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Leatty says
What’s a good book to talk about death and terminal illness with early elementary kids and toddlers? My MIL has a terminal illness and has now progressed to hospice. She isn’t able to talk much and is bedbound, and it’s only going to get worse from here.
anon says
I’m so sorry. I didn’t find a good book, but my pediatrician was a helpful resource. I was very matter of fact in brief, understandable terms, and open when questions came up—which they did, a lot.
Anon says
I’m sorry you are going through this. Someone at my church recommended: What Do We Tell the Children? Talking to Kids about Death and Dying by Joseph M. Primo. Not sure it how religious it is vs you, but may be a good starting place.
anonM says
Leatty, so sorry you and your family are dealing with this. I don’t know a book, but I’d call your local library’s children’s desk. The kids’ librarians are usually amazing at this sort of thing. Also, I know this isn’t what you asked, but I would recommend looking up terminal lucidity. If you haven’t had to deal with hospice before, it can be very surprising and confusing, and I bring this up because I imagine it would be very hard to explain to little kids. And, if she can still talk, record her voice. Wishing your family the smoothest, most peaceful, and most pain-managed transition possible. Hugs. I’m so sorry again, this is so hard.
Anonymous says
I’m curious to hear the perspectives of those with 3+ kids, or even just 2 kids but a bit older than mine. Is there anything that shifted as they got older that you wish you understood as a parent of younger kids? As my kids get older there are certain changes that I didn’t anticipate (maybe obvious for others) and in general although it’s easier there’s often less time. And my 2 are under 3 so they’re still young! I don’t feel like people talk about this as much but my baby is often the easier one. So I’m concerned about having a third without being able to anticipate the changes of kids in general as they age. Not sure if that makes sense but for example – as my older one ages, he’s up later and bedtime is more involved and takes longer. I used to have a long chunk of time to work every evening and now it’s harder to find that or my husband and I have to take turns etc. maybe some of this is just because there’s more chores etc with 2 now in the evening but still, it’s a lot different than just putting down a baby in the crib and leaving without pushback. I’d love to hear if anyone has insight into this.
Anon says
Following – same exact situation and have the same thoughts/questions about adding a third.
AIMS says
Our weekends are basically gone now that our kids are 5 and 7. Between their activities and birthday parties, it feels impossible to do anything and we aren’t even doing that many things relative to their peers. Birthdays and friend stuff is also much harder to miss once they are 3-4+ because they know that they’re missing something; it’s even worse when they are in grade school and know every birthday that is happening. Activities are also harder since they are working on building actual skills rather than just clapping to music or whatever. And with 3 (I have 2), I would imagine you’re often outnumbered. Not to say that should preclude you having 3, but we have had weekends where both kids have different parties/activities at the same time and it requires both adults to participate (at least until they get to be drop off age). The other issue that crops up is not all parties invite siblings so you end up having one person take kidA while other parent has to mind kidB. This probably is a temporary issue and while you have a baby, it’s easy to bring a baby even if siblings aren’t invited since they don’t go to headcount but it is something to consider. When they were younger, it was much easier to divide the day so that one parent could do something by themselves for a few hours and then switch off.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Drop off bday parties started for my older kid this past spring (mostly kids turning 7) and they are amazing!!
TheElms says
I have a post that has a lot of similar points to this but it is in mod.
Anon says
I feel strongly that non-drop off parties should always allow siblings, but unfortunately that’s not always the case.
My husband works roughly every other weekend (he’s a firefighter) so non-drop off non-sibling parties are almost impossible for us. I occasionally have to work weekends too (and before we met I worked a job that was also every other weekend) Our parents help a bunch, but I’d rather save my asks for non-negotiable things and not parties.
I have so many friends in healthcare, government, and other professions with weekend work (let alone firefighter friends) and it’s a PITA! And those with 2 parents with M-F 9-5s never understand the struggle.
AIMS says
But even when they allow siblings, there is no guarantee the kids want to go, which is another thing I didn’t anticipate! My kids are at an age where parties without their own friends aren’t fun and not all activities are equally appealing. It’s all a lot to navigate.
EDAnon says
I just want to counter point that mine are almost 5 and almost 7 and we have tons of weekend time. So far, our kids are into activities we can do as a family (swimming, kayaking, cycling, and playgrounds are still in the mix. In winter, we all ski). We do have times with lots of birthday parties but it ebbs and flows and I have seen more families doing smaller parties so we don’t get invited to all of them. We do go to church so that takes up weekend time.
Spirograph says
Parties get a lot smaller as kids get older, IME. Full-class parties were the norm for prek (pre-pandemic), but all the ones my kids have been invited to recently have been <10 kids. Our weekend-killers are the sports / dance commitments.
Anonymous says
I only have one so maybe this is naive, but I don’t feel like having two kids necessarily doubles the kids’ social calendars. Birthday parties may double, but if you have two kids you can schedule separate play dates for them at the same time or alternate weekends, right? I also know a lot of people who find family friends with similar age sibling sets so each kid has a buddy when they get together.
+1 that activities are the thing that seems like the real weekend-killer. I feel like the real reason our weekends feel relaxed is less that we have only one kid and more that we’ve opted out of non-family weekend activities at this age. Fully aware this will change as my kid gets older, but I think in early elementary it’s very doable.
NLD in NYC says
BOBW (Best of Both Worlds) just did a podcast on this topic. I know, some here are fans, some are not (I have a love/hate relationship), but I thought it was helpful for those considering adding a third.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
I also have a love/hate relationship. The blurb for this episode made me cringe hard, so I’ll skip this one. Plus, no plans for a #3 so I guess it’s not for me!
NLD in NYC says
Lol, I get it!
Boston Legal Eagle says
Last I checked, SHU and LVK both worked part time/for themselves, and had full time nannies. At least SHU acknowledges her circumstances but I’m not going to take advice from LVK on having an army of children when I want to continue working full time and don’t particularly want tons and tons of paid help!
Anon says
That’s the thing that has always struck me as off-putting about them. I’m all for outsourcing chores to the extent I can, but I don’t want to outsource parenting at all. Especially as kids grow up and get more independent and interesting.
But I have one kid and a lean out job, so clearly I’m someone who likes life on “easy mode” and am not their target audience.
Boston Legal Eagle says
I have two kids, ages 4.5 and 7. Things definitely change as they get older, and there’s a lot that I can’t really anticipate or plan for, especially with my first (for whom everything is new to us). A big challenge with older kids is the logistics, especially if they have a lot of sports or other activities. If you have 3 school age kids actively involved in activities, I think you need some sort of support, whether it’s an afterschool nanny, reliable carpools, grandparents, etc. I’m having a hard time imagining even just us handling our two kids’ activities when the time comes!
And yes, they’ll stay up later, but they become more self sufficient, so they can do their own showers, brush teeth, reading, etc. A little easier to work while a 7 year old is underfoot than a 3 year old, although of course they still need some attention.
I will say that I have really enjoyed the early elementary years so far, and my 4 year old is fine now too, and hope this golden era lasts until they are teens! Teenagers are another ball game (many logistics there too, and activities often go until late in the night), but I’m not there yet. I’m sure there will be friend drama to come in middle school too.
Anonymous says
IME it is impossible to handle even one child’s afterschool logistics without either a flex schedule or a nanny if they do anything but a standard after-school program that provides transportation. And don’t even get me started on summer day camps.
Boston Legal Eagle says
True! A lot of sports practices start at 4. Luckily, so far, we’ve had flexible enough jobs to do this.
Anon says
This may be regional. I have a flexible work schedule and have looked for activities in the 4-5:30 window because that would be ideal for us. Everything here seems to start at 6 or 7. The former is doable, but makes family dinner rushed and isn’t something I want to do more than once a week, and the latter is too late for a lot of early elementary kids.
TheElms says
Mine are only a bit older ( 18 months and 4) and it is already clear how the older kid’s schedule is starting to dominate. The 4 year old is in formal school (PK but as part of a PK-6 school) starting the fall and there are attendance expectations, so that has a limiting effect on vacations or pulling her out of school when family visits to some extent. (I do think we will still do those things but we will need to spend the time to make sure the school ok with it and we don’t inadvertently cause 4 year old to miss some special school event which would make her really sad). Also 4 year old has clear preferences that we now take into account when we plan our weekends, etc. She has friends and requests playdates with them or they request playdates with her. She has views on what activities she wants to do and when and we try to accommodate her preferences in an age appropriate way, so its no longer me making plans with my friends and bringing the kids along. Also the 18 month old is often not invited to the the things the 4 year old is invited to (or its not age appropriate for an18 month old) so we are doing a lot of dividing and conquering which means less downtime for us as parents or running chores that we might have done solo with a kid in tow. Sometimes we mitigate this last piece by getting a babysitter for a few hours on the weekend.
Lily says
Can you just not accommodate her preferences constantly? Let her pick a playdate or two and her activities, but also bring her along to activities you want to do.
I know it’s easier said than done… I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old and I’m in the same boat. But we have to teach our kids they are not the center of the world (even though they really are the center of my world but life will go easier for them if they don’t have that expectation…)
Anonymous says
Judgy much?!
EDAnon says
I echo the impact of the school schedule was huge. We don’t pull out of school (much), so limiting ourselves to breaks is a big switch. I miss day care where I could pull them out whenever.
anon says
It is tricky. I have one kid in middle school and another in mid-elementary. In theory, I should have more time. And I do … in very, very small pockets. So overall, I feel more rested and able to stay on top of things, but I still have to carve out time for anything more involved, plans with friends, dates with DH, etc. I feel like we’re pretty moderate with kids’ activities, compared to most families we know, and it’s still a lot. One thing that I didn’t anticipate was a teenager’s bedtime schedule, which is now as late or later than mine! While he can fend for himself in many ways, late evenings also seem to be when he wants to open up and talk, so I try to be available even if I’d rather be hanging with DH, watching TV, or reading right before bed.
All this to say, is this stuff is CONSTANTLY changing, and much of it you can’t predict. Kids’ needs change, and so do yours. Over time, I’ve gotten better at making adjustments along the way and not freaking out when a good routine goes to sh!t. Because it probably will, at some point.
Kids are easier and harder at the same time. My oldest needs more emotionally right now, but less physically. My younger one is kind of a handful on the social front. She wants to socialize with friends basically always. But her needs are less complex than her brother’s. All this ebbs and flows. Each kid takes turns being the “hard one.”
I will say, I honestly don’t know how dual-working parents juggle having more than 2 kids. Some weeks, it’s a struggle to get our 2 where they need to be. (One of the kids has more medical appointments than the average kid, which definitely affects how time-crunched we feel.) But people make it work, so what do I know?
Anonymous says
It’s not just that you’re outnumbered with three–you encounter an entirely different level of chaos, based on the natural law of threes! Read this: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/science/3-body-problem-nuclear-china.html
We’re two and done. I love babies, would theoretically love more kids, but I also love having a sense of balance that I think we would lose with three.
Spirograph says
I have 3 elementary age kids and while I don’t have the time to read the law of threes article right now, I’m going to go back to that. I never thought of my kids like the physics 3 body problem before but it’s true! There are shifting alliances, they interact in dynamic and sometimes unpredictable ways. When one is away, the other two are totally different. When two are away, I marvel at how easy it is to have an only child who is used to being part of a pack and just delighted in soaking up the undivided attention.
Anyway, I like the chaos, and I’m one of three so I had an idea what I was getting into. But you’re right OP — things change when the kids get older. Your free-time-after-the-kids-go-to-bed shrinks dramatically. I used to put the little kids to be and still make it to the pool to swim laps, but when bedtime is closer to 9pm, that doesn’t work. There’s more laundry. There are more dishes. Keeping up with the clutter becomes a bigger uphill battle. If your kids are in sports or other activities, the logistics of which parent is getting whom where become a never-ending puzzle. As someone else said, you become an uber driver. And with kids outnumbering drivers, sometimes there’s just no way to make it work (cultivate carpool relationships to save your sanity).
I also agree with the anon above that older kids take more mental energy — both because they’re awake and wanting to interact with you longer, and because their problems are more complex and force you to really confront how you think about people and the world and why. It’s great, but it’s harder mentally (for me, at least) at the end of a long day at work than attending to the physical needs of a baby or enforcing boundaries with a toddler/preK kid.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Man, toddlers are exhausting though!! I may be eating my words when I have teens asking me too many questions or dealing with serious issues, but I don’t think I would ever go back to the toddler years (pre-mobile baby? maybe).
Anon says
Two things:
Logistics. You basically become an uber driver. Even if your kid is only into one activity, that activity will start happening 3x a week in around 2nd grade (looking at you ballet class + Nutcracker or little league practices + games!)
They go to bed later. You lose your evening time.
Anonymous says
Exactly this. Plus between first grade and fifth grade you will spend a LOT of time providing guidance on extremely complex school projects for which the teacher provides zero support.
Anonymous says
Depends on the age and temperament of the kids. I have 3, ages 5,7,10. All girls. Some nuggets in no particular order:
– don’t buy a single stroller. You’ll always want a double.
– buy the minivan.
– 3 is an odd number, someone will always feel left out. The alliances shift over the years. (I am also one of three so know this well).
– find something to bond with each kid over.
– make time for 1:1 with each kid. DH and I have to calendar it.
– get them to help out around the house as early as possible. They are all capable.
-if your kids do sports, make them fun for the “tag along” siblings. Mine all play so everyone is on the sidelines at some point. We have good chairs, always have snacks and crafts, try to bring 2 cars so we have a fast escape as needed.
– you will struggle to have two full time working out of the home parents. For us, we decided it wasn’t worth it. DH took a super flexible job (full time WFH, really only works 30 hours/week for full time exec pay but won’t advance much in his career). I went part time. We are both very involved with all our kids.
– you will likely have at least one kid with some kind of issue, Medical or otherwise. It’s just statistics. Sample size of all my friends- kids get stuff. Behavior problems, diabetes, adhd, autism, celiac, learning disability, severe allergies- more kids = more likely to have a curveball in the mix.
– make friends with the parents of your kids’ friends. Even if it’s just friendly. You will want them for carpool.
– carpool! (See: minivan) it’s the only way to get all the kids to all their activities.
Anon says
I have a 10, 12 and 14 y/o (two boys, youngest is a girl), and I agree with all of this. Three kids times X number of activities, the logistics are a nightmare. Also, as the kids get older, they can no longer do the same things (there was a sweet spot when they could all go to the same camp, same school etc), or even if they do the same activity, they will meet at different times.
100% carpools. So worth it. Go to birthday parties when they are young for the sole reason that you meet parents that you can carpool with.
Bonus if you can find similarly aligned siblings, even if it’s 2 of 3.
Vacations are tougher with 5 people – you have to get the bigger car, a suite or two hotel rooms etc. 4 is easier.
We are decently involved (DH is the Scoutmaster, for example), but we also have a full time nanny/Uber driver.
Anonymous says
Adding: vacations. Ugh. We don’t get hotels anymore bc one of my kids has severe sleep issues. We can do 2 hotel rooms (with everyone in one will Kid does to bed, then other kid sneaks in) or an air BNB.
Flights all cost a million dollars. Rental cars are more bc you need space for everyone. It’s fine though, we love it.
Anon says
Not that this is the sole reason we chose private school but having all kids at the same school with the same location and same schedule is really helpful.
Our kids are at a k-12 school, all the schools have the same start time and days off (end time only varies because of activities). IME, there are longer school breaks but less random days off.
Anonymous says
Little people, little problems. Someone once told me that when I had tiny ones and I was like haha whatever, at least you sleep through the night! But even in elementary it’s already getting tougher emotionally. Bullying, mental health, homework, etc. It just gets hard in a different way.
I wanted (want?) 3 but we just got some bad news IVF-wise so I think we are done at 2, and it might be the right decision regardless.
AIMS says
Bunk bed question. We switched our kids to a bunk bed in the summer of 2021, when it seemed like every single piece of furniture was back ordered. We ended up getting a basic ikea bunk bed because that was in stock. The problem is my oldest, who sleeps on top, complains about the bunk bed constantly. It’s uncomfortable, she hates it, etc. This is from a kid who was initially super excited for this bed!
My question is – for those with bunk beds or prior experience – is this an IKEA bunk bed problem that can be solved with a better quality bunk or is this just an issue with these beds generally? We are redecorating the kids’ room and I’d love to keep the bunk bed for space saving reasons but don’t want my kids to be miserable either. Would love to know if investing in something nicer would help. A full size bed, bunk or otherwise, is not in the cards though.
anon says
What does she find uncomfortable about it?
AIMS says
“Everything” – the mattress, she claims she bumps into the rail, she doesn’t like climbing in and out. We got a topper but it wasn’t very thick. Maybe need to get something better.
Vicky Austin says
Hmm. Suggestion from my own days sleeping in a top bunk as a kid: does she have a stuffed animal collection? Could she line them up along the rail to keep from bumping into it? Maybe she just needs to “nest” a bit and the redecoration can help with that.
Anon318 says
What are the supports for the mattress? We got solid bunkie boards for my son’s top bunk from A-zon and he said it made the bed much more comfortable. As a bonus, the bunkie boards made the already solid bunk bed seem more sturdy.
Vicky Austin says
Is it a mattress problem? Could you get her a topper/egg crate thing and see if that solves it?
NYCer says
+1. Top bunk mattresses are often quite thin (uncomfortable). I would look into a new mattress, or at least try adding a topper.
Anonymous says
I would respect it and get her a normal twin bed.
Anonymous says
Is the second kid old enough to swap places? What kind of mattress do you have, and what do you have under the mattress? Is it a linked spring thing like college beds have, slats, or a “bunkie board”?
Another factor that makes bunk beds unpleasant is the fact that when one kid moves it jostles the whole bed. This can be mitigated by using the type of bunk that is two separate pieces, where the top bed is essentially a loft and the bottom is a twin that slides underneath in a corner configuration.
Anonymous says
I would try putting the mattress on the floor for a few nights and see if she finds that significantly better or not. You could certainly upgrade the mattress if that is the issue.
DLC says
Our bunkbed came with an awful mattress and our kid complained a lot- it was thin and lumpy. We eventually replaced it with a regular twin mattress and it is much better now.
We also have bunk beds with stairs so it isn’t as awkward to get in and out.
Vicky Austin says
Our nanny keeps a log for me of how much milk she gives DS during the day, but for my own sanity I haven’t spent a lot of time looking at it so I don’t find myself obsessing over ounces. Right now the freezer stash is running pretty low and DS is eating a ton (like she just logged a 5 oz bottle this morning, less than 3 hours after I fed him last!). I guess my question is…reassure me this is normal? Should I assume supply and demand will continue to fluctuate and ride it out? Keep closer tabs on his intake? Discuss with her and ask her to try other methods of soothing him? I might be a little spooked by the experience of the poster the other day whose daycare blew through 16 oz of milk in a morning…
NYCer says
How old is your baby? I think (?) you went back to work recently, so I am guessing somewhere in the 3-6 month range. A 5oz bottle seems pretty normal to me for that age, but it has admittedly been a while since I had an infant.
Vicky Austin says
Thanks all. I was texting her and she told me she was giving him one every 2 hours still. DS is 3 months and doesn’t nurse nearly that often when he’s with me, so we are going to space out to 3-4 hours between bottles and see how that changes things. Just needed to use my words, as usual.
I am definitely not trying to have a big freezer stash, but I did notice that I had plenty of extra and then one day I didn’t! So I was a bit supply anxious. DS sleeps a longer stretch from bed at 8:30ish to about 1-2 am, so I was thinking about adding in a pumping session before going to bed myself, and I might do that and get a tin or two of formula as backup. Thanks for the reassurance!!
NYCer says
Ah ok, every 2 hours definitely does seem really frequent. Glad you were able to talk to her about spacing them out.
Anonymous says
A 5oz bottle 3 hours after the last feeding seems normal to me. I agree with AIMS’s suggestion to focus on total consumption.
I am skeptical of the idea of restricting or pacing feeding. My skinny baby was a ravenous velociraptor who screamed unless she got as much milk as she wanted, as fast as she wanted it.
anon says
Paced feeding isn’t restricting, it’s just not overfeeding. No 3-4 month old needs 16 oz in a morning. That’s not healthy. Some babies will suck and suck, even if not hungry and overfull already. Caregivers should use common sense and find other ways to sooth a baby.
AIMS says
I would look at the daily totals. How old is your son? I never worried about having a big stash if i pumped roughly what was eaten the next day. I did notice that for my friends who pumped exclusively and had bigger freezer reserves, milk was used more as a soothing mechanism and “not sure what to do, let’s try food” solution. Lots of half wasted bottles that way. But once that habit was established, they worried more about having a large stash.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Same – I pumped enough for the next day and didn’t keep adding to a freezer stash outside of trips when I would be gone longer.
anon says
You might look up paced bottle feeding. It’s totally possible to blow through milk by overfeeding a breastfed baby.
My babies never really increased their BM consumption as they grew. We added solids starting around 5 months and those slowly increased, leaving bm consumption pretty stable. Both ate about four 4-5 oz bottles per long-ish work day.
GCA says
How old is baby? My philosophy on this was like, well, some days I’m very active and have a huge appetite, and some days I’m not, so it shouldn’t surprise me that baby’s intake fluctuates a bit too – there’s going to be a bit of a range. I also found that my kids were suuuper hungry around 5-6 months because they were doing so much (pushing up, learning to crawl, learning to grasp stuff, trying to look at everything around them) and had not yet started solids. A 5-6oz bottle every 4ish hours was not out of the ordinary for DD.
If you have supply anxiety, might I suggest a small tin of backup formula? And then you can ask nanny to mix an additional ounce or two to see if baby is still hungry.
Anon says
Both my kids ate 4 bottles at daycare from 4-7 months, then dropped to 3 bottles until 12 months. Each bottle had 4oz pumped breastmilk. I would nurse them in morning (6/7am) and before bed (6/7pm).
Emma says
I think kids really vary on this… my almost 10 month old is growing through a growth spurt and will take an 8oz bottle and want more (and yes, she is eating solids).
anon says
By 10 mo my kid would have eaten solids, not BM, during a growth spurt. She was eating full meals, including things like chicken curry, lasagna, and beef stew.
Is the 8 oz bottle formula or BM? I’ve never heard of kids getting 8 oz of BM in a single bottle.
Anonymous says
At that age, kids vary wildly in how much solids they eat. My 10month old definitely increased milk not solids for her growth spurt last week. And she also eats less solids and more milk again when she’s teething.She’s just starting to get into meals, though we always offer what we are eating and have her with us. She tastes everything, but isn’t interested in more typically.
Anonymous says
I think it also depends on how much they get when they nurse, which can be hard to estimate. I was shocked how much I pumped in the morning when I left my son with my parents – I think his morning nursing sessions were WAY more than 4 oz, even though we never gave him larger bottles.
TheElms says
After 3 months, 5-6oz was very normal for my kids as often as every 2 to 3 hours. Sometimes when they ate a lot in the morning they ate less in the afternoon or effectively skipped a feed and took a longer nap. I tried to look at it on a daily basis. I think 24-32 ounces is the range of what’s considered normal, with most babies being around 28-30 ounces a day. I would see what the total is at the end of the day and if its not over 32 ounces I wouldn’t worry at all and if it is I might wait a few days and see if its just a growth spurt. My older one would stuff herself for a few days (like 40 ounces of milk) and her face would get very round and then one night (it seemed like it was overnight – I’m sure it was probably happening a bit more gradually) she would just grow and nothing fit and her face was back to normal.
Anonymous says
Lol. I bet the round face was really cute. My little girl gets a adorable pudgy belly right before she stretches out and is suddenly skinny and longer.
An.On. says
There’s going to be a point at which your kid will just be eating more and unless you increase the time or frequency of pumping, it’s going to be harder and harder to keep pace. For me, I didn’t want to do that. I set a timeframe goal and then once I hit that, I didn’t care much about how fast we ran through the rest of the stash, and it was such a relief to stop pumping and so much easier once we switched to formula. FWIW I don’t think 5 oz at that age is unreasonable, but I’d expect then that you should be seeing longer times in between meals as well.
anon says
at 3 months, my son was already downing 8 oz every 4 hours
Anonymous says
Between 9-5 my 8 month old typically takes 20 ounces, 5 ounces every 2.5 hours (9, 11:30, 2 and 4:30). During a growth spurt he will eat every 2 hours and take 25 ounces. He actually eats even more frequently when I’m nursing – in the morning/evening and on weekends he eats every 90 minutes, although I think he’s taking in closer to 3-4 ounces in those feedings.
He’s never consumed more than 5 ounces in a sitting, ever. People kept telling me that as he got older he would drink more in each sitting and go 4-5 hours between feeds and that’s just…not the case. I started supplementing with formula when my period returned because I had a dip in supply and pumping every 2 hours was exhausting. He gets about 80% milk / 20% formula.
I talked to my pediatrician and she said that total ounces for day ranges from 25-40 ounces. Most babies on the higher end eat way more in a feeding, but if you get a snacky baby who also has a high intake…you end up where I am.
Anonymous says
Oh and adding that I did a weighted feed with a lactation consultant before I went back to work and he was taking 5 ounces per bottle at that time, and he was 4 months old. And he’s never increased since :)
Vicky Austin says
This is super helpful! Thank you!
Clementine says
3 is significantly harder in a different way but also amazing. I have an age gap in there so my oldest is 7 while my little ones are 3 and 1.
A few considerations:
– it’s harder to get someone to watch your kids. You need to pay a sitter or get multiple people to watch them.
-you’ll need a larger vehicle
– more of everything. More food, more plane tickets, more missed days of work, more college.
-you’re a better parent than ever before and you’re going to be shocked at how easy a baby is.
That being said, sometimes I wonder if I would be a better parent of just one or two, but watching my kids teach the baby to talk right now is something I can’t explain. Either answer is right, just make sure you’re all in.
Clementine says
Threading fail.
Boston Legal Eagle says
I think having two made me a better parent, if anything to make it clear that these kids have their own personalities and choices, that have nothing to do with what I did or didn’t do! 3 does seem daunting with the logistics and “all in” sounds about right. The relationship between each is I’m sure something special to witness.
anon says
I agree that having a second kid definitely taught me that parents can influence things, but each kid has their own unique personality, strengths, and challenges. I take things less personally now.
EDAnon says
I agree
ifiknew says
I have two neighbors plus a colleague who all talked about how difficult the 3rd has been, not that their 3rd child is the hardest, but just the logistical challenges of 3. Two of them have even said “I was a very good parent to two kids” like it seems like it really requires letting go / being more flexible with all the numerous ideas modern society has of what good parents do. I think really know yourself and know your tolerance for chaos, mess, someone being unhappy or left out, the idea that you may not have as much control over all the day to day as you can with 1 and 2 and if you have enough help / type of career / are active enough partner to do the work of an extra kid. I am a 2 kid mom and would love in theory to have a 3rd, but am just not wired for the little kid chaos / not being able to clone myself to give as much of myself as I can when I have just one.
anon says
I’m not, either. I know myself, and I know I would really struggle with 3. I am not wired for chaos. (I’m surrounded by 3-kid families.)
Clementine says
This is good to realize! 3 or more is a certain amount of chaos. My house is actually pretty regimented by most standards and it still feels like chaos at times.
Anonymous says
On balance, my 3rd kid was a godsend. My second is the hardest kid and my 3rd was like a gift reassuring me that I’m not actually a bad parent, I just have a hard kid (who is also awesome. But really, really hard.). #3 is was basically cruise control. But I agree re: logistics of everything. My 3rd is carpooled to most of her activities.
anonamommy says
I don’t have 3 but have several friends who have 3+. The hardest thing I see them grapple with is the unpredictableness of it all. I don’t think any of them made it through a week without some kid being home for something until the youngest was in K at least. Sickness runs through the house but not on a set schedule. Covid threw a wrench into everything. One kid is really into sports so that dictates the schedule in part, but now a second kid wants to do something totally different and (setting the cost aside) the logistics are challenging.
Had a realization reading this says
Related to how you’re a better parent or would be a great parent to 2 once you have more, we have four, and whenever I go anywhere with one or kids it is SO EASY. And enjoyable! Because it’s easier! And with what I’ve learned juggling four kids, two is a snap! I really have become a better parent with each kid – more perspective and more tricks in my toolbox and more experience – and that also translates to when I have just one or two of them. It really helps me enjoy the time I get when they’re split up as well as when they’re together.
I also love seeing the various triangulations of kid relationships. The different pairings of my kids are all close but in different ways and that’s probably my favorite thing about parenting.
Anon says
Perhaps i should have two more then since i only have twins so that two will then feel easy…that most certainly will not be happening, but since only occasionally in my entire parenthood journey have i gotten to do something with just one child, i marvel at how easy it is relatively speaking
Anonymous says
I have only one (of three) home this week and it is amazing. like, he’s in bed, the house is clean, DH is off to hang out with some friends, and the night is young and I feel like I have tons of time to myself! All week we’ve been saying, “the house feels so big! and quiet! is this what it’s like for parents of only children ALL the time?!”
Anonymous says
Parent of a high-sleep needs only child here, and I definitely do appreciate the quiet and the long evenings alone after our kiddo is in bed! My house is almost never clean though ;)
Anon says
We’re beginning to TTC and one of my fears is that I’m a really impatient person and everyone tells me you MUST be patient with kids. I think I can work on this and hopefully improve, but right now, I feel like I want to improve and don’t know how. Does anyone have any books, podcasts, or other methods that have improved patience? For more context, I really don’t do well with things like “it’s taking 30 minutes longer to get out the door than we thought” or “toddler’s tantrum means we can’t start cooking dinner.” I’m better with longer-term problems requiring some patience, like caregiving for elderly adults. It’s the day to day that worries me.
Vicky Austin says
Two random bits of advice:
I worried about this before giving birth too. And I’ve really surprised myself with the patience I have for my kid. (I don’t have the same level for my husband or the dog anymore though…) So you might surprise yourself too.
I don’t love everything Dr. Becky Kennedy espouses, but I did see a reel from her recently where her kid was demanding something, they were late, I can’t remember – one of those chaotic situations. And she described thinking to herself: “This is not an emergency. I got this.” That phrasing does help me.
anon says
Same. I am not a patient person and I found that I am must really, really different with my child.
EDAnon says
Same and having kids made me more patient at work too. I think I am a way better manager since having kids.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Take a long deep breath. Leave a lot more time to complete tasks than you think you need. I.e. getting ready to go in the morning – assume an hour or so for a toddler. It’s harder to be patient at night, when you just want to be done and the kids drag.
Anonymous says
I think the biggest thing that helped me was being OK with a kid’s being unhappy. Babies just have to scream sometimes. You can just put them in the carrier and bounce around the house with them. You don’t have to stop them from screaming. You can even set them down for a minute in a swing or bouncer or whatever while they are screaming. It will not, as my pediatrician tried to tell me, cause brain damage. Likewise, you can just pick up a screaming toddler and carry them out of the grocery store. Or let them have a tantrum on the floor while you cook dinner.
Anonymous says
I have a lot of respect for the parents who just strap their tantruming kids into the grocery cart, grit their teeth, and push that cart through the store. I always give them a smile and a nod of solidarity.
Vicky Austin says
Also this. My mom visited immediately post-birth and made a point of saying, “pick him up when he cries, he needs to know you’re there to meet his needs, etc etc.” And when that advice was making me insane at 6 weeks postpartum (when the grandparent visits and friend meals had dried up and the back-to-work anxiety was kicking in), I told her how stressed I was, and she said, “oh my gosh, no, if he’s fed and dry and warm and still screaming, he might just need to scream! Set him down and go brush your teeth!”
My BFF likes to say, “Sometimes it is just very hard to be a baby,” and I found myself repeating that to soothe both me and DS when things were tough.
Anonymous says
Everything new is one of the biggest and most intense things they’ve experienced. I think I’d need to scream now and then too.
Clementine says
I am not a patient person but I am a very patient parent. Most of it comes from me doing Re parenting work with myself (and a therapist) and working to see what I wanted to be doing (teaching my kids how to be kind humans) and what I needed to do to get there (be patient and kind to my small humans).
I think just your self awareness bodes well.
ifiknew says
This is 100% how I am and its greatly surprised me about how my desire to be a certain kind of parent has helped me find SO much patience for my kids that ive never had for any other situation in life.
An.On. says
This isn’t exactly what you asked, but I’ve found it much easier to be patient with my toddler than with the various adults around in my life. While I feel strongly that I, and the people around me, should be able to manage ourselves and our schedules, my kid can’t read a clock or tell time, they don’t have any idea what “five more minutes” feels like. I’m someone who hates being late, and gets frustrated when my husband decides to take a shower just thirty minutes before we’re supposing to be leaving the house. But I find it easy to wait while my kid navigates putting their shoes on by themselves or dawdles over breakfast. It helps to remind myself that most of the deadlines I have are self-imposed ones and that no disaster awaits if I arrive at 7:50 instead of 7:35.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Oh yes, start times for activities and especially bday parties with a toddler or multiple kids are more of a suggestion, at least it’s what I tell myself!
Anonymous says
I am also very impatient. It somehow is easier with your own kids, because you can literally see them learning and growing in front of you, and that requires patience to nurture. That said, when I feel like I’m starting to snap and about to yell, I will tap out and tag my husband in, and he does the same thing. If I do snap, I apologize to them and explain why I was frustrated.
Do I have the stamina to wait in an hour long line at Disney? Not yet! We’ll see how that goes in a few years lol.
you never know says
I think you might surprise yourself. Prior to having kids I would have said I was impatient. I’m actually pretty patient with kids. DH, who I would have described as a patient person before, has struggled much more!
Anonymous says
My husband is patient with external delays but has absolutely zero patience with pokey kids. It stems from his mom’s always making the family late when he was growing up. He views lateness as a sign of disrespect. Observing this makes me think that you can’t solve impatience without understanding the underlying cause.
Anony says
I’m also a very impatient person, but it has surprisingly been easy for me to be very patient with my child. I think it’s just a question of getting it – like with an adult, I sometimes have trouble understanding why someone is slowing things down and (in my view) being difficult, but with children, it’s so clearly understandable a lot of the time and it makes it much easier to roll with it with empathy.
Anon says
Thanks everyone – these responses are surprisingly reassuring!!
Anon says
Counter to all the impatient ppl here who are patient with their kids: I am impatient in life and with my kids. I am working very hard on this and see a therapist for this.
You won’t know what kind of parent you will be until you become one. And each kid brings out a different parent in you. Just be kind to yourself and acknowledge that there are so many factors that have shaped you and the type of parent you may initially be (inter generational trauma, your parents, etc). Then take whatever steps needed to become the parent you want to be.
Anon says
I am also impatient in life and with my kids. I think I’m generally a good mom but impatience is one of my worst qualities.
Anonymous says
I am also impatient and you can find some workarounds. Pad all departure times to allow for delay. No endless “gentle parenting” emotional discussions. Limit choices and opportunities for distraction. Sequence morning and evening routines strategically to minimize the number of transitions. Prioritize–if you want your kid to tie their own shoes, focus on that and just hand them their shoes instead of making them get the shoes out of the closet too. And don’t watch Bluey or you will feel incredibly inadequate.
Anon says
Haha, I hate Bluey! Everyone I know loves it but it drives me crazy. My husband is the human embodiment of Bandit and it makes me feel extremely inadequate.
Anonymous says
What you are describing sounds like anxiety to me. I would start with a therapist. Having grown up with a parent who would become extraordinarily irritable in those situations, due to untreated anxiety, my brother and I are both doing a lot of work to not parent that way.
Anon says
Can you say more about that? What makes you think OP’s is that versus a personality trait?
Anonymous says
Only anecdotal experience of my parent and also myself and my brother – doing work to unpack WHY we felt such impatience about things like that.
anonM says
I believe patience is a skill you can practice and improve. I have gotten a lot better 5 years and 2 kids into parenting. +1 to suggestions above, like adding in buffer times and being realistic about how long it takes to get out the door. Also, you can practice now with techniques like deep breaths, visualizing, reframing practicing gratitude and empathy, etc. I find these things really do help (ex- this appointment is running so late reframe as -> I’m so glad I have health insurance and access to quality medical care) even if I’m not perfect at it. Hunt Gather Parent has some good things on why you want to remain calm and not get angry, which might be helpful to you in framing why patience isn’t just some good virtue in theory, but why it will help you be a better parent.
govtattymom says
Advice for making the summer special? We went on a summer beach week in June and now we don’t have anything fun planned for the rest of the summer. This combined with having attended several funerals and sad events the past few weeks is making me feel a bit down. Tips for enjoying the rest of the summer without booking another vacation? Thanks in advance!
Anon says
Look up the concept of microadventures! Alistair Humphreys has some good writing on that concept (I believe he coined the term) and Laura Vanderkam has written on similar themes as well. They make a HUGE difference in quality of life and enjoyment of the ordinary.
Alistair Humphreys Fan says
+1
Anonymous says
Little things: Order pizza and have dinner at the neighborhood pool. Popsicles in the backyard. Blow bubbles outside. Library summer reading program.
DLC says
How about trying a different frozen treat/ice cream place every week? I just read about Iceland’s ice cream road trip tradition- basically get in the car, meanderingly drive to ice cream, meanderingly drive home while eating ice cream…. Low key yet sounds so much like summer to me.
https://visitreykjavik.is/news/do-you-know-about-isbiltur
I’m sorry you’re having a tough go of it.
Anon says
We like to create a summer bucket list and work through it. There have been threads here in the past about summer bucket lists and what people put on them. I also like to do early pickups as much as possible in the summer, and we normally don’t send kids to camp for the final 1.4 weeks (our schools always start on Wednesday, weirdly) so we can have some downtime at home together.
But commiseration, and sorry for your losses. I inadvertently spent almost all of July separated from my kids (10 day couples vacation, then I tested positive for Covid and am currently spending 10 days isolated) and they go back the first full week of August so it all feels like it’s sleeping away too fast.
Anonymous says
Yes on the list! Some ideas- local berry picking (we drive to one about 30 minutes away that is also near an awesome playground, so that’s kind of a special summer thing since we only go there when we’re berry picking), major or minor league baseball games depending on your kids stamina, pool time, or if you don’t have a pool get a blowup for your backyard, eat outside as much as possible, I got an ice cream maker and have been cranking out homemade ice cream, also making tons of recipes from farmers markets, eating lots of corn on the cob.
Anon says
I love camping. Tent camping will require an investment in some gear, but many state parks will rent yurts / cabins and we’ve found these mini-vacations to be a great, unplugged time to relax. My 9 yo son and I frequent a campground that’s only 30 minutes from our house, but in a campground that includes a great playground and a swimming lake. We bring a hammock, a bunch of books, bikes, and sometimes just go stay for an afternoon through the next morning. No devices are allowed (his or mine) so it’s a great time to connect.
Anonymous says
Thanks everyone for the awesome responses!
EDAnon says
That is an amazing idea!
Anon says
Can you set a schedule of sorts of doing fun things? Either that you do Y on Tuesdays and X on Thursdays or just know that you have a rough idea that you want to do X and Y weekly and will choose a day and “surprise” your kids that it’s that day.
For example: order pizza and eat it at the pool, walk into town and get ice cream, bike along the nature trail, firepit smores in the yard, eat outdoors (at home with a “special food” or at a restaurant), a park picnic, have a family outdoor game night (a game of Horse or cornhole or whatever you have).
For less frequent things, could you pick 1 activity a weekend and carve out a few hours to do something special? Not sure how old your kids are but maybe go to a spray park, a MLB game, town carnival, backyard camping and smores, or a new playground? A trip to a new but nearby destination? Free concert in the park and picnic dinner (which can be takeout!!). Water balloon fight (even better if you can coordinate and make it neighborhood wide!).
Schedule a big treat like a water park, amusement park or a day trip to a lake or beach?
Try to remember what worked well from this summer so you can start making these into traditions. Who knows, maybe in a few years your kids will get out of school and already be looking forward to XYZ activity because it’s become a family summer tradition.
anon says
Agree with all of the above re: summer bucketlists or becoming a tourist in your own city
– Drive to next town over for new ice cream/park/ etc..
– Let the kids stay up as late as they want and have a lazy sleep in the next day
– Family movie Fridays- I like to find movies from my childhood to watch with the kids, just try to find something new, make it a tradition with fun snacks, cozy blankets, special bowls, etc….
– Play hooky for a day (this is a know your kid day if they would prefer a surprise or not) and let them choose everything you do for the day within choices – like movie theater or splash pad, mexican or italian for lunch, ice cream or a bakery. It’s awesome if this can be both parents and 1 kid at a time
– Take pictures of these and get them printed in a book (google photos can print to Walgreens)
Take all of the ideas you want and have the kids write them out or you could write them and pull from a jar each week. The key is letting the kids know something fun is coming, I think it’s the anticipation for them- where they can count on something new/fun/silly each week.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
Greetings from a subtropical climate where we’ve been in SUMMER mode since May. We have a vacation planned for Mid-August. DS #1 created a summer fun list, and we’ve been working through it. Here’s what we’ve been doing:
– Dinners out during the week – even if it’s fast food – after camp/preschool
– Beach days – have one tomorrow, have one planned for August – doesn’t have to be beach but whatever is available near you (lake, park, etc.)
– Tons of pool time – we go to our nearby Y or friends’ homes
– Lots of frozen treats – making ice cream is on DS #1’s list and I just borrowed an ice cream maker to do so
– DS #1 stays up “late” – until 8:30, 9 at the latest and we spend 1/1 time (sometimes it’s snuggling up and watching YT)
This week we took the kids to breakfast 2x – once all of us to our nearby donut place and once DH took DS #1 while I had ST with DS #2.
These things aren’t limited to summer but do make this stretch of time feel more intentional and special. DS #1 starts public Kinder in late-August and I just feel like time is flying by…
Anonymous says
Yesterday my older son asked if we could stop at the park after we picked up little brother and get ice cream and play on the playground before dinner. I was like, it’s summer, why the heck not. It ended up being really fun and I was so glad to be able to say yes to something.
We also try to bike to camp once a week (we are very lucky that it’s on the other side of our neighborhood basically and there are sidewalks on the two big main roads).
Anonymous says
Any advice for sensory avoidant kids on getting them to cooperate with finger taping or splinting? Child is 8, has worn a bandaid maybe five times in his life due to sensory issues, and has a bad finger jam that he would not allow us to tape this morning. Heading to the doctor so I’m hoping he’s old enough to understand he needs to do what the doctor says… (he didn’t sleep well bc of the pain and was VERY IRRITABLE so I’m also hoping that post-pain meds and breakfast he’ll be in a better headspace). Consequences don’t work that well with this one.
Anonymous says
Can you allow him to pick out the color/design of the tape? I’m sorry, this is the worst. My kid hates taking medicine so we go through this whenever he’s sick (miserable but won’t do the thing that will help him).