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More Sleep Would Be Nice says
For the discussion on boosters yesterday – my 6 year old is 75th percentile in height and and STILL has a few inches until we need to get him out of his Britax Marathon Clicktight FF carseat and into a high-backed booster!
Anon says
Serious question, are first graders who are still in car seats getting mercilessly mocked by their classmates? Car seat norms have completely changed since I was a kid, but kids of that age calling each other babies can’t have changed that much…
Cb says
We make everyone who rides in our car sit in a high-backed booster, even if they wouldn’t do so with their parents but I’m not sure they’d otherwise know.
GCA says
Last year, Kid 1 had a friend who rode in the back of their family car without car seat – this was at the end of 2nd grade. This is the same friend who had no screen time limits. (They were being raised by a grandparent and a single working parent, which maybe had something to do with it…) Even that kid never teased anyone about car seats, and when they were in our car they used a backless booster like many other 2nd graders.
Anonymous says
Wow excuse me how dare you? A of all a second grader just sitting in a car might be perfectly fine and
B of all what is going through your mind when you decide for someone else the way they are parenting their child is bad, and then attribute that to them being a single working parent?!
This board is full of single working parents and we are every bit as good a mothers as married women or women not working outside the home. Do some work on yourself and your prejudices and stop being rude.
Anon says
Unless the second grader is 5’ tall, they are probably not perfectly fine. There are specific criteria for being able to sit with no booster, with height and puberty being the main ones. It is extremely negligent not to properly restrain a child in the car.
Anonymous says
And do you also assume if you’re judging a parent as “extremely negligent” for potentially having a 5 foot tall 8 year old not in a booster that the reason for their “extreme negligence” is being a “single working parent”?!
Anon says
I’d read that more as a grandparent who wasn’t up on current car seat standard and regulations rather than a slight on single parents. I’m sure we were all out of booster seats by second grade, but in my state an 8yo needs to be in a carseat unless they’re >95th percentile for height (above 57″).
Anon says
No. Not the orig commenter but I can see how that sounds. I’m interpreting it as his mother is stretched thin and he’s often under the supervision of a (probably tired) grandma. Per yesterday’s thread, grandmas don’t always abide by car safety
GCA says
11:34, I am judging allowing a small child to ride with no car seat, and frankly here my sympathies are with the child. I do not give a hoot about what other families do with screen time. I’m sorry if the grandparent / single parent comment came across as judgy, but it was meant as context (outdated norms) for why the grandparent might have allowed the child to ride with no car seat.
I’m walking away from this conversation now.
Anonymous says
Oh so you’re just going to insult single moms, imply we can’t be good parents, and then walk away from the conversation? You’re not sorry. Your comment did come across as judgy, it straight up was
This is not a board to be hating on single working parents. It’s unacceptable to do this.
Anon says
I also interpreted it as grandmas being lax about car safety compared to this generation of moms. I think that’s a universal experience – it’s certainly been mine.
Anonymous says
I interpreted it as “busy single working mom is letting clueless old-fashioned grandma drive the kid around,” which is absolutely judgmental about the mom.
Anonymous says
I had a tall second grader who turned 8 three days after school started. She wasn’t in a booster. The seatbelt in our car fit her perfectly.
I have a second grader now who is still in a booster because the seatbelt is still too high on her.
Kids are different.
Also, I’ve never not once ever had a kid complain about boosters in my car. In fact, I had two 10 year olds (neither of which needs a booster) ask if they could sit in them bc my younger kids left them on the seat.
This is adult drama.
Anon says
Lol – single working parent, here. I am not worried about busybodies on the Internet, but GCA you may want to reflect on your words.
Anon says
I would hope you’re up on height restrictions! We’re a tall family, and DD (8) is 5’1″ – she should absolutely NOT be in a booster. I’ve had some issues with parents making comments to the effect that she should be – if they’re too tall, putting them in a booster can be problematic.
Anonymous says
Kids are usually in harnessed high back boosters through end of first grade and seat buckled high back booster through 3rd grade at our school. Most harnessed booster seats look like revalue high back boosters. I usually see no back boosters for 9/10 year olds.
My kids loved their high back boosters because you can rest your head on the side like a wing back chair.
Anony says
In our area it’s not really unusual enough to comment on, but even if it was, I’m not sure it would really be noticed? We didn’t do carpooling at 6 yet, and I don’t feel like the kids were really getting up close to other people’s cars to even see.
Cb says
It’s pretty unusual here, I see lots of low back boosters / kids in the front seat from 5 years old, but no one seems to comment that my son is still riding in a giant car seat.
Anonymous says
A 5-year-old in the front seat is worse than a 5-year-old in a low-back booster!
Anon says
Yeah front seat and backless booster are not equivalent at all! I believe even with NO booster, a child is much safer in the backseat. The front seat is super dangerous for small people.
We started using a backless booster for travel right after my large kid turned 4 (because it is so much more portable than a high back booster), and because it has worked reasonably well we’ll likely just switch her to that when she outgrows her carseat around 5.5-6. But I would never dream of putting her in the front seat.
Anonymous says
Our pediatrician’s rule is back seat until they have their first period (I have no idea about her rule for boys because I only have girls). Something about bone structure. She brings it up during well-child visits so it’s easy to blame her for the fact that they still have to sit in the back seat.
Anon says
Yes, puberty is a big milestone for bone development (that hormone surge strengthens the bones) and is the marker for when kids can stop sitting in booster seats, even if short. That’s why it’s safe for short adults to ride with just a belt.
Anon says
There actually is some guidance that very short adults should use a booster seat. I can’t imagine many people follow it, but it’s out there.
Anon says
Same, my 6 year old has a very active social life, but no one really carpools yet. I think she’s been in a friend’s car twice, and we’ve yet to have anyone in our car. The times she was in a friend’s car she just wore a regular seatbelt, but it was a very short drive on local streets (definitely would not have done that on a highway).
Also this doesn’t seem like something 6-7 year olds would be mean about? I can see them asking “why is so-and-so in a different kind of seat?” but I don’t think teasing someone for being different starts *quite* this young. At least, the first graders I know are still pretty accepting of differences.
Anon says
IME most are in boosters, and my own first grader just switched out of his harness to a HBB a couple months ago. If I child can sit properly 100% of the time (and that’s a big if!) they are just as safe in a booster as a harness. And we were running into issues of the clip being pushed down, etc — there’s a lot of specific fit requirements for harnesses — so he’s actually probably safer in his booster.
I haven’t witnessed or heard about any teasing. Kids of all ages and sizes are in car seats much longer these days (and even a HBB is a type of car seat, optics-wise). Maybe that’s because car pooling is less frequent because of the car seat requirements!
Frankly, I am much more concerned about parents who let their elementary schoolers sit in the front seat or ride without a proper booster (it happens ALL. THE. TIME…and virtually all kids need boosters until at least age 10 /5’ tall), and probably would never let my kids go to their house because of an appalling lack of good judgement.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Not terribly common to comment on, but my then 1st grader’s friends did comment that he was still in a carseat at the time (it was a highback booster with the seatbelt option, but looks like the frame of a carseat). We know kids who got into backless boosters in 1st grade, and others who are still in highback boosters in 2nd grade.
TheElms says
My kids aren’t that old yet, but from friends who have older kids it seems like most kids are in harnessed seats through the end of kindergarten and then move to high back boosters in 1st or sometimes 2nd grade if the kids are petite. I don’t know what happens beyond that. My oldest is a giant so we will likely be forced to move right around the time she is 5. She’s definitely still really wiggly though so I’m a bit worried about it.
Anon says
My first graders are in boosters and will ask why some of their friends are still in carseats, but not in a mean/teasing way, just in a genuinely curious (and are totally happy to accept answers of “so they can use the same seat for friend A and little sibling B” or “she likes it better for long trips”. All the 6yos I know are pretty chill with sitting in harness seats, HBB, or LBB depending on the car/parent/carpooling scenario.
Anon says
Yes, it’s weird to me (a child of the late 90s/early 00s) that kids are in car seats / boosters for so long! I will obviously follow the recommendations for my kiddos, but it still blows my mind a bit! And, confuses me how carpooling or play dates work!
Anon says
Carpooling starts at a much later age than it used to, and play dates don’t usually involving carpooling (one parent drops their kid off at other parent’s house, or the parents meet up at a neutral location).
Anonymous says
Yeah. Because of people who will call you an unfit parent if you let your 9 year old just sit in a car.
Anon says
Knowledge is free and booster seats are $30. No reason not to keep your kid safe other than laziness (particularly among those on this board)
Anon says
Folks here often move boosters between cars to carpool or drop off. It’s not a big deal once they’re no longer in a car seat. The booster just travels with the kid and, in case someone forgets, we have an extra booster in our trunk.
Anon says
Agreed it’s easier once they’re in boosters, but kids stay in car seats much later. As a kid I carpooled beginning in preschool and these days I think it’s unusual before first or second grade because of car seats.
anon says
Yep, what Anon @1:05 said. We have 3 backless boosters so we can take an extra kid in addition to my 6yos. When they ride in a friend’s car, they bring a booster with them if their friend doesn’t have a spare. They’re cheap and easy to carry.
Anon says
My soon to be 6 year old is eagerly awaiting her doctor’s appointment to find out if she’s 49″ and can move into a booster. She was 47.5″ this summer. so she’s probably there but I told her she has to wait until after the doctor’s appointment.
Anon says
If I were you I’d just check her now! She needs to move out before she is 49”…as soon as she hits 49” it’s no longer safe. (And the straps are still coming from above her shoulders? I know my kids outgrew the harness before the official height limit, they must have long torsos)
Anon says
As long as she can sit properly and is over 40lbs, she’s as safe in a booster as in a harnessed seat.
Anon says
And *safer* in a booster if you think she’s already 49”!
Anon says
Why would you make her wait for that? That’s very weird.
Anon says
I just drove vans full of kids for a 5th grade birthday party and girl scout event and the kids self sorted into those who still used boosters and those who didn’t. Every single kid seemed to understand that it’s about height and the shorter kids weren’t quite tall enough yet to ditch the booster. There was zero teasing or even questioning. They all knew the rule. They all accepted the rule. It was a complete non issue.
Frankly, based on this thread, it’s more of an issue for parents than kids. Kids have never know a world where kids didn’t ride in car seats or boosters until they are tall enough to fit the seat belt well.
Anon says
I agree.
Anonymous says
This. I’ve never seen it be an issue with kids.
It is often an economic marker though. Fancy HBB are pricey and I’ve definitely heard judgmental comments about parents with HBB money who let their young kids use LBB. Standard to have a couple spare LBB in your trunk for carpool though.
Anonymous says
Bingo. At a certain point “little Susie was rear-facing until age 8” becomes equivalent to “we don’t allow Barbies or princesses, only play silks in neutral colors” and “my 11-year-old has never seen television and doesn’t even know what a cell phone is.” If you are keeping your child in a certain type of seat well beyond the required age/height/weight, it’s parental virtue-signaling and mommy martyrdom.
Anon says
Slight pushback. The best practice recommendation is to max out the limits of your seat before moving to the next stage. There is room for parental discretion and reasons to move sooner, of course, but you can be a perfectly normal parent and not rush to stick your kid in a booster the day they turn 5 and hit 40 lbs.
Plus, many convertible seats the kids are already using to harness convert to HBB. So it’s actually costing money to get the no-back right away.
And I got a lovely HBB (Chicco Kidfit) for $80 on Black Friday. The back will come off to become a no-back in a year or two, which on its own would be $60. So unless you are buying the Cadillac of car seats, it’s not really a big cost difference.
Anon says
Backless boosters start around $10, so even $80 is a very significant cost difference. And most people need more than several.
Anon says
I read a comment once in a parenting group about how the recent culture of extended rear-facing and extended carseat use is related to fatph0bia, because it’s seen as a flex to have very tiny kids who don’t meet the weight minimums to graduate to the next type of seat. I hadn’t thought of this way and don’t think it’s the full explanation, but I thought it was an interesting point and I do think for some people there’s an element of pride that their kids are so small they can rear-face until 5 or whatever. When my then just-turned-4 year old starting using a booster for travel, we did get some reactions from friends like “but your kid can’t be 40 lbs? she is? woooow, that’s heavy!”
Anonymous says
I don’t buy this. Parents and pediatricians want kids to be large, not small. See, e.g., recent discussions of redshirting and worries about the social and athletic consequences of not being the tallest in the class.
Anon says
I think (and hope!) most parents don’t overtly “want” their kids to be anything size-wise except healthy and within the normal range, and I’m sure it depends on your circles and your own experiences (I have a kid who’s always been 99th percentile height and >90th percentile weight), but I definitely feel like to the extent there’s unconscious bias it’s in favor of petite kids. I also think it’s heavily gendered. I don’t think the big = good for sports thing really applies to girls as much, and our society definitely has a much bigger fixation on women being thin than men.
Anonymous says
I don’t buy this either. Height not weight is the key marker to move up.
Anon says
They are closely correlated though. And moving to a booster seat does have a weight minimum that many 4 year olds don’t reach.
Anonymous says
That’s a weird take. My friends with small kids are often worried about their growth, at least until around 4. Then it’s clear they are just little.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Sidenote, but does anyone watch Yellowstone? Every time that kid (who is what, 7/8?), rides in the front seat I cringe. Is this normal in Montana?!
Anonymous says
On ranches they let 7-year-olds drive the old pickup, I think. My husband’s parents were considered very strict because they made him take a tractor safety course before he was allowed to drive the tractor as a tween on the farm.
Anon says
oh man, I’m the high-back booster OP from yesterday and was not expecting this level of drama today. I would just like to say that I genuinely appreciate people’s help (we bought the Chicco Kid Fit!) but I think we should go ahead and assume that the people reading this blog are making informed decisions based on the guidelines and what works for them. I especially enjoyed the poster yesterday who asked “Is she responsible enough to sit properly upright at all times, including when sleeping?” – Yes, she is the most responsible sleeper you can get!!!!
Anon says
Hahah ;)
Anon says
Tried again after miscarriage and just got the first positive pregnancy test (it’s a faint line a few days before expected period, but it’s there). Not telling anyone in real life for a while because it’s so complicated emotionally but just wanted to post somewhere where I know many get it. Fingers crossed.
Anon says
Congratulations :) You must be all over the place emotionally today. I am also pregnant after a miscarriage (9.5 weeks, and so sick but counting it as a blessing!) It still seems very surreal to me, like I can believe I’m pregnant but am having a hard time wrapping my head around an actual baby.
FWIW I still do think about the baby I lost a lot. I even bought a little bird tree ornament as a private way to remember him (it was very early, but my sister who works in the prenatal genetic research field told me the majority of conceptions, and therefore the majority of early miscarriages, are boys, so that is how I am thinking about it).
Anon says
Congratulations to you as well! That’s so funny about the ornament – I JUST told my husband yesterday I wanted to buy an ornament for the girl we lost. A once-a-year memorial sounds right.
Anon_Two says
Same here! Just found out I‘m pregnant after a miscarriage 4 months ago. I haven‘t even told my husband yet. Fingers crossed everything goes well!
Anon says
Congratulations to you too!!
anon says
33 weeks pregnant after losing a baby at 9 weeks just over a year ago (which was my fifth miscarriage, and the most advanced). I’m only just now letting myself accept that we’re really going to have a baby.
Anon says
Congratulations! I’m currently at home cuddling my 1 month old rainbow baby. Best wishes to you!
AwayEmily says
Can you all provide any tips/guidance for finding a therapist to help us with our 5yo? I don’t think he would qualify for any services, but he’s clearly dealing with some very particular issues around being super self-conscious/sensitive. He’s not particularly reactive or physical, he has no issues in school, his attention is great, he’s just not thrilled with who he is a lot of the time. He comes by this particular issue naturally; his uncle (my brother) was very similar. Ideally what my husband and I would like is one or two sessions with a professional who could teach us some strategies for helping him cope. In your experience is this something health insurance will cover? Should we not even bother, and just pay out of pocket? I am kind of lost as to even where to start.
CC says
My oldest is similar and we’ve had good luck seeing a play therapist. I asked my CASA, who is a therapist, for recommendations but my twin mom group and other elementary school moms have been good resources for finding help too. I did not find anyone who takes insurance so we paid out of pocket.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Just validating that it’s hard to know where to start. FB moms groups have guided me too. Pediatrician might have some recs. If you have your own therapist, he/she may know of a few good child therapists. Insurance is a whole other beast and so far everything has been out of pocket, with maybe an option for out of network reimbursements.
anonM says
My friend would be perfect for this. I took a look at her therapy bio. In the short version it says she’s a family therapist. In the longer version, she explains her years of experience with infants, young children, youth. Her degrees are in social work, and she lists children as a specialty area. The practice is also explicitly inclusive and it states that on the website. Hope that helps you as you look through bios.
Anon says
We reached out to our pediatrician who gave us a referral to someone amazing who see kids through their practice. You might try asking there if you haven’t already.
AwayEmily says
Thanks all! Put on my list to check the parents FB group and talk to the pediatrician.
Fallen says
I am a therapist and my recommendation is to ask other people in FB groups. I think at that age parents should be fairly involved. What state are you in? I may have recommendations depending on the state.
Weaning toddler twins says
Any advice on weaning toddlers, weaning twins, or both? Mine are about to turn two and have shown zero signs of naturally losing interest — the opposite actually seems to be true. They’re both great eaters and on track on the growth charts, so no nutritional concerns. We never switched to scheduled nursing sessions per se and have always been on-demand, although given daycare schedules, it’s tended to be once in the morning, once after pickup, and once before bed, at least on weekdays. On weekends, all bets are off and I’m nursing pretty constantly throughout the day. I think this is extra tricky given the peer pressure/sib bonding factor as well; when one is nursing, the other one tends to toddle over, too. My supply is apparently steady. I’d really love for this to happen at their initiative instead of mine, and I’d be willing to stick with it to allow for that — just looking for some words of wisdom on this process. TIA!
Anonymous says
Nursing is a relationship and it has to work for both you and them so it’s completely fine to set limits.
Best way is to start limiting to bedtime and morning. Keep them busy after pick up. Don’t read to them while nursing etc.
Baby wearing on your back was a great help to me when they wanted post daycare snuggles at that age. Wear one twin for 5-10 mins than the other. I used an oven timer so it wasn’t me that was ending the turn usually after 1-2 turns they wanted a snack or to go play.
Once you’re down to just morning and evening, drop one of those feeds and replace with snuggles and a sippy cup of milk.
AwayEmily says
Definitely ignore this if it isn’t something that would work for your family, but our weaning strategy for all 3 kids was to (1) if possible, drop to 1-2 feedings per day for a week or two and then (1) I leave for 3-5 days, during which their father would present them with special new sippy cups (I scheduled all weanings around work trips). The kids would still remember when I got back, but I could say “sorry, the Mama milk is all gone, but you can drink milk from your special cup now!” and because they had gone without for four days, it wasn’t such a big deal as it would have been if I just cut them off while I was still there.
Anon says
I started the process by being ready with an alternative snack or sippy cup before they asked to nurse. I’d also suggest a fun activity after the snack/meal. My goals was for them to forget to ask to nurse. This strategy got us down to 3-5 asks per week. That cause my supply to dry up and they lost even more interest.
Anonymous says
Start with morning and evening only. You are also a person with value you do not need to spend all weekend nursing a pair of two year olds on demand because they want to.
Anonymous says
“You are also a person with value”—that is something moms so rarely hear.
anon says
As an anecdote, my mom apparently nursed my brother until his was 2 and was so afraid of what would happen when she weaned. One day, she told him, “Mommy has no more milk. You need to drink from a cup.” And he was totally fine and had no issue with it at all, contrary to all her anxiety over it. Then I pumped for my twins, and they absolutely flipped out when we took away their bottles when they turned two. They got over it eventually.
Cb says
The culture shock… I’m from California, raising a kid in Scotland where all schools are religious schools. The churches are empty, but they get the kids in the classroom.
Lessons are getting pretty Jesus-heavy in the run-up to Christmas, leading to questions about the “one true god” that I was unprepared to answer at 7am. He went to school with a post-it note saying “Israel, Gaza, peace” in case they did any praying today.
Any moments of national/regional culture shock for you?
Emma says
Are public schools religious too? I’m in Quebec and for historical reasons, public schools are secular but still named things like Notre-Dame, which definitely wouldn’t fly where I’m from. And virtually all the private schools are religious. Our local public school isn’t great, so we might need to consider private. I went to a fantastic international and secular private school, but that doesn’t seem to be an option here. DH is Jewish so understandably highly uncomfortable with Christian private school, and I’m honestly very uncomfortable with the idea of religious schools in general, so my current plan is to either get kiddo into the magnet public school or move to a better public school zone when she is school-aged, if we don’t relocate before that.
Cb says
Yep, you can be either catholic or Protestant but you have to choose 1. It’s much more pronounced in Northern Ireland but we still get the weekly religious chats and full on nativity etc. I’m assuming you can opt out?
Cb says
I was in Montreal for a conference (loved it, wanted to move, could not hack the winters) and a colleague taught me all the religious swear words.
Emma says
Interesting! Schools here used to be either Catholic or Protestant, but have now been reframed as Anglophone or Francophone (in the public system). There is a general “religion” class that talks about all the religions, although I think you can opt out if you provide proof that your child is enrolled in the religious education of your choice.
Emma says
And I’m with you – love Montreal but the winter is tough, although you do get used to it (somewhat).
Anon says
I grew up in the Midwest but now live in a more culturally southern (close to the Bible Belt) part of the Midwest. They have a moment of silence for prayer in the public schools here, which was a pretty big shock to me.
EP-er says
I hope that you at least had a cup of coffee/tea before having that convo this morning! We have good friends who are both naturalized citizens of the US and their children were born here. Their oldest just started public kindergarten. We just had had really in depth conversation about starting the day with the Pledge of Allegiance. I never questioned it — I personally think that it is a civic ritual that reminds us that no matter where we came from, we are all Americans. We say it at the start of civic meetings, scout meetings, whatever. Their perspective is that it is nationalist indoctrination. It was a fascinating discussion that lead me to really think about the ritual, as well as what is the difference between passing down traditions & indoctrination.
Cb says
My English husband was shocked by the idea! “You don’t really do that?!?” Yep, we do…
Anon says
I’m born and bred American and always thought it was nationalist indoctrination. I’ve never said it anywhere except school and I didn’t like saying it there.
anon says
Same, although I always liked saying it and still do so now at my kids’ assemblies. But I definitely recognize it for what it is.
EP-er says
I never thought about in those terms before — sometimes we can learn from other people’s culture shocks as well as our own.
Anonymous says
I have also thought it was weird since I was a small child.
Anon says
I’m okay with the concept (I agree that a civic ritual is a nice reminder and we should probably focus a little more on civic community) but also I think reciting “I pledge allegiance to the flag” is a little weird.
Anon says
yea it’s a flag, an object!
Anonymous says
It’s a symbol of “the republic for which it stands,” it’s right there in the pledge! It’s debatable whether America actually is a shining city on the hill, but pledging allegiance to the flag as a symbol of democratic ideals America is supposed to stand for (liberty and justice for all, also right there in the pledge) doesn’t bother me. I guess the indoctrination worked. I think of it through the lens of my enlistment oath that allegiance entails the responsibility to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic, though. So civic duty involves discerning when there are domestic threats to democracy (cough-djt-cough) and working for the side of liberty and justice for all.
Anonymous says
The pledge isn’t about democratic ideals. It originated as a tool for rooting out communists under McCarthyism.
Spirograph says
Mine is kind of the opposite direction… I grew up going to church almost every Sunday during the school year. Sunday school, church choir, the whole nine. Most of my friends were regular churchgoers as a kid, it was just What One Did On Sunday in my Midwest suburb. Everyone had WWJD bracelets, etc etc. My husband is a “coastal elite” and doesn’t like organized religion, and church is really not much of a thing in our DC-area social circle, but I take the kids to church with me a few times a month. They seem to pick up enough to be dangerous, but details are escaping them…
Recently, there was no Sunday school one week, so the kids were in the service with me, doodling on prayer cards to stay quiet. They made Pokemon-style cards about “Gesous” having “Bibel power (200 HP)”
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
DS #1 recently said “Nobody’s perfect, except God.” I’m Hindu, DH is spiritual at best, and our household leans Hindu/generally spiritual/The Force (Star Wars), so this type of framing was a bit off to me.
Turns out his class BFF said that to him. I clarified this immediately – Hindu gods (and many other religious figures) as well as great Jedis often make critical mistakes and are not perfect!
Anon says
One of my daughter’s best friends is very devout (Christian) and when he was here on a play date he was talking about how only boys and girls can marry, and saying things like boys can’t marry boys and girls can’t marry girls :(
We’re in a red state, but a bit of a liberal bubble (college town and university-run daycare) plus I thought even Republicans were decently accepting of the “LG” part of LGBT these days (just not the “T”) so it was kind of a shock to me. I’m sure we’ll have more experiences like this as she grows up though.
Oh and tons of people here have guns – I was talking to a bunch of kindergarten moms here and their husbands all hunt. I dislike guns intensely but if I took the “no play dates at houses with guns” stance some people here take, I don’t think my kid would have much of a social life.
Anon says
I get this. I also live in a blue city/red state, where gun ownership is part of the “culture”. I am, and even growing up here, have always been very anti-gun. My kindergartener hasn’t had any drop-off playdates at family homes, nor has he hung out with kids where I don’t know the parents well (yet) so it hasn’t been a problem yet. Once those start, I plan to ask and if they say yes, be the hosting home as long as possible.
My teenage nephew, who came from a family of hunters and was safety trained with guns, killed himself with a gun that wasn’t safely stored in his home, so…nope.
Spirograph says
I’ve normalized our liberal bubble to the point that I sometimes forget a lot of the US is very different, but I remembered when we visited in-laws in a red state over the summer, and when my mom was shocked that my son’s teacher was *openly* gay. I get the sense that the LG is accepted-ish now in my hometown, but not to the point that a teacher would show a family photo and talk about her wife as part of her Back-to-School Night introduction.
Many of our neighbors & parents of kids’ friends are same-sex couples and a handful are gender fluid, and honestly it would have made my head explode if I were dropped here straight from my Christianity-steeped hometown when I was in elementary school, but my kids don’t bat an eye. (Our church is extremely progressive and has a very active youth LGBTQ alliance, so fortunately there are no mixed messages)
Anon says
As an Episcopalian, I sometimes forget that so many denominations aren’t accepting of everyone. My church has three priests: an openly gay man and an Black woman who is an immigrant, and a disabled woman. It’s great. I think every young Episcopalian is probably liberal, but my parents and aunts / uncles are mostly conservative and are all very accepting of the LGBTQ community (and have been for 30+ years).
I grew up going to an Episcopal school (where most students were not Episcopalian – it’s the best school in the area and it just so happens to be Christian) and even there things were *mostly* secular (except for twice a week chapel, but even our religion classes weren’t expressly religious). Now as an adult, it does weird me out when people wish you a blessed day or mention God in a non-religious setting.
Anonymous says
For me the culture shock around guns has to do specifically with gun safety. My grandfather was a hunter in rural California and taught me to shoot a BB gun and a pellet gun at soda cans very young. But I was taught to treat even those weapons with the utmost respect: don’t put your finger into the trigger guard unless you intend to sh00t, don’t point the weapon at anything you don’t want to ki11, know your target and what’s behind it, practice muzzle discipline at all times. I had a toy rifle that did not even shoot caps, and my parents required me to treat it the same way. I now live in the SEUS and the casual way people treat their weapons here horrifies me.
Anonymous says
I am on the other side of this. I am a researcher working in a social justice-related field. For professionals and researchers it is incredibly cool to practice any non-Christian religion that has racial or ethnic associations. Researchers and professionals also value non-white Christian churches as partners in reaching the client population. But it is absolutely not OK to be Christian if you are a researcher or professional in the field. Some of the anti-Christian bias is fed by requirements from federal and nonprofit finders that grantees have “lived experience” as people affected by the issue we study. I don’t know why my colleague who happens to be Jewish and was raised by wealthy parents has more “lived experience” as a poor person than I do as someone who went to Title 1 schools and attended college on Pell grants, but whatever. I also blame the evangelicals for giving Christianity a bad name, despite the fact that I do not consider them Christians because they do not follow the basic tenets of the faith. It’s all quite frustrating because my Christian faith was a big part of my decision to enter this line of work and because I have to conceal most of my volunteer work from my colleagues because it is church-affiliated.
Anonymous says
Won’t someone please think of the poor oppressed white, Christian people! /s
Anonymous says
Oh, look, another bigot who claims to be anti-bigot.
Anonymous says
It’s not bigoted to say white Christian people are the majority in this country and are not oppressed. I don’t dislike Christian people or white people (and am white myself), but I think the idea that either group is oppressed is ridiculous.
op of subthread says
No one is saying white Christians are oppressed. What is mostly happening is that a bunch of white liberal Karens are engaging in performative bashing of white people, particularly white women and white Christians. If you’ve ever been in a webinar with a bunch of white female social scientists discussing what crazy new language is acceptable, without actually consulting the people to whom it refers, or whether white people should even be allowed to study social issues at all, you will know what I mean.
Anon says
i strongly dislike the oppressed vs. oppressor dichotomy that seems to have taken over certain types of scholarship/conversations. why do we have to try to label groups of people to fit into those particular buckets?
Anonymous says
It’s exhausting and gets in the way of actual research that can help to solve real-life problems.
Anon says
Academics are even worse about non-white Christians (I guess white privilege just trumps everything, but it’s still striking).
anon says
I don’t think I’ve had any remarkable moments of culture shock but I have been people’s culture shock a bunch of times:
– I went to NYC for law school and a new friend from LA was shocked that my family owned guns, because he had never met someone who seemed normal and was a gun owner.
– I lived in Seattle after graduation and one of my husband’s friends didn’t know there were Christians who didn’t read the Bible literally. I was also the only practicing Christian he knew in the city, and he was surprised I drank, swore, dressed normally, etc.
Anon says
hahaha omg I’m dying laughing at the second one.
Anonymous says
Sadly that is a pretty common belief in ultra-liberal circles. Thanks, Liberty University and Duggar family and DJT.
Anon says
When he learned I believed in evolution and so did my entire family and church, his mind was blown.
Anonymous says
If this is not OK (for the record, I think it’s not OK if no secular schools are readily available), why are we supposed to think non-Christian theocracies are OK?
Lily says
Who said we are supposed to think non-Christian theocracies are okay? I don’t know anyone who says Christian theocracies are not ok but non-Christian theocracies are.
Anonymous says
Everyone who supports either government in the Mideast conflict.
Anonymous says
Do any other parents have kids that get so caught up in their conversations with each other that they cannot hear and/or completely ignore an adult trying to talk to them? Have you figured out a strategy? I’m sure part of this is their ADHD and I love that they have someone who shares their enthusiasm about mermaids/unicorns/magic spells, but sometimes I just need them to listen for 30 seconds for me to convey something important like “the bus will be here in 10 minutes, this is your last chance to eat breakfast” or whatever and it is so hard to get them to stop talking to each other when they’re in twin mind-meld zone.
Anon says
i don’t think this is necessarily ADHD but is just kids. i bet if you said, would you like a piece of cake, their ears might suddenly be more open to listening
Anon says
Yeah this seems very normal to me, at least based on my 6 year old. She doesn’t have a sibling but is still often lost in her own world and has somewhat selective hearing.
NYCer says
+1. Extremely normal for all kids.
OP says
That’s the thing, it doesn’t matter what we say, it’s still extremely challenging to break through! “I’m getting out chocolate ice cream for dessert, please come downstairs before it melts!” or “Which playground do you want to go to?” get the same (non)reaction as “Please go brush your teeth”.
Anon says
It might be worth a hearing test. My daughter had a hearing issue due to chronic fluid in her ear, and when we fixed it we did see an improvement in this regard. (To be clear, she is still sometimes non-responsive, I think all kids are. But it does seem to have improve a lot.)
Spirograph says
I agree this is just kids, but my son does have ADHD and I remember asking at one of his well visits for the pediatrician to test his hearing because he was so oblivious to us.
Best strategy: physically touch them to get their attention before you start giving instructions. Hand on shoulder + “This is your 5 minute warning that screen time is almost over. please get to a stopping point and come upstairs.” and then require specific verbal acknowledgement.
Also an opportunity to model how to politely interrupt, if they’re talking to each other.
anonM says
+1. Adhd/auditory processing delays kiddo is like this. Other kiddo does it sometimes, but DS with adhd/auditory processing is the one where we simply cannot just call out instructions and think he’ll listen. I just ranted to DH about this today, actually. We have to guide DS through each step each morning. You have to make sure you have his attention. Even what you described is sometimes insufficient and we have to help him move to the next step psychically/with him. When I get annoyed, I try to remind myself/we remind each other that it is not him trying to ignore us but that he truly isn’t hearing and registering all our instructions/noise. Also, it helps to keep instructions short, use a visual timer, and a physical checklist (the kind where they can slide over the “check” mark).
Anonymous says
Two kids, neither has adhd or anything else, and we absolutely need to physically touch them or flick the lights on and off sometimes to get their attention when they are engrossed in play or conversation.
Anonymous says
Oh man. I meant to post earlier to get more eyes on this question.
My 4 year old’s sleep study results came back and he has severe apnea. This was a surprise to us because he breathes heavily in his sleep (only occasional light snoring) but sleeps through the night.
Based on the results, we’ve scheduled the removal of his tonsils, adenoids and inserting ear tubes (for a separate fluid issue).
Does anyone have any anecdotes for how their child’s recovery went and improvements after the fact? I’m both nervous for his recovery and interested if we’ll see positive behavior changes.
He is a good kid overall but can be quite whiny and doesn’t listen as well as my older child. I chalked it up to personality but perhaps the apnea is affecting his behavior as well.
Anon says
Wow! what prompted the sleep study? When he was 3, my son’s adenoids were removed and he got tubes. He was a much, much, much happier kid after, and he slept much better (he was a snorer before). He has a twin, and he always seemed so much younger than his twin. After the surgery, it felt like he “grew up” a ton. He did have pretty severe hearing loss and was severely speech delayed – so I’m sure a lot of his overall improvement came from being able to better hear and lots and lots of speech therapy. But he just always seemed to be so much less able to “hang” than his sister, and now they seem much more like twins.
Anonymous says
Thanks for sharing! This is encouraging. I’m so glad it worked out too.
Our ped had a list of maybe 4 criteria to recommend the sleep study. I think it was snoring/loud breathing, mouth breathing (at any time), observed gasping, choking or coughing while sleeping and a short list of behavioral problems.
He breathes so loud at night that I can hear him through a closed door and he does mouth breathe quite a bit. I also noticed he sleeps with his neck extended. The ped said it was my call since she could go either way. I was on the fence because I didn’t want to overreact but I’m glad we did the study since we now know his apnea is severe! They recorded 11 apneas an hour and the severe limit is 10+ for his age.
Anonymous says
I mean whiny and not listening is being a normal child. Idk why you think surgery will fix this but I beg of you to let that idea go. It is weird.
Anonymous says
I do think it’s normal child behavior, which I already said.
But studies also show that fractured sleep caused by sleep apnea can create or exacerbate numerous behavioral issues . Add in some mild hearing loss due to fluid and I don’t think it’s off base or weird at all to wonder.
But thanks for your input.
Anon says
I get that. It’s certainly normal kid behavior, but it’s also possible that crankiness is exacerbated by lack of sleep. I know many people who said their kids slept a lot better after adenoid surgery, and I don’t think it’s crazy to think that better quality sleep would lead to a happier, better behaved kid. I know my spicy kid is a lot harder to manage when she doesn’t sleep well.
Anonymous says
My now 3-year-old got ear tubes at 1 1/2, so maybe not as useful for comparison, but her hearing improved dramatically after tubes because the surgery got rid of all the gunk in her ears. More anecdata, but the mom of one of her BFFs observed the same thing after the BFF got ear tubes.
No experience with adenoid or tonsils removal, though.
I will say that my kid is now fairly whiny, and I’m not sure there’s a cure for that other than waiting a couple years. :)
Anon says
this was posted on the main page, but since it relates to what is taught in schools, thought i’d share it here as well. personally i find this completely horrifying and inappropriate https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/06/us/oakland-california-teachers-palestinians-israel.html?unlocked_article_code=1.D00.oXv-._0z6iFMtGG2k&hpgrp=k-abar&smid=url-share
Anon says
I do too – it’s not only inappropriate, but deliberately inflammatory. It’s steeped in activism and not scholarship.
Anon says
i commented on the main page, but i don’t think “”A coloring book for elementary students features a Palestinian character who says, “A group of bullies called Zionists wanted our land so they stole it by force and hurt many people.”” has a place in an elementary school! i do think teaching nuanced versions of history, different sides of the same story and how to critically analyze what is being taught is important and often missing in education today, but not a one sided story through a coloring book. i’m not really sure what these teachers intend to accomplish with this other than offending a lot of people and honestly is as one sided as a white supremacist teach in would be
Anon says
Omg that is horrifying!
Spirograph says
Ooof, I would not be OK with this. My 5th grader has lots of questions about Israel & Palestine, and we’ve talked at his level about how history and religion impact present-day politics, proportionate response and laws of war, how “freedom fighter” and “insurgent” labels depend on which side you’re on and who won (with parallels to the American Revolution). To me, it’s totally appropriate to encourage kids to think about the situation critically and recognize there are two sides both with legitimate grievances…but just presenting inflammatory rhetoric for the side that gets less airplay is not the way.
Anon says
i agree with everything you wrote, except it should also be explained that there are certain acts (rape, kidnapping of children) that do not have a place in any sort of war. and whoever is leading these conversations in a school needs to be doing so in a nuanced way! coloring books or another thing the article mentioned was a book with “P is for palestine, I is for intifada” is not the way
Anon says
Sort of relatedly, I had a friend who was told she couldn’t do her regular Hanukkah presentation in her kids’ public schools this year because of the war, and I also heard about a public menorah lighting being canceled because the organization putting it on felt like it would be taking sides in the war. It’s very disturbing to me that Jewish cultural and religious celebrations that have nothing to do with Israel are now being deemed inappropriate. And for the record, I would feel the same way about any backlash to Muslim holiday celebrations.
Anon says
That’s terrible! I went to teach about Hanukkah last week in my kids’ class and it was well received. We mentioned nothing about Israel etc
Bath help says
Any hacks to make bathtime easier with a 10 month old? She’s too big for the sink but we’re having trouble adjusting to the tub.
Anon says
what exactly is causing the trouble? there are some seats you can buy to use? i’ve also heard of people putting a laundry basket in the tub to sort of contain the kid in a smaller space
Anon says
Our progression was:
– Baby tub on the kitchen floor
– Baby tub in the bathtub, with mom also sitting in bathtub
– Baby in bathtub, mom also sitting in bathtub
– Baby in bathtub alone (not in the room – obviously – but mom next to tub instead of in it)
Anon says
And if you don’t already have a baby tub, you can probably get one on your local buy nothing group. They take up an annoying amount of space and the only reason I still have ours is b/c I’m saving everything for the next baby (ours or my sibling’s).
Anonymous says
Yeah, I got in the tub with them until they were willing to sit up reliably.
Lily says
We liked the giant inflatable ducky at that age. You do need to be vigilant about mold, but it’s super cute, big enough for a 1-year-old, and cushions any slip/fall reasonably well.
Anon says
We put an inflatable rubber ducky tub in our bathtub for a while. It worked great when she was too big for the baby tub, but too tippy for the big tub.
I also used to take her in our walk in shower when I showered. She’d crawl around the floor and play with toys while I washed. Then I’d soap and rinse her while holding her. It was quick and easy.
Anon says
We did this too. It worked very well.