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Anonymous says
Ughhh tweens. My daughter and I had our first…relatively heated disagreement…over clothing. What say you, moms of tweens?
Kiddo (almost 10) wants to wear those trendy shirts that don’t quite cover your stomach. I bought two tops not realizing that they would be more midriff peeking vs hitting at the top of high waisted jeans. She loves them; I said they are ok for weekends but not school. “Everyone wears them.” (Vaguely confirmed- not everyone, but yes, tops like this are worn at school sometimes). Dad wisely asked about a dress code. There isn’t one.
Tops in question:
https://www2.hm.com/en_us/productpage.1147897004.html
https://www2.hm.com/en_us/productpage.1147901005.html
If it matters, they fit kiddo really well and she looks cute. She’s just at the age where we are going to have to come up with what we think is appropriate or it will be a slippery slope.
DH could go either way but suggested we see if middle or high school had dress codes and follow that. Middle school just got rid of theirs after parent protest. Looking into HS.
Cb says
Oh wow, I owned those tops in 1999. At least they aren’t wearing the super low rise jeans we did and visible undies of early 00s.
I think you just need a blanket rule for ease – no belly buttons at school?
Anne-on says
I definitely wore stuff like that but not until I was an older high schooler. I think a blanket no visible underwear, no belly buttons, shorts/skirts must be longer than your shirt? I had to follow the fingertip rule in middle school for bottoms. The super short (2.5in) running shorts seem to be all the rage around here but that seems pretty revealing for a tween.
Anonymous says
Just let her wear the clothes that you admit are not prohibited by the school and are common? Why would this be a fight.
Anonymous says
Because OP’s house rules don’t need to be dictated by clothing manufacturers?
Anonymous says
You can chose not to impose prudery on your girl children.
Anonymous says
I can choose to raise my daughter as a feminist who does not dress for the male gaze under the guise of “choice.”
Anon says
Prudery? That’s such a rude word to use.
Anonymous says
Would you let a 10 year old wear a bikini to school if its common and allowed by the rules?
I also wouldnt allow a 10 year old boy to not wear a shirt to school, even if its common for little boys to run around at the park shirtless. I don’t think its absurd prudery to say torso must be covered for school. Theres a time and place for different types of outfits and its ok to teach your kids that.
Anonymous says
Yes. If all the other ten year olds were wearing bikinis to school and it was allowed I absolutely would! Why not?
Anon says
Yeah I wouldn’t let a boy go to school shirtless either. It’s not about prudery, it’s about dressing appropriately for the setting. School is not a place for bare stomachs. The beach is.
Anonymous says
Are there any circumstances in which you believe clothes are inappropriate for the setting?
If there is no dress code, are clothes required at all? can the kids go nude? how about the teachers?
Anonymous says
I’m the OP here and I’m specifically asking for guidance from moms with kids of a similar age and specially how parents with tweens feel this look is AT SCHOOL (at home I care much less, I think?). Mine is the oldest , and I grew up going to a school with uniforms and parents who only bought me very modest (or at least not super cool) clothes. I feel like we need a general conversation about guidelines around clothes, but previously all I had was “people should not be able to see your butt in public” which covered wearing playground shorts as needed under dresses, visible buttcrack, shorts of an appropriate-enough length, etc. ;) She’s starting to wear a bra so i added “people should not be able to see your underwear in public” which covered bra straps and low rise jeans.
Like…is this look a little old for her? is it fine but only on weekends, or am I just un-cool?
She’s in 3rd grade and there are still girls wearing bike shorts + pokemon tops (as well as others wearing outfits like this, apparently).
Anonymous says
The look is definitely a little old for a third-grader, and also inappropriate for school.
Anonymous says
As the mom of a 3rd and 5th grade girl, my house rules are a) cotton leggings are not pants (thicker athletic leggings are ok); b) no bellies; c) no spaghetti straps at school. Early elementary didn’t enforce any rules, but my fifth grader tells me there are rules around no tank tops for boys (not sure on girls) and no bellies.
I don’t care what anyone else does or says. I don’t care if anyone thinks I’m a prude or trying to raise a prude. “Leggings are not pants” is a standard line I sat at least 2x/week when someone is getting dressed. When they were younger they wore leggings as tights under dresses and we still have some hanging around (and I get it-they’re comfortable!)
-Honestly the spaghetti strap thing started when they were small because I didn’t want to slather shoulders with sunscreen on sunny days.
Anonymous says
TBH a lot of my clothing rules are primarily about sunscreen.
NYCer says
Those shirts don’t really look like crop tops online, but if you can see skin between the top of pants and bottom of shirt, that would be a no-go for me for school in 4th grade. I am surprised the school allows crop tops in elementary school.
Posts like this make me so happy our school has uniforms tbh!
Anon says
+1 to this
Mary Moo Cow says
Same on all counts! No dress code at all?! In the absence of a school dress code, I would call it a family dress code: no belly at school.
My kids have uniforms, too, so weekend clothes are even more of a treat. Your daughter probably won’t fall for it, but is there a way to frame it like, you get to wear fun clothes on non-school days, and they will be even more special because you don’t wear them every day? I think about this when I have to put on hard pants, and over time, it’s become true. I even like wearing a dress again because it’s not my running shorts that I wore daily for 2.5 years.
Anonymous says
OP here, and she’s actually in 3rd grade (turns 10 in August). They aren’t exactly crop tops, more like…an inch gap between her high rise pants and the bottom of the shirt. It surprised me how short they were too-i didn’t intentionally order that style!
My 5 year old stole them and wore them around and we all laughed since they looked like real shirts on her. I told kiddo she could keep them for weekend wear AND she had to let little sister wear them. We tabled the “can i wear this to school” until I thought about it a little more and talked to her dad. It was 90 degrees here today so she wore shorts and a t shirt anyway.
Anonymous says
I would just have returned them and told her it was because they didn’t fit!
avocado says
I don’t let my teenager wear tops to school or in public that show skin when her arms are down, unless she’s going to the gym. The top needs to meet the waistband of the pants. Some of her tops show some skin when she raises her arms, but I let that slide as long as the top is loose enough to fall back down when she lowers her arms because otherwise she would never be able to find anything to wear.
I am allegedly the only mother in the world who won’t let her child wear pajama pants to school except on pajama day, so I am probably on the strict end of the spectrum.
Anonymous says
How about a camisole underneath?
EP-er says
I think you can decide for your family, with much more parental say in elementary school than high school. For our family, I wouldn’t let my tween (11) wear these to school. Right now, we have a rule where if you raise your arms in the air, you shouldn’t see skin. Clothes should be appropriate for the activity, so for school they should be comfortable when you are at your desk and when you are running around the playground. Is she going to be self conscious about the monkey bars in a shirt which shows that much? I know my daughter is tucking in shirts so she can hang upside down!
But that doesn’t mean I don’t see things like this at the elementary school and I don’t judge – it just isn’t for us. I think that you are wise to come up with some general rules which are easily articulated.
Anon says
Agreed and honestly i don’t think retailer should make crop tops for young kids. My children are 5 and just grew out of the toddler section and i hate how so many of the girls clothes involve cut outs and crop tops
Anon says
My kid is big and grew out of toddler sizes at age 3. I hate girls clothes! So much of it is inappropriate for little kids and it’s way less cute than toddler stuff.
anon says
I hate it, too. My 8 year old doesn’t need to be baring her midriff at school, and if that makes me a prude, so be it.
Anon says
I would let her wear them with high waisted pants, although I can’t really imagine a 10 year old in mom jeans tbh. Maybe she could wear them over a dress?
Anon says
Mom of a 4th grade 10 year old. We talk a lot about dressing appropriately for the activity, and how all underwear areas must be covered in public. Similar to you, the dress code doesn’t prohibit it and others in elementary school are wearing it. Last year we required a tank top underneath, but this year she begged to wear them. As the kids are getting older, we’re trying to allow them input into our family rules and values, and this seemed like a low stakes way to involve her.
We asked her to create a Google Slides document laying out her argument. We listed three objections that she needed to respond to, in addition to including her benefits. They were something like 1) Some adults, including teachers, will consider the shirts inappropriate. Does that make them fall under our family rule about clothes being appropriate for the activity? 2) We grew up being told that female skin between the knees and shoulders should be covered, otherwise it’s considered “sexy”. Has she ever heard that? What does she think about it? 3) Bodies change rapidly during childhood. Is there a point where crop tops should no longer be allowed? Why or why not?
She took it seriously and did some good research. She brought up her brother being in public without a shirt – why is his belly button okay but hers is not? She brought up how other people’s feelings shouldn’t be more important than her feelings about and comfort in her own clothes. And she asked why people think kids care about sexy, and if the issue is the person thinking a 10 year old is sexy.
None of this was new to us, but we were happy she was being thoughtful about her answers and still believed she should be able to wear the shirts. So, we agreed for last fall and decided to check in before the spring. She hasn’t asked yet but I plan to allow them again, assuming she still feels like they’re appropriate and comfortable.
Anonymous says
My two cents is we don’t allow midriff-baring shirts at school but are lenient outside of school. That said, I’m firmly against sports bras as tops for anyone under 18.
startup lawyer says
I don’t have a pre-teen daughter but do have a preteen niece i see often. Personally, i would let her wear it around the house and if she seems comfortable then I would be fine but if she’s also constantly pulling it down or slouching, i’d have a convo about how she actually feels in these type of shirts and whether she wants to be doing that at school.
Anon says
I’m another new mom considering homeschooling because of gun violence. When I caught up on the thread last night, I wondered if anyone knew of a published source that evaluates the risk level?
Anonymous says
No. And please stop. We all send our kids to school because it is normal and necessary. Don’t start off the Friday with this.
Anon says
+1
Anon says
35 school districts in my city are closed today because of a bomb threat.
If you don’t want to take part in a conversation, feel free to scroll past. It’s not unreasonable for parents to not want to have their kids live through these experiences and explore their options.
Anon says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/school-shootings-are-extraordinarily-rare-why-is-fear-of-them-driving-policy/2018/03/08/f4ead9f2-2247-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html
https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/26/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/
Anonymous says
That WP headline is insane. School shootings are rare, but they are nonexistent everywhere else and shouldn’t happen at all. The same policies that would prevent school shootings would also prevent other mass shootings, individual murders, and $uic!des. And school shootings are not driving policy, since we haven’t enacted any policies to prevent them.
Anon says
I have some links in m0d but if you Google you can find some newspaper opinion pieces with some statistics.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that most gun deaths are accidental or suicides and even among murders, most of them don’t happen in mass shootings, and most mass shootings don’t take place in schools. I’m very very pro gun control but the odds of dying specifically in a mass school shooting are incredibly low.
One of the articles I found says kids are safer at school today than they were in the 1900s, in fact four times as many children died at school in the early 1990s as today. (That surprised me – I didn’t think it had increased much but I didn’t realize it had decreased so much). This is from researchers at Northeastern University so I don’t think it has an overtly political bent or anything.
Anonymous says
I don’t agree with yesterday’s posters that fear of mass shootings is “anxiety”–it’s a rational concern. My husband and I have discussed moving back to the country where he was born for safety reasons numerous times. There are so many downsides to homeschooling, though, that I don’t think the safety benefits outweigh the negatives.
Anon says
When you are disproportionately worried about a statistically minuscule risk, that’s classic anxiety. I say that kindly as someone who has had anxiety myself.
anonymous says
Good professional statisticians actually consider the severity/disfavorability of the outcome as a component of the risk. So your blanket statement is neither accurate nor kind.
Anon says
I’m not sure what professional statisticians have to do with an anxiety diagnosis – that comes from a medical doctor or psychiatrist. Regardless, the relative risk of death in a school shooting is very low compared to other kinds of childhood death (car accidents, cancer, drownings, accidental gun deaths, etc.) and I’m assuming any kind of death is considered extremely disfavorable, so I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
Sorry you felt it wasn’t kind. It was intended kindly. When I’ve had an anxiety spiral it helps to hear from an outside source that I’m not being rational and it’s the anxiety talking, because anxiety is treatable.
Anon says
I agree. It feels pretty dismissive to act like it’s totally irrational to worry about kids getting killed in American schools when that doesn’t happen at home or in schools in other countries. There IS a real problem here.
Anon says
“There is a real problem in the US” and “statistically the risk is incredibly low and much smaller than other risks to your child’s life” are not mutually exclusive statements. It IS irrational to have this keep you up at night if you aren’t also being kept up at night worrying about your kid getting cancer or drowning or dying in a car crush. That doesn’t mean you can’t be angry at the gun situation and want it to change.
Anonymous says
This. I am very concerned about school shootings. I also think it’s a very poor reason to homeschool. I was homeschooled. I think it’s a good option for many families! But you should do it because you want to and feel you can provide an excellent education to your kids: not because you want to instill fear in your children of society at large. And by the way, whether or not instilling that fear is your goal, if you homeschool solely for this reason, the fear will creep in. You cannot ask a young child to make this distinction.
GCA says
This. Yesterday’s discussion and today’s are not really about homeschooling and its pros and cons. (Obviously, if you do not venture out into the world, you are very unlikely to face a great many potential harms.) I am very concerned about school shootings, but the most empowering action for my family is to donate to / vote in alignment with Moms Demand Action.
OP says
I have given up trying to include nuance in my questions here. But the question of “instilling fear” in my child is a much bigger part of my decision process. I think active shooter drills and lockdowns, or worrying about dress codes and sexual harrasment/assualt for that matter, would create a much worse culture of fear than quality homeschooling. God forbid my son turn out “weird”.
Anony says
Your Local Epidemiologist had a great post on substack about the risks around gun violence and if I remember correctly, the current big source of harm are active shooter drills which lead to very little “learning” but do create a lot of anxiety in children that tends to last for a long time. Highly recommend reading her post as it includes a lot of nuance and actual information.
EDAnon says
I will say that my son (6) had started doing lockdown drills and is not scared by them. His school is very intentional about making them NOT scary (no banging, no fake gun noises). He also does them at summer camp (weekly with fire or tornado drills) so I would just note that not going to school doesn’t mean you don’t get exposed to that stuff.
Anon says
I use public schools and I know families who are thriving with homeschooling, so I don’t really have a dog in this fight. But, in general, making choices out of fear is not a great strategy. A poster yesterday laid out many great reasons a family may choose to homeschool; if you are considering it, I would make sure there are positive and hopeful reasons to make this choice.
Personally, there are safety issues with schools that concern me more than mass gun violence, even in younger grades (my niece has had her privates pinched by another kindergartner, my K and 2nd have had their things stolen by peers on the bus, there’s a lot of objects thrown in my son’s 2nd grade class), so safety in general will continue to be on my radar and factor into our schooling choice.
anon says
10 million to 1 are the odds. You also need to make sure your child never rides in a car (103:1), rides a bicycle, (770:1), or goes near a dog (53,843:1).
Anon says
To be fair, I have seen people here say they don’t let their children go near dogs…even their own dogs! Lol
anon says
I will be 100% honest that my greatest parenting anxiety is around car travel. People have no idea how many children are killed or experience life-changing injuries due to a car crash every year. It’s horrifying.
EDAnon says
It is horrifying. People really downplay how dangerous cars are because we all “need” them.
Cb says
Yep. We are cyclists and all my fears are centred on cars… stranger danger rarely enters the equation.
Anon says
I think we’re also shaped by our own life experiences. My mom almost died in a car crash as a child and a high school classmate lost a 3 year old child to cancer, so those things loom larger in my head than gun violence, which has not personally affected anyone I know, even though I understand that statistically guns kill more kids than cancer and car crashes.
Anonymous says
100% agree with this. We walk to school and the intersections can be so nerve wracking, watching drivers blow through red lights. It’s not just the people in the car that need to worry. This is my main concern about my kids safety.
OP says
Where is your 1:10,000,000 sourced from? I’m interested in reading the details of the methodologies.
Anon says
I’m not that poster but I saw it in an article recently. https://www.city-journal.org/article/sorrow-and-precaution-not-hysteria
This journal is published by a conservative think tank (Manhattan Institute), so definitely not unbiased, but it’s a legitimate organization, not something like NewsMax that makes things up. And I actually agree with the point that active shooter drills do more harm than good.
Anon says
I have plenty of concerns about public school, and my kids go to public school, but this isn’t high on my list of concerns. Gun violence is a possibility literally anywhere. If it was enough for me to homeschool, I’d also stop going to the grocery store, movie theaters, and sporting events.
Annon says
Hi – My four-year old has been complaining of her tummy hurting for many months now. We’ve gone to the pedi, tracked her diet, tracked her BMs, tried probiotics, tried miralax, and nothing has made a difference nor identified a cause. We have an appointment for a GI specialist but it’s not for several months — any suggestions? I feel so bad for the poor girl and I’m a tad worried it’s something serious since nothing seems to make a difference.
Stay-at-home Dad experiences? says
What should my husband and I discuss before he becomes a stay-at-home father for the summer? (Long story short – his employer instituted a hiring freeze in the middle of a 6 month contract-to-hire so he’s out of work in mid-May.) I think we need to be on the same page about the level of job hunting (if any) over the summer. What else should we discuss? I’m rather anxious about this because I think the potential for disaster is huge if we have different expectations. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
Anon says
What’s the end goal here? Does he want to go back to work as soon as he can? Or be a SAHD until your kids leave home? Or something in between? I think if he wants to continue looking for work, you’ll need some childcare. Job hunting isn’t a full-time job but it can definitely take 10 or 15 hours per week so unless the kids are all in school/camp I think it makes sense to pay for some help.
Anon says
Screen time/activity expectations for kids. His opinion may slightly outweigh yours (he is the one home with the kids or in charge or shuttling them around) but you need to come up with a baseline you can both be comfortable with.
How old are the kids? Maybe also some discussion around household “chores” he can get done with them during the week (nothing strict that he’ll be penalized for not completing – life happens, and he’s a spouse not an employee) but you could decide that he’ll try to do all the meal planning and grocery shopping during the weekdays, for example.
Anonymous says
If he’s home with the kids, he should be doing 100% of the household chores unless the kids are twin infants. The expectation should be that all chores are done during business hours so that weekends are free for family fun and individual hobbies and relaxation. My SAHM did all the housework and yard work, volunteered at the school, shopped and cooked, handled all the kid transportation, etc. No reason a man can’t do the same. Being a SAHP is a full-time job. Housework is not “extra”–it IS the job.
Anon says
I’m Anon at 10:33 and I’m a SAHM. I do most of the chores but I definitely don’t do all (c’mon, my husband lives here and is a parent, too). And lots of days kids need more attention than the chores, or you want to do something fun with them (I have 3). In the summers, especially!
The main “job” of a stay at home parent is taking care of kids (which comes with a lot of logistics and a lot of extra housework)…that’s why people pay childcare and don’t just work from home with their kids roaming around.
It sounds like your parents didn’t have a healthy marriage! My husband is an equal partner and I expect my boys will be, too, regardless of who works where.
Anonnn says
Um, families approach these roles in different ways and there is no one size fits all approach. Housework can certainly be “extra.” My mom was a stay at home parent and had a house cleaner for decades. There is no rule about this except in your own head.
Spirograph says
+1 I had a SAHM and we had a housecleaner until my siblings and I were old enough to meaningfully contribute to household chores.
My mom did all of the stuff Anon at 10:57 mentioned…. and divorced my dad because she wanted a partner, not just a cash flow from his salary.
Anon says
Agreed. Almost all the SAHMs I know have cleaning services and many of them have landscapers, grocery or meal delivery, laundry service and other housework help. These are not insanely wealthy people fwiw.
I view a stay at home parents’ job as childcare, not housework. Personally I side-eye SAHPs with significant paid childcare like a nanny or a full time daycare program unless they need it for a specific reason like job searching. But if they’re taking care of the kids, who cares how much household help they have. And if I couldn’t afford to outsource anything, I would still expect to split chores roughly 50-50 especially if I had kids at home who weren’t in full day school. Once all kids are in school from 9-3 there’s an argument the SAHP’s job is maintaining the home. But before that, the job is taking care of the kids, not keeping a perfect house.
Anon says
What? Are the kids in camps? As a SAHM parent my number one job is childcare. Anything extra is a bonus. You wouldn’t expect the teachers at school, the camp counselors at camp, the daycare teachers to be also doing all your house work, yardwork, shopping, etc.
Anon says
Agreed.
Anonymous says
Generations of moms did all the housework while staying home with the kids.
Anon says
@11:32 yah they did, but that is far from the ideal. Back then husbands also came home and put their feet up with a cocktail all night, should we go back to that? Society was more accepting of kids roaming around by themselves all day (no one calling the police, fewer cars driving around, most moms home to help keep an eye on the group of kids, etc). We should not be holding up 1950s gender norms as the gold standard.
Anon says
That’s just not true. Wealthy women had lots of help even in the 1950s, and I assume earlier.
But even if it were true, just because something was done in the past doesn’t mean it’s the right way for everyone. I think it’s better for the kids to have the SAHP more focused on engaging with them while they’re home, and either outsource housework or split it more equally with the partner who works outside the home.
Spirograph says
@11:32 Parenting was a lot less intensive in previous generations, though.
Anonymous says
I’d love to know how your mom safely mowed a lawn with a baby and a toddler! I’m assuming you are remembering your school aged years. I’m a SAHM and I have biweekly cleaners and a lawn guy. I spend my days taking the kids to fun stuff, making and cleaning up from 3 meals a day, and doing the laundry/general cleanup. Before outsourcing my DH would have to watch the kids while I deep cleaned so they didn’t you know try to drink the bleach. Then I’d watch them while he did the lawn (we have a big corner lot). We are much happier this way. I do have dinner waiting every night and generally keep the house tidy, but deep cleaning is different. And some chores do not lend themselves to small children.
Anon says
My grandmother was a SAHM in the 50s and my grandfather still mowed the lawn. That was the traditional “man’s chore” back then, along with taking out the trash.
Anon says
Right? I felt like I spent my entire winter shoveling snow during baby naps while having the monitor playing on my phone to keep an ear on them. Its just not easy to fit it all in. I am home with my kids but have only two hours of time when they are napping and I get a “break” to work on things that aren’t them. The older can independent play but the baby needs constant supervision.
Anonymous says
I would never in a million years agree to my husband’s being a SAHD. He should be looking for a job now so he has something lined up when the current job ends.
GCA says
Ah, but it’s not about your marriage.
Anonymous says
She asked what expectations should be set, and those are the expectations I’d set. Just one option for her to consider. She doesn’t sound too thrilled about the whole concept.
Anonymous says
Is he going to be a stay at home dad or mom? I’d be worried he’d just be dad-ing and having fun, but if you’re not working I expect to come home to a clean house and dinner most days tbh. Also you need alignment on when a job search is starting.
Anonymous says
This. I know several families with SAHDs, and not one of those dads cooks and cleans the way SAHMs are expected to. They just kind of bum around with the kids. The breadwinner moms have to do just as much of the housework and household management as moms with husbands who work.
Anonymous says
My husband is a sahd. He does all the child care, shopping, most of the cooking, and cleaning. He takes her on outings and makes sure she gets fresh air every day. Several days a week he makes me breakfast before I start work. The only part I consistently do is buying toys, but thats because I enjoy researching about child development. Sometimes I cook, especially if our daughter has had a challenging day and he needs some time to chill.
Those dads are just being bums, if theyre not doing their share. I hate the idea of Dad-ing vs Mom-ing. Its parenting. If dad is slacking, he needs to improve. But don’t blame it on just the fact of him being a dad. Dads are perfectly capable.
Anonymous says
This is the way it should be.
lawyermom1029 says
My husband is also a stay at home dad. He is amazing in a way I don’t think I could be. He cooks me breakfast almost every morning, and makes me a sandwich for lunch (most work days unless we are rushed), and cleans when he has time throughout the day. However, his job is 100 percent the kids. Anything extra is a bonus, but with two small children, I care more about him engaging with the kids then making the house spotless. We do have a cleaning service every other week and I immediately jump on board with 50/50 parenting/household duties when I get home from work. I work long hours and he has made my life so much easier then when we were struggling with dealing with childcare and two working parents. We both grew up in very traditional households and live in a very conservative state. It has been amazing the negative comments we receive about him staying at home, but realistically, I think he works harder as a SAHD then I do at work.
Mary Moo Cow says
I think you are wise to recognize that if you don’t share expectations, there will be consequences. When my DH gave part-time work and part-time childcare a try, we tried to lay out clear, thorough, and reasonable expectations of child and house chores. We had a baby at the time, so my responsibility was to pump and he was in charge of all bottle and pump washing (all of it: inventory, washing, sterilizing, drying, putting away. The “all of it” sometimes gets lost in the discussion.) I understood that I wouldn’t be coming home to a spotless house every night and really lowered expectations as to dishes, laundry, etc. If I absolutely needed clean, dry, and folded dish towels, I asked him the night before and left a reminder note in the AM. We didn’t talk about it, but I planned to give him some time in the evenings and on the weekends to be by himself, so if you know one or both of you are going to need alone time to recharge, try to set negotiable parameters ahead of time. We didn’t and this was our biggest stress point. Good luck!
Anonie says
For sure get on the same page about job hunting. If he’s going to take the position that watching the kids is full time work that precludes job hunting, you need to know that. Why have y’all made the choice for him to be a SAHD for the summer, rather than putting the kids in childcare and having him actively work toward getting a job and hopefully finding one within the next month or two?
On the SAHD side, some issues to agree on: (1) what chores if any will you be expecting him to do during the day (2) will he make dinner every night (3) what is he going to feed the kids during the day, i.e., will he be running them to grab fast food all the time (4) is he expected to take them out of the house to do activities and if so how often and what kind (5) how much screen time are the kids going to have during the day (6) is everyone going to be able to be in PJs all day or is he expected to get them dressed/hygiened
Deedee says
Will he be a SAHD on purpose for a defined length of time? Or will he be unemployed and job hunting? I think those are two different conversations. My guess from your post is that he’ll intentionally stay unemployed through the summer for childcare purposes and look for a job after that? I would clarify exactly what timeline you both think it would be beneficial for him to stay at home. I don’t really think it’s reasonable for him to have all the responsibilities of a FT SAHD and be seriously job hunting at the same time, so I would define the offramp. It’s one thing to do FT childcare while also taking a peek at LinkedIn weekly and scheduling a networking coffee two, but seriously seeking employment I would expect to take a good bit more time (and possibly some childcare during the workweek for networking, interviewing).
As far as the SAH discussion: I think this should be an open discussion about how much chore-doing is reasonable while also supervising kids. My guess is that this is highly dependent on the age and number of children. I’d also clarify how you’ll manage finances while he’s not bringing in income.
Anonymous says
But if OP were job-hunting, she’d have to do it on top of her FT job and parenting. Why can’t he look for a job while he’s staying home with the kids?
Anon says
Many women keep kids in childcare after being laid off if they’re planning to job hunt and find something else soon. I don’t see this any differently.
Anonymous says
I always thought that was so they didn’t lose their spots.
Anon says
I’m sure that’s a factor for many people, but it’s also so they have focused time to job hunt.
Spirograph says
How much do you rely on his income? If he doesn’t pick up serious job hunting until the kids are back in school, and therefore doesn’t have full time work again until, say, October, will that be a financial burden? Because if not, this sounds like a dream. To me, summer is supposed to be relaxed and fun, and a stay-at-home parent can achieve that way more easily than 2 working parents can. And a stay-at-home parent can make life a lot easier on the working parent.
My husband was a SAHD during covid. Not quite the same, since he *did* still have a job to go back to, he just could not work for several months, but the end result of him being the primary parent while I was working was the same. He did All The Things. Took the kids hiking (all playgrounds were closed forever, here), shooed them out in the yard with a sprinkler, grocery shopped, prepped lunch for the kids and many family dinners, kept the house from turning into a complete disaster with all 5 of us home all day every day. Covid was a stressful time for a lot of reasons, but I don’t remember running into any strife over division of responsibilities. We lowered our standards a little and did our best, assumed the other was doing their best, and talked constantly to make sure we were on the same page. <– that's way more important than a one-time level-set (I know you know that, but just to foot-stomp).
IMO, if your husband is not working, homemaking is his day job. I'd set minimum standards — he's responsible for lunch, running routine errands, light housekeeping/making sure the kids don't leave their stuff everywhere, and childcare during your workday (including minimizing kid disruptions to *your* workday if you work from home). Mornings and evenings, I'd keep the same division of labor you have now. And if you already have a housecleaning service and can afford to keep it on one income, definitely do that.
Anono says
Go on a walk together and talk about it together from a place of mutual trust. Don’t build up a huge anxiety-ridden attack plan before you even know what he’s thinking. Give him a chance to shine. Show your support as a first step.
Stay-at-home Dad experiences? says
Thank you for your thoughts so far. I’m finding these posts eye opening (and I’d much rather my eyes be opened now). Let me add a few details about our situation – We have one kid, age 4. I believe (but should explicitly clarify) that I think DH is interested in being a stay-at-home Dad over the summer, between pre-K and K.
Anonymous says
I would have a really, really hard time agreeing to let my spouse stay home and have fun with a 4-year-old all summer. That’s something I would love to do but will never get the chance to do because I have to work.
Anon says
That’s… really selfish. It would be great for the kid. Why deny your child this fantastic summer because you’re jealous? Maybe my perspective is different because I have a professor spouse but this is pretty close to our reality (DH works, but very lightly and often at odd hours, in summers). Yes, I’m jealous but I didn’t choose a career like teaching where I could do this. It’s not fair to punish my child for my jealously.
Anonymous says
Yeah my initial reaction to this comment was yikes that’s a terrible reason not to have a SAH spouse.
Spirograph says
+1 It’s not like the dad’s quitting his job to have fun… his work dried up for reasons beyond his control and is presenting an really great opportunity for the dad and child (assuming a temporary work stoppage isn’t a financial hardship).
Anon says
That seems petty.
octagon says
It’s worth reading Fair Play (or getting the cards) so that you have a clear idea of how your household tasks are going to be divided up. Do you need to discuss a budget for activities or other child care? My DH is prone to wanting to spend off-days at expensive outings like aquariums, amusement parks, etc. — which is fine but would be good to be aligned on. Do you have a regular babysitter(s) that you can call in if he needs to do something job-related? When will he start applying to new jobs?
Anon says
Omg do you all have any idea how controlling you sound? How would you feel if your job ended and your spouse wanted you to explicitly agree on a timeline of your job search, agree on what chores need to be done weekly, decide what outings are acceptable or too expensive (yes to the library but no to the aquarium, ughh let’s snuff out all the potential joy out of the summer right up front ). You would probably feel like your spouse was jumping all over you! Marriage is about trust and mutual respect, not just about preparing a list of demands because you assume it will be a disaster if you don’t micromanage every second of his life.
Anonymous says
Dude is proposing to quit working and spend months loafing around with the kid, presumably spending money while doing so. That requires some shared expectations. If I just decided not to have a job my husband would probably divorce me.
Anon says
+1
Anonymous says
My husband and I discussed my quitting a toxic job without something else lined up and this was exactly the conversation we had. What’s the plan to get a new job? How will we manage the loss of income? A marriage is a partnership, and one partner can’t just unilaterally make changes to their economic contribution. (I have not quit yet, primarily because it’s easier to find a new job while employed.)
Anon says
Omg he’s losing his job not “loafing around.” Have some empathy, 11:50. I’ve lost my job twice and if my husband had reacted like you’re reacting we’d be divorced but it would have been my choice. Good grief.
Anon says
I’m not sure why you think this wasn’t a mutual decision and they haven’t discussed finances? You seem to be projecting a lot of your own issues into OP.
Anon says
If a man described his stay at home wife as “loafing with the kid,” he would be a dick.
octagon says
OP asked for suggestions about things to consider, these are suggestions. I don’t think it’s controlling to want to have conversations up front about things, but maybe your marriage is different! Everyone has to find what works for them. I suggest you bring some of that trust and mutual respect to your comments. I trust OP will decide what’s important to raise and how to raise it in the context of her own family.
Anonymous says
With this new information I’d suggest the following: definitely sit down and have a conversation about expectations. I’d say main priority is to have fun with kiddo – set a budget and a bucket list. Then come up with a list of chores that must be done daily/weekly – eg kitchen must be clean when I get home from work (I wfh and this is my non-negotiable for myself but ymmv). Then have a conversation about “nice to haves” like tidying. It sounds like I’m treating him like a nanny but if my DH were in charge of the kids they’d go fishing every day, make a project in the garage and tear my house apart. So I have to line out stuff like “when the toddlers nap, do some laundry and pile the toys into one area.” I’d also be clear that job hunting isn’t a priority or whatever you decide. I’d love you to do a week in the life this fall so you can report how this goes.
GCA says
This, and it would/ should be a real conversation, not a list of demands. And I’d say both OP and husband should be realistic about what can get done in the time they have each day. (I know I was wildly overambitious about what I’d be able to do each day on my first maternity leave.) He may not get as far in the job search as you both hope if his industry is quiet over summer. He may not get as much laundry or cleanup done if he’s out all day with kiddo. And, I’d rope the 4-year-old into the household activities as well. A pre-Ker can certainly help with tidying if you do it as a game or ritual each day – they do it all the time at daycare.
Anon says
If it’s only for the summer I think you’re probably overthinking it.
Anono says
For real.
Anonymous says
Disagree. The summer is a lot of lost income, and what if he loses momentum in the job search? He could easily be out of work for a year or more.
Anon says
I meant overthinking the division of responsibilities. The financial aspect is a different question but she didn’t ask about that so I assume it’s not a big issue for them.
Anon says
Yeesh, people really do regard money as the end-all be-all around here. You can spend all your time making money…
Anonymous says
Money is only a non-issue for those who have a ton of it. Like the people who somehow have money for housekeeping services.
Anon says
Money is certainly not a “non-issue” for my family, but it wasn’t the focus of the question so I think it’s weird to zero on it. I think it’s a fair assumption that they can make this work financially or it wouldn’t even be on the table. Also worth noting that it sounds like the child isn’t in year-round daycare, so the money saved on summer childcare is likely significant. It may not replace his salary, but it has to help and if you want to talk finances and him “loafing around” you have to factor in the money they’re saving by him providing childcare for those ~3 months.
Anon says
Not the point, but biweekly house cleaners is a pretty middle class thing at this point. Almost everyone we know has one, and these are families earning high five figure and low six figure household incomes, not people bringing in $500k a year.
Anon says
Given that your child is 4, I don’t think you need to have that much discussion about this works over the summer. His job over the summer is providing childcare (I’m assuming you’re saving significant money on camps and/or a nanny?), and you continue on dividing chores how you have been. And I would feel exactly the same way if the genders were reversed. If he’s still unemployed come fall, I think that’s when you have a conversation about what extra responsibilities he picks up around the house with your child in K from 9-3ish.
Anonymous says
What it really sounds like is that OP is worried he won’t look for a job and the unemployment will extend indefinitely.
Anon says
That sounds more like your worry than OP’s but ok. If she’s worried about it, it’s certainly fair to address it up front.
Anonymous says
WOW there is some anti-SAH hate in here. Here are my thoughts, in no particular order:
You have one child. She is 4. She will only be 4 once. You don’t have (for now?) other kids so this is your family’s one chance to enjoy her childhood (if you actually enjoy it– some people don’t!). You have the opportunity to let your family take it easy this summer- fewer camps, one working parent. Even if it’s a slight financial strain, go for it and do not look back.
Background: Dh and I both used to have Big Jobs. I was laid off when pregnant with #2 and started a part time consulting practice. It changed things for me. COVID hit a few years later and DH became FT WFH. It was like the seas changed and all of a sudden he realized what he was missing out on spending long hours at the office (he also turned 40, so I think it was an inflection point as well). He never went back to the office and moved into a less stressful role (shifted from foot-on-accelerator at work to cruise control, same pay). We have 3 kids and they are all now in elem school. For all the suck that came along with COVID, I credit that with shifting the way our family operates. Work is now a thing that we do to pay the bills, as needed, no more. We adjusted our lifestyle to “approximately 1.5 incomes” which in our case is a HHI of $275-300k. Some years we make a lot more; some years we are right at $275. If either one of us had to, we could take a job that made that amount (likely a bit more) individually, but it would be another Big Job.
I say you have a convo with your husband about the long term plan, make sure he gets time to job hunt if his plan is to job hunt, and make sure not to nickel and dime him on what he spends this summer. If the kid isn’t going to camp you are saving thousands. Let her go to a part time camp for a few weeks (my youngest, going into K, is doing 3 weeks of camp 9-1. My oldest is doing a week of sleepaway and 2 weeks of daycamp; middle is doing 3 weeks of daycamp. We have a 2 week family vacation planned and the rest of the summer will be swim team, tennis team, afternoons at the pool and evenings on the softball field. Weekends will be day trips. I have about 200 hours of work for the summer and don’t plan to do anything more.
Anon says
I think it’s anit-SAHD specifically, not anti-SAH in general. A lot of the women here have really toxic ideas about men in caregiving roles. I don’t judge anyone who wants to stay home, man or woman, because it’s their life not mine, but I think it’s especially awesome for dads to do it and model it for kids.
Stay-at-home Dad experiences? says
Thanks all – you’ve definitely given us a lot to talk about. This is an option my husband brought up last night and it took me by surprise. Financially it’s doable for us since I’m the primary breadwinner and I can see the appeal of our kid having a fun summer hanging out with Dad. My goal is to avoid introducing conflict on our marriage over a dramatic (if temporary) shift of roles. I’m also concerned that DH will start job hunting just in time for Q4 (not sure if it’s universal but in my industry we do almost no hiring at the end of the year).
Stay-at-home Dad experiences? says
And it was good to get an explicit warning against my worst instinct: to come home, put my feet up, and ask for my cocktail.
anon1 says
SAH dynamic aside, and admittedly I have no idea what industry he is in, but in this economy there are a LOT of layoffs happening and/or planned (I work in real estate and our space-planning team is adamant more is coming as companies plan to downsize footprints, etc). I feel like more time to job hunt is needed these days, not less. Taking a summer fully off from it in hopes of making progress starting Sept 1 is potentially doing him a disservice in a tough environment and creating unintended tensions come Q4 if he’s still had little luck/leads.
Anon says
Yeah it’s slow in a lot of industries. I’ve been applying for over a year without so much as an interview. Admittedly I’m employed and being choosier than I would be if unemployed but still… it’s rough.
Anonymous says
@CB fascinating article about Belfast public schools in todays NYTimes. I was shocked how few are integrated and even those have prayer in school. Do they not have any public schools without any religion there?
Cb says
Oh gosh, I’ll look it out. It’s the big reason we haven’t made the move as we don’t fit in either religious community. But honestly, even Scottish schools are super religious as well. We got a whole spiel from my 5 year old on the crucifixion last week. He’s at the state school, not the catholic state school.
Cb says
And apparently the Irish language schools are less religious? More vehemently nationalist but less catholic.
Anon says
Most public schools in other countries have some element of religion. The US is pretty unique in the separation of church and state.
Cb says
Yes, but Northern Irish society is intensely divided by religion, and something like 80% of the population doesn’t have a friend from the opposite community. So less a state religion than two competing state religions.
Anonymous says
I just wanted to add my two cents to the homeschool discussion yesterday…because we homeschool! I’m a longtime reader of the site who left working years ago to stay home with kids.
1) I wouldn’t homeschool out of fear. It won’t sustain you, and really if this is your fear then you should avoid all stores, churches, banks, parades, concerts etc..
2) socialization – the big one that is misunderstood! Homeschoolers have a TON of opportunities for socialization. The internet and Facebook groups have enabled this. Currently my homeschooler attends a farm program once a week for 6hrs with other homeschoolers and teachers. In 2yrs when her sibling can attend she’ll go twice a week. They take care of animals, garden, do a hour of art, and tons of free play/child led learning. She also does gymnastics, swimming, Sunday school, and a weekly homeschool play date which is 3hrs straight of multi aged kids playing outside. We also meet up with public school friends at playgrounds after school is out (3:30). She’s with other kids almost every day of the week.
3) Religion – we are Christian but not fundamentalist. Most homeschoolers we know (DC area) are secular and there’s a massive amount of secular homeschooling groups and curriculum. This is not an issue depending on your area.
4) reasons we homeschool – time and flexibility. Homeschool is not school at home and without a classroom to manage, sit down lessons go VERY quickly and she’s above grade level for reading/math. We are always finished by 11am, and then the rest of the day is playing (mostly outside), extracurriculars, field trips, etc… seat work will gradually increase as the kids get older but it’s still very efficient. We aren’t beholden to a school calendar and can take vacays when we want or take days off for beautiful weather.
Anon says
I don’t have it in me to homeschool and I know it would result in too much fighting between me and my strong-willed kid, but I think it can be a really positive thing and it sounds like it’s going wonderfully for your family. I agree with #1 though – both that this isn’t a decision you should make out of fear and that schools are no riskier than other public places so if you’re only doing it to avoid school shootings it doesn’t make any sense.
Anon says
Yah, I think most people are reacting to the “homeschooling” they saw in the 90s. There has been a big resurgence of homeschooling in the last 5ish years and it hardly resembles the 90s version. Or people are confusing it with remote learning, when parents had to oversee a curriculum and requirements set by the school. Also a horrible comparison.
I have often been tempted by homeschooling for all the reasons you mentioned (I’m a SAHM). For now, I try to fit in tons of reading aloud, low-key days of playing at home, and fun family adventures during the summers and school breaks.
Spirograph says
Without the detail that it sounds like you have only one child, I’d wonder if you’re my neighbor, because this is what their homeschool experience seems to be from my outside-looking-in perspective. I daydream about it often, and that farm program sounds amazing!
Anon says
She said the kid has a sibling.
Spirograph says
That was very much the most important point of my post, so thank you for correcting.
For avoidance of doubt: I meant one homeschooled child, as compared to my neighbor who has five school-age children.
Anon says
Not sure why the snark, I was just trying to clarify.
Anonymous says
OP here – we have 2 kids :) younger one was in PT preschool this year but will be homeschooled next year.
Anon says
Thanks for sharing. I know people who homeschool and I often wonder why they do it but feel it would be rude to ask why.
Anonymous says
OP here – I think most homeschoolers would love to answer your questions! We just don’t love if it’s accusatory or “BUT WHAT ABOUT SOCIALIZATION” or “HOW WILL YOUR KIDS FUNCTION IN THE REAL WORLD” when in fact my kids are at the library, grocery store, and home improvement store much more than other kids.
Anon says
I carried about 20 extra pounds during COVID. During this time, after a lifetime of very light periods, I started getting super heavy periods, and also got CRAZY PMS — I would get rage angry like a week before my period, and then a weepy mess the day before my period actually came. I chalked it up to peri-menopause, and just assumed my cycle was changing as I was aging, and was exploring some of the anti-depressants that are supposed to ease PMS symptoms. As I have become more active with COVID restrictions easing, I have lost about 5 pounds, and my periods are correspondingly lighter. My PMS symptoms seem considerably eased as well. Is this a thing? Are lighter periods associated with fewer PMS symptoms? Or is this correlation, not causation? I’m astounded, as I was really struggling with whether to medicate or not.
Anon says
Weight absolutely affects hormones. I wish it didn’t, but it’s a known factor.
Anonymous says
And hormones (including artificial ones) affect weight, as much as my OB/GYN claims they don’t. It can be a vicious cycle.
Anon says
Fat tissue produces estrogen, but not as much as the ovaries produce. Obesity influences hormones and could definitely lead to heavier menses and more PMS symptoms.
OOO says
Also chiming in on the anxiety around school shootings. I live in MI and had connections to the shooting at Oxford and MSU. I decided to channel my anxiety into doing everything I can to make sure my son would not have to worry about mass shootings once he is school-age (or at his preschool). I joined our local chapter of Moms Demand Action and campaigned for gun sense candidates, and we flipped our state legislature from red to blue for the first time in 40 years. Yesterday our governor signed several bills aimed at preventing gun violence. It’s a major victory, but the work is not done. I am on our preschool’s Parent Advisory Committee and am bringing workshops developed by Sandy Hook Promise on preventing social isolation to our preschool. Activism makes me feel less helpless.
Anonymous says
Thank you!!!
Anonymous says
Thank you for doing this! This is what I love to hear!
Anonymous says
Spinoff of the dress code discussion above, also inspired by a recent conversation I had IRL with some other women in their 40s: Do you think there is a generational difference in attitudes towards clothing, explicit videos (trying to avoid mod), etc.? I am in my 40s and remember growing up being taught that “adult entertainment” was exploitative and degrading even if the performers supposedly consented, whereas people a decade younger than me generally seem to regard it as “empowering” and “entrepreneurial” and ignore the powerful societal and economic forces that influence women’s choices. Similarly, many women my age seem to believe that certain clothing styles pander to men, whereas many younger women seem to be of the opinion that it’s empowering to wear whatever they want and that no one else should even dare to look at them.
Anon says
Decade younger than you and I think it’s all degrading and exploitative. It’s a longer conversation than can be had here, but suffice it to say that I’ve been called names for being “not the fun kind” of feminist. My general rule is that if my feminism is the same as what a pimp wants, it’s not feminism.
Anon says
+1. I don’t live by a relativist code of conduct that doing whatever you want is healthy and empowering. And the mental health of teenage girls is severely suffering right now (see all sorts of recent articles) so I don’t think the current views of sexuality and “freedom” are serving anyone
anon says
This. I have two kids, ages 13 and 8, and it honestly makes me sad to see how the 13-year-old girls are dressing (shorts barely covering the butt, plus crop tops), and how my 8-year-old sees it and wants to keep up with what the older girls are doing. I’m turning into my mom, I guess, because I don’t see this as a positive thing at all. Who is this all for? You can’t tell me that it’s super empowering for a 13-year-old to be barely clothed at school.
Anon says
Here’s my guess as to the change in how people view these things. I grew up in the 80s. I don’t know a single woman of my generation who got through their teenage years without at least one (often multiple) instances of non-consensual s*xual encounters that today we call assault, but then we just called boys being boys. With such a radically different idea of what consent meant and looked like, it was hard to understand how a woman involved in the adult industry could be there without some level of coercion involved.
I hope that’s not the case for girls today. At the same time, I really wish there were better examples of how to be ’empowered’ as a woman for reasons other than how well you fill out a bikini. You know what I find empowering? Having power. Leading. Being in charge of big decisions that positively impact lots of people, irrespective of whether or not my Revenge Body is in tip top shape.
And sure, *can you* wear crop tops to work? Sure – but why? Granted, we’ve established that I’m An Old – but when I see you wearing that, my first thought isn’t going to be ‘wow, look at that empowered young woman’ but rather, ‘wow, that doesn’t seem work appropriate.’ I never want to see coworkers midriffs, at any age or for any reason.
Anonymous says
I think the current focus on “consent” is a red herring. There is still a whole lot of social and individual pressure to “consent,” and there is also an attitude that it’s okay to ask for unreasonable, degrading things as long as you get “consent.”
Anon says
I sort of come at it from a different perspective, which is that as a fat woman my body is considered inherently unsuitable to be shown so I do view it as empowering to wear more revealing clothes in appropriate settings sometimes. I mean, not work or even a family pool party or wedding. But in general.
OP says
That makes sense, and I would agree that not wearing a muumuu everywhere is empowering. I am talking about the people of all sizes who insist that wearing revealing clothing outside of “appropriate settings” is a form of empowerment.
anon says
In my 30s and I also think it’s degrading and exploitative. I think girls are s3xualized from a young age (see today’s main board posts on revealing outfits for middle school athletes) and those girls grow into women who don’t even realize it.
What you wear affects how others perceive you; it’s a simple fact.
Anon says
And how you perceive YOURSELF. Be honest – many girls and women dress for the male gaze, to look cute and sexy for others. I don’t focus on modesty as necessary to protect your reputation; I focus on respecting yourself and choosing what is fitting and proper for your own self-worth and comfort.
Anon says
Not sure there’s only one way to be comfortable or respectful of your self though.
Anon says
I think it’s more complicated than proper vs dressing for a male gaze. Boys take off shirts to play basketball because it’s hot out. Shouldn’t it also be that girls play basketball in sports bras because it’s hot out? Yes, there’s also an element of boobs, but if you’re bigger and wearing a shirt in 90* weather because you’re not comfortable showing your midriff, isn’t that also dressing for the male gaze? Because you’re worried about how you look in just a sports bra?
I was a teen in the 90s and wore pants even to co-ed soccer practice during the summer because I was hiding my supposed saddle bags, as one boyfriend called them. It was the height of heroin chic and although thin, I did not have Kate Moss’s body. Covering myself up completely in baggy clothes was just as much about the male gaze as it was about modesty, and it was just as degrading and exploitative.
Anon says
Yeah I’ve worn modest clothes for other people’s comfort more than revealing ones.
Anonymous says
Shorts and sports bras = appropriate athletic attire. Skimpy shorts and crop tops in the classroom = for the benefit of boys.
anon says
I miss 1990s feminism Riot Grrl feminism tbh. I came of age when Reviving Ophelia had just come out; I felt like my generation had a lived experience of a societal awakening about the impact of unrealistic media on female body image. Our heroes were Courtney Love and the Indigo Girls and Ani DiFranco; we were (even those of us who were straight) very heavily influenced by l*sbian culture and pretty outwardly defiant of male expectations in many, many ways. I see my tween daughter now and she does not have any female media figures to look up to like that now – everyone who fits that mold now seems to identify as nonbinary, which doesn’t resonate with my kid.
Anon says
That’s nice for you. I started high school in 1997 and got none of that, just an eating disorder. I’d rather my daughter have today’s body positive influencers, imperfect as they are, than what I lived through. Though I guess what she’ll really get is Ozempic so yay.
Anon says
(Replying to myself). Like at least she’s not growing up with the message that anyone above a size 6 is fundamentally unloveable the way I did. That’s a lot. I’m happy about various expressions of gender too. I certainly wasn’t exposed to lesbian culture even growing up in a big liberal city. I got Brittney Spears, who I have no issue with but. At least know kids see options even if that means more won’t resonate for all of them.
OP says
So that is exactly my point. Those of us in our 40s got tough-girl messages. 30-somethings got Britney.
Anon says
Is it a trend now to pull rising K-ers out of play-based daycare/preschool so they can do summer camps? A bunch of my daughter’s daycare classmates are leaving in May so they can be enrolled in camps over the summer. I don’t see the point of camp when we have daycare, I guess it’s a bit cheaper but it’s way less convenient and my daughter is happy and settled where she is so I don’t see the point in disrupting that. We’re not doing it (it’s too late anyway) but just curious if this is something other people have done or seen others do?
Boston Legal Eagle says
I don’t know if it’s a trend but we didn’t do it with my older kid and don’t plan to with my younger kid. I also don’t see the point of camps when daycare gives you full time childcare, at a place that they know. K was enough of a transition for my older kid, I don’t think he would have done well with two transitions.
Anonymous says
We did it, largely to meet kids that would be in her grade going into K. Also, we were easing off the daycare schedule and into a more school type schedule.
My youngest is going to K next year and she’s not doing anything all summer since my older kids will be home.
Spirograph says
I don’t want to be one of those “just wait til your kid is older, and the REAL problems start” people but I did not fully appreciate how freaking amazing year round daycare was until it wasn’t an option. If you work full time, pulling your kid out of daycare before kindergarten is like raising your hand to ask for more homework.
I can think of only one good reason to do it, and that’s if you’re taking extended summer vacation and don’t want to pay for a bunch of weeks of daycare you don’t need.
The other reasons I’ve heard I consider to be pretty poor:
1. “To help the kids meet more people they’ll be in school with in K” (nope, they’ll meet them the first day of school and it will be fine)
2. For exposure to a sport/skill (ok I guess, but why not wait til after K when those camps will still be there and you don’t have an easier option?)
Anon says
I’m with you – any potential benefit of a camp vs. the only-in-daycare-years benefit of full time, day long care for kids would never be a trade I’d make willingly.
Signed, my 8-year old is signed up for 17 different summer camps this year, mix of full and part day – all over freakin’ town. And I still have gaps in care for days or sometimes weeks at a time.
Boston Legal Eagle says
For 1 – my older kid had about 4 kids from his daycare start at the same school! Camp would have been worse in that sense.
I will also keep signing my kids up for consistent YMCA type camps all summer for as long as they let me… not looking forward to piecing together weeks here and there.
Anon says
Same! I’m lucky that so far my kid has expressed zero interest in ‘specialty’ camps and just wants to play and run around with other kids, so the Y or parks and rec camp is the best bet for her. The parks and rec camp is really cheap, across the street from our house, and has 7:30-5:30 care every day of summer break except weekends and state holidays. It’s actually much easier for us than daycare was.
Anonymous says
Our YMCA has specialty camps that are the best. They do a Harry Potter camp where they turn a shed into Hogwarts, with an acceptance letter from the headmistress, a sorting hat that talks, a house tournament, a Quidditch match, potions, and all sorts of other fun stuff. They’ve also had sewing, knitting, Lego, rock climbing, and a bunch of others I can’t remember. All of this with full-day coverage, daily swim lessons, and YMCA rates.
FVNC says
+1. I kept both my kids in their awesome daycares until the last possible second. Even when it meant two drop-offs/pick-ups.
Summer camps here end at 4 at the latest, which means the work day effectively ends at 3:30 in the summer (with a second shift later).
Anon says
I have a few friends who did, but they’re from a culture (Chinese-American) where there’s more emphasis on formal academics at a young age. Personally I wanted to delay academics as long as possible. If daycare for 7 year olds existed, I would send my kid there, lol.
Anon says
I know people who did it to have one drop off – i.e., if you have an older child who can’t attend the daycare, but is doing summer camps, you can send them both together. Having messed up drop off/pick up times on numerous occasions, this seems like a valid reason to me.
Spirograph says
Oh true, that’s a good one! I went the opposite direction and signed my older kids up for YMCA camp because my youngest was still in YMCA daycare. :)
HSAL says
We pulled my oldest out of daycare a month early – she did two different camps for two weeks, one week of vacation, and one short week of bumming around. Honestly I just thought it sounded like fun and we had the flexibility to make it happen. I think it really activated her “oh I’m a big kid now” in a way that going straight from daycare on Friday to K on Monday wouldn’t have.
Anon says
We have an almost two week gap between the end of the daycare year and the start of the public school so even without camps it won’t be straight from one to the other. Planning one week family vacation and one short week of special mother-daughter activities with some grandparent help.
Anonymous says
If you are traveling a lot, you can pay for camps week by week vs paying for the whole summer of daycare. If you aren’t worried about keeping your spot for the fall I can see doing that. (In fact, we are doing it because my husband is home in the summer due to his career field and so we don’t need full time care, but do want a few weeks here and there when he has conferences or major house projects)
EDAnon says
We did it because my son just missed the school cutoff and was almost 6 by June. He was really bored in preschool and camp gave him a fun outlet. It was also hosted at his school so gave him exposure the the building, which ended up being great.