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Washable Workwear Wednesday: Carey Top

Machine-Washable Work Clothes· Recent Recs

A woman wearing a Carey Top

I love this top from Boden. I like it as both a standalone top for a business casual office and as something to wear under a suit. The thick banded neckline with the pleating would look nice under a blazer, and the short sleeves look thin enough not to add bulk in the arms but substantial enough to protect from sweat. I love that most of Boden’s pieces come in a wide variety of colors and patterns, and this top is no different. My favorite is the speckled pattern, but the ivory would be more formal and has the neck detail to add interest. The top is $85 and available in sizes 2–20/22 — and today Boden is offering 25% off tops, sweaters, coats, and jackets (with some exclusions). Carey Top

Looking for other washable workwear? See all of our recent recommendations for washable clothes for work, or check out our roundup of the best brands for washable workwear.

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Sales of Note…

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About April

April is a working mom, a longtime reader of CorporetteMoms, and wrote our morning fashion advice for working moms from April 2018 to October 2020. She has one child (born 2/17!) and she’s a public interest lawyer in NYC.

Comments

  2. Nelly Yuki says

    Recommendations for XL/plus maternity underwear? I’m 23 weeks, and my usuals are bunching around my hips, making weird lines and dents because they are pulling down so far in the front. I am normally an XL and would prefer not-thongs.

    • Anonymous says

      I had some from the gap that were the least horrible ones I tried. A lot of the other ones had a very short rise in the back and didn’t come up high enough to cover what I needed covered. TMI but eventually I couldn’t stand to wear them.

    • lawsuited says

      I wore the Jockey no panty line promise hip briefs through pregnancy and postpartum (and beyond if I’m being honest) and they were so comfortable. If your pre-pregnancy size was XL, I’d go for size 7.

  3. Pogo says

    This looks really similar to the Ravello – just slightly different detailing I guess? I find these tops are hard to pull off if you’re busty, which seems counterintuitive. But it just makes me look ginormous and top-heavy with all the pleating (even though high neckline should be ideal for large bust). I’ve tried them on a few times and never pull the trigger because they just don’t feel flattering.

    • Anon says

      Are high necklines ideal for a large bust? I feel that high neckline always make me look ginormous.

        • No-Face says

          Personally, I wear high neckline + statement necklace/scarf because I can’t find a lower neckline without tons of cleavage. But I agree that high neckline by itself is the worst for a large bust.

        • Pogo says

          I just meant re: cleavage aspect. It’s hard sometimes to find work-appropriate styles that aren’t high neckline.

        • The Beagle has Landed says

          V-necks tend to be better for large busted women (34G here). High necklines or pleating are not my friends, make me look like a pumpkin.

      • Anon says

        Agreed – I typically require a low-ish scoop or vee, but I’m a 38H. However, this top looks great on me (I have now bought it in 4 colors over the past 2 years of wearing it). The wider band around the neck (I also have broad shoulders) lays more nicely on me than the ravello.

    • Anonymous says

      I am large busted and find the Ravello a lot more flattering, primarily because the neckline is lower I think. I really wish they would start making the Ravello in prints again. They used to do a v-neck Ravello too.

    • Jeffiner says

      I found the Carey top tight and pulling in the shoulders, Ravello fits me more comfortably. I have narrow shoulders, but a large bust and thick upper arms.

    • CPA Lady says

      I have a large chest and I find high necklines most flattering because of my overall body shape– I’m a short waisted hourglass, so if I wear a low cut top, my entire top “half” (more like 1/3) looks like its entirely boobs. vs. if I wear something with a high neckline, I have more visual space in my top half. I find boatnecks and turtlenecks very flattering. I also need waist definition because of the hourglass thing, or I look very boxy. If I were more straight up and down, I think I could do lower cut tops, because there would not need to be a cut off at the waist. Yes, I have put way too much thought into this.

  4. AnotherAnon says

    Hopefully a fun post. Do you have a favorite coffee mug, and if so, what’s special about it?

    • Nelly Yuki says

      I bought a handmade mug at an art fair it was an obscene amount of money, but it’s lightweight and dishwasher safe. I love the design and it reminds me of the three friends who were with me – we all bought a different version of the mug.

    • Cb says

      I have a Polish pottery mug as my office mug, and it’s perfect, it keeps tea warm for ages and doesn’t slosh. At home, I have a heavy whale mug.
      My husband and I use different mugs, he uses blue Denby builder mugs which I think are slurpy, and I like a thick walled, wide mouth mug with something fun on it. Our son knows which mug is which.

        • Cb says

          I bought some pieces when I lived in Poland and will pick up things whenever I see it in TJ Maxx. All my plates etc are blue and white so it doesn’t matter if it’s a matching pattern.

    • Anon says

      Yeti rambler!! life changing especially if you have kids because it keeps coffee hot for at least an hour!!

      • Anonymous says

        This +1000. I especially like that the slider piece on the lid is magnetic, so it’s easy to clean all the nooks and crannies
        My yeti looks GINORMOUS on zoom, apparently. I have to keep telling people it’s the same mug we ALL have!

    • Anon says

      For work, the contigo snap and seal 16 oz. It has fallen out of my purse, rolled under cars, etc. and still not spilled, and my coffee is still hot at lunch time. For lazy home mornings, a stemless insulated wine glass with lid (I use the corkcicle one, but yeti is also great too – and then they can do double duty for lazy evenings too). For regular WFH mornings, I use the mugs I collect when I travel (it’s my souvenir) – this morning I have one from a trip I took with my mom to Stockholm a few years ago.

      • Anon says

        Forgot to mention, on the snap and seal, it cleans really well in the dishwasher and it’s all pretty open in the top – not a lot of places for mold to sneak in. That’s my biggest bugaboo with commuter mugs.

      • anon says

        I collect mugs when I travel too! Although those do tend to get beaten up over time in the dishwasher – Romania and Charleston and the Neon Museum in Vegas (my favorite!) all don’t really have the letters anymore!

      • The Beagle has Landed says

        Same! Contigo snap and seal 16oz goes in my purse or laptop bag and I never worry about it even if my bag dumps over!

    • Anonymous says

      I have a former coworker who had a mug I coveted. It was handmade, fairly considerable size (could probably hold a 20 oz hot drink) and the handle was broken off. It was beautiful and somehow the broken handle made it even better. Every time I see artisan pottery vendors, I look for a mug of the same size but rarely find one.

    • Mugs galore says

      We collect mugs from our travels, too. We have a mug that we got at a diner on one of our favorite trips. It has the perfect handle and quickly became both my spouse’s and my favorite mug. So our tradition is that the mug cannot be taken out of the cupboard for one’s own use – the other person has to bestow it (full of hot coffee, dosed with the receiver’s preferred cream level). It’s a fun way to give a little gift.

    • Anon says

      A pyrex milk-glass mug that an ex gifted me (old town blue is the name of the pattern). He collected them from thrift stores. Don’t miss the dude, but I really like the mug!

  5. Anon says

    would it be strange to give our nanny a bit of a bonus right now? normally we give her a bonus in december around the holidays. she has been coming since this whole thing started (we live in a state where this has always been permissible and we were all social distancing other than that) and she has somehow managed to entertain our two toddlers in our two bedroom apartment, while DH works in the living room and he barely notices they are there. (i unfortunately do not have the same power). we have been having her come half an hour later than her usual start time, but still paying her the same. next week DH returns to the office, and we’ve been thanking her a lot, but thought some monetary compensation would be nice

    • Anon says

      I say go for it. These are not usual times and you are very lucky to have your nanny.

    • SC says

      I don’t think it’s strange. But even if it were strange, if my boss wanted to give me extra money right now (or anytime), I wouldn’t get hung up on the strangeness.

    • IHeartBacon says

      It’s never strange to appreciate someone and show them your appreciation.

  6. Anon says

    one of my 2 year old twins woke up in the mood to not take turns with any of his toys…it’s going to be a long day

    • Anonymous says

      Argh, sympathies! I’ve been generally enjoying that my twins can occupy each other, but when one decides to antagonize her sister it is the worst!

      If you want advice, our two strategies are using timers to enforce turn-taking or having the one who doesn’t want to share play in a separate room.

      • Anon says

        thanks for the tips. they aren’t quite 2 yet (next month), so i don’t know if they are quite ready for those strategies. at this stage they do not like to play in a room on their own, but will definitely keep in mind for the future!

        • Anonymous says

          Ah, yeah, mine are 2.5 so yours might not be there yet. They also don’t like playing in a room on their own, so will usually elect to share the coveted object instead. :)

  8. Sending out a SOS says

    Unexpectedly pregnant with #2. About 6 weeks along. DH is freaking out, saying pick our marriage or the baby, that he never really wanted kids, and if (baby) is what I want he respects my choice. Toss in a bunch of other things – that he never really wanted kids, let alone 2, he thinks I’ve consistently been the taker in the relationship, etc. I know it’s ultimately my decision, but if baby is healthy at the scan next week, I’d have trouble terminating a healthy pregnancy (and I’m as pro-choice as they come). To be clear, as of last week, DH and I were fine – eating ice cream in bed and laughing as usual. I’ve shared all of this with my MIL (confidentially), as they are very close (and she and I have a good relationship)…and she thinks he’s out of his mind. I don’t want to give up on the relationship, but I can’t do it on my own. If anyone has been through something similar, please let me know.

    • Cb says

      Oh my goodness, no experience but all the hugs. Could he be going through some sort of mental health crisis? This seems like a shocking change, in the midst of a very difficult global situation.

    • OP says

      *I can’t do it on my own – as in – I can’t fix the relationship on my own.

    • Knope says

      Wow, this is a lot. I’m sorry. Did you know that he didn’t want kids before you had your first and/or before you got pregnant with #2? If so, how did you work through that issue? If his reluctance to have kids is total news to you and you two had not come up with a plan to prevent pregnancy, then this is really unfair of him. Either way though I’d look for a virtual couples’ counselor ASAP.

      • OP says

        It’s kind of a mix. I’ve always wanted kids – when I was younger I actually envisioned adopting 2 kids and never getting married. When we started dating, he didn’t want kids at all. Over time, he agreed to “let’s have 1 and see”.

        Late last year, he was “almost there, but not yet” on trying for #2. I got off BC in January largely because I didn’t feel like being on it anymore and we had just moved out-of-state and I didn’t want to do the legwork to get a refill, especially if we were thinking about trying in the near future.

        I would 100% be down for virtual counseling but don’t know if he would.

        • Anonymous says

          I think you’ve got yourself in a hard situation. You got off birth control because you just didn’t feel like it. With a partner who didn’t want more kids at that point in time. I think you have already made your choice deep down. You knew he wasn’t up for this. You hoped a surprise would go over well. It hasn’t. You’ve already chosen the baby instead of the marriage. One of my friends was in this exact situation. She’s technically still married. He has not changed one diaper. He does not pay for anything to do with the kid. Get a divorce. Get counseling to help understand how you made the choices to get her. Enjoy and love your beautiful baby.

          • Pogo says

            I see the truth in part of this but if he was so anti-kid, we didn’t he get a vasectomy? I hate that pregnancy prevention is always the woman’s “job”.

          • Pogo says

            altho I have to say, I was assuming he knew she was off BC. That definitely makes this ethically tricky if he didn’t know.

          • Anonymous says

            I don’t disagree Pogo I just think it’s neither here nor there. He doesn’t want this baby and that isn’t that surprising. And is probably marriage ending. I am awarding him zero prizes here but you can’t make someone want to stay married to you or have another child.

          • Anon says

            I think he didn’t get a vasectomy because he knew his wife wanted more kids and he was agreeing to leave the possibility open? I agree that birth control is not just the woman’s job, but everyone would be calling him a terrible husband (not unreasonably) if he’s gotten permanent BC done when he knew his wife wanted another child.

        • Anon says

          Did he know you were off BC? Were you using other protection? I guess I don’t understand if he knew you were trying and is just freaking out about the finality of a positive test (relatively normal) or if you secretly got pregnant and now he’s giving you an ultimatum to abort or get divorced. The second situation seems much less salvageable.

          • Anon says

            Withdrawal and calendar method has worked for us for 8 years and I had no problem getting pregnant when I wanted to. Maybe my husband is the pull out king (portlandia reference), or maybe we just don’t do it often enough for an accident? With work stress, family stress and work travel our frequency is anywhere from 1x month to 2x a week. Probably average 3-4 x a month. I always wondered if people who have accidental pregnancies are just doing it way more often.

        • anon says

          You’re both in the wrong, IMO. You both gambled, knowing the risks, and now you’re both acting shocked by the other’s actions.

          • anon says

            He knew he didn’t want more kids and chose not to use condoms, get a vasectomy, abstain, or even offer to handle the logistics of getting a BC refill for OP. After how many years of OP taking care of every detail related pregnancy prevention?

            Pregnancy is predictable here and, as the person who apparently really didn’t didn’t want that result, it was on him to do SOMETHING to prevent it.

            I’m so over the idea that only women are responsible for birth control.

          • Anon3 says

            100% this. You both need to recognize this is not one person’s fault. He’s allowed to feel feelings and react but when he the initial shock wears off he needs to take as much ownership as you for where you are now, and then devise a plan as a team. Now, where do you go from here:

            On the one hand… Can you forgive him for ‘making you’ terminate a pregnancy? Will the thought of losing the child “haunt” you (sorry for phrasing; don’t know what else to call it)? Will he support you and your mental health indefinitely if you struggle with the aftermath of a terminated pregnancy and the sense of loss?

            On the other… Can you do this on your own with two children?

            It’s an impossible question on either side but I think first having both sides acknowledge there is no one at fault more than the other at this point and that you’re starting in the same place is going to be helpful for a productive conversation going forward. FWIW, I’m also pro choice – very, very much so – and fully understand your stance on the matter for what you would/wouldn’t do personally.

          • OP says

            I can definitely take accountability on my part. We should have had a better, more clear discussion of what we were doing, repercussions, and what we’d do if said potential repercussions would occur. It’s not an excuse, but we were also in the swirl of moving halfway across the country, me starting a new job, DH starting more work travel, all while living in a short term rental when said conversation “should” have happened – so not in a great head space. Not an excuse, but just some background on why I think this may have played out as it did.

            I also think his feelings are valid – but the reaction is troubling.

            That being said, we’re here now, and I don’t want a divorce (I do love and enjoy being with DH, barring this reaction) nor do I want to terminate this pregnancy if it’s otherwise healthy.

          • Anon3 says

            OP, can you let his emotions settle and then find out if his ultimatum still stands? I don’t condone the ultimatum either way but I think it needs to be determined if that was a knee jerk (albeit unproductive and troubling in it’s own right…) or truly what he intends to make you choose between?

      • Pogo says

        Echo this comment and you need to work through these issues. There is a lot going on here, and it feels very unfair of him as he is your partner.

    • Realist says

      This is really tough OP, I’m sorry you are going through this. I don’t know if therapy or counseling is an option, but that seems like a logical step.

    • Boston Legal Eagle says

      I’m not a therapist but it sounds like he’s spiraling and catastrophizing due to this unexpected development, in the midst of a highly stressful global pandemic. I don’t think this is just about the baby but about everything else that may be going on now? Is he anxious about life in general right now, and possibly thinking that the work that comes with another baby is just too much? If he has a therapist, call them now.

      • Anonymous says

        That was my thought, too. Also, this is really new. Is it possible he will come to terms with a second baby when he lives with the information for a couple of weeks? I’d give both of you a week or two to process this on your own or with individual counselors, and look into virtual couples counseling as well.

        OP, I’m really sorry, that sounds awful. I agree with others that if he was aware that you were off BC and using withdrawal as prevention, he was accepting the risk. I’m pro-choice, too, but like you, I would have a lot of trouble terminating a healthy pregnancy that resulted from a conscious choice not to use a better method of BC, and I would very much resent my husband for giving me that ultimatum.

    • Anon says

      is your DH a planner and just freaking out about this unplanned pregnancy? how old is your #1? did you ever previously talk about having more than 1? i think you could use a neutral third party like a therapist, to help you guys through this.

      DH and I always said we wanted 1 or 2 kids and then we had trouble getting pregnant and did an IU, which only slightly increases your chance of multiplesI. Once in passing, I said what if i’m pregnant with triplets — his response was that we would give one away. we are both very well educated and he kept going on about how someone would be happy to adopt one of our children. I was furious! i too had absolutely ZERO interest in having triplets (not trying to offend anyone who has them) We literally had a screaming, shouting fight about how we cannot just give one of them up for adoption. it is probably one of the most ridiculous conversations we’d ever had that continued basically until my first scan when fortunately i was only pregnant with twins

      • Anon says

        LOL giving away a triplet is totally something my husband would suggest too.

      • OP says

        He’s a planner (as am I) and we’re also in a very transient housing situation right now (in addition to COVID-19), which definitely adds additional stress. DS is 2.

        • Anon says

          it sounds like you guys have A LOT going on. if he knew you were off BC and using withdrawal as a preventative measure, he has to have known that getting pregnant was a possibility, making his response to your pregnancy kind of unfair. it is clearly a risk you were both willing to take, at least subconsciously, but it sounds like now that it is real he is freaking out. while i don’t know that DH and I would ever use that as our preventative measure, i can tell you right now that if i got pregnant accidentally, i don’t know that he would say choose the baby vs the marriage, but i can almost guarantee you that he would want to discuss termination. how long has it been since you peed on a stick and you first found out that you are pregnant? if you are both planners, and this was not part of the near term plan, i get him freaking out. until when are you supposed to be in your transient housing situation? i REALLY think you need some couples counseling and maybe individual counseling as well. if he is not open to couples, maybe start with individual and maybe that counselor has a script you can use to help him agree to couples counseling. also – totally not saying that you should terminate (i think your DH’s reaction is totally absurd), but just make sure you know the laws of your state, just in case. sending you all the hugs. to me, if your DH knew you were off BC, then he also assumed the risk

    • Anon says

      I’m sorry. Did you have #1 against his wishes? Since you said he never wanted kids. You will probably get a lot of people telling you he’s a monster but I understand his feelings. I understand how hard it would be to terminate a healthy pregnancy regardless of your legal views on reproductive rights, but I also think the person who wants fewer kids “wins.” Ultimately if you have a good relationship otherwise, your marriage and having married parents for your first kid are more important. I am very firmly one and done and if men could carry babies and my husband got accidentally pregnant I would absolutely ask him to terminate. I don’t know that I would deliver it ultimatum-style and I don’t like that he framed it as choosing the baby or him, but I think if one party believes the couple is done having kids and an accidental pregnancy occurs, the person who wants more can’t just decide alone to keep it.

      • Anonymous says

        I think this is horrific and if he felt that strongly he could have worn a condom every time or gotten a vasectomy. In no world could I stay married to someone who demanded I get an abortion. The marriage might also end because he doesn’t want to be married to me anymore! Fine. He can pay child support and we can work out custody. But no one gets to tell me to abort a child I want. Ever.

        • Anon says

          I mean, legally, yes it’s the woman’s choice alone, but taking that approach isn’t the way to a strong marriage of your partner doesn’t want more children. Having a child has to be a joint decision and I don’t believe that changes just because you accidentally conceived.

          • Anonymous says

            I think conceiving is a matter of whoever wants fewer kids wins. After conception, it’s the woman’s choice because it’s her body.

          • Anonymous says

            Nobody conceives truly by accident, especially not if they are using the withdrawal method. You are always consciously taking a risk.

          • Anonymous says

            No the time for a strong marriage clearly sailed a long time ago. I don’t think there is a path forward at all with a strong marriage. If he doesn’t want this child he should get a divorce, not fight for custody, and make his child support payments on time.

          • Anon says

            The details about them using withdrawal weren’t in the OP and I agree that changes things. But accidents do happen even on real BC (sometimes even post-vasectomy) and I don’t agree that it automatically becomes the woman’s choice alone after an accidental conception. Legally that is true, but ignoring your partner’s feelings about # of kids is a great way to get divorced. You can decide that having the baby is more important than the marriage, but I don’t blame a man for feeling that he gets a say in the decision to have more children, even post-conception. There are situations (abuse, one night stand) where he obviously shouldn’t have equal input or even any input, but a normal, otherwise-healthy marriage is not one of those special cases.

          • Anonymous says

            You always assume the risk of an accident, even with real BC. We don’t want any more kids, are using reliable BC, and are very clear about what would happen in the unlikely event of an accident. If my husband and I weren’t on the same page, we would not be “gardening” at all.

          • Anonymous says

            Anon @ 11:16, do you really think their marriage will survive if she gives in to the pressure to terminate?

          • Anon says

            @Anon at 11:25, I don’t know, I’m not in their marriage. Perhaps the disagreement about a second kid is really a symptom of marital troubles, not the cause, but I do believe it’s possible to be in a happy and fulfilled marriage but still have one fundamental disagreement on an issue such as this one that rises to the level of dealbreaker. I think OP also has to know herself (and individual counseling might help with this); if she couldn’t get past the resentment of the decision to terminate than their marriage won’t survive. But I do believe there are marriages that could survive this, especially with the help of counseling.

      • Anon says

        There is also placing the baby for adoption as a choice but I know a lot of people here freaked out when I suggested that as an option to someone else. I don’t think the marriage would necessarily survive that but if you don’t want to be a single mom to two, it’s a way to go where you don’t have to abort. For the record, I am pro-choice but also firmly believe that adoption is an excellent option for some people. There are always going to be women that don’t want to parent and don’t want to abort and there is some crazy statistic like 30 families available for every 1 healthy infant placed. There’s open adoption and co-parenting and all kinds of stuff people are doing these days. My good friend works at firm that handles adoptions which is why I hear this stuff.

        • Anon says

          That sounds very confusing for the first kid. A 2 year old will definitely know his mom is pregnant at a certain point…

          • Anon says

            True, but surrogates always have older children and the kids make their peace with that, so I imagine that if you’re committed to adoption from the beginning you can explain it to the 2yo as that you’re helping grow a baby for another family.

        • AnonLaywer says

          The reason people jump on this suggestion is not that adoption isn’t a valid option. It’s that placing a baby for adoption is often a major trauma as is. Placing a baby for adoption who you actually want to raise and have the resources to raise and are only placing because your husband wanted to be one and done is a horror show.

          • Anonymous says

            Yes, I’d only place a baby for adoption if I didn’t want a child and didn’t want to terminate.

          • AnotherAnon says

            This. It’s not 1950 anymore. I adopted a child. His mother did not give him up because she and her spouse had a disagreement about the direction their life was taking. I am not making light of the difficult decision OP is facing, but adoption is not the answer here.

    • Anonymous says

      Oof, this sounds awful, I’m sorry. Even if you decided you wanted to terminate the pregnancy I think you are going to need a therapist to get past this, so I would start there. Do it alone if he won’t participate.

    • Anonymous says

      I’m so sorry, that sounds really tough. To me it sounds like there are likely other mental health issues for him at play – depression and/or anxiety. He’s catastrophizing a situation he knew was likely to happen and did nothing to prevent. I would guess that he could come to terms with it over time, it could be a temporary freak out or it could be something more, but definitely needs counseling.

    • Anonymous says

      I had a panic attack when I found out I was pregnant and had similar thoughts to your husband’s. I was trying. I am not saying he is having an appropriate reaction, but maybe once he has had sometime he will come to his senses and start apologizing for his comments.

    • Anonymous says

      So sorry you have to deal with this. I read some of your follow-up comments, and my take on the situation is this.

      1. He knew you were off BC. It’s 100% his responsibility to prevent a baby if he doesn’t want one and you are fine with having one. In this case he could have used condoms and withdrawal. You did not in anyway ‘trick’ him as he could have decline $ex or used protection. He is an adult and he should take responsibility for his actions.

      2. I would chose the baby over the marriage. IMHO, in any marriage where someone puts that kind of ultimatum to their partner, the marriage is already dead.

      3. I would complete the move for your new job and let him know of your decision and file in the new location after you have moved so that he can’t prevent the move.

      • Anonymous says

        I agree with all of this. I would have been fine with one more baby, DH did not want any more. He used condoms for a year, then got a vasectomy. He did not go back for a test to confirm the success of the vasectomy, but we discussed that we would continue with any pregnancy that resulted if it failed (2 years and no pregnancies later, I’m pretty sure it was a success).

        I think both halves of the couple need to be on the same page about termination for the marriage to survive. If he honestly thinks that’s an acceptable solution and his ultimatum stands when the news has a chance to settle, I would pick the baby over the marriage. I’m 95% sure I could not get over – and wouldn’t want to get over – being talked into a termination that I didn’t want for reasons related to my own physical, mental or financial well-being.

    • Clementine says

      This is an impossible situation you’re in. I’m sorry, big hugs.

      I think you know what you want to do, it’s just… this isn’t how things were supposed to go. I think you need to take a minute to allow yourself to have ALLL the feelings.

      I know what I would do, but I’m not you.

  9. Anon says

    Hi all – l would appreciate thoughts about how open to be with a new boss about your personal situation.

    Until May 1, my boss was someone who was super flexible even pre-pandemic and had been especially understanding the past two months. He wasn’t a big meeting guy and when we switched to working from home he canceled all intra-team meetings, telling us he understood working hours were reduced and we should use them to get stuff done, not sit around talking. He knew I had a toddler and no daycare.

    My new boss seems like a nice enough guy, but he’s really into pointless meetings. I now have at least one or two hourlong meetings every day, which has seriously cut into my productivity, since I have limited hours to get stuff done. He also loves to have meetings on short notice, which has been really challenging given my home situation (a 2 year old at home and a husband also working full-time, although my husband has a pretty flexible schedule and has been able to cover the last minute meeting requests so far – at some point there will be one he can’t cover though).

    I’ve never met my new boss in person and he has no idea I have a young child at home with me all the time. I’m really torn about what I should tell him – I know these are extraordinary times but I still hate to introduce myself to my new boss by telling him I can’t be as productive as I should be or can’t make scheduled meetings because of my young child. I feel like it will inevitably lead to “mommy tracking.” At the same time, it seems worse for him to think I’m just a slacker who is being less productive than my childless coworkers for no good reason. If it matters, my workplace is generally a very laidback, bordering on lazy, 9-5 place but the vast majority of people I work with don’t have young children and our jobs are well-suited to remote work, so most people are not experiencing any dip in productivity from being at home.

    • Anonymous says

      I would not say anything about your family situation. Instead, I’d address the meeting issue, which is an efficiency and productivity problem for everyone.

      • Spirograph says

        I think the family situation is very relevant at the moment, though. Assume the boss is a reasonable person and has good intentions, and just doesn’t have kids of his own or hasn’t worked with people who do in the last couple months.

        I would say something like, due to the extraordinary circumstances right now, my husband and I are doing our best to balance childcare with our respective work responsibilities. I can make any meeting time work with advanced planning, but last-minute meetings are difficult. I am most productive when I have a block of time to focus on X task. Can we set a regular time to catch up each day so I can plan around it?

        • Anon says

          +1 except I would leave off this: “Can we set a regular time to catch up each day so I can plan around it?” and see what happens naturally. I mean, it sounds like the end goal for OP is to understandably have less meetings overall. Maybe with the initial suggestion he will reflect on whether these meetings are needed at all, but that last sentence implies they should continue & may allow for less reflection on his part.

        • Anonymous says

          The family situation is relevant, but the problem is really that the boss is being inconsiderate of everyone’s time. He needs to know that it’s not just a parent issue.

        • Pogo says

          I think it’s totally fair to address your family and living situation in these times. At one point on my team, three different individuals were sheltering in place with their parents (and no, they weren’t all 22-year-olds, but people whose normal apartments in the city were small and cramped for the number of people now living/working there full time, plus wanting to be able to support older parents). It came up, because it’s relevant in terms of how they’re able to get work done. Just like having kids does (and none of the people who went home to parents had kids).

          If I have to be on a relatively pointless call, I put my earphones in, press mute, and follow toddler around outside as he plays, chiming in as necessary. I also block time for toddler watching if it’s a real non-negotiable (usually the 3-6pm time frame if DH has critical calls to be on, typically because I have better luck than blocking my mornings where half of Europe already scheduled on me while I was sleeping). This cuts down on the “hey, saw you were free at 4 so I scheduled this call”.

      • Anontoday says

        Agreed. I would start with addressing the over-scheduling of meetings as a productivity issue and same goes for the last minute ones.
        I despise last minute meetings unless they are truly an emergency. What if you are on a call with a client and can’t attend. Or had budgeted that hour to do x work task, breaking up your concentration and flow. Or literally anything else that would cause that to be problematic in a traditional office setting, let alone working from home with a small child. If your new boss just needs a status update, that can be handled via email or a set check in time periodically.

      • Anonanonanon says

        I know I’m in the minority, but I’m 100% on team don’t bring up your child as the issue. I think this is somewhat geographically-dependent, though. If you’re somewhere that the shelter-in-place order has closed down all daycares and does not allow for babysitters/nannies, I think it’s OK to mention, but otherwise I wouldn’t.

        • Realist says

          +1. A man who doesn’t have children is just never 100% going to get it. Even men with children struggle …

    • Anonymous says

      I would just start saying “sorry 3pm doesn’t work for me, toddler witching hour. Could we do anytime 9-11 tomorrow?” Your boss has no idea it’s even an issue because you haven’t told him. Assume he’s a decent person.

      • anon says

        I’d do something similar, but maybe avoid saying you aren’t available at a specific time.

        Over the past couple months I’ve also just walked into a room with a loud toddler while on a call to make sure the other person knows that that’s something I’m dealing with. It was a good way to cut off a call I wanted to get off for strategic reasons – I decided to use the situation to my advantage for once!

        On another call with our consultant the guy clearly heard my daughter walk in and demand a “rainbow unicorn drawing please” which was a funny way to break the ice on the childcare situation.

    • Anon says

      Can you bring it up as a workload issue? As in, given current conditions and my additional childcare responsibilities I am working approx X hours a day, typically from A time to B time. It looks like I’m spending about X% of my time in meetings. Would it be possible to cut back or consolidate meetings so I can have more time to complete ABC tasks?

    • Anonymous says

      I’d just decline meetings that don’t work for me. If he asks why, you can tell him.

  10. anon says

    Who else is ready to quit their effing jobs? So very sick of trying to balance child care with work, and having unreasonable expectations coming from every direction. Every day feels like a failure.

    • Anonymous says

      I have tolerable days and bad days. On the bad days, especially if a few of them string together in a row, I’m right there with you. This week is tolerable (so far). But gosh, this is so, so hard.

      My division of a few dozen people had a virtual all-hands earlier this week and boss went around the room to ask each person how they’re doing. Even with people trying to put a brave face on things in front of the boss, it’s so apparent that parents everywhere are struggling. The child-under-18-free talked about all their new hobbies and projects around the house, and it was really apparent what different experiences people are having.

    • Emily S. says

      Raises hand! Except today, DH and I switched “shifts” so I am working in the morning instead of the afternoon, and I have renewed energy and focus on my job. It may be a temporary bounce, but if you can swing something like that, try it. We’re 8 weeks in and finally internalizing that what worked last week doesn’t necessarily work this week and it is okay to cry uncle and re-calibrate.

      • anon says

        I really just want to cry. Really, boss, NOW is the time you want to start a brand-new time consuming project that will benefit maybe like, 120 people? She’s a mom, too, but she’s a work robot and I am not. Also her husband is practically a SAHP, which is not the same as what I’m dealing with.

        • Anon says

          Are you me? I want to cry too. Getting asked to do more and more at work for debatable gain, by a mom boss that has extensive help at home.

          We need my income (DH is in a very unstable industry right now and will likely lose his job after the CARES act restrictions lift) so I don’t have the luxury of daydreaming of quitting. But something has to change, I am failing at everything right now and it kills me that my kids are getting hit with a lot of the blowback.

          My industry (tech) is so completely un-family-friendly that I’m contemplating if I even WANT to get back to “normal” where I devote so many hours to my career. The problem is, I’m not sure where I can go and expect a 40-hour-a-week job where I don’t bring home work on nights and weekends, doing something at least tangential to my skillset.

    • CPA Lady says

      I’m secretly ready for them to cut my pay, so I won’t feel guilty about half @$$ing at the level I have been for the last 7 weeks. But I’m not going to volunteer for that pay cut.

      The worst part is not the quarantine, it’s the guilt at how non-optimized everything in my work life is now and the anxiety that comes with waiting for the unknown consequences that will surely happen at some unknown point in the future. I have poor concentration, much lower output, a terrible billable hours situation, etc. I realize this guilt is a choice, but it’s hard to overcome all our (capitalist) cultural conditioning that our value comes from what we produce. I assume we’re all kind of in the same boat though. And we tend to be harder on ourselves than anyone else. So maybe it’ll be okay. Or it wont. Ugh.

      • anon says

        OP here, and you said this so well. I’m in higher ed and my job is safe, but I am sure there will be other consequences at some point. I have leave time to take, but then I’ll fall even further behind on my projects and nobody is really bending on deadlines. Where does that leave me?

    • Boston Legal Eagle says

      I hope you know that you’re not a failure. And if you don’t know, I’m here to repeat – you are NOT a failure. This is an impossible situation that is putting a lot more pressure on parents, especially of young kids, than on others without a lot of clear solutions on getting help. The idea that we’re supposed to do two full time jobs (paid work and child/housecare) at once is just crazy. And the alternative is to maybe hire a sitter, but then we’re possibly not abiding by social distancing guidelines that keep changing by the day and again, no one is offering help in the form of paid-for live in help or a demand that employers accommodate this highly unusual situation. And if you get a boss who doesn’t get it, then what?

    • Anonymous anonymous says

      So done with everything. DH makes a ton more than I do, so my workday starts when his ends. We would make it fine without my income, but needs his. He is also responsible for a large team and has been busting his a** to try to prevent layoffs. He is usually holed up in our home office from 8am to 4pm or 5pm, then often logs back on at 8pm. By 4pm, I’ve been up since 6:30am, dealing with the screaming 5 year old for most of it. So you can imagine the quality and quantity of work I can churn out starting at 4pm. And I start dinner at 5pm, so if he comes down later than 4pm, then I can’t start work until 7:30pm or 8pm. If they go outside at 4, I sometimes just sit on the couch and cry for 30 minutes instead of actually trying to catch up on everything. It is awful. Everything is awful. I feel like I wasted my time going to college and grad school. I almost just wish I could quit everything work related, but I have a great group of clients right now and some income would be better than nothing if something happened with DH’s job, so I just turn down most new work. It just feels like everything is going backwards and I am even feeling regret that we ever had a child. I didn’t sign up for this, and my daughter deserves so much better in the world. I’m horrified by the systemic sexism that seems to permeate everything and how quickly any gains can be wiped away. And this is just a rant. It is not fair that DH gets to work all day, but the practical reality is that we have to do it this way for our family’s finances, available resources, and situation, so please no advice on getting DH to do more during the day.

      • Anonymom says

        I’m so sorry. I am in a somewhat similar situation with one key difference, namely, our nanny is still coming. Is there any way you can hire childcare help? Even with her help though for various reasons she’s not coming full time and all those hours she’s not working are hours I am picking up on the childcare front bc my husband’s job has more going on and is much more economically significant for our family. I’ve been trying to take it one day at a time. In dark moments I too feel like trying to have a family and a career was a mistake but its important to remember that however long this drags on, one way or another it is temporary. And when it’s over you’ll be happy you stuck it out (I hope).

        • Anonymous anonymous says

          Childcare help is probably the answer. For health reasons, we are more strict with social distancing than most in our state and I really just worry about/see that being an issue with almost anyone we could try to add.

      • Pogo says

        I’m so sorry. This is rough; you have full permission for the couch cry. Or my preferred method, the driving around town aimlessly cry.

        • Anonymous anonymous says

          Thank you. I have definitely driven to a nearby park and cried in the car.

      • Anonymous says

        All the hugs. Can you start work at 4pm or 5pm as soon as DH is done? If you have all day with your kid, it’s not like missing dinner every night when you’re at work all day. Otherwise, can you hire a nanny? Even a part time nanny for 3 hours a day would be a huge help. She could come at 3pm, watch your child and start supper. You could work 3-6pm, take a half hour supper break then work 6:30-9:30 or 10:30 while DH puts kid to bed. That would give you 6-7 hours a day.

        Can your child play on an ipad while sitting next to you so that you can get an hour or two of work done during the day? My five year olds will tolerate screens for about an hour at a time. Usually a walk beforehand to tire them out helps with relaxing in front of the ipad or tv after.

        • Anonymous anonymous says

          I can sometimes get an hour or two of work in during the day. I have a very attention-needy child (probably normal for children, but omg). The only possible relief is childcare, but for health reasons, that seems like a huge risk for our family that I’m still not ready to take.

      • No-Face says

        This sounds so hard. You feel terrible because you’ve been doing the impossible.

        Can you afford throwing money at this problem? Only frozen dinners or takeout? (Or sandwiches and chips literally every night for dinner?) Hire childcare (even part-time) so you can work during the day too? Rely heavily on screentime so you can get something done while you are with your 5 year old?

        • Anonymous anonymous says

          Thank you. We are lucky enough to throw money at the problem, so we’ve done that where we can. The real answer is childcare, but that is very tricky for our family for health reasons. Screentime helps me get in an hour and change a day, but it isn’t enough.

    • Pogo says

      I love my job and don’t want to quit, I just want everything back to normal. I’ve also lowered my standards all around by quite a bit, which really does help. I’m feeling much more stable about work this month as the first 6 weeks of the pandemic were a mad rush to cut budgets and figure out how to not tank the business. Now that we’re afloat (albeit with massive cuts) I can breathe a tiny bit, so that helps. Worrying about the social/emotional impact on kiddo is the toughest thing right now, so just trying to make sure he feels loved. I can’t imagine what his little brain must think about not seeing his friends and caregiver – he’s just too young to get it. Even if I were not working, I’d still be stressing about this mostly. Like when he sees a playground and asks “can I just play for a little bit?” it breaks my heart.

      • Anon says

        I agree, being sad for my kid is the hardest part of this. My 2 year old has a lego slide and when she builds lego things now she says things like “Yellow tape on slide. Playground closed! No lego guys go slide.” I don’t think she’s upset about it necessarily, just processing, but it’s hard for me to hear :/

        • Pogo says

          Exactly, I’m hoping he’s actually totally fine and it’s really me projecting my feelings around it (so I’m trying to be super upbeat) but it’s crazy how quickly they’ve become accustomed to avoiding other people, washing and sanitizing, etc. Luckily I think he understands his friends are still around, we just don’t see them in person, but one of his little buddies apparently told his mom he thought my son was “gone” which is so sad to hear.

      • GCA says

        +1 I feel the same about my job, but I’m about 3 weeks behind where you are — it’s a small business and we’re working feverishly (well – not literally) to keep the lights on and make sure everyone still has a job at the end of it, even if it means brief furlough stints for some.

        I’m in the reverse situation from Anonymous 12:57 – I’m the one working fulltime++ while DH takes daytime childcare, and I’m exhausted all the time.

        None of us made any mistakes. No one expected to have a family and a career with no childcare and no village during a pandemic.

    • Anon4this says

      Agreed. Its just impossible and I’m miserable. Even with a nanny it is so hard. The nanny is not as many hours as daycare, work is still pretty busy, and now I have much more cooking and cleaning. Kiddo has entered a new clingy phase so as soon as I finish work I basically have to hold her (babywearing doesn’t work for her and my back can’t really take it now that she’s almost 1) until dinner/bed. Also she’s at a tricky eating age – not eating purees but also can’t quite eat a smaller portion of a normal adult meal so I’ve become a bit of a short order cook.

      I’m a biglaw senior associate, DH is a partner. He’s as busy as me but makes a lot more and his job is more secure, so it makes sense for me to pick up the extra work in our household. I already missed out on a promotion once because of maternity leave and now this makes it highly unlikely I’ll get promoted this time around. Unclear if I’ll have a job after that if I don’t get promoted and we’ll be in a recession and I can’t see myself getting hired easily. I never wanted to be a SAHM, but it seems so likely now. I just hate it.

      • Anonymous says

        Ignore this if babywearing is really not a viable option, but most carriers can be worn on your back as well as your front and at a year back-carries are definitely more comfortable on your back than front-carries.

        • Anonymous says

          This. I couldn’t back carry past nine months but I got a ton of work on weekends letting 1-2 year old toddlers nap on my back in the Ergo while I worked. Especially if you are seated, there is minimal back strain.

      • Anonanonanon says

        I’m fortunate to have a temporary nanny through all of this, and she does do some light housework (fold a load of laundry here and there, empty and reload the dishwasher once a day) but I’m learning that I really prefer my children out of the house during the day! It is INSANE how much extra housework there is from people being in the house all day every day. Also, daycare/the before school program used to handle breakfast and lunch, having to think up and prepare three meals a day has not been my cup of tea

  11. Anon says

    yesterday i found out that one of work friends from a pervious job who i adored and was so good at her job, quit back in December only 2 months after returning from maternity leave because she did not like the daycare she had chosen and in her words she was a “mess”. sounds to me like she had PPA. she never really wanted to be a sahm and doesn’t really love being a sahm. obviously we aren’t that that close if i did not know about this until 5 months after it happened, but before i moved halfway across the country we used to walk home from work together every day and she always said she did not want to be a sahm (not that there is anything wrong with it, just not for her). i obviously can’t do anything about it now, but i wish she had written on this board, or talked to me or something. 90+% of the people in our old office had small children, a lot of flexibility, etc. it just makes me sad that she walked away so quickly, especially given the current situation, if she’d been able to stick it out for another 2 months, she would be working from home now and not sending her baby to daycare

    • Anon says

      You’re making a lot of assumptions here and it kind of sounds like you’re blaming your friend for not anticipating that two months after she quit her job a global pandemic would have us all working from home with no childcare (and frankly, given how hard it is to care for an infant while working full time, I’m not at all sure the current situation would make her regret her choice to quit – a lot of us working moms want to quit now more than ever). The fact that she said she never wanted to be a SAHM before having a kid doesn’t mean she doesn’t enjoy being one now. Plenty of people change their minds about staying home (in both directions) once they actually have a kid. Not all women who hate putting their kid in daycare and choose to stay home instead have PPA. It’s not really very nice to speculate about someone’s mental health just because they made different choices than you.

      • OP says

        i don’t think i explained this well. i texted her to wish her a happy bday and asked how she was doing. she said thank you and then she said she stopped working in december because of issues surrounding childcare but really misses working and wishes she hadn’t left. i definitely do not blame her for not waiting longer and if she is thrilled as a sahm, then would be thrilled for her, but totally unprompted she said she misses work and the team. i was more just lamenting how challenging it can be to find good childcare and that the way she was describing her anxiety surrounding the childcare issues

        • GCA says

          Thanks for clarifying. and oh, that’s hard. it’s hard enough to be a new mom, it’s harder to be a SAHM not by choice, and I think it’s harder still in the midst of a pandemic. And then if she wants to go back to work, job-searching amid a pandemic is a nightmare. Does she have: emotional support from spouse? external mental health support? some sort of outlet (exercise, art, actual gardening)?

      • Maybe says

        True, but OP specifically said this person doesn’t love being a SAHM. So I don’t think this is just an assumption.

    • No-Face says

      As a counter-point, 2 months is a decent time to figure out whether you want to work after maternity leave. Plus, being a SAHM right now will probably have less of a negative impact on her future career (if she wants/needs one) because so, so many people are unemployed right now. A resume gap for 2020 will be unremarkable.

  12. GCA says

    okay, er — good for her, not for me? Is she telling you now that she doesn’t currently enjoy being a SAHM and are you asking for ways to support her? (Life isn’t great right now for most SAHPs-by-choice, either – they can’t take the kids anywhere, send an older kid to preschool, meet up with anyone or host playdates. It really is much nicer when you and your kid can get out and do stuff.) Also, not working outside the home isn’t a permanent state and a number of my friends have returned to part-time or full-time work as their children get older. She can always get back into the paid workforce in some way.

    • GCA says

      sorry, nesting fail, meant for Anon 12.01 above! if you’re looking for ways to support her, I’m sure we can come up with a few ideas here.

  13. Anon says

    Anyone have experience with the mommastrong program? Is it worth the 5 bucks? (yes, I’m a cheapskate.) Did you see results you were happy with and after how long?

  14. Anonymous says

    Our HR department just announced that we will now be required to enter our time on a daily basis. Previously, we could track our hours however we liked and enter them when timesheets were due. What’s next, monitoring software on all the computers? I cannot even describe how demoralizing this is. I am busting my butt to work from home during a global pandemic when I’d really prefer to spend the entire day refreshing the news websites, counting rolls of toilet paper, and cataloguing my canned goods. Now I have to prove that I’m being productive on a daily basis? I wish I could just quit.

    • Maybe says

      FWIW, I find entering time on a daily basis to be much easier than waiting. I also think it’s reasonable that your job wants a little bit more monitoring of hours since people aren’t physically in the office. This doesn’t seem like that big a deal to me, but maybe it’s industry dependent?

    • LittleBigLaw says

      We moved to daily time entry right after everyone was sent home, and I felt exactly the same way. It was one additional hurdle being added to an already impossible situation, and the way it was announced was anything but empathetic to the reality of what we were dealing with at home. It just felt like an exclamation point on how little I was getting done. But several weeks later, I’m actually really grateful for it. I’ve always struggled with procrastinating on time entry, and it’s been a huge relief not to be rushing to put in days worth of time before the cutoff each week. And it really has helped me capture more of my time, which is a major benefit since I can’t afford to forget any 0.1 right now. Everything about this situation s*cks right now, but you may find this won’t be as awful as you think!

      • NYCer says

        +1 to all of this. My firm instituted a daily time entry requirement in mid-March when the office closed (NYC big law firm). I was really annoyed initially, but now that I am used to it, it is fine and actually a positive.

    • CCLA says

      It’s hard to tell if you’re in a billable hour job – if so, I think this is a reasonable request, for the primary reason that it gives management visibility into productivity which is a key indicator for revenue and therefore viability of the business (daily entry is the policy at many law firms for instance, though at my current firm we only started really requiring it since COVID – previously it was generally considered OK if it was weekly).

      • Anonymous says

        Sort of? We bill our time to projects that are on fixed-price contracts. As a project director, I can’t see time charged to a project until two weeks after the close of the pay period, so daily time entry doesn’t help me manage my project budgets. The only thing daily time entry is good for is allowing HR and Accounting to monitor employees and making us feel even more like we have to prove that we are working. It would be one thing if they’d implemented this policy change in ordinary times. To do it now, with the stated rationale that it’s necessary to keep tabs on remote employees, demonstrates a disturbing level of distrust. It also makes me worry that my staff who are already struggling with child care issues and are taking advantage of part-time family leave will be so discouraged that they’ll just give up and quit. Nearly half of my staff on one large project fall into this category, and I can’t afford to lose them.

      • Pogo says

        +1 to this – I’m part of the management team that looks at this in my business and it’s very relevant. We have to forecast hours into the future, set our burden rate for operating plan, etc. If everyone was really good about doing it weekly (and making sure to get in by end of each fiscal period) that would be one thing, but unfortunately some people are terrible at billing their time properly and mess things up for everybody. I doubt your employer is looking to see “Oh Jane only billed 5 hours this day”. We look at it like, what is the run rate for this project in x month, and it needs to be accurate for both the employee’s and the business’ sake. If they’re looking at your individual hours I don’t really get that, it is a little micromanage-y.

    • anonforthis says

      My firm did the same when almost everyone was sent home. At first, the policy only applied to associates working from home, and I was still being required to be in the office, so I ignored it. Then I started WFH when our governor’s stay-at-home order went into effect, and I kept ignoring it. I got scolded by our firm’s administrator, but not by boss, at the end of April but got my time in. I’m doing it daily in May.

      It is easier. You do capture more time. There are legitimate business reasons. I still hate entering time everyday.

    • Anonymous says

      Hugs. My employer asked the same thing, and it’s largely a budgeting issue – they want to be able to forecast how prolonged work-from-home might impact the company. Is it possible that this isn’t meant to encourage productivity at all costs, but just to increase the company’s visibility into work patterns so they can plan better?

  15. Anonanonanon says

    I know this isn’t a “real” problem or reason to be sad, but I just put a bunch of my work clothes in those space-saver bags you vacuum the air out of and put them away. I’m glad to clear some room in my closet/dresser, which are both small and were always overpacked, but it left me feeling pretty bummed. I always enjoyed buying “work” clothes and building my professional wardrobe. I left a few buttoned shirts, blazers, and dresses out, though I’m not sure why.

    • Pogo says

      I have a really classy maternity dress that I will likely never wear. Brand new with tags still on it. It makes me sad in the same way.

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