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AwayEmily says
Can I ask you all for some advice on behalf of a good friend? Her second-grader just got a triple diagnosis: autism (with very low support needs), ADHD, and giftedness. But she’s not sure what to do with the diagnosis because he is, at the moment, doing completely fine. He has friends, he’s doing great in school and isn’t bored, he’s happy. She initially got on an evaluation waitlist because he was struggling a bit socially when they moved (he was in kindergarten), but once he adjusted he was great. Then the evaluation slot opened up two years later so she took it, and got this triple surprise. She’s not sure whether she should try to get accommodations now, in anticipation of future issues? Just hold tight? I was totally unable to advise her but told her I knew an amazing community of people with lots of 2e kids (she was impressed I even knew that term, which I only do thanks to you all!) and I would ask for their thoughts.
Anonymous says
If things are going great, why would she make changes?
AwayEmily says
I have no idea; that’s why I’m asking people who have more experience.
anon says
Just hold tight. But I’m very curious how he got the ADHD diagnosis if he isn’t having some kind of issue at school. Usually a diagnosis is not made unless there are issues in multiple settings (school, home, activities, etc.), teacher evaluations are involved, etc. I’d say it sounds like her child is in a good position for now and to not borrow trouble.
Anon says
“Struggling a bit socially when they moved” – unless there is dramatically more to this story, that alone is not a symptom of any condition. That’s life.
Spirograph says
Same. Literally the diagnostic test for ADHD is a questionnaire for parents and teacher input about behavior. If he’s not having challenges, I don’t know why they’d make the diagnosis.
But in any case, I wouldn’t do anything with this information right now, other than potentially educate myself more about all three diagnoses and consider whether parenting recommendations specific to those differences feel right for my child. It could be useful if the child starts needing more support later, since it will be ready to support a 504 plan or push for gifted services if the child needs them and is not identified by the school’s screening process.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Yes, this. The diagnosis is based on seeing similar behavior across settings, so not sure how they would diagnose just from the appointment (if that’s what happened)? It’s not a blood test. But yes, keep it in the back pocket for now, in case a 504 or otherwise is warranted in the future.
Anon says
yes I’d maybe get a second opinion. though, often, especially for girls, they can be fine at school bc they mask all day and then home life is an absolute disaster. i’d also say do nothing, and keep the info in her back pocket should an issue arise. kind of like if you have a benign tumor that there is nothing to do for at the moment, doctors will monitor its growth etc.
Anon says
Is she even sure about this diagnosis? If she is, I would not get any accommodations. It sounds like they are not needed.
Tbh, this is the sort of thing that frustrates many parents of kids with severe autism. Kids like who you’re describing take up appointment slots when kids who are nonverbal and need to wear helmets to prevent head injury are SOL.
anon says
Sounds like a symptom of over-diagnosing kids more than anything else. “Struggling a bit socially when they moved.” Duh, of course. Seems a little silly she thought she needed an evaluation for something that is completely normal and expected.
Anonymous says
I have a 2e kid and would be extremely suspicious of this diagnosis unless “doing great in school” actually means “gets As but has screaming meltdowns every night about homework.”
Anonymous says
This. We have a kid that we are likely going to have to pursue an ADHD assessment for. He’s smart enough that he has been able to coast on school work for now but the inattentiveness that was age appropriate at kindergarten is problematic in 4th grade even if he’s a top student in the class. Separately him from his twin brother also made it clear how much work his brother was doing in reminding him of stuff like not losing pencils or turning in work during class.
Anonymous says
I have an 8 year old 2e kid that does not have screaming meltdowns about homework because we are in a district with no homework. We have meltdowns about tons of other crap. She’s 2e so especially in young elementary her performance is totally fine. Our neuropsych report said essentially, that she’s too smart to fail, but an “average” performance indicates that she is not focused on the work.
Her 2nd grade teacher was pretty shocked when we shared her Dx but after reading through the report and reflecting on our daughter’s work, then spending a few weeks pushing her harder, she completely saw it.
GCA says
A diagnosis is as useful as the formal support it facilitates; it just indicates that there might be a mismatch with the environment (and the solution is not to change the child, it’s to provide a more supportive environment). If he’s not struggling, I would hold tight, read up, and provide lots of love and attention to create an environment that meets the kid where he is. What opportunities are there to to make the environment a better fit for the kid?
Personal experience: Neither of my kids has a formal diagnosis (but I have some suspicions), but each is happy and neither is struggling (triangulating between their self-reports, their teachers and what we can see), so we are also just sitting tight. In 3rd grade I formally tested as gifted via district-wide testing; it was also clear that the academic (but not the social) environment at my first elementary school was not quite right for me, and in 4th grade I had the opportunity to switch to a school with a G&T program that changed my life in all kinds of wonderful ways.
Anon says
Is he very young, and therefore school issues possibly haven’t shown up yet? Or is he not the squeakiest wheel and so the teachers don’t really notice him?
I ask because I am going through the eval process with my first grader, and part of the reason we waited was because he has been doing great in school (things at home have escalated so much that we now pushed ahead). However, despite the fact that his teachers have nothing negative to say, enjoy having him in class, and he scores very highly on standardized tests, his progress reports show him mostly at level 2 of 4 (“approaching standard”), and he confided in me that when he sits on the rug he bangs his head on the floor to hurt himself (negative self-image/harm is one thing we’ve been seeing at home).
I raise this because maybe there ARE problems at school, but he’s smart enough and good enough to pass under the radar.
Anonymous says
Heyyy, this could be me, except mine is a girl and she doesn’t technically have an autism dx though it’s on the “watch and evaluate.” We are in a state with no gifted programming, so we just passed along the evaluation to the school to have in place. Our report outlined that as she moves into upper grades and the structure/scaffolding/routine of the lower grades is taken away, she may start to struggle with task/time management and also that social issues may pop up. We used that insight, plus the fact that her giftedness may require differentiated learning, to make requests regarding her placement for next year. There are 4 options for teachers and 2 of them would be a bad call for this student profile for various reasons.
We also plan to mention it at the begining of the year next year to her teacher so s/he can keep her challenged, versus teachers in the past who assume “average” is fine for her–when in fact average performance means she’s basically sleeping through class.
Momofthree says
We are similar to this in the sense that early education is going fine (my kid is in 2nd grade) but I have big concerns about what will happen when the pressure level goes up in higher grades. We have had multiple behavioral issues at home & at school so while academically he’s doing well, there’s lots of other stuff we’re dealing with. We also worked with an educational consultant who also specified that teacher choice was key & where we needed to work with the school.
As others have said, I would be very surprised if the situation was “fine” as your friend described. Trying to get services and testing for your kid is a labyrinthine, Kafka-esque ordeal that few (if any) would undertake b/c of some mild behavior isssues. As others have said, it also relies on a teacher report & parent report in addition to the testing so… there’s probably something else going on.
Anonymous says
Just one thought that may not apply here, but: In the US, an autism diagnosis often will unlock insurance coverage for certain therapies that may not be covered otherwise, so peds/neuropsychs may err on the side of diagnosing it even if it’s borderline just to give the parents more options. In our case we were already in OT, but we got additional OT sessions covered by insurance once we got an ASD diagnosis.
AwayEmily says
Thank you all for these thoughtful responses. I’m going to summarize and relay a bunch of this info to her.
Anonymous says
If they happen to be in the DC area, the DC Urban Moms forum has a subforum for kids with special needs that can be helpful.
Anon says
i’ve posted before and things got a bit better for a while, but now they are terrible again since spring break. fraternal twin kindergarteners. from when dinner is over until bedtime is a disaster. they basically both want one on one time with me and nothing to do with DH. we try taking turns and alternating who goes first, and whoever is not with me is basically screaming while DH barricades them in a room. we’ve tried all being together, but everyone is too tired/grumpy to play nicely. Twin B in particular cannot seem to keep herself calm or calm herself down and despite being exhausted doesn’t fall asleep until almost 9pm. This is also hard bc DH has more work to do after bedtime but I am also a human with only so much patience. At dinner yesterday (6pm) she was an absolute delight sharing lots of info about what they learned about at school, etc. Then the switching off actually went better than usual yesterday, but by 7:15pm all h*ll had broken loose. until this year Twin B never had major issues falling asleep or going to bed (she was always my good sleeper) but now seems to have a lot of trouble calming her body down to sleep. maybe someone has an idea we haven’t tried yet.
Anonymous says
Ok I have twins (and an older child). How old are yours?
1) get a babysitter at least once a week. You need a break and they need to learn they can’t hang on you all evening.
2) have you already dropped their naps?
3) we have a regular bedtime routine and always give 5 minute warnings for translations. Their day ends with DH discussing what we did today and what we will do tomorrow. This has done wonders to calm them down. You could even try listening to a recording on the Calm app or YouTube a breathing exercise.
4) ima be honest we watch a lot of tv in the evenings and it doesn’t seem to negatively affect their mood or whether they go to sleep. It gives me a break.
5) my twins are just kind of difficult, sorry to say. Evenings are hard. Sometimes it goes smoothly but most of the time it doesn’t. Everything is a phase, so when it’s hard I tell myself it will get better.
OP says
they are almost 6. they were easier at age 2!
Anonymous says
Sorry, now I see you said kindergarten. My husband often kicks them outside after dinner but they fight. Can you start going on walks with plans to take them to the local pool after dinner this summer? That’s my plan: we’ll see if it works. And definitely get a babysitter. It took me a year to find someone reliable, but it’s really helped. Even if I’m having a terrible week, I think “well at least I don’t have to do bedtime routine Thursday!”
Anonymous says
I would try melatonin for Twin B if she is having that hard a time falling asleep. If you’re not willing to try melatonin, bath or shower after dinner and a weighted blanket are helpful for us. I would focus on both of them enough sleep as a first step and then see if things improve.
OP says
we have given melatonin and it sometimes works, but the last two times i’ve given it (granted i’ve given to both twins), they’ve ended up having a party from 2-4 am. i am not entirely clear as to which child ends up in the middle of the night waking the other one, but maybe I will just try Twin B. we have a weighted stuffed animal that is fairly large (we had a weighted blanket but it was recalled).
Anonymous says
That would make me leery of melatonin too! Some other things that have helped my bad sleeper: magnesium gummies and SleepTabs (talk to your pediatrician), literal blackout shades, a sleeping bag (he likes to be cocooned but one of those stretchy compression sacks might work too), climbing into bed early and listening to a (quiet, not very exciting) podcast with lights out. For him, a long shower or bath (as warm as he can take it) works as well as 1 or 2 mg of melatonin.
Anonymous says
How much outside time do they get in the day?What about a family walk in the evening after supper? Both can hold your hands?
Anonymous says
Adding that in the K and early elementary years, our kids really liked having a color coded schedule on the fridge. It had who picked up, dinner time, my yoga night, DH’s running club night, who read to who each night.
We generally split it that one parent did bath and pjs and the other did reading and tucking in. But having it posted on the fridge gave them a sense of security about having designated time and knowing what would happen when.
OP says
i would love to do this, but DH’s work schedule is unfortunately too variable
Anon says
My comments keep getting eaten! Mom of twins here with a DH who also is gone a lot of nights. You need to stop separating the twins during the bedtime routine, and you need to be with them through the whole routine — or leave the house entirely. It just is what it is. It won’t be like this forever, but there is no world where I could be in the house and not with the twins during bedtime routine OR separate them through the routine. It wasn’t like this with my older singletons, but twins are a different animal. The common advice to push through a non-preferred parent just didn’t work for us.
OP says
varies depending on the day. they are in school from 7:20-2:50. On Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays they spend 1-2 hours after school at a park. Tuesdays they have dance which is indoors. At school the amount of time they spend outside varies on the day, they have outdoor recess, but sometimes also outdoor science or outdoor PE. Monday night we went outside to look for bugs, which turned into a contest/fighting over the bugs. they love each other a lot when in good moods, but when they are ‘off’ it’s like they can’t handle it
Anonymous says
That’s a long day at school and it does sounds like you are getting a lot of outdoor time in.
I suggest dinner, snuggles on couch and watch something low key like Bluey together. Then both you and DH do bedtime routine together. FWIW, our twin boys shared a room until age 9. We had two twin beds, a book case and loveseat in their room. I or DH sat in the middle and read one book each before bed. When we were doing chapter books, I read a chapter. Then they got into bed.
If DH isn’t there every night, I would focus on consistency of timing of dinner, low key time, maybe a small snack then bath/bed/reading.
Anon says
I wonder if switching parents throughout the routine is unsettling them. Perhaps you change to alternating parents each night, or you take one for the team and do them both, but one after the other (I can’t remember if they share a bedroom, but maybe this is a reason to split them). You can get them ready together, then one plays or looks at books in her room while you read to and snuggle the other. It may seem like more work for you, but ultimately will be less if you avoid the meltdowns and get them to sleep on time each night. DH can do his office work during that time.
I also like the idea of a family walk or some sort of active play right after dinner. Maybe dad wrestles/fools with them so they get quality dad time, and you can get a breather before bedtime.
Anon says
I agree with this. I am the preferred parent for my twins, and they love their dad, but they lose their ever loving issssh if I am in the house and not with them at bedtime. I honestly can’t imagine separating them at bedtime or having my husband do bedtime solo for one child without guaranteeing a massive meltdown. It’s just not the right time for one on one time — I think you need to fill that cup at other times, and I know the common advice is to have the non-preferred parent take over without rescue from the preferred parent, but we just….don’t do that. I’ve never managed to get it to work with twins. And, honestly, the screaming meltdowns that ensue are worse for everyone than just having me participate with all three kids if I am home. I leave the house completely if I need space or a break.
Even my older child wants to be near me when we are doing bedtime routine, and he definitely prefers my husband during the rest of the day :) We also keep expectations pretty low after dinner – we start bedtime routine pretty quickly, and move through it as a family. My kids do run outside and swing if it’s light out and warm, but otherwise, I can’t imagine anyone having the bandwidth to do a family game or whatever after dinner during the school year. I might put on the tv to finish dishes with my husband, but otherwise, we just slowly move through the bedtime routine, and leave lots of time for reading together as a group. My twins get along well, but we also intentionally do everything together at bedtime, and I do ensure things are totally equal at bedtime, which is when they are most likely to break down (how many stories each kid picks, how many songs I sing each kid), etc. They can learn to share or that not everything is equal when they have more emotional bandwidth at other parts of the day.
My twins experience separation anxiety like I’ve literally never seen before, and I’m not sure if it’s because they rile each other up or what? But reiterating that I either have to leave or we are all together for the whole routine, and any combination is a total meltdown.
OP says
they do share a bedroom. we’ve thought about separating them, but both kids have resisted and at least for Twin A splitting at night would be REALLY hard bc she is petrified of being alone at night. part of the challenge is that while DH tries to be home for dinner every night, some nights he has to work late or has a dinner or is traveling, so it is hard to have consistent taking turns. i’d be ok spending time with one after the other, but the one whose turn it is not basically will not stay alone. if i am out and DH is solo with them, their behavior is infinitely better. it is like i’m some scarce resource. we do try to give them one on one time each day and/or over the weekend. they fortunately love school, but ever since starting kindergarten the evenings are just so miserable and exhausting. i appreciate all of the suggestions! Twin B has some other things going on so we are about to pursue neuropsych testing and i have a call with the pediatrician tomorrow, but wow i really miss having two year olds!
Anonymous says
I have twins the same age as yours and we had years like this, so I get it. I know child psychologists say you should have one on one time with your kids, but we just don’t do it every day. As you said, the one whose turn it isn’t just doesn’t stay away (unless we turn on the tv, and then no one wants time with me). It sounds like your kids want one on one time, but it isn’t working for you right now. If playing a game all together results in fighting, can you try reading together? Or art? When my kids are really tired but its not bedtime yet, we will put on an audiobook and do something quiet like coloring or those paint your own sticker books. I’ll sit with them and help sometimes, which is a lot of going back and forth helping find stickers for one then the other, but for us doesn’t result in meltdowns.
Also, needing me at bedtime was much worse until last year when I had some parent health issues I had to deal with and I just wasn’t available for bedtime more often (otherwise, I’m always there and DH is there 80% of the time). It was tough, but the total unavailability helped my kids get over the hump of insisting on me doing everything. They still complain, but don’t get as upset.
Good luck! It’s hard!
Anonymous says
I’m sorry! Evenings can be exhausting! I do not have twins but do have 2 feral kids close in age (now 7 and 4.5). Since they’ve been about 4 and 2.5 they get put in the backyard after dinner. Like they finish their dinner and know to run outside. We can see them/supervise but this wears them out and gives us quiet. Of course we have to break up some fights. But yes I think the idea of a walk or neighborhood playground visit could help. We eat at 5 and dinner is at 7/7:30.
OP says
i like the idea of outside time and we could do that for now, but live in a climate where summer is more of our inside time because it is so so hot. we also have to be outside with them in close proxomity bc at this time of day cannot trust them to keep their hands to themselves. when they were younger they almost never physically hurt each other or a parent when mad but now they are much more aggressive
Iris says
I know I personally find this recommendation kind of frustrating, but have you tried starting bedtime significantly earlier? With that early of a school start time at that age, the meltdown would happen at the time they needed to already be asleep/on their way to asleep. They are just done with their day and have no rationality left to give, and going past their natural exhaustion time is a point-of-no-return for behavior.
Anon says
Yeah, I think they may be sleep deprived. It’s tough because that’s *such* an early start (I’m guessing they have to be up by 6 am to make the bus?) but if there’s any way you could move bedtime up I would try.
My daughter just turned 6 and still sleeps 10.5-11 hours per night, so she’d need to be in bed by 7 with that schedule. I know she’s at the higher end of sleep needs, but we really see it in her behavior when she doesn’t get enough sleep.
OP says
fortunately we live close to the school and they wake up at 6:30/6:40am. Our nanny leaves at 6pm. we had been trying to get them into bed by 7:15/7:30 and it basically consisted of them getting out of their beds a million times bc i think they felt they hadn’t gotten enough time with us, so we tried to push it back to getting them into bed by 8. maybe we will try to move it up again a bit and see if that helps. the other night Twin B didn’t fall asleep until almost 10pm and we woke her up the next day at 8:30 (it was not a school day)
Anonymous says
Can you put them in bed but then sit in the dark room reading on your phone? That way they feel like they are “with you” but they’ll probably fall asleep. No talking/playing, just quiet resting with mom nearby.
Anon says
I agree with reading on your phone in the room after they sleep. I think that could help.
Anon says
Help me think through what’s reasonable. We have an event to attend across the country and will have a new infant at the time. There aren’t any great options of people we could leave baby with while traveling and don’t know anyone at the destination who could help ID a trustworthy babysitter there, but my SIL (with whom we are very close and is great with children including at this age) has very kindly offered to travel with us to help with childcare. We will cover her cross country airfare, lodging, and other expenses, and likely also give a gift as well – though I haven’t thought that far ahead. Is it reasonable to ask her to sleep on a sofa bed in a separate room of a shared hotel suite for the two nights? Or is that just wildly out of touch? We’ve never navigated anything like this, and my husband’s family did not travel much when they grew up so not a clear read from past history either. Thanks in advance for thoughts!
Anon says
I think that’s totally fine. You said you are very close, so I can’t imagine sharing a bathroom (which is the main sticking point I can see here) is a big deal. You could also ask her and see what she says, but I am finding it very hard to imagine any decent, sane person would have a problem with this setup.
NYCer says
I agree with this. Talk it through with her, but it sounds reasonable to me.
Anon says
agreed. i think it is totally reasonable.
Anonymous says
The real factor for me would be the privacy question. If the sofa bed is truly in its own room, then that seems fine, especially if you don’t have a lot of control over the lodging particulars because it’s where the wedding party set up a room block. Age also matters–twentysomething me would not have cared about this very much, but fortysomething me would haaaaaate a sofa bed.
Anon says
+1 million to this. Also, I would want some space/separation from even my closest friend in this scenario, AND I would be super angsty about my infant waking her up all night if we were sharing a room.
Anon says
I think she needs her own room. Nobody wants to sleep on a sofa bed.
Anon says
+1. If someone offered to do this for me, I’d spring for a private room with a real bed, no question.
Anon says
+2
Hotel sofa beds are notoriously uncomfortable. She is doing you a huge favor so please get her her own room.
Anonymous says
+3. If you can possibly swing it, I’d get her an adjoining room. You might even ask if she might share in some of the cost? I’ll be honest I probably would have been fine with a sofa bed at 20 but by around 25 I would have been annoyed. Today I could stand up for myself and say “sorry that doesn’t work for me. I’m happy to come but I’m getting my own room.”
Anonymous says
I would have your husband (her brother) talk to her. Also, what does your husband think?
You want her to have her own personal space when you travel. If it’s a crappy sofa bed, I’m not sure. Also, how many nights? and is she like, youthful and 22 and used to sleeping on friends’ couches or old and achy at 40 (like me)?
anon says
No, she’ll hear wake-ups if the baby is up and that’s asking a lot on top of taking of care while you’re out. Plus no adult wants to sleep on a sofa bed. She needs her own hotel room.
Anon says
Maybe you’re all really picky adults. She is doing them a favor by going, but sounds like they are spending a ton to bring her; I can’t imagine expecting my sibling to spend another $200-300 per night because I can’t deal with a sofa bed.
Anonymous says
Adjoining rooms are not often that much more than a suite. Like if rooms are $200 and a suite to get the sofa bed is $350 then it’s worth it to have two rooms and two bathrooms.
Anon says
Counterpoint – depending on the event, one of you goes and one of you stays home with the infant. Obviously everyone has a different comfort level, but I would not do a cross country flight with an infant unless it were dire circumstances. I politely declined to attend a wedding when I was 6 weeks postpartum with a very easy baby and had a very easy 2.5 year old, and no one batted an eye and my husband enjoyed 36 hours of solo time and a quiet hotel room :)
Anon says
I agree this is a good solution. I took an infant on lots of flights (including solo to Hawaii when she was 11 months) and don’t think flying with one infant is super challenging, but I would have been a hard pass on flying before 2 month vaccines. And I let my husband go solo to his sister’s graduation at 3 months because it was a short trip and it seemed easier to stay home alone for <48 hours than lug a baby across the country for such a brief trip.
Anon says
+1. This all seems like more trouble than it’s worth.
But if you already took SIL up on her offer and she is looking forward to the free trip (which she totally deserves), I would get her a separate hotel room.
Anonymous says
Adjoining hotel rooms so that she doesn’t have to go out into the hallway. Then if she is sitting in the evening, the baby can be in your room with the adjoining doors opened and just close the doors when you get back.
An.On. says
In my opinion: if you’re at a place in your life where your friends would help you move for some pizza and beer, then a sofa bed seems fine. If you’re at a point in your life where you’d just hire movers, then I would spring for a separate hotel room or real bed for her.
Anon says
I think you can ask her about her preferences.
Personally I would not help a friend move at this stage in my life but I’d be ok with a sofa bed. Others probably feel the opposite. Just talk to her.
Anonymous says
I may be in the minority but I think this is totally fine and I’d be very willing to sleep on a sofa bed for 2 nights to help out my relatives. I’m 36. I have kids and can deal with crappy sleep better now, after having young kids, than I probably did in my 20s. A lot of people on this site are super uppity. We shared a hotel room with my mother in law so she could watch our baby while we were at a wedding. It was not a big deal. Your husband and sister in law likely shared a lot of spaces growing up, they can do it again for like 2 nights.
Anon says
Same. Maybe I’m committing a huge faux pas but when we have guests sleep at our house, they sleep on a sofa bed lol. We don’t have a guest room.
Anonymous says
Is this a sofa bed in a living room or shared space or a sofa bed in a separate bedroom?