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Anon says
We have friends where the mom was just diagnosed with advanced stage 4 (likely terminal) cancer. Their kids are early elementary like ours. We’re not close, more of Christmas card friends, but have known them for years and live about 30 minutes away. Any suggestions for what we can do? It’s just so devastating.
The mom went to the doctor last week with a complaint of fatigue and hasn’t come home, having already started treatment. I don’t want to overwhelm the dad who is dealing with everything at home and then some. From social media it sounds like they have closer friends who are helping with the day-to-day, but I don’t really know.
AIMS says
Oh my god, what a nightmare. Maybe you can reach out to the friends who are helping and ask them how you can contribute? I also think sending a message that says you’re so sorry to hear about what is happening and you are around to watch the kids, drop off food or do anything else that may be helpful, and add that there is no need to respond.
anon says
I wish I knew their other friends, but I don’t know who to contact. We’re friends from years ago and have stayed in touch, but don’t have shared friends at this point.
(Think co-workers 20 years ago and have attended each other’s weddings, baby showers and milestone birthdays but no regular contact.)
anon says
How did you hear about the diagnosis? Short of finding some connection somewhere, I’d consider sending a message via FB messenger or insta DM (whatever medium of social you have been following) to the closer friends and asking to be included in a Meal Train or any other organized effort. I find in times like these, strangers reaching out to strangers to help a mutual relationship is highly welcomed.
anon says
The dad posted on social media. I can reply to him or text him directly, but suspect he has a lot on his plate already.
Anonymous says
If you look at the comments, likes, photo tags, etc., it can be easy to figure out who the likely organizers are and message them.
anon says
The organizing seems to be being done elsewhere. The FB post responses are more random college friends and great aunts. I think I’m just going to have to message him.
Anonymous says
Can you reach out to a closer friend and see if there’s a meal train?
Anonymous says
Ah I see. Then I would send a card and include a gift card for a meal delivery service.
Anon says
Even just a card will be appreciated knowing that you’re thinking of her and (if you and she are at all religious) praying for her. My mom’s (stage 4) cancer diagnosis was almost 6 years ago (and she’s still fighting) and she still has the cards she got tacked up all over the house to bring her joy. If you are at the friend level where you would consider sending a gift, good (unscented) lotion, fuzzy socks and a large tumbler with straw all make excellent gifts for people going through treatment.
Anonymous says
I was in your shoes earlier this year (my friend’s best friend, who was only a passing acquaintance of mine but had a kid in activities with my kid, died of cancer). Meals and logistical support (e.g., rides to activities for kids) were the things the family needed most, and if you aren’t that close to the family meals are the least intrusive way of providing practical support. If you can identify on social media who the close friends are who are coordinating things (sounds like you can, and it was pretty obvious in the case of the person I knew), you could try messaging them to ask for meal train info. Otherwise send a gift card for Doordash or the like.
I found the whole thing incredibly upsetting even though I didn’t know the mom well. It really makes you confront your own mortality. Mind the “circles of grief” rule (people closer in vent outward, so you can be there to support her closer friends but don’t dump on them) and studiously avoid “grief tourism.” I ended up reading some Kate Bowler and have become more intentional about living life instead of putting things off. I am taking concrete action towards pursuing some interests and dreams I’d set aside until the kids were out of the house. I don’t want to face a surprise diagnosis regretting that I didn’t get a chance to do XYZ because I was putting all of my energy and resources into the kids and saving for a retirement that might never come.
anonM says
So sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, this happened to my cousins/aunt.
I’d reach out to the close friend. A few things you could offer, if you want and have the time, or just do — but explicitly leave it to the close friends’ judgment on how/if to do. You can give money for and/or arrange a housecleaner for the next few months/year even. You can ask the friend if you could handle back-to-school or sports items for the kids. (“Friend, I want to help in a tangible way. Do the kids have any sports coming up that they need gear for? If you give me a list of kids sport item and sizes, I’ll find it all and drop it off.”) Gift card to a local grocery story, preferably one that has some ready-made meals they can just pick up. These things really helped our family members.
Also, if it is terminal, try to put something in your calendar around the holidays and re-post here. I’ll give you some how-to-help-grieving-people with first holidays tips.
anon says
Someone has set up a Go Fund Me for them which has garnered almost $150k in a couple of days. I’ve donated there as it seems more straightforward than having them manage gift cards.
Since our kids are the same ages, I was considering putting together a few activity packs for the kids with quiet things they could do. I suspect the kids will need to do some waiting and other times the parents may need them to occupy themselves. I know I always appreciate having something new I can just pull out that distracts the kids for a bit.
Anonymous says
I would message the person who set up the GoFund me to find out who’s running the meal train. Chances are it’s the same person or they know who it is. Actual home-cooked food that they don’t have to order or plan is more helpful than money to order meals.
Anonymous says
Yes, this. Message the person running the GFM.
A friend of mine (not sure close but close enough!)’s husband was recently diagnosed with stage 4. I’m not in her immediate circle nor close enough in distance to be the most helpful, but a few things I did were:
– send $200 in local area food delivery gift cards, to be used as needed/when needed.
– I’m considering figuring out how to get their yard landscaped. Dad was a major Yard Freak and I think she’s been doing it, and last time I dropped kiddo off I could see the difference and I feel like this is a silly thing that could cheer Dad up.
– every couple weeks I ask if I can take one or both of their kids for X hours. They are friends with mine.
– invite them to things as I would normally, but expect nothing.
– dad likes beer and can no longer drink. We have specialty canned water for him – it’s called liquid death which I find macabre but he thinks is funny and it looks like a beer can. I send them a case whenever I think of it because it’s water! And easy.
Marshmallow says
Anonymous at 4:13, you sound like a lovely friend. God forbid we were in the same situation, landscaping would absolutely cheer up my DH. You’re so thoughtful.
Anonymous says
How awful. I agree with others that reaching out to mutual contacts to try to get info on a meal train would be nice, and cards, and occasional check-ins. Long term, maybe make an effort to just be present as friends and meet them where they are for any socializing they’re interested in. Prolonged illness can feel really isolating for both the person suffering and their partner (at least, from what friends and family have told me). For example, the wife of one of my husband’s close friends has been fighting cancer for years and he’s been very appreciative of their friends keeping him in their Whatsapp group and dropping everything to come hang out on his porch and watch sportsball on the rare occasions he’s free and up to it. Between young kids and caution because his wife is immunocompromised in a pandemic, he can’t have a “normal” social life when he most needs the mental health benefits of friend time.
Anonymous says
Does anyone else here have a child diagnosed with level 1 autism (ASD-1)? Mine was diagnosed right before the pandemic shut down our schools for a year and a half. Prior to that, she was in normal schools and was doing well academically, but had some challenges with listening and some quirks (running around aimlessly at recess). Kiddo had some friends but lost them one by one over probably being too intense and (to the other kids) odd in relationships (a lot of talking at people vs having convos). Then the bullying started, so it was a relief that schools shut down. After going back last year, it’s obvious that kiddo needs help with social skills. The school is reluctant to do anything “since it’s not academic” even though the school system employs OTs, etc., often for elementary grades (kiddo has now gone to middle school). One doctor recomended ABA therapy; the ABA people wanted 40 hours of therapy a week (IDK what for — kiddo really needs to be in school with maybe some help around that schedule); after a year on the waitlist I told them that we just were going in a different direction (which would up being no direction at all). Part of our problem is having a girl — she is able to do everything, just her social skills are not where a middle school girl’s are and she is differing and getting teased, losing friends, etc. She can go to the dentist, get her hair cut, etc., so many in our local autism group are looking at a very different skill level (like needing your kid qualified for SSI and respite care for grownups). And she may be “better” off than similar boys, but she is flailing and unhappy in social settings (and is aware of it). OT? There doesn’t seem to be any good social skills group for her type of deficit, but I see this as being something that something worth pursuing (and she wants to pursue it and keeps asking me — doctors, psychiatrists, therapists have ideas that are more theoretical than linking us up with any specific provider). It’s like if you want dance lessons, you sign up for dance lessons and for this it is terribly murky and unclear.
Anonymous says
Can her therapist refer you to an educational consultant? Consultants seem to be the best at connecting families with actual resources such as groups and classes, and can also help design and advocate for an IEP or 504 plan. If you want actual services such as OT through the school, as opposed to just “accommodations” such as extended time on tests or preferential seating, you will need an IEP instead of a 504. Just be prepared for the consultant to throw out crazy options like relocating for a particular private school, and don’t be afraid to shut that nonsense down and refocus them on practical solutions.
Read up on ABA. It is basically conditioning kids to appear neurotypical through aversive methods and is highly disfavored. It also seems like overkill for a kid with ASD-1 who can function to some degree in a normal classroom setting.
Anonymous says
OP here. We have an IEP, but we are also in an urban school system where a shocking amount of kids are not prepared for careers or college, so an ASD-1 kid who is above grade level who is asking for “extras” just gets the side-eye. And maybe they don’t bother with OT in middle school except for kids who are in special schools for kids with very special needs (feeding tubes, etc.). I can actually pay for this or use our flex spending. It just seems like there is nothing good for her really. And it seems like she needs some combo of physical therapy (still a toe walker with a very awkward head-first gait), OT, and social skills and I have no background in this to navigate and our pediatrician thought ABA therapy was what she needed (and we weren’t even able to road test if something like a couple of hours a week would have been helpful, certainly not 40 and in place of school for a kid who can solve equations and reads well).
Anonymous says
Truly, move. Move to as school district that cares. They exist.
And get a new doctor who can refer you to PT and a social skills group.
Anonymous says
You need an advocate at the IEP meetings. Again, an educational consultant can help with this, or look for a law school with a special education clinic. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Anonymous says
Or hire a lawyer. Clinics are for people with no resources not most of us posting here.
Anonymous says
That is the point of an educational consultant—to help you navigate the system and find resources and programs that of course you wouldn’t know about.
anon says
Does she do better in more structured social settings? You could consider something like a board game club or coding club or a choir or a quirky sport (fencing / archery). Couple that with 1:1 therapy.
I’ve also heard great things about camps for kids with some special needs. Our friends have a daughter with ADHD who really thrives at her sleep away camp every summer.
Anonymous says
OP: probably yes. And with COVID, that has been an on-pause goal that maybe we’ll make some progress on now? I feel like her social skills are more like a typical boy her age than a girl her age, so maybe something with coding, which she has wanted. It doesn’t help that her public school is randomly 70% female, so sort of the wrong mix for her with lots of mean girls (a lot of boys seem to be at a STEM magnet but she likes her current wchool, which is very small so that is favorable for her not getting lost in the crowd).
anon says
What is she doing this summer?
anonymous says
How can she like her current school if she’s getting bullied and not getting supports? I know staying where she is feels comfortable for her, but it doesn’t sound like a great fit.
Allie says
Does she have a special interest? Can she connect to other kids that share that interest? Can you find someone else her age and gender with the same diagnosis and connect them? I don’t have first hand experience but it sounds to me like she needs to find her “people” and it might not be most of the kids at school.
So Anon says
My oldest (11 and entering middle school) is autistic and sounds similar to your daughter. He does great academically and is now doing well socially. We did 3-4 years of OT to address specific issues like core strength and motor planning and also address some social issues. He ended OT about a year ago. He has a 504 because of Crohn’s Disease and we slip in a few items related to autism as well.
A few thoughts: You are not doing anything wrong. Navigating this world is incredibly difficult if your child does not meet the criteria for an IEP but still needs some level of assistance. I agree with the poster above who cautioned about ABA. It is highly disliked by the autistic community. I found a few things that helped: First, I helped my son find his people. I observed and asked who my son felt most comfortable with and then actively facilitated those connections. My son FaceTimes and plays online games with a few kids who are pretty similar. Having the structure of the game really helps the social connection. Second, I found activities with structure where I knew he could talk about the activity and would be met with enthusiasm: band, legos, minecrafting camp, or outschool classes. Finally, my son attends a summer camp for kids who are neurodiverse. Its a two week sleep away camp where there is a low counselor to student ratio and they provide some level of scaffolding to the day and with social interactions to help all. My only caution with these camps is to check that they embrace the neurodiversity and are not trying to train the kids to be neurotypical.
Anne-on says
Have you tried outschool dot com (an online option)? They have lots of ‘social skills’ therapy classes in a moderated setting. I agree that ABA can be SUPER problematic, but I’d look for a teacher who views teaching these skills as similar to learning another language – your daughter’s ‘native’ language is neurodiverse but since she lives in a neurotypical world it will benefit her to learn the hows and whys of a neurotypical world and then she can apply them or not as she needs. It’s going to sound odd, but neurodiverse tiktok has some great creators and videos on self-advocacy and how to communicate more effectively in a way that feels authentic to you. I also like ADDitude magazine and they do lots of webinars and have links to local therapists. Instead of OT at her age, maybe something that teaches hand eye coordination/balance – rock climbing? martial arts? yoga? tennis? something where they all have a coach/teacher and are working towards building skills but she won’t be targeted or blamed for being a new learner/bringing the team’s score down?
anon says
I have a boy who is the same age as your daughter and also flailing in social situations and having trouble making and keeping friends. It is a real problem, and I have not had much success in finding any program or therapist that can help him. He has ADHD, not autism, but the challenge is that he can learn something in therapy, seem to get it on an intellectual level, and be totally unable to implement it in the moment. I am similarly lost, and he’s developed a lot of anxiety in the past year.
All this to say, I have no advice, but I commiserate with you completely. The lack of any real, practical help is so draining and frustrating. A 504 plan or IEP don’t teach social skills, you know? The school has occasionally held “social skills” training workshops for kids who need it, but I can’t say they’ve made much of a difference.
Anonnn says
ABA isn’t the answer. Even if it weren’t typically harmful, it tends to create a worst case scenario outcome where the girl with ASD-1 puts massive effort into trying to be something she’s not, but no one else is fooled, so she ends up lacking authentic connections with the people who would have liked her in the first place, without even successfully forging connections based on the ABA training. (Studies show that people can recognize ASD differences almost at a glance, even if they don’t know what they are; it’s just not possible to hide them.)
Speech pragmatics however can be tremendously helpful. The goal isn’t “how to pretend to be totally neurotypical”; it’s “how to understand and translate between what comes naturally for you and what comes naturally for most people around you so that you can get along within majority culture.” Explicit explanation of cultural norms, what people mean when they say or do certain things, etc., can be really helpful!
Anonymous says
OP here. Re your second paragraph, is there a discipline or a field where people help kids do that? To me, it seems fuzzy where the boundaries are between OT and speech therapy (and maybe there are other things). I’m just not familiar with this area enough to search for a person to provide it (or to ask for referrals from the pediatrician, etc.).
Also, kiddo likes the current school in that she is very focus on the positive and knows of no really great place. Every place has been rotten to meh and this is at least familiar and has specials that she likes and a teacher who brings in ferrets. I know, not a quality evaluation. But she has never had awesome and if I could get her that in hobbies if not in school, it would be just so great for her.
We are spending the summer helping a relative navigate a family crisis, so she is in some half day art camps (which she likes a lot, but interacts more with the teacher than her peers) while I WFH and try to help with my sister’s kids while one kid has some medical issues addressed in a hospital further away. The cousins are too little to be good playmates and she is not a natural babysitter, but they co-exist well.
Anon says
The right speech pathologist should offer pragmatics as part of speech therapy. I am also not sure if it can also be part of OT or not. I am not sure that a pediatrician would know who to refer to. Medicine isn’t always great with ASD (this is likely to be a lifelong issue unless medical education changes). Some OTs and speech pathologists use ABA/behaviorism, while others do not.
It’s great that she likes the school and focuses on the positives, though the bullying concerns me depending on what that means. In small children, one sign of ASD can be “parallel play.” Structured, interest-based activities can be a wonderful social outlet (like the art camps) for older kids. I love the idea of making that happen through hobbies.
You say in art she’s interacting more with the teacher than her peers. It’s not always a bad thing to get a head start on learning adult social norms as opposed to the fluid and codeswitching social norms of grade school. But often with ASD same-aged peers aren’t really meaningfully peers given the developmental differences, so it could also be that she and the instructor are just the only ones who aren’t peers with the rest of the group. So one way to think about this is where are her peers? Where are people who have more in common with her? Special interests can help with this, since finding people who are just as enthusiastic or passionate about a special interest can be a real source of joy.
Allie says
Question – what do you like about your kid? What makes her special, unique, wonderful? How can you get her in the setting where that shines and she connects to other people who value that?
AwayEmily says
What do you do when your kid reacts with a lot of anger to tiny things? An example: this morning my 4yo was helping me out away laundry. He started to bring the washclothes downstairs, and I told him that they go in the linen closet, not downstairs. He immediately got angry and hit me (very lightly). I’m more pro-Lansbury than many people here but I absolutely do not have it in me to be like “oh wow, you feel so angry about where the towels go.” Should I just…ignore it? Say “don’t hit” and ignore the rest? I feel like right now I’m overreacting (the hitting really triggers me) — not yelling but definitely giving him a bigger reaction than I probably should. This type of thing happens often enough that I need a strategy I can implement consistently so I’m not trying to figure out what to do in the moment every single time.
Anon says
I’m not an expert by any means but my kid sounds similar (although now at 4.5 she’s mostly outgrown the hitting), but I would vote for saying “don’t hit” and ignoring the rest. Hitting in a kid that age deserves a big reaction, imo, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for you to get upset about that.
Anonymous says
This. No hitting, period. Too much talk about the feelings validates the hitting and magnifies the feelings. If you let them feel their feelings without a big discussion the feelings will blow over sooner and they will learn that they can deal.
Anon says
Hitting in our house (whether intentional or “unintentional” as an anger reaction) is an immediate time out.
Anon says
Yep we do automatic timeouts for anything physical, including hitting. But I don’t subscribe to the gentle parenting movement.
Mary Moo Cow says
I aim for a combination of Lansbury and “don’t hit”/ignore, but sometimes, the “don’t hit” comes out first and in a hiss or a yell. When I realize I’ve overreacted, I say something like, “I can tell you are mad because I corrected you/You wanted to take the stuff downstairs but it stays upstairs. That’s frustrating. That’s no excuse to hit. Use your words and not your hands.” and then walk away or accept the apology and move on. Repeat ad naseum. I think it works… it seems like my almost 5 year old is hitting less and having fewer flare ups, but I wonder how much of that is just aging and maturing and how much is my parenting. Eh.
AwayEmily says
Good points. Big picture, I’m not super worried. He doesn’t hit or act aggressively at school, he clearly feels bad about it after it happens, and I truly think he will grow out of it. To some extent this is about finding a strategy that works for ME so I don’t feel like I’m improvising each time. I like your approach/script a lot.
Anon says
If I recall Lansbury, the idea is that “I won’t let you hit me” (with follow through). It’s the adult’s responsibility to shut that down (with the walk away, etc.).
I think it’s okay for kids to learn how other human beings, including mom, typically respond to being hit though.
Anonymous says
I think just a firm “no hitting” might be best? I also find it hard to be consistent: not ignoring. It not overly harsh, especially with something that’s a trigger. You’re a good mom.
Anonymous says
Oh yeh definitely “no hitting”. For my almost 3yo I’ll do more of a “I know you’re mad, you can’t hit me”. But my 5yo girl still hits occasionally and I say no hitting, if it’s hard or she tries to kick then she gets a time out.
AwayEmily says
thanks all, this has given me a lot to think about (and thanks also for the implicit reassurance that it is normal — my oldest does not really have a temper so this is all new territory for me). It’s hard for me to strike the right balance between calling out unacceptable behavior while also not giving them so much attention for it that then they do it again.
anonM says
My kids also seem to get the message when I tell them “ow, that hurt, and now I don’t want to play” or “seems like you aren’t ready to be a big helper today” and leave whatever we were doing. It is a natural consequence of hitting that people don’t want to play with you. And, it doesn’t involve yelling. (I’m not saying I do this/don’t yell every time, but in my patient moods I can do this more successfully and it seems to curb it.) Also, I can’t always tell the reason when this seemingly randomly becomes an issue, but you are certainly not alone in that!
AwayEmily says
I like this. Thanks. And yeah, sometimes I’m able to be patient but other times I’m just like “WHAT ARE YOU DOING, STOP RIGHT NOW!” Daycare was just closed for two weeks, which really sapped my reserve of patience.
Anonymous says
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a harsh word when a child is physically violent. “WHAT ARE YOU DOING, STOP RIGHT NOW!” is an appropriate, proportional reaction to being hit that is focused on stopping the behavior. If you continued yelling and berating him after this initial reaction that would be a problem, but that’s not what you describe.
Pogo says
If you can’t keep your body calm/if you can’t be safe, you need to go to time out.
My 5yo has big reactions, including hitting. I feel you.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Yes, same with my 6 year old. My younger one “hits” but my reaction to him is different than with my oldest, so it’s also kid dependent. Younger one gets his hand held and I calmly say “we don’t hit” (Lansbury would say not to say “we” but whatever). He reacts less in general and I’m able to be calmer with him. My older one gets sent to his room, usually with a parent, because for him, he needs to really calm his body in a quiet place. This is definitely a challenge for us though.
Anonanonanon says
I think I’m stricter than most here so take it with a grain of salt. The hitting really triggers me as well and it is not OK.
I say “I understand you’re mad but I cannot let you hit me. Hitting is not OK and we are going to time out” and we do a timeout (cool down, whatever you want to call it) then when the timer goes off I explain again that hurting people when we’re mad is never OK, ask for an apology, reiterate that hitting is an immediate time out, hug, and move on.
Anonymous says
I’m the mom from yesterday who needs a break. I’ll definitely ask the nanny (she’s been out sick). But talk to me about sleepaway camp. The 5 year old isn’t really the one I’m trying to get a break from but the 17 month olds will be 5 someday, right? :) We live in Texas, but I would obviously drive for this experience. My exposure to camp is limited to baptist summer camp and I’m not really looking to recreate that whole experience. What sleepaway camps do you use or have you attended?
Anon says
The traditional outdoorsy, lakeside camp is more of a northeast thing, I think. Outside of the northeast I think it’s only really common for Jewish Americans. I’m in the Midwest and our kids go to a Jewish camp in Michigan. Other Jewish kids in our city go to a different camp. None of their non-Jewish friends go to traditional outdoorsy camp. Some kids go to sleepaway camps for specialized sports, arts or academic interests, but that’s more of a pre-teen/teen thing than an elementary age thing. Fwiw, our camp doesn’t accept children below 3rd grade (who are normally 8) and I was really surprised to hear that people think sending 5 year olds to sleepaway camp is normal. Most people I know weren’t even doing friend sleepovers at age 5, only with family/close family friends.
Anonymous says
I would say this is not true? I grew up in the Midwest and went to non-Jewish sleepaway camp in Minnesota, where there are a decent number of options.
Anon says
I grew up in the Midwest going to an outdoorsy lakeside camp that still exists and I’m sure there were many more than just that one. In Northern CA where I live now there are a number of outdoorsy lake overnight camps. (And we are not Jewish, which I only say to counter the point that it’s only a Jewish thing).
Anon says
I don’t think it’s *only* a Jewish thing, but it definitely seems much more common in Jewish communities, especially outside of the northeast. We don’t really know anyone locally who sends their kids to sleepaway camp who isn’t Jewish.
Pogo says
In the Northeast, and I agree it’s not *only* a Jewish thing but pretty much every Jewish kid I knew growing up went to sleepaway camp.
OP says
Mind if I ask where you live? I’d like to move to Northern California but we’re struggling to find good schools.
Anon says
I live in the Lamorinda area of the Bay Area. (Which is what everyone calls the combined towns of Lafayette + Moraga + Orinda). Schools are generally good here and it’s lovely. (Price points reflect all this, as I’m sure you are aware).
If you haven’t already checked it out and want to go down the rabbit hole, the website Berkeley Parents Network should have a ton of parent thoughts on schools in the Bay Area. Mostly East Bay focused, but you can find tidbits on other areas too.
Good luck!
NY says
+1. I also did not know that sleepaway camps take 5 year olds. I *think* someone from my daughter’s class went to sleepaway camp in North Carolina for a week after 2nd grade, but that is the youngest I have heard.
Aunt Jamesina says
I went to a YMCA camp for one or two weeks each supper growing up in the Midwest, and it was awesome. Not too pricey (I don’t think) and it had loads of the typical summer camp activities. I don’t remember there being any sort of religious instruction aside from a generic grace being said before meals.
OP says
Good idea! I keep forgetting about the Y but I need to join.
Spirograph says
It probably depends on the camp somewhat, but the one grew up with in the midwest had a daily “devotion” that was ~10 min (usually something like reading The Giving Tree, not a bible study). There was a Candlelight Ceremony the last night of camp where everyone went to a little grove in the woods, listened to the camp director give a short inspirational talk, and then lit a candle off of one of the colored candles that symbolized the area of personal growth they wanted to focus on for the next year. Red was friendship, blue was faith, that sort of thing. The white candle was the “Jesus” candle and represented all the other colors. Then everyone stood in a big circle out in a field and someone played Taps on a trumpet. It was certainly Christian flavored, but there was no direct religious instruction.
anon says
You have some Very Fancy summer camps in TX. I was a counselor at an all girls camp in North Carolina. The girls were mostly very sweet and they had a wonderful time. All of them were white, wealthy, and Southern
Anon says
I went to a Hindu religious camp which started for kids in ~1st grade or so and went up to HS. It was 1 week. Major Texas city. Throwing this out there not for you per se but to let you know if you’re in one of the big cities there should be plenty of options.
Spirograph says
I would check with your local YMCA, they have affiliated sleepaway camps all over the country, I think. They start as young as 6 for just a couple nights but the traditional week-long camps usually start at 8. I attended or worked at YMCA camps from elementary through college, and also attended an Arts camp one year when I was in middle school. It was OK, but I liked the outdoorsy YMCA one better. My church had sleepaway camp starting in late elementary school that was in the woods with a pool, plus bible songs :) I also did a really cool live-aboard sailing & scuba camp as a HS graduation gift, and that program (Action Quest) has camps for ages 12 and up. If your kids get into any particular sport or activity, there are camps for all of them if you are willing to travel.
Anonymous says
I am the one who suggested summer camp. My daughter started at Girl Scout camp, which has programs for kids as young as 5. Girl Scout camp is very inexpensive but the quality can vary. Most councils will have a camp open house during registration season that lets you view the facilities and meet the staff. It helps if they’ve been to troop camp or an outdoor day camp before and have some idea of what to expect. YMCA and church camps are other less expensive options that offer short sessions.
I would never force a child under age 8 or so to attend camp if they weren’t enthusiastic about it. We started with a one-week session at age 6 and did two nonconsecutive weeks at age 7. For slightly older kids, two weeks is a good length for the first camp session because with a one-week session it’s over by the time they’ve had a chance to settle in. Some kids will do better attending camp with a friend, but going alone can be even more fun because they are more likely to develop close friendships with other campers.
Momofthree says
I have a friend who’s sending her 6 year old to a 1 week sleep away camp this summer (she’ll be 7 in the fall). I don’t know if this is the camp or not, but a quick google search reveals there are indeed camps that start at ~ 5/6 http://www.campwayfarer .com/
An.On. says
Five definitely seems young to me for a sleepaway camp, but I second Midwest outdoorsy kind of camps. When I was younger I did a horse/ranch sleepaway camp, but that’s for campers 8-15, and even the local camp’s “Try Camp” 3 day-2 night session is for ages 7-10. I would absolutely recommend it though, and it helps if you can find a friend for your kid(s) to go with, to help stave off homesickness. Even if five is too young for sleepaway though, a lot of them do day programs for younger kids.
Anon says
No advice on camps – but my husband and I have twins, and we have “invested” in quarterly weekend getaways. I use that word very deliberately. Our marriage not in a great spot when the twins were 18 months, mostly due to both of us feeling like we were giving our all, and the other spouse wasn’t appreciating all the other was doing. Our first weekend away we spent most of the first day in very productive fights, but by day 2, we were back to ourselves. We’ve since scheduled these overnights quarterly. Pre really good nanny, we used to book a sitter from like noon to 8 and got couples’ massages, then a
The nanny stays overnight (and sometimes our oldest goes on a sleepover). We pay pretty dearly for it, but we stay local so the travel and planning is minimal. It’s lovely.
I also do a lot of solo parenting when my husband travels, and I almost always book a sitter to come an hour before dinner and stay until after bedtime once a week WHILE he is gone, and then usually have a sitter for the night after he returns (our biggest fight night – we both need a break). I’ve spent more on childcare than anything else (maybe my law degree and our house? but I’m afraid to add it up) since the twins came, but I remind myself always that it’s temporary, and the investment has helped our family stay happy – not just in survival mode. good luck :)
Anonymous says
My kid is actually away at camp right now for the first time since 2019, and my husband and I spent the first week having so many productive arguments. It was exhausting but long overdue.
Anon says
I’m in a close-in Atlanta suburb, and traditional, outdoorsy summer camps are very popular among upper middle class families. Most kids here go to camp in North Georgia or NC. Probably too far for you, but wanted to chime in that these camps aren’t just in the Northeast. My kiddo went for a week at 6 as a rising first-grader. We didn’t push him to go at all, and he loved it. It took me a minute to wrap my head around the cost, but I’m really glad he gets the experience every year.
Anon says
Thoughts on daycare expenses and career planning – I’ve caught the baby fever bug. I have a preschooler now, she’ll be in Kindergaden in 3 years. DH and I have been discussing trying for a second.
Something I’m curious for anecdotal opinion, what is a reasonable amount of take home pay to be spending on daycare for 2 kids? Our HHI is around 200k pre-tax. A second would mean about a third of our take home pay would be going to daycare. Is this ballpark similar to what other people budget for? I should add, I do really appreciate our daycare center and I feel like the value of care is justified to the expense. If anything I just wish the teachers were paid more.
It also doesn’t help that I’m in a job where I am ready to move on to a new company, but feel like I should stick with my current employer until I have a second kid for the fully paid 12 weeks of leave and the robust health care plan. Along with the high amount of flexibility I have in my current role. I very much feel like I’m in a “hurry up and wait” situation.
Lucky me, I do not have working mom friends in my life. So I really appreciate the advice and input shared on this board.
OP says
*Kindergarten – I promise I’m a competent person.
Anon says
I think spending a third of take home income on daycare is pretty normal when you have two kids in daycare at the same time.
anon says
Our pre-tax HHI is 170k and we pay 1400 a month for one infant in full time daycare. Our monthly take home pay is approximately 8500 a month after taxes and other contributions.
Boston Legal Eagle says
We paid around $3,600/mo. for daycare for 2 in our HCOL area. That was a little more than our monthly housing expenses, including mortgage, taxes and insurance. Combined, those two expenses were around 50-60% of our take home pay (post tax). Somewhere around 30% of pre-tax I think. So in line with what you’re saying. The daycare years are expensive, no doubt about it! But it’s not like we were travelling or paying for fancy hobbies in those years anyway. And we still saved the max for retirement, 529s, emergency funds, etc. so I was comfortable with it. A daycare that you love is worth it.
As for the job, I’m sure you know that baby making can take longer (or shorter!) than you expect, so not to put your life on hold. But if you don’t hate your current job, it might be worth sticking around for now for the benefits and flexibility.
Anne-on says
So your kid is now 2ish? We’re in a HCOL area (Boston burbs) and our daycare expenses at the time were easily 20% of our (then) takehome pay. I know plenty of parents who intentionally spaced kids so the 2nd happened when the first was in pre-K (so started trying around 3ish). I also knew plenty who didn’t or couldn’t wait that long as they were already in their late 30s and made it work – it was simply that they didn’t save much beyond the company match for retirement during the daycare years.
Anecdotally, if you’re in a big multinational I wouldn’t say 12 weeks fully paid is that great. FAANGs/Big4/Law firms/Consulting firms seem to be offering between 5-6 months or more fully paid. Benefits vary quite a lot between my working mom friends (Amazon is pretty meh, Google is great, IBM is middle of the road, etc.) so I don’t think it’d hurt to look around!
OP says
Thanks for the input! You’re right. Kiddo is a little over 2 and a half. With her fall birthday, we’ll be looking at private daycare/preschool for our area until she’s closer to 6.
Thanks for the input on looking around. It’s funny how it’s easy to be brainwashed that 12 weeks paid is good (sigh). I’m in a STEM career now, so I’ll take a closer look into other companies and their benefits.
Anne-on says
Fwiw, I work adjacent to STEM and every single working mom/woman I know looked around during the ‘great resignation’ and found out that they were being WAY underpaid in their current roles (even the partner level folks). Companies are desperate for mid career STEM/tech women and they were able to play multiple offers against one another. I’d start by working your network and asking around about openings/pay. After that experience nearly every woman I asked was candid (privately) about how much their pay increased, how they negotiated, and what they’d consider ‘market’ salary.
Pogo says
STEM field here. Yes yes and yes. You should been aiming for at least 4-5mos paid leave (the big tech companies all offer 6). And you are probably being underpaid – I was.
Anonymous says
Not in STEM, but will offer that “already pregnant” can be a good position from which to take a new job, if you want to start trying and looking simultaneously. I recently started a new gig something like 6.5 months pregnant and was able to negotiate myself a leave with which I’m very happy (a little less money/a little more time than I would have gotten from the old place). It won’t work for everyone, but since you’re already somewhere OK, you have very little to lose by looking around and seeing how you can do elsewhere–worst case scenario you stay in your current job, which you’re planning to do anyway.
Anon says
NYC suburbs. $4,500 a month for two kids in daycare (toddler and infant). It’s still cheaper than a nanny for us.
AwayEmily says
We also make about 200k a year and live in a LCOL area. Daycare for two kids is $28,500 per year.
HSAL says
When I worked and we had three in daycare, it was about a third of our net income. Now part-time preschool for two is about 10% of our net income. I look forward to feeling rich when they go to K next fall.
Pogo says
I think we probably spend a little over $30K/year on daycare + preschool + PT nanny for a toddler and a preschooler. FYI, as I learned on this board – don’t count on a massive decrease in spending when kiddo hits kinder; you still need to pay for before/aftercare OR PT nanny OR FT private school + camps+ vacation week care + random “professional development” days etc. You spend less than having an infant in full time daycare, but not anything close to $0.
Momofthree says
We have a nanny for 3 kids (two of whom are in school). She is almost double the cost of our mortgage and ~30% of our net pay (not gross). It’s been absolutely worth it for us.
As others have said, costs will go down once they are in school, although they won’t go to 0.
anon says
I wish daycare was subsidized so this didn’t need to be so, but for me, I’m willing to pay pretty much anything I can afford in order to ensure that my children are in a super high quality program.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
I don’t know what I’m looking for – this is a vent. I’ve had really low lows the last few years, and I’m not there but I’m just…tired.
The last few months:
– Uvalde, Roe, just all of it.
– DH has been on multiple work trips – I have ample help but it’s still tiring to play cruise director
– I’ve had to navigate the whole neuro/EI/private therapy for DS #2 plus my anxiety spiral (the latter is my deal and something I have to always be aware of, yes I’m on a SSRI and monthly therapy)
– DS #1 has been increasingly needy and clingy – like this morning he was talking about what I’d pack in his lunchbox one day and when I responded “I think IF I pack your lunch it would be healthy” and he burst into tears and told me I hurt his feelings, he’s also been climbing into our bed early in the AM because he feels lonely…
– I love my big job but my boss tends to get on the hamster wheel and I’m tired of walking her off the ledge about how X team member doesn’t respect her, or that no one cares about the work except her, etc.
– DH was COVID+ after one of these work trips, thankfully no one else got it, but we had almost a week of everyone at home and then the running around of testing to get kids back to school
– All PTO I’ve taken has been for kid stuff – doctor appointments, life admin, etc.
– I’ve had 3 bouts of GI stuff. It’s resolved quickly each time but sucks. I’m someone who usually does not have to deal with this, so it’s not a great development.
– My workout routine has completely fallen to the wayside, and I feel gross – hoping to fix this today
I have no vacation in sight right now – we are planning a trip later this year but it will be a long-haul international flight for a family trip for a happy family occasion but won’t be relaxing. And honestly, I could easily plan something for myself but I’m just tired and don’t feel like coordinating logistics.
This weekend I’m sending the kids to my parents’ house for Sat afternoon-Sunday late afternoon, which will help (and they’ve been wanting it, too). Happy to take any suggestions to help me feel refreshed. I do get downtime/alone time but have spent that time reading/resting. I have a PTO day on my birthday, mid-week in a few weeks which will include a massage.
Anon says
Take your username to heart and sleep! :) But seriously, more sleep is always the cure to this kind of feeling for me.
Anonymous says
Tell your husband you need a family vacation within 4 weeks and you want him to figure it out and book it.
OP says
We’ve talked about an annual trip for sure – but the immediate short term is not the time.
Anonymous says
Ok but why not. Because it is very clearly what you need.
OP says
DH has work travel, I’m saving PTO for the longer trip later this year (It’s international so will need at least 2 full weeks), we’re navigating the start of PT for DS #2 and I’m not sure if it’ll be a few sessions or longer term.
I may be able to tag along to DH’s work travel at the end of August and work remotely from a resort for a few days. Not a vacation per se but would definitely be a change of scenery.
Anne-on says
I’d find a local hotel for a Friday-Saturday stay. Take a Friday off, let your husband handle the kids. Take yourself to get a leisurely coffee/meal, check in, browse a shop/bookstore, take an afternoon nap. Order takeout and eat it in bed, in a robe. Sleep in the next morning and then plan to come back home around 4:30/5pm – late enough to do the 1950’s dad ‘honey I’m home, what’s for dinner?’ thing and let your husband do the nighttime routine.
Also, hugs. We’re also on the private therapy/OT/evals train and it is HARD and eats a significant amount of brain power to coordinate it all. I had a good long (slightly teary) vent session with a friend going through the same thing over wine and dinner which was incredibly lovely and cathartic. I know it’s hard when your kids are bigger and you don’t want to share their private medical details but it might help to find a friend who you can trust to talk about this with.
OP says
I’ve floated this idea to DH and he’s 100% onboard. I think this may be my “birthday present” later in my birthday month. I just wasn’t sure how I’d spend the time but I like how you’ve outlined this.
Thank you for the kind words. DS #1 is 18 months and its mostly focused on the fact that he’s not 100% walking on his own yet…this has made me appreciate this piece of parenting in a way I didn’t before.
anon says
I did this exact thing for my birthday last year and it was glorious. It was the first time I was away from my pandemic baby, but dad was fine. I for once felt rested even if it only lasted a week :)
Anonymous says
+1, I did this last August at a hotel with a pool, and it was so nice! I actually read a fluffy book! I got 9 hours of sleep!
Mary Moo Cow says
I would book a workout (reserve your spot, put it on your calendar, etc.) and try to book a meet up with a friend. This would get at your workout woes and allow you to vent to someone/see someone other than your immediate family. I would also pick just one other thing and use the rest of the time to be unscheduled. When my kids have a sleepover, I like to ignore my DH and purge. I can spend hours purging a closet and be totally happy and refreshed. Maybe it’s watching a movie that no one else wants to see or just lying on the floor staring at the ceiling in a totally quiet house, but just let part of each day unfold.
DLC says
+1 to time with a good friend. I wouldn’t call myself social, but connecting with my favorite people outside of my family definitely recharges me, even if it’s just a phone date.
Anon says
I’ve started banishing the child and husband upstairs nightly for bath time (thankfully at 5 she can be mostly unsupervised for the soaking part and just needs supervision with the scrubbing and hair washing and the convincing her to actually get into the bathtub). And then I sit in the dark and silence alone for 30 minutes in my home office. Sometimes I browse on my phone, sometimes I just stare into space, but I need the cool, dark, quiet space time to just ground (yes, I am an introvert) before heading up to do bedtime and whatever else I intend to accomplish post-bedtime. It has really helped me feel more present and connected to my family in the evening.
Separately, my self-care for my crazy exhausted for reasons outside my control life includes prioritizing sleep (even if it means things don’t get done when I would otherwise like them to), leaning in to the morning cuddles with my clingy kid, and as annoying as my current physical therapy is, when I finally get discharged I think I will make an appointment for a personal trainer and focus on strength, because I have discovered I like strength training (despite detesting cardio) and I am a naturally strong person so it plays into my strengths but I will never do it on my own without someone standing over me and walking me through.
Anon says
I’ve been there – when it feels like if you stop swimming you drown and everything will fall apart, but you’re just SOOO TIRED … My solution has been to lean way, way back and work for a week or so. Working in an office? Take a long lunch break and go for a walk. Working from home? Sit on a deck and read a book. Take a nap. Men do it all the time – they call it ‘golf.’ Trust me, no one will notice (unless you’re a lawyer getting ready for a trial or something.) When the family is in a high-needs phase and all of my personal time is devoted to meeting their needs, the only time I can carve out for myself is at work, so I throw in a yoga class here and there, a mid-day trip to the library, grocery shopping on a weekday …
Pogo says
Block your calendar to work out. Guard it fiercely. I know, you feel too busy, but you will always feel too busy unless you do it.
Your boss sounds like a real bummer. If you think she’s going to be around awhile, I’d look for a move internally so that you don’t have to deal w/ that anymore.
Hugs. We’ve all been there.
OP says
I’m being groomed to be her replacement, including with some $$$ certifications, as she’s mentioned many times that she wants to lean out or step back from the workforce in the coming year(s)…so trying to get through the certifications before making any assessments.
Blocked my calendar at 2:30 PM – I am leaving early to pick up the kids and get back early in time for PT.
Thank you <3 I think of you often as we both have two boys of similar ages.
Anon says
I think you should look for a new job! There are other good jobs out there that will have better bosses. Of all these things, that seems like the one background irritation that’s not going to get better with time and will probably grow into something that’s no longer a background irritation.
Anonymous says
Does anyone have a recommendation for a toddler lunch box (for my 1 year old in daycare)? I’m open to styles, but the bento boxes look fun (only if functional).
AIMS says
We had an ObieBox bento for my then-2 year old and it was/is fantastic. It’s a little heavy because it has a thermos for hot food but it’s removable. Great for the age when my son just wanted meatballs or whatever. It’s held up well over the years and would be good for school lunch when they just want sandwiches.
That said, at 1 I think you could also do a bunch of little containers and a hot thermos because they are not really eating lunch in one sitting yet. A lot of the kids that started in our nursery younger did that. TJ Maxx and Homegoods have a lot of good little containers that are easy to clean and label.
Anonymous says
+1 we used ours for about 3 years and it looked new at the end. Only stopped bc kid entered a school that provided food.
FP says
We have BentGo kid boxes and like them. They are on Amazon Prime sale today.
Pogo says
+1 we have 4 of these! It makes lunch packing so easy.
Anonymous says
We use Easy Lunchboxes for our 1 year old. YummyToddlerFooddotcom has a nice rundown of lunchbox options
Anonymous says
I like Easy Lunchboxes for anything that isn’t runny. They are easy for kids to open and are good for lazy kids who won’t bother to eat if they have to open multiple containers.
AwayEmily says
We have had a lot of different ones. My reviews:
– Bentgo is exactly the right size for toddlers, but we’ve had two and on both the latch broke in less than a year. But maybe we just got some bad ones.
– YumBox Original is great for preschool-age. You can put the internal part in the dishwasher, but not the outside part (we did by accident and it got all bent)
– Munchkin bento box has been our favorite so far. You can put all 3 parts in the dishwasher, and it’s held up great. Maybe a bit big for a toddler, though.
But at 1 we just sent food in little containers (Ziploc Mini Square)
Anonymous says
OP here. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to give advice!!
Anon says
I know this is a general question, but tips on getting kids to be less spoiled? We’re seeing a lot of very spoiled behavior from my 4 year old lately. I know 4 year olds are supposed to be self-centered, but it seems out of step even for her age. We don’t give into demands and whining, but it seems like we should be doing more to nip this behavior in the bud. But I’m not sure what.
AIMS says
Can you give some examples?
Is she demanding things? Throwing tantrums?
Anon says
Yes, basically a combination of demanding and then not throwing a fit when she didn’t get her way. A lot of it is demanding toys and not taking no for an answer when we say we’re not getting a toy.
Some recent examples – On the plane home from a recent trip, the flight attendant gave her one of those sliding square puzzles and she messed it up and none of us could figure out how to get it back to the original state (that $hit is hard!), so she demanded a new one. We told her she wasn’t allowed to ask the flight attendant for a replacement, and she threw a tantrum. My parents recently showed up at our house and she greeted them by saying “Hi, what toys did you bring me!?” She never says thank you unprompted for gifts, we always have to remind her to thank people. She also throws tantrums when she doesn’t win board and card games.
AIMS says
I think you just stick to what you’re doing. Reminding a 4 year old to thank people is normal!
Honestly, I am probably lacking as a parent in a lot of ways but the one thing I think I’m pretty good about is not having kids that demand toys/gifts/treats/etc., and it’s because I am very firm that just because we pass a toy store doesn’t mean you get to go in and if we go in, you get to pick one thing only. My kids also went thru the obnoxious demanding phase with grandparents and I just told the grandparents that we were not doing gifts/treats for a while and explained why (it was especially problematic because they were coming weekly). When my oldest kid asked why I told her the truth – she shouldn’t be expecting that every time, the special thing is the visit itself. She was surly at first but got over it. I think it’s easy to get frustrated but if you stick to your “rules,” it will all pass.
Anonymous says
Those sound extremely normal for 4. Especially for travel, visitors, or other dysregulating situations. I think you stay the course and it will improve over a period of years.
Anonymous says
This sounds like normal preschool big feelings to me, for the most part. 4 year olds want the world to conform to their desires (well, we all do), but then they have trouble dealing with the inevitable disappointments when it doesn’t. The tantrum is because she didn’t get the outcome she wanted, not necessarily because she didn’t get the material THING she wanted. I would focus on trying to create opportunities for her to be of service (chores) and be generous (giving/making gifts) so she can learn how fulfilling it is to do things for other people. If you aren’t giving in to her tantrums or saying yes to all of her demands, she’s probably not really spoiled.
Anonymous says
Nah you shouldn’t. This is normal.
anonM says
Apparently, I’m the most Hunt Gather Parent-obsessed person here, but as a result of the book, I’m starting to realize that when DS is acting especially selfish it is when he needs to do MORE to help the family. Slowly, very slowly, we are seeing progress on this. Still has bad days, but overall the 4yo is doing less whining. This behavior really grates on me, too. Solidarity!
Anon says
I have this on hold at the library, looking forward to reading it. We definitely need to more with respect to chores at home.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
OP is describing my DS #1 (4.5) to a tee. I’m putting this on hold at the library today. I’m not someone who would subscribe to one parenting philosophy above others but I’m sure there are kernels I can glean from this book!
anonM says
Yessss virtual book club. No, I don’t subscribe to everything she discusses, but it did make me and DH re-evaluate how we do things for the household/kids and how much more we could encourage helping. That part has been solid.
Mary Moo Cow says
My kids went through a similar phase of “what did you bring me?!” whenever they say grandparents, and I, too, worried they were spoiled and we were doomed. They’ve matured out of it (one is now 7 and one is close to 5). We read “Berenstain Bears Get the Gimmies” over and over to the youngest. For both, we make them write thank you notes for birthday and Christmas gifts, really emphasize how nice it is to be thanked when giving a gift/how much we appreciate hearing a thank you for even a small surprise treat, and do regular purging of stuff so that the remaining stuff really is used. Over time, they really understood that DH and I weren’t going to give them a replacement toy/art supply/thing that they broke or discarded because it wasn’t perfect. Best lesson I couldn’t teach: as soon as a friend spotted DD at friend’s birthday party, friend snatched the present out of DD’s hands and ran away. Didn’t even say “hi” or “thanks.” DD was so surprised and looked at me and after a minute said, “well, that was rude.” This is the moment she really started to say thanks and not mind writing thank you notes.
Anonymous says
Along the same lines, everyone in our family writes thank-you notes, and receiving thank-yous from grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins has a big impact.
Anne-on says
I think from the ‘where do you live’ post the other day a number of us are in the New England area. We’re already looking at presidents week travel for 2023 (because this summer’s insanity has taught me to plan WAY ahead). Where would you go for guaranteed swimming in mid-Feb. with no more than a 4-5 hour direct flight in the US? We’ve done Orlando and the parks so I’m not itching to go back but if that’s my best option so be it. It’ll be 1 kid, 10, who wants ‘fun pools’ (waterslides/lazy river at least) and ideally something interesting to do outside of the hotel (I refuse to do Disney but can be convinced to do Universal is Orlando is really my best bet for good weather).
Anonymous says
I mean literally only Florida. In February it’s your only option in the US. I would do Disney personally. I’d stay at a hotel with a great pool and plan one day at each park and 2 water park days.
NYCer says
Not from New England, but I think that the only place you are (mostly) guaranteed to have swimming weather in mid-Fed in the US is in south Florida. Miami or the Florida Keys would be your best bet. You could consider USVI or Puerto Rico if you’re open to that (no passports required).
Anon says
Yeah, in February Florida is your only option for guaranteed swimming weather in the continental United States. I think Puerto Rico would be a good bet, you can probably get non-stops there from BOS. Miami has nice beaches and I’m sure you can find a hotel there with a lazy river, but I don’t think of it as having a ton of stuff to do for a kid that age.
Anonymous says
It sounds like what your kids want is an indoor water park.
Anon says
I was just going to ask if it needed to be outdoors. I have heard lovely things about Kalahari in Pennsylvania.
Anne-on says
We’ve done the indoor water park thing and it was ok, but really by mid-Feb. in a New England winter I just need some blue skies and sunshine, even if it ‘only’ gets up to 70!
Anon says
I get it. Midwest here and at that time of year I’d much rather be walking around in 65 degree weather in Arizona or Florida than at an indoor waterpark.
Anonymous says
I think you want the Caribbean, then.
Anon says
South Florida is fine for swimming in February. The locals avoid it because they consider anything below 70 degrees “winter” but anyone coming from the Midwest or New England is not going to have any issue swimming in Miami or the Florida Keys in the winter.
Anon says
I’m taking my daughter to Legoland near Orlando that week for her birthday. Based on what I’ve read online, it seems like even Orlando may be iffy for swimming at that time of year. I think you really have to go to south Florida if you want to be assured of swimming in mid-February.
Anon says
+1
Anonymous says
+2. I was in Orlando in January once and it was below freezing.
Anon says
Wisconsin Dells. Like Vegas for waterparks. Most have winter / indoor components.
Anon says
OP can probably find an indoor waterpark much closer to home that’s just as good. Usually you just go to the park at the resort you’re staying at, so you don’t really need dozens of options. A lot of the big names in the Dells like Kalahari have parks on the east coast too.
Anonymous says
Yes I think you need to go to Naples or somewhere very south Florida. Even then, they could get a chilly snap in February.
Anonymous says
I agree with this. I go to Naples a lot to visit my parents in Feb, and I have really bad luck with the weather during that month. I’d say you have to do Caribbean to be guaranteed swimming weather.
Anonymous says
In addition to Florida, is southern Arizona be feasible? Phoenix has a ton of fancy hotel pools, and Tuscon is a really interesting city. I think the flight is closer to 6 hours though.
If I were forced to go to FL, I would look at Miami or the Keys, but I spent my miserable teen years in SW FL and basically never want to go back. The Keys may not offer direct flights though.
Anonymous says
PS – even in FL you will probably want a heated pool in Feb.
NYCer says
Phoenix can be surprisingly chilly in the winter, especially in the morning and evening. I just checked out of curiosity, and the average high and low temps in Phoenix in February are 72 and 48. Tucson is even chillier. Beautiful weather for winter, no doubt, but I wouldn’t bank on it being swimmable.
Anon says
Confirmed. My parents’ pool in Phoenix, even with the solar heat, is usually only at 75 by early March. And 75 degrees sounds like a warm pool until you jump into it and odds are the air temperature is less than that (I mean, it’s better than no pool and far better than DC weather, but you need to be committed and the sun needs to be shining). The professionally heated community pool in early March is tolerable but wrapping up in a towel and going home is quite chilly.
Anon says
A bunch of resorts in Scottsdale heat their pools to 80+ degrees, or at least claim they do. We’re going in January and specifically looked for a place with a heated pool in hopes of swimming. I don’t think it’s guaranteed we’ll be able to swim, but I’d be surprised if my kid doesn’t go in the pool. Probably depends on the kid though.
Anonymous says
I went to Scottsdale in March and it was way way way too cold to swim. Highs In the low 70s as an absolute max which means most of the day much cooler. It was a bad trip. There is nothing to do in Scottsdale
Anon says
That’s funny, there’s so much stuff I want to do in the Phoenix-Scottsdale area I’m not sure how I’m going to pack it into a three day weekend! Desert Botanical Garden, the Railroad Park, Arizona Science Center, hiking, etc. We are going there for family reasons, but I’m actually pretty excited about it. We were originally thinking we would try to drive to Sedona, but it seems like there’s more than enough in the Phoenix metro area to keep us occupied. And if the temperature is above 50, I will be happy because it will be much, much warmer than home.
Anon says
(Also if it’s above 65 outside and the pool is heated, I’m pretty confident my kid will get in the pool at some point. But again, kid dependent for sure. Mine seems to consider anything above 60 degrees summer.)
Bostonian says
Puerto Rico. Even Ft Lauderdale was a touch cold when we were there in Feb back in 2020. Way better than Boston in Feb, but I’d think about PR or the USVI.
Pogo says
Yeah, I think only Flordia qualifies. I am probably going to book our flights soon as they are already $1000/pp that week.
Otherwise, Jay Peak has an indoor waterpark if you want to do skiing + waterslides. Probably also $1000/pp for that week lol.
anon says
I grew up in Tampa, and February is probably too cold for swimming outdoors. The weather could be sunny and awesome, but it may not be. I think you need to go to Key West (can be hard to get to), PR, or USVI. Or get passports and travel anywhere in the Caribbean.
Anon says
I don’t know what happened to my comment. Apologies if this double-posts!
You could do Tampa/St. Pete/Clearwater. Busch Gardens and Adventure Island in Tampa, beaches in St. Pete and Clearwater, downtown St. Pete/Tampa Riverwalk/Ybor City. I would probably split the time and stay 1/2 on one side of the bay and 1/2 on the other because the traffic can be abysmal.
Anonymous says
Check the weather and water temps – I think it will be a bit chilly there in Feb; Adventure Island is only open March – September. I grew up in Sarasota and we never swam in our unheated pool or the Gulf in Feb. I would go further south, like Miami.
Anonymous says
Low stakes question — I just moved to a suburb and WFH full time. This month, we’ve had 4 different people knock on our door to talk to us about various things — one was canvassing for a candidate, one wanted donations for a school sports team, and two different companies wanted to give us free estimates for siding/windows/roof services. I am going to stop answering the door during business hours because invariably they want to talk for 10 minutes! Is this normal for the suburbs? We never got solicitors when I lived in an English basement in DC.
Anonymous says
It comes in waves. We got a lot of door-to-door salespeople for home improvements at the beginning of the pandemic but haven’t had any in a while. I don’t answer the door, and if they come up to me while I’m in the yard I run them off.
Anon says
4 in one month is a lot but we do get people coming to our door to sell things pretty regularly. I don’t talk for 10 minutes though! I just say “no thanks, we’re not interested” and close the door pretty quickly. I only make an exception for young kids (especially girls) selling something like Girl Scout Cookies, because I remember doing that and it was hard (also I like Girl Scout cookies! lol). But businesses and political stuff, nah I don’t have time for that.
anon says
I don’t think there’s any obligation to answer your door to them or, if you answer, talk to them any longer than it takes to hear that they’re not a neighbor introducing themselves/ a passerby telling you your car lights are on and to say, “we don’t do any business/charitable giving with people coming door to door.”
I would be gentler with a child, though (no obligation to buy, but nicely listen to them for a couple of minutes if you can spare it).
In my community, door-to-door solicitors are required to have a permit, which they rarely do. Community members calling the police non-emergency line to report solicitors without a permit really cut down on the number of door-to-door solicitors.
AwayEmily says
We get maybe one a month. I find that if you give them a specific reason you can’t talk, they usually scamper off pretty quickly.
For me, if they come after 5pm I say “I can’t talk right now, I’m in the middle of getting the kids’ dinner ready.” If they come during the day I say “I can’t talk right now, I’m in the middle of a meeting.”
Anonymous says
I just say “sorry, not interested” and shut the door in their face.
Anonymous says
Yes, unfortunately, especially in an election year. My kid’s at daycare all day, but I leave the “Please don’t knock – it’s naptime” sign up during my workday.
Anonymous says
I do not answer the door for anyone carrying a clipboard, wearing a polo shirt, or towing a wagon.
Anonymous says
Who cares if they want to talk for 10
Minutes? “I’m not interested good bye”. Close door.