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Clementine says
Me, folding laundry: Wow, it’s really weird that I have these little holes in all my cotton shirts… they’re right at the waistband… I don’t think it’s the rivets or my button though because they’re not all in similar places. What could have caused this.
Me the next day, realizing that my toddler has started not only pulling on my shirt when I’m holding the baby but has started taking it in her teeth and tugging it: OH. Yeah. Nope, now I know where they’re from.
Anon says
BAHAHAH toddlers, man.
My 2.5 year old decided to start his day by knocking over his cup of milk, which then knocked over his brother’s cup of milk. We were having a tough AM already but this led to all of us being unhinged (except for 2.5 year old…neat) and a lot of re-setting needed before we left the house. I started the day emotionally drained and just needed to SIT for 30 minutes in silence.
Anon says
I realize this subject is a bit sensitive and I truly don’t mean to offend anyone, but this is something I’ve been wondering about for a while. I know a TON of people who say things like “we’re not planning on back-up childcare because Grandma lives nearby” or “we want to live close to my parents so they can take the kids after school.” I’ve also seen a lot of resentment when that ISN’T possible – like “my mother who lives nearby has proven unhelpful with childcare” or “my parents chose not to move closer when we had kids.” Isn’t that a little entitled? It’s one thing if the grandparents have expressed a specific desire to be back-up caregivers, but it seems that in a lot of cases, the grandparents want a fun family relationship with their grandkids (e.g., joining for trips to the aquarium or hosting at Christmas) but to not actually be their regular babysitters or go-to aftercare. Many people I know seem to look down on their parents for not wanting that role, but as far as I know, the grandparents never expressed interest in it or committed to doing it (especially those who have just retired/have been looking forward to travel/etc.) On the one hand, I totally understand the desire for free childcare with trusted family – that does bring important financial benefits and it’s damn hard to be a working mom. If both sides desire it, it can be so wonderful. But on the other, why should it be an entitlement when regular childcare is such an enormous commitment? Don’t working parents view it as a lot to ask?
Anonymous says
What is the point of this post? Do you just feel like stirring up some drama? Does this impact you in some way? Are you an abused grandma seeking help?
Many of us have nice families where we all like each other and try to help each other I’m sorry that concept seems foreign to you. I moved close to my father when I had a kid- he’s not at all capable of replacing day care or even a regular babysitting gig. But if my train brakes down, he can do a pick up. If I need to go to the doctor he can take care of my baby for an hour. I didn’t need to have a long discussion with him about this because he raised me and I’ve met him before and I know what he can and wants to do.
Anon says
Yeah my first thought was this is someone who doesn’t have grandparent help and is sad and needs to convince themselves that everyone with involved grandparents got there by entitlement.
And if that’s the case… nope, my parents are super involved with their grandkids without any coaxing from us. And while there are obviously huge benefits for us, this is something my parents (especially my mom) genuinely enjoy, and I think it keeps them young and active too. My mom has actually pushed me and DH into taking an annual trip without the kids, because she wants more solo time with them.
anonM says
+1. What was the point of this? JFC being a working mom is so impossible. You must always have four types of backup care, but if you ask family you’re asking too much and you’re entitled? Come onnnnn. FWIW, babysitting one day a week got my mom through an intense, intense period of grief/mourning my dad. She lives alone, and I think having regular commitment to come watch her grandkids is great for her mental and physical health. She also always stays for dinner and we help with other things. Community requires give and take. (This board also skews high earners, so I get it, but also not everyone can afford to do anything BUT rely on family/community support.)
Anon says
Excellent points, I totally agree.
Anon says
This is coming off really defensive. If your arrangement works on both sides, then there should be nothing to get defensive about.
Anon says
+1
Anonymous says
It’s weird to randomly throw in a judgy post out of nowhere.
Like I hate homeschooling should we discuss that? I don’t like people who put their kids in travel sports. I think Catholic school is a fully unhinged decision.
Anon says
Bahaha
Anon says
I assume in those cases the grandparents either had expressed interest or it was a family norm, i.e. their own grandparents watched them when their parents were at work, or other grandparents in their family community did, setting that up as a default expectation. I would never expect my parents to provide child care for my kids, frankly they weren’t that interested in hanging out with their own kids (i.e. me) growing up so I had no expectation they would feel differently about grandchildren.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Yes, absolutely, both sides need to have similar expectations. But whether this is “entitled” is based a lot on cultural factors. In many countries, there is an expectation/cultural standard that grandparents spend a lot of time taking care of grandkids while the parents work, and the raising of children is seen more of a whole family event. In return, there is an expectation that grandparents will more or less be taken care of in their old age. This isn’t really meant to be transactional – this is just what a blood family does. And that can carry over when people move to more Western countries.
In the U.S., it seems like the dominant model is the parents do everything to raise the kids, whether it means one stays home to do the labor, pay for outside labor, etc., but in general, it’s all on the parents to figure it out. There are pros and cons to the nuclear family model, and in return, there is less of an expectation for these parents to also take care of their parents when they’re older. You can’t choose the family you’re born into, so removing any expectation of taking care of toxic relatives can be a good thing. But it can feel isolating too.
In my own life, my parents are from a country where there is more of a first expectation, and they explicitly moved to where we were to help with the kids. We don’t use them as our sole childcare providers, but we do rely on them for some afterschool and weekend help. And they expect and want this! My in-laws (more my FIL) have more of the U.S. mentality, and they live far away too, so they end up seeing us and their grandkids less (and complain that they’re not close but yet they don’t help out so…)
GCA says
I came here to say this. What ‘entitled’ looks like depends on cultural norms and what has actually been communicated. My parents are from a culture where the norm is for grandparents to be heavily involved in grandchild care, but their own beliefs and behaviors don’t fit those norms. Which is fine!
Anon says
The only people I know who resent their parents as it relates to childcare have parents who either 1) promised to be regular caregivers and backed out or 2) don’t want to see the kids much at all. I think both those situations are quite different than what you described. I don’t know anyone who feels owed grandparent babysitting just as a general matter.
anon says
+1
My mom talked a good game before all of us had kids. Now it’s a different story. She wants to see the kids, but only on her terms and for brief periods (holidays, family events).
Yes, my siblings and I are disappointed and feel like our kids are missing out. Our grandparents weren’t our regular babysitters, but they did help in a pinch and we did overnights at least every couple of months. So, my own parents benefitted from that but are uninterested in doing that for their own grandkids, and it honestly hurts.
Anonymous says
Agree. We have a fairly good arrangement with both sets of grandparents (they don’t live near us, babysit a few times a year, it is generally enough time for both sides). The real bumps we had were related to my mom promising care (I’ll do one day a week instead of daycare! Oh wait never mind I’m going to live in Florida for three months. I’ll watch the kids for a week during the summer! Oh wait never mind I only want to do three nights just come get them for the other two days), and then backing out at the last minute and not understanding why that was frustrating to us. She offers a lot, which is nice, but we are wary of saying yes too often for the above reason.
Anonymous says
I have the same reaction. So many posters here seem to feel entitled to expect that their parents and in-laws provide child care, while at the same time being extremely controlling or critical of the grandparents. I think it’s reasonable to hope that the grandparents will help out in an emergency or on a very occasional basis, and that the grandparents might actually want to have some quality time with the grandchildren once in a while. But that’s much different from depending on the grandparents for regular child care, expecting them to upend their own lives, etc.
My mom and in-laws raised their own kids. Now it’s their turn to kick back and enjoy grandparenthood on their own terms, while also enjoying their own retirement. I think our relationships with our parents, as well as their relationships with their grandkids, are stronger and much lower in conflict because we arrange our own child care and just let them be grandparents. When we have a true emergency my in-laws, who live nearby, will of course drop everything to come get the kids, but that’s exceedingly rare.
Anon says
With respect to your second paragraph I disagree – I think nothing strengthens the grandparent-grandchild bond like grandparents being involved on a daily basis, and I’ve also never been closer to my own parents because I see them so much via my kids and also really appreciate their tight bonds with my kids. Certainly it has to be mutual desire for this kind of relationship, but if all parties are on board I don’t think using them for regular childcare damages the relationship at all; anecdotally among myself and friends I’ve send the oppos*te.
Anon says
It’s 100% entitled, and I think it can also be hypocritical when those same parents feel like grandparents are overstepping. We’ve watched this with my in-laws and BIL and SIL. My in-laws were considering moving cities to be in the same city as the grandkids. SIL point blank told in-laws that if they got a call from daycare that a kid was sick, in-laws had to drop everything and go pick them up bc BIL and SIL had jobs. Huh?? And then they act confused and hurt that in-laws never ended up moving there. SIL (who is not in-laws daughter btw) will then also turn around and talk about how MIL oversteps when she offers any opinion at all about parenting no matter how gently it’s offered. But is furious any time MIL is not available to drive to their city and babysit for a long weekend. It’s tough to watch. We are fortunate enough to live in the same city as my parents, and basically have zero expectation of them other than that we want them to be involved in our child’s life. Obviously we’d love the occasional date night if they’re willing to babysit, but it’s not assumed.
Anon says
OP here and a similar dynamic with a close friend is going on near me – every time her kid is sick, she laments that no family is there helping her. I can’t understand how she assumes that her father would drop everything at short notice for a sick day or days. It’s only recently (kid aged 3) that she finally decided to pay a backup caregiver.
Anonymous says
I think expecting the grandparents to care for a sick child is the absolute worst. No, I am not going to purposely expose my parents, or anyone else, to RSV or HFM or norovirus or even a cold!
Anon says
Eh, I think it depends. We never used my parents for sick day care because although my mom is very fit and active, she has asthma and develops long-lasting coughs from even minor viruses. But if the grandparents are healthier and volunteer to watch kids on sick days, I don’t see a problem as long as the illness is fully disclosed up front.
Anonymous says
So much this. The same people who demand unlimited free child care are also the ones who are always complaining that grandma gave the kids a cookie after lunch or let them play with a toy made of plastic.
Anon says
I’m not sure I agree with the implication that lots of people here are “demanding” free childcare, but I do agree you can’t have it both ways. We rely on my parents more than most (they provide regular aftercare, summer care and vacation care), but we let them parent how they want with the exception of safety issues. We don’t police food at all, and I know my kids eat more sweets at their house.
Boston Legal Eagle says
I agree that you can’t have it both ways. A grandparent is not a paid childcare provider – you can’t control them. More sweets and more TV may just be part of bargain. We enforce safety standards like car seats (and sleeping and others when they were babies), but beyond that, the grandparents are forming their own relationships with the grandkids.
Mary Moo Cow says
This is true of us with my in-laws, and I spend a lot of mental energy on making sure grandparents get fun times with kids and not just run of the mill childcare. FIL is happy doing both and would even do more run of the mill care so that he could see the kids. MIL honestly probably like a little less of both, even as my kids get older and are less demanding.
Anonymous says
I think some of the tension comes from the older generation expressing great interest in having grandkids (up to and including pestering their kids about when they will have children, and encouraging having additional children), but now that the kids are here the grandparents don’t expend much effort to visit or spend time with the grandkids. Like they want the kids as entertainment/status for themselves but don’t acknowledge the difficult work of raising them, especially now when a lot of the village that existed in previous generations is either $$$ or doesn’t exist.
Anon says
IMO, the “village” was always 100% dependent on centuries of exploitation of women’s unpaid labor and isn’t something to pine for. But I know a lot of people disagree. I like the modern village that includes paid childcare.
Anonymous says
This. We expect mothers to provide care for their own kids and other people’s kids in the “village” (now while also working full-time outside of the home), grandmothers to provide free care for their grandchildren, and then women to provide free elder care for their mothers and mothers-in-law.
Anonie says
+1000. Neighborhoods were safe for kids to run around “unsupervised” because in reality – they were supervised. Almost every home had a SAHM or non-working woman inside or puttering around in the front yard, so kids were never too far from a trustworthy adult. The “village” was each mom trading off watching their kids for each other – no men were expected to be part of this village in the sense of sharing the workload of childrearing.
Mary Moo Cow says
Agree. I posted above about my in-laws but my own parents are a different story. My own parents: you should have kids, you shouldn’t work, but we’re living 8 hours away and travel a lot so we can’t do care, but we’re jealous of in-laws who moved to be close to grandkids and see them every week. It was more exacerbated when kids were little, but now, at ages 8 and 6, parents have asked to have kids for grandparent camp this fall and go on a whole family trip in the spring. I learned my lesson by watching a sibling who “asked” them to watch the baby for a parents getaway and basically expect parents to travel for sporting events since kids were toddlers. My parents would complain to me about that so I have never asked, but sibling would complain to me that parents complained about never seeing kids. Both sides needed to communicate but it’s hard.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Yep, this is my situation with my FIL and step-MIL. Complain that they never see the kids (they’ve come to visit us twice in the 7 years kiddo 1 was born), then don’t interact with the kids when we do bring them across the country to them. You complain about being retired and lonely and not having family nearby, but don’t make the effort to form those bonds?!
Anonymous says
this is my in-laws. Once I mentally adjusted to that, it’s fine. But I don’t expect them to look after the kids and when we visit I plan lots of kid-friendly outings because their house is full of expensive breakable stuff.
Anon says
It’s a balancing act, and clearly varies by family, but I do think you’re conflating regular childcare with backup/emergency/ occasional babysitting (seems like a no-brainer to me that nearby and able grandparents should do the latter, but the former is an entirely different thing).
My sister-in-law seems to come from a culture that has a much greater expectation then my (very independent-type) family about these things, and it’s sometimes been an issue – when she and my brother had their first, it apparently seemed like a great idea to them that my mom would care for her full-time. Mom somehow felt obligated to quit her (very part-time) job and do that, but there seemed to be a lot of ill-will about leaving the job and my parents being limited in their ability to make plans or travel because of this (mom absolutely could have said no, so that’s on her, IMO, but the difference in expectations is the issue.)
Personally, I wouldn’t want my kids to be with grandparents as regular childcare, as it seems to blur the line of who is really the parent (at least a day care has done professional distance). But that’s completely different from a periodic evening out, adult-only trip, or random school closure day.
HSAL says
I wondered about this when my kids went from daycare to preschool. When I was growing up my grandparents (all in the same town) did some sick days and babysitting, but no regular care. I moved several hours away from home right around the time my siblings started having kids, and my mom was very clear she didn’t want to be a regular caregiver. But she does plenty of one-offs, including when my husband and I spent ten days in Europe this summer. Grandparents and grandkids all have a great relationship. At preschool, I was surprised how many grandparents did pickups and then afternoon care. One grandma in particular hated it. She was lovely but she’d been doing it for years and was just so over it. It made me wonder why she’d never talked with her daughter about finding alternate arrangements, but that’s a tough conversation too. No insight, but it’s also something I’ve wondered about.
Clementine says
I can’t speak for anyone but myself. Theoretically, my inlaws and mother both live close enough and have expressed that they ‘would love to help!’ They love their grandchildren and I think the picture they present to others is that they ‘help Clementine out’ or ‘would love to help Clementine out but she doesn’t need help’.
I 100% facilitate the fun grandparent experiences which basically involving me working 100% around their schedule, presenting a totally ready child, delivering the child to said grandparent, and then accepting all criticism when the child behaves in a developmentally normal way.
I don’t need full time childcare. I pay for full time childcare. What I needed was someone to help me out when I was totally on fire. When I had a big week at work and husband was working too and one kid had an ear infection so couldn’t be at school (but wasn’t contagious) and I just needed help for 2 hours so I could attend a can’t miss meeting. I didn’t need full time childcare, but I could really use help for a couple days during school vacation so my kids are having fun with people they love and I’m still getting to work.
It’s hard to have people who say they want to help, but manage to make my life harder. Like, they’ll make a big deal about being able to take the kids and go to the park, so I’ll book a haircut or something and then they’ll cancel last minute and I’m screwed. And that’s fine, but to hear over and over from people that I’m ‘so lucky to have family so close!’ when they’re actually making my life harder can be hard and sometimes I’m sure I’ve vented here.
anon says
I also really resent my MIL making a show of being helpful when she is the opposite. It doesn’t significantly affect my childcare situation or other stress, but it has destroyed my relationship with her and did serious (thankfully temporary) damage to my relationship with DH. I think the “can’t have it both ways” applies on both sides, that if she wanted a deep relationship with my kid she would need to step up and either interact with him *or* be supportive of the whole family in other ways.
Anon says
I lived through this, too with my MIL and DH. It was terrible. It’s much better now, and I give her discrete things to do when she visits (not often), which she does happily.
anon says
Preach. To all of this. Stop saying you want to help when it’s so, so obvious that you don’t.
Emma says
+1 million. My MIL likes to remind me that my parents can’t help (they are not local, but are very helpful when they visit) and then tell me I’m sooo lucky to have her because she’s so helpful. And she does help with the baby and is very sweet with her, but it’s very much on her own time. Which is fine, but the forced gratitude is a little much sometimes, especially since the few times I really needed help and asked for it (a few times when she was a newborn and I was so exhausted, and one time when she caught a bug at daycare and we were both super sick) she told me she would come and help out and then totally ghosted me and was like “oops I got busy”.
Clementine says
Oh man, so incredibly relatable. I am so SO thankful because – you’re right! They don’t need to help! It would be wrong of me to expect them to help! But also – I can’t with the ‘oh we would LOVE to help, you should just ask us!’ and I would say that the rare times I just desperately need help – like the month and a half I had post-COVID brain fog and exhaustion so badly I couldn’t function, my partner had out of town work, and my kids were out of care more than they were in… And yes really, that haircut thing happened.
Honestly, I’ve talked about this but it’s what drove us to get an au pair. I now have zero assumptions that I will get any help from any family and it’s honestly much easier.
FWIW, it has profoundly changed how I think about what I would like to do as (hopefully) a grandparent. Someone I know has a MIL who does their family’s laundry. When she first had a baby, her MIL said ‘As someone with all boys, I knew I would always be The Mother In Law, so I really want to do something that will help your family. Let me handle the laundry.’ So sure as can be, she comes over (often while people are at work and school) and just helps by doing all the household and kid laundry. She’s a cool lady, but really what I see is that she supports her daughters in law by doing some of the most annoying things so that they can have time to take a breath. FWIW, her husband is also basically a child taxi service for the grandkids to help make sure everyone can get to dance/soccer/karate on time with working parents. I see them and know what kind of support I want to offer my kids if possible.
Anon says
As another perspective, my mother gives me a really hard time about hiring childcare. She thinks I should SAH and using childcare makes me a bad mother. I’ve never asked her to be childcare because I know she doesn’t want to be childcare, but she is only okay with the kids being watched by family.
She doesn’t want to be responsible for my kids and, on the occasion she comes to visit during a work week, asks me to pay a nanny if she’s with the kids so the nanny can do the hard parts (which I do). In the end I still get all her judgment and negative comments, all of the cost of childcare, and all of the burden of a grandparent who doesn’t stick to the routine or rules. Good times.
Anon says
Ooh I’m 1000% on your team here. That would drive me crazy!! (I get shades of this from my mom too, but she does provide childcare so at least there isn’t the element of hypocrisy.)
No help at all says
Both my parents and my husbands are dead. The last to pass was my mom and she died when our child was 2. She was able to come be with me after the birth and I treasure that special time.
We both work, me a 9-5 butt in seat govt job with lots of leave but limited telework. My husband is WFH but that’s going to change soon and he will be going into office 2 days a week with a longish commute.
We spent money on childcare and babysitters. Otherwise it’s all on us. It’s incredibly hard sometimes but getting easier as our child is now 6. I do envy people with any grandparent help, but it’s not like I can change our situation. I feel like people with significant grandparent help have it easier for sure. It is what it is.
Anon says
Huh, I’ll bite! So, we’re very fortunate to have both sets of grandparents be very into their grandkids. In-laws live 45 minute away and provide us with emergency sick care and the occasional overnight. My parents live a long flight away (but within the US), see us about once a quarter (usually pretty even about who takes the flight) and are obsessed with the kids while they’re there.
I didn’t realize this was weird until I was an adult- but my whole extended family’s value system is incredibly child/future based. My parents definitely wanted grandkids and started making comments in my early 20s. Their goal with aging is “not to be a burden” (so that we can dedicate our energy to our kids). I realized this when my friend mentioned her parents expect her to financially support her adult brother when they pass away. I was FLOORED- this is so antithesis to how I was raised. I don’t expect my parents to move here, but I would be hurt if they weren’t active with their grandkids after all their comments.
Husband’s family has similar dynamics. We purposefully chose to live here because it’s close to family. His siblings also have young kids and there’s very much an extended family expectation that everyone helps with the kids- before we had our own kids, we’d have his nieces and nephews over for sleepovers etc.
Anon says
Many people do want to babysit their grandkids. My mother acted like I was committing a crime by putting my kids in daycare. I don’t think it’s entitlement in many cases – it’s a cultural expectation.
Anon says
Agree, cultural expectations are huge. I’m very close to my parents but would never want them living in my house, nor would they expect to, but it’s the norm for a lot of my Asian American friends. I don’t think it makes their parents “entitled,” it’s just a different culture.
anon says
I recently spent a weekend at a hotel in a random not-very-pleasant location to meet up with LO’s granny. They played in the hotel lobby for hours while I took an important work meeting.
A) A fabulous time was had by all. My mom is 100% willing to upend her life to provide as much childcare as she can possibly manage. LO adores her and learns new skills every time they visit.
B) At checkout, the very grumpy front-desk worker (owner probably?) stopped us to explain that providing fulltime childcare for her grandchildren was “best time of my life”. She also had some salty remarks about her granchildren as teenagers ;) but it was a nice reminder for me that loving grandparent relationships really do happen. Especially after reading so many comments here and on other social medai sh!tting on grandparent/parent drama.
Anon says
This stage of my relationship with my parents has been very drama-free compared to my childhood! And my parents live a mile from us, so you’d think it would be a recipe for drama. But the grandchild is the glue that holds everyone together, and my parents are good with boundaries (and I have a patient husband).
anon says
It’s both true that my parents have expressed a desire to help with child care but have also proven to be unhelpful with childcare. It’s just fact and I don’t think it’s an entitled statement as a standalone.
Rightly, in my opinion, they want to do it on their terms and rightly, also in my opinion, I need care/reliability/consistency on my terms. Oil and water. Hence, we pay for childcare despite the fact they moved closer “for the grandkids” – a statement that still rings true but does not equate to reliable, consistent care. I’m grateful (endlessly so) that grandma will come over at 7am and take DD to school for 8:15 if DH and I have competing early meetings, for example, but those requests are ad hoc and they can/do say no. Expecting a yes 100% of the time is entitled / selfish / whatever.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Another thought I have about this is I wonder what will happen when there is an influx of boomers (which is generally the generation of most of the grandparents now, at least on this board) getting very old and unable to care for themselves. The ones with enough money will outsource, of course (but there is a nursing care shortage…). But will there be complaints from others that their kids are not there to take care of them? Honestly, I am much more inclined to help my parents out as they’ve been helpful with the kids – even if I’m not the one bathing them or feeding them, I will visit and make sure they are cared for. I can’t say the same for my in-laws, and there is sort of this implication that they’re on their own (although my husband is a nice person and will probably help them regardless).
It sounds like a lot of people on here have parents/in-laws who are not that helpful or helpful on their own terms, and I wonder what your thought is on their old age. Because we all eventually end up right where we started, with needing others to care for us.
Anon says
It’s probably correlated but I’m not sure it’s direct cause and effect. We will be much more involved in my parents’ care than my in-laws’ care, and that mirrors the relationships they have with our kids, but I think this would be true even if the kid stuff hadn’t played out the way it did. There are a bunch of other factors in play, including that my parents’ are way more fiscally responsible so g-d forbid they run out of money, we’ll be much more inclined to keep them in their current standard of living, whereas my in-laws spent every dime they earned on frivolous stuff, so we don’t feel the need to do much more than keep them off the streets.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
I think this is an interesting subject, and like many things, there are cultural norms, too. I posted about my cousin yesterday – his whole setup (my aunt = live-in grandmother) is very traditional to my cultural background. My grandmother, who was based abroad for most of my childhood, literally re-settled in the US for years at a time to help my immediate and extended family out with childcare – also not an anomaly.
At the same time, many of my parents’ friends have taken the roles you mention above (e.g. joining trips to the Aquarium) without providing childcare due to their own interests, health issues, etc. I think also, having kids later in life means grandparents are older and often can’t do as much as a spry 55 year old.
I think the “resentment”, or really, frustration, tends to come when one party moves with the expectation, or is made to think there will be more hands-on help, and then that’s not the reality for whatever reason.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
Ah, threading fail!
Anonymous says
I agree about moving being a big factor in resentment. I also think that a lot of young parents move to be near family without actually communicating with their own parents about expectations regarding child care. Another wrinkle is that today’s grandparents are often either older and frailer than our grandparents were, or more active with their own lives and activities, especially in the high-income demographic that this forum caters to.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Yep, posted similar above. I think individualism has been taken to kind of an extreme in the U.S. Parents are told to do it all on their, without affordable safety nets in place to help (i.e. be the village instead of blood relatives) but they also can’t expect help available from grandparents because they’re “living their best lives.” And people wonder why dual working parents here are stressed!
Anonymous says
I think the answer is for society (i.e., the government) to provide high-quality universal child care and health insurance, limited paid parental leave for non-birthing parents, and significant paid leave for biological mothers’ physical recovery. Not to demand even more unpaid caregiving from women (grandmothers).
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
+1M. We are just not setting up families for success on any level in the U.S. I say this knowing all the privileges I have. Compound that with “snapback” culture and it’s just all so gross and demoralizing for birthing parents.
Anon says
Yeah, when someone moves near their parents with the promise of help and then doesn’t get what they’d anticipated, that’s a recipe for resentment. We let my parents move to us when they wanted to, which seems like the better plan. The only problem is that it’s created the expectation for my daughter that I’ll do the same for her. I will, but not as enthusiastically as my mom did.
Anon says
i don’t think you necessarily have to do the same for your daughter. wait and see. we live flying distance from grandparents and our plan was that my mom would basically fly out to help me whenever i needed her (fortunately $ was not an issue and her retirement lined up nicely with 2 months after i had my kids). well, we plan and g-d laughs, so instead she got sick and was in a wheelchair by the time my kids were born, so that never happened. i often think about how different my parenting experience would be if my mom was alive and healthy. we had the kind of relationship where i would’ve been able to say, like DH is going out of town for a week for work, can you come help me and the answer would’ve been yes. my in-laws, in particular my MIL says she wishes we lived closer, but i’m glad we don’t (though i do wish it was driving and not flying) because I think there would be a mismatch in terms of expectations and reality. for example, this summer we spent 3 weeks staying at my in-laws beach house (we were invited to do this) and my MIL insisted she had to play tennis every single day we were there. before we got there she said she couldn’t wait to spend time iwth the kids…they’d be swimming in her pool while she sat and read on her kindle. the one time we actually asked her to watch the kids so we could go meet a friend of mine i hadn’t seen in 5+ years she got home 20 minutes late (fortunately my BIL and his gf were available to watch the kids). my inlaws are helpful with the kids very very much on their terms. this has sometimes made me resentful in the sense that it feels so unfair that my mom isn’t here.
Anon says
I lost a parent a few years ago. I’m so, so sorry for your loss. I know exactly what you mean regarding “unfair”, even knowing the reality would likely be different if they were still here.
anonM says
Anon, I’ve 100% seen this with my friends who unfortunately lost their mothers too. I’m really sorry for your loss. It’s really unfair and part of what makes what may have been a minor irritation with in-laws feel really hurtful. Wishing you the very best.
Anon says
TW: pregnancy loss?
Ugh. I recently posted about being pregnant for the first time. My doctor ordered repeat hCG measurements and it looks like it’s not going up enough. It was right on target for five weeks, 8,000ish, and now from a reading four days later, it’s just 9,000, nowhere near doubled. I’m cleaning to some tiny shred of hope that it could be a lab measurement difference between two different lab locations but I know it’s a joke. I have no one I can talk to about this and I have to go pretend to be a director in a work meeting in an hour.
Anon says
I’m so, so sorry. I would power through the meeting as best you can and then do whatever you can to clear or minimize your schedule for today and the rest of the week. You should give yourself as much time and space to grieve as you need! Hugs.
oil in houston says
I am so sorry you’re going through this.
anon says
Ugh, I’m really sorry for you, and also literally got the same call at work yesterday morning. It’s very hard to power through, and I sobbed pretty much from the minute I drove home until I fell asleep last night. It’s so so hard.
Anon says
Ugh, I’m so sorry for you as well.
Anonymous says
Oh man. I’m sorry, this is the worst.
Anon says
I’m so sorry. I recently miscarried and it really sucks. I would wait until you hear back on the results, because you never know, but if it’s not good, give yourself a little time to grieve and process. It’s been a month, and I’m much better than I was although it still stings. We are giving my body a little time to recover and then we’ll keep trying and hope for the best. Hugs.
Toddler Parenting says
We went to a local children’s museum with our 3 yo son last weekend which has a Dino exhibit. Another kid, maybe around 4, was right in front of us and doing the exhibits at the same time. At one point my kid basically butted in front and wouldn’t share the “touch the Dino bone” part. I started reprimanding him to share, take turns, etc and the other mom goes “don’t worry about correcting him, they will figure out how to share”. I like this parenting style in theory but I also don’t want my kid to be a selfish brat and feel a reminder is necessary.
Thoughts? Are you hands off on playgrounds and museums and let the kids figure out how to cooperate or more active in correcting behavior? I generally don’t consider myself a helicopter mom but maybe I’m slipping toward that.
Anonymous says
The other mom might know her kid is very capable of negotiating. I have two kids for whom I would respond exactly the same way. My 3rd kid (who is actually my oldest) would just step back and give up her spot. That’s the kind of kid I worry about and start least on the receiving end, I help the kids when they look like they have a power dynamic.
My middle and youngest are confident self advocates.
Clementine says
I agree that it really is a know your kid thing. Similarly, my oldest and middle are totally capable of standing their ground and frankly, I think they’ve gotten a lot of growth from seeing kids who have behaviors that I’m normally ragging on them for (lots of swing-hogging conversations…).
I have told parents before to not worry that I know the kids will work it out, but I’ve also been the ‘Excuse me. It is their turn now’ parent for my own kids. I think a balance and knowing your kid is where I’ve landed.
Anonymous says
I think there’s a big difference between demanding that a kid share his own toy or give up a communal toy that he is playing with before he’s done, and preventing him from hogging a museum display. I don’t do the former but definitely do the latter.
anonM says
Really fact dependent. If my 5yo got butted out of the way by a 3yo I’d probably also try to signal to the other parent NBD because I expect my 5yo to be able to handle that, and usually he’s fine and understanding about younger kids. Also, in public, it might be better to give one reminder then just get the 3yo to move along to another exhibit and save the longer explanations for home/another time. Overall at home/with friends’ kids, we try to stay out of sharing unless it is a big age gap/hitting/safety.
Anon says
I feel like these are really good situations for the most magical observational phrase for my family of 4 kids — “when you are done with your turn, it looks like [x] wants a turn.” And equally important is teaching the inverse to the child who doesn’t have the turn, “Did you ask [y] if you can have a turn when he’s done?” If the first kid is taking a crazy long turn, at some point you can nudge with “Can we set a timer so that we make sure everyone gets a turn before we have to leave?”
I read in a parenting book that forcing a kid to share actually makes them less likely to share in the future because they are never sure when they will have to just give up their turn bc some adult is forcing them to hand over their toy. By giving them some control (you hand it over only when you are done), they are less likely to hoard time with a toy. I’ve seen this with my twins — take something from them, and dang, will they cry and/or lash out against the other twin, but if you encourage them to hand it over when they finish their turn, they are WAY more likely to hand over like a minute later.
DLC says
I agree with this- I rarely tell my kids to share, but I do try to make them aware of social cues- “It looks like this kid is waiting for a turn” “Oh this kid doesn’t have a crayon.” etc.
I also set the expectation that you can ask for a turn, but the other kid may say no, in which case, go find something else to do and come back later.
I don’t think your kid will be selfish brat- he will probably learn soon enough if he doesn’t share, other kids won’t want to reciprocate. I am definitely guilty of spinning my kids’ behavior into life long faults too (she snuck candy… is she going to grownup to sneak drugs?!?!?). I have to remind myself that kids will be selfish and do dumb things, but hopefully they will figure how to be a nice person.
Anon says
Depends on age, but I tend to be hands off unless it’s a weird thing like “meet the parent” at school and then maybe I’m trying to demonstrate to the other parents that I’m paying attention and care? All that to say, I feel like I’ll sometimes correct for the sake of other parents who may be less chill than this parent and less for the sake of the kids. My kids ability to advocate for themselves varies dramatically, but learning sharing early isn’t necessarily where we’re going to be able to teach it.
Anonymous says
A museum is a situation where there are norms and rules that kids should be following. It’s appropriate to insist that your child wait in line and not monopolize the exhibit, both for the sake of the other kids and for the sake of your own kid’s learning. Much different from kids squabbling over a shovel one of them found in the sandbox at the park.
HSAL says
What are some good puberty books for an eight year old girl?
anonM says
I haven’t looked at in years, but me and all my cousins had the American Girl body book. Apparently there are now two, one for older and younger girls. The Care and Keeping of You 1 and 2. Might be a good place to start (but I have not vetted how these books have aged, so def look at it first!).
Anonymous says
I got this for my 8 year old and it’s great
EP-er says
I gave my daughter this one, available on Amazon: Celebrate Your Body (and Its Changes, Too!): The Ultimate Puberty Book for Girls
It is factual. I agreed with most of the things in it & how it was presented. Doesn’t really go into sex/relationships (which is great at this age!) but was just about how your body changes and what to expect.
anon says
My family adores the gender-inclusive It’s Perfectly Normal. You may want to peruse first, though. It’s labeled for 10 and up and covers well beyond puberty.
Anon says
Random parenting and fashion blog intersection advice -my daughter absolutely loves to make clothes and accessories for her dolls, so I started gathering up any old clothes that aren’t donatable and saving them for her projects. I had a beautiful silk shirt that I was pretty heartbroken to finally admit just wasn’t wearable anymore, and it’s kind of delightful to see it have a second life as lovely dresses for several Barbie dolls. (They’re mostly held together with rubber bands and scotch tape; no sewing skills necessary.)
Anonymous says
Same! I let my crafty kid raid the donation bin periodically. Some threadbare sparkily leggings got a 4th life as dollhouse curtains.
HSAL says
I love this!
Mary Moo Cow says
Oooh, this is great! Thank you for the idea! My daughter is getting into sewing and giving her some clothes that can’t be donated so she could rip them up and make crafts is a great use of them!
Anon says
Great idea. I’ve spent the long weekend helping my parents’ clean out my childhood home in preparation for selling it, and they have a lot of clothes (including old ice skating costumes) that I’m bringing to my daughter for crafts or pretend play.
Anonymous says
I love this! Thanks for sharing.
DLC says
this is so fun! I used to make dresses for my Barbies out of Kleenex – this is much classier!
Anon says
What do you do to take care of yourself when you have had a super stressful AM with kids/partner and then have a super stressful day at work ahead?
Mary Moo Cow says
Knuckle through and internally grumble about how I’m going to make them pay by taking time for myself but then never do. A more healthy approach would probably be to vent to partner that night and then put some alone time on the books for later in the week. A middle ground I take is writing all of it down in a journal and then ripping out the pages and throwing them away and with it, my resentment.
Anonymous says
haha same. I do think sometimes it makes sense to completely ignore it/push it out of your mind to get through the work stuff. You can’t DO anything while you’re at work anyway to deal with any of the home stuff, so why stress.
I often text my friends or vent to a work buddy if I just need some support during the day.
Anonymous says
I buy myself a fancy coffee. I listen to a silly podcast on my commute to keep my mind from ruminating. Then I usually attempt to schedule a babysitter for later that week and get get a massage or pedicure, or just sit in a quiet restaurant/coffee shop and think my own thoughts.
Clementine says
I put on headphones and blast music that suits my needs while going through email for 15 minutes. If possible, I try and get a coffee from the ‘good’ coffee place down the block, but if that’s not possible, I stare out my office window for 5 minutes, fantasize about running to Spain, then chalk it up to ‘one of those days’.
I’ll often complain to my BFF or post on here if it’s really rotten because I’m someone who really does well with letting it out and then going full Elsa and letting it go. (Related: I have a colored picture of Elsa from a coloring book that my daughter gave me and it’s become a running joke with my staff that I keep it there to remind all of us to ‘Let it Go’.)
OP says
Thanks y’all. I just doordashed myself lunch :)