my kids are younger), and my husband and his former wife have a difficulty relationship and had a bitter custody battle. My best advice is that a 17-year-old is virtually a legal adult, and regardless of the custody situation, can’t be “managed” in the way younger children can. Dad can impose normal standards around respectful behavior, but divorce or no divorce, he shouldn’t trying to program her summer activities. It’s not going to be too late to find a summer job or volunteer kid, and if he wants to require that she do that for part of the time that she’s with him, he can, but finding that should be on her.
At 17, whether a kid enjoys her summer really is up to her, and that’s the case whether there’s a divorce in play or not.
SC says
+1. I had a relatively stable home life as a teenager, and I wanted very little do with my parents. I spent 9 weeks of the summer that I was 17 as a camp counselor at a sleep-away camp. My dad drove there and back with me (and took a flight home and back to camp) so I didn’t have to do the 12-hour road trip alone. The summer before college, I just wanted to hang out with my friends and boyfriend. I lived at home, but I’m not sure I saw my parents–I have basically no memory of meaningfully interacting with them between my high school graduation and them driving me to college.
Anonymous says
+2 I had a very happy childhood with parents who are still married, but the summer I was 17 I went to do an internship in my grandmother’s city (and lived with her) because I was so eager to get away from my parents. I ended up having a lot of conflict with my grandmother, because even though I was objectively responsible for a teen, I was considerably more “wild” than my mom or her sister had been and she reacted by trying to keep me locked up whenever I wasn’t at work and I predictably rebelled against that. But that’s another story.
anne-on says
This. I spent the summer between senior year and college spending every waking moment I could with my friends, my boyfriend, at work, or preparing for college (pre-work, buying dorm stuff, etc.). If my parents had tried to force family togetherness on me it would not have gone well. They left me to my own devices (with limits around a curfew) and even took some time that summer to take their own adult trip where my brother and I were home alone.
SC says
Oh yeah! My parents took several adult trips that summer. I remember that during the first one, I locked myself out, the spare key was not where it usually was, and my parents weren’t answering their phones because they were at a wedding. I had to cross the street to the neighbors’ house and borrow a Yellow Pages, then call locksmiths until I found someone who wanted to come unlock the door on a Saturday afternoon.
The second trip, I guess I decided to sleep over at a friend’s house. My boyfriend was driving me to the friend’s house, and we got in a car accident on the interstate.
How my parents let me go to college, I will never know.
Anonymous says
This sounds like a terrible summer for all the kids. They all need to go to camp and have their own space.
Anonymous says
Babysitting, if she likes kids. Even in a 50/50 split as long as the times are regular or known in advance she could pick up a part time babysitting gig.
Anon says
What is your role in this situation? Honestly, I think you need to just step back and let the 17 year old be a 17 year old. Maybe the mom is bad mouthing him, but a 17 year old is old enough to pick up on the situation and decide for herself how she feels about either parent.
I know you say you’re just asking for activities, but a 17 year old is past the age where her dad should be scheduling activities for her.
Anonymous says
a million times this. The fact that the dad thinks the solution to 17 year old’s eyerolling is enforcing 50/50 custody and more family activities speaks volumes about how out of touch he is with his daughter.
Anon says
I think it’s reasonable for a parent to tell a 17 yo that they can’t just sit on their duff all summer. She needs to do something–college class, volunteer, work, whatever.
I also think the dad should lay off 50/50 visitation. She’s old enough to decide if she wants to see her dad. If he didn’t build a relationship with her when she was younger, that’s on him. You can keep blaming the mom for how the daughter feels, but that sounds super fishy.
If he wants to ask something of her, he should ask for a family dinner one night a week. Let her generally do her own thing and stay where she wants the rest of the time. She’s practically an adult.
Anonymous says
This is spot-on.
Anon at 11:55 says
That’s true, I think it’s fair to tell you she needs to get a job or volunteer, etc.
SC says
I think it’s reasonable to tell a 17 yo that. But I don’t see what this 17 yo’s father can do when she doesn’t want to live with him, and he doesn’t seem to have a lot of financial leverage (paying for her car, insurance, phone, college tuition, etc.). Since co-parenting doesn’t seem to be on the table, at this point, it’s pretty much up to the mom and the 17 yo.
Divorce is hard says
To start with, I think you need to recognize that you don’t have the full picture of this situation. I’m assuming that you’re the dad’s new partner and are probably only hearing one side of the story, which is understandable. But how do you know that the 17 year old is acting this way because she is “responsive to the mom’s alienating techniques” vs just close with her mom and does not like her dad at the moment?
Maybe her feelings toward her dad are justified, maybe they are just the product of her age and situation, but I am certain you are not helping by trying to diagnose her with a syndrome that may or may not even exist and which she may or may not even have.
Anon says
Dad needs to know that the court can’t order her to have a relationship with him or to let him into her life.
He’s also not entitled to be a part of her life just because he paid the mortgage and donated some genetic material. That’s not how this works.
He should start treating her as a nearly grown person with valid feelings about the divorce. So much disrespect come through in your post.
Anonymous says
The best course of action here is for you to dump this guy immediately. There are so many red flags:
– He has what sounds like at least four children from a previous relationship. Best-case scenario, he should be putting their needs before your relationship. What really seems to be happening is that he’s putting his own desires ahead of the kids’ needs.
– He does not have steady employment.
– He cannot provide a suitable living space for his children.
– He is spouting parental alienation theory, which is frequently used by abusers to exert control over their children and the children’s mothers.
– He is insisting on 50/50 parenting time against his child’s wishes, which can be a sign that the father is trying to get out of paying child support.
Anonymous says
I got sister vibes more than girlfriend vibes, but I’m really curious what OP’s relationship to the dad is!
Pogo says
I did not get the sense this was the girlfriend posting, for sure.
Anonanonanon says
I 100% got girlfriend-but-trying-to-sound-objective vibes
Aunt Jamesina says
If you are the dad’s significant other in this scenario, I think you mostly need to let him tackle this on his own. Sounds like a lot of drama with potential for a lot of fallout.
Anonymous says
Unless you are either not American or not female, I don’t see how you don’t have any experience to draw from here. This sounds like a very normal 17 year old girl not wanting to hang out with her dad and younger siblings all summer. The divorce is only pertinent because custody battle is making the dad think he is entitled to his daughter’s time because he’s Right. No surprise she’s acting out, and I doubt it’s because of anything the mom said or did.
Anonymous says
How many/what extracurriculars does your elem kiddo do (in normal times)?
My incoming 3rd grader has so much she wants to do. I can swing it financially and can do carpool to most things, but it seems very different than the 1-2 things I did as a kid.
Anonymous says
I am mom I have the day! As an 8 year old I wanted to do all the things and my mom was very clear that a) money does not grow on tress and b) she would not be spending all of her time driving me to stuff. We got 1 or 2 weekday activities depending on intensity and that’s it. And that’s what my kids get.
Anonymous says
My rule is at least 3 days a week of physical activity plus one artistic activity. Dance counts for both.
Anon says
IME that’s the age that kids usually get more selective about what they want to “specialize” in and activities start demanding more than one practice per week. So it’s not at all uncommon to have three or four days of activities on the books, but it would be slightly unusual to do four separate activities. Ages 4-7 are for trying a bunch of different things and seeing what sticks.
avocado says
This. Third grade was when sports and dance began to require multiple practices/classes and it became necessary to choose.
Anonymous says
OP here-exactly. She’s done gymnastics, soccer, tennis, lacrosse, basketball, acting/dance, and ballet/hip hop, plus Hebrew school.
She doesn’t want to stop any of them, but obviously something has to give as soccer, Hebrew school and tennis are 2x/week now.
Like I said, we know enough families that carpooling makes things possible. And she can do soccer in the fall/b-ball in winter/tennis or lax in spring but these sports have year round stuff well beyond normal “in season.” So it seems like she really needs to pick.
As an added bonus she gets an instrument this year at school ;).
Anon says
i mean i know people who in high school were on their school’s soccer teams in the fall, basketball in the winter and then lacrosse in the spring, with tennis done outside of school. not at the third grade level, but depending on the type of school she attends, being involved in the school play means you cant be involved in sports at the same time and visa versa.
unless she wants to be on the tennis team (and maybe she does), since tennis is more of an individual sport, there should be a way to keep that up once a week. something like soccer is trickier since it involves other people. i’d have her pick between gymnastics vs. acting/dance vs. ballet/hip hop – where i live their is a fall, winter and spring sessions, so maybe she does one thing for the fall session and chooses something else for the winter session, etc.
Anonymous says
I would not do more than one activity per day.
Anon says
My kid is younger but we view religious school as non-optional and don’t count it against her activity quota (which for my 3 year old is one weekday activity and one weekend activity at once). Our town is like 0.1% Jewish and most people have really strong social networks through church, so it’s really important to me and DH that our kid has that community with the handful of other Jewish kids in our city. I also know people who don’t count swimming lessons, because that’s for safety. We haven’t figured out how to actually fit swimming lessons in yet, because most of the pools in our area only have mid-day weekday lessons so it may have to wait until the post-K summer when we no longer have daycare.
anon says
I agree with this. We view religious school and music as non optional, so the kids got two activities. (But they’re not serious about anything, so that helps – like they love it, but I don’t have budding anything on my hands – I think it’s harder when they get serious about multiple things).
Anonymous says
Where we live, the YMCA and the JCC both provide daily swim lessons during summer day camp.
Anonymous says
This is too much. She needs one sport at a time (or dance) and either acting OR a musical instrument, maybe with religious school once a week on top of that. But if religious school has to be twice a week, I’d sub that for acting/musical instrument and just let her do one sport or dance. She can’t have it all. If you value religious instruction, you have to sacrifice something else or the entire family will be overextended.
Anonymous says
I would allow one sport at a time. She can specialize in one sport year-round or switch sports depending on the season, unless she wants to do a year-round sport like gymnastics. Drop theater during the school year because it’s time-consuming; she can go to theater day camp during the summer. Hebrew school and one musical instrument. No dance unless she chooses that in place of a sport.
The sport she chooses in third grade doesn’t have to be the sport she does through high school. Up until sixth or seventh grade, it’s pretty easy to switch from one ball sport to another or to pick up track or swimming. She will also be able to transition from gymnastics or dance into another sport, but it’s difficult to start either of those later on.
Now is the time to think about whether your family can handle the travel sports lifestyle. If not, steer her towards a non-travel league in a different sport every season. Don’t let her get on the path to travel sports and then pull the rug out from under her later. Also think about your other children. I have known several families where one child’s travel sport was prioritized above the other kids’ needs and activities, and it really stinks.
Anon says
+1 Our plan is one activity per kid per season, possibly two if the kid has a strong interest, the activities are drastically different, or it’s something required by a parent, like piano lessons. For young kids, having free time (and the chance to be bored) is more beneficial than anything they’ll learn in a formal lesson/activity.
Take a long view of your family and decide what is most important to you – I suppose if the answer is a varsity letter or a sports scholarship to college, devoting lots of time to sports now makes sense (and I don’t mean that to be snarky, if it reads that way!) My husband and I value family meals and time all together, so we are keeping our schedule open in the young years, as we know things will only get busier down the road.
Anonymous says
+1000 to your final paragraph. My parents prioritized travel hockey for my brother. My older sister couldn’t do any activities, and I only did dance because it was during the week and my grandparents always took me. EVERY Saturday/Sunday was all day at a hockey rink where I would play arcade games. Sometimes I would get to figure skate. Seriously. And my brother stopped playing hockey after high school lol. It’s one of my moms bigger regrets about parenting. This has made DH and I very anti-travel sports
gym mom says
Anon @ 1:24, no parent should invest in travel sports as a path to a college scholarship. If we invested the money we are spending on ordinary non-elite gymnastics in a LCOL area in a 529, we’d end up with more than enough to pay for four years of tuition at one of our state’s excellent public universities. No matter how talented the child, a scholarship is never guaranteed. Kids get injured, or lose their passion, or don’t have a coach with the right connections. Most kids who do get an offer don’t have many schools to choose from. A D1 scholarship athlete is there to play sports, not to get an education. Certain majors are off limits because labs, etc. conflict with practices and games.
Not that travel sports are inherently bad, but anyone who sets a goal of getting a college scholarship is setting their child up for likely disappointment.
Anon 1:24 says
Gym Mom, I’m the Anon and I agree with you – but I have family members that were banking on scholarships from a young age and totally gave their life to sports! It really doesn’t make sense to me, but neither does specializing in sports so early or committing to crazy practice schedules
gym mom says
We support the crazy practice schedule just because we think having an all-consuming passion is a great childhood experience. There was another activity for which she has more natural talent that I’d really hoped she’d choose, but she is her own person so we let her decide for herself.
anne-on says
This. We put our foot down around travel sports (and tbh my kid’s not sporty to begin with so it wasn’t a fight) but I am NOT about to give up weekends traveling to tournaments/meets when there is basically zero chance my kid will ever get college admissions/scholarships from these sports.
Anon says
If ages 4-7 are for trying and you can’t after that, I guess my kid is screwed having lived ages 4.75-6 during a pandemic with no group activities other than school. Better squeeze in 3 years of trying stuff into the one year left of ages appropriate for that.
Anonymous says
Yep. My 6 year old has done zero activities besides religious school which has been mostly zoom this year (ugh). Guess it’s too late for him to try anything ?
Anonymous says
It really is that way, though. Most sports don’t have once-a-week beginner classes past age 8 or 9.
anne-on says
This is sad but true. Our local soccer gym doesn’t have once a week beginner classes past age 6(!!) it is infuriating to me. Our town rec leagues have some ‘all ages/abilities welcome’ teams but not very many.
Anon Lawyer says
Don’t kids still sign up for a rec team in middle school or high school to try it out though? My friend’s kid was just talking about trying track at her middle school next year in 6th grade; they’re not requiring experience. I randomly signed up for water polo in high school and it was fun – we were a losing team and nobody really cared. I assumed not every sport at every school was competitive these days.
Anonymous says
Track and water polo are pretty easy to start in middle school or even high school if a kid is generally athletic. A middle schooler could probably catch up in tennis with a couple years of private lessons. But other sports just don’t offer beginner opportunities to older kids.
Anon says
so when i was a kid, i had an activity at least four days a week. my parents didn’t believe in sitting idly/their parents could not afford all of these activities when they were kids, so they thought my sister and i should do all the things. honestly, i was an introvert who probably would’ve enjoyed more down time at home, and I know my parents meant well, but I’ll probably take a different approach with my kids. I know that this is the way it is, but I hate how now by 3rd grade kids have to specialize – it’s absurd! that being said, i usually had piano one day, tennis one day, an art class one day, and gymnastics. in the winter i also did ice skating lessons. i say, let kiddo do what he/she wants if you can manage the logistics and afford it, but also build in some downtime
So Anon says
My kids can do one activity plus swimming classes. Anything more than that, and we all get fried. For my son, his one activity is weekly OT. My daughter goes between lacrosse, soccer, and field hockey.
That being said, the summer is when they are free to spend different weeks doing all the different things. A week of coding camp? Sure! A week of soccer followed by a week of lacrosse? Great! My daughter’s sleep away camp has all the activities, so she will get her fill then.
Spirograph says
The constraints for us are time and energy. My 6 year old turned down T-ball this spring saying she didn’t want to be over-scheduled and miss out on time to play with her neighbor friends! For my part, I refuse to do more than 3 weekdays with kid activities in the evening, and prefer no more than 2 weeknight activities for any individual kid, because that seems to increase crankiness (and homework battles for the oldest). So, each kid can pick one thing, or they can team up we can figure out which day there’s gymnastics or tennis class or whatever for each of them at the same time. During the season for older son’s sport, that’s the only thing he does since the “real” team is 1-2 weekdays and one weekend morning.
In the before times, preschool had swim lessons during the school day, as well as optional tennis, and the amazing after care program at elementary had activities built in and the kids got to choose each month from a slate of options: sports, art, music, dance, etc. I miss that.
Anon says
In normal times, just aftercare, despite me offering lots of options. My kid is happy just having time to putter. I’m happy to support my kid in just puttering. We live in an area known for over scheduling kids and it’s totally fine to do zero formal activities. We do engage with and support interests at home.
anonamommy says
Nothing like 90 degree weather to remind me that pregnancy permanently wrecked my temperature regulation and sweat glands. Ever since my kids were born (youngest is now 3), I have an embarrasingly high amount of crotch sweat (discharge and sweat both) and dread the warm weather. Has anyone found a good coping mechanism? Would period underwear help contain it more?
AnonATL says
So much commiseration. We had family adventure day at a state park yesterday. It was probably like 90, and even though we mostly stayed in the shade I chafed so badly around my bikini line from my cotton underwear. I have a few pair of “active” material underwear that seems to not get as uncomfortable. Like some of the Ex officio ones, but cheaper.
Anonymous says
Period underwear would probably just make it worse. I like quick-dry athletic undies plus cornstarch baby powder. And lots of showers and clothing changes.
KW says
Do you have a rec for those kind of undies? I think I need to try some. Thanks.
anne-on says
Lululemon has active wicking bikini briefs that I really like. They hold up well to my HIIT classes so I’d imagine they’d be good for a swampy weather day.
Anonymous says
Have you looked at Lume? It’s a cream deodorant for down there. And panty liners
LSC says
What do you do for elementary school teachers at the end of the year? This is our first year. I am accustomed to a cash gift/card for daycare teachers…Is that done in elementary school?
Anonymous says
At our school the PTA and/or class parent will do a collection for an end of year gift card – it’s a communal thing, with no names named.
anonymous says
My mom is a 2nd grade teacher. In her school, kids will get her gifts. Definitely got for a gift card as opposed to a trinket of some sort.
anon says
Can I do actual cash and a card or does it have to be a gift card? I’m not sure if cash is weird..?
Anonymous says
Cash is weird.
Anon says
I do a gift card for teachers, but I send a card with $20 cash for the bus driver and bus helper
Former teacher says
I used to teach high school in Illinois and public school employees are legally not allowed to collect gifts over a nominal amount. I wouldn’t be surprised if other states had similar guidelines. I would have felt extremely weird about cash. A nice card from the kid is (really! I mean it!) all I ever wanted. A small gift card to Target or the like is a nice bonus.
anon says
Nanny wants to take my 3yo (who can’t swim yet – we are working on it!) to someone’s house to hang by the pool. I generally trust her a lot but something about this makes me nervous. Should I let her do it? Would it be too crazy to not let her to it?
Anonymous says
If you’re uncomfortable with this, you’re entitled to say no. I personally would be OK with it, but I’d make sure the 3 year old has a swim vest and tell the nanny it needs to stay on at all times in the pool are.
If it makes you feel any better — accidental drownings at this age are almost always because the child accessed the pool while the adults in charge weren’t expecting him/her to be there. If the nanny is intentionally hanging out by the pool, I think it’s pretty safe.
anon says
thank you! is there a swim vest you would recommend?
anon says
It definitely depends on the nanny. If you trust her to watch the kid at the pool, then I would be ok with it. (I’ve had nannies that I was ok with and nannies that I wasn’t.). I think you have to be clear – eyes on child at all times. Make sure she can swim. Think about one of those monster puddle jumpers. Have her get CPR certified (it’s like $12 on the internet, apparently).
Anon says
I don’t think you’re crazy and would not have them go. Private pools are incredibly dangerous and you have to watch kids who can’t swim like a hawk. If you’re at a friend’s house it’s so easy to just get caught up in chatting with an adult and look away for a few seconds, which is all it takes for a kid to drown. We don’t have friends with pools (Midwest) but tbh I’m not even sure I’d trust myself to watch kiddo as closely as you need to at a backyard pool and it would be hard to have that level of trust in anyone else, especially someone who’s not a family member.
Anonymous says
This sounds like the nanny is hoping to relax by the pool with the other nanny while keeping half an eye on the kids. No way. Being around water with a 3-year-old requires constant vigilance and is exhausting.
A kid in my daughter’s swim class managed to fall into the pool unnoticed by the instructor who was 6 feet away working with another student. The parent had to jump in and fish him out.
Hmmmm says
This x 1000.
GCA says
I once had to fish my kid out of the pool while the instructor’s back was turned and instructor was working 1:1 with one of the other 3 kids in the preschool-age swim class. Kid had stood up at the edge of the pool, because what 3-year-old follows directions to stay put?, and tipped over & in. He was perfectly fine as I immediately jumped up from the parent seating area and grabbed him, but it was a lesson for everyone.
I trust our old nanny and sitters with the kids, but water safety is a whole different comfort level for me. It’s not unreasonable to tell the nanny that you’re not comfortable with this but it’s not a reflection on her capabilities.
Anon says
Just ask her to keep him in a Puddle Jumper and to put her phone away.
We made clear that the kids had to be out of the pool and sitting on the chaise with her if she needed to make a call or text, even if for just a second.
Anon says
Maybe I am more water-safety conscious, but my toddler is not allowed in the water without an adult right next to him. (Obviously, he always wears a Coast Guard approved life jacket, too.) The life jacket is not a substitute for a parent or nanny being right next to him/her in the pool.
Anon says
I should have included that rule. The nanny was required to at least be sitting on the edge of the pool with her feet in. The toddler was still in a Puddle Jumper. And no phone.
Anon says
Toddlers can drown in under 30 seconds. I would personally not be comfortable with this.
Anonymous says
Yes I literally need to be arms length from my kid. She’s not a risk taker but she’s still stepped in too deep or lost her balance and fallen over a ton.
Admitted Water Safety Freak says
I would not be okay with this — and you 100% would not be crazy for saying no. I am not normally this “type” of mom, but when it comes to water safety, things happen fast and can go wrong even with a responsible person with good intentions supervising.
In this case, you’re dealing with two factors that would make me uncomfortable: 1) a kid who can’t yet swim; and 2) a non-lifeguarded pool. Both of these would make me say no to this situation unless a parent were present.
In most situations, a nanny = essentially a parent, but I make an exception for water safety.
Anon says
These two factors also make me really uncomfortable, combined with that it seems like nanny wants to hang with another adult at the pool.
Also, I don’t use floaty-type devices in the pool because I don’t want my kids to get a false sense of water safety.
Anonymous says
No, I don’t trust anyone to supervise my kids around water other than myself and DH. This includes grandparents and family members.
Yes says
Same.
Anon says
Same, although I include my mom in the circle of trust because she’s incredibly trustworthy and I know she feels as strongly about this as I do. But my dad and in-laws are not permitted to supervise my kid around water on their own.
Anonymous says
Adding – this is because when my nephew was 4, my sister in law and mom were watching him at a pool with a lifeguard. No one noticed he had fallen in and the lifeguard had to grab and resuscitate him. So no they can’t take my kid to the pool!
AnotherAnon says
This goes for me too. My kid is not a risk taker and I can’t even relax by my own pool when he’s out there with me. Drowning is so common and difficult to catch in little kids. You’re perfectly reasonable in saying “sorry but I’m not comfortable with this.”
Anonymous says
No
IHeartBacon says
No. Trust your gut.
Pumping at work says
For those who pumped at work, how long did you keep it up? At some point, did you cut back to fewer pumps per day?
I’m pumping 3x a day and starting to wonder if it’s taking a bigger toll on me than I consciously realize. I’m not ready to wean completely and appreciate being able to breastfeed at night and on the weekends. But this is — a lot.
Anon says
I never pumped more than once/day. I had good supply so that was mostly enough for my large baby from 4-7 months or so. Then I stopped pumping completely, switched to using formula during the workday and kept nursing until she decided to wean herself just before turning 18 months. I gather I got lucky and it doesn’t work for everyone, but it can definitely work. I loved nursing but hated pumping and stopping pumping was really good for my mental health.
Spirograph says
How old is your baby? I never pumped more than twice during the work day and cut back to once a day around 7-8 months, iirc. I quit pumping at work at all around 9-10 months but still nursed at home for another couple months. My kids each self-weaned around a year.
There’s a lot of room between pumping 3x a day and weaning! Making your pumping schedule more manageable is an investment in nursing longer, if that’s important to you. Absolutely cut back if you need to.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Same here, roughly, for both of my kids. I pumped 3x a day for one week with my first, and never again. I did 2x a day for a few months, then 1x a day with formula supplements throughout the day, and morning and nighttime nursing. Quit pumping at around 9 months and did extra morning and nighttime sessions for a month or so longer for my first and until 1 year for my second.
Anon says
Eh a few months? For all three of my kids I quit pumping/nursing during the day and kept up morning and evening sessions much longer. I don’t think that option gets talked about enough!
GCA says
tl;dr: It’s not all or nothing, and you don’t *have* to pump 3x/ day; there are many ways to do it and still maintain a nursing relationship. In fact, allowing yourself to pump less and combo feed may enable you to extend the nursing relationship.
I went back to work when my 2nd kid was 3+ months. I started out pumping 3x/ workday and lasted about a week before I switched to 2x. Kept up 2x/ day till baby was 7-8 months. I had a couple of hectic work trips then and ended up pumping and dumping just enough to maintain a supply – so about once a workday, once before bed and once in the morning when I was away. (We combo fed and knew she would take 100% formula if I needed to). Supply came back (just enough; I was never an overproducer or anything) with no issue when I got home and could nurse on demand for a weekend or two. After that, I think I pumped 1-2x / workday depending on schedule until baby was about 12-13 months, at which point I quit pumping but continued to nurse at bedtime till she was 2.
Anonarama says
Everyone has great suggestions, but I want to be caveat that for some people (myself included) stopping pumping during the day meant that my supply completely shut down. I’d had issues with my supply at times, but this still came as a big shock to me when I stopped at about 6 months. Just something to consider.
Katala says
I stopped pumping at work at about 6 months as well, and we did continue some morning/evening/weekends for maybe 1-2 months after that. But baby was starting to be more active and wanting to know what big brother was doing and just generally didn’t have the patience for nursing. I’m sure my supply was also not what it used to be. He preferred getting a bottle that was faster and he could still be up in all the action. I BF’d just mornings and evenings with big brother until he was 18 months or so, so it really depends on you, the kid, and the situation. That said, I don’t regret stopping! Pumping at work was too hard on my at that point and kid 2 is perfectly healthy and happy.
Anon says
Yes – find what works for you and give yourself grace. My two experiences below as examples that illustrate – every woman, every baby is different. With both kids I combo fed as necessary.
With my first, back to work at 4 mo. Pumped 3x until about 6 mo, 2x until about 9 mo, 1x until 11 mo. Stopped pumping entirely at 11 mo. Weaned completely around 13 mo.
With kid #2, back to work at 5 mo. Not sure I ever pumped 3x – maybe a few weeks. 2x until 7 mo, 1x until 8 mo when I gave up. She weaned herself completely around 11 mo, and gave up bottles on her own two weeks later – real food was much more exciting.
Mary Moo Cow says
I pumped 3-4 times a day with my oldest, from the time I went back to work at 8 weeks old until she was about 9 months, because my supply steadily dropped. By the time we got to 6 months old and solids, I was still pumping 3-4 times a day just to make the new minimum for bottles. I petered out to about 2 pumps a day when she was about 9 months, and then 1 pump a day at 12 months until weaning at 15 months. With my youngest, I pumped 3 times a day from return to work at 3 months until 6 months, then 2 times a day until 10 months, and then just once a day until she decided she was done at 12 months. I wish I had given myself permission to combo feed earlier with my first. You’re right that it just is a lot. If you’re becoming aware that it’s taking a toll on you, then you’re probably ready to cut back.
Anonymous says
I’ve been back at work for a month and am pumping 3x a day still. It was overwhelming at first but it’s getting better and I’m glad I’m still doing it. Wanted to chime in since most people said they cut back. What’s been helpful for me is doing it still but cutting it short if Im busy etc. obviously you should feel empowered to stop or cut back if you want to! Most people I know stopped and I felt like the oddball actually but I’m going to keep going since I’m able to.
Anon says
I went from 3 to 2 around 5 months, from 2 – 1 around 8 months, and stopped pumping entirely at 10 months. Started combo feeding around 8 – 9 months to lessen the pressure on myself to entirely provide all drinks; I’m now down to nursing just at night, and so much happier since pumping is terrible.
Anon says
I pumped 3x a day from 5-9 months, then dropped to 2x for month 10 and 1x for month 11 and then stopped pumping in that month. She switched to cow’s milk at 11 months (with ped’s OK) and we nursed until around 17 months on mornings, nights and weekends. She definitely did a lot of reverse cycling from what I can remember.
Anonymous says
I’m back at work as of last week and have been doing 2X a day, which means baby gets 2 breastmilk bottles and then 1-2 formula bottles at daycare. I find that 3X a day is completely impossible to manage. I’d rather work efficiently and pick up the baby as early as possible, so she can feed with me before dinner. My supply kept pace this past weekend, so I’m hoping that holds. But if she ends up getting a bottle of formula once a day, 7 days a week, that’s perfectly fine.
Mrs. Jones says
It is a lot. I think I pumped twice a day. I hated it. It lasted till son was 7 months old and then I couldn’t take it anymore and quit BF-ing.
Pogo says
Do whatever feels right to you. I only had to pump 2x/day with my first after about a month back at work, and then totally cut out pumping at work around 10mos. I don’t remember having much drama about it.
With this baby, I tried doing 2x a few times and had a couple issues – 1) clogs and mastitis (no thank you) and 2) not making enough milk in 2 sessions (can always supplement, but I felt weirdly protective of my milk and wanted to make enough even though rationally I know it is fine!).
If you feel physically and emotionally fine cutting back, do it! I think if I can physically cut back I will start doing that (LO is almost 9mos). I agree that 3x/day is too much.
Anonymous says
DD’s teacher mentioned to me today that DD plays a lot with one other kid and DD has also been talking about this kid a lot. Is it fair to email the teacher to ask her for the parents’ contact info? I don’t see the parents at school and we can’t send in a written note due to covid restrictions. I hate the idea that I’m creating more work for over-worked teachers but I don’t see how to get these parents contact info (other than Facebook stalking, which seems creepy).
Anon says
The teacher likely won’t give that out, but if you send in a note with your contact info, you can ask the teacher to pass it on to the other parent.
If your kid is old enough, give her a note to give to her friend with your info, asking her to tell her mom to text you. Maybe the friend will also know her mom’s phone number and you can text first.
But also, don’t discount the Facebook stalk. Maybe it’s creepy but also this is a pandemic and everyone understands. I’m in the local mom’s group and stalked that group to find parents of my K son’s friends, then messaged them that way. They were actually super appreciative I had reached out because our name is hard to say and spell so they couldn’t figure out my son’s last name to look ME up.
Anonymous says
It might be easier for the teacher (or more permissable) if you ask her to pass on your contact info to the other family.