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Sales of note for 9.10.24
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Kid/Family Sales
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Preschooler Clothes says
When did your kid start wearing “real” clothes to school? My son is 3.5 and pretty much wears sweatpants and a long sleeve tshirt to school every day. I see most of the boys his age at school wearing jeans, but my son has a strong preference for cozy clothes as he calls them. I don’t think it’s a sensory thing because he will wear nice clothes for special events.
Anon says
My kids started in jeans and “real clothes” in preschool and most of K, when they were still amendable to me picking out their clothes for school, but after that most boys in elementary school wear sweats and athletic clothes. So I think that’s just how it’ll be for the next chunk of years for your son.
We also require nice clothes for events and church, so I give them more leeway the rest of the time.
Anonymous says
This has been my experience as well. My oldest wore Jeans/joggers/chinos and t shirts for pre-k and kinder, but I also dressed him or helped most days. This year (first grade) he wants to emulate the 3rd and 4th grade boys, which means leggings under athletic shorts and a tech tee. I have him dress nicely for church and special events; otherwise he can pretty much dress how he wants. I’m just entering the stage of wanting to give him more autonomy while also teaching that certain clothes aren’t appropriate for certain events.
Cb says
My son had a business casual phase as a toddler, khakis and plaid button downs but has been in leggings/joggers ever since. He’s in uniform now, but black joggers or leggings are fine, so that’s what he wears.
Vicky Austin says
“Had a business casual phase as a toddler” is both the funniest string of words I have heard in a while and also seems very on brand for your kanji-writing kiddo!
Anon says
I know a blogger with three boys who were all under three at the same time and she had them dressed what I would consider formally every day – loafers, cable-knit sweaters, Oxfords. It can be done from very young ages apparently!
Anon says
Is this Mackenzie Horan? I like her a lot but she’s definitely got three little banker toddler boys.
Anonymous says
If she’s a mommy blogger aren’t all her photos staged?
Anon says
It is indeed. She seems like a really nice person but I can’t imagine spending that much on formal toddler clothes.
Anon says
That seems exhausting and I don’t see the point. Babies and toddlers are adorable even in casual clothes.
Anonymous says
I don’t even think babies and toddlers look cute in dress pants and dress shirts. They are so little that all the buttons and zippers and layers of fabric just look rumply and messy. For infant boys I prefer the dressy romper things and for toddler boys I like short pants for dress-up. If I’d had a boy I would have dressed him like Christopher Robin on fancy occasions.
Anon says
Agree, and this is a pet peeve of mine. Parents are choosing form over function. Babies and toddlers shouldn’t have their motion and comfort restricted by “cute” clothes
Anonymous says
This seems so impractical and uncomfortable to me though. Kids want and need hours of outdoor play a day. This is not comfortable in loafers.
Anon says
We never really used sweatpants, but my 6 year old kindergartner (girl) still wears leggings pretty much every day, as do most of her classmates. A lot of the boys wear sweatpants or track pants.
avocado says
Never? I would say well under half of the boys and girls at my daughter’s high school are wearing “real” clothes on any given day. It could be worse than sweats–some of them wear pajama pants. There is allegedly a dress code but it’s mainly used as a way for teachers to target kids who annoy them for other reasons.
Redux says
came here to say this!
Anonymous says
DS is in pre-K and wears a lot of jeans and corduroys. Personally I’d prefer to keep him in “real” clothes forever, but based on what I see the older kids wearing (he’s in a K-12 school) we’re destined for sweatpants and t-shirts eventually.
Anon says
My pre-K son (3 yo) wears a mix. We do “cozy pants” (polished looking sweat pant joggers) 1-2 times per week. The rest of the week he wears chino joggers or jeans. For tops: mix of sweaters, thermal long sleeves, polos and long sleeve t-shirts. He doesn’t seem to complain or have a preference (yet).
AwayEmily says
My kids are 2nd and K and neither of them wears hard pants. 2nd grader (girl) wears leggings every day. Kindergartener (boy) wears basically jeggings (“Girls faux-denim leggings” from Target) every day. He looks like he is wearing skinny jeans, it is very cute.
I do not plan on ever pushing my kids to wear jeans unless they express a preference for doing so. Cozy clothes are so much more comfy!
Anonymous says
Mine wore gymboree pull on jeans all the time in primary because they held up great for outside play. I used to put them in sweatpants only on days they had phys ed. In upper elementary sweats/athletic clothes are cool so they never touch their jeans.
Anonymous says
All my kids (3 under 10) wear leggings (daughter) or sweats (sons) every day. Just as I prefer joggers or leggings over “real” pants!
anon says
My girls (early elementary school) will wear jeans on occasion, but vastly prefer leggings (with tshirts or dresses).
Anon says
Yeah, I think the answer may be ‘never.’ Based on what I observe volunteering in my kid’s elementary (K-3), jeans are not popular. A decade ago I would have said they probably start wearing denim in upper elementary or middle school, but now I think athleisure is trendier than denim.
Anon says
At 3.5, “school” to me is essentially daycare/play. If he’s comfortable wearing this, let him wear it. Most kids will let you know when they are unhappy with their clothing choices. My 5 year old still wears leggings every day. She will 100% tell me when she wants jeans. She will get dressed up for special occasions, but she’d revolt at having to wear that kind of stuff to play in for any length of time.
Anonymous says
My 11 year old still wears sweats and t-shirts all the time.
Anonymous says
I find it important that preschoolers dress comfortably for active play and in clothes that can get dirty. I also had a sensory sensitivity older kid. I always put them in sweats for preschool (and more than one teacher thanked me!). My older one we switched to pull on twill joggers with reinforced knees at age 5 when he put holes in all his sweatpants. At 9 he is back in tech type athletic pants because none of his friends wear chinos and he wants to play sports very actively at recess and pE. Younger one is in mostly sweats in kindergarten with some twill joggers.
Anonymous says
My 4.5yo boy just got more into jeans and likes to “look handsome.” My 7yo girl is ALL over the place. She actually likes jeans, dresses with tights, leggings and shirt. I can’t tell her how to dress.
Anonymous says
My husband and I have a meeting scheduled next week with our 4.5yo daughter’s teachers. I’m looking for some guidance or good questions to ask the teachers.
As background, E is our oldest, and she has an 8 month old sister. E is in her second year of a Children’s House program at a Montessori School. It follows true Montessori programming. E has attended the school since she was 2yo (she started in the toddler program for one year). E has a very strong-willed personality and is having trouble regulating her emotions when she gets upset. Some examples that the teachers have given are that she will yell “no” at her teacher or disrupt other students when she does not want to do what the teacher is asking. According to the teacher, E will also escalate. We do notice these behaviors at home and try to address them with consistent responses: ask E to please use her indoor voice, take a deep breath, walk away for a bit, divert her attention, and time out when she escalates. We always talk about why there are consequences, etc. We also have implemented a reward system (both small for good days and larger for good weeks). E’s teacher has been communicating with us on a daily basis over the last two weeks about E’s “defiant” behavior and “escalations.”
Over the last two years E’s lead teacher has had concerns. When E had just turned three, this teacher was concerned that E was not vocalizing her emotions, was not following directions the first time asked, and was not always finishing tasks that she began. The teacher suggested we have E evaluated. We did, and it turns out there were no language, social or other issues found. This year E’s teacher had concerns that E was not having appropriate social relationships. If a friend asked E a question (such as “how was your day?”), E answered but did not always reciprocate.
E attends before and aftercare at the school. We have not had more than a handful of reports in the last three years from the teachers that run those programs, and I think those were related to minor injuries but no real issues. E also attends a toddler program at our church every Sunday morning for a few hours. In over two years, the teachers have mentioned issues only a handful of times, and those were related more towards potty training. And, her Sunday School teacher is a former early childhood education teacher. We do recognize that E has big emotions, and as mentioned, we work with her on this daily. We have two flex babysitters that help watch E and her sister on in-service days at our house. One is a former daycare director, and one is trained in early childhood education. Both of them have recognized that E is strong willed, but there have been no actual issues that we know of.
We know of at least two children with the same teacher who have had similar issues. One child’s parents even pulled the child from the school last year because of these issues. My parents were both educators, and I truly support teachers. And, I fully recognize that E needs to work on appropriate. However, the feedback is coming from primarily this one teacher. Also, this teacher’s personality is extremely bubbly, and during parent observation nights, I can see how she is a bit of a micromanager.
I want to ensure I can ask appropriate questions next week about what expectations this teacher has, and what proper expectations for a 4.5 year old are. Any advice you have to prepare for this meeting would be helpful. Thanks!
Anon says
I am biased because I know three really nice kids who were kicked out of Montessori schools, but I think Montessori isn’t a fit for the personality type you describe (strong-willed and sensitive), which my daughter is also. It may be too late to move schools if you’re starting K in the fall, but I wouldn’t be overly concerned about this teacher’s opinion. If you’re doing another year of Pre-K, I would think seriously about moving to a non-Montessori program. My daughter did great in play-based preschool and has thrived in kindergarten.
Emotional regulation aside, this comment (“This year E’s teacher had concerns that E was not having appropriate social relationships. If a friend asked E a question (such as “how was your day?”), E answered but did not always reciprocate. “) is bonkers. 4 year olds interact by taking about themselves in turn. They don’t ask each other questions the way adults do.
Anonymous says
This is why Montessori is a poor fit for many children.
Anonymous says
+100000
It’s amazing when it’s the right fit and a disaster when not. Maybe switch to something play based or a forest preschool if there is one in your area.
anon says
Montessori is going to be a poor fit for most strong-willed children, I’m afraid.
Anonymous says
It sounds like this particular program may not be a good fit for your child. And I say this as a mom of multiple children who did Montessori, including my spirited child who got kicked out of a Montessori program and is now thriving at a different school. I beg you, please do not ignore your child’s struggles in an effort to “support teachers. You are the best advocate your child has.
Anon says
+1, great framing. Your obligation is to support your child’s needs, not her teacher’s (unreasonable) expectations.
Anon says
This is a them problem. Your kid sounds fine. She’s sounds a lot like mine, actually, who I perceive to be smack dab in the middle of the ‘compliant’ to ‘defiant’ spectrum among her classmates.
Your kid sounds like they are escalating because the school sucks. Those expectations seem pretty unreasonable – are there 4 years in the world who don’t say no all the time? And I don’t even reciprocate all the time in social interactions – I don’t want to be friends with everyone. Is that not allowed?
Anonymous says
Why is she still in this school? This meeting is because they want you to leave. Take her out of Montessori it clearly isn’t working for her and get her in a normal program. If not right now certainly a different place for the summer and normal school in the fall.
Anon says
Yeah strong agree. My kids have both gone to montessori for early years but switched the older around age 3 and anticipate same for younger – was too rigid and not enough space to be creative and playful for her.
Anonymous says
I have a kid like yours, who is now 8. Consider switching schools. Montessori isn’t for everyone.
My kid is socially immature, but turns out she’s also highly gifted, so she had some behaviors that were…off putting…at times. Honestly, still does. She would have HATED montesssori.
That said, if she’s going to K next year, maybe ride it out til June and put her in summer camp. But don’t leave her in Montessori until September!
Anon says
I’m generally of the “why would you leave pre-K early and bring the summer camp madness upon yourself before you have to” school of thought, but assuming she’s going to K in the fall, I think sticking it out here until May and then switching to summer camp is probably the right option.
Anonymous says
We did Montessori for a year with DS and had a generally good experience, but man, I would not send DD to a Montessori school. She sounds like your daughter and she would haaaaate it. To give you a view from the other side, and why I love my 3.5yo’s school: her teachers have such a good attitude about kids being kids, toddlers being toddlers. If you can’t deal with potty training accidents and post-nap grumpiness and sharing cat fights without a healthy sense of humor, why are you even doing the job? We had DD’s teacher conference last week and spent the whole time swapping stories with her teachers about DD’s antics. They clearly love her and she loves them, but they also appreciate her, ah, quirks. Above all, I feel like we are collaborators in problem-solving how to constructively help her self-regulate her emotions. I really value that.
Anon says
This was my kid, though in a more traditional (not Montessori) preschool. We received these reports for her 3yo year class (2020-21 COVID year) and her pre-k class. We dismissed them as COVID challenges for kid and for us with teacher communication being limited. Then we showed up to our kindergarten parent teacher conference and six weeks into the school year, we were hearing the same feedback. We had our challenges at home and at a very structured summer camp but chalked it up to personality factors.
We connected with a psychologist for evaluation, feeling like we were doing ourselves and her a disservice if we didn’t. She was diagnosed with a condition that made total sense and a treatment plan with supports that has informed how we parent and what school and childcare environments we choose. We moved her to a small private school and she is thriving. Not without some bumps in the road but having that diagnosis insight, treatment plan to follow and some early wins to stay committed to her treatment plan…that has been amazing for her success socially and academically and makes it easier for us to parent her.
I’m deliberately not mentioning her diagnosis bc what matters here is evaluating what your kid needs. Changing out of Montessori may only be a piece of what she needs. We found the psychologist and our pediatrician so helpful and check in occasionally with the psychologist for specific challenges as they pop up.
Anonymous says
In this case, though, OP’s child already had the recommended evaluation and nothing was found, and multiple other families have had similar issues with this particular teacher. When you hear hoofbeats, suspect horses, not zebras. I’d put her in a normal school and see what happens before jumping to another evaluation.
Teachers are quick to blame their own poor performance on children’s issues. When a child does have a legitimate diagnosed issue this becomes even more of a risk. When your classroom management strategy or teaching method is just plain ineffective even for neurotypical children, it’s not the kids’ fault.
Anon says
The teacher’s expectations for 4 year olds are so clearly out of whack with normal 4 year old behavior and OP’s kid doesn’t seem to have any issues in other environments, so it’s pretty clear to me that the issue here is the teacher, not OP’s kid. I think it’s a very different story if multiple teachers are having a problem with the same kid, but this is clearly a teacher problem not a kid problem.
Anonymous says
Not all kids fit with all preschools unfortunately. It can be very stressful. The issues you note sound normal for the age, but unfortunately normal can still be disruptive enough at this age that a preschool decides they don’t want to / can’t/ aren’t staffed to deal with it .
But… the concern about not finishing work… that is a huge beef I have with Montessori overall. I can’t get over that materials are meant to be used for one thing and you have to do it a certain way and finish it. So if you don’t have that same beef with Montessori, I could see that you might see that concern differently (for me this a 100 percent normal thing for that age).
Anonymous says
This. Not all kids fit in all preschools. My son goes to outdoor/forest preschool which is a WONDERFUL fit for my high energy and physically robust child. He has a classmate who is advanced academically but with poor muscle tone and social skills more akin to a 2yo (with a very permissive parent). So this classmate can’t hike far or throws toys at other kids heads. It’s not a good fit.
Anon says
Is switching classrooms an option, if you otherwise like the school? It sounds like the teacher is having trouble dealing. We go to a Montessori, though it is not very traditional. There are certainly kids that have behavioral issues and the teachers work with them. There has been a kid or two that needed to switch classrooms, but it seems to have all worked out.
Anon says
“When E had just turned three, this teacher was concerned that E was not vocalizing her emotions, was not following directions the first time asked, and was not always finishing tasks that she began“
Isn’t this just 3? Sounds like a bad fit combined with unrealistic expectations.
Anon says
Yeah, this is hilarious. This is 3 year olds! I mean, I guess somewhere there must be a perfect 3 year old who never gets mad and always does as they’re told, but I think it’s very much not the norm at this age. This teacher sounds like teacher version of a POOPCUP!
Anonymous says
Montessori teachers can afford to act like POOPCUPS because they have the freedom to kick out or drive away every kid who doesn’t fit the mold.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
+1 million to this.
There are so many things about Montessori I think would be great for my DS #2 (he’s 3). He’s so hands-on and tactile, loves figuring playing with “real” things around the house, etc.
However, I’ve held back on fully exploring this because of some of the expectations that just wouldn’t work for him – he needs a lot of space to scream and run free :)
Anonymous says
Talk to me about the world of braces. My 12 year old has been recommended to get braces. We have a quote. Is this like car shopping—do I shop around?
We were referred to this orthodontist a few years ago by our dentist and they have been seeing kid 1-2x/year to ensure there was enough space as kid’s adult teeth came in. Never recommended any intervention until now. I’m not opposed to getting them (I had them and am very happy with my teeth), just don’t know if I should be shopping around. I’m in a large urban area—finding another orthodontist isn’t difficult, just takes time (ha, time).
Anon says
I wouldn’t visit 10 orthodontists or anything, but I think getting a second opinion about braces is fairly normal, and I would, even if you fully expect to get the braces.
Anonymous says
Our dentist advised having consultations with two or three different orthodontists before making a decision. We found that the cost for braces was similar but the overall treatment strategy varied a lot. I would also talk with other parents whose children have completed treatment. We chose the orthodontist who initially seemed to have the most conservative treatment strategy but later did a hard sell on some extras that I don’t think were strictly necessary or even beneficial. Unfortunately my husband insisted that we follow her recommendations without going back out for second opinions, which I think cost us a lot of money and our child a lot of discomfort and less favorable results.
AwayEmily says
Also, when is it normal to get braces? My daughter’s 8yo friend just got them! That seems ridiculously early! But maybe things are different now?
Anonymous says
Depends on the mouth. If they need things like palate expanders, some start at 8-9 now. My 10 year old still has lots of baby teeth left to lose and doesn’t need palate expansion so the ortho has her on a biannual checkup plan. She most certainly needs braces (two teeth are sideways) but not yet. Her bff has had them since 3rd grade.
Anonymous says
The current standard seems to be one set of braces at age 8-10 to straighten out the top front teeth for temporary cosmetic purposes, then the “real” braces around age 12 once the permanent molars are in to really fix things. Every orthodontist we consulted said the first set of braces was not strictly necessary and would not affect the final result, and our dentist confirmed this. Before the first set of braces there is also usually a palate expander to make room for the permanent teeth, which under current practice is considered necessary.
Anon says
Omg, this world. Why would you pay money for cosmetic, non-necessary braces for an 8yo, knowing that you will be paying for a complete fix down the road?
Anonymous says
We opted out of the first set of braces until the orthodontist did a hard sell directly on our child
(you don’t want to wait until you are TWELVE to have straight teeth, do you?) and my husband caved and demanded that I consent. It was gross.
Anon says
It’s common now to do shorter rounds, with the first round often being as young as first or second grade.
EP-er says
Orthodontics have changed a lot since I had them! I got mine on in 6th grade and had them until just before I started 12th. But now they do a “phase one” in earlier elementary to help the teeth come in better (might include an expander and/or braces) which last 6-18 months. Then they come off and see how the rest of the permanent teeth come one. Your child may or may not need a “phase two” after a few years. Definitely get two opinions before starting treatments — ask around friends’ parents. I agree with prices are (unfortunately) the same, but treatment plans vary.
Anonymous says
I’d shop opinions, not dollars. The price is probably not going to change much, but different orthodontists will have different approaches on timing, equipt meant etc.
For example, one ortho was ready to get my kid in braces now (age 10). The second suggested a spacer, then once the tooth is in evaluate braces vs tooth extraction then braces based on where the tooth ends up.
Both quotes us $6500 for the full treatment plan. Ortho #2’s plan was partially covered by dental insurance as spacers are preventative, but we didn’t make the decision on dollars. (We made the decision on my experience with a very similar mouth setup!).
Anonymous says
My almost-9 y/o is halfway through a round of Invisalign. We were told when she was a toddler that braces were inevitable, as there is just not enough space in her mouth for her teeth to come in. This ortho prefers Invisalign because of the better ability to clean teeth and it is supposed to be less painful since the tweaks are gradual. The downside, of course, is a small child with something to keep track of. As it turns out, my kid couldn’t stop playing with them during the day, so we switched to night only wear (12 hours per day). It is slower, in terms of progress, but it’s been working well for our family.
There are several other kids with braces/Invisalign in her grade; the two-round solution is definitely a thing.
anon says
This is sort of an odd question, but here it goes. A number of couples in our social circle have gotten divorced recently, including people we’re close to: my sister (who we’re very close to), our next-door neighbors (whose daughter is DD’s best friend), and family friends (one couple was close enough to go on vacation with). My 9-year-old seems to be having a hard time with this and keeps “checking in” to make sure DH and I are okay, asking if we’ve ever thought about divorcing (no), etc. She’s seeing her cousins and friends moving from house to house, and it has affected how much time she gets to spend with them on weekends.
This morning, I was annoyed with DH over a very minor issue and I guess I let my annoyance show because Kiddo started tearing up and asking if I was going to fight with Daddy when he got home. Now … DH and I rarely fight at all, and if we do argue, it doesn’t last long and is not in front of the kids. We have a solid marriage and show affection in front of our kids. But clearly,the idea of divorce is weighing on my kiddo, and I’m not sure what to say or do, other than to reassure her that her parents are doing fine and she doesn’t need to worry. She’s asked for reasons why people get divorced, and I am absolutely not giving specifics about the people we know. With my sister and BIL, she has asked whether BIL is still her uncle, and I really don’t know how to answer that one. Our relationship with him will be limited to him being the kids’ father. And she knows that since the family friends divorced, we have only maintained a relationship with one-half of the couple (infidelity was involved, the marriage blew up spectacularly, one spouse showed their true colors).
TBH, DH and I are sad about some of these breakups, too. It’s been a lot of change to process, and adult relationships/friendships have changed irrevocably. And maybe that’s all I can do, to reassure her that it’s sad and it’s OK to feel sad. But it feels like I could or should be doing more, and yet I don’t know what that would be.
Anonymous says
I’m not an expert in this at all. My gut would be that you’re right to directly address her fears about you and DH. Maybe even have a sit down with all of you so she can ask questions and you can present a unified front.
Beyond that, I think you could use what’s happening as an opportunity to teach her about healthy relationships and how to make sure that she can develop them in her own life. I don’t think as parents we spend enough time on this.
anon says
You’re probably right that I should talk to my kids more explicitly about what healthy relationships look like. Both of my kids seem to have the impression that adults have a “big fight,” and BAM, divorce. When of course we know it’s much more nuanced and complicated than that.
Man, this stuff is hard.
Anonymous says
Your daughter is dealing with partial information–there are bad things happening that other people know things about and aren’t telling her. Her own family (her uncle) is apparently walking out of her life and she can’t know what’s happening. She and her friends and cousins thought things were fine, and yet look what happened. As a grown adult, those are circumstances that would start making me mistrust and feel insecure! It’s probably shaking your world a little as well, to have these divorces happening around you.
In a sense, this is a type of coming-of-age for her. And for you, with your kid now experiencing the consequences of adult-level misbehavior. I’d let her know it’s OK to be sad and confused. Grieve the losses and changes with her. Tell her that you’re upset, too. But that doesn’t mean that anything has changed with you and her dad. We can feel these bad things and yet still be solid and loving and secure.
If possible, let her see you and her dad not only argue but also let her hear you resolve a disagreement so she knows that conflict doesn’t mean It’s Over.
SC says
My 8 year old has been asking about divorce recently too. It came up because DS wanted to know about his family tree, and we explained that DH’s parents are divorced and remarried, and that’s why he has 4 grandparents and so many aunts and uncles and cousins (DH has a sister and 4 step-siblings). Nobody close to us has gotten divorced recently or is getting divorced. We have focused our answers on reassuring DS about that we love each other, and we’re not getting divorced. It’s normal and healthy for people to disagree, and we talk about our disagreements and work them out. Sometimes people who live together get irritated with each other, but they apologize and forgive each other. We also tell him that even when parents get divorced, they both still love their children and still take care of them.
AwayEmily says
My kids’ godmothers just got divorced and so we’ve been talking about this a lot. The line I’ve been taking is that sometimes, two people don’t make each other happy any more, and they decide they would be happier living on their own. But that their father and I make each other incredibly happy — we are each other’s favorite people in the world — and that is unlikely to change.
Anonymous says
At the suggestion of this community, I bought the book Amazing You to discuss my daughter’s private parts, etc. with her several years ago. She is now 8, and I’d like a more age appropriate resource I can go through with her. I could just talk with her, but I think she gets a lot from the book, and I appreciate the resource myself. So, any recommendations for books for an eight year old girl to discuss her body? Is this too young to truly describe where babies come from? I’m open to that as I’d really like her to feel comfortable having conversations about sex with me from a young age. I’m also open to her learning male anatomy now. But I also don’t know what’s recommended?
Anonymous says
I will make my usual recommendation for the Girlology program if you can find it in person. There is one about periods and one about reproduction. I found the in-person interaction with puppets, examples of br@s, etc. that the kids could see and touch to be valuable. There’s an on-line program too but I haven’t looked at it.
Anon says
If the Care and Keeping of You is still in print, I loved that book growing up. Otherwise, I would focus on finding something that uses the correct terms for female anatomy (and for girls/women) and maybe focus on that before male anatomy.
Anonymous says
It is and it is great.
I talked to my 8 year old about the mechanics of how babies are made, and she basically didn’t believe me and was uninterested in hearing more. I emphasized that she should come to me with questions because kids say a lot of things that are not true or half true, but otherwise I’ve left it alone. Other friends’ kids have had a lot of questions and were more interested in the details.
anonamommy says
It is great for puberty and body changes, but does not include LBGTQ perspectives, if that’s something you’re sensitive to. I would love to find something that is more inclusive as well.
anon says
I just listened to the neatest podcast about how that book was written! They keep updating it btw so its more up to date then the one we read as kids.
https://thisislovepodcast.com/episode-82-the-care-and-keeping-of-you/
Anonymous says
Not too young at all IMO. I would look at “It’s so Amazing” by Robie Harris. I think we actually had the version for younger kids, but it was very solid.
Anonymous says
It’s too old! Why doesn’t she already know where babies come from.
Anonymous says
Wow, thanks for your support and the reminder why it has been such a long time since I’ve posted here. Also, (1) she knows generally, and (2) hasn’t really asked about details. I’d like to go into more detail with her.
anon says
ugh, ignore this comment.
Anon says
I mean, maybe the delivery wasn’t the best but I agree with the sentiment. Average age of p*rn exposure these days is as young as 7, so that is my target age for laying the groundwork. I described s*x to my oldest at 5.5 (he was totally cool with it) and plan to get there soon with my 6.5 yo. My oldest and I have had many conversations since, and we just had a more thorough p*rn convo the other night.
Treat it matter-of-factly to start, and as they get older start building your family’s opinions and values into the discussion. The younger, the better to start
anon says
I can’t speak to resources but as to if she’s too young – I had a general ‘where do babies come from’ with my kid when he was 5 and I was pregnant. We had the more specific conversation about how babies were made when he was in 4th grade (9.5 years old, maybe?) and he was HORRIFIED but also delighted to share what he’d learned with his friends, and it was new information to about half of them.
So from my frame of reference of 1, 8 might be a little young but not by much.
Anon says
The younger they are, the less likely to be horrified IME. Plus, I want my kid hearing it from me, not his friends — I know your son was probably spreading accurate information, but many aren’t. So 9 is probably a little late
Redux says
I checked out three books from the library and skimmed them all before deciding which one to give to my daughter. I tried Care and Keeping of You, It’s Perfectly Normal, and Celebrate Your Body and It’s Changes Too. I settled on the latter as in line with where I felt she was developmentally and what would resonate with me in terms of sparking and sustaining a conversation. I was looking for something mostly about puberty and her own body, rather than strictly where babies come from.
Having never had this conversation with my own mother I have to say I was pretty nervous! And I feel good about breaking down generational shame and giving myself grace about doing this without having had an example. It went better than I expected and I hope sets the stage for open communication and trust in the future.
You’ve got this, mama!
anon says
How comfortable are you with the prospect of her learning these things from her peers (that may be untrue or contrary to your values) before you get a chance to explain things? Do you want plenty of opportunity to teach her your values?
I recommend teaching as much as she’s up for and considering It’s Perfectly Normal or the companion book for younger kids.
I was really happy to teach a lot at home before the onslaught of 4th graders’ chatter on this topic (some kids have middle school siblings whose perspective is just as immature and ill-informed as what I recall from middle school). It wasn’t the most comfortable thing for me at first, but I’ve gotten a lot better at talking about these things. I am grateful my kids have a solid grounding in factual information and my values and they’re comfortable talking to me about these things, all well before puberty (when it’s common for kids to really not want to talk to their parents about this kind of thing).
CCLA says
From the same team as It’s So Amazing and It’s Perfectly Normal (both recommended above), It’s Not the Stork was great as well, targeted a bit younger, in case any readers are looking for something in between Amazing You (which was great for preschool) and the ~8yo set.
Anonymous says
WWYD? 5.5 year old boy has been mostly dry at night for months but occasionally no. After two weeks of dry pull ups we’ve been doing undies at night. First five nights were great. Wet the bed last night. Back to pull ups? See what happens a few more nights? I’m not alarmed by this, mostly happy to wait it out (my brother was probably 7 before he was dry at night), just trying to scheme what will work for this kid and also whether I should keep or return the giant unopened box of pull ups I would need to open.
Anon says
I’m lazy but I’d just keep him in pullups.
AwayEmily says
Same. And in fact we did literally this — my son ditched the pullups right after his sixth birthday, was fine for a week or so, then had two accidents in four days and I was like NOPE let’s try again after we get through this massive box of pullups. I need my sleep, and so does he.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
+1 – DS #1 was done with them right after 5, and DS #2 (3) is potty training, and I have 0 plans to take away the nap/nighttime pull up until he’s 100% there. Multiple peds have mentioned it’s pretty standard, especially for boys, to have a night pull-up until age 7.
I’m always shocked/impressed when friends (IRL and here) talk about their 3 and 4 year olds getting up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom.
Anon says
I would keep trying and see what happens. Maybe this is weird, but I found this helpful in the in-between stage to make accident cleanup easier: https://www.target.com/p/waterproof-sleep-anywhere-kids-39-pad-gray-pillowfort-8482/-/A-75569208
Anonymous says
Interesting! He just took off his pjs and undies and moved to a different section of the bed – I think he didn’t notice till he woke up. We do have a good waterproof mattress pad.
Anon says
I laid it on top of the sheets so that we could avoid changing the sheets in the middle of the night. We had a couple misses, but it mostly kept everything clean. We had mattress pad for that scenario.
Anon says
I’d keep going, too. I’ve anecdotally heard that dairy at night can make it more likely to wet the bed. Do you notice a link like that? Or perhaps he’s extra tired on those nights?
Anonymous says
No specific pattern and usually it’s only a tiny bit. (Unlike our older son who soaked through a pull up and extra liner nightly for several years… but once he was dry somewhere around 4.5-5 he never had an accident ever.) We’ve never had any correlations between specific foods and this kind of thing.
Anon says
My kid had an accident in the first week but rarely since
DLC says
I mean as much as a night time wetting is a pain in the butt to deal with, I would keep going with the underwear and see what happens. I think it’s better for his sense of accomplisent. One accident after five nights is actually pretty good. My seven year old wets the bed at least once month when we forget to pee before bed.
anonamama says
It’s my last day before maternity leave, welcoming the baby we worked so hard to have and going from 1 ->2. Anything I can do now for my future self, work-wise?
And I have scoured the threads, but top transition from 1-2 tips??? (DS is 4yo).
thanks Hive!
AwayEmily says
No advice but four years is an AMAZING age gap. My middle and youngest are now 6 and 2 and have such a special relationship.
Mary Moo Cow says
Get a housecleaner, if you don’t already have one. At an appointment after baby 2, my ob said to DH and me: you two
can’t be for real, you must disagree about something, like vacuuming. He immediately replied, we hired a cleaner. It was in jest, but not really. That and relaxing standards for a few weeks after baby 2 are my top tips: it might be fast food 3 nights a week, it might be wrinkled clothes instead of fresh out of the dryer, it might be crumbs on the countertops at night, but give yourself and your partner some slack until having 2 kids becomes the norm. Accept the help that is offered and do your best not to gripe that it isn’t the way you would have done it. Wishing you an easy delivery and a smooth transition to a family of 4!
Anon says
If you’re going to be pumping in your office – get a mini-fridge. My firm had one, so that’s moved into my office, but I would definitely pay personally if they hadn’t offered. I pump at my desk 3 times a day and bill the whole time. I keep all my parts in a stasher bag (like a permanent zip loc) and refrigerate in between.
Also, ymmv but I kept in touch with my team and top clients during mat leave so that I wasn’t blindsided on return. It was mostly delegation, not billable work.
2 says
there will always be a laundry basket of clothes to put away in your room, that’s just how it is now. don’t feel guilty about it.
Anon says
You’re doing well if you didn’t get to that point until 2 kids ;) I only have one and perpetually have laundry to put away.
Anonymous says
Question inspired by a post above about Montessori school. What is the difference between a Montessori preschool and a “play based” pre school? I only have one kid, and he’s a Montessori preschool. We at at this school because it’s full day, and it was literally the only daycare we got into, and not because we’re Montessori diehards. I don’t have any experience with any other type of school, but his school has all certified Montessori teachers, and they follow the Montessori methods (at least that’s what they say; the website says, and what it appears to be based on my very limited research on what Montessori style/philosophy is). But, at 4.5, having been there since he was 15 months old, it appears to be just all playing? Yeah; they have “works” and things are organized on shelves and all of that, but the works appear to be largely normal kid toys and arts and crafts. Some of them are clearly not typical kid toys that you’d get at the toy store (like the beads used for skip counting practice in the primary classrooms), but this appears to be a very small percentage of the works. So I am curious what happens at a”play based” school. I just see a lot of comments on here that Montessori isn’t for everyone, but I don’t know what would be dramatically different in other preschools (other than they probably do that celebrate Peace Day like our school does!!! Biggest day of the year.)
Anon says
Maria Montessori believed “play is the work of the child” so yes, working will look like playing. The difference is there are a lot of specific materials and progressive skills that are focused on in Montessori; for example, kids may start with a “work” that involves pouring beans and then progress to pouring water from a little pitcher.
Play-based is more broad, and instead of specific materials they will have toys. Probably more things like Duplo and dolls and a pretend kitchen, etc. Montessori may also have open-ended toys, but there is more of a “curriculum” that informs what is chosen for the classroom.
Anon says
Play-based to me is more about whether or not they do academic work. I say my kid went to “play-based preschool/daycare” because she went to a university-run daycare without a formal academic curriculum. I mean they did a letter of the week and stuff like that in the pre-K classroom, but it was much heavier on play than many of my friend’s daycares where the kids had to do worksheets every day, and play time was more limited.
I don’t think Montessori is mutually exclusive with play-based. To me, the big issue with Montessori is not the “work” vs play, it’s that they seem to have unrealistic expectations for normal toddler/preschooler rambunctiousness. That’s ancedotal of course, but I’ve heard it from a bunch of real life friends and seen lots of comments to that effect here too.
Anon says
The shortest and best example I’ve heard used is that a school applying a strict Montessori method will supply wooden counting blocks, and those blocks are to be used correctly by children for counting exercises. If a child is using those blocks to say, build a house, the child would be gently re-redirected to use the blocks for counting. In a play based preschool, the child would be free to use those blocks however they saw fit.
True Montessori classrooms will have a “practical life” section, but dress up costumes are not encouraged. IIRC, Maria Montessori wasn’t super big into fantasy or imagination, and so so strict interpretations don’t encourage a lot of imaginary play. A play based preschool puts out all kinds of stuff, and kids can use the items however they see fit.
Anon says
Oh, and Montessori is typically referred to as “child led,” which means the kids usually get to pick what they want to work on during free times, but again, the activities the kids can pick are structured. In a play based, the children get to pick what they want to play, and how they want to play it.
Anon says
My kids’ Montessori seems pretty similar to a traditional preschool, aside from the Montessori materials. We don’t even celebrate Peace Day. One of my sons’ friends is a bit of a mess behaviorally and he’s doing fine there. A friends sends her kids to a “fancy” Montessori school though and it seems like a different vibe – all wooden toys, the kids bake their own biscuits from scratch every morning, etc.
anon says
Our play based preschool had a morning meeting where they discussed the weather, birthdays, holidays, counting, the letter of the week, a song etc. Then all the kids would have the option to try centers that changed often, usually painting, sensory, something with light or sound, blocks, trains, dolls/kitchen, books, and some sort of teacher-led craft or science project etc. There was no pressure for kids to do any particular thing. After centers, they’d go spend 1-2 hours on a nature-y playground with lots of dirt, rocks and sticks where kids often built things out of branches, stumps and rocks. Then they’d have snack and a story on the rug. Sometimes they’d go to a music class, dance class or art class. Then they’d play in the classroom some more before pickup.
No worksheets. No mandatory academics at all. Very child led and discovery based.
Anonymous says
This is how our play-based university preschool worked. In nice weather they were outside for an hour in the morning and up to two hours in the afternoon depending on when parents picked them up. They also took regular walks on campus and into town for library story time, to see the farm animals, etc.
Anonymous says
+1
Anonymous says
PS – my son’s school would also do kind of a unit study on a subject the kids voted on each semester. So one year it was Koko the Gorilla and then maybe subway trains (? foggy memories).
Anon says
(I think my comment got lost in mod, so apologies if this posts twice.) Maria Montessori said “play is the work of the child,” so it will look like a lot of play. The difference is that Montessori has specific materials and progressions to focus on developmental skills. For example, kids may start by pouring beans in a jar, and when they master that, the instructor with switch out materials and they will move on to pouring water.
Generic play-based is more open ended, and will have toys, probably more things like Duplo and dolls and a pretend kitchen. Montessori may also have toys, but the difference is there is a “curriculum” informing the selection of materials for the classroom
Anon says
is your school “montessori” or really Montessori? Like certified. Because if you are certified you should as a Montessori parent have to come in for regular observations of the classroom. Children in certified schools do a 3 hour straight work time every morning. They wouldn’t look like normal toys.
Montessori based schools are really common and it sounds like yours might be that which would mean its not so rigid in its curriculum.
Montessorian says
Yes, in my opinion AMI recognized schools are the only Montessori schools that should actually be called Montessori, and they are a very different experience than a school with low shelves and wooden toys that claims to be “true” Montessori but doesn’t have AMI recognition.
We were very unhappy with the non-AMI Montessori schools we’ve been involved with – it is all the worst aspects of Montessori without the structure, training and community focus that makes it work. But our strong-willed kids (including the one with a sensory processing and motor planning disorder and the Energizer bunny one) have thrived in AMI environments and love the three hour work cycle. However we are true believers who don’t think fantasy/make-believe play is an appropriate focus in the first plane of development (ages 1-6) and instead focus at home on practical life and grace and courtesy (the Montessori concept; I know all parents want their children to be courteous).
I also don’t know of many AMI recognized Montessori schools that offer full-day care for toddlers and preschoolers – I do know of a few but typically it’s just 8:30-11:30 or 8:30-3:30. I think that is partially because a Montessori school environment is actually not appropriate for a young child all day long – it is amazing to go and do a work cycle, but children need significant time to be rambunctious, outdoors, and unstructured.
Our kids were not ready for 8:30-3:30 until the last year of Primary (known outside Montessori as kindergarten), and even then we typically stop at a park on the way to school to play and spend 3:30-5:30 outdoors every day, in addition to the outdoors time they have after lunch at school. Right now we have a child in Upper El, a child in Lower El, a child in half day Primary and our youngest will start Primary/Children’s House in the fall.
The child in Lower El is probably the worst fit for Montessori generally – she is more of a watcher/dreamer than a doer and needs help to get started on work – and if it was just her I would probably have moved her to a more Waldorf-y, RIE-y or Reggio Emilia-y program but since she likes school and is doing well, I’m not over-complicating things by having her at a different school.
You could say that Montessori is “play-based” since it is child-led and there are no worksheets, required group work or lessons or “circle time” (ugh), but true believers in play-based preschool education would NOT consider Montessori play-based since there is specific work the children are supposed to be doing/a specific way to use the materials.
Anon says
What’s the rationale behind discouraging pretend play from ages 1-6? I get that not every child is into it, and that’s totally fine, but discouraging those who love it from doing it is so sad to me! I have a super imaginative kid, and watching her mind create elaborate make believe scenarios has been one of the best parts of parenting for me – and it seems really great for her too. Allowing a child to engage in pretend play isn’t mutually exclusive with also expecting them to contribute to household responsibilities and be polite to peers and adults.
Montessorian says
There are two pieces here: 1) fantasy and 2) pretend play.
1) Montessori methods prioritize realistic pictures and information in the first plane of development – so books with pictures of real babies rather than cartoon anthropomorphic baby animals; animal figures of actual animals rather than unicorns or neon teddy bears. This is because children in this age group are still learning about what is real and are deeply interested in the details of real life – fantasy is more fun if you know it is fantasy, and young children don’t know enough about the world yet to distinguish. We also believe that the rich inner life of the child is less constrained if we avoid imposing an adult’s idea of fantasy/pretend.
2) wherever possible, Montessori schools try to let children participate in the real thing rather than a play imitation. So there are no play kitchens in Montessori classrooms but there is typically a real kitchen in which the children can actually cook and serve one another. There is no dress up but there are real aprons to wear, napkins to iron with a real iron (yes! At age three!), and opportunities to sew and knit clothing that the child would actually like to have. There are typically real animals to care for (our schools have had fish, turtles, gerbils, rabbits, and chickens) rather than stuffed animals, and real musical instruments (primarily bells) rather than pretend ones. So much of the make believe play that children may engage in in other models, Montessori children actually do.
Children are naturally creative and imaginative, so we should not impose an adult’s idea of how they should play make believe or what appropriate costumes or props would be for them. We prepare the environment with real tools and opportunities to meaningfully contribute to the community and their little brains will do the rest.
Anon says
I’m not sure I really understand this sentence: “Children are naturally creative and imaginative, so we should not impose an adult’s idea of how they should play make believe or what appropriate costumes or props would be for them”
I agree with the first part! And I do agree that some early childhood pretend play can be too adult-led, but I think that’s a problem with the specific adult(s) involved more than with the concept of pretend play. Our play-based daycare had some toys designed specifically for pretend play (no costumes though), but there was also a lot of kids making “soup” out of dirt and leaves or deciding a group of cars was a family and having them talk to each other or whatever. Basically kids repurposing things that adults don’t see as toys into their pretend games, which is entirely self-directed. I think good play-based daycares are pretty hands off and let children lead the play.
I also think that playing pretend isn’t mutually exclusive with having responsibilities around the house and doing things for real. You can bake actual cookies and still enjoy pretending to bake cookies. If I’m understanding correctly, there seems to be the attitude in Montessori that you don’t need to play at baking cookies because you could be doing the real thing, but that doesn’t make sense to me because I think both have lots of value for young kids.
Anonymous says
OP here – it’s a capital “M” Montessori school and all of the teachers are certified Montessori instructors. We did go in for observations when we were touring pre COVID, but again, in addition to wooden blocks, there were also things like crayons in the arts area where they draw, and some of the works in the toddler room are things like magnatiles to help them begin to learn how to manipulate objects. The kids are expected to speak using indoor voices, I just (perhaps wrongly) assumed that everywhere that would be the expectation (except for infants in an infant room). It’s most certainly not a three hour work cycle though, it’s 90-110 minutes, followed by a nature walk or gardening (or music if the weather is really, really bad), and then playing on the playground, then lunch and rest time, then afternoon circle time, another 90-110 minute work cycle, then then more outside time on the playground. The children get lessons on the works and are encouraged to progress to more difficult works. But to me, a non-educator, it looks like playing/fun, (albeit done to help the kids develop and nurture a skill). I just did not know what people meant by “play based”, since it seems like the students at my son’s school are in fact playing. This school and their style of Montessori are all I know, and I just could not picture exactly what would be different at a school that is described as “play based”. There were some good examples above of the differences…. None of the classrooms have dress up clothes. My son also loves following directions and does not like chaos, so the Montessori method suits him really well.
Anonymous says
Lack of pretend play does not reduce chaos.
Early childhood is probably the most creative time of a human’s life. If you stifle creativity and imagination then, how do you expect them to learn it later? Also, pretend play is one way in which children learn to relate to one another and the world around them. I would argue that kids learn more about compassion and concern for other by acting out stories and by working through group dynamics during imaginative play than they learn by being forced to parrot rote expressions of concern as the Montessori poster in the earlier thread describes.
Anon says
Yeah, I commented above but the discouragement of pretend play is baffling to me! I also think kids can learn compassion and social skills through imaginative play, and even if they don’t, there’s space to teach that separately since they’re obviously not doing pretend play 24/7. And there’s a lot of research about the benefits of pretend play in early childhood. My MIL is an early childhood developmental psychologist and she mentions all the time how other than basics like food and shelter, the most important thing for young kids is nurturing their imagination and creativity, and pretend play is a huge part of that.
Anon says
Last week i said to myself that if we’re going to get sick let it be before spring break…well i should be careful what i wish for…my daughter was sick Saturday- Tuesday and now I’ve been sick since Tuesday…we leave a week from Sunday? That’s enough time to get better and pack, rt? Though I’d prefer to be better by this Sunday when DH goes on a business trip and I have to solo parent
Anon says
Solidarity from someone with the same spring break schedule, although we leave on Saturday. At least one person has gotten sick on our last five (? I think? I’ve lost count…) family vacations. It’s been a pretty mild winter for illness except for me getting a brutal flu, so I thought we might be in the clear for this trip, but my daughter threw up in the middle of the night a couple of days ago and has basically not gotten out of bed since.
Anon says
Uch. Hope she gets better before you go. We’ll cancel if we are sick but we are going to Disney so hoping that doesn’t have to happen
Anon says
Thanks! She seems to be on the upswing this afternoon, now we just have to hope we don’t catch it. Hope your trip goes smoothly and you enjoy Disney!
Anonymous says
Plenty of time! Rest as much as you can.