We’re (hopefully) almost done potty training — once our youngest started (mostly) using the toilet, we switched from pull-ups to training pants like these.
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A six-pack of Hanes’ Toddler Training Briefs is $11.99 at Target. They’re available in 2T–3T and 4T.
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Anon says
People with older kids – does your kiddo have a bedtime and what is it?
Anon says
Mine is only 5 so not sure if that counts as older, but we don’t do set bedtime and haven’t for about a year. We’re off duty at 7 pm except for bedtime story and tucking in, so she plays by herself from 7 until whenever she decides to go to bed. It’s almost always between 7:30-8. I have a very strong-willed kid and bedtime battles were lasting until 10 pm or later. Giving her control has actually resulted in much earlier bedtimes on average. It’s like the reverse psychology of our childhoods, I guess?
Anon says
This is also what we do with our 5 year old. We say good night between 7:00 – 7:30 and she plays or colors for a little while until she turns out out her light. Sometimes it takes 15 minutes, sometimes 45 minutes, but it works for us and for her.
GCA says
What counts as older? Mine are 4.5 and almost 8 and pretty early risers and short sleepers (kid 1 more than kid 2) so I kind of work backwards from there. They’re likely to get up before 6 so they’d better be in bed at 8!
Boston Legal Eagle says
Same here. Kids are 4.5 and almost 7, and they’re up no later than 6am. So both are in bed and kissed goodnight by 7:30pm – younger kid falls asleep quicker, older kid is right behind though.
Mary Moo Cow says
Mine are 7.5 and 5.5 and bedtime routine starts at 7:30 for bath/shower, then reading. After a parent reads aloud, kids can keep their lights on until 8:15 or 8:30 on a non-school night.
Anon says
Mine are 7 + 5. They get tucked in at 8:30. They are allowed to stay up and read or look at books in bed. My oldest was staying up too late and not getting enough sleep, so I often tell him it’s lights out by 9PM-ish, later if it’s the weekend, earlier if he’s been extra tired. We have to wake them up at 7:30 during the week. they’ll usually both sleep until 8:30 on Saturdays. Sundays we wake them at 8 for church.
AwayEmily says
7 and 5, kissed goodnight/lights out at 7:30, though they are allowed to chat/read for 15 minutes. The 5yo tends to actually sleep from about 7:45 – 6, and the 7yo from 8 – 6:45.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Our kids are twins (though no third baby here!!) – how did you get your older one to wake up at 6:45?! I’m still waiting for mine to “sleep in.”
AwayEmily says
It kind of magically happened around six months ago. tbh I think a big part of it was her brother developing enough self-control to not wake her up in the morning.
DLC says
Do you mean a formal “lights out” time? Or a ballpark of when they go to bed?
For us, we have ballparks:
11 year old- anywhere between 9:00p and 9:45pm.
6 year old and 3.5 year old- 8:30/9:00p
So Anon says
My oldest (12) is a morning kid, so he goes to bed by 8:30 and is up between 5 and 6. My youngest (9) is my night owl, so she goes to bed around 9 and wakes up around 7.
SpringSprung says
I have truly older…14 and 11. We all head upstairs between 9:30-10 and electronics go in my room. Then they can stay up reading or whatever they want quietly in their room til they fall asleep. They both have Alexa’s to listen to music but they turn off at 10:15.
Anonymous says
10 year old, bedtime is 9. He often wakes up before 7. In the summer and on vacation we sometimes go later. I think at camp he was going to sleep closer to 10 and waking up later. But I need to go to bed around 10 so I’d rather get him asleep earlier.
Anon says
Mine (10 and 8) have to get up at 6am to be ready for the bus, so they have to be upstairs with no screens by 8-8:30 and then usually read in bed until about 9.
Artemis says
7 year old: 8:30 pm
10 year old: 9:00 pm
13 year old: 9:30 pm
This is for school nights (lights out) and we’re reasonably strict about it as on school mornings I have to wake them all up at 7–they are never already out of bed, haha.
It also helps with staggering bathroom usage and adapting to evening activity schedules.
Weekends are much more of a free for all than they used to be, especially comparatively for my 7 year old. But if 7 stays up late, we try to let 10 and 13 at least stay up a bit later than her so it’s “fair” unless we have something really big/early the next weekend day.
Spirograph says
We aim for lights out between 8 and 8:30 on school nights for my 6,8 and 10 year olds, but the older two each have a kindle and often stay up and read for at least a half hour longer. They get up ~7:30
Anon says
Our kids have to get up pretty early, so our bedtimes were as follows:
8:00 for Kindergarten – 3rd grade.
8:30 for 4th
9:00 for 5th and 6th grade, and then an official bedtime fizzled out sometime during 6th grade and they went to bed when they were ready, but if they were still up by 9:45 we tell them to go to bed.
They both play sports year round, play pretty hard at recess or on the playground after school, and their school is pretty homework heavy so they are TIRED.
Anon says
My 5YO kindergartener is supposed to go to bed between 8PM and 9PM, but this week with the time change she has been awake (and repeatedly popping out of bed) until 10, 11 or midnight, which is, not delightful. She’s also learned to read the clocks and so my window of stating it’s time for bedtime at 7:30 on days where she is wiped and having her cooperate in blissful ignorance is over. During the week I like to try and get her in for a nightly shower by 8 or 8:30 (not always successful) and on weekends we either push for afternoon soaking baths or shower by 9 at the latest. I wake her up (she is not a morning person) at 7:45 or 8AM for school, and on weekends she usually wakes up between 8 and 9AM.
Anonymous says
My 10 year old has to be up and make the bus by 7:15 with breakfast, hair and teeth done. I don’t set an exact bedtime, but she’s in bed by 8:30 and usually asleep by 9. Sometimes 9:30 but never more than a few nights in a row.
No screens after 7:30 unless it is for a very specific purpose (eg “let me quickly call a friend and see what she’s wearing tomorrow”).
She plays a lot of sports during the week that end late (7:30/8) (in spring it’s lax and softball; she has a practice every night plus weekend games; winter she had 2 nights of bball practice /game and we ski weekends) so is often pretty pooped.
contract jobs says
Has anyone gone part time (could be legal or not) using one of those contractor companies, ie Axiom or something similar and what was the experience like? I’m a senior transactional attorney at a mid size place on flex-time but I’ve been asked spearhead the diversity group which is sucking up time (I’m the most senior POC and I wasn’t able to say no). Also, the unpredictability of deal flow is getting hard to keep up with. My kids are 3 and 6 (w/ high needs) and they just need me. I’d like at some point to be able to return to my (slow) partner-track path but it’s not critical.
Anonymous says
Try harder to say no. You’re considering giving up a real career over non billable optional work. That is bonkers.
Anon says
Can you request a few non-POC people to assist you running the diversity group? It’s not very inclusive to expect POC to do additional work to prove they are valuable to the company. Ask for non-POC to drive the actual work parts, so it’s your voice being heard but they’re doing the work to make it happen.
Anon says
This.
Pogo says
this. I appreciate women and POC leaders participating in these initiatives for visibility, but the actual work should be delegated. White men can plan a seminar on diverse hiring panels and candidate slates just as well as a WOC can.
AwayEmily says
Anyone want to share some positive stories about traveling in Europe with kids? Going this summer with a 7, 5, and 15mo and am feeling stressed (my ideal vacation is a week relaxing in the Adirondacks, not going to Europe…but this has been a dream of my husband’s for awhile and we had an opportunity fall into our laps). At this point I don’t need specific travel tips (tho I will definitely seek those out down the road!); I just want some happy stories. I feel like many of you amazing people do this type of thing regularly and have found it really rewarding — I would love some of that positive energy right now!
Anonymous says
It’s great. European cities are walkable and pleasant. They have beautiful parks and gardens. Everywhere sells ice cream and French fries. If you forget something it turns out matters they have stores.
Anon says
Whatever snafu you could help with your kids while traveling, you could also have at home. They can throw tantrums or have potty accidents anywhere. Seeing the world will be a fabulous experience for all of you and you won’t remember the hard bits when you get home. Europe is one of the best places to go too because it’s just so dang easy to get around. The older I get, the more important it is for me to get off the couch and make some memories. That colors a lot of my advice.
Anon says
AwayEmily, I have ALWAYS appreciated your comments and thoughtful perspective to this board, and I have no doubt this will be an amazing experience for your family. My family’s happy place is also (literally) a favorite spot in the Adirondacks for a week, but our, hands down, happiest family memories are extremely adventurous, far away bonkers trips. The bottom line is that we have definitely had hard moments (usually while traveling), but we have never, ever, ever regretted a big trip. These big trips bring our family together in completely unexpected ways (united over new food or completing a hard adventure), and my kids have always risen to the occasion (and we’ve put them through some tough trips to the backcountry in foreign countries). Eight months after our last trip, and the kids don’t remember the posh hotel we stayed in – but we still get essays home from school about some of the more “adventurous” spots we have traveled to.
The biggest tip I have is to prep them ahead of time with a very clear understanding of what is to come, and very clearly communicating your expectations to them in a quiet moment ahead of whatever feels like a tough situation for your family (i.e., telling my very picky eaters that the only food available is what we can buy locally and pack in, so you have to eat whatever is put in front of you to fuel your body – worked with everyone from 2 years to 7 years).
We also use the momentum from the last trip to fuel the next one, and are looking ahead to a big trip this summer. I feel so encouraged by remembering my kids come together last year to prepare me for the next big trip we have planned (kids were 7, 5, and 2 last year, so 8, 6, and 3 this year). And knowing that the hard moments won’t last (I had an epic meltdown on a ferry and yelled at the kids last year – on my child’s birthday….but we all rallied….)
So Anon says
Stay Tuned! I’m headed to Ireland over spring break with my 9 and 12 year old. We will be driving around the country, and I’m really looking forward to it! Last April, we did the National Parks in Utah and had an absolute blast. For what its worth, my mom (also a single parent) started taking my sister and me to Europe when we were little (5 and 8). I have the best memories from those trips, and we kept traveling as I got older. That gave me immense confidence to navigate abroad and at home. So worth it.
Anonymous says
I’ve been to Europe twice with kids (Paris + south of France, and Cascais + Lisbon) and had fantastic trips. Going with kids forced us to slow down and enjoy the scenery; we loved walking to coffee shops and then hanging at a neighborhood playground for a bit, and slowly strolling one neighborhood each day. Everyone we met was happy to see our kids (particular kudos to the Parisian waiter who saw my 2 year old falling off a chair at a restaurant and swooped in to soothe him before I even got up from my bench seat, and the farmer’s market vendor in Nice who held him and fed him her produce while I fumbled with Euros to pay for my food). My kids learned to say “Obrigado, yo!” as thank you in Portugal and my seven year old now enjoys telling people he can speak five languages because he can say “hello” in English, Spanish, French, Portuguese, and Chinese (Chinese is not from travel– my husband taught him). Gelato every day! My kids also bawled driving back across the border from Canada to the U.S. because they loved Montreal so much. I can’t wait to get back to Europe now that mine are a bit older (haven’t gone since oldest was 4), but prices are a bit prohibitive right now. You’ll have a great time!
Anon says
+1000 to gelato every day and enjoying the slower pace of travel. I actually find travel with just my husband kind of stressful now because I’m used to the slower pace with kids.
Mary Moo Cow says
My boss just spent 30 minutes with me reminiscing about his magical trip to Vienna with his 6 year old. It does happen! I think it is something in the mindset, like, instead of thinking “I’m a mom travelling with kids, this is not a vacation,” and more of “family adventure and flexibility,” you’ll have a better time.
Anon says
I actually really agree with this. I have a friend who approaches every trip, local or international or otherwise, as a “train wreck waiting to happen” or a “setback for nap schedule” and so on. She takes away the positive anticipation of the trip and also much of the enjoyment while on the trip. Luckily, she has realized it’s a problem and is working on it. Mindset is everything for life’s problems.
Runner says
We are headed to Barcelona this August with my 4 year olds…who I am telling myself will be “almost five” when we get there so that I can tell myself they’ll have grown out of all their…errr quirks?
I’m using the time before to sort of actively parent again — reading some parenting books, resetting some of my behavior with respect to the pet peeves I have. I’ve also gotten them some kids books about Barcelona and I’m going to find some Catalan instruction books or audio or whatever. Kind of make it a “camp” for them sometime this summer. Totally overkill but for me it is helping me get excited and focused on the “adventure” part of it. We also got an Airbnb that is walking distance to the beach so when I get worried I tell myself “if nothing else, if they hate the beach, husband and I will trade off being in the house with them with screen time and each get an hour of beach a day,” which is way better than what I get at home lol. And honestly I also just feel like this is such a treat for us, so even anticipating it (even if it will go badly, which it could!), I am getting something out of it now. And, I’m going to bring a lot of melatonin. :)
Anon says
I’m in Portugal now with a 5 year old. This is her sixth European country. It will be great! The 5 and 7 year olds will be a breeze. 15 months is a harder age but not as hard as 2-3 in my opinion so you picked a good time to go. Some of my favorite memories are our trips to Europe. It’s so fun watching kids explore new cultures, languages and food (and I have a crazy picky eater). There are definitely hard moments (on this trip my kid spent our first 24 hours in Europe projectile vomiting due to a stomach bug) but I’ve never come close to regretting a trip. Agree attitude counts for a lot. Don’t assume it will be relaxing but do saune that it will be fun, and it will.
Anon says
I loved traveling before having kids and love traveling with my kids. But its different. Just make sure your husband is ready to take a trip with kids, not the trip he would take without kids. Its successful because we take a slower schedule. We prioritize one thing a day. We take time to stop at parks. We don’t eat at the fancy late night restaurants we would be eating in if we were traveling without our kids. I love watching my older kid (younger one is too young to talk) share their observations about the place we are traveling to. It’s rarely things I would notice. I love listening to them make connections months later when we get home from the trips.
Please reach out when you want tips – I have a lot of things I do to make traveling successful for my family.
NYCer says
+1 to all of this. We have had great trips with our kids in Europe, but it is really helpful to go in with the mindset that it will be a very different trip you took pre-kids.
Anonymous says
It’s the best! We go every year because DH’s family is there but I always try and tack on a few days somewhere else. So fun and laid back and safe. We tend to stay away from museums and big cities except for key landmarks (Big Ben/tower bridge in London, Leaning Tower in Pisa and Eiffel Tower in Paris have been hits so far).
Like my kids have been to Italy 4 times but have never been to Rome except to fly in/out but they adore the flamingos and the Maremma National Park and have taught themselves to say ‘extra scoop please’ in Italian for gelato stops in small towns – literally cannot turn my back. Still won’t tell how they figured it out. I think it was my oldest using siri and google translate app on her ipad and she taught the other two. Plot the best playgrounds so you can relax and enjoy an ice cream while the kids play and make friends.
Post back later with which countries you are visiting as I’m sure lots of people will have ideas.
Anonymous says
Q different poster, but I am curious as to how soon we can take our baby to Paris! We have done a special couple’s trip, and we noticed how child friendly it seemed. Very content to do outdoor spaces and just eat. How do restaurants and high chairs work? What age have you all done with a baby in Paris and what age range would you recommend?
Thank you!
Anon says
I took a 15 month old to Paris. It was by far our worst family trip to Europe, but the age was probably a big factor – due to the pandemic our other Europe trips were at ages 3+ when kids are easier and more manageable. I do personally feel that big cities aren’t the best destinations with little kids. It might be ok if you’ve been to Paris before and are just trying to hang out and soak up the city, but I think it could be kind of stressful trying to do all the tourist stuff with a baby that age. Other than Paris, our family trips have been to small cities (Seville, Florence) or coastal areas like Mallorca or the Algarve and I personally find those places way more little kids friendly than Paris but YMMV. If I were set on France, I’d do a couple days in Paris but then head to a more rural region like Provence or the Loire Valley.
A couple things that were specifically challenging with a baby in Paris: We had a hard time finding restaurants open before 7 pm (fwiw we didn’t have this issue at all on several trips to Spain, despite Spain’s reputation for late dining). The subways mostly don’t have elevators or ramps, so getting around with a stroller can be a real challenge. I also didn’t find people in Paris particularly nice or welcoming to kids, at least not compared to the people in Italy, Spain and Portugal, but we haven’t gone to big cities like Madrid or Rome so it isn’t an apples to apples comparison. I think people in big cities are probably less warm in general.
Anonymous says
I find 6-12 months is a great age especially if they like baby carriers. 12-36 months is tough because they want to walk more but can’t wander as much. At that age we generally hung out in small towns or national parks, Austrian or German family focused hotels with childcare and spas, or farm stays in Italy (agrictourismo). 3-8 years is a fun age for towers and castles and stuff where you don’t need to know a bunch of history to find something interesting. 8-12 yrs I try to cater to their individual interests – like a visit to the Royal Mews in London for my horse obsessed oldest. Or an overnight train ride instead of a flight between two cities for my train obsessed middle kid.
Anon says
In a lot of ways infants are definitely easier to travel with than toddlers. They’re portable, don’t complain if you want to do something “boring” and you don’t have to worry about them e.g., darting into traffic. But the exception to that (at least for me) is long flights and crossing time zones. We took a 9 month old to Europe and she didn’t sleep a wink. I think the plane ride was just too overstimulating. Age 2 is in many ways a harder age for travel but they have more language and there’s more ability to communicate that it’s nighttime and they should be sleeping. Whether or not they listen is a different story 😉
AwayEmily says
You all are the best. I feel so much more positive and excited after reading these. I will 1000% be back with so many more specific questions (we are going to France!) but in the meantime I am pasting all of these into a Google doc so I can reread them whenever I want to stop being such a stressball and remember to embrace the opportunity.
Isabella says
Has anyone done a toddler activity over zoom? I’m specifically considering Music Together, which is formatted to have hands-on parent even in person. It sounds crazy to try zoom, but there’s nothing local and I’m bored…
Spirograph says
*shudder* I only did this in the early days of the pandemic, when my youngest was 3. Toddlers and zoom don’t mix, IMO. What’s your goal? If you want a structured activity to do with your kid, maybe check out a subscription box. If you want social interaction, just chat people up on the playground. Zoom with toddlers is a cluster. Maybe people have figured it out by now, but any zoom with kids that doesn’t include force muting all the participants gives me a headache.
Anonymous says
I’m a big fan of Music Together, and during COVID we did zoom music together class, but only when it was too gross outside to meet in person outside. Even though we knew the teacher, it was always not nearly as enjoyable as being in person. However, if there are no other options, it could be great for you and your child. I’d also look into library story time as another option.
Anon says
Yes in 2020 and it didn’t work at all. Even now at 5 my kid struggles with Zoom. I would not do it.
Anonymous says
Also did this once in early covid. My kid was 6 mos (free gift class because the teacher was a friend of my parents’) and probably the only kid who really enjoyed it and paid attention. The toddlers were just running around trying to turn everything into a drum (which, to be fair, is one of my now-toddler’s favorite activities).
R says
I did Music Together over zoom for over a year during covid and it was great! My son was 7 months old at the start and about 21 months by the time we stopped. Honestly, it was as much for me as for him–even virtually, the structure of the class forced me to enjoy spending time with him without distractions, and it was fun to sing and be silly once a week. I definitely spent a lot of time chasing him as he crawled/ran away from the computer, but the teachers expect that and tell you it’s not important for the kids to be watching the screen closely anyway. You won’t get the social aspect of an in-person activity, but if there aren’t in-person classes near you and you’re just looking for something fun to do with your kid, I’d recommend it!
Anon says
Nothing local? I doubt this!
Have you checked the rec centers? Library? Nature Centers? Yoga places?
I mean we spend the summer at a rural cabin and I am able to find weekly story time, a balance bike drop in, and a forest friends nature hang out weekly. I am sure there is something in person. Zoom toddler stuff failed for us miserably.
Isabella says
I should have specified I need evenings or weekends when I’m off work. The local libraries all close at 5 and do their storytimes on weekday mornings. Working moms are not much considered around here. So not nothing, just nothing we can do.
GCA says
How old is your child? If they’re with a caregiver all day (whether daycare, family, nanny etc) could that caregiver do some of that with them? Daycares will often plan art, music, etc activities even for the littlest kids, while a nanny could drive kid to the library for that sort of thing.
Or, is this specifically for you to bond with baby? If so, I wouldn’t worry about a structured activity – all they really need is snuggles, play, feeding and reading.
Liza says
Rather than pay for an activity, in your shoes, I would try an interactive Youtube video. I can’t imagine it’s all that different.
Isabella says
Thanks for the testimonials everyone!
Fertility Specialist? says
Trying to decide whether to see a fertility specialist now or wait a few more months. I’m 35, TTC #2 for about 7 months. Took about 6 months for #1. OB isn’t concerned. Any advice?
anon says
I’m deep in to fertility treatments at the moment so take it with a grain of salt I guess given my lens, but it could take you 60 days to even get your first appointment so I say why not.
Two things that helped me push this along, combined with a very supportive OB: (1) I did a lot of home opk’s and recorded/shared the results (shocker: I wasn’t ovulating ever…), and (2) tracked my cycles to the day for many in a row. That data plus the blood panel my OB ordered fast tracked me to an RE at a relatively young age (33).
TheElms says
I would make the appointment now. Often there will be a wait to get an appointment and the initial lab work has to be timed with your cycle so you could be looking as at much as 3 months before you even have the appointment/results of lab work to know if there is a concern. If you get pregnant before you have the appointment you can always cancel.
I was a bit older than you but I got pregnant with #1 the first month we tried, (when I was 36) and then after 6 months of trying for number 2 I made the fertility specialist appointment. I’d heard that fertility really starts to drop off dramatically at 38 and I was 38 so I didn’t want to wait. My numbers were OK from the initial lab work and I ended up getting pregnant the month I had an HSG (a lot of people do) and had number 2 at 39. I also really wanted to have both kids before 40 if possible because my understanding is that the risks of pregnancy start to really multiply after 40 (not that you can’t have a perfectly healthy pregnancy / baby after 40, but statistically it is less likely).
anon says
I would do it, if you are doing some form of fertility tracking, having s*x in the right window, and not getting pregnant. The diagnostic process with a reproductive endocrinologist takes a long time bc a lot of tests can only be done a specific points in your cycle. Go ahead and get on the schedule. If you’re not doing all that, I would do that for a few months before seeing a specialist.
OOO says
Even though you are within the normal window for TTC, it wouldn’t hurt to see a reproductive endocrinologist to identify and address any issues
Anon says
Only you can answer what’s right for you, but for me I’d be going ahead. With kid 1, my OB sent me to a specialist at 6 months – apparently that’s now the norm at least for OBs at academic hospitals for people timing things properly (I’m under 35). If interventions are needed, it can take a while to get there because lots of “simple” things like basic imaging, bloodwork are needed first and you often only can do one a cycle because of when in the cycle each check needs to happen. So once you start down the path, it can be a long time before it feels like things are actually going to help.
Anon says
Start now, what’s the harm? You get pregnant soon, you cancel the rest of the appointments.
So Anon says
I agree with the others to go ahead and schedule an appointment. If you happen to get pregnant in the interim, that is fantastic. If not, you will be in the right place. From my experience, what is considered ok for a “normal” OB is much broader than what a RE considers optimal to conceive.
Fertility Specialist? says
These are great points, thanks everyone! I scheduled an appointment. Good luck to anon at 11:12am and anyone else TTC :)
Anonymous says
FWIW, for women 35+, my insurance will cover fertility-related diagnostic stuff after 6 mos of TTC without getting pregnant, and it’s pretty common in my area for OBs to refer someone to a specialist at the 6-month mark.
Anon says
I’m super impatient and went after a few months. They didn’t mind. Turns out I had a blocked tube.
Anonymous says
Call now. You’ll probably have to wait two months for an appointment anyway.
Anonymous says
Just that when I was 29 it took me 9 months, when I was 32 it took me 6 months and when I was 35 it took one try.
anon says
What’s the protocol for shared toys at a library or other group area? Our local library has a wonderful children’s section and I like bringing my 16 month old. Yesterday a little boy, maybe 3-3.5, dumped out the bin of toy cars. There were maybe 20 cars. My daughter was interested in them and took one to play with. Older boy was very upset because she took his car.
Should I have prevented her from taking a car and asked him if she could play with one of the cars? What if he had said no? Is the protocol that the kid who dumps out all the toys gets to play with all of them? Technically they’re not his but I don’t know if a 3 year old understands that. My daughter only has about 5 words so she can’t “use her words.”
Anonymous says
No, chill. This is how toddlers are: learning to share is hard. You didn’t do anything wrong.
AwayEmily says
The protocol is to largely ignore the kids unless someone is getting hurt or in serious distress. And maybe also to exchange a smile with the other parent to let them know that you are a fellow passenger on the “this is all fine, kids are being kids” train.
Anon says
Unless she took it out of his hand (or he was clearly playing with that one car), I wouldn’t have interfered, and if I were the parent of the boy I would have redirected him. These are for sharing or whatever.
Anon says
In Germany, it’s considered bad form for one kid to complain/try to take away a toy from another kid in the name of “sharing.” Parents will gently reprimand their kids and say “you can’t use that right now. Susan is using it. You can find another toy.” In the U.S., it seems much more common for parents to say “Joe wants to use your toy, you should share it with him.” I prefer the German approach, especially when raising girls.
anon says
I see that point but don’t think it applies in a scenario where there are 19 other cars for the boy to play with.
Anonymous says
It totally applies. There was a bin of 20 cars. Girl chose one car. Boy demanded that she give it to him. She doesn’t have to.
anon says
It sound like a German parent would have told the little girl that “Boy is playing with that right now. You can’t have it. Find another toy.”
Anonymous says
To me it sounds like the opposite–the German parent would have told the boy “Girl is playing with that right now. Pick another car.”
Anon says
Yep. I think a German parent would have told the boy that that toy was already in use. Just because the boy was the one to dump out 20 trucks doesn’t mean he can play with all of them at once.
Liza says
Huh, no, there aren’t hard and fast rules around this stuff, navigating it is part of how kids learn. It doesn’t sound like you needed to intervene at all, but if you felt like you did, in your shoes I’d probably have just gently redirected my child, “Oh no, it looks like he wants to play with that car right now, why don’t we go look at the [whatever].”
Liza says
To be clear: not because your child was wrong to pick up the car because he had some implicit claim over them, but because if a child is getting irrationally upset and throwing a fit, I prefer to teach my children not to engage.
Anonymous says
I prefer to teach my children not to give in to irrational demands from bullies.
Liza says
An upset 3 year old is not a “bully”. They’re a toddler.
Anon says
Yeah good grief! We’re labeling 3 year olds as bullies now?! All 3 year olds are selfish. That’s part of being 3.
Anon says
I never knew what to do in this situation either, and I have the additional awkwardness of having an only child so I feel like people are hyper aware when my kid doesn’t share well and make it part of her personality vs normal toddler behavior. I generally followed our daycare rules, which are that you don’t take something out of someone’s hands, but if the toy is on the ground not being played with another kid can pick it up but should eventually give the original kid a turn if they ask.
Fwiw my kid didn’t do much toddler playgroup because of Covid but the one time she did go somewhere she hit another kid on the head, so if this toy thing is your biggest issue I’d say you’re doing well… (she’s 5 now and interacts with other kids just fine, although the family of the hit-ee clearly still dislikes us…)
Anon says
Would you send your kids to Catholic school if you’re not Catholic?
I’m really torn here – I am unimpressed with the public schools in my area, they’re ranked well but in the research I’ve done they’re not what I’m looking for in a school. There are two private schools we’ve visited that I really liked (including my alma mater), but they’re very expensive. The local Catholic school seems like it might be a good compromise – it’s more similar to the private school than the public but it’s significantly cheaper.
We are lax Episcopalians, so the Christian aspect of a Catholic school doesn’t bother me. I actually went to an Episcopalian school (because it was a good academic school, not because my parents were so gung ho on Episcopalian education) so I’m very used to the idea of religion class and chapel in school.
However, I have a lot of concerns about the Catholic Church and it’s teachings and track record. I also was often the only non-Catholic in my social circles growing up (Catholic dad married Lutheran mom, they compromised on Episcopalianism, but half of my extended family, all of our family friends, and most kids in my neighborhood and grade school were Catholic) and I often felt othered by not being Catholic.
I have a friend with a kid at the Catholic school (she’s very Catholic) and she has only great things to say about it. She also says that there’s a notable non-Catholic population. It’s still majority Catholic, but it’s not ONLY Catholic the way that Catholic schools used to be.
I like that the Catholic school is both smaller than the local public and that the classes are smaller too. In reviewing the curriculum of both schools, the Catholic school curriculum seems more in line with what I’m looking for. I like that there’s a focus on more than just the academics (it seems like there’s a focus on character development, they talk a lot about values that are both religious and non-religious). I like that it is a tight knit community. It’s walking distance from our house, which is also very nice.
I don’t really have concerns with the school itself, but obviously have concerns with the Catholic Church. I would like to believe that the abuse scandals are over, I don’t know that. We’re very liberal and accepting of all, and the church is not. I don’t like that there are no women priests, I don’t want my daughter to feel like she can’t do something just because she’s a girl. We are vocal LGBT allies and pro-choice. And, as an Episcopalian, I really do believe that Jesus is accepting of more than the Catholic Church accepts. It’s almost antithetical to my Episcopal faith. I guess I could counteract this by involving my kids more in the Episcopal Church (currently we go 1x a month and they don’t do Sunday school) so they see a Christian tradition that is more accepting.
I also do worry about my kids feeling left out. If everyone else is preparing for their First Reconciliation or First Holy Communion and they’re not, will they feel left out? Do Catholic kids still tell other Christian kids they’re not real Christians (this happened to me growing up at an Episcopal school!)?
As the world becomes more and more secular, I am curious to see how much this has changed and will continue to change? I’d imagine more families attending Catholic school are C&E people than in the past?
FWIW, I’m in a heavily Irish-Catholic area so culturally things feel Catholic. Obviously less so than they did when I was growing up, but it still more so than other areas.
Liza says
Absolutely not. Please review these resources on the Catholic stance on LGBT issues (https://www.usccb.org/committees/laity-marriage-family-life-youth/homosexuality) and abortion (https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/abortion/respect-for-unborn-human-life). I was going to read through the pages for specific horrifying examples of their repugnant views, but I was too nauseated to dig into it. I couldn’t get beyond their use of the phrases “persons with a homosexual inclination” and “respect for unborn human life”.
You would be putting your child in a position to be surrounded by, TAUGHT by, and cared for by people who if not hold, at least implicitly endorse these views by affiliating themselves with the church. Oh and that “tight knit community” you’re interested in? It’s going to made of, at least in part, of people who also hold these views. Are those people you really want to be in community with?
Anon says
I’m a Catholic, though with similar principles/politics as you. I would look at the order of the school. Would feel more than fine with a Jesuit or Franciscan school – these will be particularly strong on the character development side. Would no way no how ever send a child of mine to an Opus Dei school. Can’t speak to the exclusion points of Catholic school in general. On the welcoming/tolerance/acceptance issues, I’d dig more into the school community, particularly if it’s associated with a specific church. Our priest routinely gets in trouble for pro-LGBT work, including holding masses for openly gay and married couples. In contrast, some churches vocally pray for anti-abortion sentiments in the prayers of the faithful. That could swing a lot my comfort with the school. (Also, is there robust health/contraceptive education?) The school may have non-Catholic families they’d be willing to put you in touch with?
OP says
Thanks for your comments. This school is associated with the parish that my dad’s side of the family goes to, so I will have to ask around.
Aside from asking around, how do you recommend I find out how the school and parish are? My family and I share different political beliefs, so I don’t want to just ask outright.
Anon says
Check the website of the church, they should post the weekly bulletin. You can tell a lot about the leanings of the pastor/parish from those. (I just moved to an area with many Catholic Churches and that’s how I narrowed down which to try out.) Any positive mention/quoting of “Fr. James Martin” in materials is also a good sign.
Mary Moo Cow says
Not OP, but I think you can get a good flavor from hanging out on the school and parish’s websites, social media sites, and the school itself. When you sign up for a tour, you can ask to be contacted by a current family. Ask around to see if you have mutual acquaintances who attend the school, too, although, if you kids are a few years away from attending, that might be a limited pool. Also, if the school has events that are open to the public, like a spring carnival, attend and observe.
Anon says
My non-Catholic kid did a single year of private Catholic school in 2021; 1st grade. It was terrible, but most school experiences in the midst of Covid were likely also terrible. Here’s what was specifically terrible for him that wasn’t covid related:
– 2.5 hours a day of religion.
– Questions discouraged
– No art, no history
– No Halloween – “dress like a saint day” instead
– “Sanctity of Life” day
– So Many fundraising e-mails, including one asking for money to by the principal / priest a new car.
My curious, creative kid was crushed. I was really sad that we sent him there, but public schools didn’t open for in person and it wasn’t feasible for us to monitor distance learning from home.
OP says
Oh that sound brutal!
In the bit of research I did so far they definitely have art and social studies classes and I think religion is “only” 30 min a day. I know in just reviewing the curriculum information available online I prefer the Catholic school’s curriculum to the public school.
I don’t yet know enough about the parish / school’s politics, but I did see a note on the school calendar about Halloween so I think they celebrate that.
Anon says
Weird, Halloween is Catholic (all Hallows Eve = all holy eve = the day before All Saints’ Day”). Officially, Halloween through All Souls Day is called Hallowtide. Unfortunately, a strain of Catholicism is being heavily influenced by Puritanism/evangelicalism, and looks like you found it.
Redux says
Dress like a saint day though is a DOPE halloween theme. Martyrdom is gruesome, y’all! I honestly would have assumed this is a tongue in cheek fun halloween theme that would produce some gory costumes, but YMMV.
Pogo says
yeah, for real. That makes no sense to me that they would ban Halloween. It is absolutely a day to remember the dead, I think it might even be a holy day of obligation (All Souls Day that is).
Bean74 says
At least one of the Catholic schools near me is reportedly pretty relaxed with “dress like a saint day,” as in kids show up dressed as firefighters, nurses, doctors, military and say they’re the patron saint of that profession.
Anonymous says
Ohh that’s bad. I went to Catholic school in the late 80s early 90s (like, had nuns and we clapped erasers). We had art and science and history (social studies). We even had s*x ed in 4th grade. My parents moved me to public school in 5th grade when we moved to a better district and I feel like that was as long as it was OK to be there. I got public school science.
We did have “dress like a saint” day in 4th grade on all saint’s day, but the younger grades were allowed to wear halloween costumes. I think once that stopped they did the all saints thing with the older kids.
Anon says
Absolutely not, but we’re Jewish so that’s an additional complicating factor.
Anonymous says
I grew up Catholic, so my perspective is obviously going to be different than a non-Catholic’s. It’s really going to depend on the specific school. I went to a K-8 Catholic school (and then to a large public high school), and my school and that particular parish was very much hippie/social justice-y Catholic (and still is). Lots of focus on accepting and serving others, understanding where disparities come from (in an age-appropriate way), etc. All of the teachers really focused on the importance of being a good person, regardless of religious beliefs, and I never saw any of my Catholic classmates picking on the non-Catholic kids for their religious beliefs or lack thereof. If anything, it was the local evangelicals telling the Catholic kids that they weren’t real Christians. FWIW, I also distinctly remember a group of boys getting in pretty serious trouble in 6th grade for making fun of a kid and saying he was gay. I doubt the teachers and administration spent any time trying to explain the Church’s stance, but it was very clear that there was zero tolerance for that kind of behavior in the parish community.
All that being said, in the area I live now, most of the Catholic schools are NOT of the social justice-y variety, and there’s only one local Catholic school I’d even consider maybe sending my kid to (and that one does have a very diverse student population and strong focus on science education).
OP says
This would totally be a Catholic school I would send my kid to!
Do you have any advice on how to best find the vibe of the school?
Anonymous says
I feel like I need to put together a translation of Catholic code words, LOL. The above poster’s mention of Fr. James Martin is a good one. In the area I live now, if the church’s website or bulletins say anything like “All are welcome,” that’s a good sign. I’ve literally been told by people who go to more conservative Catholic churches that “all are most definitely NOT welcome.” Major eyeroll.
Might be hard to tell from the materials the school puts out about the religion and social studies curriculum, but do they cover racial, social, economic, and/or environmental justice? You’ll probably have to get to know other school families.
Check out what kind of events the church and parish have. Do they do anything with other faith communities? As an example, the parish I grew up on has a seder every year with one of the local synagogues. They take turns hosting, and share setup/organization, food prep/purchasing/serving, and cleanup. The high school youth group regularly does events with youth groups from other faith communities. More conservative Catholic parishes will likely only do events with other Catholic parishes.
This has been a big one in the past couple of years – do they partner with the health department or a local hospital to host a Covid vaccine clinic for students? Only one Catholic school in my area has done that, and the others have been very clear about “not wanting to be seen as encouraging students to violate their moral beliefs.”
Pogo says
I feel like finding out the vibe is hard without talking to parents at the school or attending mass at the church. It really depends so much on the pastor. Agree with listening to the prayers of the faithful and who they pray for (starving children vs embryos) and how often they refer to Pope Francis and his stance on things (he’s pretty notoriously chill and some local parishes have tried to distance themselves from his teachings while others are embracing it). A good Catholic community can be very social justice and environmentally oriented.
OP says
Might have to attend mass at the parish one weekend, then!
Anon says
My (non-Catholic) kids did Catholic preschool pre-Covid because it was one of the only full day options in our area, but I would not have sent them to elementary school.
– The constant fundraising was annoying, just on principle. But also because it first went to the church, then the church disbursed it to the school. While I hope it was all above board and my dollars went to students, the church was also running a “new parish for the priests” fund and it made me wonder.
– Confirmation and first communion were part of school. The non-Catholics either sat through those pieces, or had an “option” to sit in the library. My kids were younger but from other parents it seemed like most kids just went through it anyway.
– The sanctity of life thing was a bigger deal than I expected. The preschool did arts and crafts related to babies and recited a bunch of prayers during the month in October, and then there’s another day for it in January or February where they do it again. It was also heavily implied that families are only a mom and a dad, no exceptions.
– Questions were not encouraged. My kids don’t believe in a real Easter bunny (we’re not practicing Christians but did teach them the religious part of Easter) and we got a note sent home to talk with them about keeping opinions to ourselves. We also got a note home when my youngest insisted his two uncles were definitely a family.
I know we were not the target demographic for the school and in hindsight we probably should have kept them in daycare one more year instead. But I’d think about how much time you have to counteract any messaging that you don’t agree with. The kids will be there for 8+ hours a day, and their friends will likely have similar values to the school. It would take a lot of effort and deliberate conversation to share your own values with them with enough frequency to sink in.
OP says
One of the appealing parts is that they do a pre-school for 3 and 4 year olds so when our oldest goes to K our youngest could be at the same location (and after care is open to pre-school as well as school age kids, and there’s a summer camp on-site). Both kids on the same schedule at the same location, potentially year round, for over ten years (and it’s walking distance from our house!) is really, really appealing to us. But, not at the expense of our kids being taught values we don’t agree with.
Pogo says
that’s so funny about Easter bunny. Some of the MOST devout parents at my church are extremely anti-Easter Bunny and Santa because they’re not religious *enough*/take away from the religious aspect of the holiday.
OP says
I did look on the school calendar and saw a “lunch with Santa” event in December and flu shots offered on campus, so that’s promising!
AwayEmily says
I think what a school looks like on paper and how it feels are often very different. It’s so, so tough to know a school’s vibe unless you are actually a part of it. And that goes for public and private. I think you should try talking to parents at both the public schools you were unimpressed by and also the Catholic school, and asking them about their experiences.
OP says
Great point, I will try to seek out some families to talk with. Currently have a 3 year old and 1 year old, so there’s still time to decide (but I also think it will take us a while to decide, hence starting to look at things now).
The public school is actually pretty highly rated (and one of the better ones in our area) but it is HUGE and the impression I’ve gotten from briefly talking with a few neighbors is that it’s easy to get lost in the shuffle and kids become just a number pretty early on. From what I can tell so far, my 3 year old is pretty “easy” and seems pretty smart so I fear that she won’t get much individualized attention in that environment. Obviously, things could change a LOT by the time she starts Kindergarten – she might be difficult and struggle academically and then the calculus totally changes.
AwayEmily says
PLEASE feel free to ignore this since I know school decisions are so personal, but I think it’s worth *trying* the public school with the knowledge that if it doesn’t work, you can always change things up down the road. That was our approach — we sent my kindergartener to our local public school (which is rated in the bottom 10% in the state) with the idea that if it didn’t work for whatever reason, we could reconsider. She’s now finishing first grade and it has been truly amazing. A supportive community, caring teachers — she adores going to school each day. And again, things could change, but for now I’m so glad we gave it a try.
Anonymous says
She doesn’t need a lot of individualized attention. Normal school is fine. Idk why you wouldn’t try it.
OP says
I fully admit to being a snob when it comes to education, but I want better than fine for my kids’ education.
Anonymous says
What’s the issue with being just a number in your formative years? In my opinion, it’s much easier to start out being a little fish in a big pond. I went to highly rated huge public schools (700 kids in my graduating hs class) and undergrad (UC Berkeley). I still managed to distinguish myself in both. The private school kids I knew had breakdowns once they went to public universities, and couldn’t function if the teachers didn’t know them personally by name. They were all clueless in the working world. Please don’t try to raise a snowflake.
OP says
I went to a smaller private school and that was not my experience at all. My friends, siblings, and I were all well adjusted and did not have these issues in college or the workforce.
I will admit that I have higher than average standards for education, I was raised in a family of educators and it’s something we all think about and discuss frequently.
Anon says
+1
Anonymous says
For me, being bored to death for hours a day for years and years and years because the school did not have resources to challenge me in any way, had very significant mental health impacts.
Anon says
On the parents front – I posted above about the single year my kid went to Catholic school – I am 100% confident I was the only mom in his class with a job outside the home. Other kids told my kid they felt sorry for him, or asked why his dad “made me” work. That was fun.
OP says
Interesting! In my area the parish Catholic schools and dioccesean Catholic high schools are very much the working family’s public school alternative, these schools are usually between 3k-10k a year per kid, often with family discounts . Anyone who is actually wealthy sends their kids to private school (30k a year per kid!)
From the little research I’ve done, it seems like the Catholic schools and public schools have a similar rate of 2 working parent families and 1 working parent families (and it’s probably 60/40).
Anon says
My daughter went to catholic for K and 1 during covid and has now moved to public school. I am a second generation atheist and her father (we are not married) is a second generation agnostic. We have 2 friends who remained at the school. A lot of what I’m going to say may be specific to this particular school, but I thought it might be useful anyway.
The pros — the school was tiny and the classes were really small (10-12 kids), and the teachers were young and enthusiastic and engaged and kind. There were tons of resources for optional things. The school was on beautiful grounds.
Public school is much much bigger and doesn’t have the same kind of resources, though it is much better resourced than many public schools.
The cons — religion is a huge one. In K and 1 they just learned some bible stories and a bit about the saints and major holidays, but I’m glad we left before 2. Seems like this year they are spending a lot of time on religion — not just academically, but prayer in class, before meals, etc, has become much more part of the day. The two kids we know who still go there are clearly absorbing this a lot — one is jewish and is upset that she is not doing first communion and everyone else is and feels left out, and the other one is having nightmares about going to hell when she gets in trouble. I was not at all comfortable with any of this so I’m glad we left.
The other major con for me is that the student population is rich. Certainly not the absolute richest, but most families have second homes and drive luxury cars. There’s an expectation that kids do goodie bags for the whole class for every holiday and some moms (it’s always the moms) clearly spend $50+ per kid on these goodie bags — they are really elaborate and intense.
Another thing that bothered me is how gendered everything is. The school is affiliated with a convent, and until about a decade ago men were not permitted on the grounds (not even to drop off or pick up their daughters, they had to leave them at the gate). There is a mother’s club and a father’s club and they do very gendered events and fundraisers — the father’s club runs the softball program and does golf outing fundraisers and the mother’s club does a ladies gala and spa days etc. The other gender is not invited to these events — ie none of the moms go to the golf event. There was also a lot of emphasis on modesty — if girls wore shorts during the warm months on gym days, they had to wear a jumper over them because legs. And they always had to be wearing shorts or tights under the jumpers so their underwear did not show on the playground. I thought this was a bit much — these are children and an all girls school with giant walls all around, no one could peek through and see the schoolyard unless they used a drone.
In terms of giving money to the catholic church — I had the same concerns as you. However, the school we went to is a money loser, and the catholic church gives the school money to keep operating, and none of the tuition money goes back to the church. They are on the verge of closing every year because enrollment is so low.
Good luck with whatever you decide!
Anon says
Just wanted to add one thing — the school was much more tolerant of differences than I expected. My kid never heard anything negative about her parents being divorced. There was another kid in her class whose parents were going through divorces while she was there. There was even a single dad (by surrogate)(but he had the girl’s godmother participate in the moms group text where all important info was shared, because again, everything was THAT gendered). One time my daughter and her BFF declared that they were going to get married, and another girl told them that they couldn’t, and a teacher intervened and said that they could in fact get married if they wanted to.
Anonymous says
The Catholic church doesn’t believe my child should exist, so it’s a hard no for us.
Liza says
Seriously, my reply is stuck in mod, but like, rather than asking the commentariat here, I recommend OP read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or the summaries on the Catholic Church’s USCCB website, on LGBT and abortion issues. If OP can stomach what she sees there, then sure, go ahead. All the nuanced replies here are honestly baffling to me. Maybe people just really aren’t that familiar with what the RCC actually believes.
Anon says
I think a lot of wealthy whites women are fine with horrid policies that don’t personally affect them.
Anonymous says
I think people are familiar with what the RCC believes. You might be underestimating how seriously crappy some public schools are, whether it’s because they lack resources in general, or because right-wingers have taken over the school board, or something else. There are definitely parts of my state where the Catholic schools are more liberal than the public schools – it’s not saying much, but it is what it is, and if it’s not feasible to move elsewhere, than parents are going to try to do their best with the options available.
Anon says
I live in a dark dark red state – like a state that voted for Trump by 20 points – and I find this impossible to believe. No public school district has an official position that abortion is murder, even if that’s a view most staff and students hold.
Anonymous says
No, but the school district can enact a policy that requires staff to use dead names for trans kids, etc. Ex: https://www.fox6now.com/news/waukesha-schools-parental-rights-gender-pronouns
I can say that my local parochial school will use a child’s preferred name, and make efforts to accommodate students, because their goal is to provide a supportive learning environment for all.
Is that true of all Catholic schools? Certainly not. But there are more ways a public school can be dangerous than gangs or drugs.
Anonymous says
Forgot to add that I work with families with kids who have IEPs or need other accommodations, and sometimes the answer is to send their kid to the wealthier religious school, because that’s the school that has the resources to make the accommodation. It’s not ideal obviously, and public schools absolutely do have to follow the law, but I’m not going to fault burned-out parents for taking the path of least resistance.
OP says
I’m pretty familiar with the Catholic Church since so many people I know are members. Of course, they’re all pro-LGBT, pro-divorce, pro-contraception and teaching actual sex ed (not abstinence only) and most are pro-choice (but not all). I think there’s, in general, a huge difference between what your average Catholic believes (at least in my liberal, East Coast circles) and what the official Church stance is. One of the most pious Catholics I know is also an extremely liberal (she’s a socialist) lesbian (I don’t know how she squares it, but she does).
I grew up in a family of educators and so I take education really, really seriously. A good education for my children is one of my closest held values (so is my belief that we are all equal and deserve respect and dignity so, there’s my dilemma). This is a really hard decision for us. If I could afford the 30k a year private school, that would be a no brainer for me, but I can’t. The public schools here are fine but not good and there are some things there that I seriously disagree with. The education and curriculum at the Catholic schools are closer to what I want out of a school, but I don’t agree with the teachings of the Church. But, most Catholics I know don’t agree with those teachings either? I don’t know what to do.
Anon says
I think what I would struggle with in this case is the implication that women and members of the LGBTQ+ community are lesser. To me, it’s one thing that an adult makes a choice to worship in this faith community, even if they are a member of a marginalized community. It’s another to have my kids indoctrinated with overt and covert messaging that sends the message that certain groups are “lesser.”
OP says
I do think if we went with Catholic school we’d start attending our Episcopal church more frequently to counteract some of the views from the Catholic school. The two priests at our church are both women, 1 is disabled and 1 is an immigrant and Black and 1 of the associate rectors is gay and his husband and kids are there front and center every week.
Liza says
I’m surprised that as someone who comes from a family of educators, you think that differences in school quality have this much of an impact. The education professionals I know emphasize that by far the most important factor in a child’s education is family environment and parental involvement. Particularly at the elementary level, and particularly for kids who are going to do well, it is just not that deep. They will learn to read, they will learn math, it will be fine. They’re still so young, a lot of the school day is more like daycare.
I explored sending my kids to a (non-Catholic) religious private school, and the school administrators were very frank with me, which I appreciated very much. They said that because of the small class size and individualized attention, their school would provide the most benefit to kids with special needs, and of course the religious element for families to whom that was important. This made a lot of sense to me.
OP says
I am not an educator, so I can’t comment, just comment on what the educators in my family say.
My one aunt was a teacher at a private school and eventually became the school’s head of admissions and has shared a lot of thoughts about different types of elementary schools. She says the Catholic school kids are better prepared than the public school kids, but that Catholic school’s still focus more on memorization and less application (which I don’t like), but that they’re still better prepared than most public school students.
My mom is a teacher and I remember watching my nephew and she was over while he was doing HW and she mentioned that the work he was doing was considered below grade level (I think they were multiplying single digit numbers in 3rd or 4th grade and by that age they should have that down pat and be multiplying and dividing 2 and 3 digit numbers).
My family is huge on the home educational environment (and we incorporate that at home, with advice from the teachers in our family) and they agree in the younger ages that’s the biggest component. When I hear younger ages I had assumed it meant pre-school age, rather than grade school? We obviously read to my daughter a lot, but we also try to add in basic math into our conversations (she’s only 3 so is probably not absorbing yet, but we at least make it part of the discussion).
Anon says
The list of required beliefs for Catholics is really, really short! A lot of stuff in the catechism is quite controversial even among theologians. I think people project protestant expectations about consensus.
Liza says
Obviously as an individual you can believe whatever you want. The position of the church on social and moral issues is REALLY clear.
Anonymous says
Except that it’s not at all clear on an individual parish level. I really do think that there’s going to be a split at least in the American Catholic church in our lifetime.
Mary Moo Cow says
It really depends on the school. You’ve listed positives about this specific school and negatives about the Catholic Church — but are those negatives of this church and this school? My local Catholic schools have non-Catholic teachers, LGBT families, and a not insignificant number of non-Catholic students. What are the stats on the school you are looking at, and are you comfortable with them? Have you visited the school and feel comfortable and can really see your family becoming part of the school community?
I’m in a suburb with decent public schools, but all private schools saw a sustained increase in enrollment from 2020 school year on, and religious schools saw the biggest gain. I think you are right that more families attending religious schools now are C&E or were simply looking for in-person schooling and liked what they saw and stayed. If that’s true, then the school should be more attuned to the diverse population and non-Catholic kids won’t be such a minority.
Finally, I know that if any kid at my kids’ Catholic school told a non-Catholic kid they weren’t real Christians, teachers and staff would step in quickly and decisively, and there likely would be ongoing teaching and classroom conversations to shut that down. Religion isn’t presented as binary in our school; not everyone is expected to be Catholic, and not everyone is expected to show up in the associated church on the weekends.
OP says
I will definitely have to do more research into this particular school and parish. Do you know how to go about finding this information?
I do know that the school did have a pretty decent increase in enrollment as a result of the pandemic, so it’s promising that maybe there is more diversity than expected.
I really love that your school doesn’t expect everyone to be Catholic, that is very promising! I am looking for a good school for my kids and if it happens to be Catholic I think I am okay with that. What I don’t want is total emphasis on Catholicism and hey by the way, this is a school too.
I obviously have no issues with the Christianity aspect, I am just concerned about some Catholic-specific teachings.
Anonymous says
How do you think the school is that cheap? I can tell you. It’s paying teachers less than public school would. So I don’t think it’s a shocker the teachers aren’t as good.
It’s just wild to me that you’ve concluded that public school doesn’t meet your standards and seem determined to go to this catholic school you know nothing about.
OP says
I admit that where I grew up the public schools were not good and as a result I worry about the quality of education in public schools in general. I know it’s not true in all districts, but it was true where I grew up and honestly one of my #1 priorities in raising my kids is to ensure they get a good education. I grew up in an area where families never took vacations, bought new cars, or bought things new in order to afford a quality education for their children and I am of the same mindset.
I haven’t done a ton of research yet into either school because we have 1.5 years before my daughter will start K. I’m just starting my research now. I want to look at both schools fully and also explore financial aid options at a few private schools. I know that the size of the public schools concern me, as does some of what I’ve seen in the curriculum (by middle school they seem to be about 1 year behind in math from the Catholic school and 2-3 years behind in the books they read).
Liza says
There really is no “this church” and “this school” IMO. The Catholic church, of all denominations, makes a huge deal about how Catholic means “universal.” All the churches are supposed to hold the same beliefs set by the magesterium. There is no Catholic Church which thinks gay people should have equal rights. There is no Catholic Church which believes a woman can morally choose an abortion.
Anon says
Yup. I’m not a big fan of absolutes in parenting but this is one. I would send my kid to almost any public school before a Catholic school and if we lived in one of the districts with truly dangerous public schools, I would move. I can’t imagine willingly sending my kids to school associated with the Catholic Church.
Anon says
I generally agree with this…though “catholic” means universal across Christianity, and every Christian who says the Nicene creed professes to believe in “one catholic church”. But yes, the Catholic Church has a catechism and doctrine that applies to all parishes and baptized Catholics.
That said, the flavor of school and how that doctrine is applied can vary. Some believe evangelism means making everyone conform, other believe it means living by example while understanding that non-Catholics and secular culture have a different set of standards (that should be respected if not endorsed). Some will rigorously focus on prayer and devotions while other believe the essence of faith is walking with the marginalized and serving others. The Church in America is also vastly different than the Church in Germany or in Africa etc etc. 1+ billion people are not a monolith.
But yah, if the thought of the RCC makes you feel prickly then don’t use the school.
Pogo says
+1 to this. Don’t go to the school if you really don’t agree with the idea of the church (100% a fair thing to do!), but also don’t dismiss the experiences of people who have gone to schools or attended churches and have not encountered rampant bigotry.
Anonymous says
Your religion is closer to Catholicism than mine is, but I absolutely would not. The authority structure of Catholic institutions is really foreign to me and the belief system that there is one correct belief / catechism type education is really antithetical to our religion and family culture. My husband briefly taught at a catholic school and it was a DISASTER- so much emphasis on doing what you’re told, and as a literature teacher he found it super restrictive. And just a lot more rules about everything, not just religious stuff. One of my parents also taught at a catholic university their entire career and it just got worse and worse as far as lgbtq acceptance, womens’ health issues (what are you allowed to say when a student discloses an unwanted pregnancy to you without getting fired), and doing what the priests in charge said to do just because they were priests- also a literature professor and again, so many challenges about what poets and themes they could teach. Ultimately my parent took early retirement. We also had a Jewish family friend who really struggled at a local catholic high school because there was one right answer in religion class without any room for discussion.
Anonymous says
And I say this as someone whose kids are in a religious school with at minimum 2 hours of religious education per day – but in our own tradition which is very open to questioning and which supports our practice at home.
anon says
I want the Catholic Church nowhere near the character development of my children. Just because they may teach some good things, doesn’t make the hateful teachings any less reprehensible.
Liza says
Indeed. Would you eat a chili with high-quality meat if it was even 1% dog poop?
Pogo says
Curious, do you feel that way about Islam or Judaism? Their official views are also anti-women and anti-LGBT. That doesn’t mean every person who considers themselves part of that religion is dog poop.
Liza says
I’m not talking about the people at all, I’m talking about the teachings, and whether to send one’s child to a school with some good teachings and some horrible ones (using a provocative metaphor).
Anon says
Can’t speak for Islam because I don’t know enough, but this is NOT an accurate characterization of Judaism. Many denominations of Judaism do not have any “official views” that discriminate against women (or LGBT) in any way. I think highly of you Pogo but this comment makes you sound extremely ignorant.
Anon says
The overwhelming majority of rabbis in the US are politically progressive and openly advocate for same sex marriage, tr*ns rights, gun control and reproductive rights. The rabbi who officiated our wedding was a lesbian who brought her wife to our wedding and in her official remarks talked (to my great embarrassment!) about the importance of having sex for pleasure, not just for reproduction. But please tell me more about how Judaism is as conservative and anti-gay as Catholicism… 🙄
Fwiw I I know a ton of liberal Christians/atheists/secular Jews who would happily send their kids to a Jewish school or a Quaker school or a liberal Methodist school but wouldn’t touch Catholic schools with a ten foot pole. Doesn’t mean there aren’t good Catholic people, but the religion is backwards on human rights issues in a way Judaism and some other branches of Christianity aren’t.
Anonymous says
There are no official Jewish views.
Pogo says
I was being facetious to make a point. No one religions is a monolith, with varying levels of official adherence to whoever claims to be in charge. Catholicism doesn’t have an official “reform” sect, but many Catholic communities in the US and elsewhere practice de facto “reform” Catholicism. If there were a reform sect, followers could distance themselves from those official positions much like reform sects of other religions can.
Obviously there are reform and even conservative sects of Judaism that don’t have those teachings – that was my point. But extremely strict interpretation of Jewish law literally says women are spiritually unclean every single month because of a bodily function completely out of our control, you can’t say that is exactly pro-women.
Pogo says
My response is in mod but was being facetious to make a point. I admit to being defensive of the culture/religion I was born into, even if I don’t personally agree with all the tenets.
Anon says
@3:13 the Catholic Church’s stance is *not* that sex is just for reproduction…there is a whole Theology of the Body that absolutely emphasizes pleasure. Comments like this are why it’s so hard to discuss Catholicism…people parrot rumors they’ve heard/half-truths they’ve misunderstood as reasons the RCC is “bad”
Anon says
I mean, the whole no birth control thing would impede pleasure for a lot of women (me included) even if the church isn’t inherently anti-pleasure. And I’m fairly sure priests are not allowed to be openly gay, let alone married to their same sex partner. And women can’t be priests. And the Catholic Church was the primary driving force behind the anti-abortion movement in the US, which is an action that negatively affected hundreds of millions of women, many of them not Catholic.
There are definitely movements within Judaism that are more traditional and conservative (although they’re a tiny minority today in the US), but it’s not analogous. At all. The Catholic Church is officially anti-woman and anti-LGBT in a way that Judaism is just not.
Pogo says
I can’t reply but omg sorry. I was being facetious.
Anon says
Yep, the Church doesn’t condone BC and no priest is allowed to marry, gay or straight. Facts. But being anti-women and anti-LGBTQ is an opinion, not an objective fact. And you are entitled to it! But other people may have different opinions, or see areas of nuance that allow Catholic schools to be an option for them, even if the disagree with official teaching.
Anon says
Eastern rites priests are commonly married, and they’re just as Catholic as Roman rite priests.
The story of the Catholic scientist who worked on BC is an interesting one.
Anonymom says
Totally agreed. I am a lapsed Catholic, went to Catholic school from K-12 growing up. I won’t even begin to list all the horrible, hateful things I was taught and which continue to subconsciously plague me today. And this was in NYC, for point of reference. No Catholic institution will ever get a dime of my money.
Anon says
I would send to high school, but not to elementary school. If you have a good local school district then the elem kids should be in decently sized classes and not feel lost.
FWIW, I’m Catholic (or was raised Catholic) and have never heard of anyone saying that other denominations weren’t real christians. In the northeast, so most people were culturally Catholic and didn’t really follow the religion. I guess it is heavily location dependent. There is a lot of excitement around first holy communion though, especially with the special outfits. Kids not doing the sacraments would feel left out.
OP says
I distinctly remember being in 4th grade and a classmate (at my Episcopalian school!) telling me that the only Christians were Catholics. I was more of an ignorance thing (we were in a heavily Catholic area) than a “I think you’re an apostate” thing, but being in such a bubble that you don’t realize there are non-Catholic Christians (especially when you’re at a school for a different denomination) isn’t something I like either!
I’m also in the Northeast in an area where literally everyone was Irish Catholic or Italian Catholic, so the default culture was Catholic.
I also know that this kid’s family wasn’t even super Catholic – they stopped regular church attendance after the youngest was Confirmed.
Anon says
We’re not religious but our kids are currently in Catholic school because even the good public schools in our relatively affluent area are not great. Examples: class sizes approaching 30 at all age levels, the regular high school math progression is 9th grade pre-algebra, 10th grade algebra 1, 11th grade geometry, 12th grade algebra 2, and very limited access to “specials” in lower grades.
We are liberal, LGBT allies, and pro-choice so it’s often weird to have kids in Catholic school, but I just didn’t like what I saw when my kids were in public school.
Alanna of Trebond says
I am surprised by these responses, but I’m not Christian. My parents (both Hindu) were educated in Jesuit schools for K-12, I attended a Methodist preschool and my child is now attending an Episcopalian preschool. Catholic schools if they are good schools substantively seem fine.
Runner says
I am having a similar struggle! We are Catholic and go to church; I love many parts of the church and church teaching and hate the all-male leadership. We have about another year to decide if we want to put the kids in Catholic kindergarten, we could stall and wait till first grade.
I worry the most about an environment that is not welcoming to trans-kids. But, I’ll point out: our public school district is currently under sway of the “moms of liberty” who are trying to pass a policy that wouldn’t allow teachers to ask kids their pronouns. The school board superintendent has delegated sex ed curriculum decisions to the local schools; a counselor told me that she worries about telling kids who are trans that they are in a safe space because her conclusion is: they aren’t. We are in a red city in a purple state with a governor who is not going to make a stand on these issues. The culture wars are threaded throughout public schools and religious schools, and my husband and I are going to have to spend significant time, no matter what school we send our kids to, ensuring that they get taught things that are (1) true and (2) compassionate. And, I would say, our school is crunchy and secular liberal enough that my two sweet kids, who do believe in a God who loves them and loves everyone, do get mocked by kids who are pretty…anti-religious I’d say?
OP says
Great point, Runner!
I’m in a purple area and the district we live in seems okay (for now) but some of the neighboring districts (including the best one in the area!) have gotten really, really anti-LGBT+. Teachers had to take down their equals signs stickers and pride flags and if one of my children is LGBT, I wouldn’t want them going to school in that district.
Anonymous says
I’m a lapsed Catholic, and my young nieces to go a private Catholic school. Besides the in-person portion during the pandemic, there is no benefit I can see. When they were in kindergarten/first grade, everything they talked about was tied to Jesus or God’s will. From a long-term perspective, every hour of religious education they receive is one lost hour of math, science, history, English, etc. that they are not learning. Assuming 5ish subjects a day, they will be about 20% behind other kids heading into the same colleges. Why would you pay more for less education?
Anon says
Two things:
– They may be receiving less hours of education, but if it’s higher quality education then I think it would balance out.
– In my area, public school classes are like 25-28 kids per class in grade school and Catholic schools are like 15 kids per class, so there’s more one on one interaction and instruction.
– In my area, disruptive kids are kept in public school classes, but in Catholic schools they’re sent to the office.
– Public elementary schools near me start at 9AM and end at 2:50 PM whereas the Catholic schools are 8-3, so there’s more than an extra hour per day in Catholic school
Anonymous says
So, my kids go to Jewish school, but they do have 1.5-2.5 hours of religious education per day. And it’s not just a direct loss of other subjects. The part that is strictly religious ed (vs language) is also basically more humanities in the day- in second grade they are learning to write paragraphs both in regular general studies and in Jewish studies, they work on the same critical thinking skills in both, work on interpretation of literature/story structure, etc. I’ve been super impressed at how the religious studies teacher uses the material to build the same skills they work on in general studies. The other part is hebrew language and I’m just glad the kids are learning a second language seriously in school (even if I would prefer it to be Spanish).
Anon says
That’s awesome to hear how dedicated the teacher is to incorporating other lessons into religious studies! I went to Catholic school and I recall our religion classes being similar – writing an essay for religion is just more practice writing essays! And, as someone who writes full time for a living, I can tell you SO MANY of my colleagues did not get enough writing practice in school, lol!
Anonymous says
My kid is in pre-K at a Christian (but not Catholic) school. I’m a culturally Christian atheist. I suggest touring the school and being very honest – you’re Episcopalians considering a religious education for your child and you’re considering their Catholic school. If the school reacts badly that gives you a lot of information. We were also worried about an exclusionary atmosphere and asked how many of the kids’ families were part of the affiliated church’s congregation (1/3 in our case). Ask the daily schedule – and follow up with questions about what is done in chapel. Think about what you want to ask and how you want to ask it. I’m happy with our school, but we toured many that we rejected.
Anon says
I know that you probably won’t see this late on a Friday but I wanted to express that you seem like you’re very opposed to public schools and that you and the educators in your family only have experience with private school. That is fine but it also clearly introducing some bias in your process.
Assuming the public schools where you grew up were bad, you should reflect on why you think that matters in this decision. Even if you live in the same community, the schools are certainly quite different now (for better or worse). My husband grew up in Kansas City where the public school system has been in disarray for decades. He went to private (Catholic) school K-12. Our kids go to public school (in a different city). I encourage you to consider your options seriously and to consider how much of your desire for private education is because of your comfort with it versus it truly being a better experience and opportunity for your kids.
I think many people abandon the public school system because of assumptions or stories from other districts. We love our school, our teachers, and the community we have built there.
Pogo says
People who travel from Boston to midtown NYC frequently – what is your best rec? Initially I assumed Acela, but it’s honestly cheaper for me to fly into LGA? And then if I time it right (ie land at 10pm) should only be 30min to my hotel.
The actual cheapest option is probably to drive and park at the hotel but I haaate driving in the city. Work is paying so it doesn’t super matter, I’m trying to balance time/effort/cost in a reasonable manner.
So Anon says
Its been a few years, but for me, it was about even time wise to take the train v. fly. Flying involves the logistics and time of getting through security, getting out to Logan/LGA. I preferred the Acela because I could book a business class seat, walk into South Station and grab my preferred food/coffee on the way.
Anon says
Acela 100%. Flying may seem faster but there’s so much more down time and higher chance of delays/cancellations. So many more transfers with flying. LGA requires a car trip into NYC and then you have to contend with traffic, too.
Anonymous says
Planes get delayed more often than trains do.
Pogo says
that’s a good point.
Anonymous says
The notion that you can time it right is very optimistic. When I get in late I often have to wait in line for a cab or car service, even if traffic isn’t bad. And it’s almost always bad.
Anonymous says
PS – to quote from Seinfeld, “they say no one has ever beaten the Van Wyck..”
Anonymous says
+1. I cannot imagine getting from LGA to midtown in 30 minutes at any time of day.
Anon says
I would do the Acela, as it seems the easiest logistically and you’re not paying for it!
NYCer says
FWIW, one of my good friends used to go to Boston once a week for work, and she preferred flying vs Acela. The Delta shuttle from LGA to BOS is really easy, and there is a flight basically every hour.
Alanna of Trebond says
Do NOT fly back from Boston to NYC. You can fly from NYC to Boston, but the Boston flights (especially evening flights) invariably get cancelled. That’s why I’ve driven a rental car from Boston to New York City at midnight twice!
GCA says
100% Acela! If you are in a south-of-Boston suburb you can even take it from the Rt 128 station instead of going downtown.
Anon says
A hopefully fun question for a Friday. I’m pregnant with my first, and have started to think about what family traditions I want to make for my kid(s). What are your favorite family traditions, holiday or non-holiday related?
Anon says
My daughter has a birthday right before Thanksgiving. So kind of an awkward time of year to coordinate a birthday party, etc.
She’s only 3 but so far, each half birthday, I’ve been taking off work and spend a day with her.
I’m hoping it turns into a fun tradition going on forward for her . My goal is that she associates her 1/2 birthdays are just a fun day with Mom.
Anonymous says
We have a picnic for dinner on the first warm day of spring! (Usually defined as 75 or above.)
Vicky Austin says
I can’t remember the name of the online vloggy family I was watching, but they have a tradition that the first 100 degree day of summer means ice cream for dinner – I thought that was adorable.
Anonymous says
I love family traditions, ours are probably pretty typical but still fun. We make a big deal out of birthdays- hat, chair, pancakes, candles, lots of singing, decorations. We also have books for most of the holidays that we only take out around those holidays, which keeps them special. Christmas could be a whole separate post because we do a ton around that time of year, but other random seasonal ones are pictures on the first and last day of schools, pizza Fridays, pumpkin and apple picking in the fall, strawberry picking in the spring, blueberry/blackberry picking in the summer (yes I love fruit), and farmers market Saturday mornings. The fruit picking my kids have started to ask about and anticipate, which is fun.
Anon says
As a kid we did family movie night every Friday in grade school (this was the 90s and nobody cared about screen time; if you are concerned about screen time I think family board game night would be fun too!). Most, but not every Friday, we would have pizza for dinner and then after dinner watch a movie with popcorn and soda (a big treat). I still remember the one time we replaced soda with milkshakes and how fun that was!
Every Saturday after basketball/baseball/soccer/lacrosse we would stop at the diner on our way home for lunch (and milkshakes).
My grandparents lived on our way home from school and we’d stop over to hang out for 30-60 minutes on our way home once or twice a week. It was super fun and made us very close with those grandparents.
My cousins were all in high school when we were little (my dad is the baby of the family) and we’d usually stop at their high school sports games on Fridays on our way home from school.
There was a bakery near my grandparents and they had the best danishes and other treats and we’d stop and get them on special occasions or would go there for seasonal treats (for example, they had awesome hot cross buns. We always got our Christmas morning pastries there too).
When driving to the beach (2 hours away, where my other grandparents lived in the summers so we’d go several times each summer) we had a tradition about opening the windows for the first breath of salt air.
Anonymous says
Today’s pick is pretty timely. Anyone have recommendations for training underwear that will accommodate a toddler belly? (Would appreciate recs for leggings, too, if you have them.) As my kid gets taller, we’re having trouble finding pants and leggings that fit her belly, and I don’t want her to be discouraged from ditching diapers because her underwear is too tight on her belly. As an example, Carters and Cat & Jack pants are now out. Hoping to try potty training at the end of the month.
Anonymous says
Have you tried the Hanna Andersson training pants? They are the best, and much less pricey if you can find them at the outlet or on sale.
OP says
No, that’s a good idea, thanks! They weren’t on my radar at all because none of the Hanna Andersson clothes we were given as newborn gifts worked – they were way too wide for my then-scrawny kid.
Anonymous says
The only things at Hanna Andersson that ever fit my (scrawny) kid were the undies and the long johns. I have heard so many people rave about the undies and the long johns that I’m convinced they stretch to fit all kid shapes.
Lydia says
my daughter has a belly and these training underwear! they don’t seem to bother her. For leggings, one option is to go up a size or two and get capri leggings (this fixes the waist-to-leg ratio issue). We’ve done this with Primary and H&M. otherwise, lots of cuffing pants.
Anon says
I’m turning 39 next week. I have a 10 year old from my first marriage, and got remarried two years ago. Now-husband loves kids and loves being a stepdad, my kid adores him. We’ve talked a lot about having another one but we were both really ambivalent about it. We talked about potential names, etc, but also worry about the early years and how hard that would be, and also the money. We agreed that this year, when I am 39, is the decision point — either we start trying, or we decide we’re not doing it.
Last weekend, we talked about it and husband said he has decided he doesn’t want another kid. I was totally ambivalent before he said that but now I feel really sad. Like a door closed — I’m really not going to have another baby/child/adult child, my kid will definitely not have a sibling. I thought I would be fine with whatever we decided but I’m definitely not. I haven’t talked to my husband about this yet because I want to be careful to not pressure him — if he knew how sad I am about it he would say lets just do it, but I don’t want him to agree to it without being fully entirely on board.
Of course, given our ages it’s entirely possible that it wouldn’t happen anyway, but I thought I had another year or so before having to emotionally deal with that door-shutting feeling.
Anyway, if anyone’s been there I would appreciate your thoughts or advice.
older sibling says
From the older child perspective:
I have a half sibling who is 11 years younger. There’s no animosity, but we have essentially the same relationship that I have with distant cousins. Maybe a text once a year?
There have been many points, especially when I was a tween/teen when I couldn’t get attention I needed because babies and toddlers take a lot of time and energy.
Anon says
Yeah my immediate thought was that another child is not something that would be a net benefit for your 10 year old. The reduced attention during the tween/teen years seems like it would be more than cancel out any potential adult relationship with the half sibling.
Gila says
It would be a net negative, most likely. Sauce: have two half-siblings who are 8+ years younger than me.
OP says
I appreciate your point and experience, but my experience is the opposite — I have a much younger half sibling (7 years) and we are very close as adults. Also my child has been asking for a sibling (and is old enough to understand that it would start out as a baby/toddler, and not a playmate).
Anon says
I mean, they could be close. They’re equally likely to cause each other major problems. I’ve seen a lot of situations where siblings did more harm than good when it comes to navigating situations like elder care.
I understand a 10 year old asking for a sibling is not like a 3 year old asking for a sibling, but they still don’t really understand what they’re asking for. A 10 year old May understand that they’re not getting a same age bestie, but the don’t understand all the ways in which the sibling will impact their life, including years into the future. That’s especially true if your finances are at all tight. Your 10 year old can’t understand what it means to have to take loans for college, for example, because you can’t afford to pay for college for two. I know it’s easier said than done but I really would not give much weight to what a child is asking for. Even a 10 year old doesn’t have anything close to the complete picture.
NLD in NYC says
FWIW I have much younger half siblings (15 & 19 years) from dad’s 2nd marriage. While we weren’t close while they where young we’ve become closer as they’ve become young adults. Re earlier comments, while it’s important to consider the potential impact of adding another child to your older kid I don’t think that should be the predominant reason to rule out having another… if you really want one.
Anonymous says
I haven’t been there so can’t speak from experience. But if I were you, I’d spend some time noticing how much of what you’re feeling is coming from the loss of that second child for your family and how much is coming from the reality of a door shutting and the fun possibility you guys have spent so much time on being gone and how much is coming from being 39/the reality of aging. It’s probably a mix. Is there one side that is contributing more to your sadness than the other?
Anonymous says
Agree. I have 3 kids and had the same feelings when DH had his vasectomy.
Anon says
The oneanddone subr3ddit might be helpful. There are quite a few people there who aren’t OAD by choice, including some in your situation where a spouse was the driving force in the decision.