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Anon says
Husband and I are thinking about getting a Nintendo switch for our four-year-old and eight-year-old. is this a good idea? We have no experience with video games and aren’t sure if this is the right age to get this system. Any thoughts or experiences to share appreciated! Relatedly, we don’t have a TV ( just use computers). are we going to need to buy one to use the switch?
Anonymous says
You won’t need to buy a TV but “No TV” + “buying a 4 year old video games” isn’t a screen time choice that makes sense to me.
Anon says
I read it not as that they don’t watch TV, but that they just don’t own a physical TV because they use computers or tablets for streaming.
Cb says
Half the people we know (academics) “don’t own a TV” but use their laptop instead. We have 1 small TV in the sitting room, and I like to be able to tell what my kid is watching at a glance.
Anon says
Yeah, we own one and I wouldn’t want to give it up (I like a big screen, plus being able to do work on the computer while watching TV) but I don’t think it’s that weird to not own one.
GCA says
We’ve never owned a physical tv of any sort because we were so transient in our 20s and 30s (academic family moving from apartment to apartment; when we had toddlers we bought tablets for travel and then used them for kid screen time at home). We’re now considering getting one for family movie nights, so we can stop crowding onto a daybed in the study to watch on an awkwardly angled monitor. And so the kids can experience the joy of negotiating what to watch together, lol.
Anonymous says
Yeah I got that. I just find it odd.
OP says
Agreed, that would make zero sense if that was what I said! Not having a TV has nothing to do with screen time though, we just haven’t felt a need for a TV.
GCA says
We have a Switch. The 8yo and 5yo share it – in our family, gaming of all sorts is a social activity no matter the medium, so they play with each other, parents, and friends who are in the same room. There’s a lot of Super Smash Brothers going on and a bit of Mario Kart.
We don’t have a TV either (but are considering getting one, sales look good right now) so we hook it up to a large monitor in the study. (Well, my husband connects it. I have static thumbs, the electronic equivalent of a gardener’s brown thumb.)
OP says
Thanks! This is exactly how we are imagining using it. 😊
Anonymous says
If you are going to hook it up to a monitor make sure to get the original Switch, not the Switch Lite. On the other hand, if you are not going to hook it up to a monitor get them each their own Switch Lite.
Spirograph says
It’s just a basic HDMI input / output, so it’s equally easy with a computer monitor or a TV!
Anon says
I think a switch is better for older kids. My 10 yo still finds many games too challenging/frustrating. I’d suggest waiting until 5th or 6th grade.
My 7 yo prefers the very simple games on her Kindle Fire.
Boston Legal Eagle says
My 7 year old has recently gotten into Minecraft, which he plays on the switch, so I think your older one at least, OP, can find some simpler games. I think you can connect it to any screen, or just play on the device.
Puppy Teeth! says
we did this last year for my then 7 and 5 year olds. we do little TV time and it’s been great. like another commenter said, it’s a family activity. there is an option to play Switch as a handheld device, which we don’t allow. you’ll need a monitor or TV to keep it as a group activity. we are very selective about games. games like Mario kart offer neat features to keep it doable for young kids, like lane assist so they can’t go off the tracks and constant forward propulsion.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Hey Puppy Teeth, how is your puppy? I feel like we should form a support group for young puppies like during the newborn days! We were away this weekend (luckily grandparents watched her), so it was a bit of an adjustment to come back to the morning routine of constantly watching her and having her nip our oldest.
Puppy Teeth! says
yay, Boston Legal Eagle! I feel this on the support group and have thought the same. I’m glad you were able to get away and had good pup sitters!! how did puppy do? also, what breed is your puppy?
we are doing A LOT better. I have tremendous gratitude to you and others who let me dump on here and provided e encouragement. he just celebrated 3 weeks at home with us and the difference is huge. he is now my buddy and I’m overly attached. I went from crying everyday in the 1st week to being ready to slap a bumper sticker on my car about how much I love my dog.
so fun story with us, we adopted a rescue that we were told was a black lab. he was found in a field with his 3 brothers. honestly, we should have been skeptical of pure bred labs ending up in a rescue, but we weren’t. we were just excited that we found a rescue pup. we committed to adoption and in the few days wait while he got his final check ups, shots, etc, the post for one of this brothers was updated under “breed” and it turns out he’s a labradane – a black lab mixed with a great dane. we were already committed and this didn’t change our commitment but it did throw a wrench in things as he is forking huge. he’s now thought to be 3.5 months and weighs 45 pounds. he’s gaining 5-7 pounds a week. it’s been a wild ride but I think we got the dog we needed.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Oh man, I bet he is adorable! My MIL has a huge black lab and she was great, super calm at now 3 years old. Ours is a golden retriever – we went the breeder route as we wanted this specific breed and I’m a first time dog owner so wanted a more or less guaranteed kid-friendly dog! 4 months old, still chewing everything, and getting bigger everyday. She’s getting us up at 5:45am on the dot, so luckily we’re already used to this with kids who get up at 6!
Wait wait wait says
Wait, we have a six month old golden retriever puppy! And young kids, including a 2 and 4 year old. We definitely need a puppy support group! It sounds like we are all in the same boat! Ours is 56 pounds – he’s big too. I was ready for puppy, I was not ready for how integrating such a big dog would go with the small kids. That part has been hard. He’s got a great personality but it’s been tough. (I’m a regular poster but quit using the same name back when people were being pretty mean on here at one point.)
GCA says
agree with the easy mode features. I will add that the dexterity jump between age 4 and age 5 has been literally game-changing for my now-5yo! She used to get so frustrated…
Spirograph says
You don’t need a TV to use the Switch, but some of the best games are better displayed on a TV. And while my kids demonstrated over the weekend that it is possible to play multi-player games lying on the floor with your face 6 inches from the tiny Switch screen… if you think the kids will want to play anything together, or if you and your husband might want to join in family Mariokart, it’s a much more enjoyable experience to sit on the couch and look at a larger screen.
As for age-appropriateness, my youngest was definitely playing Switch games at 4. He wasn’t good at them, but he liked it.
Anon says
You can also use a computer monitor to display the switch if you don’t have a tv. We do this, though it’s generally not as comfy of a setup.
Anonymous says
There are some co-branded Lego games that are good for younger kids (and cheap).
Anonymous says
Oh my first thought was “fun bathrobe” so this is a no from me.
Anonymous says
right I feel like pregnancy is not the time to be fashionable. I wanted to blend in, not stand out.
anon says
At what age do weekends with kids become fun? I have 3 under 3 and I find myself looking forward to daycare resuming each Monday. I hate that I feel like this but between childcare and general household chores, weekends are a slog.
Boston Legal Eagle says
3 under 3 is a lot!!! It’s completely normal to feel this way at this stage. I’d say our weekends at ages 5 and 7 are still busy and don’t leave much time for our own activities, but much more enjoyable now than when they were younger. Once your older ones are 3 and 5 or 4 and 6, it’ll get better. Every day is a gradual change and one day you’ll look around and see both kids occupied with their own activities on the weekend and wonder what to do with yourself (us yesterday, getting back from our trip, where I was actually able to unpack right away!)
Anon says
It is better if you can find ways to make the childcare part more fun. My favorite weekend activity with little ones was to have another family over for “brunch” at a stupidly early hour. The parents would sip coffee while the kids played. We usually cut up fruit and the other family would bring pastries. Super low effort (kids would even still be in PJs) but it was always a nice morning.
We tried to invite over families who we didn’t feel the need to “prep” for to minimize the frantic cleaning.
GCA says
This is kind of genius. We used to take my early riser out to ‘brunch’ when he was tiny, except ‘brunch’ was at 8am and the only other people in the diner were families with small children.
Question for OP: what times of the weekend feel hardest? For me it’s always late afternoon Sunday when all the fun outings/ playdates are over and everyone is kind of grouchy, hangry and melting down. That’s when we’d often break out the water play: either on the kitchen floor with a parent cooking dinner, or in the tub with a bunch of bath toys so they are contained, washed, and ready for PJs by the time dinner rolls around.
Anon says
My favorite way to enjoy the weekends with 2 under 3 (and I have one who never really got into imaginary or quiet solitary play – he is gross motor play all the way, so would absolutely go up the walls if we tried to stay inside all day coloring or doing crafts) was to drive like 1.25 hours away to a really pretty outdoor setting, ideally on the water — like a stream or small river at a nature center with a park. Kill a bunch of time getting ready, then driving there, then play next to a stream for like an hour while one kid throws rocks in the river or plays at a new park and my husband or I would have the other kid in a carrier. Then maybe a picnic lunch, then both kids fall asleep for the drive home, then stop to eat at a really family friendly restaurant for a super early dinner. Some low key play at home, then bed, and you feel like you’ve been SO productive bc you spent most of the day out of the house.
Anon says
I have an only child, so very different from 3 under 3, but ages 2-3 was peak weekend slog – it was also peak Covid though, and it’s hard to fully separate that out. At 4+ it starts to get more fun because they have a lot more going on (parties, play dates, activities) and you can go on outings to more interesting places. But it’s also more exhausting. Truthfully I find weekends more tiring now at age 6 than I did with a baby who still napped, but it’s a good kind of tired.
Anonymous says
I have 3 and we had a mega road trip this weekend and commented that, despite its length and hiccups, it was actually fun. We drove 13 hours to see a family member for thanksgiving. Rented a big fun Airbnb, did a turkey trot, went on a big outdoor adventure, spent time with family and pets, then broke the 13 hour drive home into a long day with random roadside stops where we landed at great Wolf lodge, then spent the night and next day there and left at 5pm and rolled in at 10:30pm last night (kids went to bed in the car).
Crazy? Yes. But the kids (5,7,10) behaved and had a ball. Also, they lobbied for the trip so they were vested.
Anonymous says
The key is to start doing things with your kids, not thinking of weekends as time you have to babysit the kids. As they get older this will be easier. I take one of my kids skiing, or DH takes them to the movies, or I’ll take one for brunch and a mani/pedi.
Anon says
+1. Getting out and doing things will help YOUR perception of the weekend so much, even if the kids have the same meltdowns they would have at home.
anon says
Yeah, I agree you can do those things—-but not with the under 3 crowd. You aren’t taking a 2yr old to a movie or manicure. This starts to be more fun with the 4, 5, and 6 year olds.
We are 3 under 6 and we are JUST now getting to fun weekends. Our goal is to get outside as much as possible, but YMMV re: locale.
Hang in there, it does get better. Just this weekend we took the 20 month old and 6 year old to lunch and they both ATE at the table and didn’t mess with anything. A GD delight.
Anon says
We try to do this but like OP, have 1 and 3 year old, so somewhat limited in what we can do by nap schedules. Suggestions of activities to do with kids this age? On weekends we see family, invite friends over, go to restaurants, go to the zoo/parks/museums. We’ve also done very short hikes (more like nature walks).
We drag kids with us on errands too, if necessary.
Anonymous says
I think splitting the kids helps immensely, even more so w/ kids close in age who will be fighting over the same things (or wanting to play together, but then disagreeing on how to play). Even at 3 and 6 we get maybe 5% nicely playing together and 95% “He smashed my Lego truck!” “It was an accident” “Didn’t look like it” (unintelligible crying). So DH will take the older one skiing or just on regular errands while I handle chores at home w/ the little one who still naps somewhat.
But with 3 under 3, it’s survival mode. I would aim for one low key morning outing (walk, playground, library) and get everyone who can nap to nap after lunch so you get somewhat of a break (my 6yo gets screen time during nap so I can get stuff done reliably). As for actual relaxing on a weekend, this remains elusive.
Anonymous says
IME the peak age for weekend fun is 2.5 – 6. Life is not ruled by naptime and even grocery shopping is fun. Once they get into sports and activities it becomes a survival crawl again.
Anon says
But it’s a choice to put your kids in tons of activities and you can opt out of that. Also this may be regional, but in my area basically nothing happens on Sundays due to church, so even the busiest kids typically have one low key weekend day.
Anonymous says
It’s a choice for sure, but it’s what our only child wants and it’s important to me to let her pursue her passions because I was denied that opportunity as a child. YMMV.
Anonymous says
Even if you try to opt out of activities, once the kids get to middle school and high school and can participate in school activities it is very difficult to say no. A lot of school-based activities have significant weekend commitments.
Anon says
Ok, but that’s a very different story than age 6 – I was taking issue with the idea that at 6 your weekends have to be taken over by activities. My kid is 6 and the majority of her friends are still very light on activities.
Anon says
Just chiming in for those of you headed towards activities to say that I utterly and absolutely *love* activities with my older kids. I love getting to know other parents again (it reminds me of the daycare days when I got to know parents at birthday parties or dop off/pick up), I love watching my kids do things they love. It gives order and structure to our weekends, and I love seeing my kids find their “thing” and thrive. We go out to eat after activities and celebrate victories/cheer up after tough losses or disappointments. It’s really bonded my kids – who are in totally different activities.
Spirograph says
I only had 3 under 4, but that seems close enough that I feel qualified to say: it is next to impossible to make weekends “fun” at that age. Not to say that there won’t be individual activities that are fun, but it’s just exhausting for two straight days if you’re also trying to cram in household management stuff. It is totally normal (or at least I absolutely felt the same way) to look forward to daycare on Monday. Outsource as many chores and errands as you can, or if possible, trade off kid duty for all 3 with your partner rather than trying to divide and conquer with each of you taking one or two kids– I still see a solo trip to the grocery store as kind of like vacation.
Youngest = 3 was a big turning point for me. At that age you can kind of turn them loose on a playground without hovering, or go for a (short) hike and reasonably expect everyone to walk & play off-trail on rocks and logs.
AwayEmily says
Endorse all of this. I think all of the suggestions about making it more fun are good ones, but at some point it just is going to be HARD. I definitely remember many conversations with my husband about how happy we were to have Monday mornings roll around — not because we don’t love spending time with our kids, but because keeping toddlers/babies from self-destructing for 48 hours straight is just EXHAUSTING.
For us the turning point was when our youngest turned 2.5 (older one was 4.5). Combo of the older one being able to keep half an eye on the younger one, plus the younger being able to be more trusted alone.
Now, kids are 1.5, 5, and 7 and the weekends are an absolute joy and even relaxing.
Anon says
I would suggest reading Laura Vanderkam for good thoughts on these subjects. I just started her book 168 Hours and I’ve liked her other work on how to get the most out of your time (for enjoyment’s sake, not productivity’s sake).
TheElms says
I only had 2 under 3, and it was a huge slog in the beginning and going back to work was a huge break from the weekends. I used to start on Monday morning and just sit in silence and drink my coffee for 20 minutes and it was pure bliss. Kids are 4.5 and almost 2 now and its so much better, but still hard. The hard is measured in hours rather than all day though and if both kids are having a good morning it can be close to fun. We are seeing more glimmers of them playing with each other too, which is fantastic. It does generally end hysterically screaming/crying/tears still but hopefully that will improve. And more and more now when its hard its because we choose to do something hard, like do a long distance drive to visit family or take both kids to a museum, rather than its impossible and all we are trying to do is feed everyone breakfast. It is ok to not like this stage. You’re still a great mom.
Anon says
I’m looking for an affordable, comfy sweater dress for the holidays/winter that will look good over a first trimester belly and early second trimester bump. Any ideas? I want a high neck and for it to be fitted with stretch.
anonM says
I just got one from old navy- haven’t gotten it yet, but I’m optimistic.
Anonymous says
I saw one like this at & Other Stories
Anon says
I have a soon-to-be 3 year old and a 6 year old. Weekends are mostly fun, but they definitely have their moments. We had both kids home Thurs-Sun, and it was a great holiday overall, but both DH and I were tired by last night. :) I’m looking forward to reading what others say.
Generally I think the key is not expecting you have to do it all – every chore and every hour with the kids. I’m also pretty relaxed on screentime, especially with my older one.
We outsource a lot of the “chores” – we have a cleaner come every few weeks, get grocery delivery most weeks, etc. DH and I also have designated solo times on weekends when we switch off with kids – he takes Saturday evenings, I have Sunday mornings. On Sat AM we divide and conquer – I take the kids to the Y, work out while they are in the childcare, DH tends to the yard/his plants and then heads to the Y.
We still have plenty to do around the house on weekends, but this creates some much-needed space.
Anon says
Whoops, threading fail.
Anon says
I agree on outsourcing chores as much as possible. We don’t spend much time doing chores on the weekend. The only thing I can really think of is a weekly grocery pickup and that isn’t a very big time commitment (usually less than 30 minutes total, even factoring in putting away the groceries at home).
Anon says
Did it take anyone a long time to bond with your baby? I have an 11 week old. She was born early, so is five weeks adjusted. I never really felt connected to her during the pregnancy. And since her birth, I love her but it’s not the overwhelming parental love that you hear about. I really don’t think I have PPD. It’s just hard because she doesn’t yet smile at me, seem to recognize my voice, or really be interactive with me at all.
Anonymous says
The magical bonding is overhyped. You are not a bad mother and don’t necessarily have PPD if you don’t feel it. I didn’t feel like my baby was an actual person that I could connect with until she became more interactive. Until then she was mainly a fragile bundle of demands.
Anon says
Some people aren’t baby people. That’s okay. It’s a stereotype, but many dads bond more once the baby becomes interactive, but I’m sure this is true for moms too.
Some people also are more reasoned and don’t get swept away in emotion. That’s me. I love my kids but have never felt swept away. That’s just how I roll.
Anon says
Yes, my first, who was also early and a lot about his birth circumstances/timing was unsettling. I was even plagued with worry that I wouldn’t even recognize him in a baby line up, lol. A first baby can be hard because it’s such an identity and lifestyle shift, not to mention the hormone crashes that just make everything feel out of sorts. We also had a lot of struggles breastfeeding. The bonding did come, but it took months. (And FWIW I bonded with my next two babies almost immediately). Remember: love is an action, and a choice, not a feeling. You are loving your baby. Trust the rest to time.
Anon says
Honestly, I think that is pretty normal. It comes with time.
An.On. says
Yeah, I remember that. They don’t have real personalities and their only activities are sleeping, eating, pooping and crying, none of which are super rewarding. I guess I would describe it like my job: I did it and I tried to do a good job at it and I was pleased when it went well but I didn’t love it and I was glad when my shift ended. Smiling was a huge improvement, as was laughing/giggling.
Anonymous says
Hang in there! I remember vividly when my son learned to crawl and would crawl over to me and climb in my lap and I thought, “oh, he really likes me!” Smiles and laughter before that were also rewarding of course, but my point is, as he got more interactive and easier to understand, it got a lot more rewarding. Tiny babies are inscrutable and somewhat terrifying. I never knew what he wanted.
Anonymous says
I think this is common if there is any trauma relating to your pregnancy/birth, and if I’m reading it right she was born 6 weeks early? She will smile very soon! And then be laughing which is the absolute best. But to be honest, I did feel an overwhelming love at 1 week post-birth. I’d still keep an eye out for PPD.
Anonymous says
I would keep monitoring PPD. But looking back, the love I felt for DS in those first weeks was kind of buried by being in survival mode. There is just so much to take care of and so much to do and I had had a traumatic birth so was managing that as well. Yes, it will get easier when your baby starts smiling, etc. But make sure you take moments for yourself to just be present. It’s not a race, and the bottles/ diapers/ swaddling can sometimes wait.
Anon says
so i had twins 5 weeks early and one of them spent her first 10 days in the NICU and it took me a long time to bond with her and honestly at the beginning I wasn’t so bonded with either…but I did have PPD/PPA. in another couple of weeks she shoudl start smiling or cooing a bit which makes it a little easier
Anonymous says
Newborns are boring and kind of annoying to care for. I loved my daughter, but for a few months, she definitely felt like a chore just as much as anything else. Once she could interact, she became the center of my heart in a new way. The love builds every day. Give it time.
Post-holiday AITA says
We spent Wednesday night to Sunday afternoon at my in-laws’ house with a toddler. Mostly things went well. But…
All the adults there are either retired or unemployed and normally sleep from around 3am to around 11 am. LB is typically up around 5 am and I try to keep him quiet-ish for a few hours, but he does wail when he doesn’t get what he wants. No one complained to me, but I overheard BIL saying he didn’t sleep well because of LB’s “piercing shriek”.
Question is, what time is noise okay? When normal people would be awake? When most or the residents are up? When everyone is up?
Anonymous says
These adults’ sleep schedule is nuts, even for people without jobs. I would get a hotel room.
Anon says
Ha, that would be my sleep schedule if I didn’t have a job or kids. I don’t think OP is an a-hole though – kid noise after about 7 am is pretty reasonable and expected.
Anonymous says
Oh I wouldn’t entertain this at all. Stay in a hotel these losers are annoying.
anon says
Yikes this is unkind and unnecessary. Stop.
Anonymous says
Don’t worry about it. BIL is right: a child’s piercing shriek is hard to sleep through. And you’re right: your child is a normal child on a normal sleep schedule, and keeping a normal child from wailing and shrieking is impossible. Just shrug it off.
(Also, I’m a morning person and shudder at their sleep schedule, but I have night-owl relatives who would love to live this way if they could.)
Spirograph says
Quiet hours are until 7am. After that, you don’t get to complain if you’ve purposely co-located yourself with a toddler.
That said, after the first Thanksgiving when my oldest was a baby, we got an AirBnB for Thanksgiving for the next several years. It raised some eyebrows because my family has always just piled into my grandparents’ one-bathroom house, but it worked out better for everyone — kids got quiet at bedtime, and adults got quiet in the morning. We’d come over around 9am and join everyone for breakfast (second-breakfast for the kids).
Anon says
Yep, a hotel is the answer but it doesn’t make anyone the a-hole.
Anon says
My town’s noise ordinance says you can mow lawns and use leaf blowers between 7am and 8pm. So I would say you use reasonable efforts to try and keep shrieking to a minimum before 7am, and after that, you don’t sweat it at all.
Also 100% stay in a hotel the next time.
Also that is a crazy odd schedule.
Anon says
Maybe I’m a terrible person, but I wouldn’t care that much if my child woke up my in laws. Obviously it’s not ideal but they know what they’re in for by inviting a toddler to stay with them. It’s part of the family experience. As long as you’re making an effort and not letting the kid scream outside of their bedroom door, I think you’re good.
Anonymous says
We try to keep the kids quiet until around 8, but it hear you. My toddler also shrieked violently about his toast not being ‘right’ first thing Thanksgiving morning at like 6:30. Everyone wears earplugs and luckily they get over it.
GCA says
If budget allows, get a hotel room. You’ve clearly married into a night owl family, and unless your toddler is also a night owl, typical toddler hours are way off from so that toddler wake times would barely overlap with other family members’. Dealing with toddler demands in a hotel room is hard, but I would be so stressed out to have to tiptoe around and keep a kid quiet for six hours while waiting for other people to get up. If you get a hotel, you can just do your own morning outings and head to the in-laws’ house after lunch and naptime, then escape in the evening to put the toddler to bed.
GCA says
*way off from those hours, so that toddler wake times would barely overlap
Anonymous says
When you have company over, IMO reasonable quiet hours end at 7am.
If there is a baby in the house, all bets are off.
anonM says
7am is reasonable. If you can push it until 8, great. But 11? totally unreasonable with kids. I also wouldn’t wait around for these folks to get up – once you’re ready for the day, I’d go do something fun as trying to keep a toddler quiet inside for hours is horrible (and I’ve been there! I get this totally!). Kids are kids and if your in laws invited you and your kids, 7am is reasonable. BIL can get a hotel room, as it’s the parents who are the hosts here (from how you worded it anyways, that’s my assumption). If BIL gets worse, “BIL, MIL invited us all here, presumably understanding that toddlers will do toddler things like yell, laugh, and probably throw some food. Is there something you’d like to discuss with arrangements, other than changing my toddler into a quiet house plant?” Ok, maybe I wouldn’t say all that, but I’d sure think it! Maybe a sarcastic, “did I hear you offer to get up at 5 with DS? What a sweet uncle you are!” This is so rude, especially when some uncles would be thrilled to get up with your kiddo and give you a break. All you’re asking for is some understanding that kids are kids. It’s the literal least he can do. Good luck!
Anon says
I agree that keeping the kids silent past 7 am is not necessary, but that’s a really aggressive response to what sounds like a pretty benign comment about toddler-interrupted sleep.
anonM says
About half the comments say to just stay in a hotel rather than even try to address this? As I admitted in the comment I said I’d probably not actually say all that, but it’s clearly not benign if most people are saying they’d ditch even staying under the same roof again, so not sure how this is more “aggressive.” Perhaps more confrontational. Obviously families are different, but mine would be pretty upset if I refused to stay next year and just got a hotel, and it would come with questions so at some point you’ll have to address this. The one time I admitted in front of my in laws that it was tiring watching a toddler at their un-babyproofed house, they started doing things like moving candles, bringing out some toys, etc. I’m glad I said something. This thing where everyone just passive-aggressively avoids all confrontation is one path, but it could be more enjoyable long-term to just address BIL now and maybe folks will be a little more accommodating.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
+1 – this is where I would land. And if it’s DH’s/a partner’s side, I’d ask them to ask :)
Spirograph says
Eh, it depends a bit on the house, too. I didn’t switch to an air bnb to be passive aggressive. It’s just that my grandparents’ house was a nightmare for trying to wrangle toddlers’ sleep, and there was no reasonable way to fix that. Typical Thanksgiving at that time was my grandparents, mom, at least 2 sets of aunts and uncles, and a bunch of late-teens/early 20’s cousins and their boyfriend/girlfriends. The house had one bathroom, and the sleeping arrangements for all the grandkids (which included me and my family) were basically a bunkroom or slumber party in the living room. My husband was *so* uncomfortable with being crammed in with all my extended family, and although I was used to it, he had a good point that we were much more relaxed being able to parent in private at kids’ bedtime and first thing in the morning. And everyone was happier getting more sleep (and with small children being better-rested).
NTA for both OP and BIL in her original story. She made a good faith effort to keep the toddler quiet, and it didn’t seem like BIL was purposely talking about the piercing shriek so she could overhear, more likely just responding to someone’s morning small talk of, “did you sleep alright?”
Anonymous says
I think 8AM is reasonable. But I also understand how unpleasant it is to be woken up by other people’s kids. I think as long as no one is complaining to you, it’s not your problem, and you should assume that that is the tradeoff they are willing to make for the pleasure of your company.
All that said, we did one family trip in a big house a few years ago and I vowed never again after my SIL lightly complained about my children making noise in the morning and I felt so stressed/obligated to try to keep them quiet from 6AM-10AM, when everyone else finally woke up. My mom and ILs have suggested doing it again, but that miserable four hours every morning (weather wasn’t great, so we couldn’t go outside) really made an impact on me.
Anon says
So, I think I saw a real downside from unlimited screentime while traveling this weekend. I went to the greater Yosemite area with my sister’s family (including her 3.5-year-old) and her rule for screentime, which I always planned to imitate (pregnant with my first), was that there are no limits while in the car or on planes. Her son was on the iPad watching downloaded shows with headphones and as a result, he missed seeing a bear cross the road. His mom shouted and waved but he couldn’t hear over the headphones and was too engrossed to see the waving. She’s so, so bummed because when we were kids and saw a bear from the car (ONE time ever), it was a highlight for years to come. Trying to encourage her not to beat herself up but she’s revising their rule now to say no iPad while traveling in scenic areas with wildlife. I think it’s a good adjustment…
Anonymous says
We do unlimited screen time on planes and in the car except that once we cross into a national park, screens get put away.
Anon says
Eh, I missed a bear that my whole family saw, and I was driving so definitely wasn’t using screens. Bears crossing the road are a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it thing.
Also I think kids being bored by scenery is kind of a time-honored tradition, with or without screens. I missed many beautiful sights while reading books in the back of the car on family vacations, and now as an adult I of course want to see all those places badly :) My attitude – and maybe being/having an only child is a factor – is that scenery-based family vacations are built around the adults and are pretty boring for kids, and if books or screens make it more bearable for the kid, that’s great. We do some vacations that are more kid-focused, but if the trip is planned around what my husband and I want to do (e.g., scenery), I have no problem letting my kid have screens.
NYCer says
I agree with this.
Anon says
I always liked scenery vacations as a kid. Screens weren’t around the way they are today so weren’t an option anyway, but I actually liked seeing all the weird rock formations and burned trees from forest fires and odd roadside attractions. I want my kid to have the option to see those things too. I think screens take away the choice because they’re too addicting (at least at young ages).
Anon says
I think it’s a personality thing, not a screen thing. I never had screens for travel as a kid and was bored to tears on scenic drives in amazing places like Norway and New Zealand that I would love to visit now. TBH I know plenty of adults who find scenery and wildlife boring. My husband and I visited an elephant sanctuary in Thailand and stayed there for about 48 hours. I was in heaven, he was ready to go after about 30 minutes because “we saw the elephants already.” Not everyone has the same interests and that’s ok. I don’t see the harm in letting kids having something else to do if they find scenery or wildlife boring.
Anon says
I think that could be reasonable if you know for sure that your kid doesn’t like scenery, but 3.5 seems too early to put the kid into that box. And the siren song of the screen closes that box up tight.
Anonymous says
This is me and my husband at art museums. He walks past the art as quickly as possible and is done in half an hour. I want to actually look at the art. And he is the one with a degree in studio art!
Anon says
I have never met a 3 year old that appreciated scenery from a car. Maybe there is some unicorn kid out there who does, but I don’t think it’s a reasonable expectation of kids that age, sceeens or no screens. And it will make the trip much happier for everyone if the kid is not bored out of their mind.
Anonymous says
One of my kids has always been great in the car/plane and loves scenery. He gets unlimited during travel but doesn’t use it, though he (adorably) uses the iPad to take blurry pictures out the window.
I really do think it’s personality.
Anonymous says
My friend had a story about her family driving up (or down?) Mt Washington in a snowstorm (why, dont know) and completely fishtailing, almost going off the road, like legit terror in the minivan over the conditions. Her daughter had her headphones on and completely missed the whole thing – like didn’t even notice the distress of her entire family, let alone the car swerving all over the snow. The other kids gave her such a hard time about it for years.
Anon says
Okay, absolutely, for sure that’s a disappointment in the moment, but I’d give her and the kid some grace here, and caution against making a hard and fast rule about screens based on this one experience. I have four kids, and it’s highly, highly unlikely anyone would have really remembered seeing a bear at 3.5. Yes, they would have remembered the family story of the bear, but this isn’t the end of the world. A 3.5 year old is one of the toughest animals to travel with – too old for some of the easier comforting strategies you can employ with a 2 year old and old enough to have opinions, but still too young to really moderate their behavior, especially when they are off schedule. You are never super far away from a meltdown. I took a 2 and 3 year olds to Sweden and Finland. I let both have unlimited screen time during travel, and yeah, sure, they missed some awesome sights (so did my big kids), but I have no regrets. When they needed downtime or to zone out or we all just survive long drives, that was more important than the off chance we’d see something epic for 5 minutes during the drive. Even utterly gorgeous scenery becomes monotonous after a while.
Anon says
Hmm fine to limit screens, but I don’t find this reason compelling at all. My oldest two like to read in the car (and somehow don’t get sick) and they miss allll the scenery. They’re worse than my younger kid who watches daniel tiger. I can yell and scream and they won’t look up until a bear is halfway up a mountain, but they’re also very into their favorite series right now…
Also, 3.5 year olds will hear stories about trips, but the chances they remember that moment are very slim. And to actually notice the bear, also tricky. We’ve seen wildlife in colorado a fair amount and the trips all kind of bleed together and usually only half the kids (and adults!) actually spot the thing. I’d say you do you, but it’s a hard thing to draw too many takeaways from. The sister will probably remember the bear that was missed more than the bear that was spotted and she should reframe it as a funny story – kid will love that.
Anon says
Yeah, while books are generally better than TV, I don’t see much distinction between them on this point. I commented above about missing scenery (and no doubt wildlife) due to being engrossed in books as a kid. Some people here seem to think only screens render kids spellbound, but that was not my experience – books can be as much or more captivating at least for some people.
Also headphones aren’t necessary in the car (imo) and not using them can reduce the “kids in their own world” aspect, whether you’re talking about screens or just music/audiobooks.
Anon says
Also, I remember being around my nieces and nephews when I was pregnant (they were 3 and 4) at the time, and thinking of all the things I would do differently to avoid the tantrums or bad behavior or picky eating I would see. But, man, is it different when you are actually in real life, parenting a real human with a totally unique personality, and have to balance in-laws and travel schedules and nap time and weird food and strange places. I also remember seeing my brother his wife silently judging me and my active 3 year old boy, when they only had one very quiet, very calm 1 year old. Then she got older and they had a second active kid. Everyone is wired differently. Just give a ton of grace. And to the people out there who always read these and think “OMG I don’t limit screen time at all, and all these perfect parents do” — I didn’t limit screen time ever on travel and only set pretty lax boundaries at home, and I now have extremely healthy, extremely active kids who self-regulate screens beautifully at ages 11 and 13, so don’t be too hard on yourself.
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
Thank you for this post! I am pretty chill about screens after having a toddler at home from March-September 2020. My kids watch ~45 minutes of some type of “educational” show after dinner regularly on weeknights as I tidy up the kitchen (because doing it after they are in bed does not sound fun to me), and on weekends we’re a lot more lax.
Granted, part of the reason we are hiring a housekeeper/house manager is to get more help on weeknights so it’s not ALWAYS TV post-dinner, and so I can have a slower pace/get QT with my kids, but I don’t think we’ll go to 0 TV time during the week even with the help a few nights a week.
As Clementine posted once – for me, it’s definitely a tool, especially when solo parenting – it allows me to get stuff done.
Anon says
I don’t know that this is truly a con for screen time (kids sleep or ignore you when not on screens, too) but we don’t do screens in the car and it’s 100% possible and 100% worth it. I have three kids — 8, 6, 2 — and we’ve regularly traveled to visit family or on vacations 4+ hours away (like, a couple times a month). The kids are fine and they learn to occupy themselves or to handle being bored. We do have audio players, my oldest can read, and we’ll put in family podcasts. With screen creep everywhere this is a place where it’s been easy to set a boundary and our family knows no different. (I mean, it does take more effort and patience on the part of the parent…but worth it to me to have kids who are flexible and good car riders!)
I follow a gal on Instagram and her family of five went to Europe for a month, visiting multiple countries, and her kids watched TWO MOVIES TOTAL. So again…it can be done. Though that feels superhuman to me, too
Anonymous says
I’m totally OK with screens on planes, because there is absolutely no place to go if the kid starts screaming and there are 200 other people having to listen to it (granted I only have an autistic 4 year old, it might be different if I had well-behaved older kids). They also seem fine to me for long car trips, though we’ve managed to hold off for now, using lots of kid story podcasts and music. If I was going to a national park though, I might try to get everyone to look out the window. Though LOL both my husband and son are terrible at looking where I’m pointing in time to see the cool thing, so they might miss a bear crossing the road whether or not they had screens.
Anonymous says
Yeh we do screens on LONG car trips for the last hour, and we do them on planes for an hour. Otherwise we do not do screens in the car. Long car rides can be filled with audio stories, daydreaming and conversation. So, it’s possible.
Anon says
Hm, a local woman I know is absolutely “supermom” on her social stuff. Her kids are receiving trophies in all their sports, they don’t do screen time – they read instead!, and she regularly posts quotes allegedly from them talking about how much they love each other and how up to date they all are on important issues. Based on how she posts, you would think she parents like Super Nanny (Mary Poppins?) and her family is constantly harmonious and joyful. They are not. They fight, they argue, she is super harsh with her kids, and it is a generally pretty anxious existence. She readily told me that she posts family stuff frequently bc it is has been really good for her particular business. I unfollowed her after this experience, and take anyone who is parenting on social media with all the salt. For the mom who travels around Europe for a month and is putting it on Insta, she’s probably some kind of influencer or sponsored so its basically her job, right? I too could probably parent with no screen time on a long trip if I was doing it and getting paid — but I have a day job, and I want my vacation to be a vacation too — I’m a better parent overall if I get to rest too during my trip, which in my family happens with screen time. Not knocking your experience, and if it works for you, great — just a reminder that social media parents are not actual reality.
Anon says
Yeah, this – social media is not reality, and I would take anything you see there with a grain of salt. There’s a micro influencer in my kids’ school and the way she presents herself in person vs Insta is wildly different.
I also don’t really see being screenfree as something inherently worthy in and of itself. If screens are leading to bad behavior or something, then sure, that’s a reason to limit them, but as an adult I like downtime with books and screens too and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with some screen time on a trip. We are generally pretty light on screens while traveling (except on the days to/from the destination) but on a recent trip to Italy it rained non-stop and we were all kind of tired of being out in the rain all the time so we did did a couple of hours of quiet time at the hotel every after afternoon, often involving screens. Would it have been my first choice for how to spend our time? No but given the circumstances it was fine and we still made lots of great memories on the trip. (Also TV in foreign countries is often hilarious, so I think you’re missing out if you don’t at least turn it on once!)
Anon says
That’s a great point – screen time is not inherently bad. In my family, my kids play games together or solo if they need a break from each other (a natural consequence of a ton of time together). They also read and play card games together. I can’t think of a behavior impact for my daughter, and my son will kick himself off his iPad if he starts getting bored and antsy. To your story, I got stuck in London with my then 3 year old, and we ended up for like 2 full work days in the most boring airport hotel known to mankind. I had to get work done, so my 3 year old watched a LOT of awesome foreign cartoons. It wasn’t what either of us wanted to be doing in London, but it worked out, and is still a funny story.
Anon says
I just want to add to the influencers on IG vs. IRL train. I am friends of friends/family of two influencers – one beauty influencer who has a pretty well-known brand, and one momfluencer/fashion influencer.
Beauty influencer – Constantly posts about GIRL POWER and GRIND culture and features all of these amazing things she does! Reality: She invites herself to things and IRL constantly laments how she’s single and wishes she was married with kids (online she’s always like “People ask when I’m getting married! I tell them I’m a CEO not a WIFE!”).
Momfluencer – Loves coming across as “OMG I’m just a MOM”, super nice, and supportive of her community, and she always pairs her “finds” (of which she literally probably has ~100 pieces of clothing a week…) with her very expensive, designer bags and jewelry. IRL she’s…not warm, friendly, or nice at all, and is kind of a “mean girl” vibe. She uses her kids and husband as props/models all the time – I’m sure all of her “vacations” are write-offs because she works through ALL of them (as does her family).
Anon says
Paging HSAL and others who may need it. Here are a bunch of great resources about grieving loved ones.
https://www.bosplace.org/en/resource-library/results/?swpquery&swp_category_limiter=29&swp_audience_limiter=0
There is one specifically about “Helping Grieving Families through the Holidays” that I found especially helpful. We lost our teenage nephew to suicide earlier this year, and we are hosting Christmas week which was when we would all be together as a family, so this one will be especially tough for all, especially my SIL + husband.
Holding everyone who has a loved one in the light <3
OP says
*Holding everyone who has lost a loved one this year in the light.
Anon says
My second grader is saying that they hate school, that school sucks, etc. When I ask why the comment is often that it’s too much pressure, or boring, or that other kids make fun of them when they get spelling words wrong. Their teacher seems to think they’re doing pretty well. But I am spiraling a bit into wondering if there’s more to it, like adhd or something (the kid was slow to learn to read and has some scatterbrained air cadet tendencies, but no hyperactivity, so I’d never really worried about it before). I’ve been just letting it ride but it doesn’t seem to be getting better. What should I do?
Anonymous says
Hyperactivity is not required for an ADHD diagnosis, but it does make it easier to get your concerns taken seriously. The issue could be ADHD or it could just be that second grade is really quite boring or that the teacher doesn’t “click” with your child.
Anonymous says
It really could be that school sucks. Mostly sitting for 6hrs a day with 20+ other kids who are exactly your age is a completely artificial environment for a human 8 year old. And yeh most schools are putting too much emphasis on academics in the early elementary years. Also, sounds like your kid is bored.
Turtlemania says
Looking to start a good book thread for gift ideas for my kiddos. I have a 4.5 year old and 7 year old. The 7 year old is all about graphic novels all the time, so between DogMan and Investigators, we’re covered. But both because the 4.5 year old isn’t reading yet and because he’s exposed to all of his older sib’s books, I’m struggling a bit with a fun “gift-level” book for Christmas. Any ideas for books your 4-5 year olds have really enjoyed?
To pay it forward – we’ve LOVED Noodlephant, There Are No Bears In This Bakery, and many of the Bill Peet books (Droofus the Dragon, Huge Harold, etc). Last year I got them “Dragons Dragons and other beasts” which is a collection of mythical creature poems with Eric Carle paintings, and I’m surprised by how much they both like it. They are currently listening to the Neverending Story as their bedtime read, which they both enjoy but the younger doesn’t quite follow, and they enjoyed listening to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
Anonymous says
I also have a 4.5 year old who is on the cusp of reading. Currently, he loves, loves, loves all of the A to Z mystery books by Ron Roy. We read one chapter at a time. They remind me of encyclopedia brown. They’re definitely aimed at kids at little older than 4.5, but DH and I find the more interesting than a lot of the more “ picture books” aimed at 4.5 year olds. We have also loved the Bruce the Bear/Mother Bruce books by Ryan Higgins (probably because i identify with Bruce and am grumpy and want to be alone sometimes). These are more geared toward a 4.5 year old, but they’re funny. I’ve given them as gifts and people love them. The author has other books that we also really like. Julia Donaldson has a lot of books my son loves.
“Little people, big world” books about really anyone are always the ones that my little guy runs and grabs off the shelf at the library. Any of the Claude books (by Alex Smith). Our librarian also just recommend the book series Mercy Watson, which we have, but have not started yet (These are also chapter books). Any of the “Pig the Pug” books are geared younger, but are quite funny and we always go back and re-read those.
Blueridge29 says
The Peter and Ernesto books would be enjoyed by both kids. They are sloths who live in the Amazon and the books are adorable and funny.
Anon says
Are there viruses for which the main symptom is just fatigue? My kid spent a large chunk of yesterday sleeping. We thought she was just tired from the holiday weekend, but it became clear through the day that there was something more going on. Today she is better, but still has spent most of the day resting in bed with TV or books (she refused to nap though, unlike yesterday). She doesn’t seem “sick” in any other way: no fever, no runny nose or cough, no GI symptoms, eating relatively normally. Covid test was negative.
Also if she’s similar tomorrow, it’s fine to send her to school, right? My husband thinks we should let her have another day at home to rest, but I think she can go to school.
Anon says
Yes, my kid had this roughly a month ago. She slept for about 24 hours in the first go and was still too tired to make it through swim lessons a week later. It was a long recovery to get her energy back. Her only symptoms were a fever off and on in the first 48 hours and crippling exhaustion.
Anonymous says
Isn’t extreme fatigue the main symptom for mono? (Not saying that’s what your kid has, but the answer to your question is “yes”)
If she’s still exhausted, I’d give her another day to rest. Or at least let her sleep as much as she needs to, and take her to school late if she seems OK whenever she naturally wakes up.
Anon says
Mono also gave me a crazy sore throat.
Anon says
I did wonder about mono! Although I think she’s kind of young for it (only 5)? Fortunately she seems to be very much on the upswing now. She spent most of the day resting, but has been her normal energetic self since about 4 pm.
Anon says
Just a PSA that some summer camp registrations start soon! Our city’s is Friday. It caught me by surprise, but I guess it’s December 1 already.