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Third Love’s Form Seamless Nursing Bra is $45 and available in sizes XS–3X.
Anon says
For a less expensive nursing bra option than this featured pick, I liked the Hofish “deep v” nursing bras from the online retailer that starts with A. I got a 3 pack for about $20, which was a good financial choice for me given that I had no clue how my sizing would ultimately shake out (they also came with clasp extenders to offer a wider range of band sizes, which were so helpful).
Anonymous says
+1, I lived in these for several months post partum (I got a different brand on Amazon, but there are several that are clearly dupes of the Kindred Bravely.
Anon says
Thank you!! I am 13 month pp and still nursing, and my bras are all stretched out and hideous. I’ve been trying to figure out where to get more without spending a ton
anon says
I’m 11 months pp and still live in the Hofish bras. I don’t think I’ll ever go back to underwire.
Anon says
PSA that there’s a Bluey show touring the US starting in November! https://events.bluey.tv/tour-dates/
Hunt Gather Parent says
Paging Anonymous from yesterday regarding Hunt Gather Parent.
I disliked the story (the idea of seeking wisdom from “others”, the author’s written voice etc) but really resonated with the parenting philosophy. It felt like a lot of ideas I’ve had about parenting in a more thorough and well explained way. I told my husband that I think he’d hate the book but like the philosophy- I wish I could find a summary online.
I actually read How Not To Hate Your Husband and it was the opposite experience- I really enjoyed the story but I only read it a few weeks ago and already can’t remember any of the suggestions.
Have you read Bringing Up Bebe? I feel like that’s a similar book to both that I enjoyed for both the story and the suggestions.
What does the hive think?
Cb says
I haven’t read it, but had a love/hate relationship with How Not to Hate Your Husband. Her husband WAS terrible.
I am reading KJ Dell’Antonia’s How to Be a Happier Parent and really loving it for this approaching school age stage. Nothing revolutionary, but just really nice?
OP says
Oh my goodness! He was so terrible! That was my biggest take away from the book- that my husband is wonderful in comparison and I should cut him some slack when he’s clearly actively trying to be an equal parent.
I’ll add that one to the list!
Anon says
I liked how funny the author was of How Not to Hate Your Husband, and it was nice to feel less alone in the struggle of marriage and kids, but I wasn’t very convinced by the end that she had really resolved the issues in her marriage, or that her techniques would work for me either. There was a lot more focus on how terrible and hard it was, and the “it got better” stage wasn’t really given much time in the spotlight.
Anon says
I thought bringing up Bebe was a fun read but nothing too practical to apply to my life here in the US. I think there were some things that may be applicable but clearly I forgot them all.
I read it before kid 1 and I really thought newborns should only be eating four times a day LOL.
Anonymous says
Wait, is there such a thing as a newborn that doesn’t eat 24 hours a day?
Boston Legal Eagle says
I’ve only read Bringing up Bebe of the books mentioned but I think we did try to implement some of those “techniques” or at least the philosophy, like le pause and giving the baby a minute to cry. My husband liked the philosophy but didn’t like that the book focused almost entirely on the mom’s perspective (but it’s written by her, and most of the readers are probably moms). Is Hunt Gather about letting older kids be more independent? I really like that in theory but I find it hard to implement because of how our society is set up with everyone scheduled all of the time. If I let my kids roam free, who will they roam with?! I felt that way with Bringing up Bebe too – the culture in France was more accommodating to that than here in the U.S. so it’s harder here.
Anon says
Same.
OP says
HGP has a whole section about “autonomy vs independence”. Basically it’s argument is that autonomous kids are highly integrated into the family and have actual responsibilities to the family, but the freedom to act on those responsibilities how they wish. Vs independence where kids have no responsibilities + freedom.
The lack of Dad thing is even worse in HGB. I think the author mentioned her husband once in the whole book? It was pretty striking and made me wonder where he was. Another major issue with the book (that didn’t bother me in Bebe).
Anonymous says
In HGP didn’t the mom travel around alone with her daughter interviewing parents all over the world?
Aunt Jamesina says
Yes, the lack of men (and boys!) in most of the book was frustrating.
Anonymous says
Presumably the boys were all out with the men hunting and working the fields while the women and girls fetched water and tended the house and kitchen garden?
GCA says
Yeah, this is my problem with the premise of HGP and shows like ‘Old Enough’ (that’s the one where Japanese preschoolers go out and run errands on their own). In a society or culture that is actually set up to have eyes on and care for every kid, in a dense city or in a tight-knit community, the methods and practices they describe work well to foster children’s independence step by step. Plus none of these societies are without problems of their own, like people being very much up in each other’s business.
But (if you read Bowling Alone!) the suburban upper-middle-class US has evolved away from that for many reasons. It takes a lot of participation, and not a little privilege, to reverse that shift. It’s not impossible though: the middle schoolers in my small city don’t get school buses, but the public school gives them transit passes and they all take public transit and walk together in the morning and there’s safety in numbers.
Anonymous says
The Bowling Alone reference takes me back to my grad school days. Sigh.
GCA says
I should say I think HGP had some useful reframing of upper-middle-class American norms though. DH hasn’t read it but I think he would be tickled – when you grow up in a family of six kids (he was #3), parents do not *have* time or resources to helicopter and hover, kids cook meals and do chores, and older kids take care of younger ones. Well, he’d be amused if he could get through the problematic othering/ exoticization issue.
EDAnon says
I agree. I liked the book, but definitely understand and agree with some of the criticisms. It did help in that we have definitely (as a family) embraced the rejection of some norms and being more reflective about what really matters and what is a norm of our culture but not really “core” to raising a child who will be an awesome adult.
Aunt Jamesina says
I think about Bowling Alone ALL THE TIME. I feel like an updated version needs to be published.
Aunt Jamesina says
I think about Bowling Alone ALL THE TIME. They need to publish an updated version
Anonymous says
There is a 20th anniversary edition!
Aunt Jamesina says
Good to know! I’ll have to read it.
Anonymous says
My problem with teaching independence is that American society is set up to discourage, and sometimes to punish, this. I once overheard two couples discuss whether they should report my “unattended” 10-year-old to security at Target when I sent her back to the car to get something she’d forgotten *while I was watching from the sidewalk.* In my state you risk having your children removed from the home if you let them walk to the park or stay home alone before age 12. There’s no minimum age specified in statute, so it’s entirely up to the discretion of CPS and really the nosy neighbors who report you. It’s frightening.
Realist says
There is a minimum age specified by statute to be home alone in many states, so this is definitely something to know for your own state. I think most also make reference to the maturity and capability of the child so the age is more of a minimum than a safe harbor.
Anon says
My son was riding his bike 1-2 blocks ahead of me in our quiet suburban neighborhood while I followed with the stroller… three separate cars stopped and asked him where his mother was/waited until I came into view again (a min later). He is 6, but riding a bike with some degree of independence is totally age appropriate. And if the cars were really concerned they could have silently watched a moment and there I was!
anonM says
YES this. Seriously. And, this is also a privilege thing — POC are way more likely to get CPS called on them for this stuff, too. (Why does it seem like the folks who call security on kids doing age-appropriate things are the same who will gripe about kids being so dependent and weak?*rolls eyes*)
EDAnon says
I left my kids in the car for about 90 seconds and was certain someone was going to report me. It was a horrible feeling.
Anonymous says
I liked Bringing Up Bebe but more from a “interesting how other cultures do things!” perspective than advice I could apply to my own parenting style.
Emma says
I liked French Kids Eat Everything, especially for how they continued to apply certain things (but not all) once the family returns to Canada. Bringing up bebe is an interesting read, but very rooted in how French society is structured – so interesting from a societal point of view more than an individual parenting choice point of view. It’s also firmly rooted in a certain subset of Parisian society and not necessarily reflective of the whole of France.
anon says
Yeah I loved reading Bringing Up Bebe (I read it before I had kids). I found it to be highly entertaining. But I wasn’t able to implement her ideas very well once I became a parent. It’s fun to have an escapism parenting read that makes it seem like other cultures know all the secrets to life, but I want ideas that work well in my American setting. Also, there are some things that are waaaay down on my list of turning into a battle, and one of them is snacks. Let the little kids have all the snacks unless there is some health issue going on. I also wondered if the author drew some incorrect assumptions about French culture, and the idea that French babies are sleeping well by three months may have just been a fantasy that an insecure expat/new mom feels to be true, but doesn’t actually match up with reality.
Anonymous says
French parents yell and hit in a way rich white American parents don’t.
Emma says
As a French person, this is a pretty gross generalization. But in response to the comment above, yeah, not all French babies sleep through the night at three months at all – plenty of my French friends had sleep issues. I actually found the food stuff generally more accurate than the sleep stuff. And the food thing is both about how the French eat generally and the fact that all kids eat at the cafeteria from a pretty early age, and everyone eats the same meal (minus minor accommodations) and learn to eat what they are served, generally (and as a French kid I complained a lot about some of the vegetables and would have preferred pizza for sure, but I am grateful for the habits it gave me).
Anon says
I’m really skeptical that the cafeteria thing cures pickiness. My kid has been in daycare since before a year old being served three meals a day there five days a week. She either doesn’t eat or only eats the parts of the meal that appeal to her (all the bread, sometimes the dairy or the fruit, basically never the veggies or the meat). Unless a child is being ordered to clean their plate (which causes a host of other eating-related issues), simply being served the same food as other kids is not going to overcome innate pickiness.
Anon says
And while I agree that saying the French “yell and hit” is a generalization, spanking is def way way way more common in France than it is in America. There’s published data about it. Close to 90% of parents in France spank but only 35% in the US and in this country spanking very closely tracks with income and education. It’s practically unheard of in educated, affluent circles in the US.
Emma says
We weren’t forced to finish our plates, but we were supposed to try at least one bite of everything, which is consistent with what Druckerman describes in the book. I also think the three meals a day and one afternoon snack is strongly ingrained in France – I wasn’t going to skip lunch entirely because there would be no other food until gouter (afternoon snack) at 4:30. I’ve lived in the US and Canada for 12 years now and still get really thrown by people getting a burger and fries at 3pm or whatever, that habit really stayed with me.
Anonymous says
Who is eating burgers and fries at 3:00 in the afternoon? That is not any kind of norm with which I am familiar, except after a kids’ swim or gymnastics meet session that ran through lunch.
Anon says
Yeah most American families I know are pretty consistent about no snacking between meals and scheduled snack times. I’m not saying I’ve never taken my kid for a 3 pm ice cream but it’s not a regular occurrence by any means, certainly not on weekdays when she’s in school from 9-5. And I think I’ve almost literally never eaten an actual meal like a burger at 3 pm.
There are definitely scheduled meals with no food in between at our daycare, but it’s never prevented my kid from skipping a meal she really hates. I guess some kids have a higher tolerance than others for going without food when they don’t like what’s served.
AwayEmily says
I just got Hunt Gather on my Kindle yesterday after the discussion on here — I will report back!
I remember reading Bringing Up Bebe pre-kids and feeling very confident that I would never cook separate meals for the kids, who would therefore become adventurous eaters with a wide palate. But, alas, the nuggets came for me in the end. Quelle horreur!
Anonymous says
Just snorted. Thanks for the genuine LOL!
Anon says
Lol. I’m a vegetarian granola mom who gets all of her produce from an organic csa, I have my own backyard chicken flock, dairy comes from a local farm, I cook delicious (to me, not my kids) from scratch meals and have served like every vegetable to my kids prepared in multiple ways, etc, and yet here I am serving up nuggets. The heart wants what it wants.
Pogo says
The nuggets come for us all, in the end.
Boston Legal Eagle says
“The nuggets come for us all, in the end.” – love this! And yeah, we’re all in on nuggets and PB&J here too.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
This is so true. My older son has a regular rotation of home-cooked food but would HAPPILY eat nuggets and/or PB&J every day…apparently both of those options are superior to whatever veggie-forward pasta bake I made after everyone was in bed last night. Sigh. :)
FWIW – we had home-cooked meals most nights growing up and I remember only wanting fast food fried chicken dinners (as seen on TV) and/or kid cuisine (y tho…oh right, again TV), and I grew up ultimately wanting and craving my Mom’s home-cooked food.
Anon says
Bringing Up Bebe is very smug about what French kids eat, but I don’t think it’s really accurate. My best friend from high school has lived in France for 15 years now. She’s not a mom but has a lot of friends with kids and her partner has young nieces and nephews and she says there are plenty of picky kids there too just like the US.
Anonymous says
I also swore I would never serve nuggets, but that went out the window with the first daycare quarantine. And that’s when I found out that my kid hates nuggets. Woe.
Anon says
My picky kid hates chicken nuggets too. But I actually really like the ones we bought (Earth’s Best brand from Target) so now I buy them for my own lunches, ha!
Anonymous says
Mine won’t eat nuggets but will eat the “chicken tenders” from the same brand that are not actual pieces of chicken but just larger nuggets.
HGP says
Oh I only read the first half before it was returned to the library but I really loved parts of Hunt, Gather, Parent. I did have a big groan because no offense to parents of one child, but she had just one child. It’s a lot easier to manage conflict in the home for example with one child. Or a fair number of strategies felt like they worked for her because she could just focus on her daughter. I sometimes just can’t do what it was asking of me.
I loved the first part on incorporating kids into chores around the house. I was already trying to do that but am trying to do that with more intentionality now and I think it’s actually working. This was one of the only parenting books I’ve read where I actually tried to implement ideas (albeit with the huge caveat that she was coming at this as a parent of an only child and it looks a lot different at my house).
Cb says
That’s really interesting. I have an only and I feel so much of the parenting advice doesn’t really apply (I get to skip whole chapters in books) because there is only 1 kid so the conflict/competing demands aren’t super relevant. And we are less busy.
True says
Ha, that’s true, I guess there wasn’t much for her to manage there. But I still had to read a chapter about how she was struggling with it? I felt dismissive of a lot of her struggles because having a single kid you can travel with (and a flexible job) and presumably a husband at home (?) just didn’t put her in the same league as what we manage day to day, so I’m not sure why she was my source of advice.
I also thought she was “othering” a lot – not sure best way to explain this. But making parenting into an exotic thing of different cultures with her as observer was weird. Basically, didn’t really LIKE the author, but always interested in learning.
Anonymous says
The whole thing struck me as a self-indulgent pop social science/journalism mashup that attempted to combine participant observation with qualitative interviews and journalistic interviews. Her Ph.D. is in chemistry, not the social sciences, so no wonder it fell flat.
Pogo says
oh good, the 4yo put the garbage out today, so I do at least have him doing some chores.
EDAnon says
I also implemented the kids helping with chores. I actually like it – I like my kids and doing chores with them is more fun than doing them alone. We also DO NOT have super high standards and do have cleaners.
They have started doing some of them without being asked, which is awesome (and they’re 5 and 3).
anonM says
HGP – I’m halfway through and liking it overall. I agree the “othering” is problematic (ex- women making no noise during childbirth?), and it is clearly mom-focused. But, I appreciate that it provides some research/background for why moms in the US get some of the advice we do. DH also has been liking it. We’ve so far been focused on having the kids help more with tasks, and giving me a framework for why it will be worthwhile to let them help even when it is messy/annoying/takes longer. We are shifting away from cleaning up after the kids go to bed — still doing some tidying, but loading the dishwasher with them, etc. I’m reading the section on anger, and noticing how much I yell, even though I don’t want to parent like that. I’m not sure yet if her strategies are helping because I’m not through that part. And, it reinforced for us that we don’t want to rush to sign the kids up for too many kid-centric activities.
DLC says
This is like having a Cmom’s book club! I kinda of love the idea.
I did read Hunt, Gather, Parent and while I thought the ideas good in theory, I was struck by how most of the children she wrote about were girls, and most of the parents she researched (with I think one exception) were mothers. She didn’t address how deeply patriarchal the communities that she embedded herself in were. I mean clearly that’s a larger issue and not one that she was focused on in her book, but I do think that those gender roles have a lot to do with the pressures we put on ourselves as mothers, and I did notice that I expect a lot more independence from my daughter than from my son. Maybe it’s because she’s older by five years, but I feel like she was definitely doing more things on her own at a younger age than my son is doing.
One idea I liked in the book, though, is the idea of “less”. In particularly to speak less to our kids. I think we are told that we need to be constantly talking to our children for reasons of language development, so I was really interested in the thought that really we should talk to them less. I don’t know if it really works, but it did make me feel calmer to not feel like I had to have a stream of words coming out of my mouth all the time.
Another book that I read recently that I really liked is What do You Say? How to Talk with Kid to Build Motivation, Stress Tolerance, and a Happy Home by William Stixrund and Ned Johnson. Two things that I found really helpful is that 1) it focusses on older kids (elementary school to high school) and the unique challenge of parenting kids to be less reliant on you, and 2) they gave you actual scripts to use with kids. A lot of parenting books, I find feel very theoretical – I like the ideas they present, but the books don’t really tell you how to communicate these ideas to your kids. A lot of the scripts they give are based in this idea of “I love you, but you need to figure this out yourself. Here are some tools to do that…”
Anonymous says
Oooh thank you! Just placed a hold for this book at the library.
Boston Legal Eagle says
That’s interesting – so just the women did all the childcare and housework in these societies, there were just more of them and the kids (girls) helped to spread it out? I feel like we talked about this when we talked about living on a commune. That’s really not my ideal. Is there any society where parents (hetero couples anyway) are truly equal? Maybe the Scandinavian countries? I mean, my own household feels like it is, and I’m hoping my boys model this in the future, but you’re right, the patriarchal structures are so ingrained.
Anon says
Emily Oster’s newsletter this week was on the mom penalty and it was interesting to see it in Sweden as well as everywhere else. She noted that they are strong on gender equality and yet it happens there too. (I think you can find her newsletter for free if you google – actually of interest to many on this board!)
Anonymous says
Sometimes I think a traditional society might actually be more equitable. Men do their tasks and women do their tasks and spend about equal time on them. In our society, women are expected to do at least twice as much as men.
Amy says
Yes indeed. It’s lovely to have the option to have a career. I guess. But now that my kids are both in school, if I had 8 hours per day to clean the house and cook our dinners and do NOTHING ELSE, that sounds absolutely heavenly. I do all that and work full time now…?
Anon says
I think this division of workload would be a great idea if things like childcare and housework were valued equally. I find that in today’s world, even if the workload is equitable, the power dynamic is not equitable because the things that traditionally fall in a woman’s plate are not seen as something that can actively grow wealth.
Anonymous says
I always thought that Ma and Pa Ingalls had a very equal marriage. They made big decisions together (e.g., settling down where there was a school for the benefit of the girls even though Pa wanted to keep going west), took on equal shares of the physical work, and were both great at problem-solving.
Anon says
I think the talking non stop for language development is only for infants and maybe young toddlers. I’ve never heard anyone suggest you need to talk to a 6 year old nonstop so they learn words. In fact you normally can’t get a word in edgewise when a 6 year old is around.
EDAnon says
I definitely can’t!
DLC says
I do feel like after young toddlers, a lot of current parenting advice (Janet Lansbury, for one) encourages constantly explaining things to children, trying to reason, or assert authority. HGP suggests that if we lead more my example and teach through actions, and say less to the children, the less they can push ba k and argue with us.
Anon says
Yeah, but that’s different than them needing to hear a constant stream of words for language development. My 4 year old and I often sit in companionable silence and I don’t think that violates any popular parenting advice (not that I would really care if it did, I think Janet Lansbury is BS most of the time).
GCA says
My now 7 year old talks to me nonstop, I think his language development is all set. In fact he often teaches me new words. Mostly animal-behavior terms acquired from Wild Kratts.
Anon says
I agree! I’m loving our spontaneous book club!!
Ooh, adding this one to my to read pile too. Thank you!!
Anon says
We are taking some beach trips this summer with a young baby. Any recommendations for keeping cool and shady, or other tips?
Cb says
We have a pop up tent (not the one with tent poles, those are a pain!) and it works really well for the beach. Just weigh it down. Ours flipped with a baby inside.
Anon says
Swim shirt/pants for the baby. The less skin exposed the less chance of a burn
Anon says
For naps on the beach: walk down beach with baby in baby carrier, then carefully transfer to shady spot/under umbrella.
Anonymous says
When we went with our 2 month old, I used this stuff to make his normal sleepers and gauze blankets more UV blocking – https://store.sunguarduv.com/ It was probably overkill but easy and cheap.
He ended up only being at the beach for short periods of time, and there were plenty of adults that wanted to hold him under an umbrella, so we didn’t get any other special gear. He did have a sun hat (iPlay) that we used.
Anon says
I just asked my pediatrician yesterday when I could put sunblock on my baby and he said that the advice to not use sunscreen until 6 months was outdated. May be worth checking into.
Anon says
Yeah, my ped said the advice is really to keep children out of the sun for 6 months, which obviates the need for sunscreen. If you’re going to a beach where getting sun is unavoidable, the risk of sunscreen is outweighed by the risk of sun damage.
Clementine says
Sportbrella XL is my go to.
Anon says
Long sleeve rash guard top, and a good sunhat (we liked iplay at that age). Check your beach to see if there are restrictions on sizes of pop up tents; if there aren’t or you can find one that fits in the dimensions, definitely recommend. If not, a good umbrella (and it might be worth it to you to rent the ones the city or a contractor take down and put up every day with the thick heavy fabric) is key. Definitely bring a sand bucket you can use to rinse the baby off without going in the waves. If kiddo is old enough to be going in the water with you (we started swim class at 4 months, so YMMV, and I wouldn’t take a 4 month old in rough surf but I would a calm bay) I cannot recommend enough a life vest because god forbid you lose your grip. If kiddo will sleep on the beach in the tent or shade, that is awesome; for older kids who are still napping (oh how I miss those days) we did morning session, then lunch and kiddo stayed in for afternoon nap with one parent, then late afternoon on the beach for everyone, kid dinner, to bed, then adult dinner.
HSAL says
PSA for those unaware – Bravado now makes a non-nursing version of the bodysilk bra. Given that I was still wearing the nursing version nearly three years after I stopped nursing, I’m super excited.
Anon says
Do their nursing bras still come with those clips to convert it to a real bra? I’m pretty sure I threw them all out but I think it might have been a thing.
HSAL says
It was a thing when I bought some in 2018, but I got a few more in late 2020 or early 2021 and they no longer came with them.
Mary Moo Cow says
BRB, going to buy some. Thank you for sharing!
Anon says
Talk to me about transitioning out of a crib. Kiddo is 18 months, we are moving when he will be 20 months, and a new baby coming when he’s 24 months. We’d like him out of his crib before baby comes because we don’t want to buy a new crib for the baby. I know moving and new baby are big big transitions, so not sure how to *time* it. He already takes naps on a queen size floor mattress and we are inclined to use a twin size floor bed after the crib. Any thoughts?
I’m also open to strong opinions about just buying a new crib for baby if keeping him in his crib for as long as possible is indeed the best option. (He doesn’t feel like baby stole his crib, he sleeps fine in it currently, it also transitions to a toddler bed). Or perhaps getting a bassinet for baby until they start to roll.
Anon says
We’re having a new baby soon and my older son will be 22 months. We got a second crib. Toddler sleeps great in crib, and we will convert it to a toddler bed. I didn’t see the point in rocking the boat trying to move him to a big bed (nor did I want to deal with training him to stay in bed heavily pregnant/with a newborn), just to save $500.
Anon says
We kept my younger in a bassinet for probably aorund 4 months, by which time my son had acclimated to the baby and then we moved him into a big boy bed and he was psyched. He was a few months older than yours will be so was between 2.5 and 3 at that time, but just as an option unless you want the new baby in the crib right away.
Anonymous says
Get an IKEA crib and preserve your sleep. Or a used crib. People give them away all the time! My son slept in a crib until he was over 3, and then we converted it to a toddler bed he used until he was 5 or 6.
Anon. says
This was my strategy. Both my kids slept/sleep in IKEA cribs. Big brother was 2.5 when the baby was born and stayed in his crib another 6 months and then in the crib converted to toddler bed. Baby didn’t sleep nights in her crib until 4 months, but she napped there. For me, the extra $200 was worth it to not rock the boat.
AwayEmily says
My philosophy is to always keep kids in cribs as long as possible. Both ours (who were not climber-outers) switched at around 3 years.
Anon says
+1 except mine have all climbed out before 2. But I am very jealous of all of you with less climbing oriented children – enjoy the crib! Don’t rock the boat!
Anonymous says
Where did your first sleep as an infant? Our baby slept in the pack n play in our bedroom for the first six months, which would leave the crib free until your older one is 30 months. By that point a floor bed will be much more feasible. I wouldn’t invest in a second crib because it will get max a year of use, and much less if you have a climber.
anonM says
We did this too.
OP says
OP here. Thanks for all the thoughts! Sounds like everyone is team crib.
Kid1 has been in a crib since birth. Maybe we will do a bassinet or packnplay in the room for kid2. The cost of the second crib isn’t so much of an issue as the waste involved in buying another mattress that won’t be used for too long. Or maybe I will just buy that second crib. BTW the cost of the IKEA sniglair went up from $79 to $129 everyone!
anon at 9:49 says
Oh, I meant I am team no crib! I just meant that if you want to keep him in the crib longer you can certainly do that without buying another. I had a climber who could not safely remain in a crib past age 2. I would not invest in a second crib because you have no way of knowing whether your older one will be able to stay in it for very long after the baby is born.
Anonymous says
We got a second crib second-hand from a neighbor group (but new mattress) and it was 100% the right call for us. I personally believe in keeping that kid in the crib for as long as you can (until they try to climb out) because it’s safer and you’ll sleep better. Once they’re able to get out, it was all over for us, and that’s the last thing you need w a newborn. Our oldest was in the crib until he was 2.75 and our youngest was in his until 3.25.
Anon says
I would just get a second crib. New baby is a big transition, you don’t need to be making him leave his crib at the same time.
Anon says
I only have one, so take this with a grain of salt, but I’m a big proponent of staying in the crib as long as possible. DD stayed until 2 years, 5-6 months. Transitions are really hard and the bed transition, while not particularly terrible for us (relative to potty training and transitioning to a new nanny, which we all did in that 2-3 year range), it was challenging. DD tested limits – getting out of bed, yelling that she was scared and other things that generally disrupted our sleep, and that’s without having a newborn on top of it.
I’m watching my very close friends/next door neighbors do this right now – just brought home a newborn and have a 26 month old and they are so grateful I low-key convinced them out of moving DD #1 to a bed before bringing home the new baby.
NYCer says
My daughters both wanted out of their cribs right around age 2. We made the switch to regular (not toddler) beds, and it was a non-event in both cases. I know that is not the case with every kid, just throwing it out there in case you decide you want to try the switch now.
Anonymous says
Same here. Ours was climbing out of the crib before age 2, but stayed in bed once we switched her to a twin.
Anon says
We converted the crib to a toddler bed around 2 years 5 months. The transition was super smooth – not sure if that was just luck/personality, or if keeping her sort of in the crib made a difference. We didn’t get a twin bed until 3.5 when she complained about her crib mattress being hard, and by that point she’d been sleeping in beds on vacation for a while so it was also not a hard transition.
Anon says
My kid went from the crib to a twin xml mattress on the floor, with a weird transition period where he climbed out of the crib and slept on the floor and then refused to sleep in the toddler bed version of the crib. You could always test run putting his crib mattress on the floor and see if it’s a disaster, but the floor mattress has worked out great for us.
Anon says
We just took our twins out of cribs at age 4. I’m team buy another crib
Anonymous says
This is us. For all 3 of our kids their ‘big kid bed’ was their 4th birthday present. Had to earn it by proving they could stay in their stay in their cribs (converted to a toddler bed by taking side off) for 2 months prior to birthday.
We moved when oldest was 3 year old. Painted her room the same color as her old room and her crib was the first thing we set up in the new house so she had lots of time to get used to her new room while we moved stuff into the rest of the house.
A second crib is like $200 at Ikea. Save your sanity and your sleep – buy the second crib.
Anonymous says
I’ll let you know my recent experience and why I’m VERY team buy another crib. My first switched to taking the side off her crib after 3, she was a good sleeper already and a very compliant child. No issue and no night time shenanigans.
We just took the side off of DS crib at almost 3 because he climbed out. It’s been 2 months of him going to bed later and never napping in his crib anymore. He was a champ mapper/sleeper before this. Thankfully he doesn’t wake up in the middle of the night, but he went from 7pm – 7am sleeping to 8:30pm-6:30am with a lot of reminders to stay in his room. Doing this at age 2 would’ve been a disaster
Boston Legal Eagle says
I’ve had a couple of “Yes, and” parenting feelings lately – like, yes, I find it really hard to parent two small kids and know that I would have more free time with just one AND I am glad that I had my second for many many reasons (related: yes I am a happy only child AND I feel like I missed out on some sibling dynamic relationships). Yes I find the toddler stage exhausting and the irrational meltdowns can get really irritating AND I love the sweetness and the way they speak at this age, and know I will miss it when they’re older. I guess this is more of a re-framing for me that helps in the hard times, but I’m prone to black or white thinking where a decision must feel right in all ways and this helps with that. Anyone else feel this way?
Anonymous says
Umm yes literally all the time? You’ve just described the feeling of being human.
Anon says
I feel this so much. We have surprise twins who made kids 3 and 4 for us. They are currently toddlers. They are hilarious, the big kids absolutely love them, and I can’t believe how lucky we are to have four beautiful children who love each other so much, and they are an amazing pack to watch together, AND I miss traveling when it was only 4 people, and this age (9 and 11) for my older kids would have been so, so, so easy without the twins, and I stress almost daily about how we are going to manage logistics for 4 active kids when the twins are older (and even more irrationally, how I’m going to spend time with them evenly if they scatter as grown-ups), and it’s expensive as sh!t having 4 kids. So, whew, yes.
anon says
Sure, that’s my thinking all the time about everything. Life is complicated, and there’s a give and take to nearly everything, some bitter to the sweet, blah blah insert your cliche here. But I guess that’s the difference between a black-and-white thinker and a … IDK, shades of gray thinker.
Anon says
+1
Anon says
Ugh our couple’s counselor would always use that phrasing overtly while talking to us, emphasizing the “AND” instead of a “BUT.” I found it to be so annoying.
Anonymous says
My negotiation seminar professor in law school harped on “Yes, and.” I deploy this strategy somewhat passive-aggressively in negotiations at work.
Anon says
It’s an improv technique but it’s used a lot in counseling and workplace team building exercises. I find it super grating too.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
This really resonated. My 17-month-old is driving me BONKERS – he’s throwing food, screaming, will crawl/climb/cruise but not walk, always wants to be carried. My 4.5 year old sweet but also so sensitive so it spurs meltdowns. Yesterday I didn’t get back from pick up until 6 PM and they were MONSTERS….
…And then within an hour, everyone was fed, bathed, and we were snuggled up in bed reading Pout Pout Fish and giggling.
…And then I just needed to collapse on the bed for 15 minutes (okay MAYBE longer) and mindlessly scroll.
Bedtime says
I caught up late yesterday but enjoyed reading the comments on working hours and childcare hours. Can we do the same thing with kids ages and bedtimes? Maybe even what time you go to bed and wake up, too! My kids used to have a firm 8PM bedtime but with longer days and then getting older, it’s getting stretched out. I need my decompression time in the evening!
I’ll go first: kids are 6 and 4. Bedtime is now 8:30ish from them, 9:30ish for me. I get up at 5 or a little earlier.
Anon says
4 year old twins. Their bedtime is 6:45/7. Start brushing teeth by 6:15. Mine is 11 /11:30 bc I’m a night owl but should be 10. Wake up 6:30/7 unless kids or DH wake me up earlier
Anon says
I have one 4 year old who is usually in bed between 8:30 and 9 pm. We can’t let her nap or she won’t settle down until after midnight. Until recently she was a very consistent 7-7 sleeper (no naps) and I’m really struggling to adjust to the later bedtime. Ideal bedtime for me would be 11 pm but it’s more often around midnight. Husband is normally on morning duty. He needs less sleep than I do and is also a morning person.
Cb says
Nearly 5 and we try to be lights out at 730 at the latest (sometimes I’ll stick around later for some cuddles while we listen to an audiobook).
Husband and I try to be showered and be in bed by 930 to read, chat, garden.
AwayEmily says
My kids are 6 and 4, too! And also 3 months.
The 6 and 4yo are asleep by 7:30 and awake at 6:15. The baby goes to bed at around 6:45 and is up at 5:45. I go to bed at 9, read for awhile, and wake up at 5:30. We are an early-to-bed, early-to-rise family. Except my husband, who stays up late to relax (and clean the house), so I tend to take the morning shift.
NYCer says
My three year old goes to sleep around 830 and wakes up between 630 and 730. My second grader usually falls asleep at 745/8 and wakes up around 630.
I go to bed around 10 and wake up at 530ish.
Cornellian says
Kid is 5 and until recently went to bed at like 10 PM. He’s always had low sleep needs but we’re trying to move it earlier because kindergarten starts (at 7:15 AM in August) and we have a baby on the way so in general are trying to structure things a little bit. currently it’s around 9:15, we’re thinking it may need to be back at 8:15 for school. I was historically a single mom and a pretty laissez faire parent about schedules. I also tend to have a hard time sleeping so didn’t mind him getting up a bit later, and he just puts around the house and eats fruit alone if he’s up before us.
Spirograph says
Kids are 5, 7 and 9. We shoot for 8:30 lights out for all 3, and move it up to 8 if they’re acting tired and cranky. The older two each have a kindle, and I let them read until 9 (then I take the kindles away, because they are children after my own heart and will stay up way too late reading if I don’t). They usually wake up between 6:45 and 7:30 on weekdays.
I also need my decompression time in the evening, and usually go to bed around 11 and get up between 6:15 and 7 weekdays depending on whether I’m trying to squeeze in a morning workout, 7:30-8:30 on weekends
Anon says
22 month old sleeps 6:30ish – 6ish. I primarily WFH which allows me to cook dinner at 4:45, eat at 5:30, and get kid in bed by 6:30. I sometimes work again after kid goes to sleep.
I sleep 10pm to when kid wakes up (~8 hours), try to be in bed by 9:30 to read/relax.
Anon says
One child, 19 months. Currently 6 weeks pregnant with our second.
She goes to bed at 8:30pm and wakes up between 7-8am, and I’ll give her about 10-15 minutes of awake time alone in her crib before I go in to start her day.
I go to bed 9:30-10pm, up at 5am.
GCA says
Kids are 7 and almost 4. Bedtime is 8 (in theory)/ 8:30 (in practice), falling asleep is 8-8:30 (kid 1) and 8:30-9 (kid 2 if she has napped).
They get up at 5.30 (kid 1. Or before that. Who knows? I noticed only because I got up at 5:30 and there he was, reading on the sofa) and 6:30 (kid 2, with ~2am potty trip).
I am 37, and my bedtime is 9:30-10 (in theory)/ closer to 10:30 (in practice, depends on how much work I have, how long I decompress with my phone, and how riveting my current book is). I get up at 5 (that’s ambitious)/ between 5:30-6:30 depending on workout schedule.
jz says
3 yo, he sleeps 9-830 and we sleep…12-730.
Mary Moo Cow says
Kids are almost 7 and 4.5. Big Sister is higher sleep needs but we start the bedtime routine around 8. DH and I alternate reading to each child; he usually reads for 15-20 minutes and I am a sucker so I read 20-30 minutes. Little Sister keeps her light on to “read” to herself for 5 minutes and ideally, lights out for both of them is 8:30. It has been stretching to 9, though, as we’ve made friends in the neighborhood and started going on after dinner walks and adventures. It is nearly impossible to get them back from a walk, wind down, bathe/brush teeth before 8:30 pm. Both get up around 6:30; Big Sister is slow to wake up and Little Sister is usually awake on her own.
I have a bedtime alarm set for 9:30, when I am supposed to go to bed to read, but it usually is 9:45 or even 10 when I get there and then I get lost in a book until 10:30 or 11. I am dragging myself out of bed at 6:30. DH has lights out promptly at 10 and gets up at 5 or 5:30.
Anon says
Related! A two part question. I used to always have my kid be asleep around 8, then could do work/have my evening. Now he’s not usually asleep until around 9. How do you guys who also do a “night work” from home schedule like me do it when they start going to sleep later?
Relatedly, he has always wanted me to stick around until he’s actually asleep. I know this is a bad habit that I should have nipped in the bud long ago (eeek). He’s 6. Any hope I can change this dynamic?
Cornellian says
I think kid will probably need an independent hour or so after dinner when you can work (unless you can move your night work to early morning work). Maybe an online class or reading time or whatever. In nice weather I take my laptop out front so he can run around.
Spirograph says
6 is old enough to understand, “There are things I need to get done now, so I’m going to go do those while you’re going to sleep. That way, I’ll be finished with them and able to spend time with you while you’re awake tomorrow”
My kids like to have lullaby music playing for bedtime, maybe try that, too? I use the same playlist every night, I think it’s Pavlovian at this point.
Anonymous says
I still do that a lot with my 7 year old, but he’ll also let us snuggle for 15 min then leave now. Can your kid read yet? Being able to read a little after I go has helped. With my 3.5 we still stay till he’s asleep.
Anonymous says
Can he read? My 6 and 9 year old get into bed around 7:30 and read or do a quiet puzzle (crossword, sodoku, etc) for 45 min-hour.
Anon says
No advice on part 2, but for part 1, you can do a quiet hour or half hour before bedtime as others said. My kid is 4 and doesn’t know how to actually read but still likes “reading” books to herself, so we do potty (for poop) at 7:30, solo quiet time from then until 8:30 and then parent-child reading time and getting tucked in with the idea that lights are out before 9 pm and she’s usually asleep pretty much immediately. It’s hard for me to do focused work during that time, because it’s pretty short and she also calls out for us pretty regularly, but I can get stuff like bill paying and returning emails done. Lately I have even been able to do yard work (after giving her a head’s up that I’m going into the yard for 15 minutes and won’t hear her).
Boston Legal Eagle says
I have a 6 year old and a 3.5 year old. 6 year old is in bed reading (by us) by 7 – he often falls asleep at 7:10/7:15, usually no later than 7:30. 3.5 year old gets in his bed at 7:30 and stays there until the morning – he still naps so probably doesn’t fall asleep until closer to 8 but he doesn’t bother us. They wake up at 5:45/6. If my older one stays up late for some reason, then he will sleep in (until 6:30/7), but that is rare. Our bedtime is in bed and usually asleep by 10 – we start getting ready at 9:30. This gives us a few hours at night to chill/watch TV/read. Up at 5:45am. I know kids will eventually sleep later but so far my kids have been early risers so we make up for it on the back end with earlier bedtimes. This is the same regardless of weekends/summer.
Ohkay says
Kids are 6, 9 and 12. We begin bedtime routine (bath/shower, brushing teeth, PJs, book for youngest two) at 7 pm. Everyone is in bed by 7:30 – the youngest two generally asleep. The 12 year old reads or plays with legos until he falls asleep no later than 8:30. From 7:30 until 9 my husband and I watch TV or workout. We’re in bed by 9. Husband asleep shortly after while I read until 10:30. He’s up at 5:30, kids between 6 and 6:30 and I’m up at 7. My husband and I really need the evening quiet time to wind down from our day and the kids are so used to it they don’t question the routine.
DLC says
Kids are 2.5, 5, and 10. 2.5 and 5 year old are in bed between 8:00pm and 8:30pm. 10 year old 9:00pm.
I am a night owl and am in bed usually around 12:30/1am. I wake up between 6:00-6:30am.
We tell our kids if they are up after we say good night and tuck them in, mom and dad are done and need to do adult things. If they can’t sleep, they need to amuse themselves and/or not bug mom and dad. (which is how the baby ends up watching Succession with us on the couch, or the five year old falls asleep on the floor of the living room.) Unless it’s something like wetting the bed or nightmare or vomiting, we don’t get involved.
HSAL says
6 year old and twins who will be 4 next month. Right now we do 7:30, the twins are normally asleep by 8ish, but it’s usually 8:30 or so for the oldest. We do audiobooks for a half hour and then they have lights if they want to read. The twins seldom nap but if they do they’re up until closer to 9. Their lights come on at 6:45 – the girls are usually already awake by then but the boy twin usually needs dragged out of bed at 7:15. Sometimes they sleep in a bit on the weekends.
With summer I’m thinking I’d pushing it back to 8:00 for bedtime, changing their lights to 7:00, but not waking anyone up. Next year school for the oldest will be an hour earlier so I’m guessing we’ll go back to 7:30 bedtime and she’ll actually fall asleep earlier.
Anon says
Kids are 8 and almost 2. Almost 2 year old goes to bed between 7 – 730 and is up around 615 – 630. 2d grader is in bed by 830, usually asleep by 9. We wake him up by 6:50 to catch the bus during school days; on weekends he gets screentime (no screens during the week) so he’s up by 6:30 on the dot.
Anonymous says
I think this is fascinating!! Currently both my 7 year old and almost 4 year old start getting ready for bed around 7. We spend a pretty long time reading with each of them and also snuggle for a while. Little one is asleep between 7:35-8. Big one … is an exhausted wreck by 7 but usually not asleep till after 8:30 and sometimes reads to himself till 8:45/9. I go to bed between 11-12. Trying to pull that back closer to 10:30-11. I wake up at 7, little kid around 7:15 and big kid often closer to 6:30. When big kid was 3-5 but had stopped napping, he was asleep by 7:10 every day with bedtime starting at like 6:40. I have so much to do after the kids go to bed- I cannot figure out how there are those of you who go to bed at 9:30 (lunches, dishes, exercise, work etc).
Anonymous says
Newly minted 4 y/o- 7:30pm-6:30am (no maps, part time preschool).
Kindergartener- we try for 7:30 and are happy with anything before 8pm. Woken up at 6:45 (sleeps til 7:30 on weekends!).
2nd grader- in bed at 7:45, can read until 8:15-8:30, then lights out. She’s often asleep by 8:30. Allowed to read until 9:30 on weekends. Woken up at 6:45 on weekdays.
Anon says
Kid is almost 5. She typically goes to sleep between 9:30 and 11:30 depending on how the evening goes. She is almost always in bed by 10 or 10:30 but watches her tablet until she falls asleep, and on days where she is extra tired I tuck her in at 9 (e.g., last night after playing outside in the sun for 3 hours in the afternoon and she was out cold by 9:15). With her “normal” bedtime, she wakes up at 8AM; if I put her down early it’s like a roulette wheel between “sun’s up, Mommy” and 8. DH usually goes to bed between 10 and midnight (or later, he is not a consistent sleeper). I am almost always asleep between 11 and midnight. I usually get up between 7 and 8 depending on what my morning looks like; DH gets up at 8 with DD.
Anonymous says
Jealous of that wake time. In my old field the work day started at 9 but in my current field it’s 8 and really I’m expected to be available for meetings before 8.
Anon says
10 month old who doesn’t really nap at daycare so she falls asleep as soon as we get her home and in bed (around 5:30). We wake her up at 6:30 am if we have to, she’ll sometimes wake up on her own between 5:30 and 6:30.
We go to bed around 9:45. I often read in bed for a little bit. My husband wakes up at 5:30 and I wake up at 6:00.
Anon says
1.5 year old. 7:30pm-6:30am. Some days earlier. He naps 2 hrs at full time daycare (8-4:30). I can count on one hand the number of times he’s slept 12 hrs overnight. I am not a morning person and wish he’d sleep until 7:30
Anon. says
2.5 and 5 here. Little sister starts bedtime routine around 7, lights out at 7:30. She’s currently demanding someone sit with her til she falls asleep – it’s a negotiation. We usually have to wake her up at 7 AM for daycare. Still napping roughly 90 minutes per day.
Big brother starts a longer routine at 7, lights out by 8:00. Sometimes he falls right to sleep, sometimes it takes 90 minutes. His light turns green so he can be up for the day/out of his room at 7:00. He’s usually awake before that and looks at books or plays in his room. No nap.
I usually go to bed between 10:30-11:00 and have my alarm set for 6:55 AM unless I’m working out in the morning.
SC says
My son is 7. Bedtime for him is 8:30 – 9ish, and he has to wake up for school at 6:45.
DH and I lay down right after Kiddo goes to bed, but we often stay up reading or watching something until anytime between 10:30 and 12. Our alarm goes off at 6:30, but I often wake up before then. On the other hand, DH gets Kiddo ready for school, and I don’t have to get out of bed until sometime between 7 and 8.
Seafinch says
Four kids:
11 year old
8 year old
6 year old
3 year old
8,6, and 3 share a room and go to bed at 8:30 p.m. 11 year old goes to bed between 9:30-10:00 p.m. unless we forget she is watching TV in the basement which happens every couple of weeks and then she goes to bed whenever we do, between 10:00-11:00. They get up at different times. 8 year is an early bird and usually up around 7. He does his own thing; Lego or TV. 11, 6 and 3 year olds sleep until 8:00-8:30. Sometimes the 3 year old sleeps until 9:00.
My husband gets up around 6:00 to workout, make breakfast etc and either leaves for work by 7:15 or WFH. I get up between 7:30-8:15.
Anon says
DD is turning 4 this summer and, because of the pandemic, will be having her first friend birthday party. We’ve been invited to only a few parties this year and haven’t gone to most because they’ve been indoors and we have a high-risk family member. Many of the other daycare moms are close with each other, but I’m not because I work. Would you accept most birthday invitations, or only ones where you’re friendly with the parents or the kids are really close? I’m getting anxious that no one is going to come to the party, since we’ve said no to a few parties and haven’t done many playdates!
Cornellian says
I don’t think four-year olds hold grudges, so you’ll probably have some people come. I also don’t think four year olds are generally bothered by only having 3 friends at a party, so as long as she’s not alone, it should be fine.
Anonymous says
Clearly you have never met my four-year-old, ha.
Cornellian says
Ha, fair enough. There is one little girl in my son’s class that spent months loudly inviting and uninviting people to her fifth birthday. to be clear, the parents were going to invite everyone anyway, but it was a lot of weird drama.
Anon says
I had the same anxiety when we had an outdoor party for my 4 year old this past spring. We were the first (and so far only) ones in the class to have a whole class party and had only been invited to one party previously. Over half the class accepted (and everyone who RSVPed yes came), including many kids where we’d never had the kid for a playdate and don’t know the parents at all. You really only need 3-4 kids for a party for a 4 year old, and I’m sure you’ll get that many.
NYCer says
If we are available on the day of the party, we accept birthday invitations even if we aren’t friendly with the child’s parents.
Mary Moo Cow says
I always accept. I am always disappointed when kids don’t come to one of my kids’ birthday parties, but I don’t hold a grudge (my oldest notices and cares.)
Try to relax and think of this as a chance to get to know some of the parents. The more you can have done ahead of time and the more people you have on hand to help out (like a close friend or relative), the more you can actually enjoy the party and chat with the parents.
anonM says
If you’re really worried, I’d shoot a text to the parents of your LO’s school besties. I’m not the biggest on birthday parties, in part because my oldest is easily overwhelmed in big groups/new places. But if a parent told me their LO thinks he’s their BFF and wants him there, I’d definitely make an effort to be there!
Anon says
Oh definitely accept all – we don’t say no to party invites, and we invite everyone in the class even if my kid doesn’t like the kid. I never let my own relationship with parents dictate kids activities, etc. I’d say yes to as many as you can – and see if you can drop off rather than attend if you truly can’t make it as she gets a bit older.
I would also caution you that the “I’m not because I work” can be a crutch and isn’t necessarily true. I have friends who are both SAHMs and working moms. The SAHMs sometimes do stuff when I can’t, but certainly not always. I am one of the new working moms in my area and if I had this mindset it would be really really hard to make parent friends. Give the SAHMs a chance.
Anon says
I just reread – why are the kids in daycare with SAHMs? Maybe just for preschool hours…but if it’s truly full daycare then those moms much be “ladies who lunch” and maybe not your cup of tea anyway, lol. (I am a SAHM and my best mom friend is a working mom, but she’s my best friend because our non-kid interests align). (And yes I am judging, but paying for full time child care while one parent does not “work” at all seems to indicate a certain kind of something :X )
Anon says
Eh, or they work part time or have 3+ kids. It’s hard to do the traditional “homemaker” type SAHM tasks with 3 or more kids.
anon says
Oh also with a four year old, I don’t know that you know who your kids really close to? It can vary a lot week to week and there’s some kids who THINK so and so is their best friend but really they play more with so and so. And would probably want both kids there if possible.
Anon says
I need to send in some food for a daycare party and am trying to figure out what I can send that isn’t junk food. If I send something like fruit, what kind of containers do I send it in to make it easy for the teachers? Cupcake liners? The kids are 2.
Lily says
I’d get something like applesauce pouches or shelf-stable fruit cups (no sugar added)? Something that’s individually packaged. Another idea would be string cheese (individually wrapped).
Anonymous says
If you insist on healthy, I’d do individual bags of Annie’s crackers, string cheese, cheese sticks, or individual packs of apple slices. No one will be impressed by hand-cut fresh fruit presented in cute containers, and it’s too much hassle.
NYCer says
If it were me, I would send something that comes in prepackaged single servings….cheese sticks, single serving goldfish or pretzel packets, mini boxes of raisins, apple sauce pouches, etc.
anon says
At our school, I’ve sent in a big container of cut up strawberries and the teachers just dish them out onto napkins or plates for the kids – it seems the easiest. The pre-packaged stuff is a pain because the teachers then have to open them all for each individual kid.
Mary Moo Cow says
Bagged apple slices, baby carrots/carrot sticks and hummus cups, goldfish, applesauce or yogurt pouches.
Anon says
Following up on the above – has anyone successfully transitioned an early waker (let’s say, naturally up at 5:45 to 6:15 as a toddler) to sleep in later? We have a pretty firm bedtime of 7PM, but I’ve been trying to push to 8 – hoping to convince my toddler to stay in bed longer. So far, it’s not working.
I always hear “sleep begets sleep,” but I’m on my 3rd early waker, and am willing to try a later bedtime if it will eventually turn kid into someone who sleeps in.
Anonymous says
I don’t think you can reset a person’s natural biological clock. You can sometimes get a night owl to fall asleep a bit earlier through sheer physical exhaustion, but I’ve never heard of anything that works the other way round.
Anon says
+1
Anon says
I’m so tired, and so my natural response to this response was “BUT I WANT TO RESET THEIR NATURAL BIOLOGICAL CLOCK!”
Ha – I hear of kids sleeping in until like 8 or 9, and I just think – how?! really?! who are these kids?! I have yet to have one of those. I also have yet to potty train a kid where there wasn’t serious angst regarding going #2 in a toilet. Each kid is so very different, so I feel like my husband and I are the common denominator here!! They are overall lovely people, however, so I guess I’ll focus on that :)
Anon says
I have one of those. She did not go to bed before 11 until she turned 4. I am grateful that preschool (and kindergarten!) start at 9 AM so that she can get enough sleep. So yes, we both get to sleep in, but also I am never alone because we go to bed at the same time. Tradeoffs!
AwayEmily says
Unfortunately I do not have any inspiring stories for you…all my kids are early risers, have been since they were babies, and no amount of bedtime tweaking changed it substantially. The only big difference has come from the Hatch light — they now at least stay in their room and hang out quietly in the AM til it turns green, enabling adults to sleep in longer. And sometimes they even go back to sleep when they wake up and see it’s not green yet.
Gas Miles says
Are any of you paying your nannies who drive your kids around more / offering a gas stipend given the cost of gas right now?
Our nanny is great and, despite her being our employee, we have a really good but somewhat casual relationship with her. For example, if she stays late because I’m caught in traffic she refuses extra pay. We really do take great care of her in terms of pay, time off, etc. So, I would never ask her to log all of her miles and then apply a per-mile reimbursement nor would she have interest in doing so. But, I’d like to acknowledge the state of gas prices right now and that she drives my DD around. I can’t figure that it’s even 10-15 miles/day, but she certainly does drive her to the library, playgrounds, gymnastics, etc.
What are you all doing? Was considering adding an extra $50/week to her pay to account for gas but not sure if that’s reasonable (too much? too little?). If prices retreat I wouldn’t plan on taking this extra pay away, either.
Cornellian says
I’ve never had a nanny, but that seems thoughtful. If gas went from, say, 3 – 4.50 and she was using maybe 8 gallons a week, maybe just give a supplemental 20 a week? Is it treated differently on your payroll software if it’s expense reimbursement?
Anonymous says
I’ll tell you what we actually do and then what I would do in your situation. What we do…when nanny takes kiddo places, nanny drives our car, and we maintain it including gas. For your situation, I’d give her a $100 gas card now and then either (1) keep it up once a month or so, or (2) ask how she wants to handle increased gas prices at the moment.
Pogo says
I pay the mileage reimbursement rate set by the government.
Pogo says
and I don’t have her log it – I guesstimate based on where she drove them (for us it’s the same routes every day unless she does something special like pick them up at my parents’).
Anon says
My nanny usually drives our car, but if she takes hers, I usually do ~ 50 cents per mile.
Anon says
When our nanny drives our kids, she either drives my car (she’s on our insurance) if I’m WFH, or we reimburse her mileage at the IRS rate (we pay over the table, so our payroll system handles this).
Anon says
My nanny has a work credit card linked to one of our accounts for purchases for kiddo/her when they’re on the go (snacks at the zoo or whatever). I just tell her to put a tank or two of gas on it whenever she’s out and about with kiddo during the week. Not perfect, but we have a similarly casual relationship with our nanny and this keeps it from getting weird with tracking. We wind up paying for most of her personal gas, but we don’t reimburse her for milage on her car and we LOVE her, so it evens out and makes us all happy.
Anonymous says
We just hired a new nanny through a service. They recommended we offer a monthly stipend of 100-150 a month for commuting costs. This is ON TOP of standard IRS mileage reimbursement when she uses her car for our purposes (errands or kid activities). Our employment contract states it will be paid as long as gas is above $3 a gallon. So theoretically if gas goes down, it will go away. You could consider offering something like that.
On the IRS rate, I have been concerned that it doesn’t keep up with gas prices. It’s set once a year!?
Anon says
Can someone remind/encourage me to draw more boundaries at work? I work in corporate America and have just returned from maternity leave. Kids are in daycare. I continue to be scheduled for meetings first thing in the morning (7am) and at the end of the day (5pm or later). Blocking my calendar is a joke, as everyone else just makes themselves available. I can’t drop off or pick up my kiddos when this happens, leaving my spouse with the more flexible job to pick up the slack. But this leads to occasional resent on his part or at least feeling like his job isn’t as important. I don’t know that it’s worth it (to me) to always be present at work and make my spouse pick up the burden, as I don’t want to burn all my relationship capital on work matters.
Anonymous says
You can block your calendar. You just keep doing it, decline the meetings, and do not go to them.
AwayEmily says
Could you take either dropoff OR pickup every day, and your husband takes the other one? It would probably be an easier sell to work to say “I’m never available until 9am” or “I’m never available from 5-9” than to tell them you need to keep both slots clear. And that way you are splitting things totally evenly with your husband.
Anonymous says
This. I’d determine which is more highly visible, morning or evening, and make myself consistently available then and not on the other end of the day.
Boston Legal Eagle says
This. Also, how senior are you? The more senior I’ve gotten, the easier it has been for me to say, nope I’m not available between 4:30-7:30 unless absolutely necessary and people generally respect it.
Clementine says
Yup. I block out 5-8. If it’s actually on fire, call my personal phone.
Cornellian says
Or pick days each week so you’re not obviously blocking out daycare drop off every day. Like maybe next week you commit to no meetings tuesday and wednesday morning.
Anon says
This. And you need to pick the one that works better with your work culture ideally. I’m in an office where no one bats an eye if I don’t show up until 10 AM, but if I started dipping out right at 5, we’d have a problem.
Anon says
Are these internal meetings with the same general group of people? I had to have a come to jesus with my team (of 20 – so no small subset) after a while. Declining the meetings wasn’t enough. I would make myself available only after bedtime in the evenings. I would also skim email in the morning but not be available for any calls until I was in my car on the way to work. And I was pretty blunt – this is how you are inclusive of working moms and pulling these moves is why we have a very marked pattern of losing women within 3 years of having children. I think it resonated and has honestly been a lot better (not perfect) since then.
I would not take this same approach with a client, fwiw.
Anon says
Oh my goodness- meetings before 8 am and after 5 pm are ridiculous, especially if they’re common. What nonsense is this? YMMV based on your company/position etc but it’s incredibly reasonable to not do meetings outside those hours. The suggestion above about choosing pick ups/drop offs and then sticking with it is a good one too.
Anon says
+1 Childless people probably hate this too! I would just stand firm on not doing either.
Anonymous says
Exactly. This needs to be framed as a general workplace culture issue, not a parent-specific one. Everyone needs meetings to be confined to business hours.
Anon says
Original OP here with more detail: I work in the chief of staff office for a global fortune 50 company. Meetings are being added with less than 3 hours notice. I am senior enough in my career to decline for anyone but these execs – think 2-down from the CEO. And so many of us have small kids. I usually have done drop off and my husband has done pickup, but it’s hard to follow through when the meeting comes in with little notice. Sigh.
Cornellian says
Maybe paid outside help (even a few days a week) is the answer, then.
But it doesn’t sound like staying there is compatible with hands-on parenting long term, if that’s what you want. Is kid currently with a nanny? I swear 90% of my total lifetime sickness came in the year my kid started daycare, and it can be brutal for both you and your husband.
Boston Legal Eagle says
And people wonder why there are so few women in top leadership positions at corporate America when more women graduate from college than men… I always want to point out the obvious caregiving responsibilities. Do the other parents at your company all have SAHP spouses or just outsource everything? What will happen if you decline all of the early meetings? IMO, childcare responsibilities are my other “job” where I have certain commitments, although a lot of corporate America doesn’t appreciate it.
Anon says
Okay, this is helpful. I’m going to be perhaps a bit too honest here. If you want to take on primary caregiving responsibilities (which is what not being available before 9 or after 5 in a high powered job) you need to find a different job. These are high powered execs who likely outsource most of their care – the fact that you don’t isn’t going to change this pattern. Either you and your husband need to split these responsibilities, or you need to find a new job. We lose women not because these responsibilities exist, but because they fall on women – that’s a problem at home, not at the office.
Generally jobs like this come with high compensation, so the expectation is that you’ll outsource and get better childcare (a nanny or an au pair/daycare combo).
Spirograph says
Yeah, it really depends on role and what time zones you work with. I’m also in a global F50 company and similar level. I block 7-9am on my calendar for getting kids ready for school & dropoff and that is non-negotiable outside of like… if I need to be in a meeting with C-levels (which is rare). But I semi-regularly have meetings after 5 because I live on the east coast and do a lot of work with people on the west coast. My husband does pick-up because afternoons tend to be my busier hours. If I have to meet with people in Asia or Europe, I offer 6-7am as a non-preferred option.
Who’s scheduling the meetings? I try to stay tight with assistants of the execs most likely to schedule meetings with me, and clearly communicate boundaries to them and to my boss. I do my best to be flexible, but they know 7-9 is out of bounds unless there are truly no other options.
I hope you don’t mean that people would expect you to be on a 7am meeting that they scheduled literally while you were sleeping… I would just not show up to that and say I didn’t see it come in (which would absolutely be true 99% of the time; I almost never check my work phone until I’ve dropped off my kids)
Pogo says
sadly, this has happened to me (early am meeting scheduled while sleeping) and people on my team. I agree you should decline out of principle.
Spirograph says
It’s happened to me a few times too, but I have never gotten any grief from saying, “Can you please send me the notes from x meeting? Sorry I didn’t see that come in; I can be available early in the morning, but I need to know the day before.” Usually it’s someone in Europe who didn’t realize I’m US-based, or someone added me “for visibility” so I’d get minutes, but didn’t actually expect me to show up.
I’ll also add that I block my calendar as “out of office” for that time rather than just busy. Busy gets scheduled over all. the. time. but people tend to respect ooo.
Pogo says
I’m with you – sounds like we work for similar size companies and are similar seniority. I can decline the meetings, sure, but they’ll just hold them without me and then I’ll lose credibility and/or we won’t move forward with a decision. Unfortunately when I need to meet with the CEO’s staff or one level down from that, it’s a 7am or a late night because of Asia, and because these people are booked solid all day weeks and weeks out. And typically I’m reading out to them so I’m the presenter so it’s not like I can just decline.
At my company, and because I do work so much with Europe and Asia, I make morning a priority, but we also have a PT nanny so we don’t have to rush home for pickup. I still try to get home by 5:45 because I like to see my children, so I accept a meeting after 5pm VERY rarely (same for DH) and we block the time on the other person’s calendar so they know.
DLC says
Can your Husband just be the default drop off and pick up person? Not because his job is less important, but because his job is more valuable in its flexibility. I think resentment comes often from misplaced expectations and perhaps the expectation should just be that you aren’t available for drop off/ pick up. I have a very unpredictable job too and my husband grew less resentful when he started mentally adding two hours to the time I predicted that I would be home. He stopped being mad when I told him I would be home by six because in his head he was ready to solo parent until 8pm. Find other parenting burdens to shoulder if this seems unfair. Truthfully, you probably already are…
Anonymous says
Any tips for washing my 3 YO’s face to get sunscreen off? Wipes alone don’t seem to cut it, and he’s been very resistant to being scrubbed with a soapy washcloth.
anon in brooklyn says
I use a cotton pad with micellar water.
Anon for this says
I have decided we need an au pair as it is the only realistic solution to our current childcare needs (which honestly are 7:30-9 in the morning and 3-5:30pm).
Husband is hesitant and I finally got it out of him that he’s afraid his blue collar brothers will make fun of him for being ‘fancy’. Neither of their wives worked and honestly? He’s not that close to his brothers and it’s true that I have a successful career whereas neither of my sisters in law did anything beyond part time work.
I am framing it much more as an exchange student thing but… he doesn’t have a solution so I don’t know what else he’s thinking.
Anonymous says
Could it also be that he is overwhelmed by the idea of a stranger’s living in your home? I could never, ever have an au pair for this reason. I am an introvert and need home to be a safe place where I don’t have to be “on” all the time.
Anon says
Partially?
He has a lot of work travel and can’t help with drop off or pick ups because of his job. We have had other people live with us and it was totally fine.
The other option is him changing fields which he is opposed to.
Cornellian says
Yeah sounds like he needs to propose a better solution if this one doesn’t work for him. Maybe two PT nannies. But clearly the status quo isn’t working.
Anon says
I actually tried to see if I could get college students to fill this and… shockingly hard and not enough hours for before care to make sense to do it.
Anon says
Yeah a nanny was bad enough for me, I can’t imagine an au pair. I know it’s a great solution for other people but it would be a total non-starter for me.
Anonymous says
I actually do think an au pair sounds like a good idea for your needs. Why do his brothers even need to know about the au pair? And also who cares what they think.
Anon says
…THANK YOU.
Anon says
We’ve had an au pair (well, several) for 5 years now. We don’t consider them strangers, but family. We are really thoughtful in our interviewing and then talk to them for months before they arrive (generally from January – August). By the time they join us we feel like we know them and they know us. It’s maybe a bit awkward for 1-2 weeks at most.
My kids adopt the new au pair as “theirs” quickly and love the heck out of them. Our au pairs are always the first to be willing to ride bikes with them or play board games or pain their nails or jam out to a Spotify Playlist. It’s a super sweet relationship.
Our first au pair (from 5 years ago) is flying over to visit soon and we’re going to go visit our 3rd au pair in Mexico soon. We all stay in touch. They also have gone to visit each other.
My family didn’t understand the au pair program at first, but now pretty much get it. They’ve enjoyed having our au pairs come with us to family events and holidays. They love hearing about Christmas or Easter or whatever holiday traditions are important to the au pair and how they celebrate at home. The au pair also often will make a food dish from home to share. It’s been good.
All of our au pairs have retreated to their rooms in the evening, as they also don’t want togetherness 24/7. That gives us our space and they have theirs. I’ve heard of clingy au pairs, but we try to screen for that during the interviewing process. Ours tend to go workout, talk online with friends or watch Netflix in their rooms after work. They don’t want to hang out with 40-somethings washing dishes and paying bills when there are other options.
Anon says
This is awesome, thank you!
Can you suggest any questions you use to screen that out?
anon says
We look for candidates who have lived somewhere other than at home with their parents. Some have done another au pair experience in the UK or another country. Some have done study abroad through ERASMUS. Some have lived in an apartment with friends. Living away from home builds independence, IMO.
If they haven’t lived away from home, we look for someone who has traveled outside their native country without a parent or guardian. Figuring out how to get from point A to point B on your own shows a level of independence.
We also look for someone over the age of 21. Bonus points if they’ve also graduated from college, especially if they’ve worked while finishing college. It shows a level of maturity.
We also ask about their goals in the program. Some talk about spending all their time with our family (not a fit for us). Others talk about a mixed experience, getting to know our family and traveling with friends too (a better fit for us).
None of this is a perfect predictor, but you start to get a sense.
anon says
I’ll add that I don’t think the program is a great fit if you have zero interest in mentoring a young woman. Every au pair shows up as a young person with stuff to learn. I’ve really loved watching them grow into adults and go home to start their careers in earnest. They often show up struggling with English and intimidated to be away from their family. They completely blossom over the 1-2 years they spend with us. It’s really fun to watch them mature, though the process isn’t always painless, as with any young adult. I’ve had to coach on everything from how to safely go on an internet date to not falling prey to online scammers.
Anonymous says
There may be language issues as well. My DH grew up blue collar and for some reason having a ‘sitter’ or ‘babysitter’ to help when he travels for work is not fancy but “au pair” and “nanny” are rich people things.
Anon says
Agreed, I think this is just semantics.
Anonymous says
Planning a couple days’ beach (Lake Michigan) trip this summer with an almost-two-year-old. What do we need, other than the obvious towels, bathing suit, sun hat, sandals, and sunscreen? Thanks to Covid, we haven’t traveled anywhere with a kid, so I’m finding this a little overwhelming.
Clementine says
Sippy/lidded cups and bibs are what I forget. It’ll be super fun!
anonM says
If staying at an air b n b, and driving, grab an extra baby gate. We’re travelling soon, and I’m also grabbing our foldable step-stool so the 4 and 2 yo can still reach the bathroom sink, but YMMV. Pack a sound machine. Warm stuff/rain gear for colder nights/bad weather. I like giving little ones a small backpack to pack for themselves, to start teaching them to pack but even more importantly to limit the number of toys. They fill that, that’s it. Water bottles. Grocery bags for trash when you go to the beach. A lot of public beaches have small concession stands, so grab some cash if that’s the case. I like the giant Ikea bags for throwing all the wet/dirty stuff in to drag home at the end of the trip. I’m also really liking the sunscreen stick for re-doing the nose/cheeks/ears/shoulders throughout the day. Have fun, Lake Michigan is beautiful!
Anonymous says
Baby powder helps with sand removal on littles. Long sleeve rash guard makes life easier. Life jacket (little kids are slippery). We required it if they were in the water at all. And Lake Michigan can be cold on even the hottest day, so sand toys are always good. Umbrellas and sun glasses never were used (too windy and kids never wore them), YMMV.
OP says
OMG this is genius. I had no idea about baby powder. Kiddo regularly brings home just about the entire sandbox from daycare (crusted on because she goes back and forth between the sandbox and water table), so we’ll be trying this tonight.
Anon says
Probably some sort of sleeping arrangement for the kiddo – PNP or an inflatable air mattress if your kid has graduated from the crib at home. Otherwise I think that was about all we brought to Michigan with a 2 year old in 2020. It’ll be fun! 2 is a good age for the beach and you’ll get a break from mid-day sun and heat when kiddo naps.
Anon says
Life vest and a small amount of sand toys for scooping, digging, etc. if the beach is sandy (it’s been over a decade since I was in Lake Michigan and I don’t remember). You may also get some mileage out of a water friendly ball (I like one mini kickball for this purpose, textured so easy to grab, able to be rinsed off, light enough to throw and more durable than a beach ball). When we travel with family (extra arms to carry things), I sometimes bring a folding kids camp chair so kiddo has their spot to sit. And if your beach permits it, a pop up tent for snack, naps or rest time is still helpful at that age.
Anon says
It’s sandy. It’s not powdery sand like Florida, but it is sand.
OP says
I grew up in the Chicago area, so I’m pretty familiar with the lake, but not at all familiar with the lake + toddler. As far as sandy vs. rocky beaches go, it really depends where you are. If I’m remembering correctly, there will be both near where we’re staying.
Anon says
If it is rocky, make sure you have sturdy closed toe water friendly shoes (keens or something). You have way more sandal options for sandy beaches (although I would still go for water friendly).
Anon says
For your kid of course. I realized that wasn’t clear, but while I always think about my own footwear, it took me a while to also think about my kid’s footwear when I traveled.