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WWYD - college in Europe says
WWYD – I am American, my spouse is German. We have two kids (4 and three months old). We currently live in the US but long term we want to settle down in Europe (within the next 2-3 years). Four year old is fluent in both languages, both have both citizenships.
Now the question: Germany has free university education. Should we still save for a US college tuition or basically expect/require our kids to go the „German route“?
Anon says
Until you’re actually living in Germany I would probably continue to save, but do so in an account that can easily be repurposed for non-educational expenses, i.e., not a 529. You may want lawyer or financial advisor advice on what types of accounts would be good considering you expect to move to Germany soon. I’m a big fan of I-bonds if you qualify for the tax breaks based on income, but I don’t know how accessible or advantageous that would be to someone not in the US.
I also think it would be a reasonable decision to not save at all, I’m just pretty cautious about this stuff, and there’s an advantage to saving a lot early and letting compound interest do its thing.
Anonymous says
We have a very similar situation except not planning to move back to Europe. In Austria, there are requirements for parental contributions so although we wouldn’t have tuition costs, we would have to still cover living expenses for some years which can be quite pricey depending on the city. Basically our goal is to save enough that we can pay their living expenses if they go to university in the EU which is about the same as living at home here and getting tuition covered.
Our kids will be educated here so I don’t expect that they will necessarily be bilingual to the extent that they will be able to attend university in Germany without language upgrading but they may want to go to France which has a similar set up. Already at upper elementary school ages, we see a difference between their ability to chatter away to their cousins in German vs write letters/emails or other more formal writing in German.
So, if you actually make the move, then I would probably stop saving, or at least cut back on saving when you move. With current interest rates, sock away what you can, while you can and dial back saving later once you have nest egg and have benefitted from compound interest.
Bette says
I’d save but in an UTMA rigt now.
I’m from a similar family and i’d caution that this works only for specific types of kids. If you don’t end up staying in germany, this is difficult to manage if your child needs more learning or emotional supports. You’d want them to be close to you so you can help them launch and you might not have the cash available to help pay for college.
Also, if your child wants to study law or medicine those are not very portable professions between those two countries.
In my family’s case, the kids have ended up spread over europe and the US. I don’t think my parents really thought about what it would be life to have us all so far flung. It was really hard for them during the pandemic and going years without seeing the majority of their grandkids.
Anonymous says
Why save in a UTMA account? The FAFSA and CSS formulas take a much larger percentage of the child’s assets than of the parents’. This is why all of our designated college savings are under our own names, not our child’s.
Bette says
UTMA is taxed at the child’s rate, not the parent’s so the right answer for this likely depends on the parent’s tax bracket.
But agreed, a dedicated taxable account would serve the same purpose.
Anonymous says
Our kids are all adopted out of the foster care system, so as of this post, they can attend college for free at any state institution. We still save about $400 per month per kid. It’s in money market accounts that are in my husband’s name. We figure if they don’t go to college they can use it toward a down payment on a house or something. I’m also not counting on 1) all my kids attending college and 2) this perk still being in effect 16 years from now.
Anon says
That’s an awesome perk!
Anon says
Looks like DS2 has a dairy allergy and possible wheat allergy. My oldest had an egg allergy he grew out of but dairy seems a bit more challenging for us to avoid (we are big Greek yogurt eaters in this house and put it in everything!). Any tips on navigating dairy allergies? Any websites or social media accounts for parents? We are seeing an allergist soon.
Anonymous says
Dairy is tough but there are a lot of good substitutes out there now. I like coconut based products for yoghurts, becel vegan for baking, and vanilla oat milk for drinking. Go Dairy Free website has lots of info. If you are reintroducing dairy down the road, I like the UK dairy ladder – I prefer the 12 step over the 6 step.
Jdmd says
I have a dairy allergy. It’s surprisingly doable these days. I strongly recommend Ripple milk, which is made from pea protein. It has a mouth-feel similar to cow’s milk, is high in protein, no sugars added, none of the thickeners that other plant milks use. I like coconut yogurt, but for a kid try cashew yogurt, which has a milder flavor. The Miyako’s brand has delicious vegan butter, cream cheese, and other soft cheeses.
Struggling says
My husband planned a short trip to visit the in-laws a few states away. I feel so drained from other travel and stress at work that I’m very tempted to just stay home and let him take our young kids without me. I would worry about the kids, and would miss them, but once he’s through the airport hassles, he would have his parent’s help watching them, and it wouldn’t be for many days. I’m sure my in-laws and kids would be disappointed in my absence, so that’s a factor. But I already see my in-laws five times a year. I feel like these vacations are really for everyone else’s benefit, and I find little enjoyment, and mostly a sense of duty and exhaustion. (My in-laws are nice people, I’m just more of an introvert and stressed by life in general and need a break.) Before our last trip, I told my husband I was feeling overwhelmed and wasn’t sure I could handle it well, and he was sympathetic, but once we were on our vacation, I felt little support from him and felt he was just barking orders at me during moments of stress with the kids. To be honest, our marriage is not great, so it’s really hard to stay positive or ask for help from him when I’m struggling (we’ve tried counseling in the past, and it was a disappointment). Staying home sounds like a dream (apart from missing my kids) but I know I would feel guilty and send a message to my in-laws that something’s off. Any advice on whether I should back out? It’s likely I will go on the vacation, and so how can I muster up some resilience? I always begin with good intentions, and then things unravel. My fear is that I would snap at my husband or yell at the kids or behave in a way I regret.
Anne-on says
I would 100% send him with the kids. Let your inlaws know that you’re having a tough time at work and are using this time to get caught up (this can totally be a white lie btw).
Unsolicited book rec – ‘Real Self Care’ is a wonderful book that dives deeply into how to truly practice self care without the ‘woo’ and sounds like it might resonate with you. If you have extra bonus time maybe pick up Fair Play from the library and think about if re-allocating some of the cards would be helpful for you?
Anon says
Let him go without you! He’s a grown man, he will figure it out.
Anonymous says
This internet stranger gives you permission to skip the visit, or go along and go to bed early. When visiting the in laws I often go up to bed before DH and listen to an audio book for a half hour or hour while he chats with his parents. Being worn out from young children and work is always a good excuse.
Also, visiting your in laws is not a vacation. Vacations are restful. This is a visit. If you do go, maybe take a night at a hotel when you get back so you can recover? I always book a half day off and a post in law visit recovery facial at the same time as I book our plane tickets. We see them twice a year but for 1-2 weeks at a time. During which my MIL will lament daily that we are ‘only’ there for 2 weeks.
‘
Anonymous says
I mean, clearly the best way to enjoy time together AND make sure people want to visit you again is to complain about how short the visit is.
OOO says
I agree with Anne-on – you should stay home if at all possible and make up an excuse that you have to get caught up at work. My IL’s always seem to be glad when they get uninterrupted time with their grandkids without their pesky DIL getting in the way, so when we visit them I try to take advantage of the free childcare as much as possible by hiding in the bedroom or sitting on the porch and reading a book, or going shopping, get a massage, grab coffee with a friend in the area, etc.
Anonymous says
Don’t go. I did this in January: had a mental break down right before we were supposed to go to the in laws for new years. DH took the kids without me and it’s one of the best 4 day vacations I’ve ever had. I ate cheezits for dinner, watched movies, didn’t get out of my pjs. One day my mom and I went shopping then for drinks at Chilis. Tell your husband you’re not going; he’s taking the kids without you. He will figure it out.
Anon says
Why are you worried about the kids? That seems like kind of a strange reaction to me. I miss my kids when they’re alone with DH but I never worry about them.
anon says
This jumped out at me too. And seems particularly notable since op is asking a question about a vacation while sublimating the real question — the marriage — pretty hard.
I would stay home. And use the time and rest to do some thinking about the deeper questions here.
Anonymous says
My guess was that OP’s husband probably lets his mom watch the kids and her safety standards do not align with OP’s.
Anon says
Then that’s a conversation that needs to happen with DH. My in-laws don’t watch our kids unsupervised, but DH still takes the kids there without me. I trust him even if I don’t trust them.
Vicky Austin says
I didn’t read this as concerning – it sounds like this OP is just more anxious generally and the worry would be a natural part of the missing. I and my Zoloft prescription sympathize.
Vicky Austin says
Oh – but I echo the consensus here! Take the time! Even if you have to tell DH the white lie of needing to get caught up at work. Get yourself the time. Worry about working on your marriage after you’ve done this for yourself.
Anonymous says
Agreed. I feel this way too sometimes but it’s definitely my anxiety vs any real concern about my husband or MIL’s ability to watch my kids.
Anonymous says
Skip the visit! You clearly need this time. This is your chance to take it. Do it!
Anonymous says
Absolutely skip it. Grandparents really just want to see the grandkids. As long as the kids go they will be happy.
My husband used to visit his very difficult mother alone, without me or the kids. It was less stressful for both of us that way.
Spirograph says
+1 My in-laws are perfectly nice and we get along well, but I’m not going to delude myself that they want to see me, specifically. They want to see their son and their grandkids (in that order), and if I’m part of that package deal that’s fine.
You have a perfect opportunity and excuse to stay home. Blame work, send DH without you, decompress and see if any of this looks better after a few days of R&R. If nothing else, it will put you in a better head space to confront what sounds like the real problem here, which is feeling like there’s a lack of support from your husband.
Anon says
Agreed. grandparents care about (in order):
-grandkids
-their own son or daughter
.
.
.
.
-their son-in-law or daughter-in-law
They really want to see the kids and to a lesser degree your husband. It’s fine to stay home!
DLC says
Another person here that says don’t go! Your in law’s opinions do not get to be more important than your own mental health.
I cannot see any reason that you have to go on this trip.
momofthree says
The only question I’d have is the age of your children. If they were infants/ dependent on you for milk, it might be a different answer on whether you go. It seems though from the rest of the post that they are older, so your husband should be fine taking them through the airport & as you mention, he’ll have his parents.
It’s ok for your kids to miss you & for you to miss your kids. I took a trip recently with only a subset of my kids, who then went on a trip with my parent. I missed them, but I also liked having the time to myself. My husband kept bringing up how the kid who was left at home with him missed me, and I felt a little guilty, but also 1) knew there was no way I could take the third kid and 2) my husband can take care of the kid and we still had daytime care.
Your husband is a parent too. He may not parent the same way you do, but he’ll do fine.
HSAL says
I asked my pediatrician when my oldest was 2 1/2 and my twins were due in three months and she told me to wait, because the likelihood of regression after they were born was so high. And she was almost ready at that point – she was #2-trained and night-trained, so day training took about a day right before she turned 3.
Anon says
I agree with everyone else. Absolutely don’t go. Blame work. Enjoy some time off.
My husband has less vacation time than I do so I routinely fly to visit my parents with the kids without him. The airport/airplane is the worst part but absolutely do-able and after that you’re right about having the extra adult help. We all miss him and he misses us but honestly probably less than you’re anticipating. My parents would be thrilled if he came, but are very understanding that he can’t come and mainly want to see me and the grandkids anyway.
TheElms says
This is hard. Is there a weekend before or after that you can use to spend in a hotel in your city? If not a weekend could you just do 3/4 of the day without husband and the kids? I’m thinking get up, have breakfast with the kids and then go go get a mani/pedi (or whatever you would enjoy) and then take yourself out to lunch and do an afternoon activity like the pool or wandering around a museum you would like but your kids wouldn’t and then dinner out with a good friend. Come home after the kids are asleep. It won’t fix the whole problem but maybe a little pick you up to make it through the vacation?
busybee says
Would you work on potty training an almost- two year old (22 months) to avoid having 3 kids in diapers? Or are the early months of potty training hit or miss and it’s probably easier to have 3 in diapers? We are trying to decide if we should try to potty train our daughter before the twins arrive or just wait till a few months after. I know regression after the twins are born is possible as well. On one hand, 3 kids in diapers is a lot of diapers! But on the other hand we know what we are doing on that front, whereas potty training is uncharted territory. I wouldn’t say she’s showing readiness signs quite yet and we’d be starting in a month.
AwayEmily says
WAIT! Definitely, definitely wait.
NYCer says
+1. WAIT!
Anonymous says
Fellow twin mom here. +2 on wait. It’s ok if she’s 3 before she’s fully trained. Not strictly related but are you looking into a night nanny? That’s a lot of little people. Congrats on your teins!
Anon says
I only have one child but 22 months is sooo young. I’d wait.
Anonymous says
I would stick with diapers. Easier to have a kid wait a few minutes in a wet diaper while you settle the twins vs having her rush to the bathroom, not make it and have pee all over the carpet.
busybee says
Hah yes this is my fear exactly!
octagon says
Yes – I was excited for potty training but the first few months are really time-sensitive in that when a kid says they need to go, they need to go RIGHT THIS SECOND and can be very stressful. Give her the luxury of a few more months until you get used to having the twins, then work on it when everyone is in a better routine.
Anonymous says
Diapers are MUCH easier than a partially or poorly potty-trained child IMO, and under 2 is really young. Poo accidents are no joke.
HSAL says
Mis-post from above, sorry vacation poster.
I asked my pediatrician when my oldest was 2 1/2 and my twins were due in three months and she told me to wait, because the likelihood of regression after they were born was so high. And she was almost ready at that point – she was #2-trained and night-trained, so day training took about a day right before she turned 3.
Anonymous says
Wait! I am in the “wait until 3” camp and potty training (at least the pee) was a breeze for both kids.
try it says
I’ll be the disent and tell you maybe? order the Oh Crap Potty training book and there are some readiness indicators that were helpful for us ( does he sing his ABCs? etc.) we were in the wait until 3 camp and then read this book and did it easy-peasy at 25 months. her ideal range is 22-30 months. with 18 months being possible, but way too early for most.
Boston Legal Eagle says
We trained our first kid before kid 2 came along too, but he was closer to 2.5, which I think makes a difference. Sub 2, I’d just wait a few months – you will still be within that 22-30 month window (not that this is necessary, just what the book says) 6 months out and hopefully toddler will be in a better place transition wise.
Anon says
Definitely wait. My first was 22 months when my second was born. I waited until first was 30 months and I was sleeping and out of the newborn phase…
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
I potty trained DS #1 when he was 3 and 1/4th (ha). DS #2 was ~3 months old.
It wasn’t fun, or easy, because DS #1 never showed any “readiness” or “interest”, but I surmise it was probably better than trying before DS #2 arrived.
DS #2 is now 2.5 and is hit-or-miss telling me he did #2 soooo – I’ll wait again until the 3-3.5 age range or clear readiness, whatever comes first.
Anonymous says
Another looking ahead to fall clothes – Has anyone tried lands end legging for girls? My 6yo daughter is of medium build but TALL (99% percentile since birth) and even primary was too short last year. Cat&Jack just made it to the ankles, we may stick with those but exploring options FWIW, she goes to a crunchy outdoor school so we need something semi durable. Once it turns cold she’s in jeans or long Johns plus sweats, so length isn’t an issue there.
Cb says
I feel like I’m a secret shill for them but if they ship to the US, Lindex is fantastic for tall kids and really durable.
Anon says
I found Lands End leggings to be short and boxy, but durable. They also aren’t especially stretchy, so give a baggy look on my kids. They probably work better when used as pants, than with dresses or tunics.
Anonymous says
Thanks, I had a hunch they would be short and boxy.
Anon says
If you go to an outdoor school, you might get a discount at Polarn O Pyret. Very long and great quality.
anon says
You can also just size up. For leggings especially, I find that Cat&Jack just gets longer at larger sizes, not any wider.
Anon says
My daughter is only 90th percentile height but Old Navy leggings work well for her.
Feb anniversary trip says
Seeking any thoughts on a trip. Next February is our 15th anniversary. We will have 3.5 yo twins. Traveling from west coast but not a major airport. Looking for 10-14 days, easy. Coming from snow (so much snow). Will have a part time helper with us. Budget 12k all in. Where would you go?
Anon says
Hawaii is your answer.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Traveling from the West Coast – Hawaii. You can try a few of the islands in that timeframe. Or a cruise with childcare – would have to be somewhere south due to the timing.
Anon says
Rent an AirBnb in San Diego or Tucson? 5 plane tickets will eat up a lot of your budget and I’d want bedrooms and a kitchen with 3.5 yos.
Anon says
You can have a really nice trip to Hawaii on $12k, even for five people. I think that budget would be overkill in San Diego or Tucson, unless you want Four Seasons-type hotels and maybe even if then.
Anon says
Hawaii or western Mexico, like Cabo
Anon says
I think my comment got eaten but I’d definitely do Hawaii.
Anon says
I love Hawaii and have had great trips there with kids, but I think it depends on what you and your husband want. For milestone anniversary trips, DH and I like romantic and relaxing and Hawaii with twin 3 year olds is not going to be super relaxing. I would probably go to a really high-end all-inclusive with kids’ camps and some adults only restaurants to go to on date nights. I’d look at Grand Velas Cabos since you’re on the west coast.