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For an updated workplace staple, how about this elevated loafer?
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While an obvious choice for a suit, these would also look sharp on the weekends with wide-leg jeans.
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Sales of note for 9.10.24
(See all of the latest workwear sales at Corporette!)
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Kid/Family Sales
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Anon says
Is anyone buying the new Lily Nichols book about eating for fertility? I enjoyed her book on pregnancy nutrition, but I’m a little bit hesitant to buy a fertility focused book on case it tries to guilt me for things I should have been eating differently two years gone. We’re trying after miscarriage and it’s a bit fraught at times. Any recs?
Anonymous says
I wouldn’t mess with a fertility diet unless I had a specific condition that I knew was preventing me from conceiving and there was a diet proven to help ameliorate that condition. The only things I can think of off the top of my head that fall into that category are being severely underweight and maybe, just maybe, PCOS. Otherwise you are just buying into the whole guilt and shame game for no real benefit.
My moms’ group just read “No Cure for Being Human” by Kate Bowler and I found the discussion of the American self-help culture very interesting. The idea that we can conquer any obstacle on our own if we only work hard enough, and that if we can’t overcome an obstacle we are lazy failures, is terribly toxic. No one is under more pressure for self-improvement and optimization than moms.
anon says
+ a million. well said.
Anonymous says
That book sounds really interesting! Thanks for the rec.
Anon says
Undiagnosed conditions affect people at least as much as diagnosed ones do, so I don’t think this is actually rational.
Anonymous says
Most of the fertility nutrition stuff is pseudoscience with no value whether or not there is an undiagnosed condition.
Anon says
I haven’t read the book (I want to now!) but +1 million to your second paragraph. The idea that we can fix any obstacle if only we work hard enough is super toxic.
Anon says
Right, that would certainly be a toxic mindset to avoid, but I didn’t find that Nichols had that in her pregnancy book. Anyone read the fertility one who can comment on tone? It’s not available from my library yet and I’m hesitant to shell out more money.
Anonymous says
The fact that it exists is a problem
Anonymous says
Absolutely not. There is zero evidence for most of this. She isn’t a reproductive endocrinologist. She has no business making these claims.
Anon says
Yes. She cites plenty of things in her books, but the evidence is not strong on many of those citations. Nutrition is hard to study.
Anon says
OP I’m right there with you on the multiple miscarriage and trying to find something I can control. It’s so frustrating. I’ve been going down the “it starts with the egg” rabbit hole. My new doctor, who seems great, told me to take a breath and focus on the basics. Take a prenatal, exercise regularly (without overdoing it), eat a balanced diet with whole ingredients as much as possible. take it easy on the coffee and alcohol. I’m naturally anxious and obsessive so I needed a reminder to take a little distance from this whole “if something is wrong it’s because you’re doing it wrong” culture. I’ve also been sent for additional testing and she told me if the tests revealed anything specific then we can work on addressing that, but there’s no need to go in blind on diet and supplements.
Anonymous says
Yup. It Starts with the Egg is also really problematic
Anon says
Also: why isn’t any of this put on men? I went through years of infertility treatments to get pregnant (light at the end of the tunnel: I now have 2 healthy children), and also went down this rabbit hole. I ate “anti inflammatory”, cut out all alcohol and caffeine, took all the supplements, etc. Meanwhile, my husband didn’t do a single piece of research into any of this or change anything about his lifestyle (note: he did not have any major lifestyle concerns – is not overweight, doesn’t smoke, drinks very moderately, exercises 5-6 days per week).
Turns out, it was a genetic issue with my husband’s sperm and nothing to do with “the egg”. In fact, I have no diagnosable fertility issues. Ugh rant over.
(This is not a dig at my husband specifically, more just the overall burden placed on women in society vs men).
Anon says
Ugh yes it’s weird how we only focus on women when we’re only half the equation. Glad you had a good outcome!
Betsy says
This book does also focus on sperm quality.
Anonfor says
Here’s a delicate post-long weekend topic: tips and books on how to address race with preschoolers? My white four year old made an offensive comment about brown people (seemingly out of nowhere, we were driving). I tried talking through it with her a little but am sure I didn’t do the best job addressing it. She doesn’t live in a bubble and her school and friend groups are quite diverse. But we haven’t really talked much about race and she’s just starting to notice more about the differences between people. The books we have are the dumbed down kids history of civil rights types of books, which feel incomplete because they often seem to conclude that issues of inequality were all resolved.
Anon says
I would respond in the moment, which it sounds like you did, but not make a big deal out of it. You don’t want to give it too much oxygen.
When my daughter was almost 3, they tried to teach them about racial discrimination at preschool and she came home and said “we learned that white people and brown people had different drinking fountains, and white people got the better ones. It’s SO GOOD we’re white.” Uhh obviously not the right lesson, but this is really too young to expect them to get it. It’s already kindergarten age that you can really start talking about these concepts in depth, in my experience.
Anonymous says
With very young children I think the books that profile interesting and famous people of different races are more effective than the ones that focus on discrimination and civil rights. You can get kids looking up to heroes like Mae Jemison and Simone Biles before they are even old enough to understand the significance of skin color. I also like the books that just offer representation, like Ten Nine Eight.
Anon says
Yes I agree! They can definitely absorb seeing and hearing about people of all races, and it’s good to have books with diverse characters.
FVNC says
OMG this made me recall that my daughter (now 10) said something really similar around age 4, following a Black History / Civil Rights lesson — I think her phrase was, “we’re lucky to be white.”
It actually opened a conversation into privilege — dumbed down for a 4 yr old — but basically that people can still be treated differently because of skin color, and, when inequities favor white people, we should use that position to help be a voice for others. Not sure I’m articulating it well, and lord knows what she took away from it, but hopefully it helped frame her thinking.
Anon says
i’ve tried since day 1 to include books that represent lots of different people with lots of different skin tones. and my K daughter randomly said to DH that the dark girl in her class isn’t as nice as the others. i was so upset. her class is very very diverse, but is also very boy heavy (9 girls and 16 boys), and while she is one of 3 caucasian girls, there is only one girl who is black (many boys who are) and i’ve been in the classroom before and this particular girl has A LOT of trouble sitting still, is often bouncing off the walls, has trouble keeping her hands to herself…so i mean my daughter’s observation based on her class is kind of accurate. some books we have though some of them are more about representation than that directly: I Am Enough, We’re different, we’re the same, The World Needs More Purple People, Ada Twist, Scientist, Last Stop on Market Street
Anonymous says
I don’t think this is problematic except in a “yikes, I hope she doesn’t say that in front of other people” way. She is identifying the kid she’s talking about and then describing her behavior, accurately according to your observations. She’s not generalizing about an entire race. We are allowed not to like individual people who aren’t nice to us, regardless of their skin color.
Anon says
i know, but i wish she’d used something else to describe the girl (like her name) than this.
Anon says
I think it’s fine to tell her that when she’s talking about classmates she should use their names, but it’s not something I’d be “so upset” about.
Anon says
I’m confused as to why you were angry. Did she say black girls are not nice, this black girl isn’t nice, or girl x (who happens to be black) isn’t nice? You daughter doesn’t have to like someone just because of the color of their skin. It’s ok to recognize that some kids are nicer than others
Anon says
Yeah, in my experience 5 year olds often use skin color as a descriptor of people. Which is maybe sort of awkward and not PC, but it’s not like she’s saying all black people aren’t nice. She’s saying this girl isn’t nice, and is just identifying her by her skin color. I don’t think it’s a horrifying statement or something you need to be overly worried about, although I’d probably tell her that she should try to identify her classmates by name when talking about them.
Anon says
she said that the dark girls in her class arent as nice. she said it in a plural way, even though there is only one, but i’m probably overreacting
Anonymous says
You are 100% overreacting. Just tell her it’s better to use people’s names.
Anon. says
This. It needs to be okay for kids to recognize individuals with personalities that they would or would not be friends with. A girl in my class growing up (it was a small town – we were in the same class K-12) was mean and rude and not someone I wanted to spend time with. She also had cerebral palsy and used a wheelchair or walker. There was a lot of pressure from adults in my life that I absolutely must be friends with her. I don’t think it was particularly good for either of us to be what amounted to fake friends. But I was not allowed to dislike her personality without massive guilt trips from adults because she was disabled.
anonn says
I’ve had a similar experience with my 1st grader. I’ve worked on conversations at home but also made sure she knows not to say things like that to others.
Anonymous says
This is a hard issue! My kids teacher recommended pbs as a good resource “talking to young children about race.” We struggle because while we live in a diverse area, there is a pretty clear economic divide. My kid will say something about homeless people that sounds really racist to my ears, but I have to remember that she is just trying to describe and make sense of her world, and saying that black people are more likely to be homeless is a fact in our area. So it’s my job to not overreact and make her feel bad for just trying to understand, but also explain in an age appropriate way why that is and what can be done to change it.
anon says
I’m going to go against the grain here and say that we should explicitly talk to our white kids about race. Exposing them to diverse peer groups, much less just books, isn’t enough. There is a chapter in “Nurtureshock” by Po Bronson that addresses why. I don’t claim to have all the answers about what to say, but my 1 yo has already started commenting things like on “Mama’s mole is pink…Teacher’s mole is brown.” I’m using comments like that to start conversation about how race is a (sometimes) noticable thing in the world, but doesn’t mean anything good or bad.
Anonymous says
No one is saying that we shouldn’t talk about race, just that very young kids aren’t going to be developmentally able grasp the subtleties and that OP’s child probably wasn’t making any sort of racial generalization but just reacting to a classmate’s behavior.
anon says
Most of the comments posted before mine focused on exposing kids to diversity. Nurtureshock specifically discusses the inadequacy of that approach.
Anonymous says
So you really think a 4-year-old is going to understand critical race theory? Half the PhDs I know don’t even understand it.
Anon says
For toddlers and preschoolers, I think that’s about all you can do. Certainly it’s not sufficient for older kids, and I don’t think anyone was suggesting it was. But the typical year old is going to struggle to understand racial discrimination. It’s not that you can’t mention it, but it’s likely to go over the kid’s head.
anon says
Agree that we need to explicitly talk about race with our kids regularly. However you do sound like a POOPCUP for a 1 yr old mentioning mole comments, and that’s prob why you’re getting pushback.
octagon says
It’s developmentally normal to notice differences in people. We emphasized that some differences matter (like who is kind and who is mean) and some difference don’t (like skin color or body shape). Todd Parr books are fantastic for equalizing differences. We also leaned in to books that showed main characters of different colors – like Ada Twist Scientist, The Day You Begin, We are Water Protectors, Eyes that Kiss in the Corners, etc.
When kiddo was a little older (5-6), we branched out to books that put a little bit more of the racial injustices in history and talked about how things used to be, how things are now, and how much work is left to do. The “I Am” series is great for this as each one focuses on someone who overcame adversity, and many of the subjects overcame racial prejudice (John Lewis, Harriet Tubman, Sonia Sotomayor, etc.) There’s a PBS show that goes along with it too. The Little People, Big Dreams series is similar but not as good. We leaned on the librarian for good picture book recommendations as well – A Door Made for Me and New Shoes are two that I remember specifically.
Anonymous says
Late to this but so much of this is about living your values. You live in a diverse neighborhood–great! Are the only people of color that your child sees you interact with your nanny or your cleaning lady or a checkout clerk? Or do you have friends of color who are welcome in your home and send you Xmas cards? You can buy all the books, but what kids really learn from is the example that you set.
Anon says
on saturday i took my K aged daughter to a playdate at a new friend’s house. i feel like i’ve gotten to know the mom decently before this playdate, but since it was her first time there i wanted to stay with her. so i walk in and the parents have the office (i think it was that) on the tv in their family room. i’m given a brief house tour, the kids have a huge play room upstairs, but were having a bit of trouble finding their groove so kept coming downstairs and the dad kept suggesting that he put on netflix for them in the playroom. the kids ended up going back upstairs and watching something on disney jr. i spent most of the time chatting in the kitchen with the mom and dad (which was lovely, but i also thought was a bit strange bc my DH always has lots to do), but the tv stayed on in the background the whole time. is it just me, but at age 5 i’m not sending my kid to a playdate to watch tv? i didn’t make a big deal out of it, but makes me want to be the hostess in the future
Anon says
It’s pretty common. We don’t allow TV at our house on play dates (except in unique circumstances like all day play dates, and even then it’s very limited) but I’d say my kid has watched some TV at about half the play dates she’s gone at other people’s houses. It’s not something I worry too much about, and I don’t always want to host because 1) it’s more work and 2) my kid needs to get practice being a good guest. But if you’re worried about it, you can do the bulk of the hosting.
Cb says
We sometimes do TV if we have a kid for more than 4 hours, because at that point they need a break. But if it’s a short playdate and I have to hang out, I’d rather skip the TV and small talk. TV is how I read my own book, and get things done.
Anon says
Yep, that’s about our threshold too, but it’s rare we have a play date lasting more than 4 hours. Usually only on snow days or teacher work days when the kid is here for the entire school day or longer. And then I feel no guilt about it, because the kids get screens at school too (I know that varies, but our elementary school uses them liberally).
OP says
this playdate was only like 1.25 hours. i also thought it was strange the parents had the TV on in the background the whole time. if it was 4+ hours i most certainly would not care at all if they watched a bit of tv
Cb says
Yeah, that’s so weird. Unless they really wanted to socialise with you? Are they desperate for friends?
We’ve had friends over for movie night where we got to drink wine, eat pizza, and chat while the kids watched Totoro, but that was a specific purpose.
Anon says
I feel like putting on the TV in the public spaces makes it seem like you *don’t* want to socialize with the other parents though!
Anon says
their backs were to the tv half the time, so i dont think they were watching. it was just strange to me as we always turn it off before someone comes over
Anonymous says
Some people just like it as background noise.
Anonymous says
Background noise is super rude if you are socializing! Music on quietly in the background is one thing. TV is another thing entirely.
Anonymous says
+1. I think it’s really odd to have the TV on during the day, and to waste playdate time watching TV, but it’s quite common and the only way around it is to host yourself all the time. In my observation kids don’t really watch TV in groups anyway–they only pay attention for about five minutes before they start wriggling around.
Anonymous says
I have noticed lots of variety among other parents on this issue! I have the same reaction as you, and we try to avoid the houses that turn on the tv for the kids (my kids are 5 and 7). My view is we can watch tv at home, the playdate is to interact with your friends.
Mary Moo Cow says
We also don’t turn on the tv during playdates but I get flack about it from my 8 year old about her bff: “we get to watch tv at her house” whine. My 6 year old’s friends are a mixed bag where some turn on the tv or gaming system during a playdate and others do not. Usually, I am happy to host so I know my kids are tired out by in-person play. I keep a loose mental track of how many times they play at friend’s house with a screen and offer to host if I feel like the balance is tipping or if my kid has already had their screen time for that day (for an impromptu playdate.)
Anon says
We didn’t but if things were going downhill, I can see how one would. The comment about “I also thought was a bit strange bc my DH always has lots to do” is super weird to me. If we’re hosting someone, I usually ask DH to join me and be friendly. And he works full time, parents four kids, and is starting a business outside of his full time job. He doesn’t sleep much. But I’d ask him to come chat with a mom I’m getting to know at our house. I wouldn’t judge there. I think it’s important, especially as they get older, for DH to have met kids friend’s parents as well as me.
Anonymous says
Yeah I also wanted to unpack that about the husband- is there a problem with men, you know, relaxing and socializing on the weekends?! If a parent stays at our house during a play date, we don’t always both socialize with that parent but often do because it’s fun! And it’s polite! Now I’m gonna worry other parents are judging because we both sat and had a cup of tea with kid’s friend’s parent!
Like others here I’ve noticed a wide variety in screens at play dates. We are in a circle that, like this board, leans lighter on screens but even so many families have something on a lot of the time, a game or just random show or ?. We just go with the flow at other people’s houses (and we are quite adamantly low screens at home).
Anon says
That stood out to me too, but a lot of people are weird about men. When my kid was in preschool, she had a friend who came to our house once and wasn’t allowed to come back because my husband was present and interacted with the kids a bit and the other mom was very upset I didn’t “warn” her that my husband would be present. Mind you, I was home the whole time and generally within earshot. They just thought my husband should be… in hiding, I guess?
Anonymous says
That’s really odd. We live in a super conservative area with a ton of SAHMs and sports bro dads and it’s still pretty standard for both parents to be puttering around the house and interacting with the kids during play dates. If a parent is that concerned about a man’s being around they probably shouldn’t allow play dates at all.
Anon says
Yeah it was odd and I assume they have something personal in their past that makes them extra wary of their child being around men they don’t know. But like you said just avoiding play dates in general is probably the better solution then.
Anon says
i’m with you. my kid can watch tv at home. i would understand if it is a work day or something and the other parent is doing me a favor and hosting my kid, but for a playdate that is less than 2 hours long on a Saturday, that seems totally unnecessary.
Anonymous says
I’m in the no TV on play date camp unless it’s a long one. Or we’ve specifically invited family friends over on a weekend to say “let’s eat together and then we’ll have wine/chat and they can watch a movie”. I don’t constantly have tv on at home but one of my friends always has one on for “background noise”. I’m frankly annoyed if TV is on for playdates/parties because one of my kids will just stare at it and not play (we limit his screen time, he’s otherwise a really lovely kid he just turns into a zombie with TV).
Anon says
My 6 year old has a good friend and classmate whose mom has made several comments this year suggesting my kid is a bad influence who is leading her perfect golden child astray. The kids are both good students and generally well-behaved, but occasionally lose a point in the teacher’s behavioral management system for being off task together. The teacher seems not at all concerned about this and has been very positive about our kid in parent-teacher conferences, so I’m not concerned. But the other mom is very concerned and blames my kid 100%.
It all recently came to a head because she didn’t allow her son to attend my daughter’s birthday party and sent me a rude email basically saying my daughter is a bad influence and they have to distance themselves. My kid is sad, and I’m sad on her behalf and also kind of offended! If you read the email without context you’d think my kid offered her kid dr*gs, not giggled with him during rest time.
I know that the solution is to lean into other friendships, of which my kid has plenty, and I know that this mom isn’t going to tightly control her son’s social life forever (and in fact I can already see this parenting strategy backfiring because kid is FURIOUS at his mom and acting out more) but I’m sad and just needed to vent.
Anonymous says
How does she know that her own child isn’t the instigator?
Anon says
She said he doesn’t get lose points with any other kids, just my daughter. But the same is true of my daughter. So my guess is probably neither is the “instigator,” it’s just how they are together. They’re also next to each other at rest time. The teacher could move them if it was super disruptive (and has moved other kids, according to my daughter), and since she hasn’t I feel like that’s further evidence she doesn’t see it as a big deal.
Cb says
Oh no! Your poor kid and her poor friend! That’s such a weird outsize reaction to mild mischief. Like I don’t love my son’s bestie as we get a lot of eyerolling, attitude, likes to tell people “I could punch you in the face” (I told him if I ever heard this again, I’d walk him straight home). But I think it’s better if my son comes to his own conclusion.
Spirograph says
That mom sounds awful, and I feel bad for her son. And sad for your daughter! I would focus on telling her she’s done nothing wrong, and she can still be a good friend to the boy at school. Sometime adults forget what it’s like to be a kid and sometimes different families just have different rules and expectations. She can’t control any of that, all she can do is keep being awesome and kind to everyone.
I would also probably not be able to resist responding to that email, but say something like, “Thanks for your response. Susie missed Billy at her birthday party. I’ve heard so much from Susie and [teacher] about how much fun Susie and Billy have learning together at school, and I’m sorry to hear you don’t view their friendship positively, as I do.” If she sends anything back that’s further critical or accusatory of your daughter, though, don’t engage.
anon says
I would just reply and say, thanks for your note. Good luck with everything and hope life is perfect from here on out. <3
AwayEmily says
Sigh, I’m sorry. My 7yo has a friend with a mom like this, too. She has several times made passive-aggressive comments about how her son learned something “bad” from my daughter. She also won’t let her son ride the bus because she’s worried about “bad influences” on the bus, and she characterized another child as a “bad influence” because he talked to her son about how cool fancy sneakers are (“those aren’t the kind of values we have in our house”). At some point she’s going to realize that she can’t keep her kid in a bubble, and what’s important is having friends who are kind and supportive, not friends who are always perfect angels. The two are not the same thing.
Anonymous says
These are the parents who eventually end up homeschooling so they can control every single thing their children are exposed to.
Ifiknew says
How often is reasonable for my 6 year old to play with our next door neighbor girl who is the same age? I’d say once or twice a week for an hour or two. Too much, too little? it’s difficult because she plays great with my 4 year old son but once she has a playmate the same age, then nothing I offer him makes him happy other than wanting to also be with them and they are good about including him but also don’t want him around all the time. The neighbors also just come over and knock (rather than mom text) and my daughter gets upset if I say no.
I always prayed for neighbors my kids could play with but of course, this hasn’t been stress free either. let me know how to make this easier..
Anonymous says
Limiting playtime with a same-age friend just because your younger child feels excluded seems really unfair to your daughter.
Anon says
My 6 year old plays with her neighborhood bestie pretty much every day. They’re both only children though. But I don’t think it’s super fair to make her stay home just to prevent her sibling from being bored.
Cb says
Neighbourhood kid jealousy. My son plays with the grandkids next door (8 and 12 to his 6) but it feels time limited and they’ll only play “little kid stuff” if they are really bored. I think let them play, and maybe ask your daughter to include him half the time?
Lydia says
it seems weird not to let your daughter play with a friend she likes who is convenient just in order to keep your son happy… what about your daughter’s happiness? also, it’s important to learn that not everything in life is equal or fair (for your son to learn this, I mean). On a problem solving note, could you encourage the girls to have more playdates at the other one’s house, especially if they don’t want to involve the little brother?
Anon says
+1
Anonymous says
Limiting your daughter’s playtime with her friend for her brothers sake is gross
Anonymous says
And would you limit a 6-year-old boy’s playdates because his 4-year-old sister was jealous? Somehow I think not.
OP says
I absolutely would limit for him as well and do. I’m surprised that people seem to be having playmates more than 2 to 3x week on this board. most people don’t even have weekly playmates at 4 and 6 in my community.
Anon says
I don’t think most people organize play dates that require the parents to drive the kids more than once per week (I definitely don’t!) but with neighbor kids who can walk to each others’ houses more frequent play time is pretty normal.
Mary Moo Cow says
Some things I would like to know are: is this happening on the weekdays or weekends; are you working from home and want them both to be entertained, so that’s an issue; do you not love this friend’s attitude/influence/how your child behaves when she leaves so you’d like to limit the time; is it always at your house so you’re feeling resentment; is this afterschool when she needs to be doing school work; is there something else going on?
I feel you; I have an 8 and 6 year old and they play beautifully together most of the time, and with 8 year old’s friends most of the time, but as they get older, they don’t want 6 year old around as much and then she’s crying, whining, clinging, and I’m exasperated. When others have asked is it fair to limit playtime, well, fair to whom? Maybe not fair to big sister but fair to little brother because then he gets his playtime, or not fair to big sister but fair to you because you don’t have to deal with a cranky kid if your kids are playing nicely together. Unfortunately, in my experience, the benefit of having neighborhood playmates comes with its share of stress. I don’t have a rule, but, instead, take each week as it comes and try to balance: if Big Sister’s friend has been over on Saturday and excluded Little Sister, but I have the bandwidth to deal with a clingy kid on Sunday, then she can come over again on Sunday. If I don’t, then, she doesn’t come over on Sunday and we have a family outing.
Anonymous says
I would argue that the problem in this scenario is the younger child’s clinginess. They need to be taught to entertain themself.
Signed,
Older sibling whose opportunities were limited to appease a whiny younger sibling who grew up into a self-centered adult
Anon says
Yeah, this is a great way to build sibling resentment and conflict.
Ifiknew says
this is a really helpful comment, thank you for the response. it’s a lot of the things you’ve asked as questions. it might just be this season.
Anon says
Way too little. I would have no problem with playing daily for hours and in fact I would be happy about it. Agree with the other posts that your daughter is not an emotional support animal for your son.
Anonymous says
I think you’re creating a non-problem and unfairly limiting your oldest kid. I only limit my 6 year old’s interactions with the neighbors when he needs a break or when the adults tell me their kids/they need a break. So he spends A LOT of time with the neighbor kids: I estimate 10-15 hours per week, outside of school. Do my younger kids feel left out? Sure. But someday they will be six and they can roam the neighborhood with their friends too.
Spirograph says
I would absolutely not put arbitrary limits on this. Neighbor friends are the best.
Is she knocking to invite herself to your house, or to ask if your daughter can go to her house? Frankly, I love not needing to be an intermediary for my kids’ social life, so this wouldn’t bother me at all. But you can gently redirect to your preferred location. “She can’t come over right now, but you’re welcome to stay and play here if it’s OK with your parents!” My daughter is super close to our next door neighbor, and they often don’t mind if little bro tags along. Not every time, but enough that he feels like part of the gang. If they start playing with dolls or something that’s not interesting to him, he wanders away and finds something else (and doesn’t whine about it, because it was his idea to leave)
OP says
just want to clarify that between getting out of school at 330 and bedtime at 730, there’s not a ton of time on weekdays and we usually make time atleast once or twice to play during week and one weekend day so by no means am I saying she can never play but I do think it’s important to find that balance between family time and friend time rather than playing daily. I’m also tired after working and don’t always want to host another kid. my son is great ag playing by himself but he’s 4 and he’s understandably sad if the girls don’t want to include him so he requires I do something extra to appease him. again, I’m already doing this multiple times a week but I’m sure my daughter would love to play 7x week and it’s difficult dynamic. good things to think about though and I appreciate everyone’s perspective.
Anon says
Are you ending work by 3:30? The 3:30-dinner time range is the sweet spot for neighborhood play for younger kids in our neighborhood. I don’t really see it as infringing on family time because my husband and I are trying to wrap up work and get dinner on the table, so it wouldn’t be quality family time in any event. Unless you’re able to stop working very early, it seems like having neighbors over for your kids to play with would make your life easier, not harder.
NYCer says
If you’re tired of hosting, maybe you could encourage the girls to go to the friend’s house more often?
Anonymous says
I would have a problem with kids running in and out of my house constantly just because I am an introvert and can’t deal with chaos and also stress out about keeping my home company-ready, so I might set some limits on days and times just so I would be able to count on quiet time. I would not, however, set a limit of playing X times per week for the sake of “family time” or to keep little brother from complaining. Insistence on “family time,” whatever form that takes, tends to come from very controlling parents who are trying to limit their children’s independence, mostly their daughters’ independence. “No, Daughter can’t play sports because we all have to go to Son’s baseball games as a family. It’s our Family Time.” “No, she can’t go to summer camp because we need to have Family Time over the summer.” Etc. etc.
Anon says
Anyone else with kids who wake up screaming and unhappy? Why? When do they grow out of it? My three year old has been like this since birth. 2 out of 3 mornings wakes up hating the world and screaming for a good 40 minutes. He’s like this for naps too, no matter how long or short they are. FWIW he’s a terrible sleeper with regular night terrors etc.
anon says
My kid is a terror when he first wakes up when he’s constipated. Once we get him pooping again, it’s like he’s a different kid the next morning.
Anonymous says
I think it’s just constitutional. I wake up tired and miserable on a daily basis and would definitely scream about it if I were 3 years old. I can’t get out of bed until I’ve been awake for at least half an hour and had a cup of coffee. Thank goodness for a husband who is a morning person and brings me that coffee.
I’d try bringing a cup of milk when you wake him up.
Anon says
My 4 year old has now mostly stopped screaming when he wakes up in the morning. He’s still grumpy sometimes but having a morning routine helps.
Spirograph says
I don’t know, my 9 year old is an absolute terror when she first wakes up at least half the time. I just try to give her breakfast as quickly as possible and stay out of her way until she is ready to act like a human. Typical morning:
Me: [daughter] it’s time to wake up.
Daughter: *growl*
Me: OK, I put your bathrobe on your bed, please come downstairs for breakfast
Daughter: *gnashes teeth*
(5-10 minutes later, daughter stomps into the dining room, possibly yells at her brothers or slams a door along the way, sits down and glares at the world)
Me: What would you like for breakfast?
Daughter: FOOD!
Me: OK, what kind of food? we have [3 things you like]
Daughter: I don’t want ANY OF THAT!
Me: I didn’t think so, I made you a toaster waffle [which was one of the choices, for the record]. After you eat that, I can make something else for you if you like.
Daughter: Fiiiiine *eyeroll* *gnash teeth* *huff* *aggressively stab food with fork*
(5-10 minutes of eating, sometimes with some bickering with brothers)
Daughter: Good morning, mommy! May I please have another toaster waffle?
OP says
You nailed it! This is how it is! Appreciate the solidarity. I guess I will continue to brace myself for another few years.
Spirograph says
Hahaha I wish I had something more reassuring to share. I feel like I’ve tried every possible response to “fix” this behavior and nothing works, so I just treat her as I would a potentially-dangerous wild animal: calm voice, keep your distance, don’t let anyone goad her (looking at you, brothers), leave extra time and try to distract with food so you can get where you need to go, safely.
Anonymous says
My older one is like that. Ages 2-3 or maybe 2-4 we delivered him a sippy cup of milk before he got out of bed and it helped a lot. Overall this child is greatly affected mood-wise both by hunger/low blood sugar and fatigue so we just try to address those both as much as possible. He’s still grumpy in the morning but at 9 there is somewhat less screaming.
SC says
My son was like this when he was little, maybe ages 3-5. We also woke him up with a cup of milk before he got out of bed, and it helped.
But for us, it only happened in the mornings after a long sleep. And we didn’t have the same sleep issues or night terrors.
Anonymous says
I have 3 y/o twins and one of them is like this. He has never slept well, still wakes up crying at night sometimes. He has asthma, ear tubes and is sick often, but rarely wakes up in a good mood even when he’s feeling 100%. For a long time I thought it was physiologic, but it seems like this is just his personality. Ironically, once he’s awake, he’s quite pleasant and by then his twin is usually getting into mischief.
Anonymous says
My kids have always been grouchy waking in the morning after naps too. Post nap was worse but anytime after waking was always unpleasant. They’re now 6 and 4 and I got them sunrise alarms. I said they can have 5 minutes of tv in the morning if they get themselves up and get themselves dressed without help. That independence and reward seems to work and not their morning grumpies are done by the time they come out.
So that’s a ways out but you will get there… one day. :)
anonamommy says
I just need to vent. My daughter (9) has a friend who can be really nice but also can be extremely whiny and moody. We’ve spent a lot of time with the other family and I realized that their pattern is as follows:
– Kid asks for something
– Parent says no
– Kid asks again
– Parent says no
– Kid whines and stomps feet
– Parent says no
– Kid whines loudly and starts to shriek and throw a tantrum
– Parent says “fine, whatever” and gives them whatever they are asking for
I had seen it happen once or twice last year but didn’t connect the pieces. But it happens ALL THE TIME, with this girl and her two younger sisters. Not only is it hard to be around, I realized my kid started to see a “no” as an opening bid, which is not the way our family operates. Whew.
SC says
I’d be annoyed by that too, particularly if my kid were picking up the habit.
The other day, my son (8) was trying to whine, stomp, yell, and stage a sit-in to get out of going somewhere he didn’t want to go. I told him he wasn’t going to get his way by throwing a tantrum. He stopped, looked right at me, and said, “Well, how DO I get my way?”
So, I guess my point is, it’s normal for kids to try different tactics to get what they want, especially when they’ve seen it work. Honestly, it’s true for adults too. You just have to stick to your family values and teach what’s going to work with you.
P.S. I had to break eye contact to keep from laughing. And then I told my kid sometimes we just don’t get what we want, and this was one of those times. But when he asks us for something calmly and nicely, we try to say “yes” when we can or adjust things to make them better for him. He sighed and got dressed, which was a win.
Anon says
yea, thats where the parent really should be holding the boundary, though i will admit that i’m not perfect at it. there are days/times/periods of life when i’ve really needed to pick/choose my battles. one of my kids is VERY whiny, granted she is 5.5 and not 9, but i am sure sometimes people see her interact with me and think that she is an annoying kid…granted she behaves totally differently when i’m not around
Anonymous says
Sometimes I don’t hold boundaries as firmly if others are present so I don’t have the kid throw a full blown tantrum. Best parenting? No? But I’d say I hold the line 90% of the time. So I’d remind myself that you’re seeing a snippet of this family, and your child probably has some annoying habits that their kid is picking up too :) The only thing you can do is hold your line or stop spending time with them.
Anon says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/19/alabama-supreme-court-embryos-children-ivf/
And so it begins.
As a mother of two IVF babies, with more embryos in storage (in a “safe” Northeastern state), this boils my blood to no end.
Anonymous says
I saw that this morning… IANAL, but based on the snippet of the decision that was quoted, I felt like the judge was essentially saying that, based on AL’s law that life begins at fertilization, the court had no way to define “child” any other way. Kind of inviting legislation to fix the situation. I hope? The implications for fertility treatment are chilling.
Anonymous says
This is not on the NYT home page at all. WTF?
Anon says
there was a long discussion on the main board
Anonymous says
An acquaintance is in Japan right now with her preschool and elementary age kids and from her photos it looks absolutely amazing and has got me dreaming of taking my early elementary age kids (currently K & 2nd) there in the next few years. Anyone been with kids and want to share highlights?