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Fallen says
When is everyone getting their kids a phone? My kid tells me all her friends are getting one in 5th grade but it seems so early!
Anon says
5th-6th grade is pretty normal where I am.
Anon says
We got our 4th grader a cell phone watch. That way she can call/text us and we can call/text her (allowing us to give her more freedom) but with zero social media. She can’t call or receive calls from anyone who isn’t on an approved list. So far that list is only parents, grandparents and her nanny.
Cb says
The 5th/6th graders at my son’s school seem to have phones, but I want to hold out as much as possible. T is only 5, but has decided when he moves to the upper campus (3rd grade equivalent), he’ll be ready to walk home from school, which seems fairly reasonable. At that point, we’d get one of the watches. A 2nd grade equivalent pal walks with a group of kids, and she has a watch.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Middle school starts in 5th grade in our town, so I expect that’s when the questions will start, especially when they see the “older kids” (i.e. 8th graders) with phones. I’d like to wait until at least 7th grade, but we’ll see.
EP-er says
What do you mean by phone — something to make a phone call or a smart phone with wifi/data? Why does your child need a phone & how do you expect them to use it? Does your child participate in activities where they are waiting for a pick up? I think that these answers will help you decide if it is right for your family.
We agree that 8th grade is appropriate for our family. At this age, they are out doing things with friends independently and I think that being able to get in touch is important. They are (sort of? mostly?) responsible. We have ground rules about charging the phone downstairs every evening and approval for apps to be installed. We don’t allow social media, but they aren’t into that right now anyway.
octagon says
We are planning to get kiddo a Gabb watch next year, in 3rd grade, so he can call home if needed and we can keep an eye on him. I expect we will be in the minority but it’s going to be middle school at least before a phone, and even then we expect to prohibit social media. There’s too much risk for kids, and it’s impossible to keep tabs on where those risks are. A relative uses Bark to help monitor her kids usage (flags you if there are concerning topics being discussed online or in texts) and we likely will do the same.
Anon says
Gosh. We aren’t there yet but are planning to “wait until 8th”. Maybe a simple phone like Gabb a year or two earlier if it seems necessary. But if everyone else has a phone, I’ll probably just have my kids memorize my phone number and use their friends’ phones if it’s urgent!
EDAnon says
We are also doing wait until 8th but have talked about doing a call home watch thing before then. Oldest is in K though.
Anonymous says
My son will likely be taking transit alone to 6th grade next fall (we’re in NYC), so we are planning to get him some kind of dumb phone or maybe a smart watch before then. I need him to have a way to text and make calls on his commute. But my instinct is to try to avoid a full on smart phone for longer if we can. Apparently enough kids have smart watches and phones now that his elementary school just instituted a policy about not using them during the day.
Anonymous says
Mine is in 3rd right now (also NYC) but this is our plan. Maybe 5th if she starts walking home from school then. She currently has an iPad and a kids specific texting app that she uses to communicate with her BFFs who go to another school and it’s been an interesting learning experience for all of us. Facetiming is also big in this group too — holdover from the early pandemic days when “iPad playdates” were how we bought ourselves a half hour here and there.
Mary Moo Cow says
Firmly team wait until 8th for a smart phone, especially with the WaPo parenting newsletter “what kids want you to know about phones” and other news about phones being linked to decline in kids’ mental health that hit my feed this week.
Anonymous says
Middle school for our kids — they each went to different middle schools as the lone kid in our neighborhood getting on their bus. When they had bus subs and the bus driver seemed to be lost, was reassuring to them that they could reach out to us and we could see where they were. They have chromebooks since COVID, so their brains would be rotting anyway. This way, they can be more independent and chat with their friends (walk to tea place after and then I can pick up on my way home from work) if they don’t take the bus. And sometimes, they have been on the wrong bus or their bus is an hour late and I can get them on my way home. Ugh. I hate it, but it has also been useful to have.
Spirograph says
This hasn’t come up in my house recently…I’m generally in favor of waiting longer than my husband is. Definitely not before 6th grade, which is when middle school starts in our district.
My oldest is in 4th grade and several of his friends have smart watches that can only call/text approved contacts and emergency services. I looked into those but I just don’t like adding more electronics to my kids lives.
Anon says
I got my oldest a phone in 4th, and my youngest will probably get one in 3rd. They aren’t allowed to take it to school and it doesn’t have social media, plus we have screen time and content limits set up. But it’s invaluable for giving them the independence to meet up with friends at the park, text with friends, and be able to stay home alone while a parent runs a quick errand.
We’ve had many talks about phone safety and responsibility. We know the passwords and regularly talk through things on their phone (we talk about each app, what it is, how it’s played, how much they use it, and scroll through text messages and browser history and how nothing is truly erased on the internet). We have a standing rule that if they ever come across something inappropriate (whether in an ad or a chat or if a friend uses their phone at a sleepover) they can ask us for help immediately and they won’t get in trouble.
I used to spend hours on the family home phone when I was in fourth grade, and I used to wander all around town while my parents had no idea where I was or who I was with. In this world, we don’t have a home phone and it’s no longer acceptable to let kids be free range, so a cell phone allows them to have those same experiences. We’re actively parenting and hopefully teaching them good behaviors, so I don’t see a harm.
Anon says
5th grade so that I could tell him when he needed to get his younger siblings and walk them home. Nanny was unreliable. Most kids in our area get one in 5th/6th grade (but our kids didn’t ask for one, it was foisted on them for communication purposes).
GCA says
Does anyone here live in or around Minneapolis? We are daydreaming about a move to be closer to family (and lower COL). The niblings there attend private Catholic school, which isn’t our jam, so I am curious about your experiences with neighborhoods and schools. Looking for high racial & socioeconomic diversity and a strong sense of community. Currently in a Boston burb that feels like a city (decent public transit & amenities, a growing downtown) and a small town (everyone seems to know everyone else) at the same time, which is great except for housing prices.
Anon says
I’m not in Minneapolis but we live in a neighboring state and we have two sets of good friends in Minneapolis/burbs. My husband is an academic so we didn’t have much say in where we moved for his tenure-track job, but U of M in Minneapolis was at the top of our wish list. You have a lot of the advantages of a big city (diversity, culture, great airport) with a lot of the advantages of a smaller town, like low cost of living and great schools. The schools in Minneapolis and its suburbs are famously good. Our friends are super happy there. And in general, I endorse the move to a LCOL area with family nearby. Money goes so much farther in the non-Chicago Midwest (although even Chicago is probably cheap compared to Boston). We earn a lot less than most people on this board, but there’s really nothing that we want and can’t buy. I know it doesn’t work out this way for everyone, but having involved local family can make life so much easier and more fun, and I think growing up near cousins would be wonderful.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Oh no, sad you might be leaving our great state! I love it here, but we’ve got my parents nearby and definitely agree on the HCOL here. I’ve heard good things about Minneapolis but I’ve never been.
Anon says
My in-laws live in St. Louis park. Can’t speak to the diversity but it’s a cute area and pretty close to the main city. FIL works at the university part time.
Nice parks, schools are apparently pretty good
Vicky Austin says
Have you looked across the river at St. Paul? A friend of mine went to public school there and I think it would meet your criteria. The academic opportunities were good too; my friend did International Baccalaureate in HS and still talks about how great it was. I’ll pick their brain a bit and report back.
Vicky Austin says
Friend said: “Both my sister and I loved our experiences at St. Paul public elementary schools, and I feel like I got a world-class education at my high school. I can’t speak to every single school, but there’s a good mix of magnet schools and high-quality neighborhood schools. Some busing policies have changed since I was a kid, which would be worth looking into, but overall we both remain big fans.”
Anon says
Me! We live in a first ring suburb with excellent public schools; schools within St Paul and Msp are a mixed bag, but mostly pretty good. Affordable, walkable neighborhoods to explore include Lake Nokomis in Msp and West 7th and /or Mac Groveland in Stp. Cost of living here is increasing but still nowhere near COL on the coasts. Great food and entertainment; so so public transit (but great bike paths); tons of job opportunities with one of the lowest rates of unemployment in the country.
GCA says
Thanks, everyone! We are actually visiting BIL and SIL this weekend – the theory being that if we can survive Minneapolis in February we can survive it all year. Till then, I’ve got to stop browsing Zillow and weeping at how much farther our budget would go there!
Anon says
Google tells me that Minneapolis is considerably colder than Boston, but as someone who lived in Boston for seven years and then made the move to the upper Midwest (Wisconsin), I actually find winter way more tolerable here. I think the fact that I drive everywhere here and took public transit or walked everywhere in Boston is a big factor, so keep that in mind if you currently have a similar lifestyle. That feeling of the bitterly cold wind hitting my face in Boston is something I’ll never forget and not in a good way.
Anonymous says
My sibling finds MN soooooooo much more unbearable than New England. He and his spouse have great, unique jobs (also academia) but otherwise are so ready to be done with MN winter.
Anon says
I grew up in the Mac/Groveland neighborhood of St. Paul, and while I fully admit to rose colored glasses, my childhood was pretty idyllic and I also look at Redfin and weep at how much further my money would go than my current east coast HCOL city. I went to a non-religious private school, but similar to a poster above, my friends attended an IB program at the local public high school and had good experiences. One of them has moved back to the area and lives in the Nokomis area of Minneapolis mentioned earlier. Honestly, even though my family has left the area if it weren’t for the in laws in our current city I would have pushed harder to move back.
Anon says
I live on the outer edge of the Southwest Metro of Minneapolis. Which coincidentally has quite a few catholic schools but there are so many non-religious “free” charter schools along with a good public school offering, it doesn’t strike me as a concern. I’ve had to travel to Boston for work quiet a bit, I will say one perk. If you’re niblings live in an area that is not your particular vibe, I would just keep exploring other areas. If you’re goal is to be able to hang out with family on the weekends, traffic is not nearly as bad as Boston even to get from outer edges into downtown or vice versa.
GCA says
That’s a great point. I-93 traffic is pretty bad all day, every day. It’s part of why we don’t see friends at the other end of the city as often as we’d like, even though we’re only about 10 or 15 miles apart.
Anon says
My husband grew up in Edina and his sister and her family live there now. They have excellent public schools but went to Catholic schools and had great experiences (Our Lady of Grace and Benilde-St. Margarets). I find Edina a little too fancy and quite white. St. Louis Park is also great. My husband’s brother lives in Minneapolis right near the U and they go to Minneapolis public schools and have had a really good experience. We have extended family in Golden Valley, St. Paul, Eagan and Minnetonka. We’re settled now but I would have really considered living up there. Things just feel “easier” than in a bigger city. It’s cheaper, shorter commutes, parking, more access to activities, etc. I have heard it can be insular in the sense that if you didn’t grow up there (or aren’t related to a lot of people), it may be harder to make friends.
Anon Today says
We live in MacGroveland which is a darling neighborhood in St. Paul. I loved it before the pandemic. Now crime is up across the metro and some great businesses didn’t survive the pandemic. Less lively overall. More violent incidents. I feel less comfortable going downtown to Minneapolis at night to a concert, for example. Public school kids got the shaft during the pandemic. (My kid was in private school.) It’s not terrible but I’d be content to move on. It’s hard to find racially integrated neighborhoods because of all the historical racial covenants and redlining. There are a few things to love though. The MN orchestra is great. Very lively arts culture overall. And amazing food. Pretty chill pace of life. And yes, very affordable! I guess I’d move to be closer to family. Just wouldn’t move here otherwise at this point.
Cb says
What comes after Elephant and Piggie reading level wise? Is there a series I could order from the library and call it a day?
My son is reading E&P pretty confidently but is coming home with very simple early readers, so we’re working to supplement whatever is happening in the classroom.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Magic Treehouse series?
Anonymous says
That’s a huge jump from E&P for independent reading.
Maybe Mercy Watson, or (ugh) Fly Guy?
Anon2 says
Henry and Mudge
anonM says
+1!
AwayEmily says
hmmm…I feel like elephant and piggie is actually much easier than many of the “early readers” because it is repetitive/predictable/conversational (which is great!). So you may just want to stick with the early readers, and go up by level as he gets more comfortable.
Anon says
Not disagreeing about E&P but aren’t early readers really repetitive and predictable also?
Cb says
Ah, his school books are like “the cat is on the rug… the dog is on the rug” and only 3-4 pages? So I think it’s partially building up his stamina.
His teacher said he’s ready to jump up to the next colour but his group isn’t, so he’s a bit bored.
AwayEmily says
Oh I see, so his school readers are like Bob books. I think of “Early Readers” as the “Level 1” books. In that case I would look for those. Google for Level 1 Reader and you’ll find lots of different ones, including ones with popular characters (Frozen, Paddington, Pete the Cat, etc).
Mary Moo Cow says
Following! We’ve been there with the oldest and will be there soon with the youngest, and I can’t remember what we did for the oldest. I do remember our librarian recommending Bob Shea books, one about a dancing cat and one about a unicorn (maybe?) Narwhal and Jelly perhaps? Oh, Unicorn and Yeti were good! (I’m remembering more as I’m typing.) I love the Henry and Mudge series (and there are tons of them) but you might be doing a bit of reading aloud. I’m not familiar with the Poppleton series beyond the name, but I’m curious if anyone else knows them.
Cb says
Ah, Unicorn and Yeti sounds fun! I’ll add them to my mom’s list as the library doesn’t have them (mom has a World of Books habit…), and we love Narwhal and Jelly for read alouds but I think you’re right they’d be good for reading practice.
We’ve been reading Little Bear stories which I LOVE but I think he has them memorised as they have definitely been our comfort read.
Molly says
The Scholastic Acorn books include Unicorn and Yeti as well as a number of other series. I think they would be great for what you are looking for (my daughter is devouring them currently).
GCA says
Princess in Black, Ivy & Bean, Zoey & Sassafras, Frog & Toad?
octagon says
The Jon Klassen books, while not a series, are perfect for this age – Triangle, Square, We Found a Hat, I Want My Hat Back – really all of them are delightful.
The Llama Llama books might work too.
Mo Willems has some other books that are pretty close to E&P too.
Cb says
“Have you seen my hat?” “Why are you asking me? I haven’t seen any hat!” Definitely a favourite in our hosue. We brought it to lunch with a friend and his toddler and it never came home, because she also loved it.
Anonymous says
I would vote for Fly Guy and maybe Dog Man. Fly Guy’s big book of why is a little harder but vaguely educational.
Anonymous says
Oh and if your child likes non-fiction, the national geographic easy readers series is good.
Anon318 says
Dog man took my reluctant emerging reader son and transformed him into a voracious reader (of graphic novels and topics he’s interested in). Dog man is not my favorite, but I highly recommend for 5-7 year old boys. We read with him at first, having him pick out words he knew or could sound out, but he improved quickly! This story was the same for several friends and neighborhood boys.
Esquinkle says
Absolutely same here. Neither I nor his school taught my son to read – it was all dog man (sigh).
Anon says
I’m assuming you’ve done all the other Mo Willems? i’d say Bob Shea and Mac Barnett both have a lot of good books. And honestly then there’s a pretty quick jump they make and they can suddenly read a lot. So my K son is into dragonmasters, magic treehouse, the thirteen story treehouse… Love narwal and jelly but he actually doesn’t go for graphic novels as much for reading alone. Oh another early chapter book series I like is Kingdom of Wrenly.
Anon says
Scholastic Acorn books are the next step. Lots of color pictures and minimal words on a page. Hello Hedgehog, Hog on a Log, and Fox Tails are probably the first series to start with, then you can expand into Mobi Shinobi and Crabby Books and Dragon and keep going from there.
Anon says
My 5 year old is getting in trouble at pre-K for saying “oh my god” and “oh god.” Apparently I say this a lot and need to figure out how to stop! I did pretty well with stopping swearing when she was born but am finding it much harder to stop this. They don’t even want her saying “oh gosh” which seems pretty benign to me, so anything I substitute has to be more creative than that.
Cb says
Oh no! Is oh my goodness ok? Something over the top silly “Oh pickles!” “Oh pamplemouse”
Also, tell your kid you’ll give them a quarter whenever they catch you.
anonM says
+1. My kids repeated “holy sh*t” and somehow we got them to switch to “holy biscuits and gravy” and they think it’s hilarious.
Anon says
haha I like pamplemouse! My husband said we should say “mon dieu”
Vicky Austin says
I bet silly is the key to getting something else to stick! What about a food your kid hates? “Oh, celery!”
(I don’t know when I started saying this, but I like “Oh, foot!” as well.)
Cb says
A cousin says “you tomato” as an insult b/c a tomato is the worst thing in the world.
GCA says
Silly is definitely the way to go here (see if you can make the teachers laugh, too). ‘Oh, zebras!’ ‘Oh fudgepops!’
Also, secular private pre-K can attempt to police this stuff, but once kids get to a larger public elementary school all bets are off. Plus, kids pick stuff up from older siblings all the time (as well as from whatever YouTubers and Twitch streamers they or their older siblings are watching that week).
Kid 2 has inexplicably picked up ‘Oh, myyyy’ in a Southern accent from daycare, or TV, or TV via daycare friends, I have no clue.
Anonymous says
Gross tell them to shove it? What kind of nonsense a$$ school is this
Anonymous says
Clearly I am from NJ but as long as my kids aren’t saying F-this in elementary school my work is done.
Anonymous says
And my 4 year old used that word this morning! Fun times. My other child learned that word at pre-K!!
Anon says
Haha I’m not from NJ but yeah… I swear like a sailor, or did pre-kid and I consider it a victory that my kid made it to 5 without learning the f word.
anon says
I can see it being disrespectful. Also it’s kind of got that Valley Girl thing which I don’t love. I personally wouldn’t want my kid picking up the phrase from another kid at daycare.
I think it’s telling that the commenter who thinks there’s nothing wrong with it is also the one using words that have to be edited out…
Anonymous says
Oh gosh? You’d be mad at your kid picking that up? Ok princess.
Anon says
Who is it disrespecting? I genuinely don’t get it.
Anon says
It’s disrespecting God (as an answer to your question – not that I think children are intending this). It’s using “my God” in a similar way that you’d use s* or f*. I know there is nuance and sometimes it can be a positive exclamation, but that’s hard to impress upon a child so probably the reason for the blanket rule.
I agree this is odd for a secular school and “oh my gosh” seems totally benign…but if it’s private and you’re choosing to attend, I guess you have to follow their rules? One of the teachers might be really sensitive to this (I admit it also makes me prickly, though I don’t like hearing swearing of any degree except in extreme cases. But to each their own.)
anonM says
Yeah, I have in laws that will say all kinds of things I find wildly offensive about…everything…. but “taking the lord’s name in vain” is a big offense. I’d never heard that before meeting them, but they take it very seriously.
Anonymous says
Yeah, the lords name in vain thing is very much A Thing in many more religious and/or more conservative areas, especially older generations. I’ve outgrown it bothering me too much but G-d still makes me cringe in a way that other cursing does not.
My grandparents always used to say “good gracious me!” or “goodness gracious!” which are my favorites. They don’t roll off my tongue, but I do like to employ them for effect when I have my wits about me. I don’t let my kids say “oh my god,” but “oh my gosh” or “oh my goodness” are fine.
Anonymous says
Lol my kid was in Catholic school for two years because of public school closures and picked up saying “Oh My Gosh!!!” from her first grade teacher, who was 23 and super Catholic.
Anon says
I agree that “oh gosh” seems benign. My daughter has started saying “Oh biscuits!” which she picked up from Bluey. So maybe lots of Bluey will help?
anon says
MINE TOO! She said it with great emotion while in line on the jetway to board a plane. The guy in front of us whipped around and was like “say what!”. It was hysterical and I kind of love it. Also, “cheese and crackers!”.
Anonymous says
Is this a religious school? Seems a little over the top. But my suggestion if you have to comply is to show her enough Bluey that she starts saying “oh, biscuits.”
Anon says
Nope, secular school. She likes Bluey and does say oh biscuits sometimes. It’s just hard for me to switch to something that doesn’t start with the same sound. I successfully switched to “fudge” and “shoot” when she was born, but I think it’s because I had the first syllable to catch myself :)
Anon says
We aren’t religious but my 5 year old goes to a catholic preschool. A few months ago, when I said OMG about something, he calmly told me that God doesn’t like to hear me say his name like that. Apparently, this is what they told them in class and used it as a lesson in respecting personal boundaries? Something like that. Anyway, I asked him if it would bother him if I said “Oh my [his name]” instead. He said no, so now I always say it that way, and he says “Oh my [my first name],” sometimes substituting my husband’s name or his brothers’. The kids think it’s hilarious and it’s a fun inside family joke.
FVNC says
I agree with the others that, one – this is over the top feedback from your school, and two – yes, start training your family to say something else (I like the “biscuits and gravy”!).
We had the oppos i t e situation when our oldest was learning to talk in her southern daycare. She’d come home saying “Aw laaaawwwdy” in a deep, deep southern accent. Gosh, I miss that!
Anon says
Hahaha I love the aw laaaawwwdy
Cb says
My son comes home more Scottish by the day… “When we get in the hoos, can I have a snack?” “I dinnae..”
Anonymous says
My kid caught herself once and said, “Oh, . . . . Charlotte.” So there’s that.
Anonymous says
Is this a school-wide policy, or just the teacher being the language police?
My response would be to ask what the teacher’s actual concern with daughter is, because I’d think they would have bigger concerns than a word that doesn’t put anyone’s health or safety at risk.
Anon says
I think just a very religious teacher.
Anonymous says
Then it’s up to the teacher to kindly provide an acceptable phrase in the moment. “Oops, Name, please remember to say ” as they move on to other things.
Anonny says
We’re mildly religious and the kids go to a religious school, but I think this is OTT by the teacher. We’re pretty big on appropriate language/kids not cursing in our family, and we allow oh my god and its variants.
Would you be able to frame it that we can say this phrase at home but not at school? Teacher doesn’t like the phrase so out of respect to her, we don’t say it around her?
It’s a victory that I don’t drop F bombs around my kids (most of the time, that is), but I really don’t think I could cut out oh my god.
Isabella says
One of my coworkers is bitter about being childless and doesn’t want to hear about kids. We’re a pretty chatty cube farm: medical and legal issues are fair game for example. But anything more than a quick comment about kids gets rudely shut down, or this coworker storms off.
I skipped any kind of office baby shower and don’t show pictures. But how much should I censor my conversation?
Anonymous says
You shouldn’t. This is a her problem, not a you problem.
anon says
+1. I’m sorry she’s going through that but her reaction is OTT.
Anon says
+1. People are responsible for their own emotions and behavior, even when it’s really hard.
busybee says
Please keep in mind that your coworker is grieving. Put yourself in her shoes: she desperately wants a child and would do anything to have one. For whatever reason, it’s simply not possible for her and she is trying to come to terms with living a life very different than she had imagined. She is surrounded by people who can, in many cases without any effort whatsoever, have the very thing she wants most of all. She can never escape reminders of what she can’t have. Maybe she “rudely” shuts it down or “storms off” because she’d rather show anger than sadness at work.
I don’t think you should have to fully censor your conversation, but keep her pain in mind whenever you bring up your child(ren). Glib comments like “it’s a her problem” by the commenter at 10:13 illustrate how the vast majority of people will never come close to understanding the particular pain of infertility. Perhaps a kind, private conversation with her could go a long way.
Anonymous says
Yea this. Also you’re at work? Consider working more and gabbing less.
anon says
Wow nice. Some kinds of work allow simultaneous working and “gabbing”.
Anon says
I agree with this. It’s not reasonable to expect you to never mention your child at work, but the comment at 10:12 struck me as very cold-hearted.
Anon says
+3. As someone who had children late in life (and was terrified that I might have missed the boat), I understand her pain on some level. I didn’t react like her, but those conversations really gnawed at me. I actually am very careful about how much I reference my children now, as a result.
anon says
IDK, I’m in the throes of infertility so I understand how hard this can be. I had to grin through my worst employee’s pregnancy announcement the day before my D&C for a 9-week miscarriage. But at the same time, children are a part of life for most people and I don’t think these topics should be off-limits. While I’d encourage OP to approach this from a mindset of kindness, and maybe invite a conversation with her co-worker about her feelings, I don’t think she needs to or should avoid the topic of kids. Like her co-worker, I’ve had to learn to live with my grief in a world that is full something I can’t have, but learning to live with it in a functional way is something I must do if I want to have a happy life.
GCA says
I’m sorry you are going through this, and thank you for your gracious comments here. It does sound like OP wants to be conscious of her co-worker’s grief – skipping the office baby shower and not showing pictures. I imagine that in conversations she, and others around this co-worker, are already coming at it from a place of kindness.
OP — rather than censor, I would make every effort to divert conversations and take the topic elsewhere (what great books are you reading right now? have you been to the new Hokusai exhibit at the art museum? I just got an air fryer, what delicious things have you made?) but there is no way to control your colleague’s reaction, and that is up to her.
Anonymous says
Agree. I would try to think about how your kids are coming up in these conversations. When you’re grieving the fact that you are not going to have children (or may not, if still on a fertility journey), it really sucks to be having a conversation unrelated to kids and then have someone make it about their kids. For example, childless coworker mentions a new recipe she made. Do you respond with a comment about how your kids would never like that, they are so picky, or talk about something you made for your kids? Because that can be really hard. And it can come up in all sorts of scenarios — pets, movies, etc. I’m not saying you can never talk about your kids at work, but maybe just try to be conscientious about how many times you bring up your kids in conversation.
Anonymous says
Even if this co-worker is grieving, and we have no idea whether she is or not, it doesn’t give her the right to rudely shut down conversations and storm off. That’s childish and manipulative behavior that deserves no quarter, and it makes it squarely a her problem.
Anon says
+1.
Anonymous says
Is she bitter or is she sad?
Anonymous says
Could you not say the same things about single people who wish to be in a relationship and everyone talks about what “we” did over the weekend, etc., etc. How politicians always talk about “families” as if solo people were not a priority? And widows / widowers / etc.? Many people are grieving many things. We can be kind, but this is a very unintentional foul (if it is even that).
NYCer says
Personally, I would try to keep kid talk to a minimum when she is around if you know that it is painful for her. My office is also quite chatty, but there are plenty of other things to talk about than my kids.
Anon says
Yeah, I’ve never struggled with infertility but I find it kind of off-putting how some moms (and it’s always moms, not dads) can’t talk about anything except their kids. I love my kids, just like I love my husband and my parents, but they’re my family members, not my whole life. I’m still my own person with my own interests and hobbies.
Anonymous says
I suspect it may be different for people with kids just born or <5? We don't have a lot of working women who are moms of kids who are old enough to read, but my guess is that for that crowd, they aren't part of this problem. The newest moms (or religous converts or diet adapters, etc.) are always the most vocal and possibly least aware (at least the noisiest ones).
Anonymous says
Ha, I’m sure you’re right on a population level but I happen to work with 2 dads of 3 kids each and they constantly CONSTANTLY talk about their kids. I have one too and I’m happy to engage but I hear them in the hall telling the 23 year old paralegal about the latest cute thing their kid did.
anonM says
Definitely avoid complaining about your kids to her/in this context. You can vent elsewhere.
anon says
Thanks for the feedback. Some of this is helpful, and I guess even the rude comments reveal the range of opinions on this issue. We all regularly redirect the conversation towards shared interests and more inclusive topics.
I’m also not surprised everyone assumed it was a woman with infertility issues–my coworker is actually an older man who is just verging towards being an incel. But I knew if I included that information in the original question I would only hear answers that confirmed my existing annoyance.
Anon says
I don’t think any of the comments were rude except maybe the one that said gab less. And this context matters, so I’m not sure why you omitted it.
Anonymous says
I actually wondered if this is the case since there was no gender mentioned.
I’m on team “it’s a them problem”, and would be regardless of gender or fertility status. Talk about your kids *more*, not less.
Anon says
Talk about your kids *more* to someone you know is struggling with fertility issues? I got pregnant easily twice and never had a miscarriage, but geez that is so unkind.
Anonymous says
And I struggled with fertility to the point of tears when someone announced a pregnancy. I meant what I said, someone being rude like this deserves to hear more talk of kids, not less.
Anonymous says
Omg you are so annoying. No one was rude to you. Don’t waste everyone’s time like this.
Isabella says
Omg you are defintely being rude. But my 11:59 comment was intended to reference “team not-a-me-problem” as impolite/inconsiderate, not implying that anyone had hurt my feelings.
GCA says
Hmm, it wouldn’t really change my answer or approach, actually. An older man could be grieving too, it still doesn’t give them the right to storm off, and i think redirecting is still the right thing to do. it doesn’t sound like you like this coworker anyway or think they are particularly personable, so…act professional, don’t engage.
busybee says
Same, GCA. I thought about it for a while and I agree my approach would be the same. I always try to keep in mind that we don’t know the reasons for things- maybe he had a stillborn child, or maybe he had a fiancée die. Or maybe none of those things and he’s a jerk! But I would still limit and steer the conversation to topics you know don’t upset anyone. Definitely do NOT talk about kids more just to be punish him for his perceived rudeness, as a PP suggested.
Vicky Austin says
+1 – well put. Yes, grieving infertility/the life you won’t have/ghost ships etc is really really hard; storming off in a cubicle farm when your coworkers are discussing their daily lives is…not the way.
anon says
“bitter”? Really? Is she childless by choice? Prob not. I’m not bitter I’m infertile. I’m very, very sad and grieving. Check yourself.
Anonymous says
But do you rudely shut shut down conversations and storm off when someone talks about their kids near you?
Elle says
This is just a rant, but I’m trying to conceive for the first time. I wish anyone would have warned me how emotional it would be! Both DH and I were surprise babies and it feels like everyone I know got pregnant in the first month or two. I rationally know that there are people who have it way worse than I do, but I wish I could stop getting my hopes up each month.
Cb says
Oof, it is hard… I assumed I’d get pregnant right away, and one month, my husband opened the door to find me with my hands full of litter I’d collected on the walk from the bus. My period had started and I was so sad, and frankly a little unhinged, crying about litter.
Anon says
I’m sorry. Can you plan something to look forward to each month when you get your period?
Anonymous says
So hard. We started trying back when I was 28 and I thought I’d get pregnant immediately. Nope, took 9 months. Took 8 with my second.
For our 3rd we knew how long it could take so started on the early side. Annnnd pregnant on the first try ;). That baby was also the only one of my kids to be born early, so full of surprises!
Anon says
Ugh, the wait is the worst. I can’t believe you make such a huge life decision and then you just… wait. For months. Never knowing if it’s going to happen.
Anon says
+1 And then “if” you get pregnant, wait for weeks and weeks hoping baby sticks around and everything is healthy. Commiseration OP
GCA says
Hang in there, it is really hard! One piece of advice you’ll hear is not to put your life on hold while TTC. Book the summer trip, throw your hat in for the promotion, or sign up for the marathon – and then adapt later.
Anon says
It took me 9 months or more the first time around. Using the cheap ovulation test strips from Amazon was a game changer, if you haven’t tried them yet, not to give unwanted advice. The second time only took a couple months. Just because it takes a while doesn’t automatically mean anything is wrong.
Anonymous says
Has anyone ever quit a Brownie / GS troop b/c of too much toxic mom drama? One mom really wants her 6th grader to get her Gold Award and cheats at everything even when another adult challenged her on things. She has also yelled at me for not playing along. I think the mom is more into it than her kid (who seems pleasant but now I don’t care to get to know better). I have been helping out so we could have some camping trips (atypical for GS, I think, but my son does Boy Scouts and we have a lot of gear that I know how to use). But I am sort of done. My kid may want to continue but (and I hate that I am saying this), I think that that mom may take it out on my kid if she stays in and I step back. Is this crazy? A LifeTime movie (definitely NOT Hallmark!) yet to be made (so this is maybe Tracy Flick all grown up?). Maybe we find another troop (but my understanding is that if you have a 6th grader, say, not all troops are open to all girls — you must be their desired age and they must be open to accepting someone, you can’t just show up).
Anon says
I’m having a hard time understanding this post, but I would step back from the troop yourself, let your kid continue and cross the bridge of the other mom retaliating against your kid if/when you come to it.
Anon says
Yeah, I’d encourage you to check with your daughter and make sure she wants to continue if you step back and then just step back and see what happens. I personally would have no issue lying about an excuse and being super apologetic to Drama Mama to try and prevent blowback. Maybe a huge multi-year project just came up at work and you need to have meetings exactly when Girl Scouts are?
EP-er says
I think that the troops have different personalities & focuses, and it is worth it to “interview” some other choices. I would try to find another troop that meshes with what your daughter is looking for. Once you get into C/S/A around here, there are fewer troops. Some focus on travel, or crafts, or outdoor adventures. My daughter’s troop is dissolving at the end of the year, due to lack of time/interest from the other girls, so we are starting this process to find the good fit.
Also, in our council at least, only the Bronze (Junior High Award) can be approved by troop leaders. The council is much more involved in the applications & approvals for Silver/Gold. If I was yelled at for not going along with cheating on the Silver award, I would absolutely tell her that none of her behavior is in line with the GS law. And then I would email council with what is going on. I’m a big believer in scouts to learn the integrity & leadership side of things — not to get a check mark on your college applications or doing it because your mom said you had to!
Anonymous says
Can she switch to Boy Scouts? There is a huge and very active all girls Boy Scout troop in my area and it is for kids 6th and older
Birthday dilemma says
What would you do here? Older kid’s 6th birthday party is tomorrow, first time we’ve done more than 1 friend to celebrate since before covid. We’re planning a relatively chill at home party (cake, crafts, games). But younger kiddo has been coughing all week. Multiple negative covid tests, and not sick enough to miss school until yesterday afternoon when she was lethargic and had a mild fever. We’re keeping her home today to rest, and so far she’s had normal energy, no fever, but still coughing. Do we still go forward with the party? It seems so unfair to big kid to postpone because little kid is sick. And also unfair to ban little kid from the party (we invited siblings because we know all the families pretty well). I was thinking we tell little kid she has to wear a mask during the party or stay in another part of the house (with a parent following her to enforce). I wish we could get her out of the house entirely but it’s going to be pretty cold, and I can’t think of anywhere I could take a germy kid! We would then explain the situation to all the invited families so people can decide what works for them. Or should we just postpone?
anonM says
I’d text the families something like “Friend, so looking forward to tomorrow! FYI – little sibling is getting over a cold (negative for covid, worst of it was yesterday). Unless she wakes up tomorrow feeling worse instead of better, as I expect, our plan is to have her mask and make sure she washes her hands frequently. If you want to discuss or if this changes your RSVP, just let me know.” That way, if one of the families has some unknown health concern that can opt out easily, but I’d be comfortable if you have her mask in that situation (and no fever today/tomorrow am).
Anon says
Agree with this.
anon says
This sounds perfect! I’d really appreciate the heads up so I can make my own risk assessment.
If you have a ventilation plan you can share, that’d also be helpful (I’d be more likely to feel comfortable with windows cracked and air purifiers bumped up a bit).
OP says
Excellent point – we are planning to run an air purifier in the party space, so I’ll include that in the text.
Anonymous says
I would do this if it were not that the sibling is getting sicker – it’s odd to spike a fever on day 4 of a cold, no? So that makes me think something else is going on or the cold is morphing into something more serious.
Anon says
Most likely a secondary bacterial infection like an ear infection or bronchitis and that’s not contagious.
OP says
Doc saw signs of an ear infection when we were there about 10 days ago, so this would track.
Anonymous says
+1, with that info, this sounds like sinus/ear infection with postnasal drip causing the coughing.
Anonymous says
For those of you with young kids and local grandparents that are healthy, able and willing to help with childcare, how often a month do they help out with childcare? We have one 3 year old who is a very chill child and pretty easy to babysit for (never fights going to bed and is not a picky eater). Two sets of grandparents within 30 minutes. If grandparents watch him, we always provide dinner for everyone. I just feel incredibly guilty asking them, and not know how to shake this feeling if we do more than one 2-3 hour date night a month.
Anon says
Sunday after family brunch for 3 hours (weekly)
pick up from daycare or aftercare (1x / mo, on average)
non-school days: 4-5 times a year
date night: what’s that? kidding, maybe 2 times a year?
They want to do more, but I’ve resisted because I want them to stay the ‘fun’ grandparents … if it was more routine, I’d need to set limits on treats, screen time etc. but now the visits are infrequent enough that it’s just a fun treat. Plus I don’t want to build up a system of relying on them for when one (inevitably) gets to a stage where they can’t safely do it any more.
AwayEmily says
Ours is basically the exact same (only one grandparent, my mom, and she lives about 30 minutes away). I also try to make it as easy as possible for her (e.g. if we go out to dinner then I put the baby to bed before we leave, or if she’s watching both big kids at once during the day I’ll make sure to have lunch all prepared so she doesn’t have to do that as well). We have never had her watch all 3 kids (1, 5, 7) on her own. It would be too much.
Anon says
Just as anecdata the other way, even regular childcare doesn’t necessarily have to kill the “fun grandparent” vibe. My parents provide near-daily childcare for us (school aftercare + most weekends) and beyond safety issues, we have no rules for them. They are more concerned about screens than we are, so that’s a non-issue, and while they’re probably more permissive with sweets than we are, it’s not the hill we want to die on. I realize it depends on the personalities of all the people involved, but it’s ok to let grandparents make the rules for their own house, even if they’re regular caregivers.
Anon says
My situation is sort of unusual. My parents have their own place a mile away but we kind of think of ourselves as one household. We eat dinner together most nights we’re all in town and our preschooler sleeps at their place 1-2 nights per week. But it doesn’t feel like we’re asking them a favor. If grandparents aren’t offering, then I would say once or twice a month sounds about right.
Anonymous says
My in laws live far away and tbh we don’t have a great relationship so they never keep my kids. My mom is local but works full time and takes care of my dad, who is disabled. When my first kid was born she really never kept him or helped til after he turned two. Maybe once a quarter she would keep him at her house overnight. With my second and third (twins) she comes over twice a week after work to watch them so I can take the oldest to a sports practice. It’s honestly a bit of a sacrifice for my mom and I’m trying to find a way to show her I appreciate it. She mostly does it as a favor to me since DH works late often and I’ve had no success finding a nanny or babysitter. It really depends on your relationship but I think asking each set to do a weekend night once a month is not overstepping.
Anonymous says
my parents are local and have never hosted a kid overnight! just flagging that once a quarter was pretty awesome too i’d think! i bet they loved it of course.
Anon says
If I was in your boat, I feel like a single 2-3 hour span once a month, per set of grandparents is not excessive at all. My 3 year old craves alone time with her favorite people. She gets to have more fun 1-on-1 with them. And grandparents walk away with funny stories. But obviously reading the room is important if they are signally it’s too much. That’s a factor.
Anonymous says
One set of local grandparents, both retired and currently in good health. Probably once or twice a month. Kids are 4 and 8. They are our primary backup care for school closure days like teacher planning days, and then will often handle a random school pickup (picking up 8 year old today so my spouse who usually handles afternoons can do something , since I have a big meeting), or a few hours in a weekend day or occasionally date night. One of my parents had a multi month major health issue last year- before that, they did overnights a few times a year, but haven’t since. They also handled 3/5 of zoom school days for the now-8 year old in 2020-2021.
Boston Legal Eagle says
My parents are local (within 30 minutes) and they usually come over every Sunday morning to watch both kids for a few hours. Sometimes we switch it up to Saturday nights and we go out. My dad watches the older one after school 2x week and also helps out with sick days or random days off. It’s not a burden for them for now and they enjoy the relationships so we take advantage.
I think with one kid or older kids, I wouldn’t feel like I need a break as often as I do/did with very little kids. Even now, our weekends are more fun outings v. wrangling small children, but it’s still nice for their relationship.
Anon says
My in-laws are localish (about an hour away) and my parents are across the country. My parents have openly expressed over and over again how they want to babysit and us to go on dates while they’re in town so I have zero guilt about taking them up on that (we see them every 2-3 months with both groups traveling). My in laws have always said yes whenever we asked but never volunteer (they also have 8 grandkids so do a lot of babysitting!) so we usually only ask for emergencies or big deals.