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Mad/sad mom says
My 9yo daughter attends a private school in NYC. There is a boy in her class who has now grabbed her crotch twice at school, and “spanked” her once as well. All unwanted of course, and upsetting to my daughter, who after the second incident said she didn’t feel safe going back to school. She is very perceptive and verbal, highly emotionally intelligent.
This boy has other behavior issues as well, including bullying and body shaming as well as sexualized / taboo touching and talking. I’ve seen his parents’ reaction to others of his bad behaviors, and it’s…concerning. They deny and blame the victim. I guess that’s part of my concern – that if the parents don’t reinforce whatever it is that the school will do in response, then will this stop?
We had a meeting with the school yesterday, and it did not go well. They denied that the touching was “sexual” and that it could have a long-term psychological impact on our daughter if it continues. They told us that there is no standardized discipline policy, but rather it’s all ad hoc, and they can’t tell us anything about repercussions to the boy or what would happen if he touched our daughter again. They also seemed to think this is merely a matter of teaching (and not disciplining) him, that he just doesn’t understand that this is unacceptable. I said I was sad that I couldn’t tell my daughter that this wouldn’t happen again, having happened 3x already, and they lectured me about how you can never say “never” to a child.
I cried after the meeting, out of frustration, and sadness for my daughter.
I guess I’m looking for a gut check and advice on what we should do if the touching recurs. Thanks for any thoughts.
Anon says
Honestly? I would get a lawyer, now. That is a freight train of disaster and the school is almost certainly negating its Title IX duties to protect girls from sexual harassment. That boy will do this again – it’s not a matter of if. I am positive. Get a lawyer now and write down the dates, times, and outcomes of all those conversations.
Also, if it were my daughter…I’d be telling her that if that boy touches her again, she can punch him in the face. Sorry, not sorry.
Anon says
Longer response in m-d for probably hours but lawyer and get your daughter to defend herself physically, stat. This is a dangerous situation.
Anon says
Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry. I would definitely speak to a lawyer. I don’t think punching would be productive because the school will just blame your daughter for that.
OOO says
I had pretty much this exact experience with a boy when I was your daughter’s age. I told my mom, she wrote a letter to the teacher, teacher confronted boy and moved his seat/desk away from mine for the rest of the year, and it didn’t happen again.
Given the school’s response you need to find a new school for her ASAP.
Mary Moo Cow says
Yikes. My gut reaction is get her out of there. If the school had been more receptive, assuring you this would be dealt with and he would not be in her class next year (or even allowed back to school)… but I am deeply troubled by the school’s reaction. Was this teacher or administration? Has your daughter’s teacher noticed and stepped in or reached out to you? I’m also guessing that if it’s happening to her, it’s happening to others, but maybe not.
I would consider escalating this to the Board, the superintendent, whatever the next highest governing authority is. You have leverage here, as a paying parent.
My kids are in a private school and I know this would not be tolerated. Unfortunately the school had such an incident and the administration believed the student and took action the day they were notified. I was anxious for my own daughters after just learning about it, so I cannot imagine how hard it is to go through it as a parent. Hugs to you and your daughter. It breaks my heart to think she doesn’t feel safe at school.
Anon says
I think this needs to go beyond OP just pulling her daughter from school. What poor girl is going to be next? It’s not OK to just close our eyes to that now that we know that it’s happening and that the school isn’t doing anything. Lawyer and document EVERYTHING with dates, times, names of people in the room, actions requested and responses.
Anon says
It’s so wrong that a boy assaults a girl at school and it may be the girl who has to have her education disrupted, be taken away from her social circle and all her friends, and start over at a new school because the boy’s behavior is tolerated! But I do think it’s crucial that this never happen again (and yes, it is possible and also necessary to ensure that this boy never touch her at school again).
Anon says
This pisses me off too.
Anon says
That’s part of the reason why I think it’s crucial for OP to pursue this with legal action. We MUST change the dynamic of girls needing to disrupt their lives to accommodate boys who sexually assault them. The school needs to suspend this boy and make the school safe for girls.
anon says
Your gut is right. Not only is this messed up for your kid, but who knows how many others. And the child exhibiting these behaviors certainly has some SA red flags himself. In your shoes, I’d book a consultation with Consent Parenting. (Rosalia Rivera). Regardless of whether this happens again, the school must be doing more to teach consent and appropriate boundaries.
Anon says
I already commented up thread but it also occurred to me that I would immediately reach out to other parents and let them know about this. There is power in numbers and it may also uncover other sexual assaults, unfortunately.
Anon says
Something in my gut that I can’t articulate tells me to tread lightly with this. OP has gotten a lot of good advice, mostly involving getting a lawyer, and if she does get a lawyer I would consult with them first before going down this path. Not to say she can’t talk about it with trusted friends but I wouldn’t go blasting every parent.
Anon says
I’m just so sorry that you and your daughter are going through this.
Spirograph says
+1, I’m so sorry OP, and also so appalled at the school’s response. It’s 2024, everyone knows not to tolerate this anymore! And assuming the boy is also 9ish, that is plenty old enough to not need to be told more than once not to grab someone else’s crotch. ffs Even if the school manages to eventually resolve the issue with this student, I would have serious concerns about the judgement of the leadership and would strongly consider changing schools.
In the meantime, I agree with others to document and escalate. If this boy is in your daughter’s class, the teacher should keep them physically separate. And in this situation, I’d encourage your daughter to physically defend herself if needed. Especially since the adults present are not protecting her, she needs to feel empowered to protect herself.
Spirograph says
Just for contrast: In public school when my son was in 1st grade, he “spanked” a teachers aide. I got a call from the Principal, who communicated how seriously the school takes these incidents. Due to my son’s age, first offense, his obvious contrition, and the fact that the aide did not feel it was sexual in nature, he only got a warning, but I was told that if anything similar happened again it would result in a suspension. And then obviously we talked with my son when he got home about how it is *never* appropriate to touch any part of someone else’s body unless they say it’s OK, and it’s never to touch private parts of anyone’s body at school. Of course I wish that had never happened to begin with, but I thought the school’s response was both appropriate and fair. And it’s never happened again… even a 6 year old only needs to be told once!
Anon says
Awful! If you have options, pull her. This school doesn’t deserve another dime from you.
If you are feeling particularly fired up, maybe leak it to the press in some capacity (not putting the boy on blast, but the school. You could even require anonymity and let a reporter find others in your shoes to corroborate. I’m sure they exist). People love to find and read about the sinister undercurrent to private education in NY.
Anonymous says
+1, I’d consider leaking this too so other parents know to avoid this school
Anon says
I would raise every hell in the universe and pull my daughter out immediately. No effing way would I allow my daughter to go back to a school where she was sexually assaulted, ESPECIALLY if the school did nothing about it. AND I would get a lawyer involved and do as much damage to this school as possible.
I don’t blame the boy — he’s a child and he’s likely experiencing abuse or being exposed to things he shouldn’t be at this age — but I blame the parents and the school hard. And the boy will absolutely continue abusing other children since he has now learned that there are no consequences.
Anon says
I blame the boy too. There are numerous red flags here for repeated offenses in his future and 9 years old is way, way different than 3.
Anon says
First of all, I’m so sorry – this isn’t your fault and your daughter is brave for informing you. But I do want to push back a little bit on the powerlessness I see in your post – “I told them I was sad I couldn’t tell my daughter this wouldn’t happen again,” “what do I do if the touching recurs.” Sad and waiting for it to happen again aren’t options – angry and making sure it doesn’t happen again are. You can do this and you will have support here and from other parents and the law. This situation isn’t your fault, but it is your responsibility.
SC says
I would pull your daughter out immediately and change schools. Last year, DS was in a private school where another kid’s behavior created an unsafe environment. Not the same things, but incidents like cutting another child’s hair with scissors, throwing chairs in the classroom, starting fights, etc. DS’s anxiety was really bad, and he spent most of his school day hiding or watching out for this other kid instead of learning. We had multiple meetings with the school’s administration, and they could not tell us that they would put additional support in the classroom or escalate the repercussions for this kid’s behavior. In April, there was a week where the other kid attacked him three separate times. Then at a class birthday party, I found out even more details from other parents. We pulled DS out, and DH homeschooled him for the end of the school year.
DS is in a different school this year, and things are much, much better. He’s learning things, he’s making friends with the other kids. But he experienced trauma, and it’s had a lasting effect. He gets nervous about joining new groups of kids because he’s afraid someone will hurt him. He doesn’t trust that teachers and other adults will keep him safe and feels like he has to fend for himself. Often, if DH or I say something like, “I’m proud of you for making that good choice,” DS will respond with, “Yeah, I bet G would have done Different Thing.”
I wish we’d pulled him earlier than we did. We were concerned that we’d be teaching DS that it’s OK to not go to school if you’re anxious. But what we taught him was that other kids might be dangerous, adults may not protect him, and his parents would keep sending him into a situation where he wasn’t safe. He’ll probably never completely unlearn those lessons.
Anonymous says
I would hire a lawyer to write a letter to the board of directors. I would also consider filing a civil suit against the parents or filing a police report.
Anon says
A lawsuit against the parents of the boy? I don’t see how they have any liability here. The school is the one that is failing to take action and protect the girl.
Anon says
Yeah that stuck out as odd to me as well.
Vicky Austin says
I am utterly floored that you said you wished you could tell your daughter this wouldn’t happen again, and they LECTURED you about your word choice. That is bananacrackers. I don’t have specific practical advice, but I am so sorry this is happening and I think you would be more than justified in scorching this particular earth, my goodness.
Vicky Austin says
Also, I am side-eying their “ad hoc” discipline attitude very hard. No specific policy for something as serious as sexually assaulting another student smells extremely fishy.
Anon says
I agree. I read your post and was like WTF?!? I’d be raising h*ll.
anon says
I was your daughter in almost this same situation. My parents told me I could punch the boy if he did it again. I warned him, he did it, I punched him in the face. The school called my dad, who basically said, you wouldn’t solve it, so she did.
This was 1989 and I’m positive you couldn’t get away that today. So I’m not recommending this. But I am recommending abandoning this attitude of passivity. Write a formal letter to the school administration and the board of trustees. Tell them this must stop or you’ll pursue legal action. You have power here – use it!
Anon says
If you want to get something to the school in writing now while you consider legal action, this is what I would send the superintendent or relevant administrator:
“Dear ___,
I was shocked that when I reported three incidents of ___ touching my daughter’s crotch or bottom inappropriately, I was informed by ____ that the school has no disciplinary policy, will not be taking any action, and that my daughter’s safety at school will not be protected. I am writing to let you know that this is completely unacceptable and that I will be pursuing all legal avenues to ensure my daughter’s safety. I have attached a document showing the dates of each incident and showing the names of each person who attended yesterday’s meeting.
Tolerating sexual harassment in school is wholly unacceptable and it goes without saying that I’m gravely disappointed in the school’s reaction to my daughter speaking up. I will be in touch via my lawyer shortly.”
Anon says
Agree. Get something in writing
Anon says
OP I’m sorry you’re in this situation, and you should definitely consult a lawyer if you want to, but I want to caution you that there’s likely little legal recourse. I do some education law and work with private elementary and secondary schools on their handbooks and disciplinary issues (not in NY). Generally, claims against private schools are limited to breach of contract actions based on the enrollment agreement and possibly the handbook, depending on how it’s drafted. There may be some state laws that give you a basis for relief, but usually not. There’s a lot more recourse in public school – Title IX applies.
Anon says
Doesn’t Title IX also apply to private schools that get any federal funding or certain tax breaks? That may well apply to OP’s school…
Good point about the handbook, though. OP, download a copy of the handbook ASAP if you haven’t already!
anon says
It’s very unlikely that a private elementary/secondary school receives the kind funding that implicates Title IX. Private colleges, yes.
Anon says
Are children this much less protected from assault than adults? I feel like there would be SOME legal recourse if this happened to me (repeatedly!) at my place of employment!
Anon says
Yeah, not a lawyer but when I read this draft I would hesitate mentioning the lawyer part until she’s talked to one and they agree there is a course of action here. Because if not, it will undermine the credibility of the rest of the message.
anon says
I’m so sorry your daughter experienced this and even more sorry that the school administration is so utterly worthless. I’d expect much better from a private school. Even the public schools I know, which are more restricted in their discipline options, do better than this. I’d escalate immediately. If it was a lower level administrator who messed up, I’d give the head of school a chance to fix this situation within the next few days. If it was the head of school that messed up, I’d want to talk with the board president ASAP.
I’d also be thinking about engaging a school consultant for advice on possibly changing schools if things don’t rapidly improve. I’m concerned that this is a school with leadership that makes really bad decisions. Unless you see a good course correction upon escalation, I’d be concerned about what other really bad decisions they’re making. A lawyer may be able to get the school to better handle the problem with this one child and possibly improve their policies regarding sexual harassment and assault, but a lawyer can’t transform utterly incompetent leadership into competent leadership.
It’s so hard when a school badly fails a child, especially your own child. I’m really sorry you and your daughter are having to go through this.
Anonymous says
This is shocking and outrageous. I literally cannot believe it. I would take your daughter out of this school asap and make very clear why you’re doing so.
RiskedCredit says
Report the child and school to CPS. This screams SA and the school are mandatory reporters who brushed this away.
I would hire a lawyer to fight over school fees and pull your daughter immediately.
Anon says
This is so cute but impractical for my kid’s life. We don’t go to church so we don’t have anywhere to wear super frilly dresses.
Spirograph says
I get Boden & Boden Kids catalogs in the mail, and my daughter loves to peruse them. This dress is the #1 thing she asked for, but same… we do go to church (too late now, but this would have been a good Easter dress), but after church, the kids run out to play on the playground. I can’t justify $100 on something that’s going to get shredded on the mulch after 2 wears!
Mary Moo Cow says
I’ve found Boden clothes to hold up really well. We have a Mini Boden tulle midi skirt that my 6 year old has played in (and gotten paint on, alas) and it’ still in great shape! Cheaper tulle skirts have ripped but not this one. I’ve also been able to hand them down and resell them, which, especially when I buy on sale, takes some of the sting out of the price.
Anon says
I volunteered in my kindergartner’s class today and a girl came up to me and said (not very kindly) “Your kid cries all the time and the whole class calls her a crybaby behind her back.” Oof. We know our daughter has big feelings and emotional regulation is something teachers have mentioned as an area of improvement, but generally parent-teacher reports are positive and it seems like she’s doing well in school and has friends. I have witnessed disproportionate reactions to minor disagreements, like stomping and pouting her feet because she disagreed with a friend about…the color of his shirt (!?), but at least at this age things seems to blow over quickly and kids are best buddies again 15 minutes later. She doesn’t get physical. Is this something we should be more proactively addressing to stave off social issues down the road, or not worry about it until we see it impacting her close friendships? And what sort of thing would you do for this? We have done some OT for other issues and weren’t super impressed, and I’m not sure play therapy would help because when she’s calm and regulated, she can handle conflicts well. The issue is when she gets mad or frustrated she’s likely to lose it and get to a place where she can’t regulate her emotions very well. Fwiw, she is young for her grade but not dramatically so (turns 6 in April in a district with an August cutoff and a lot of red-shirted summer birthdays).
Anon says
I think this will blow over. Your daughter may face some peer pressure to regulate her emotions better and that can be a good thing, although expressing it to you in a rude way certainly wasn’t kind of the other girl!
AwayEmily says
I kind of agree. Partially it’s that kindergarteners, unlike adults, have no filter when it comes to expressing social judgments. When adults criticize someone for something, it has to have risen to a pretty serious level. But my kindergartener often tells me negative things about his classmates (e.g. “Maeve isn’t good at controlling her body and sometimes she hugs me when I don’t want her to and then the teacher and I tell her NO”) and then the next day he’s describing how Maeve is his best friend. I think there’s such a wide variation in emotional and physical regulation at this age, and the kids definitely NOTICE it but that doesn’t mean they always judge/exclude based on it.
Anonymous says
+1 – I would not take the word of one kindergarten student as gospel or a sign that you need to do anything and certainly not without asking the teachers about this specifically. They are not always reliable narrators.
Anon says
OP here. I don’t think this girl is a reliable narrator – she clearly said it to get a rise out of me and I’ve observed her saying a lot of mean, I would say bordering on bullying, things to and about a lot of different kids. She seems so much more like a tween than most of the kids in a lot of ways, including picking on other kids for things most 6 year olds don’t care about. But the fact that she’s picking up on this as something to be mean about makes me think it will eventually be an issue for other kids will too… that’s more what my concern is, rather than this one specific girl (who my daughter and her friends mostly avoid).
octagon says
Honestly? I would raise it with the teacher. The fact that a kindergartner is saying that to you, the parent (!), tells me that there are some strong dynamics at play and at a minimum warrant close attention from adults who are around them all day. Maybe it’s nothing, but it’s worth saying to the teacher “hey, this child made a strange remark about how other kids are talking about my kid behind her back and making fun of her. How do you ensure that all kids feel welcome and supported?”
Also? That kid is a jerk.
anon says
Oof indeed! With kids who are slightly older, social life within school gets tough for kids who have trouble regulating their emotions.
I think it’d be great to get your daughter help, either directly through a therapist or through parent coaching that teaches you how to help her. Your pediatrician might have recommendations. If you’re in the Bay Area, Parents’ Place has phenomenal parent coaches who are a great first stop for learning how to help kids with all sorts of problem behaviors. They can refer to appropriate specialties if behavior requires more than parent coaching.
Anon says
So the ped is pretty dismissive and just says big feelings are normal at this age. I know she’s not the only kid who cries in school, but I suspect she does it more than most. I could push for some kind of neuropysch eval, but I’m not sure it would go anywhere because life at home is fairly smooth and her teachers really like her. I feel like there has to be more of a “problem” to get any kind of diagnosis.
anon at 1:04pm says
Parent coaching is great for behavior issues that are in the wide range of normal, so don’t meet criteria for any kind of diagnosis, but are still causing a problem for the child and family. I know so many people have benefitted from a few sessions of parent coaching for specific issues that are well within the normal range.
Anon says
I don’t think this is something that would lead to a diagnosis, but that doesn’t mean you can’t get coaching on how to help her
Anonymous says
As someone who had similar emotional regulation issues as a kid (weeping in third grade over basically writer’s block for example) I’ll just say that I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and that years of emotional disregulation, procrastination, hyper focus, and time blindness were ignored because I had good grades. (I had good grades because I liked school.)
I’d watch and wait. But please know that puberty makes ADHD worse for women.
Redux says
Anyone do therapy for young kids with anxiety? My daughter is 10 and is manifesting physical symptoms of anxiety. She’s always been a nervous, perfectionist, type-a kid, but we seem to have crossed the line from mere personality to something more. I want to help her develop tools to address. Advice? FWIW, we saw her doctor this morning for an issue that I thought was viral but she admitted to the dr. was a symptom of a physical nervous behavior. Dr. was really sweet with her and suggested a book, When My Worries Get Too Big, which I have ordered. I will also reach out to the Dr. for other advice but curious for stories from parents who have been there.
Anon says
I’m not sure what kind of physical symptoms you mean, but just because the symptoms stem from anxiety doesn’t mean the anxiety isn’t itself a symptom of an underlying physical issue; I wish my childhood doctor had been quicker to order some additional tests.
OP says
Can you say more about that? What symptoms and underlying physical issue?
Anon says
I ended up diagnosed with dysautonomia and orthostatic intolerance that was causing sympathetic excess. It was being caused by a vitamin deficiency that was being caused by a GI condition, and everything was exacerbated by impaired sleep. (To be fair to my doctors, some first round screening tests had missed these things because I wasn’t underweight and they didn’t know back then that some of the labs weren’t sensitive enough in some cases.)
I totally was perfectionist and type A, so support with that side of things still mattered! But part of that psychology for me was that it was becoming harder to achieve in the way that used to be easy and I didn’t know how to recognize and convey that, especially when it’s expected for school to get harder as you get older!
Anon says
(And I hope your daughter is in perfect health and remains so! I just experienced that the framing that it’s either anxiety or something physical distracted from the ways that mental and physical health can be intertwined, and that in my case it was more helpful to work on both together.)
OP says
Thank you for sharing your experience. I have been trying to walk the line between not pathologizing her personality but also giving her tools and resources to manage her reactions. You are so right that it is not a binary between psychological and physical– thank you for that helpful perspective.
Anonymous says
Yes, my 9 year old does talk therapy and has for a little over a year. While he has improved in that time, it’s impossible to know if any of it is from therapy, or if it’s just natural growth, or all the huge amount of parenting work we have been doing. If you use Instagram, the account Gozenlove has been helpful for us in terms of self talk scripts we can work on with our kid. For him, anxiety manifests as either aggression or shutting down/being “tired,” and therapy has been more helpful on the aggression side (eg we are seeing fewer violent meltdowns when he can’t decide which shoes to wear). The book you suggested is a great idea. Even just drawing a connection between some feelings and anxiety can be helpful to some kids- for ours, helping understand that feeling of “I just can’t do this/I’m too tired to do this” before a social engagement means he’s anxious has been helpful. Therapy can help with identifying those connections too.
OP says
Super helpful thank you. I really appreciate the note that even drawing the connection between behaviors and anxiety is helpful. It seemed like a revelation to my daughter when the Dr. drew that out this morning. If you have other resources– books, etc.– for the parenting piece, please share. Appreciate it!
Anonymous says
I do find social media stuff to be helpful- Dr Becky and Eli Harwood (the attachment nerd)- some of that is less specifically anxiety focused though . And frankly drawing on my own learnings from anxiety therapy – recognizing and naming the feeling is a big thing and a good step towards being able to disconnect the feeling from the reality. We also have learned from a variety of sources (pediatrician, therapist, internet) about how to scaffold vs over accommodate, and we can also talk directly to our child at this age, finally, about how accommodating anxiety won’t help him the most in the long run. We haven’t medicated at this point because he’s made tons of progress but I don’t rule it out for the future (definitely runs in the family on both sides).
OP says
Sounds like you have put in a ton of work. You are a good mom. Thank you for sharing some of your resources! This is all super helpful as it’s new to me (though through this I am recognizing a lot of behaviors in myself that were always glossed over as I was always very high-achieving). Appreciate the recommendations!!
anon says
Great that you’re helping your child with this! As an additional resource to supplement therapy, the Flusterclux podcast is really helpful for parents supporting children who have anxiety.
OP says
Subscribing! Thank you.
Not saying says
We do talk therapy with our kid close to that age. Thought kid was just generally anxious. Talk therapy uncovered that kid was being appallingly bullied at school (which was a fixable situation). So glad we started therapy as it might have taken much longer for this info to come out otherwise.