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Rag & Bone’s ICONS Charles Leather Blazer is $995 at Nordstrom. It is available in beige and black, sizes 00–16 (most sizes only have a few available).
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Clementine says
Looking for enabling here.
I can totally pull off a square necked velvet bodysuit under jeans as a ‘casual holiday’ look? Going to get a dark green bodysuit and wear with higher waisted straight legged jeans.
Aunt Jamesina says
Absolutely! Sounds cute.
Anonymous says
Yes of course
Anon says
sounds like a cute outfit! would not work well on my body type, but i’d love it if I saw it on someone else’s
AwayEmily says
sounds amazing. I love a square neck.
A says
This sounds great! Do you have a link to the bodysuit? (…asking for a friend)
Clementine says
https://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=527260022&cid=72091&pcid=72091&vid=1&nav=meganav%3AWomen%3AShop+Women%27s+Categories%3ATops&cpos=105&cexp=2223&kcid=CategoryIDs%3D72091&ctype=Listing&cpid=res2211030745791638570740#pdp-page-content
Not dark green, but the Inspo.
Anonymous says
Absolutely! It would look especially great with dark-wash or black jeans.
anon says
Sounds very cute and fashion forward!
Spirograph says
Yes! Now I want a velvet bodysuit, that sounds like a great outfit, and dark green is my color.
Anonymous says
YES! what shoes??
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
YES YOU CAN. I may copy this with regular high-waisted jeans, so TIA. Realized thanks to the main board that because I’m short/thick waisted, anything above 9″ really brings out the “soccer ball with legs” vibe. As a shoe, I may go lug-sole loafers…
anon says
Not sure what I’m looking for here- advice? Commiseration? My dilemma is this: husband and I have a one year old. Money is tight at the moment and we have a small house. We are inundated with presents for her. She just turned one and Christmas is around the corner. My in laws also don’t have much money but they lavish her with gifts. We do not need or want them. What we need are things like diapers, gift cards, or 529 contributions. ILs refuse to buy those things because they’re not “fun” and baby “deserves to open presents.” ILs get very offended if their toys aren’t played with regularly. They will 100% notice and be upset if the gifts are donated or returned. What do I do? The amount of waste makes me unhappy. Husband does not mind if the house is cluttered with unused toys but I do. He doesn’t see this as a problem and thinks I’m coming across as ungrateful.
Anon says
I’ve been known to use the “oh, that toy broke, and we had to throw it out!” for a number of unwanted/unneeded gifts. In actuality, sometimes I throw it out, sometimes it is donated, sometimes it is resold.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Ugh, gifts is last on my love languages so I totally don’t get people who show love with gifts! But it sounds like it may be their love language? Any chance you could ask for one large, pricier gift (like a bike or scooter down the line), instead of getting a bunch of small stuff? Or even an experience gift, like an aquarium membership, accompanied by a stuffie?
anon says
It’s absolutely their love language. I think that’s why they care so much about whether she plays with the toys. They equate loving toys with loving them.
Experience gifts might work. She’s getting old enough to get something out of them. I’ll suggest that.
As far as combining for the pricier gift it’s a great idea but MIL and FIL are separated. They competitively buy gifts so they unfortunately wouldn’t coordinate on a gift together.
I think the waste is what bothers me the most. None of us have much money and it bothers me that they waste their small amount of discretionary income on unwanted junk, when they could be buying us necessities.
Anonymous says
Since you’ve mentioned this twice: I think it’s weird to ask for stuff like diapers as gifts. If you really need diapers, contact a local food bank. Also my FIL is like this. Buys his adult kids stuff because he’s a bad dad. He rarely has discretionary income but when he completes a big job he takes everyone out for really expensive steak dinner. I used to feel guilty about this but 12 years in I’ve learned he’s not going to change so I should enjoy the steak.
Anon says
Agree. While diapers are a nice, useful gift, that’s a gift for the parents. Clothes, while also not fun for the kid, might be more agreeable. They would probably love to see her wearing them. If you have an outside, outside toys are also a nice out of sight out of mind thing.
Anon says
Agreed. Also I don’t think you can police what other adults do with their income. You can worry about how it affects your kid and your house, but it’s not your place to worry about how they’re spending their money, even if they don’t have very much of it.
anon says
I have no suggestions, because I’ve been there and endured that with no real change, but I want to validate you for feeling this way. It doesn’t feel generous when the gifts are burdens and come with (unrealistic) expectations about how your kid is going to react.
Anonymous says
Them wasting their money is not your problem. You have to work internally on that. You do not get to spend their money for them.
anon says
Their lack of money is our problem though. FIL regularly asks us for loans, and we paid his electric bill last summer so it wouldn’t get shut off. It is very likely we will be financially supporting them as they age. I’m coming from a very different socioeconomic reality than many of you on this board.
anon says
I mean…you didn’t share that previously, so you can’t have expected people to know that. You portrayed this as money is tight for you and your ILs are splurge-y. Your ILs are splurge-y and also ask you guys for loans adds a whole different dynamic to this.
Anon says
I’ll be supporting my in-laws when they’re unable to work. They have decent incomes but zero savings, so as soon as one of them is physically or mentally unable to work, they will need money from us. I actually don’t think that’s an unheard of situation on this board. I still don’t think it’s productive to tell them how they spend their money. You can draw boundaries as far as your support (e.g., if you waste money we won’t pay your electric bill) but telling them not to give you gifts is just going to cause hurt feelings without accomplishing anything. For people who spend frivolously like this it’s about the spending, not what they’re buying. They’ll find another way to waste their money if you won’t accept gifts from them, trust me.
anonM says
OP, this comment concerns me because it shows that the root of this is not at all about holiday gifts. It’s a much bigger issue. You and DH need to get on the same page, quickly, about how to handle financial issues around your ILs — now and as they age. It might be a good separate thread. We have dealt with family loans and other financial entanglements and it is not fun at all. And if you and DH aren’t on the same page this will get worse. Even on the same page it is a big stressor. You don’t want a Christmas Day blow-out about a loan from last summer, but this sounds like an issue that does need to be addressed. FIL shouldn’t spend 100s on unnecessary Christmas gifts for a 1yo and then ask you for a loan in January…but if he does, you and DH need to be on the same page. It’s not easy.
Anonymous says
Idk how you expect us to just guess that. And it’s still not your business. That’s what boundaries are. You decide how much and if you can support them. They decide how to use their money. The solution you want isn’t available.
Anonymous says
I actually did guess from the original post that OP and her husband were providing some financial support to the in-laws. In this situation it can easily feel like they are wasting your money. I think the solution here is to address the big-picture issue and draw boundaries around your support for the in-laws. If money is tight for you, you are not obligated to pay your parents’ utility bills, especially if you know they will turn around and buy plastic junk for your kids. You can draw some boundaries and offer non-financial support–helping them apply for Medicaid, etc.
small house says
I have a small house and this would drive me batty. From the small house perspective, I think having too many toys makes it hard for a child to play—the toys either take up the floor space for playing or are in such a jumble you can’t get them out.
I think your husband needs to understand this is a big problem for his wife and deal with it. I think unless you’re in a really tough spot, it may not be possible to get the kinds of gifts you listed, but it’s worth trying to at least cut back on the waste.
Some ideas:
-direct gift energy into smaller items that provide great long-term value (magna tiles, books) or experiences (membership to the children’s museum wrapped with a lovey from there)
-have husband make clear that excessive presents will be a waste and will leave your house. they can be offended. right now, you’re offended at their complete disregard for your family’s situation and what would benefit your child.
Anon says
yes, to me this sounds like you are not going to get your ILs to buy you diapers, but perhaps you can redirect their gift energy toward longer use toys, one larger toy as opposed to smaller ones, memberships, and/or clothes/pajamas/outerwear/bathing suits etc.
Anne-on says
+1 to setting expectations. My inlaws would always show up with tons of junky toys (sometimes actual things rescued from the trash) clothing that wasn’t needed or the wrong sizes/etc. I would literally send it back home with them, over, and over and over again. ‘Oh, this won’t work for us, thank you for thinking of us – would you like me to donate it or would you rather take it back?’ ‘Oh we don’t have space – would you prefer I donate this, or would you rather take it back?’. I didn’t get sucked into discussions on WHY it wouldn’t work and cheerfully ignored all pouting/sulking and changed the topic if they tried to bring it up again. It took a solid 2 years but they got the message eventually and stopped. It helped that they are literal horders so my husband had my back entirely as he HATES clutter from growing up like that.
Anonymous says
Put them in the attic or give a box to the ILs to keep at their house.
anonM says
COMMISSERATION. I almost forgot the year MIL and FIL who are also separated both got DS the same toy, think toy kitchens, on the same Christmas. One is now at FIL’s house, and both kids love playing with it every time we go over there! Lol, but it ended up being pretty great. The competitive gift buying is just…annoying.
Anonymous says
I think you and your husband need to be on the same page about this. If your husband doesn’t want to say anything about it (either how they spend their money or what you’re getting), I don’t think it’s really your place to do so. He can also be in charge of sorting through everything and dealing with hurt feelings. If your ILs ask you where x gift is, just tell them your husband put it away/etc.
anonM says
Agh, it’s really hard sometimes with this stuff, especially with ILs and holiday season birthdays. Both my kids have birthdays right around Christmas/new years, and kids have lots of extended family. There are positives here, of course –your little is small enough that you can let these ILs buy most of the “fun” gifts for the holidays this year, as they won’t really know the difference. And, they have extended family that love them! Now, the challenges and some things that have worked for us. First, to the extent possible, channel the gift giving — especially for things that will grow with them and to avoid the noisy/huge/wasteful toys. Try to give them some ideas now, ahead of Christmas, so they might get LO things you actually want her to have. A nice wooden block set that can “grow” with her? Clothes, something you need anywas! A nice step stool? Toddler plates/cups? Monogramed beach towels for next summer? Books? Starter art supplies like chuncky crayons? Etc. Can they give her some fun yogurt bites that will give them the satisfaction of an excited baby reaction (without loading your house with plastic)? Second, can you encourage a joint gift either between multiple family members and/or for birthday and Christmas? I realize that may change as the kids get older, but we’ve done joint/combo Christmas/Birthday gifts for both kids, and it was great. One year was a cute playhouse — two grandmas and an aunt all went in one that was nicer than what individually anyone would have been able to buy, and the kids still use it nearly daily. That’s three less people buying random toys for four separate gifts! Third, invest in some totes and shelving of some kind (I did plastic totes and an ikea bookcase, but previously stored most in the kids’ closet). Then, rotate toys. If ILs are annoyed they aren’t played with “regularly,” it happens to be true that kids get overwhelmed with huge piles of toys in the living room, so you can politely explain that you’ve found this is what works for your family and that you’ve found it actually means the kids play with the toys MORE and are more excited about the toys this way. Finally, from relatives who are more relaxed about gifts, try to save some unopened and stash for rainy/snow days rather than having them all to organize the day after Christmas.
anon says
I hear you. The grandparents got my 6 yo a globe, which is fine, right? But then decided to also get her a full sized hutch to keep it on. A 6′ long piece of furniture that didn’t fit in her room. I still can’t imagine what they were thinking.
Can you point your in laws into something that will grow with your kid? A wooden train set or magnatiles might work. Disposable things like art supplies and playdoh sets work well as the kid grows. You could also point them towards something that can be kept in the garage like a Radioflyer tricycle. They make ones with sides that would work for toddler. A wagon might also be an option. In a year, you could suggest a micro mini scooter. Those are awesome. Do you have a backyard? Would they want to get the grandkid a playset or sandbox? At least that would be outside.
anon says
A globe is hard enough to find a spot for, but an entire piece of furniture? Oh my.
Anne-on says
I think we need an entire thread on WTF grandparent presents. My personal best was when my inlaws showed up 2 days before Halloween with an entirely different costume/accessories that were neither wanted nor requested for our child’s first Halloween (think baby pumpkin outfit with leggings/hat/etc.) and then tried to pitch a fit when I wouldn’t give in and swap to their outfit.
Still not as good as the time my SIL’s inlaws gave Christmas gifts to just ONE of her three kids because that was the only child who went to church with them on Christmas Eve (so the others didn’t deserve them?!? I dunno, the kids in question were all 6 or under so it was more of a ‘no our 2 year old can’t go to a 9pm mass when we’re going the next day ourselves’ not ‘we hate you and jesus’).
anon says
I would be here for that thread!
And omg, your poor SIL. Your “not ‘we hate you and Jesus'” line made me cackle out loud.
SC says
I am here for this thread.
anonM says
OHHHH MYYY. I sometimes feel more lax/pushover than a lot of posters here, but that would have put me over the edge. Your poor SIL and her kids- wtf?! So messed up on so many levels.
anonM says
A hutch? As in a full piece of furniture without asking the parents? That’s too far and I’m pretty lax on this type of thing. Ah boy, thank you for sharing that gem.
Anon says
This is going to be my approach for this Christmas. We have so much plastic stuff inside so I’m encouraging outdoor stuff. Playhouse, larger digger set for the sandbox, a balance bike.
My family is big on gifts too.
OP I would definitely consider reselling the toys and using that money for necessities and have DH/you just tell them that toy is in storage or kids room if they ask.
Anonymous says
Could you put the majority of the toys away in the attic or a closet? Then rotate them though every few weeks so kiddo has something new. I totally understand the urge to get rid of them all. And I think it’s fine to get rid of lots of them, and chipperly say “Thanks for all the toys: we just don’t have room!” When ILs complain.
Mary Moo Cow says
This doesn’t get at the root of the problem, but some short term solutions are to to start implementing a rotation system for toys. Fill up one or two giant storage boxes now, store them in the attic or to garage or closet, and make a calendar reminder to bring them out again in two months. Do a purge now or right before Christmas of all the toys she got for her birthday and Christmas last year and either store them for a future baby or sell or donate them. When in-laws ask, you can honestly say she’s outgrown them or forgotten about them because she loves the new ones they gave her. Quietly purge every few months, either swapping a few toys in and out of storage or getting rid of them. Too many will be noticed, but a few toys usually doesn’t get noticed because the givers still see at least a few things they recognize.
The bigger issues are communication and family values. Those are much harder to change. In the middle ground is storage: how can you minimize the clutter of unused toys so that it doesn’t bother you but baby still has access and in-laws toys get used? More baskets or bins, or a nightly sweep?
anon says
You’re not wrong, but I hate that this is almost definitely going to fall on the OP to implement. And if storage space is an issue already, it’s an additional stressor. OP, if you go this route, I think it becomes your DH’s job to manage since it’s his parents who are creating this insanity.
SC says
Commiseration. I’ve been in a situation where money is tight, space is tight, and there’s a deluge of toys at Christmas. I think you have to separate your feelings about receiving “fun” gifts when you feel like you need practical items from your feelings about what to do with these items when they come in.
– Let go of your angst or guilt about waste. They’re wasting money, but you don’t get to choose what they do with their money. You’re not going to convince them to buy diapers.
– You can control clutter in your own home. Showing gratitude for a gift is not the same thing as keeping it forever. Your husband needs to be on board with that, and he needs to talk to his parents about it if they say anything about a toy that’s no longer in your home.
– Save your money for practical gifts. For my kid’s first Christmas, I spent $55 on books, clothes, and blocks. They were probably bought from our local consignment sale.
– Suggest to your in-laws toys that are pricey but don’t take up too much space (wooden toys, magnatiles), experience gifts like a zoo membership, and practical gifts that are “fun” because they have a character on them (sippy cups, clothes, etc.).
– All toys, even gifts, eventually get donated. Kids grow fast and outgrow certain toys, even well-loved ones, quickly. Rotate toys in and out, take pictures and text them to in-laws, and donate anything that doesn’t get played with.
Aunt Jamesina says
OP, I just want to offer my sympathy. It is so frustrating to be inundated with so much crap that is both financial and environmental waste, especially when you note that you’ve had to help out your FIL financially!
anon says
This may not be a popular opinion, but I believe part of having good relationships with people is being a “good receiver.” It’s a two-way street. Giving and receiving. Both components are important in a relationship. That means you accept gifts without complaint and let the exchange feel positive. Then give away and donate items when they are no longer suitable for your child or they don’t make sense for your space. Don’t try to manage the giving stage (other people’s choices). Manage the giving-away stage (your choices).
anon says
Doesn’t this just create another task to do? Gathering the things up and driving them to the thrift store or whatever creates an extra chore for the recipient. It’s not a HUGE deal but it is inconvenient
anon says
As a parent, you have to give away extra toys and clothes anyway because kids constantly outgrow things. Add the gifts to the pile. You’ll only make yourself frustrated and cause tension if you try to control what other people give you, saying contributions to 529 plans and diapers are okay but toys aren’t. I mean, that’s just going to make grandparents sad. Of course they want to give “fun” gifts. They want to see their grandchild’s eyes light up with joy. Who wouldn’t? It’s unrealistic and potentially rude to try to constrict family members too much in this regard.
bt, dt says
I was the first grandchild in a low-income family, and my dad’s side of the family used gifts—and demonstrated appreciation for them—as a barometer for love. The waste drove my mom up a wall, but my dad’s position was that we should appreciate anything we receive. So the pattern continued until I was 15-ish and grew my own voice. I suggest figuring out what you can control and what you can’t control, and putting the latter out of your mind ASAP so your in-laws are only wasting their money, not your time and energy. I know sending me to school in worn clothes and watching her in-laws pinch pennies to pay their bills while my closet was filled with unused toys grated on my mom. But you can’t control how adults spend their money; you can only control whether they get to take up real estate in your house and your mind. Beyond that, grieve that they could help you but are unwilling to do so and try to let go.
You don’t mention whether their gifts are intended to bring your daughter joy or merely be showpieces. If the former, you have a bit of control over the gifts themselves so putting thought into wish lists of “fun” items you would buy anyway and long-term use toys is a great way minimize waste. If the latter, your wish lists will likely fall on deaf ears so the effort you put into creating them will only make you feel worse because your in-laws are now wasting their money and your time/energy. My mom eventually realized that the wish lists were ignored because my dad’s family wanted to maximize their budget by buying the grandest items available on clearance sale, regardless of whether they suited my interests. As an adult, I think this was a result of their narcissism and, sadly, their genuine belief that I would enjoy any toy (because they had so few toys growing up that they would have appreciated anything).
It’s possible that I’m projecting, but your comment about your in-laws being offended if toys aren’t played with and engaging in competitive gifting struck a chord with me. I was a sensitive, people-pleasing child and my dad’s family made it crystal clear that I was hurting their feelings if I didn’t love everything they gave me. I distinctly recall being early elementary school age and feeling a pit in my stomach at the thought of opening gifts in front of them because I was worried that they would know I was faking excitement and feeling the need to rotate through playing with the gifts for equal amounts of time so no one’s feelings would be hurt. As time went on, I grew to dread exchanging gifts, I would claim to be sick so I could sit out of gift opening, and I would “accidentally” break or lose toys after I got them home so I wouldn’t have to answer questions about how much I loved and used them. Your daughter is too young to be affected by any of that now, but I would keep an eye out for that as she grows up. Halting my dad’s family’s manipulative behaviors was absolutely within my parents’ control, and the failure to do that hurt me more as a child and affects me more as an adult than the lavish display of crappy gift-giving itself.
Anonymous says
WWYD. My 1st grader is in a classroom with two children that have pretty severe behavioral/emotional issues. One kid I know from preschool and he’s got severe emotional regulatory problems and will do things like scream/tantrum for 30+ minutes, threaten to (or actually) physically harm himself (bang against desk, jab himself with pencils/scissors that sort of thing). He has not yet been physically violent to other students but he is getting worse, not better, so it’s a concern to me as a parent.
The other child has physical outbursts/tantrums that have turned violent toward classmates. Yesterday he didn’t want to follow the teacher’s instructions so started running around the room throwing classroom objects. The teacher had pencils and markers thrown at her, my kid and several others were hit with flash cards, unifix cubes, etc. I wasn’t there so can’t be sure, but it seemed more like a tantrum in which he was throwing things and the people happened to be in the way, vs throwing them *at* people, if that makes sense. They had to “evacuate the classroom for safety reasons” aka the whole class left with the teacher while the school psychologist and another teacher stayed with the child having the tantrum.
Anyway, I have a meeting with the principal later today. My biggest concern is helping to get the teacher the support she needs to ensure my kid- and the other kids- feel like they are safe in their classroom. I’m annoyed that this is the 3rd or 4th time they have had to “evacuate the classroom for safety reasons” and yet only the first time we were told. I’m also bothered by the fact that there was not a second adult in the room when things went sideways, so the class had to wait for another adult to arrive before they could leave.
I have already talked to the classroom teacher– I had to reach out when the kid that screams was seated next to my child and she came home with a headache two days in a row because “X was screaming in my face all morning long.” She’s a wonderful teacher but this is, in my opinion, beyond the capabilities of normal classroom management.
Any tips or advice on how to approach this with the principal/ what is reasonable to ask for? FWIW, my neighbor has a child with similar behavioral issues. He attends another school due to weird district boundaries and is two years older. I have considered reaching out to her to understand what kind of accommodations he has at school but I’m not exactly sure how to use the information as I know it’s an ongoing battle with them (neighbors are extremely open about it; it comes up basically every time we get together– kiddo has been sent to the principals X times, here’s the latest way they’ve made us feel like bad parents, etc).
Again, the goal here is to ensure my kid FEELS safe and not like every day might be a day she gets a book in the eye (this actually happened to a child in PK– the kid with the throwing issues did it), and obviously that is IS safe.
Anonymous says
I would focus on your kid and the impact on her. Be polite but firm. “This is what is happening to my child. What can we do to keep her safe and allow her to learn?” Keep the focus off of the teacher. The school is not going to do anything to remove the kids with behavior problems from the classroom, but if they think you are going to be the squeaky wheel or go up the chain of command if she is physically harmed, they may agree to move her to a different class.
To ensure that your kid is not placed in a class with the problem kids next year, you can start volunteering regularly at the school now. In our school the prominent volunteer parents always get preferential treatment for their kids–better teachers, student of the month awards, selection for student advisory committees, etc.
anon says
They won’t tell you anything about the other kid. Not about his accommodations or where they are in the process for getting him more resources. All you can ask about is the plan for keeping your kid safe both physically and emotionally. *Every time* your kid is affected, you need to reach out and let them know that their plan isn’t working and your kid feels unsafe. Create a written record. The principal can use that to get more resources for the kid who needs more help.
Anonymous says
It sounds like the child needs a full-time para assigned to them and might also need an inclusion class (which has 2 teachers). That is what would happen at our public school. And there is a kid in my son’s grade who has had similar episodes that resulted in the rest of the class leaving for the block room temporarily. Honestly I would ask the teacher how you can support her – she’s in a better position to understand what leverage will be helpful right now.
Anon for this says
Ugh, this is really hard. I have a lot of feelings about this that I’m afraid to say here for fear of being attacked. So instead I will just put out a few questions to consider: what is it that you want from this situation specifically? Not how you want your child to feel, but what is it you are hoping the school will do? What is it specifically that you want the child of this parent to do? Consider action items vs generalities about how things should be.
I’m sure you’ll get a million responses about how the solution isn’t really your problem, it’s the school’s issue, and your child shouldn’t have to deal with this at all. But practically speaking, this is a really tough situation for all involved. What is *needed* is more teachers and more resources to help kids who are struggling and acting out. (Your daughter shouldn’t have to do deal with this situation, but she does because of systematic issues that are really difficult and frustrating.) But adding more teachers is probably not an option at the principal’s disposal, frankly.
For what it’s worth, I don’t know many first grade classrooms that have two teachers present at all times. I agree that they *should* but I don’t know if it’s fair to be upset specifically that only one adult was present in the class.
Anon says
Agree with this. I’ve never heard of a public school class having two teachers; didn’t even know that was a thing.
Anonymous says
Classes with mainstreamed IEP kids often have a second “resource” teacher to focus on these kids.
Anon says
Like 25% of the kids in our public schools have IEPs so I don’t think it would be possible to have a second teacher in every room with an IEP kid…
Anonymous says
Our district puts the ones with the most serious needs together in one mainstreamed classroom with one resource teacher. It’s terrible for the non-IEP kids and the lead teacher.
Anonymous says
I’m in NYC, and ICT classes with 2 teachers are fairly common in our public school – this is a good explanation: https://www.nycschoolhelp.com/blog/2015/7/31/help-my-kindergartener-got-an-ict-placement-whatever-that-is
The ICT classes my son has had have generally been good. It is always going to come down to the skills of the individual teachers, but the lower student to teacher ratio is hard to beat.
There are also all different kinds of IEPs and levels of intervention needed; my son has an IEP but it just mandates that he get occupational therapy 2x a week and extra time on certain tests. He was in ICT classes as a general ed student, not because of his IEP.
AwayEmily says
Integrated classrooms are not always terrible. My (non-IEP) daughter is in the integrated IEP class for the second year in a row and it’s been wonderful for her. There’s a second resource teacher to provide extra help, plus frequently an aide and/or volunteer (a retired teacher who comes in sometimes to help out). And both years, the main teacher + the resource teacher have been teaching together for years and work very well together. Just putting it out there as an example of how things can sometimes work. I think the district has to be really committed to making it work, though.
And FWIW this is not a fancy school, it’s a city school ranked in the bottom 10% of elementary schools in the state. It’s not a perfect place, but they take IEPs very seriously — indeed, better than some of the suburban school my coworkers’ kids go to.
Anonymous says
OP here again. Two full time teachers is not a reality, no, but a second adult is realistic in our district. I think they are trying to patchwork together a full time second person but it isn’t an official role. From what my kid tells me, the guidance counselor spends a lot of time in the room, as does the Social worker.
My other kids have had, for example, students with physical or academic needs that have a full time aide who, while technically there for a specific child, is there as a second adult in an emergency type situation.
By way of an update, I just wrapped up my call. They have already modified one of the children’s IEPs and have requested more support staff for him.
I spoke with the principal, assistant principal and guidance counselor so even if it was just lip service I felt like they took me seriously and were also working on improving the classroom environment.
Anon for this says
Perfect! I’m glad there are options and it sounds like it may work out. (Hopefully…..)
Anonymous says
OP here. I want my kid (and really, all the kids! And the teacher too! But only one is my direct responsibility.) to feel safe in the classroom.
My meeting with the principal is to better understand how they are ensuring my kid feels- and is- safe in her classroom. I am willing to help in whatever way I can, including rallying other parents to help, but they may not have any use for me. I frankly don’t even care if her learning is disrupted. She’s a smart cookie and will be fine.
DH and I are both active school volunteers. This is my 3rd kid at the school and the first time I’ve ever had to request *anything*- I literally never email the teachers or admin unless I happen to be a room parent that year.
Anonymous says
I think you need to focus exclusively on your child. It is not your business what is being done for the other kids and no one in the school will engage with you on that. “Katie was hit yesterday.” “Katie has been evacuated 4 times and I wasn’t informed.” “Katie has headaches from classroom noise.”
Anonymous says
This. Focus on your child and demand solutions for HER.
Anon for this says
That’s all fair. I just think you need to consider (and be honest with yourself about) what it is specifically that you’re asking for.
Are you looking solely for information about what the school’s response to these tantrums? Or is there a solution you think the school should have put in place that they have not yet put in place? What would you do if you were in the principal’s /teacher’s/parent’s shoes?
I’m really not trying to be critical of you, you should like a great parent and ultimately we all just want what’s best for our kids.
Anonymous says
I don’t think it should be about making your kid *feel* safe. She needs to actually *be* safe. If you focus on her feeling safe, maybe they’ll offer socio-emotional learning lessons or some other touchy-feely nonsense, or communicate more with parents about classroom evacuations. To actually keep her safe, she needs to be in a classroom where kids are not screaming and throwing things. This means moving her to another class, because they aren’t going to remove the kids who are screaming and throwing.
Anon says
I agree this isn’t about feelings but about an acceptably safe environment.
Though school doesn’t only need to be safe; it also has to be an environment suitable for learning.
I’m a full grown adult, and I think I would have trouble learning something I needed to know if the training took place in an environment with someone screaming and throwing things as you’ve described. I would probably struggle at least a little to focus on learning new information if I were so much as around a coworker who had behaved violently around me recently who happened to be on better behavior today.
Anon says
I would try to get your kid switched to another classroom. Maybe I’m cynical, but they’re probably going to poorly manage the situation and the teacher is stuck in a terrible situation. One of my friends taught a similar class one year and it was miserable for her. I also used to babysit a girl who was later diagnosed with several issues and the school was not helpful – this girl would get suspended for attacking the teacher and then go right back without adequate support. Her parents weren’t extremely savvy so it took them a while to figure out how to get help. She was eventually able to go to a special school but that wasn’t until high school.
Yes, the school should be getting resources to help the teacher and the students, but they’re unlikely to do that without serious fire under them (maybe legal issues, this seems like assault?). While all that goes on your kid is going to be stuck in that class. Maybe see what the administration has to say, but I’d be very firm about your concerns and request to be moved.
IDK says
I think public schools are in a really tough position and frankly don’t have “resources” to give. (Assuming that by resources, you mean more teachers?)
And I really hate that we are now suggesting that 1st graders are committing crimes.
Anonymous says
First-graders are typically 7 or even 8 years old these days. It’s not preschool where you laugh and shrug it off as developmentally appropriate when your kid gets hit or bit. Also, the kids are bigger and are capable of doing real physical harm. Our school had one who threw chairs at people.
Anon says
My friend was a 1st grade teacher. A student of hers broke 3 of her ribs during an outburst.
Anon says
I also hate the suggestion that 1st graders are committing crimes.
At the same time, I really don’t believe that 1st graders need a class environment that is LESS safe or LESS chaotic than what an adult would need.
Anonymous says
Yeah, I don’t think the ADA requires accommodations like everyone else’s evacuating the office when an employee starts screaming and throwing stuff.
Anon says
I don’t think public schools are entirely without resources. Teacher’s aids, special education classes, skill programs, or even sending kids to resources hosted by other schools are common. They may just need dedicated aids. Often though public schools don’t want to do these things until they’re forced to. There’s a whole industry around hiring consultants to help children at public schools get appropriate IEPs. This applies to even well-funded public schools in ritzy areas. Some schools are better than others but if the kids don’t have involved parents they may not get what they need until something really bad happens.
I’m not saying that these kids should be arrested or anything, but the school has a legal responsibility to protect the teacher and the students, including the disruptive students. Sometimes administrators may need to be reminded of that that to motivate them to do something that’s actually helpful. Administrators can talk a good game but talk is meaningless without the action to back it up.
Anon says
for those of you with big jobs or spouses with big jobs, how do you find time to get anything personal done, like especially if you have the kind of job where you work again after the kids go to bed. I don’t have that kind of job, but DH does and I feel like despite lots of outsourcing we are drowning, particularly since our kids stopped napping (we have 4 year old twins).
TheElms says
Two big jobs. Honestly, we don’t. I don’t ever get my nails done. I get my hair cut once or twice a year (fortunately its straight so it looks professional enough as either a chin length bob, a shoulder length bob, or below shoulder length bob. I don’t get messages. I probably need PT for a couple issues but there is zero way to make that work. I schedule all doctor’s appointments during the day and then make the time up at night. When we need to do something non-negotiable (taxes) it happens between the hours of 11pm and 1am or we get a nanny on the weekend and just don’t see the kids for a morning / afternoon. We’ve also hired an evening nanny to do bedtime 1-2 times a week (mostly so we can work late, but theoretically it would allow us to go to dinner or get some household management tasks done.) Sometimes one of us can get a couple hours when one kid is doing an activity if the baby is napping at the same time or person with kid in the activity can take the baby.
Mary Moo Cow says
Do you mean personal outside the home, around the home, or both? Outside the house is much harder for me: I haven’t had a haircut since Spring because the hours of operation just don’t align well. Dry cleaning is a similar sad affair because who has time to drop off and pick up? Around the house is easier; I do chores around tasks on work from home days and occasionally after bedtime and on weekends.
Do you feel like you are the only one who isn’t get personal things done and it is time for a conversation and realignment?
Anonymous says
More outsourcing – especially mindless stuff that just takes up time line laundry, meal prep etc. That and the person with the most downtime on the job does more personal stuff that can’t be outsourced, like taking kids to doctor appointments. Three kids in, my job was providing less than income than we could afford to outsource, so I stopped picking up new contracts. The downside of this is of course, now I’m having a hard time picking up new contracts because someone is always sick or has a school project. We also have twins (and an older kid) and I think most of twin life is just feeling like you’re drowning. We found a babysitter who takes the kids for one weekend a month and that’s when we normally do house projects, planning and paperwork.
Boston Legal Eagle says
What is your care situation? You may need to up it – weeknight evening help, weekend sitters, etc. Is husband not available at all at night and on weekends?
Clementine says
Here are some things I do to keep things moving –
My dentist does 7AM cleanings. I always book that slot and can still be at work on time/early.
I get my hair cut/colored on Friday afternoons when my kids are still in care. I block off the time on my calendar and actually bring my laptop and catch up on emails/to-dos while my color is processing. My stylist is cool with this and it works because people try and avoid scheduling meetings after 3PM on a Friday.
I stopped getting my nails done, but for a long while I had a colleague with whom I needed a once a month check-in meeting. We would book those meetings during lunch and get our nails done together. This was mutually beneficial for us because the project moved along perfectly (it was a lot of just bouncing ideas off one another, talking through next steps type stuff).
Really though, we got an au pair because the only fluff in my day was childcare drop off/pick up/driving between those things. She’s amazing and has improved my quality of life so much.
anon says
Live in childcare. We have an au pair. It makes a huge difference to us to have an extra set of hands. If I get an urgent work email, I can walk out of the room and the au pair takes over. She also does a ton of the drudgery (sticking kid clothes in the laundry, doing kid laundry, packing kid lunches, tying kid shoes, finding lost kid gloves or socks or shoes, doing kid hair, supervising teeth brushing) while I have quality time with my kids, especially during breakfast and dinner. I also don’t have to do a second shift after bedtime to pack bags or sort kid stuff because she does that. She also takes the kids to school and activities and can do bathtime so I have some wiggle room before and after work. And she covers minor sick days and school holidays.
There’s start up effort to find a good person and get her started and then you need to have some flexibility so she has an awesome year in the US, but we’ve found a way to make it work for everyone.
Anonymous says
If you really want to do it yourself, or it’s things like haircuts where you actually have to be present, you need to bake it into your work week and/or extend your childcare to make your working hours longer.
3 hour hair appt? Saturday AMs and kids either are with dad or a sitter. Or I take half a day off work.
I also generally set the bar lower with both work and home.
Anon says
I think when someone is really struggling, the three-hour haircuts have to go completely (and they certainly shouldn’t take up precious weekend time that could be used for family time or personal hobbies). OP, if haircuts are actually one of your stressors, can you get them much less often or switch to a simple style that’s a 20-30 minute cut?
Anon says
I commented elsewhere but switching from salon color to just doing the Madison Reed box at home really helped my schedule. Those appointments were so long and I honestly need hair color every ten weeks or so (although I was stretching it longer – because I didn’t have time to come in!) Highly recommend.
Anonymous says
Counterpoint: Madison Reed actually takes me longer than salon color because I am so much less efficient at applying it than my stylist. Color adds an hour to my haircut but takes me more like 2 hours at home.
Anonymous says
I have a pixie cut that requires 2 hours at the salon every 4 weeks for cut and color. With a pixie cut, I can dry and style my hair in 5 minutes. Pre-pixie, my hair required 30 minutes of blow-drying every morning to be even halfway presentable. The salon time is 100% worthwhile.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
Some stuff just takes longer depending. I get a very simple trim and single-process dye. I have textured hair – it is fine, curly hair and thus go to a curly salon. Even walking out with a wet head it takes ~2 hours. I go quarterly.
Anon says
IMO, the best thing to do to reduce the load is to cut out all you can (instead of trying to outsource it/optimize it). Get fewer haircuts, don’t get manicures, don’t buy clothes that require dry cleaning or any other special care, buy less stuff so you don’t have to deal with returns, get a regular rotation of simple meals going so you’re not chasing down specialty ingredients at different stores, etc. A simpler life (and eschewing many “beauty requirements”) gives me MUCH more time in the month for things that bring me joy, like my hobbies, and reduces the feeling of drowning.
Anon says
Good advice! I’m now trying to think of more things I can simplify…
Anne-on says
We pay for help, a lot of it. At that age we had an au pair (and only one child) who could do kid meals, kid laundry, the driving to/from daycare, bath time and bedtime. We also had house cleaners, a dog walker, and my only recurring beauty appointments were haircuts and a monthly massage. Au pair would drop off returns if they were already packaged up (ditto with dry cleaning). We aimed for 2 nights we both went to the gym (sometimes I’d skip the gym and get a massage or pedicure) and those nights were takeout for kiddo so I didn’t have to cook. We also scheduled the au pair for 3-4 hours on a Sunday so she could help prep for the week (set out clothes, play with kiddo while I shopped/meal prepped/etc.).
I wish there was a magic solution but unfortunately if you both work long hours you likely need to pay for outsourcing as much household stuff as you can so that you ‘only’ do the fun or necessary things.
Ditto says
Wow, I’m amazed reading all these comments because we’ve done the same. I don’t think we’ve exactly discussed this on this board? So yeah, we just reprioritized.
Like the other poster, I haven’t gotten my nails done literally in years. I switched from getting my hair dyed at a salon to doing it from a box at home – not for cost reasons but because of time. I do not wear clothes that require dry cleaning. I only online shop and I buy things from amazon too much because I can return to whole foods.
Give some examples of what you’re trying to get done? When in doubt we bring kids along on the weekend – garden center or grocery store or whatnot. I do still try to make dentist and GP happen for myself during work hours. I’d love to get botox or laser hair removal but those are all going to have to wait.
The one thing I do prioritize is working out with a trainer twice a week for thirty minutes (strength training). I do that during my only two free lunches.
Clementine says
You know, I feel like this just validates that: there is no magic bullet. There’s no spectacular way to somehow time travel and get more time in a 24 hour period.
Here’s a line of women who have ruthlessly looked at their own situations and opportunities and come up with similar strategies. That’s extremely validating to me.
FWIW – on the ‘why are these all beauty answers’… it’s because that’s one of the only things that I personally need to be in attendance for. I can order groceries on the internet, I can’t get my teeth virtually cleaned or hire a sitter to go take my hair to get cut.
Anne-on says
+1 to this – I was on a work webcast around working parenting support/solutions and one of the female partners said ‘I ask my colleagues and clients if they want to do nail salon/hair salon meetings. The men can go golfing, I can ask someone if they want to talk while we do manis/pedis. I wanted to stand up and applaud’.
Anon says
Ugh…obviously YMMV, but I don’t want to bond with work colleagues over expensive, time-consuming beauty rituals. Many women like sports, including golf, and it sucks to miss out on the fun bonding activity that has elements of skill, nature, fresh air, etc. I understand the point about combining the work with something that “needs” to get done, but nails aren’t actually a necessity.
Anonymous says
Ugh, hard no to salon meetings. I once got a manicure at a salon where three women who seemed to be senior associates at a law firm were loudly gossiping and drinking wine and chatting about their next glamourous business trip, while two junior associates sat on the floor working on their laptops and occasionally showing their work to the senior associates for approval. Then one of the senior associates paid for the group and said something about expensing it. It was disgusting.
Anonymous says
Before we converted to permanent WFH, some people in my office would do walking meetings.
Marshmallow says
If I have a random hour of reading I need to do in hard copy, I book it to the nail salon near my office and sit in the pedi chair with a binder in my lap and a highlighter. I probably annoy my nail tech but I have done with when getting gel manis too, although it’s trickier (reading material on my lap). Amazing idea to level up and use this time for networking or mentoring!
Aunt Jamesina says
Does anyone else here hate manis and pedis? They aren’t relaxing at all to me. I like the outcome, but I’d rather do it at home and save the time and expense (Dazzle Dry to the rescue!).
Anon says
I hate manis, because you don’t have your hands free. But I love getting pedicures especially when I go alone and bring a book (I like going with my kid too, but it’s not as relaxing). I love the leg massage haha.
Anonymous says
I hate manis and pedis. I always do my own toenails because the foot baths and files gross me out. I used to get a professional mani once in a while because the results are better, but I’ve started doing my own with Dazzle Dry and am getting halfway decent at it.
Anon says
I do it during my work day – it’s all hands on deck when the kids are home and awake. Key to me is schedule everything in advance, in blocks of work / self / family / home over the course of a workweek. I book personal things a month in advance and block my calendar. I get by brows / hair done by the same person near my house, so I schedule those for a work from home day. Don’t do nails, dye my hair at home either very early in the morning (wake up at 5) or some weekday evening after the kids are asleep. I work out, sporadically, very early in the morning but I’ll drop the workout sessions if I’ve been up late because lack of sleep impacts everything else. I get my reading-for-fun in while the kids are at swim / gymnastics class.
And some days … kids eat chicken nuggets in front of the t.v. while I finish calls with opposing counsel because some days thats as best that I can manage. And it’s fine.
Anon says
I’m confused why all the responses are about beauty maintenance because I thought the question was broader than that? But fwiw I don’t have a big job and I still never get my nails done and rarely get my hair cut. That was the first thing to go when I had kids because it’s just not a priority for me.
Anonymous says
Yeah, I think people interpreted “personal” as “personal care.” I interpreted it as “all non-work things.”
We just don’t have weekends. Everything that I’d do during the week if I were a SAHM has to get done by me and my husband on Saturday and Sunday, so we rarely do anything fun and never sit around relaxing. It’s a slog.
Anon says
It is a slog! But it will probably get better as your kids get older and have activities and friend outings that don’t require your presence. This academic year my preschooler has 3 hours of regularly scheduled drop-off activities and the occasional dropoff playdate and having those 3-5 hours/week to either relax or get personal errand type stuff done has been pretty life-changing.
Eh says
Beauty is the thing that I have to do myself. Everything else I can outsource better – and she said she’s alraedy doing all the outsourcing. So we use instacart, we get babysitters, etc. But hair color? I can just cut that out.
big job spouse says
I posted a few weeks ago about having a big law spouse and feeling overwhelmed. Since then, my spouse and I have had some serious discussions and he’s been stepping up (his job will take any time he can give—he has to draw some lines), we’ve started a meal delivery service, and I’ve been doing more during my work day when LO is in daycare (exercise, appointments, self-care). And I try to include LO in dinner and toy clean up, so once LO’s asleep I can relax. Not perfect but I keep telling myself this is all temporary and will get easier.
OP says
yea i guess i should’ve been more specific, but i was not referring to getting my haircut, which takes 1 hour, 3x per year, but more like, we need to look at, discuss and select health insurance plans for next year, we had a rug delivered that is too heavy for me to carry alone up the stairs, we have to discuss kindergarten for next year, put stuff away around the house, etc. i guess the commiseration helps. Both kids seem to need us more at an emotional level and used to be great at going to bed right away, but not so much right now.
Momofthree says
It is hard. We’re in the middle of that right now. Some ideas- lunch dates, walking dates, weekly sit-downs where you come with agenda items. Maybe even doing things over email.
That sounds unromantic- but what you’re describing is more on the “business” side of parenting/marriage- i.e., the strategic, big decisions. You need to have discussions about them- setting up time specifically for it & sticking to it is something you need to plan for. Or if you don’t/can’t, then you just need to make sure that someone is making a decision on it (i.e., that someone will have sign-up for health insurance) and recognize it may not be the absolute optimal decision, but that you don’t have time for anything more.
This year, our discussion on open enrollment has been multiple 10 sec. comments in passing/ my husband looking over my benefits brochure & me complaining about deductibles going up, then me creating a plan for myself on how I’ll follow up with the implications of that (increase my FSA, try to get OON providers pre-approved, etc.)
This is hard & some things will get deprioritized.
Anonymous says
It’s not that we don’t have time for this, but DH hates discussing this stuff. I learned from this board to either schedule a babysitter and go out for a beer and tell him ahead of time we need to pick a healthcare plan (irony heh), or do at home date night where we put all the kids to bed and make our own dinner and talk about the month ahead – who’s doing what kid activities and who’s traveling, etc. We actually bought a sauna a few years ago and we have a lot of family business discussions together in the sauna after the kids are all asleep. I realize everyone can’t just buy a sauna but it’s been an unexpected benefit (DH got a huge side eye from me when he bought it).
Spirograph says
um, this is genius. we do wine with our finances nights, but a sauna sounds even better.
Anon says
Ask your spouse to help carry the rug up tonight. Or next time you catch him with free time. I have a to-do list of random projects like this (however small) and try to do them whenever I’m feeling up for it or when spouse is available.
Narrow down to 2-3 options for insurance, kindergarten, etc.
Have him do other tasks to balance the mental/workload. Based on advice from other threads here—divide tasks by strengths.
You sound a little burned out. I hope you can find time to sleep, get outside, do things that make you happy.
Anon says
Oh for this stuff, I call him when we’re both commuting into our offices. Our house is a mess and the rug would stay downstairs until DH was in town from his business trip. For some things like health insurance plans, do you really need to discuss? One of us generally takes a look and lets the other know what’s happening. We do not schedule a regular date night or meeting for this stuff and it’s fine – honestly, that’s one more commitment I’d need to make time for. I think this is a case of don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Seafinch says
Same. We do a lot of consultation on our commute (which we actually do in person, together), we also do it over getting dinner on the table or dishes, or after the kids re in bed. And further to my comments yesterday about my husband not being good at organizing, I will just make decisions. I would pick the health plan etc and tell him. We are hosting his cousins for dinner tomorrow and it has been a mad week so I didn’t consult on the menu. I just made an executive decision. He is very laid back, unopinionated and takes the approach that I don’t need his input so it is easy and maybe unique to us. Lots of other coordination happens in ten second increments. He asked yesterday if I was good with our oldest going to a tournament alone without us, if she went with friends. I said, yes. Done. But I do a lot in 15 minute increments. I make lists in priority sequence and work through it. I basically can always find 15 minutes to strike something off the list. My work ebb and flows but is absolutely bonkers right now and I stayed at work two nights this week to get a few extra hours in and get ahead. He handled dinner and it was mediocre but it didn’t matter. Kids were fed. Not a big deal. No extra errands or chores are getting done but we are on top of the basics due to taking the 15 minutes a couple of times a day.
Anon says
Not sure if any of this experience is helpful, but:
– For insurance – unless something has changed dramatically we just don’t change our insurance from year to year. Usually my office sends a one pager of a quick over view of what has changed so I can quickly review that, if nothing is egregious then I just sign up again for the plan we’ve been on.
– The rug can stay put until there’s an evening you’re both home. Not the prettiest option, but that’s fine. There’s been a chest of drawers in my living room for 2 weeks while we figure out where it’s going and what it’s replacing.
– Not sure how old your kids are (besides the soon to be kindergartener) but we set a timer for 5 (or 10) minutes every night after dinner that we use for picking things up. It’s not used for actual cleaning but for picking up the common spaces, putting things away, loading the dishwasher and washing hand wash dishes and wiping down the counter after dinner. Even young kids partake, even if they’re not actually doing much yet (just for the habit of family cleanup). I also have a bin with everyone’s initials on it by the stairs. Whatever I come across downstairs that belongs upstairs gets put in the correct bin. It might not be “away” but it’s not in the living room.
– As for kindergarten, not sure what you have to discuss but I’d book a “date” night (either at home after the kids are in bed or out) to discuss. Put it on both of your calendars.
Anon says
Benefits is office-dependent. I always have to re-enroll and it’s a fairly time-consuming process even if I don’t want to change anything.
Anon says
I also have to re-enroll manually each time, but I save the mental energy and time of reviewing the choices each year
Spirograph says
We just did health insurance earlier this week (in-home date night: finances version) and literally I said, “That BCBS plan is $80 cheaper per month with a lower deductible but since there’s no coinsurance we’d max our deductible if we had more than a couple non-preventive care things and we’d have to call all our health care providers to make sure they take that plan…. eff it, the current one is fine, my time is worth more than the money we might save”
I do some light house-straightening and cycle laundry when I have a few min between meetings while wfh (I do not do laundry on non-wfh days, and I fold all of it at night while watching TV with my husband). For things like carrying a giant rug upstairs, that rug would probably sit in our living room for a week until some Saturday afternoon when the kids were playing outside.
For the kindergarten discussion, what do you need to discuss? School choice is the sort of thing (along with summer camps) that one of us will do all the research and basically make a decision, then give the highlights to the other while we’re cooking dinner or something, just to make sure we don’t have wildly divergent ideas before executing. Or we put it in a shared google document and email the link so the other can look at it during the work day.
In general, I home from work a lot. My job has a ton of meetings and fire fighting, so work days are not useful for doing head-down thinking or anything that needs flow; I have to do that at night when I can string together an hour or two without interruption. But the 10-20 minutes I sometimes have between meetings & email processing are good for doing household logistics.
Anonymous says
How would you handle this situation?
My 1st grader is in a classroom with two children that have pretty severe behavioral/emotional issues. One kid I know from preschool and he’s got severe emotional regulatory problems and will do things like scream/tantrum for 30+ minutes, threaten to (or actually) physically harm himself (bang against desk, jab himself with pencils/scissors that sort of thing). He has not yet been physically violent to other students but he is getting worse, not better, so it’s a concern to me as a parent.
The other child has physical outbursts/tantrums that have turned violent toward classmates. Yesterday he didn’t want to follow the teacher’s instructions so started running around the room throwing classroom objects. The teacher had pencils and markers thrown at her, my kid and several others were hit with flash cards, unifix cubes, etc. I wasn’t there so can’t be sure, but it seemed more like a tantrum in which he was throwing things and the people happened to be in the way, vs throwing them *at* people, if that makes sense. They had to “evacuate the classroom for safety reasons” aka the whole class left with the teacher while the school psychologist and another teacher stayed with the child having the tantrum.
Anyway, I have a meeting with the principal later today. My biggest concern is helping to get the teacher the support she needs to ensure my kid- and the other kids- feel like they are safe in their classroom. I’m annoyed that this is the 3rd or 4th time they have had to “evacuate the classroom for safety reasons” and yet only the first time we were told. I’m also bothered by the fact that there was not a second adult in the room when things went sideways, so the class had to wait for another adult to arrive before they could leave.
I have already talked to the classroom teacher– I had to reach out when the kid that screams was seated next to my child and she came home with a headache two days in a row because “X was screaming in my face all morning long.” She’s a wonderful teacher but this is, in my opinion, beyond the capabilities of normal classroom management.
Any tips or advice on how to approach this with the principal/ what is reasonable to ask for? FWIW, my neighbor has a child with similar behavioral issues. He attends another school due to weird district boundaries and is two years older. I have considered reaching out to her to understand what kind of accommodations he has at school but I’m not exactly sure how to use the information as I know it’s an ongoing battle with them (neighbors are extremely open about it; it comes up basically every time we get together– kiddo has been sent to the principals X times, here’s the latest way they’ve made us feel like bad parents, etc).
Again, the goal here is to ensure my kid FEELS safe and not like every day might be a day she gets a book in the eye (this actually happened to a child in PK– the kid with the throwing issues did it), and obviously that is IS safe.
So Anon says
I would approach the meeting with the principal with curiosity. As you’ve said, you have heard one side of what is happening in the classroom. I think it is perfectly fair to ask how the kids in the classroom are being kept safe and able to engage in their education. I caution, however, that there is a tone to this communication that makes it sound like your child should not have to deal with a child who struggles in school, and it isn’t your place to ask about the particulars of the other children in the classroom. I am not saying that your child should be unsafe or yelled at all day, but there is value in having classrooms with kiddos who have different needs. It sounds like there should be an aide for one of the kiddos. Also, assuming this is a public school in the US, the school is required to provide an education for every child in the least restrictive environment.
Anonymous says
Sorry, but no. School is for learning. Not for being hit and screamed at. If a child is throwing things and screaming, they should be removed from the classroom immediately. The entire class should not be removed so the kid who is doing the screaming and throwing can continue. The least restrictive environment does not mean that one child should be allowed to infringe on the right of 25 other children to receive an appropriate education, which is not happening if they are sitting out in the hallway while he destroys the classroom. If a child screams and throws things in a regular classroom, it is not an appropriate environment for him.
Anonymous says
And before you attack me, I am the mom of a special-needs child. No part of her plan creates any impact on any other child in the class. The other kids don’t even know she has special needs.
Hmmmm says
+1 to all of this.
Hmmm says
To be clear, I’m agreeing with So Anon on this one. Not sure I threaded it correctly.
Anonymous says
OP here. My question was how to approach the convo, not how to get my kid moved, jeez.
I think it’s great to have a diverse group in the classroom. We are in one of the best, most well-funded districts in the state. I got off the phone with the school (principal, assistant principal and guidance) and feel like they are on the ball. Since yesterday they have had 3 meetings, modified the IEP and put in for additional building subs so they can have more support staff to move into situations like this when they arise. They also said as much as they were legally allowed to but very much inferred they requested a full time para for the child. In the interim the guidance counselor and the schools socio-emotional coach are switching off being in the classroom.
I am a longtime parent volunteer and have had 2 other kids go through the school. I’ve never before had to have a meeting like this so wasn’t sure how to make sure I had the right tone, which is concern and collaborative.
Anonymous says
I have stuff-buyers in my family. Here are some suggestions for useful gifts that may check the “toy” box:
– Fun pajama sets & slippers (the obnoxious character kind). “Oh XXX is Kiddo’s fave character!”
– seasonal necessities that are also toys sleds– an awesome Christmas gift, accessories for a swing set, a sand box & toys, etc
– toy storage, such as a bookshelf or toy box
– things that are good filler/ more packages to open: craft/art supplies. Chalk, foam stickers, cardstock, coloring books, play doh, etc.
– fun but necessary items: rain coats/boots (Hartley used to have a unicorn color changing one. It was my 2year old’s best day ever when she got that, plus matching boots and an umbrella), hats/mittens/snow gear, lunch boxes& water bottles with their favorite characters on them, etc.
The good part about all of these suggestions is you can photograph your kid using/wearing them. Get a winter coat and you’ll see it on her all winter long.
I agree with others that if you need diapers, either make it a separate request (we cannot afford diapers, can you help us out?) or see local resources. Grandparent– especially those that love to give gifts– won’t wrap up diapers for a 1 year old to open on Christmas morning.
Isabella says
Ideas for Thanksgiving weekend staying with my inlaws? I never enjoyed it much, but since LB arrived we haven’t gotten along at all. It’s in the suburbs, not baby-safed at all, and the only entertainment is constant screentime. Sometimes I can take care of errands during a visit, because they are right by the mall, but Black Friday makes that unappealing. Help me plan how to cope?
Anonymous says
Lots of walks/trip to the playground. Consider staying in a hotel. Plan a date night with your husband so they can babysit (after the baby is sleeping) while you’re there. And maybe schedule a day off work for yourself the following Monday when your child will be in daycare so you can recharge and have something to look forward to. It also helped me to reframe these trips as something I was doing for my husband and for his father and so that my son could know his grandfather, not for fun.
Anon says
Stay in a nearby hotel and plan some baby-friendly outings (playground, Bass Pro shop where the big fishtank can be a good 30 minutes of entertainment, etc).
SC says
How old is your baby? I’d plan plenty of outdoor time–a walk down the block, a park with a playground, another walk to see holiday lights. And by all means, bring some small toys for the baby to play with.
Anon says
Definitely stay in a hotel. Then you can escape to the hotel when baby needs to nap (or “needs to nap”) and have some downtime with a book.
Anon says
Make plans! What city are they in? Gymboree, children’s museums, parks, nature preserves, whatever is around – go for it as much as possible! There is NOTHING worse than spending precious time off sitting around on the couch with family members you don’t enjoy. Invite them to join you for active, fun, child-friendly things instead.
Isabella says
Portland OR, if anyone has specific ideas!
Clementine says
OH MAN. This is a great location!
I would start with the Japanese Garden (because I want to go there) and ZooLights at the Zoo.
Anon says
Portland is a beautiful, kid-friendly city … not the dystopian Antifa wasteland it’s made out to be. Get outside and enjoy it – unlikely to be very cold. And if it is … go sledding on Mt. Hood! Oregon Zoo is amazing. Can you get to the coast for a day trip – 1.5 hrs away? Aquarium is great, Tillamook Cheese Factory, lots of fun little things to do in Seaside. OMSI. Powells Books. Oh man, now I wish I was going to Portland with my kids …
Anon says
The zoo is great. We went pre-kid but really enjoyed it even as childless adults.
Anonymous says
Sheesh, my FIL lived in a small town in Mississippi. His house was littered with broken things he forgot to clean up (e.g. glass) and even a few ancient guns. It definitely could be worse!
Anon says
All the more reason to follow the advice and get out of the house :)
Isabella says
Unfortunately this is the compromise plan, so I really can’t push for staying in a hotel. Finding playgrounds and fish tanks are exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to hear about though!
Anon says
Will your family have a private bedroom in their house? If so, treat that as your hotel and retreat there whenever you need a break from in-laws, using baby as an excuse if necessary.
If not, that’s an extremely valid reason to get a hotel and I wouldn’t care how much it offended them. With a baby, you need your own space.
anonM says
Can you bring and leave a set of toys at their house? Can you bring a baby gate and semi-baby-proof one area? Things at my ILs got much easier when I was exhausted and finally made a comment about how hard it was in a non-baby-proofed place. Since then they bring out a set of toys every time, made a point to say they won’t be upset if kids touch anything at their level, etc. Sometimes grandparents forget what it is like with a little who wants to touch everything. “IL, I’m thinking ahead to Thanksgiving weekend, and want to make sure I have some things in place so I get a chance to catch up with everyone and keep LB safe too. Would you be open to brainstorming a way to set up a babyproofed area for LO?”
Isabella says
DH is in charge of that, and he seems to be taking it seriously. Yay for dad’s stepping up, but I honestly don’t think it’s possible to get through to ILs about that. Maybe it’ll work out better than I hope!
Spirograph says
Get out of the house. I know family dynamics around where people stay for holidays can be touchy, but holidays have gotten so. much. better since we adopted a “thanks, we’ll find a hotel/airbnb nearby!” attitude. My husband also instituted a new tradition of going to a local minor league game on Black Friday (we buy tickets for any extended family who wants to join us), and we know all the playgrounds in the neighborhood and kid-friendly museums, zoo, and short hikes within a 30 min radius. We invite everyone to everything and usually have some takers, and plan to be home with the family for dinner every night, but bring cards or a puzzle for hanging-out-in-the-house time so there’s something to do other than watch football.
Anonymous says
Growing up my grandparents had a tradition of taking everyone who was staying at their house to the art museum on Black Friday.
Anon says
That sounds like the best, most positive way to handle things. Everyone gets invited and has the choice to come, but you’re not stuck at home watching TV endlessly – and yet there’s still a family dinner/something at home for those who may be less mobile for the day outings. Win-win.
Anonymous says
Omg, my comment that wouldn’t post all morning has now posted 3x. Jeez. Sorry!!
Anonymous says
Hey all,
I am going through a very rough patch at work and, while I want to stick it out, probably need to have an exit strategy. In the meantime…anybody have good stories of getting fired and coming out way better on the other side? Or using the excuse to take some time off and really figure out next steps?
Anonymous says
I was laid off while 6months pregnant with my second. I was gutted.
Turns out it was one of the best things that could have happened. I used my severance $$ to find an extended maternity leave where I also started a consulting practice. That was almost 7 years ago. I work about 30% the hours, make about 75% my previous pay, and life is just better. My job is super flexible so I can be involved with kid stuff, and can take on other stuff to allow DH to be more involved in kid stuff too.
I have tons of industry contacts and know I could go back to full time if needed- I’ve even been asked to come on full time by clients in the past (no thanks!!).
We actually had a 3rd child because our life could handle it; I am pretty sure if I stayed in my Big Corporate Job we would have stayed with two. And fwiw our third is an amazing kid.
anon says
I was laid off unexpectedly from a job. The company felt like a shark tank, full of back stabbers and gossipy people eager to throw each other under the bus. I took the layoff personally and it was a really difficult, lonely time. I found another decent job within three months. Now, several years later, the company that laid me off has gone through a lot of turmoil and had to cut 20 percent of its workforce. Many of my former colleagues are posting about losing their jobs. It all came full circle. I’m really grateful I was let go years ago and didn’t endure a toxic workplace all this time only to be laid off anyway. I feel like I ended up in a safer, healthier place. And I have a job where I am respected and am given more responsibility, with nice co-workers and a flexible schedule.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
+1 – I was pushed out of a similar company in my late 20s. I was gutted and questioning my professional worth. Fast forward to a few years later, the company was bought out by another, and a lot of the departments were gutted.
I had already started the job search process, and consequently found a great job within a month; my severance covered most of the gap time. I stayed at the new job company for ~5 years, and only left because we moved.
Anon says
I graduated from law school in 2010, didn’t have a job lined up and eventually found a job at a very small, weird firm where associates were given way too much responsibility and no supervision (in hindsight it was probably some form of malpractice? We had no idea what we were doing). It was also really churn and burn, they basically hired people, gave us six months to develop our own book of business (for anyone who doesn’t know, this is a crazy expectation for new law grads) and then fired us when we hadn’t done that. So six months in I got fired. It was devastating and financially really stressful (my husband was in grad school with a $30k stipend and we were living in the Bay Area, which was very expensive even back then) but six months later, against all odds, I ended up getting a job in Big Law. I didn’t stay in Big Law forever but it was a great way to launch my career, helped us a lot financially and I actually really enjoyed working there when I was a childless 20-something.
Boston Legal Eagle says
I was laid off from a tiny company when I was on maternity leave with my first. To tell you I was anxious before and after my kid’s birth would be an understatement. My leave was pretty rough, and I don’t know how much was related to being a new parent, and how was much was stress about working. I then found a new position, and have been here ever since, and been promoted. My team here is great and while I have the usual work and coworker stresses, the layoff was one of the best things to have happened to my career. It doesn’t seem like it in the moment, but over time, I hope it will be good for you.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
DS #2 will be 2 next month. He has EI for general development support – a lovely worker comes 2x and month and plays games to encourage him to communicate/talk, follow directions, etc.
He didn’t qualify for OT, PT (we had gotten him in private before the EI eval for his late walking – he was walking after 2-3 appointments/at 19 months), or speech therapy at his eval but qualified by 1 point for this general developmental support. While he’s nowhere near the ~50 words for his age, he does have words, uses gestures, is learning words, and has 1-2 phrases.
Question for current/former EI parents: I’m just wondering…what are we waiting for? I’m thinking he’s a little delayed but nothing major, making progress, glad EI is here to monitor, but not sure what to look for in terms of outcomes.
Anonymous says
I’m in Texas: it may be different in your state. I had an EI case manager who would check in with me quarterly. She kind of explained the goals to me and would say “does that sound right to you/do you agree?” So you have an email from his initial evaluation? You should be able to contact whomever started that evaluation and ask for a check in. If you’re asking for permission to discontinue receiving services: I think that’s fine. EI made it clear to me that I could reopen a case/request an evaluation at any time. Your almost 2 year old is on track with my premature twins who are now 21 months. One had PT for walking which helped tremendously. They’re both in preschool now and doing fine. They don’t hit milestones at the early stages but they do consistently hit them and that’s good enough for me and their ped. YMMV obviously.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
Super helpful! I’m in TX, too. It seems that EI is run by the counties with a little variation. We did have a session with a Case Manager where the goals were spelled out – truthfully I think we’ve “hit” all of those goals, so I’d be curious what’s next. It’s only been a few months (sessions started in September), so I’ll probably see how DS is doing after the holidays and assess.
DS is in preschool as well. He’s the youngest in his class at 22 months (most are 2.5-3) and has absorbed a lot since moving to this class in Sept. While he wasn’t a preemie, he was low birth weight/no complications, and I recently learned that after a colleague just had her low birth weight baby, her ped actually uses preemie standards for the baby; which makes a ton of sense. I wish our (now former) ped had done that.
Anonymous says
I think you’re doing a the right things. Once my son was walking I politely asked the PT (whom I adore) what the next goals were. She seemed surprised but said the end goal was walking so we could space out appointments and taper off if I was comfortable. I actually didn’t involve the case manager at all, now that I’ve suggested that, sorry. FWIW re milestones: my twins pretty much caught up by 18 months. My pediatrician measures them as premature until age 2. Even then, my PT twin failed almost all his gross motor at 4 months and ped was like “let’s wait.” I don’t regret waiting, but my mom instinct was right: he needed some encouragement.
Anon says
Not EI, but we did occupational therapy for my 4 year old for what we felt was overall developmental lag. It was weird ending it; it felt like the OT kept finding new issues to work on whenever we seemed satisfied that one issue was resolved or improving, and started to feel a little scam-y to us, and some of the thing. So eventually we just called it and said yeah we think we’re done here. Of course, we were paying $500+ per session. If it were free or heavily subsidized we probably would have continued it because my kid enjoyed it so much. It’s been almost a year and my kid still talks about how much she misses her “play doctor” and how fun it was. It was her favorite “activity” ever, ha.
Anonymous says
holy carp! we’ve been going to OT for years and often pay out of pocket because the best ones don’t take our insurance; most are $60-$100 per session. is that $500 a typo?!?!
Anon says
Nope. $500 for one hour. There is only one pediatric OT in our city and we are ~70 miles from the nearest big city, so I’m guessing lack of competition is a factor. But that’s not an out of pocket rate – that’s the insurance rate. Insurance should cover it once it eventually kicks in, we just have a plan with an insanely high deductible ($13k for a family plan) so even with biweekly OT we didn’t meet the deductible. I did ask about paying out of pocket, but I was told we could only get that rate if we were uinsured and attested to that under penalty of perjury, which I couldn’t do. Health insurance in this country is such a mess. :(
Anon says
In VA we get an annual assessment and you can ‘graduate’ if you’ve caught up (and/or if you want to). You can also downgrade your EI programming to just ‘case management,’ which is a quarterly check-in with your coordinator where you can ask to re-up your interventions if you decide you want to. Or you can ask to have the 2x/month visit downgraded to 1x/month just for slight monitoring if you want something.
FWIW none of my kids met the 50 words at 2 years milestone and they all met the 3 year old milestone by 2.5.
But, if you’re looking for permission from another EI parent to stop – you can stop.
Anonymous says
My state (Ohio) has PreK learning guidelines — it looks like Texas does also but wordier so I’ll link OH too.
https://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Early-Learning/Early-Learning-Family-Resources/Your-Child%E2%80%99s-Development-Birth-to-Age-5
https://tea.texas.gov/academics/early-childhood-education/texas-prekindergarten-guidelines
If he didn’t qualify for speech but they’re giving him EI for social communication delays then they’re concerned about autism (or NVLD or SCD). If you don’t see it you can stop. But keep an eye on it over the next few years – I didn’t believe my son was autistic until he was fully conversational (age 4.5) when I realized that all he thought about was ceiling fans.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
This is helpful, too. Thank you. I’m no expert but I’m not seeing Autism at this point – I know it manifests in a variety of ways, so who knows. The focus of his EI was to focus on 1) Joint attention and 2) Imitate actions and sounds, both of which he’s doing (sometimes better than others, of course)
But, the initial assessment they pronounced him with poor eye contact, despite me pushing back when, in fact, he has excellent eye contact. The specialist working with him, on her own, has said that he has excellent eye contact as well, so I think he could have just been “off” the day of assessment.