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Anon says
How often are folks offering desserts after dinner? We are having nearly nightly meltdowns after dinner about wanting dessert from our 5 year old. We don’t use desserts as rewards, try to be neutral about it (“sometimes we have desserts and sometimes we don’t, it’s just on the menu tonight.”). I hate to be too rigid about it, but I almost think we need a schedule (dessert Tuesday and Thursday during the week, and then whatever goes on the weekends). Does anyone do that? Does it work OK?
Our daughter is starting K in the fall, and she’s had a lot of friends leave her preschool program to do something else in the summer. We are having a lot of outbursts generally, which we know is connected with all this change and the anticipation of starting K. Relatedly, how has the transition to K gone for folks? When should we expect her to settle into a groove and be back to her normal self?
anon says
Dessert like cake or cookies or something? Honestly, never. We have fruit at the end of dinner. I do think it might be confusing to a young child to have dessert sometimes but not always- she never knows if she’s going to get it or not. A schedule probably would help.
Anon says
This summer our 3yo almost always asks for a popsicle after dinner. They are the outshine ones so moderately healthy at least.
Anonymous says
Really only on Saturdays or Sunday’s. We also offer it with dinner, simply because otherwise my child (just turned four) would take closer to 1.5- 2 hours hours to eat. We also rarely actually have desserts in the house… we will go out for ice cream or pick up treats at our local bakery.
GCA says
1. We have dessert after dinner most nights unless there’s no time, but we ask that the kids are done eating their dinner and a piece of fruit before they start in on dessert. It’s not a reward for eating specific foods, just the way we do stuff (sequentially). With a 5yo I think it’s about control and predictability.
2. And that transition-to-K energy is real! It’s a big transition and can take a couple of months for kids to process. So much is new for them.
Anonymous says
Every night, we usually give them choices (still working through halloween candy!) or sometimes just decide what it is. My husband and I both like eating dessert, we bake a lot and often have treats or homemade ice cream in the house, and I didn’t want it to be a forbidden fruit they would fixate on. TBH dessert is the default but if we’re struggling with behavior issues we sometimes make it a privilege that is revoked- that happens really rarely but is very effective when we do it.
I think our method has worked pretty well- they almost always like dessert (don’t always finish it) but sometimes after eating it they’ll go back to their dinner. Because they know to expect it it’s not really a big deal.
Anonymous says
When we have dessert, it’s usually a mid-afternoon treat/snack. After dinner I’m too tired to deal with it.
HSAL says
Yeah, this is more our style. While on summer break we’ll have ice cream or other treats with the afternoon snack. I don’t like hyping everyone up with sugar right before bed unless it’s a special occasion (birthday, etc).
NYCer says
+1. We rarely have dessert after dinner, but definitely have a trader joes mini ice cream cone or a popsicle as an afternoon “snack” with some regularity.
Anonymous says
This. We do sweets either mid-morning (pastry + fruit) or afternoon treat. Mine are affected by anything with chocolate so we can’t do that at night. My kids get treats a lot, but I enjoy sweets and they are crazy active kids and neither are overweight (and neither am I). We don’t do much candy, VERY limited food coloring because it makes them both crazy. So it’s more pastries, something we bake from scratch, etc…Sometimes ice cream or popsicles, but not as much because if we have popsicles then they try to eat them all day.
AwayEmily says
I think kids can get a real scarcity mindset around sweets and our approach has been to avoid that as much as possible. Both my kids have gone through stages where they are super into sweets and during those periods we just provide it, within reason. Sometimes with dinner, sometimes after school, sometimes in their lunch. Basically, as soon as my kid starts asking for it, whether it’s at 8am or 5pm, I tell him when he can expect it (right now, with dinner, after dinner, in your lunch today, etc). Which is the same approach we take with all foods, really — if they ask for goldfish, or a banana, or whatever.
Anon says
As someone who dealt with the scarcity mindset for many years, I think it’s really worth trying to avoid. It won’t happen for all kids, but it can for many.
Clementine says
Yeah, we do similar. My kid likes dessert every night (as does my husband). It’s just… not a big deal? And I’m legitimately shocked that my kid has grown up to be somebody who picks fresh mango as his ‘treat’ in the grocery store over cookies. His sister likes fruit snacks a little too much, but we don’t buy them and she’s chilled out about sugar.
Anon says
+1 to this approach. We usually have cookies in the house or chocolate, but they frequently go uneaten, as they are always available and thus are boring. My one son is getting into baking, so we will always enjoy whatever he bakes — but there’s usually more of a focus on the fact that he made it for the family, not that it’s a dessert.
At Halloween, I was at a trunk or treat and was just letting my 3 year old go for it, and this other parent was legit appalled that I wasn’t monitoring her intake. I don’t know – I knew she’d end up only eating a few pieces, getting bored, and moving on. And, yes, I STILL have that dang bag in the cabinet because that is exactly what she did. I think it helps that we’ve never limited sweets? I sometimes end up “limiting” by just not buying stuff if I feel like the kids are eating unhealthy, but I’ve never policed their intake of what is at our house.
My husband grew up in a “dessert as a treat” mentality house, and he readily admits that it gave him terrible eating habits as an adult. He was skeptical at first (I also avoided requiring the kids to eat certain foods, which he also wasn’t so sure about), but our kids are healthy eaters with age appropriate palates. I wouldn’t say the approach made our kids into tiny foodies, but I will say that we’ve never fought about eating and our family dinners are fun/low key/not a constant negotiation.
Anonymous says
Every day. I like dessert every day!
Anon says
We do a snack/dessert every night. My kids are very routine oriented and don’t deal well with change.
Anonymous says
You need a very simple schedule that kids can understand. We often include a homemade cookie in packed lunches, so we don’t do dessert after dinner on weeknights. Dessert after dinner is for weekends only.
Anon says
I wouldn’t pick two random weekdays, that would be confusing and she wouldn’t be able to get into a rhythm if it changed every day. We do desserts Fri-Sun after dinner. If we have treats in the house like cookies I’ve baked or donuts I’ve gotten at the store, I’ll serve as an afternoon snack with a big glass of milk. And if it’s a hot day we’ll have popsicles outside while we play. So we definitely don’t limit sweets, but I don’t really like the habit/expectation of dessert every single night. (I myself crave sugar every night and wish I didn’t!)
More Sleep Would Be Nice says
+1 – I told DS #1 desserts are definitely a thing for Fri-Sun, and then he can pick one night of the week. Usually my kids eat dinner pretty well; if I don’t see enough eaten, no need for dessert.
Dessert is never anything too crazy – a cookie, a small scoop or two of ice cream, so I’m fine with this. Also – by the weekend/end of week I, as an adult, need more treats. I think college hardwired me for this, thanks to going out on Thursdays…
Obviously if there was a lot of sugar that day for whatever reason (e.g. birthday party!), then we don’t usually do dessert, and DS #1 is fine.
Food should bring joy.
Anonymous says
Kiddo (7) is allowed a treat after dinner every night if all fruits and vegetables are eaten (or generally eats well without complaining). But it isn’t a big production. It might be a handful of gummy bears or a sucker or a small store bought cookie. We’re not talking giant desserts here. Those are for special occasions. Otherwise they’re just not in the house.
Anon says
We almost never offer a dessert with meals. Maybe 1-2 times per week we bake something (winter) or go out and get ice cream (summer). More when traveling.
My 5 year old is in the same boat! I did not anticipate that most of the kids would leave to do camp or return to their parents’ home countries. I don’t think that happened last year with the rising kindergarteners. Fortunately she still has one good friend there, but it’s been hard.
anon says
prob 3 nights a week
Anonymous says
We have dessert every night after dinner. Usually a scoop of ice cream or popsicle; if we have cookies or brownies around, they eat that. We don’t make a big deal of it, and don’t use it as a reward.
Anonymous says
We always have real dessert after dinner on Fridays (we are Jewish and have a nicer Shabbat dinner). Otherwise, as other people mention, we are more likely to have a treat as an afternoon snack. We do have dessert periodically at other times if we have something available- it’s not unusual that my husband (who teaches cooking) will bring something home that his students made, etc.
Anonymous says
I always have something sweet available, but it’s only an official part of dinner if we’ve specifically made or bought something meant to be dessert for that dinner (cake, etc.). If there’s no specific dessert planned, then it’s available if kiddo (2.5 yo) asks for it. She’s has been doing homemade popsicles outside most nights after dinner (Yummy Toddler Food’s easy fruit popsicles, so pretty much just fruit). I also have a stash of Trader Joe’s chocolate-covered banana and strawberry slices if she’s asking for chocolate. On weekends, we’ll usually walk to the local ice cream shop after dinner one night. If dessert happens, it’s always served after dinner – including dessert with the main meal doesn’t work for her. I’d say she asks for dessert after dinner maybe 40-50% of the time? Other days she’s just done and wants to get back to playing.
Anon says
Pretty much every night.
Anony says
After dinner, mostly just if we go out somewhere that has good desserts or for special events like birthdays or holidays. We almost always have desserts around, but like a few other people, we’re more likely to have them at other times of day (croissants or scones for breakfast, afternoon ice cream, cookies right after baking them in the afternoon, etc.). I wouldn’t say no if my son asked, but he doesn’t seem to really think of it then since it’s not our usual routine.
Um, also I eat a little chocolate or ice cream after he goes to bed, but that’s my reading and treat time hours later! No one else is invited.
Boston Legal Eagle says
Every night after dinner for us. Usually some fruit snacks/gummies. Fridays are special dessert nights so they get brownies or ice cream or similar.
One kid is more sweets driven than the other.
Anon says
We allow it every night if they’ve eaten their dinner, but keep it small. On weekends they can have a lollipop (they’d do that every night but my husband is paranoid about it’s effect on their teeth). The usual is a single square of chocolate, a mini clif bar (chocolate flavored), an Outshine popsicle, or a fruit chewy from Trader Joe’s. If it’s available, they’ll choose banana bread over all of that – I only make it when our bananas have gotten old. Occasionally they can have ice cream, but that is just a couple spoonfuls (unless grandma comes over – then they get a whole cone cuz grandma).
“Gentle” parenting says
I’m a little scared to ask this, but is anyone else struggling with “gentle parenting”? I bought into this completely and have spent hours reading Dr Becky, BLF, Dan Siegel etc., and while there are aspects of it that I like, it is not working with my 4.5 year old who is in a really tough phase. He’s been hitting, kicking, etc., and none of the scripts seem to change his behavior. He’s a good kid but I’m worn out trying to figure out what emotions are underneath the behaviors all the time.
I think there are really good things about this movement (trying to avoid yelling) and I would of course never hit my kid. But if I’m being honest, it’s really really hard and I’m starting to wonder if there’s a better way. Are time-outs really all that bad? Is this whole movement just the latest parenting fad anyway?
Anyone else struggling with this?
Anonymous says
“Gentle parenting” is another one-size-fits all mom-shaming movement that insists that if children aren’t perfectly behaved and perfectly happy it’s the mom’s fault. Take what works, ignore the rest, and combine with info from other sources. I find “How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” much more useful.
Anonymous says
This. It’s great as a tool if it works! That’s all it is.
Anon2 says
How to Talk… *is* gentle parenting. As GP has become trendy and mainstream, people have interpreted/pushed it more into “permissive parenting” territory, but that is wrong. It is authoritative, with strong leadership and appropriate boundaries.
I prefer the term “respectful” parenting, which is the same thing. This approach, at its core, requires respecting the child as a person with dignity, and aiming for authentic connection above all else (aka no hitting, screaming, punishing to make a kid feel bad, using separation as a threat, etc). All the rest (the scripts, etc) are details that you can take or leave.
I highly recommend this podcast interview with Tina Payne Bryson:
“Raising Good Humans with Dr. Aliza – s2 ep 51 What’s the Deal with ‘Gentle Parenting’?”
Anonymous says
How to Talk has some overlap, but without the exhausting and burdensome parts.
Anon2 says
There is nothing in that book that conflicts with gentle parenting. I think many people are on board with the philosophy but don’t like the way Dr Becky and others apply it
Spirograph says
This. Nothing works all the time for all kids, even if parents were able to implement consistently and perfectly (which no one can, because we’re all human). How to Talk So Kids Will Listen is far and away the most useful general audience parenting book I’ve read. Full disclosure, I gave up on parenting books long before the Gentle Parenting fad took off.
Anonymous says
Some kids need time-outs not as punishment but to calm down.
anon says
I agree! Time outs are a chance to calm down, start over, make amends, hug, and start fresh understanding what behaviors are appropriate.
I think parents put way to much pressure on themselves to act as therapists to their kids in the Janet Lansbury style of things. Letting kids vent emotions endlessly is not healing.
Anonymous says
This. My 6yo needed to go to her room last night to calm her body because she was playing too rough with her little brother and repeatedly couldn’t keep her hands to herself. I put on music for her and explained that she needed to calm down a bit. I do raise my voice at my kids if they’re doing something dangerous or hurting each other (mine enjoy rough play). I actually suffer intense guilt when I’m stern with my kids because my mom was a yeller and constantly annoyed at being a mother (and beat my older siblings). So I know I’m breaking the cycle by not hitting my kids and trying to be very respectful of them, while also maintaining boundaries.
My tip for hitting – I walk away and say “I don’t want to be hit”. This stops my almost 4yo
Anony says
I actually learned this from my 2-year old. I’m not anti-time-out but we just hadn’t used them yet – I didn’t think he was old enough to really understand. But then we read a book where someone has a time out, and now if he’s getting worked up or overwhelmed sometimes he will say “I need to take a time out by myself right now.” Okay, sometimes he also does this as a bedtime-delaying tactic, but I do really like that he sees it as a calm-down moment, which is not necessarily negative.
anon says
Good for some but not for my family. Permission granted to move along to other strategies.
Anon says
Anecdata, but I’ve noticed that my friends who practice it seem really exhausted and like they’re trying to convince themselves it’s working. Some of the ideas look appealing on paper but the reality seems to be really intensive in a way that affects the family negatively. I’m seeing things like really long bedtime routines, both parents losing sleep every single night for toddler wakeups, and giving in to demands due to exhaustion even when they want to gently hold a boundary.
anon says
Yes, agree that this stuff has a place, but is not the law.
I like the idea of consequential behavior/very clear firm boundaries. In our family we do not: hit, throw things at people, spit, etc… if you break these rules you get a “break” immediately which is essentially a time out to calm down. Usually, we take the break with the kid to help them regulate.
We try not to yell and sometimes we fail. Kids know if you break the rule you are removed from the situation.
Anon says
I’m a broken record, but natural and logical consequences, having firm boundaries, and taking a break to help regulate a child are exactly gentle parenting! I guess it gets under my skin that a parenting philosophy rooted in science and research has because so trendy and commercialized that people are missing the point. It is not supposed to be permissive, and the children don’t get to control the tenor of the family.
GCA says
This. I think what’s become interpreted and promoted as ‘gentle parenting’ is so far off from authoritative (high warmth, high expectations) parenting that child psychologists actually recommend. Actual gentle parenting is not blank-check permissive. Kids need a bit of structure, expectations and boundaries. See https://untigering.com/how-permissive-parenting-can-be-a-tool-of-oppression/ (I also like Untigering as a particularly culturally-relevant resource)
anon says
I think we’re saying the same thing, I should have been more clear – “this stuff” was referring to the Instagram of it all
Anon says
yes, this. i have two 5 year olds. most of the time if they are hitting or biting or trying to do those things, i can tell that they aren’t just sitting there with the wherewithal to think through their actions that if I do X, i will be punished with Y. their brains are in like fight or flight mode. But a break to calm down can be helpful. A lot of it is in tone and semantics. Instead of like “if you hit, you will go to timeout,” or yelling “you hit your sister, go straight to time out” it could be saying sternly “I cannot let you hit. You need to take a break.” I have noticed with my kids that when they are dis-regulated and I yell (as I am not some perfect person and do sometimes yell), it makes them more out of control
Gentle Parenting says
Time-outs are frowned upon by every “gentle parenting” expert I know of. The advice is to stop the hitting by holding their hand when they try and say we don’t hit. But my boundary-pushing child doesn’t accept that and I’ve got to find a way that I’m not trying to hold him down why he hits and kicks at me.
I’ve tried all of the “special one-on-one time” preventative maintenance things, and maybe it helps? I don’t know. But regardless, it’s left me feeling completely worn down, like I’m failing, and like it’s all my fault.
Anon2 says
Time outs as an unrelated punishment are frowned upon – aka if you don’t eat your vegetables, you’re going to your room! As a logical response to the situation, and the best way to keep everyone safe and prevent escalation, it’s okay. Maybe the ideal is that you sit with your kid while they calm down, but that isn’t always possible (the kid might continue to fight if you’re there, you have other kids to watch etc). You may think it’s semantics, but the key is intent, and about helping them through the situation rather than inflicting punishment to “teach them a lesson”.
For me, my kids continue to spiral in time out (and get destructive), and I vividly remember sitting in timeout as a kid ruminating on how much I hated my family…my parents think they “worked” but it was such a negative experience that I really try to limit the use with my own kids.
anon says
Why is it bad if kids resent their parents when they sit in timeout? Of course they are mad. That’s human. They are defensive, and that’s okay. The point isn’t too be liked all the time by your kids or to avoid confrontations with them. The point is to teach them that hitting or biting isn’t okay. And then to help them apologize and move on.
Anon says
+1 to Anon at 1:01. This perfectly encapsulates why I don’t like gentle parenting. It’s ok for a child to be mad at their parents. This is how they learn. It’s not going to inflict lifelong trauma.
I think a lot of people who swear by gentle parenting have pretty easy-going kids. Which is great for them. But for those of us who have spirited, strong-willed, boundary pushing kids, it’s not necessarily an ideal method. My kid is not going to stop bad behavior because we explain why it’s bad or stop her from doing it. It takes consequences to her that she actually cares about, so she independently comes to the conclusion that the “fun” of bad behavior isn’t worth it.
We are “gentle” in the sense that we never hit, rarely yell, apologize when we’ve overreacted to a situation or lost our cool, and generally try to treat our child with respect and give her age-appropriate bodily and emotional autonomy. But sometimes children who misbehave need to be punished.
Anon2 says
Because I’m telling you that it felt very bad for me, and has led to resentment and sibling rivalry into adulthood, which I don’t want to inflict on my kids? Maybe we disagree, but forging a strong, mutually respectful relationship is my main objective as a parent. I don’t want to purposefully harm that connection just to prove a point, because that is the foundation for long term love and obedience.
Obviously every kid is different, but for sensitive children that type of punishment can be very damaging. And no I do not let my kids get away with things or disregard boundaries, but sometimes in the heat of a moment isn’t the time to teach a lesson; I help my kids calm down and then we figure out how to repair the situation. This is for little kids, btw; as they reach tweenhood I imagine our tactics will change, though the core strategy remains.
Anon2 says
1:20, I have two very strong-willed, likely ND, kids, plus a toddler. None are docile in the slightest, and yet I am still committed to GP and actually think it is the best of the options for my kids. A child who is naturally combative needs extra patience and understanding. We don’t have immediate compliance, but I am seeing great fruits after years of intention (child-initiated apologies, improvement in self-control, collaborative problem solving).
They get absolutely glowing reports from teachers and are well behaved out and about in public, so they aren’t “out of control”. But they are a LOT at home.
Anon says
I don’t think anyone here is sending a child to timeout for not eating vegetables and that seems like a bit of a straw man. Sending a kid to timeout for hitting, biting or even saying mean things is very different. These behaviors are not respectful, so I’m not sure how you can forge a “mutually respectful” relationship when your kid is behaving disrespectfully. I want a mutually respectful relationship with my child too, but I also believe it’s my job as a parent to teach my child how to be respectful to other human beings, since kids are inherently self-centered.
Anon2 says
1:30 – clearly this is hitting a nerve because I’m all over this thread! I sincerely hope everyone finds a parenting approach that works for their family. In response to your question, I do not tolerate hitting or name calling, etc. But the choices aren’t “let yourself be abused” or “issue a time out”; there are other consequences, too. I will verbally correct, walk away, not engage further until they end the behavior, require that they make retribution in some way to the injured party, etc. Many of these are directly related to the offense and so they have more teaching value for the child.
Have I given time outs? For sure. But they are not my go-to, and I save them for times when we all need physical separation.
Anon says
Yes, and I’m telling you that the other corrections did not work for my very strong-willed child. Timeouts and punishments were the only things that got her to stop undesirable behaviors like hitting. What has “teaching value” to the child is extremely kid-dependent. For my child, the best way to teach her is for there to be a consequence that leads her to independently conclude the behavior isn’t worth it, because she is very strong-willed and doesn’t do things just to please us or other authority figures. I think many kids have more natural desire to please their parents and these other types of corrections may work fine for them.
Fwiw I was a HIGHLY sensitive child who was sometimes put in timeout or punished by losing a privilege I enjoyed. Was I furious at my parents at that moment? Yes. Do I feel like I have lasting trauma from it as an adult? Not at all. I had a pretty happy and privileged childhood, but this isn’t even in the top 50 things I wish my parents had done differently. So I take issue with the implication that a child will grow up to resent parents who do this.
anon says
It’s hard for me to imagine anyone viewing timeout as a lasting trauma or terrible memory that strains their relationship with their parents. Of course, the parent’s attitude and demeanor matter. You should not yell, be rough, criticize your child’s personality, or shame them in the process–if that’s what you equate with timeout, then I can see how it would be damaging. But if a parent is calm and matter of fact and moves through the process quickly, it can be beneficial for everyone because it breaks the cycle of bad behavior and gives your child a chance to start over.
Anon says
Yeah, everyone’s childhood experience is multi-faceted. I’m sure there is more going on her than just the use of timeouts.
Anon2 says
Ok, I don’t mean it was like a top 10 trauma in my life. But I distinctly remember feeling misunderstood, like my parents didn’t care about the backstory. Time out was used to correct a behavior regardless of the motivation. In my memory I went to our time out chair a lot, it was embarrassing, and I internalized that I was a bad and difficult kid. I am now very much a people-please.
I truly have a great relationship with my parents today, and my mom insists I was a good an easy kid! But that is not my internal monologue. So yes, it did leave me with some baggage and I still don’t feel like anyone cares to really understand me.
Anonymous says
Comments like this (baggage from timeouts when it is acknowledged that the parents were doing a pretty good job) make me worry. I think I am a pretty darn good parent. I love and support my kid, but once in a while I slip up and yell when she does something really stupid. Based on comments like this I am certain that when she goes to college her therapist (colleges all provide and encourage therapy these days) will convince her that she was abused. Parents are human and most of us are doing the best we can.
Some personality quirks are innate. They are your burden to deal with and not your parents’ fault. And your parenting doesn’t have as much power over your children’s future as you think. You could be the world’s most understanding parent and your kid could still be unhappy or have mental health issues.
Anon says
I have never met anyone in real life who thinks toddler time outs did lifelong damage. I’m sure there is more to this story.
Most people I know (including me) feel like their parents made mistakes and didn’t always handle everything perfectly, but were good people who were trying their best. I’m very close to my parents and credit them for giving me a great childhood even though there are many things I’m doing differently with my own kids.
I wouldn’t worry about this at all.
Anon2 says
This is my last comment, then I’m out, because it’s hard to get a point across online. (But people love to suggest therapy for everything around here, so I was trusting it was understood that the experiences in our lives sometimes hit us differently than expected.) These weren’t “toddler time outs” as you snarkily assert, it was the primary discipline strategy of my childhood. And it was aimed at modifying a behavior, and focusing on just an end result instead of what lead up to it and why – which is the opposite of GP. I am not exaggerating when I say that sitting in the timeout chair is a core memory.
But I don’t blame my parents! They did they best they could and are kind and loving. Time outs were the gold standard of good parenting for that era. But this approach was not the one I needed, and I’m extra cognizant of that now as a parent. Relatedly: I don’t remember them ever apologizing for anything, and I make sure to apologize to my kids when I make mistakes. That helps .
Anon says
Real Janet Lansbury-type gentle parenting is much better than influencer gentle parenting (aka permissive parenting) but it’s still not the right fit for every family. Gentle parenting doesn’t permit punishments and time-outs, for example. Kids can be selfish jerks. It’s developmentally normal and isn’t some indication that they’re going to be grow up to be sociopaths, but sometimes they can benefit from having something they care about (like screentime or dessert) taken away, even if it’s not a “natural consequence.” For my kid at least, losing privileges she cares about has had a much greater impact on curbing bad behavior than just letting her face natural consequences, which she usually doesn’t care about.
Anon says
Sorry if this posts twice, first attempt went to m0d
Real Janet Lansbury-type gentle parenting is much better than influencer gentle parenting (aka permissive parenting) but it’s still not the right fit for every family. Gentle parenting doesn’t permit punishments and time-outs, for example. Kids can be self i s h. It’s developmentally normal and isn’t some indication that they’re going to be grow up to be bad people, but sometimes they can benefit from having something they care about (like screentime or dessert) taken away, even if it’s not a “natural consequence.” For my kid at least, losing privileges she cares about has had a much greater impact on curbing bad behavior than just letting her face natural consequences, which she usually doesn’t care about.
Clementine says
I think the core concept is that your relationship with your child matters. Treating them as a human who is learning matters.
One thing that I had to sit with is that the goal of gentle or respectful parenting is not immediate compliance. I know kids who get spanked and are very obedient… but it’s because they are scared. (See shiny happy people, the Duggar doc.). It’s the long game.
But nothing is absolute!! Time outs work? Great. Direct, clear consequences? Sure. Our oldest earns digital time. But at my core, I try to respect the little human in front of me.
Anon says
I think this is SO well said. I focus on the relationship and child, and tailer from there.
And that’s such a good point about remembering that we don’t want adults who do exactly as they are told. For instance, my oldest is my most compliant child, and most fearful of letting me/people down. She was basically on a very solid path to becoming the poster child for people pleasing t– so I am SO careful because my lizard brain knows that when things go sideways, if I were to bark an order at her or yell at her, she will become immediately compliant because she doesn’t like it when people are upset. And while that is sometimes so lovely as a parent in a hard moment, I just try to imagine her as an adult, slaving away for some crappy boss who yells at her to work harder, then takes all the credit for her work.
Also, on the immediate compliance issue, I’ve had success giving my kids a heads up if they are going into a situation where things will non-negotiable. I usually remind them ahead of time that I always try to start with “yes,” but in certain situations, if the answer is “no” there is no room for discussion and I may not be able to answer why in that moment, but I will always explain later in private. If, for instance, we are traveling with other families, I will warn them of this ahead of time, or on a smaller scale, if they are responsible for a certain chore that they need to accomplish, I’ll give them a certain amount of heads up that the chore is coming and it’s non-negotiable (e.g., at the beginning of dinner if they are on dish duty or on a Thursday evening if we are devoting time on the weekends to a larger cleaning job). The more advance notice they have, the less they argue in the moment.
Anonymous says
Yes, mostly with my parent friends that practice it lol. We were on a vacation and one of their two year olds was going through someone else’s hotel room, and they were like, well sorry we talked to her and she just doesn’t want to leave! Ummmm what, time to pick her up and take her out, what are we doing here.
I try to respect my kid’s choices, say yes when I can, provide clear expectations, apologize when I mess up, but I’m also not going to endlessly discuss things with them. We tell them consequences for their behavior (try to go with natural consequences, like if you take too long doing this you will miss this other fun thing, but definitely sometimes it’s, you will go into time out) and then we enforce them if necessary, and that has worked pretty well.
Anon says
I think the endless discussion thing is a sticking point – it can be exhausting and pointless.
Haha says
Ohhh wow! that isn’t gentle parenting, that’s letting the kiddo do whatever they want! I shouldn’t laugh, but what on earth?! She doesn’t want to leave?
Anon says
the example that you give of your friend’s kid going through someone else’s hotel room and their response – that is not gentle parenting, that is an example of permissive parenting. the gentle parenting/authoritative approach is to tell the kid that it is not ok to go into someone else’s hotel room and if they won’t leave you then tell them you are going to help them with that by carrying them out of the room, even if they are kicking and screaming while you do so.
Anon says
Agreed. The most extreme version of (actual) gentle parenting would be giving the 2 year old a choice on HOW to leave “oops, this isn’t our room, this is X’s room. We can’t be in X’s room. Would you like to walk to our room room or have me carry you?” and then when the toddler says no, you scoop them up, carry them out, and acknowledge their anger/sadness.
Anonymous says
I see the influencer version of “gentle parenting” as not exactly permissive parenting, but persuasive parenting. As in you have to persuade your child to do what they ought to do. Which is kind of a ridiculous concept and often ineffective.
Authoritative parenting is more solid. These are the rules, I understand that you are a human with feelings, and you still have to follow the rules.
Anon says
I believe that there are times to give kids choices and agency and explain everything and there are times that they need to listen to me right now and “because I said so” is enough of an explanation. And I think that’s fine.
I think if one set of consequences for bad behavior isn’t working it’s totally fine to move on to a different approach. We do timeouts for hitting.
No two kids are the same, and frankly who your kid was last week is not necessarily who your kid is tiday. Totally fine to try a different approach.
I was late to yesterdays thread, but for the mom who felt guilty about snapping at her kids: if a kid is not behaving appropriately it’s fine to snap at them. Bad or annoying behavior will cause someone to snap at them eventually (friend, teacher, whomever); it’s okay for you to be that person. If youve expressed displeasure with their actions and they’re not stopping, then you’re allowed to snap. Kids can learn that even mom has feelings and that it’s not nice to purposely annoy her and if you do they’ll be consequences (mom getting frustrated)
Anon says
I’d recommend 1, 2, 3 Magic and see if that fits more.
anon says
With my very strong willed 5 year old, all I have to do now is say “ONE” really loudly and behavior ends 95% of the time. I honestly have no idea what I’d do if I got to three any more. Shockingly impactful
FWIW, I think I dislike gentile parenting because it seemed to go mainstream along with the MommyBlogger movement that I loathe oh so much.
OP, do what you gotta do. Time outs, 123 Magic, all of it.
Anon says
My biggest problem with Gentle Parenting experts like Lansbury (and many other parenting experts, to be fair) is that they act like their approach is one size fits all. I don’t see how any strategy or method will work for every kid, and every expert I’ve talked to in person agrees that parents are going to need to experiment and find what works for them (and it may be different for different kids if you have two or more).
Anon says
I’ll probably get some flack for it, but I’ll bite.
I see some value in these approaches based on my secondhand reading here and online….but I find this really culturally aimed towards middle/upper middle class white parents. I’m a WOC with immigrant parents and a lot of these approaches are overwrought for me. I’m not authoritarian or physically punishing with my kids the way my parents were, and certainly try to practice empathy (especially to my similarly-sensitive-to-me older kid) vs. brushing things under the rug.
Anonymous says
That’s an interesting point. I’m upper middle class and white but not WASP (I’m Jewish with family the mostly came to the US in the 20th century) and my grandparents were a loooooong way from gentle (my grandmother broke a wooden clothes hanger on my dad’s head and washed his mouth out with soap). To be clear, I would never physically abuse my kids, and like you said I try to empathize with feelings, but it’s kind of hard for me to take people seriously when they talk about timeouts as trauma because so many kids go though much worse (even short of physical abuse).
Anon says
This is also interesting because GP has its roots in the work of Maria Montessori and Emmi Pikler, who worked with poor, institutionalized and disabled kids and had near-miraculous results.
Anon says
I think you mean Magda Gerber? Montessori is not what Lansbury based her book on.
Anon says
Lansbury is technically RIE, and Magda Gerber studied under Pikler. But RIE and Montessori dovetail, and I consider them both under the umbrella of/foundational to GP.
Anon says
That’s interesting. I’ve never thought of Montessori as “gentle parenting” and I know from reading here and from real life friends that Montessori schools tend to be much stricter about discipline and have higher expectations for 3-4 year old behavior than many “regular” preschools. All the kids I know who were expelled from preschool attended Montessori. That doesn’t seem very gentle!
Anonymous says
The Montessori philosophy is very rigid and one-size-fits-all. If it doesn’t work for your kid, there must be something wrong with your kid and they get expelled.
Anon says
Firstly, Montessori is about more than school (it’s primarily a child-rearing philosophy for the home, honestly). It is about following the child and promoting age-appropriate independence. It is VERY focused on respect and the dignity of the whole person, and does not punish (it does enforce consequences). It is absolutely “gentle parenting.”
School is another topic, and many schools slap on the label without being true Montessori. It’s not one-size-fits all in that children should be able to choose their own work. And yeah, it is strict and calm but GP can be strict and calm! Strict means setting expectations and holding boundaries.
(I guess this is the crux of the issue – it’s hard to have a conversation about this when some people are going off of Instagram influencers and others are familiar with the centuries-old roots of a movement. Different perspectives.)
Anonymous says
I think timeouts are a problem when they are a default punishment for breaking basically any rule without also taking the time to speak to the kid at some point to make sure the rule is understood, fair, and achievable. It also needs to be combined with understanding why the rule was broken and helping the kid make different choices next time (as far as possible).
A calm down time out when emotions and energy are overflowing is very different to a time out because a kid drew on the walls or something like that.
Anon says
I’m Anon at 2:51 – and I find that most of my Jewish friends with middle-class upbringings have families with very similar dynamics as mine and many of my other BIPOC and/or immigrant friends (kind of like you mentioned). Difference is, their dynamics are often, not always, more matriarchal.
And absolutely — my (White) partner went through a lot of trauma as a kid — not to the of extent physical abuse, but more than a time-out — but having to call a parent to pay child support, spending a lot of time home alone in evenings/being lonely, playing the “grown up” between two sides of the family, etc. caused him his own stuff to work through.
Anonymous says
“Overwrought” is exactly how I think of it. Not everything needs to be discussed ad infinitum and turned into a huge drama. Too much discussion makes kids unsure of what the limits are so they will try to negotiate everything, and it turns small issues into bigger ones. These are the rules, if it makes sense to do so I will explain exactly once why they are the rules, and then you follow them. If you are an older child with a logical argument I will listen if there is time and make a decision, then my decision is final.
Boston Legal Eagle says
I listen to Lansbury and have read a lot about gentle parenting. I generally like the philosophy behind it in accepting (even big) emotions in kids and not trying to stifle them by belittling, hitting, etc. It’s much easier said than done though, especially for spirited kids!! One of the best things about having two kids is seeing how different they are and having to adapt parenting to the child.
So for my older, more intense and spirited kid, all the talking about emotions wasn’t doing much. He had big emotions and meltdowns, which involved hitting too. He needed to calm his body and we’d typically go to his room with him and just bear hug him without trying to talk things through. This lasted a while and we definitely made mistakes (we had a time out chair where he thrashed about), but did our best to accept the feelings but also not tolerate the behavior. He’s very outgoing and will be a great leader. Hard to parent, better for the world?
My younger kid is the poster child for Lansbury – he’s very self aware of his emotions and will say things like, “when you raised your voice, it hurted my feelings” or “that made me frustrated.” Less intense outbursts, minimal hitting that ended fairly young. For him, I worry that he’ll be a people pleaser!
Agree with Clementine though – don’t do what the duggars did and you’re probably fine!
Anonymous says
My problems with gentle parenting are not really about timeouts or lack thereof. My child is pretty sensitive and dramatic, and we realized a long time ago that the “naming the feeling” thing that is such a big part of gentle parenting just does not work for her. If she falls and gets a scratch, we do our best to reassure her that it’s no big deal and she’ll be fine. It might sound heartless and I’m sure people have walked by us saying to her “it’s not a big deal, you’ll be fine,” and judged us, but I think it’s better for her in the long run to move past minor hardships like this quickly and get back to doing something fun. Because some things in life really are not that big a deal! If we said “oh no, I know you fell off your bike and it must hurt you soooo much” she’d sob for literal hours, and I don’t think in the long run that would be emotionally healthy for her. Obviously there are judgment calls to be made and when there are real big feelings, we don’t invalidate them. But I tend to think gentle parenting can cause kids to fixate on bad things and anxieties, which can be really bad for kids like my kid (and me) who already have natural tendencies in that direction.
(My parents were gentle parents before gentle parenting was cool, and I think I could have used more tough love to grow a thicker skin, so that’s where I’m coming from. Although it appears to be a theme in this thread that many people are doing the opposite of what their parents did.)
Anonymous says
Exactly this. Kind of like how when a toddler falls down they look to the parents to guide their reaction. If you say “oopsie!” and set the kid on their feet they run off and are fine. If you say “oh, no!” and make a fuss they start to cry.
If a kid is really angry or frustrated I don’t think it hurts to say “I understand you are mad. It is still time to go.” But a protracted discussion will only fan the flames.
Anon says
I am finding this comment really helpful – you put words to a dynamic I was observing too.
Anon says
I like gentle parenting for the scripts I tell myself (“I have a good kid who is having a hard time”) and the idea that I have to regulate myself and my emotions before I can parent my kid. But, I don’t have much success with using the gentle parenting scripts for my kid.
I’ve also found that after I made the transition from one kid to two, I just don’t have the same bandwidth as I did when I just had one kid. Sometimes things just need to get done, we need to get out the door, etc. I like the tricks like using a timer, trying not to get into a battle of wills of stupid things, and remembering that I am the “strong confident leader.” And I try to do the talk about feelings and what is driving the behavior after the fact rather than in the moment.
We do do timeouts, for hitting or anything more “serious,” or when my kid is just out of control. I think of gentle parenting as just one of the tools in my toolbox.
Anonymous says
Yesss the bandwidth with two kids. I was an amazing mother to one child. I’m pretty mediocre with two haha
Anon says
Related to the gentle parenting thread above, what are your favorite books/resources for kind but authoritative parenting? I like some of the elements of kindness/listening from gentle parenting, but when it comes down to it, both my husband and I want more structure and parent-led approaches.
Anon2 says
I don’t know what you’ve tried, but my top three, at least for young kids, have been Janet Lansbury’s podcast, No Drama Discipline (and others by those authors), and How to Talk so Kids Will Listen (and other by those authors).
All of these are respectful, authoritative and parent-led (which is the core of the GP movement that has gotten convoluted in the current culture).
Depending on the personalities of your kids, I’ve also like Mary Van Geffen on Instagram and the book Raising Your Spirited Child
anon says
Parenting with Love and Logic
Anon says
read this: https://www.scarymommy.com/gentle-parenting-not-the-same-as-permissive-parenting
Anon says
quote “In other words, gentle parenting is authoritative parenting.”
Anonymous says
Maybe this is gentle parenting, but I have liked the book Positive Discipline by Jane Nelsen. It is more academic than other books posters have mentioned where. My child goes to a full day Montessori pre school school, and the school offers a positive disciple class to parents, so we took that and the reading for each session was from this book. It discusses a lot of natural and logical consequences. It works well for our family. We also have a seemingly naturally pretty well behaved child.
anon says
Most parenting books are a mixed bag for me — I pick and choose approaches that work and feel natural to me, but I’ve never found a book where I agree with every little thing.
Jo Frost’s Toddler Rules is helpful in understanding how to deal with problem behavior and raise your child well and act as a coach in helping them learn knew skills. The book How to Talk So Little Kids Will Listen also had some more creating positive parenting type ideas, trying to get your kids to do things by making it a game, etc, out of the box thinking that actually can work if you have the energy for it.
I really did not agree with Janet Lansbury. I listened to a few podcasts and thought she was super interesting. Then I read her book, and realized this was way overhyped.
Anony says
I like 1, 2, 3 Magic. I have kind of a hybrid approach that combines that with gentle parenting techniques and it seems to work pretty well.
Anon says
Ha, I just recommended that one above too!
H says
I like 1, 2, 3 Magic. I have kind of a hybrid approach that combines that with gentle parenting techniques and it seems to work pretty well.
AwayEmily says
Yeah, I think you just have to skim a lot and take what resonates with your particular family and discard what doesn’t. I love some parts of Janet Lansbury and find others ridiculous. Some people here really like Hunt, Gather, Parent and I learned some things from that (and thought some parts were totally irrelevant). I can’t stand Dr. Becky. Basically I get a lot of parenting books from the library, skim them, and whatever I find interesting I chat with my husband about and we decide together if it’s something we want to work into our approach (and at this point, with kids who are a bit older, I’m mostly reading for problem-solving purposes rather than for general advice).
I’ve found in general that consistency and staying calm are the two most important aspects of discipline and it’s much easier to do that if you kind of game out what you will do in different situations ahead of time. How will you handle it when your kid throws their plate on the floor, hits their sister, refuses to apologize, wakes up in the middle of the night, says they hate you, etc. There’s not necessarily a Single Right Answer for any of these, but figuring out a game plan in advance (and together with your partner) makes responding calmly and consistently a lot easier. And books help me to give a sense of the universe of potential responses so we can find the ones that resonate with us.
Potty training says
Gearing up for potty training with my almost 2.5 year old daughter this weekend. I’m planning on loosely following the Big Little Feelings plan (gentle parenting seems to be the hot topic today!), which is basically 3 days set aside, 1 day naked. Any advice, positive experiences, etc.?
An.On. says
Whoever posted yesterday about when your kids start sleeping through the night, curse you! I was reading the thread and feeling so smug about my two year old’s consistent nights and of course last night I had to get up TWICE for the first time in months and months. That’ll teach me to get too big for my parenting britches.
Anon says
does anyone else have moody kids? sometimes in the mornings my kids are in a great mood and it is a nice way to start the day, other times it feels like they are whining/complaining 24/7. is this just kids or is there something wrong with mine?
Anonymous says
Yes of course? Children are people. Do you wake up in a great mood everyday?
Anonymous says
I think this. Sometimes mine just wake up on the wrong side of the bed. We try to approach it with “Child X is having a rough day”. Obviously, it’s not a reason for them to treat their sibling like crap so we still maintain expectations for polite behavior.
Anon says
at least in my house it’s not just the kids who are moody, LOL! I find sometimes the grumps can be low blood sugar and get better as soon as they eat something.
AwayEmily says
Totally. Maybe we can use this thread to discuss how to do a morning vibe shift when this happens. Here are a few ideas that sometimes work for us (though none is foolproof):
– a “hard reset” — I propose that everyone goes back and gets into bed and then we reset the day (the kids especially like doing this after they are already dressed/ready because they think it’s hilarious)
– moving everyone to another location. not sure why this works but often if I move everyone to the front porch, or the baby’s room upstairs, then somehow it changes the dynamic
– letting the extra cranky kid listen to an audiobook alone in their room for ten minutes til they feel a bit better
– me saying “can you PLEASE JUST LEAVE EACH OTHER ALONE???” (this rarely works but is probably my modal response, because omg it’s 6:30am please stop waving a banana in your brother’s face to torture him; you know he hates bananas)
anon says
Usually if my kids are moody it’s because of a reason.
My 7 yo has been moody lately because she’s upset by all of the schedule changes with the end of the school year. She finds it really hard and unsettling that everything is changing.
My 9 yo is moody with too little sleep or too little downtime.
Both get moody when they’re feeling burnt out (as do we all).
Snotty says
I hate to post medical things here but we’re kind of desperate. I’ll start with we’ve already been to the doctor (last Fri) and they just sort of chalked it up to allergies.
5 YO DD has significant mucus/snot in the form of postnasal drip. She sounds a little congested but no constantly runny nose (just a wipe here and there but not full on cold by any means). The actual problem though is that she’s choking on it, and frequently. Like gagging a LOT and sometimes throwing up. We’ve taught her to clear her throat, take short sips of water in the moment to help clear it, but none is a real relief. There’s not really a cough, maybe a little in the form of trying to clear this from her throat.
Doctor wasn’t concerned about pneumonia – lungs, ears, etc were clear. She didn’t xray lungs but didn’t think it was necessary. No asthma history, no wheezing. No fevers. She does have seasonal allergies. She’s been tested for covid every other day for 2+ weeks (she did have an exposure, which prompted the testing but this issue predates exposure then we kept going convinced this was covid related, but evidently not).
We’ve done local honey, nasal spray, allergy medicine, humidifier, avoiding dairy/anything to thicken mucus. Any other home remedies?? Or something else I should be pushing at the pedi? She’s struggling so badly and it’s been at least a month, and getting worse. She’s not choking this stuff 24/7, but it is multiple times a day. When she coughs once though it becomes a chain reaction and she’ll gag (or throw up) multiple times until the “episode” passes. What could possibly be generating this much snot and not come with a cough or full blown cold?!
Anon says
It sounds like seasonal allergies to me based on the timing. What allergy medicines have you tried? Are there other ones you can try? Can the ped give you a prescription med that’s stronger than the OTC things?
OP says
Claritin and Zyrtec + Flonase. Nasal spray is a little harder to get her to do for us, so it’s not daily but a few times per week. Never occurred there could be stronger Rx for seasonal allergies but something I’ll ask.
Anonymous says
Have you tried Flonase? Really helped my 3 yo. It took a day to really kick in.
Anonymous says
Are you somewhere with wildfire smoke and/or high pollen counts? I’m in the upper Midwest, and kiddo and I have had a lot of congestion for the past two or so weeks. Kid was actually sent home from daycare last week because of the constant gagging, but things improved when we finally got some rain.
Anon says
+1 we are outside NYC and my sensitive child has been like this the past few weeks. It’s possible your daughter has a very sensitive gag reflex.
The only other thing that comes to mind is a sinus infection. Did she have a cold at one point? When I took my son to the ENT for a tubes evaluation she said he really shouldn’t be so snotty for an extended period and prescribed antibiotics (which did clear him up, though wrecked his GI so pick your poison). He did have snot in his nose, though
OP says
Interesting. We are in Boston and had it pretty bad by most standards for about 18 hours but didn’t get anywhere near as bad as NYC did that very next day. Nevertheless, could def be a contributing factor.
anon says
How much water is she drinking? Mucus is thicker and harder to clear if you’re dehydrated.
Anonymous says
Mucinex and Claritin. Sounds like post nasal drip and that’s how I treat mine
allergy anon says
One of my kids and I both have had this for months a couple times a year for multiple years due to allergies. Which allergy meds is she taking? We do Zyrtec + Singulair + Flonase daily and have also done some months adding Azelastine into the mix. You really do have to do them daily for weeks/months/always for allergies, and ask about increasing doses if there’s no change after a full week or two of all the meds. We also did a round of oral steroids at some point, and mix in some albuterol at times. We’ve also been doing allergy shots for a couple years now. And have all the allergy mattress and pillow covers, hospital grade air filters in the house, air purifiers in bedrooms and main room, etc.
OOO says
Are there any good books or articles on the generational differences in parenting styles? Millennial parents are leaning towards gentle parenting, Gen X parents used time outs more, Baby Boomer parents promoted individuality, etc?
Anon says
Not quite the same but Hunt Gather Parent talks about some cultural differences, and touches on how modern parenting in the US is more demanding than in the past.